=== cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville
=== Andre_Gondim is now known as Andre_Gondim-afk
=== fabrice_sp_ is now known as fabrice_sp
dholbachgood morning :)06:59
persiaLet's get started then.06:59
nixternalgood morning to you06:59
persiaFirst, let's find out who's here.07:00
fabrice_spGood morning07:00
rgreeningmorning nixternal, persia07:00
fabrice_spbut I only can attend the first 15 minutes :-/07:00
persiaToadstool, geser soren awen jpds nhandler ?07:00
persiafabrice_sp, In that case, you go first (if we can finish in 15 minutes)07:00
MootBotMeeting started at 02:01. The chair is dholbach.07:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]07:01
a|wenhi everyone07:01
dholbach[TOPIC] Fabrice Coutadeur07:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Fabrice Coutadeur07:01
dholbachgood morning fabrice_sp - how are you doing?07:01
fabrice_spgood morning dholbach ! I'm doing fine, thanks :-)07:01
fabrice_spand good morning everyone07:01
dholbachfabrice_sp: in your application you say that the first contact with the Ubuntu community is not as smooth as it could be - do you have an example for that?07:02
fabrice_spdholbach, I first came to the community to have dvdstyler integrated, and made the upload to REVU07:03
fabrice_spand after that, I've been lost :-)07:03
dholbachbecause it took too long to get it reviewed?07:03
fabrice_spI didn't expect the package to take so long to be accepted07:03
fabrice_spnow, I understand why (and my packaging is a lot better :-)07:03
dholbachDo you think the documentation or "the path to contributing" was clear enough?07:04
persiaDo you have any suggestions that could either improve the experience, or better set expecations?07:04
fabrice_spalso, I'm quite a hy guy, and never used irc before07:04
fabrice_spweel, the previous documentation spoke about uploading new packages to revu as the first step07:04
fabrice_spand oviously, it shouldn't be the first step07:05
* persia suspects a dropped 's'07:05
fabrice_spyes, sorry07:05
* soren is still waking up :)07:05
fabrice_spmy wireless keyboard drop some letters sometime07:05
sorenThat's ok. My brain tends to do the same. Or insert new ones at random. It's very confusing.07:06
dholbachfabrice_sp: So you'd say that we could do a better job at guiding new contributors towards learning packaging and probably work on some existing packages beforehand?07:06
fabrice_spdholbach, yes. I also already helped in a non official way some people interested in packaging stuff07:07
fabrice_spin private chatrooms, but for the moment, none is still around07:07
fabrice_spI think that even with few experience, you can still help a lot07:08
fabrice_speven in REVU :-)07:08
persiafabrice_sp, You seem to use your PPA for backporting.  Have you considered involvement with the backporters?07:08
nixternalthat is a very nice chunk of uploaded packages you have there fabrice_sp. One question, what happened with im-sdk and are you in the process of getting that fixed and reuploaded?07:08
fabrice_sppersia, yes. I also receive some request directly to my mailbox, that I try to upload07:09
fabrice_spnixternal, it's failing because of debug packages07:09
fabrice_spI opened another bug report for that, and assigned it to pkg-create-dbgsym package07:10
fabrice_spin the meantime, I'm still trying to get it fixed (playing with debug compilation options)07:10
nixternalfabrice_sp: groovy, great job on your packaging contributions and some really good testimonials as well07:11
dholbachwow... good work07:11
fabrice_spthanks :-) I've been a lot more active since I applied to u-c-d07:11
dholbachfabrice_sp: I noticed :)07:11
dholbachsoren, geser, nixternal, persia: any more questions?07:11
fabrice_spworking also on python2.6 transition now07:11
nixternala lot more active than I have been, though dholbach has me working my fingers to the bone on other projects :p07:12
nixternaldholbach: I am good07:12
fabrice_spdholbach, :-) You sponsored a lot of my uploads :-)07:12
sorenNope, I'm good.07:12
geserno question from me07:12
nixternalpersia must have gone down for more sushi07:13
persiafabrice_sp, You say you plan to work on packages "better if linked to Video edition".  Could you share what that is?07:13
persiaI've not heard of it before.07:13
persiaNo, I'm just a slow typist.07:13
fabrice_spI mean, my first area of interest is video edition07:13
fabrice_spso, that's why I have in my ppa dvbcut, dvdstyler, openmovieeditor, ...07:14
sorenAre they not in the official archives at all or do you just have fresher versions in your ppa?07:14
fabrice_spbut I've touching a lot of different packages lately, so it's really my first area of interest, but not the only one :-)07:14
nixternaland he lives in one of my favorite places in the world too, madrid..so now I know where I can crash next time I am out there :p07:14
fabrice_spsoren, fresher versions, most of the time07:14
sorenfabrice_sp: Ok, cool.07:15
persiaI'm more curious about the nomenclature "video edition", but it's not important to my decision.07:15
fabrice_spfor Openmovieeditor, it's more ocmplicated as the new version requires a lot of new packages07:15
dholbachpersia: "video editing" maybe07:15
fabrice_spdholbach, persia: yes07:15
dholbachpersia: good to go?07:15
fabrice_spI mean converting old family videos to DVD's07:15
persiadholbach, Yes.07:16
nixternalhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabriceCoutadeur  <- I wish I was that organized07:16
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Fabrice Coutadeur become Contributing Developer?07:16
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Fabrice Coutadeur become Contributing Developer?.07:16
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot07:16
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting07:16
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 107:16
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 207:16
MootBot+1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 307:16
MootBot+1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 407:16
nixternalpsst, geser, your turn07:16
MootBot+1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 507:16
dholbachhow do I end the vote again?07:16
rgreeningwonder if I can go next?07:17
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 507:17
dholbachcongratulations fabrice_sp07:17
nixternalrgreening: you are going last, we want it to be like 5am when it is your turn :p07:17
nixternalcongratulations and welcome fabrice_sp!!!07:17
fabrice_spthanks to all! :-)07:17
rgreeningIt is 5 am07:17
nixternalno, thank you07:17
dholbach[TOPIC] Roderick B. Greening07:17
nixternalrgreening: is it?07:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Roderick B. Greening07:17
rgreeningmorning all :)07:17
* a|wen waves at rgreening07:18
cody-somervilleIs this the MC meeting?07:18
dholbachcody-somerville: yes07:18
persiacody-somerville, Yes.07:18
rgreeningo/ a|wen07:18
cody-somervilleCan I do an impromptu application for core-dev as I don't imagine I'll generally be aware at this hour again anytime soon?07:18
nixternaldamn, rgreening you messaged me too to put an indorsement on your wiki page...I apologize for totally forgetting07:18
persiargreening, You say you need to read more documentation.  Could you share why you think you've read enough to be MOTU?07:18
dholbachrgreening: almost every sponsor mentions the danger of over-committing - what do you think about that?07:19
rgreeningnixternal: thats ok, you can skip that and just + 1 me now07:19
persiacody-somerville, No.  Applications need a week discussion period before discussion.  There's another meeting at 17UTC, which might work better for you?07:19
* Hobbsee_ cheers for rgreening 07:19
cody-somervillepersia, Okay, great.07:19
dholbachcody-somerville: could you please follow  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers ?07:19
nixternalMC: I can definitely endorse rgreening, even if he did keep me awake at UDS from snoring...totally awesome work he has done in Kubuntu and I believe some of it has gone upstream or is going upstream...07:19
rgreeningpersia: one can NEVER read too much. I can attest that to the 100's of tech books i have07:19
dholbachcody-somerville: it'll make it a bit easier for us to prepare, etc.07:19
cody-somervilledholbach, I was just being facetious anyhow. No problem :)07:19
rgreeningdholbach: thats all in ref to UDS. I was quite the eager beaver. and that was also many months back07:20
nixternalhahaha, that is funny, rgreening what did I say to you at UDS? :)07:20
dholbachrgreening: ah, so you're not the eager beaver anymore? :)07:20
rgreeningdholbach: I now have a realistic view of things. this allows me to accept work that can be done07:21
rgreeningand not take on too much.07:21
rgreeningright nixternal07:21
dholbachrgreening: how's the work on kpackagekit coming on?07:21
rgreeninggood dholbach. I have been learning a lot on it.07:22
nixternaltotally awesome dholbach :)  I finally don't have that annoying other k package thingy, I already forgot its name07:22
rgreeningI have a couple of patches already in07:22
nixternaladept, that was it07:22
dholbachrgreening: I know that glatzor did some work around handling debconf stuff and questions asked by the package installation process - does that work in kpackagekit already?07:23
rgreeningand dholbachworking on other patches now. also the new app-install spec was initiated by me with upstream07:23
rgreeningdholbach: that would be a back-end. should be immediately available to kpackagekit. I can certainly check with glatzor to verify07:23
dholbachrgreening: well, some parts of it should be part of the front-end too, no? :)07:24
rgreeningdholbach: yes. correct.07:24
rgreeningnot sure if it was integrated yet into 0.4.07:25
rgreeningbut it should be easy if it's not yet there.07:25
rgreeningthe code for kpackagekit it really clean07:25
persiargreening, Two of your endorsers comment that they'd like to see more varied work, and you mention work with the server team as a future plan.  What steps have you taken in that direction so far?07:26
rgreeningI have discussed woth ScottK on how to get more involved with the team. I have also jumped in the IRC channel for server to see what needs doing.07:26
rgreeningI have some ideas for UDS and next server release07:27
rgreeningto do with security packaging. thats an area I am really familiar with07:27
persiaAnd you also mention that you'd like to work more closely with the GNOME team.  How is that progressing?07:27
rgreeningspecifically firewalls.07:27
rgreeningwell, glatzor and I have been colaborating with packagekit ideas (for Gnome/KDE).07:28
rgreeningI have also worked with some packagers of Gnome apps to help reduce unnecessary deps in packages.07:29
rgreeningdid I miss anyones questions?07:30
dholbachsoren, persia, nixternal, geser: any more questions?07:31
rgreeningI have also worked with fixing python 2.6 transition in some packages for ScottK07:31
nixternalnone here07:31
persiaall set07:31
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Roderick Greening join the MOTU team?07:32
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Roderick Greening join the MOTU team?.07:32
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot07:32
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting07:32
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 107:33
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 207:33
MootBot+1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 307:33
MootBot+1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 407:33
sorenHeh. Whoops07:33
MootBot+1 received from soren. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 507:33
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 507:33
dholbachcongratulations rgreening07:33
dholbachand good night :-)07:33
nixternalcongrats and welcome rgreening !!! \o/07:33
a|wencongrats rgreening!07:34
nixternaland another kubuntu suckah bites the dust07:34
rgreeninggl a|wen07:34
dholbach[TOPIC] Jérémie Corbier07:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Jérémie Corbier07:34
dholbachhey Toadstool - how are you doing?07:34
nixternalwoohoo Toadstool...welcome back :)07:34
* rgreening sleeps for 2 hrs now.. before work.07:34
a|wennn rgreening07:34
nixternalg'nite rgreening07:35
nixternalhrmm, where did he go?07:35
dholbachToadstool: did you find your way back into the Ubuntu Development world easily?07:35
* persia suspects Toadstool is otherwise occupied07:37
dholbachlet's wait another 2 minutes and then do a|wen first?07:38
a|wenfine for me07:39
dholbachok... Toadstool: we'll get back to you07:40
dholbach[TOPIC] Andreas Wenning07:40
MootBotNew Topic:  Andreas Wenning07:40
a|wenhi! all around07:41
dholbachHow's Thailand? Are you in touch with any local group there? :)07:41
a|wenit's good :) ... no sadly not; but i'm sure to "promoting" some (k)ubuntu whenever i can07:42
* a|wen found an ubuntu sticker on one of the office doors of his department the other day07:44
dholbacha|wen: how has the work been with the Security team? have you had the chance to work directly with them?07:44
geserhow comes that so many kubuntu developers are applying? doesn't ubuntu-desktop need any more devs or is kubuntu simply better at recruiting?07:44
persiaa|wen, You mention work on security updates.  Have you had any involvement with MOTU SWAT?07:44
persiageser, Probably just cyclical: it was the other way for quite a while.07:44
nixternalgeser: and lets not forget that 3 out of 7 MC members are also Kubuntu developers :)07:45
nixternalit is an invasion I tell you07:45
a|wendholbach: not directly no ... until now i've simply been preparing an upload for the full stack and trying to get a sponsor07:45
dholbacha|wen: I'm sure they're going to appreciate helping hands. :-)07:45
Stskeepsjaunty, bzr qt3 , sourcepackage qt4=4.5.0-0maemo0mer107:46
Stskeepser, sorry07:46
a|wenbut i might try to get involved with motu swat soon ... i think security updates are very important to focus at07:46
a|wengeser: they (we) are good at welcoming people in the kubuntu camp ... and the kde-packaging is streamlined (thx apachelogger) to easily get people to help; that has worked really good07:47
nixternalI can also provide some endorsement on a|wen...he has done a tremendous job with helping on the KDE 4.x packages and helping out others as well in regards to packaging in #kubuntu-devel...he has been around a long time and always found a way to contribute substantially07:47
dholbacha|wen: you said you're maintaining packages in debian itself too?07:48
a|wenthx nixternal :)07:48
persiaa|wen, https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cve-tracker might address part of your "What I like least in Ubuntu" concern.07:48
nixternalheh, all this time I thought you were a MOTU already..then again, when you went for Kubuntu Member I thought you were already a member then as well07:48
a|wendholbach: correct ... i have python-uniconvertor (currently in ubuntu/main); and two apache modules07:48
dholbacha|wen: Do you think we're doing a good job at working with Debian in general?07:49
a|wenpersia: uhh; i should look at that one and see, what that is07:49
a|wendholbach: in general yes, but everyone needs to be aware of it ... i'm very focused on sending patches upstream to debian, but we need all to be that07:50
a|wenwe'll all benefit for getting patches/changes/improvements to debian to cut down on the diff ... we also need to better to that with the current kde-packaging07:51
dholbacha|wen: anything we could do to give it more visibility?07:51
a|wendholbach: adding it as part of the merge-process? (can't remember if it is already there)07:52
dholbachI *think* it's mentioned there.07:53
dholbachAnyway, I was just interested to hear the views from somebody who "lives in both worlds".07:53
dholbachsoren, geser, persia, nixternal: any more questions?07:53
nixternalnone here07:53
geserdholbach: no, you'are doing the questioning great, you haven't unlearned anything in your MC absence time :)07:54
a|wendholbach: and as a sponsor we should remember asking if it is done ... i'm often asked by eg. ScottK if i remembered to send it upstream (luckily i often have)07:54
sorendholbach: Yeah, what geser said :)07:54
dholbachgeser: :-)07:54
dholbacha|wen: I guess you're going to bear that in mind, when doing sponsoring yourself? :)07:55
persiaI don't have any more questions.  I've been quite impressed with the quality of changelog entries in the patches I've seen.07:55
a|wendholbach: of course :)07:55
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Andreas Wenning join the MOTU team?07:55
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Andreas Wenning join the MOTU team?.07:55
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot07:55
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting07:55
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 107:55
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 207:55
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 307:55
MootBot+1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 407:55
MootBot+1 received from soren. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 507:55
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 507:55
nixternalcongratulations and welcome a|wen!!! \o/07:56
dholbachcongratulations a|wen! :)07:56
sorenYay, more Danish MOTU's!07:56
nixternalanother kubuntu suckah bites the dust :p07:56
a|wenthx everyone :)07:56
persiaAnd has Toadstool returned?07:56
a|wensoren: yay!07:56
dholbachnobody expects the Danish ... err.... :)07:56
nixternalmmm, a danish...I am quite hungry actually :p07:56
sorennixternal: We /are/ tasty, aren't we?07:56
nixternalerr, not that kind of danish your perverts!07:56
* dholbach will cut that out of the meeting logs07:57
persiaRight.  We've clearly lost cohesion.  Let's call it done, and reconvene in a couple weeks.07:57
dholbachI propose we do Toadstool's re-application over mail if he doesn't turn up by the end of the hour.07:57
nixternal2 minutes...07:58
persiaI thought we didn't want to do them over mail anymore.07:58
sorenpersia: As a rule, we don't. Toadstool's appliaction is kind of special, though.07:58
persiasoren, Why is it any different than any other reapplication?07:59
dholbachpersia: I was thinking that it'd be nice if re-applications were unbureaucratic07:59
sorenpersia: We've been through this :)07:59
sorenpersia: Because it's a reapplication.07:59
persiadholbach, It's not that, it's that I think we ought to do it one way or the other.  Mixing them just seems wrong.07:59
sorenOn a whim, yes.08:00
sorenThis is a special instance, though.08:00
persiaWell, it's a rare instance, but I don't know why it's special, but I think I'm looking at a narrower thing than you (see above).08:00
dholbachI'm not really opposed to doing them in our meetings, I was just thinking that Jérémie waited 3 weeks now and given that his skills are undoubted mail might be more convenient08:01
geserdid we grant the applicant the opportunity to process his application my mail if he can't make it to any meeting?08:01
dholbach(or at least I don't doubt his skills given his involvement in Ubuntu before)08:01
dholbachgeser: yes, we said we are flexible :)08:02
sorenpersia: Oh, right I see what you said now. I missed a "re" somewhere :)08:02
persiaWell, the other alternative would be to process in his absence.08:02
persiaI'm not that excited about that, because I think it's unfair if we have unanswered questions.08:03
dholbachI agree, meeting to not ask questions is weird. :)08:03
geserme too08:03
persiaOn the other hand, I don't especially want to make him wait: I just think that if we switched from mail to meetings because we thought it was better, we should stick with that.08:03
persiaI also think it's unfair to expect some applicants to appear at meetings, and other applicants to be processed by mail.08:04
dholbachI'm happy to make it an impromptu meeting then. I was just trying to avoid making him wait another 2 weeks.08:04
persiaThat said, if we want to declare that reapplications only require declaration of intent and plans, and we just do it, I'm good with that, but let it be a precedent.08:04
sorenpersia: Sounds reasonable.08:05
nixternalalrighty all, I am going to bed...I shall talk to you later on today :)08:05
dholbachnight nixternal08:05
dholbachsoren, geser, persia: so what's your favourite solution now?08:06
* persia is unsure, but wants the chosen solution to not be "special".08:06
sorenWhen Toadstool shows up next, we can see if we can make quorum for an inpromptu meeting.08:07
dholbachsoren: +108:07
dholbachAs we've done that before, it wouldn't be a precedent. :-)08:07
persiaI'm not opposed.  Will we extend that to any applicant, or just for reapplicants?08:07
dholbachpersia: we did it for Laney (I think) because of scheduling / timing problems 4 weeks ago08:08
dholbachso it's more a "be flexible when necessary" instead of a new "special rule"08:08
persiaWe did.  Do we expect to keep doing that if there are issues with scheduling/timing?08:08
sorenpersia: I think that's a reasonable thing to offer to others.08:09
sorenpersia: We're all of course free to say that it's a bad time for us.08:09
persiaOK.  That seems reasonable.08:09
dholbachOK. :)08:09
dholbach[TOPIC] AOB08:09
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB08:09
dholbachgeser, soren, persia: anything from you?08:09
persiaSo, if someone can't make a scheduled meeting, we will consider them for a possible ad-hoc meeting between the scheduled meeting and the next scheduled meeting.08:10
persiaAnd if any of us have dire concerns or strong praise, we'll annotate the applicant wiki page after the missed meeting.08:10
persiaDoes that sound complete?08:10
sorenpersia: Perfect.08:11
dholbachThe cases up until now were obvious: timezone confusion and dropping off the internet.08:11
dholbachWe didn't have the case yet where an applicant said "I flat out can't make any of those times".08:12
persiaRight.  I'm essentially trying to establish a guideline that lets us reasonably say "yes" or "no" rather than "come to the next one".08:12
dholbachI'm happy with what you said above08:13
persiaOK.  That's three of us, which unfortunately isn't quorum.  I'll bring it up at the next MC call, and if we have quorum, add it to the wiki page.08:14
dholbachok great08:14
dholbachIs there any other business?08:14
dholbachI guess not.08:15
dholbachI'm happy to do the honours and update the agenda for next time.08:15
dholbachSee you in two weeks! :)08:15
dholbachThanks everybody08:15
MootBotMeeting finished at 03:15.08:15
geserI'm happy with the proposed solution (ad-hoc meetings)08:16
persiageser, Excellent.  You save me having to remember the details :)  I'll update the wiki page in a few hours.08:19
dholbachthanks persia08:19
Toadstoolguys I'm really really sorry, stuck in traffic for 2 hours :(08:22
dholbachpersia, soren, geser: still there? :)08:23
* persia is still here08:23
* geser has to leave now, will be back in around 3 hours if necessary08:23
persiaThat means no quorum for at least three hours, unless someone else appears.08:24
ToadstoolI'll show up next meeting then, no worries :)08:24
Toadstoolmy fault anyways, I should have left home earlier08:24
Toadstoolsorry about the inconvenience08:24
dholbachToadstool: no worries - I'd be happy to make it an impromptu meeting later today if we can get quorum08:25
Toadstooldholbach: fine with me, just ping me if you do, thank you for the effort08:26
* dholbach hugs Toadstool08:26
* Toadstool hugs dholbach back08:26
dholbachjpds, geser, persia, Toadstool: around? :)09:52
geseryes :)09:52
* jpds waves.09:53
MootBotMeeting started at 04:53. The chair is dholbach.09:53
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]09:53
persiaDid we lose soren in the interim?09:53
dholbachThis is an impromptu meeting to deal with the re-application of Toadstool aka Jérémie Corbier.09:53
dholbachpersia: I pinged him09:53
Toadstoolfirst, I'd like to apologize and thank you all for showing up now :)09:53
dholbach[TOPIC] Re-activation of Jérémie Corbier09:54
MootBotNew Topic:  Re-activation of Jérémie Corbier09:54
dholbach[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-February/002030.html09:54
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-February/002030.html09:54
persiaToadstool, You mention that you've been following process change to some degree.  What changed most while you were away?09:54
Toadstoolthat's quite a lot of things to talk about but mainly SRUs and ways the different freezes are handled I guess09:55
ToadstoolI don't know the exact changes to be honest, but I know things changed and I also know where to look at on the mailing lists and on the wiki09:56
dholbachToadstool: is there anything that specifically interests you in the mobile world?09:56
Toadstoollow level stuff, drivers, etc. but I have recently looked at how UIs are designed (Maemo, U Mobile, etc) and I think I am going to take a deeper look at that as well09:58
dholbachI'm sure the Ubuntu Mobile people will be pleased to get to know you09:59
Toadstoolfor what is worth, I am working as a linux embedded software engineer, so I have a good understanding of how things work on a mobile device ;)09:59
dholbachah, I didn't know :)10:00
dholbachjpds, geser: do you have any questions?10:00
persiaToadstool, I'm also curious if you put anything in the sponsors queue while you were waiting to be MOTU again.10:00
Toadstoolnot yet, but I am currently working on putting the qc-usb driver into shape for Jaunty or Karmic10:01
Toadstoolthe package is ready, I just need to test it a little more10:02
persiaOh, excellent!10:02
* soren is around-ish10:02
dholbachsoren: questions? :)10:03
sorenNone :)10:03
jpdsNone from me.10:04
geserno questions from me either10:05
dholbachpersia: anything else from you?10:05
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Jérémie Corbier re-join the MOTU team?10:05
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Jérémie Corbier re-join the MOTU team?.10:05
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot10:05
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting10:05
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 110:05
MootBot+1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 210:05
MootBot+1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 310:05
MootBot+1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 410:06
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 410:06
dholbachsorry soren :)10:06
persiaThat's +5!10:06
dholbachI thought we had all already10:06
Toadstoolyay! \o/10:06
dholbachcongratulations Toadstool!10:06
dholbachand welcome back!10:06
Toadstoolthank you guys!10:06
persiaWelcome back Toadstool10:06
gesersoren: two seconds to slow or dholbach two seconds too fast10:07
Toadstooland thanks for your time, greatly appreciated10:07
dholbachsomebody wants to do the honours?10:07
Toadstoolit's good to be back :)10:07
* persia will do them if nobody else steps up, as dholbach already did several today10:07
* persia looks for someone else10:08
jpdsI can do it.10:08
dholbachthanks a lot jpds10:08
MootBotMeeting finished at 05:08.10:08
dholbachThanks a lot everybody!10:08
Toadstoolthanks again10:09
=== davidm_ is now known as davidm
=== asac_ is now known as asac
* lool waves14:00
* pgraner waves14:02
slangasekmdz, lool, Riddell, sbeattie, Hobbsee: ping14:04
mdzslangasek: emailed you earlier14:04
loolslangasek: 15:00  * lool waves14:04
slangasekmdz: ah, ok14:04
MootBotMeeting started at 09:06. The chair is slangasek.14:06
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:06
* slangasek waves back to lool, right :)14:06
slangasek[TOPIC] outstanding actions14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  outstanding actions14:06
slangasekactually only two of these carried over14:07
slangasekcjwatson: have you had a chance to prod anyone about helping with the Qt powerpc ICE?14:08
cjwatsonunfortunately not, but I did (just today) ask IS to set up a jaunty chroot on davis, and with the aid of that I've reproduced the ICE just a few moments ago14:09
cjwatsonso I'll put together the usual preprocessed source, with a minimal case if I can14:09
cjwatsonsorry I'm a bit late on that14:10
slangasekit happens... :)14:10
slangasekthe other carry-over was bug #88746, on my list.  Still haven't had the block of time to dig through that bug and turn it into something sensible14:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 88746 in linux "ehci_hcd module causes I/O errors in USB 2.0 devices" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8874614:11
slangaseksince I haven't found the time for that, I'll happily give that over if someone else wants to volunteer to take it14:12
slangasekotherwise I'll keep it on my list14:12
cjwatsonkernel perhaps?14:12
* rtg ducks14:12
cjwatsonor did they explicitly ask for others to look at it?14:12
slangasekthey explicitly disclaimed responsibility for that morass of a bug report :)14:13
rtgcjwatson: its one of those enormous dogpile bugs.14:13
cjwatsonrtg: oh, I know the feeling, believe me ...14:13
slangasekwell, nobody jumping up and down to take it, I'll keep it in my pile14:14
slangasekbtw, mdz sent me a couple of other items for the agenda which I'll insert at the end14:15
loolThe "surprize" items14:15
slangasek[TOPIC] Future issues expected to impact the release14:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Future issues expected to impact the release14:15
loolIs that free floor?14:15
slangaseki.e., anything in the pipeline from anyone's team that we need to be aware of?14:16
pittidesktop team still has 4, I'm afraid14:16
slangasekpitti: go ahead14:16
pittithey are on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus, but the most important one is the potential update of -intel14:16
pitticurrently we are leaning much towards "no"14:16
pittibut if testing shows that it works much better than the current one, without much regressions, we might consider it14:17
pittigiven intel's recent problems with it's QA, we are kind of sitting between a rock and a hard place here14:17
cjwatsonmy impression is that -intel has been flakier than desirable this cycle14:17
pitticjwatson: very much so14:17
loolI'd like to mention that we're currently spending all our efforts getting imx51/babbage daily images in place; this is unfortunately bound to some problems: building RedBoot requires a cross toolchain, we'd like to avoid that in main but we need a redboot binary for the images; I'm still not done with the tool to generate RedBoot binary config partitions from scratch; VFP is blocked on having a new kernel on the buildds and porter box, but ...14:17
pittiit's so ironic that ATI cards which everyone hated a year or two ago are now almost working better than intel ones :/14:18
lool... that's getting close14:18
* slangasek nods to pitti.14:18
rtgpitti: ATI support for several Radeon controllers is still forthcoming. I'll get them done in time for Beta.14:18
pittislangasek: so, I'm very conservative about this, but we should at least keep the option on the table14:18
slangaseklool: why does it require a cross-toolchain?14:18
slangasekpitti: right, understood14:18
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-1314:18
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-1314:18
pittirtg: right, is that update (DRI for r6xx/r7xx) already committed, or are there problems with it?14:19
loolslangasek: I don't have the specifics, NCommander has and I've asked him to write them down and we might get help from ARM folks who know RedBoot well to debug14:19
* slangasek gets the agenda up, so the topics are less of a surprise :)14:19
rtgpitti: no, just couldn't get it done in time for A6.14:19
loolslangasek: I wish we'd build with a native toolchain, but ECos upstream (used in RedBoot) doesn't support native builds but only arm-unknown-eabi ones14:19
slangasekhrm, odd14:19
loolIn the meantime, NCommander proceeds to packaging a cross toolchain14:19
pittirtg: that's fine14:19
loolslangasek: I didn't work directly on this, but will hand you the details when I get them from NCommander14:20
slangaseklool: understood, thanks14:20
rtglool: the kernel team wouldn't mind a cross tool chain for testing kernel builds14:20
slangasekrtg: it sounds like it's arm-cross-arm, not arm-cross-something-fast :)14:20
loolrtg: I was working on a convenience one for this reason, but having one in main doesn't sound like a good idea14:21
rtglool: something that worked on Jaunty would be fine with me14:21
loolslangasek: We can discuss this particular topic into details if you like, but NCommander proposed an i386->arm toolchain to build an arch: all binary with the redboot as "data" in it; I'm not too hot though14:21
slangaseklool: ah, ok14:22
loolI think we don't need to cover the details here though, and that's currently the workaround solution, my personal preference is for a native build14:22
slangasekthat seems unnecessary to me; but we can talk about it after the meeting14:22
slangasek[TOPIC] general feature update14:22
MootBotNew Topic:  general feature update14:22
loolIt might be only needed in jaunty where we release these particular SD image with RedBoot, hopefully we wont need to include it in future images14:22
pittidesktop features> all specs done \o/14:23
slangasekI'm hoping there's nothing to discuss for this topic, but just in case :)  anyone have features still coming in that we need to know about?14:23
pittislangasek: Mark wants plymouth in jaunty14:23
loolVFP patches14:23
pitti(just kidding)14:23
loolpitti: :-)14:23
slangasekheh :)14:23
rtgpitti: you had me going for a second14:24
slangasek[TOPIC] Spot check on the status of ATI DRI patches14:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Spot check on the status of ATI DRI patches14:24
cjwatsonfoundations is mostly ok, but we still have a few that need polishing14:24
pittibah, it's just not the same on IRC, without seeing slangasek's boggled face IRL14:24
loolslangasek: We expect to work until the last minute on imx51/babbage bug fixes, the kernel is quite rough and we're seeing some userspace issues14:24
cjwatsonand there are a few extra-FF ones, like James' daily builds / dist. dev. work14:24
cjwatsonslangasek: I'm curious about grub2 ...14:24
slangasekoh, oops, one minute is too small a window - I thought jokes meant we were done ;)14:24
pittinew ATI xorg driver is in jaunty now14:24
rtgslangasek: I'll get ATI kernel patches in the next upload14:25
slangasekcjwatson: I have email from evand saying that grub2 is only available for preseeding; is that how we want to ship it?14:26
slangasekrtg: excellent, thanks :)14:26
loolOh and I'm happy to report UNR is in a good shape14:26
cjwatsonslangasek: perhaps we should promote it to something you can select in expert mode14:27
slangasekright, that sounds good to me14:27
cjwatsonslangasek: which is how it is in Debian anyway14:27
cjwatsonso that's just reverting a patch14:27
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to make grub2 available in installer expert mode14:28
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to make grub2 available in installer expert mode14:28
slangasekcjwatson: besides that, I think we're already there code-wise14:28
cjwatsonslangasek: lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/grub-installer/ubuntu r714 FWIW14:29
slangasek[TOPIC] Hardware testing14:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Hardware testing14:29
slangasekcjwatson: ack, thanks14:29
cjwatsongrub-pc will have to go in main for it to work14:29
cjwatsonerr ... maybe14:29
cjwatsontry it :)14:29
slangasekwill do. :)14:29
cjwatsonhardware testing fell victim to the udev/partitioner races, I know14:30
cjwatsonfader: have you had a chance to retry with server CD 20090311.1 yet?14:30
slangasekfader: mdz also writes that he's expecting some reporting today; is that done / linked from somewhere?14:31
fadercjwatson: It was supposed to happen overnight but there was a checkbox issue that prevented it.  He's working on it now, so we should have a retest later today sometime.14:31
mdzfader: expecting an up-to-date test report for all operational hardware14:31
cjwatsonfader: right, ok14:31
faderReporting is coming up now... schwuk was working on the report.  It should be available in ~5 minutes.14:31
cjwatsonfader: I started a bit late due to a doctor's appointment, so will be around a little more into the evening14:32
cjwatsonin case that's useful14:32
fadercjwatson: Great.  I am in Montreal now and will be flying back to the US this evening but I think that's fairly late into your night anyway14:32
faderSo I will bug you if and when I can reproduce that issue.14:32
slangasek~5min - let's move on and fader can catch us up with the report when it's available14:33
cjwatsonit's useful to know that you have a 50-75% reproduction rate, though; that will really speed things up14:33
slangasek[TOPIC] Regressions14:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Regressions14:34
slangasekmdz asks if we know whether the regressions list is getting shorter or longer over time14:34
slangasekrobbiew: ISTR you had some conversations with QA about this?14:34
cjwatsonI don't have hard numbers, but the regressions-potential list looks about the same as the last time I looked at it14:35
cjwatsonstill only two bugs there that are obviously foundations (one of those unreproducible)14:35
* robbiew recalls something...but pretty sure he didn't follow through :/14:35
* robbiew will follow up14:35
slangasekyes, the count doesn't look much different to me14:35
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/regression-potential/14:36
robbiewslangasek: I know mdz was interested in seeing new regressions for the week highlighted in this meeting14:36
cjwatsonalso other directories in there with obvious names14:36
slangasekcjwatson: oh hey, nice14:36
robbiewslangasek: as well as any that closed...basically tracking th incoming/closure rates14:37
slangasekrobbiew: ah, yes - that means having state somewhere telling us when bugs are marked as regressions14:37
cjwatsonit's a little hard to follow the numbers there14:37
slangasekwhich LP itself doesn't appear to give us :/14:37
cjwatsonsince there's no "all open states" line14:37
cjwatsonbdmurray: ^- would be useful14:37
cjwatsongut feel looks like up somewhat over the last month or two, but down from levels at the same point last release14:39
slangasek[TOPIC] Beta testing14:39
MootBotNew Topic:  Beta testing14:39
slangasekmdz mentions that, as we've made some infrastructural changes this cycle, it would be useful to include a call for testing with pointers to test plans as part of the beta announcement14:40
slangasekhe gives hotkeys as an example14:40
cjwatsonbased on the technical overview, presumably14:41
slangasekare there others calls for testing we want to include in the beta announcement?14:41
cjwatsonext4 perhaps?14:41
cjwatsonmost of the new features we've implemented are probably candidates14:41
slangasekI would tend to shy away from that one because we already know what the biggest ext4 issue is14:41
slangasekand having broad testing is probably not going to get us actionable feedback?14:42
slangasek(just "ext4 ate my files!")14:42
robbiewboot speed? :P14:42
mdz"make sure your system still boots"14:42
mdzsuspend/resume is another14:42
pittiupgrades on ATI hardware14:43
pitti(for the fglrx -> ati transitioning)14:43
pgranermdz: ack we are doing a CFT for beata on suspend resume14:43
loolFrequency scaling?14:43
pittilool: how is that new?14:43
loolpitti: It's in kernel and relies on particular ordering of driver init14:43
cjwatsonKickstart LVM support14:43
pittilool: oh, you mean test that it still works properly?14:43
loolpitti: yes14:43
mdzupdate management14:43
slangasekpgraner: is there a test plan written up in the wiki currently?  Then I can link to it in the beta announcement, in addition to any CFT you guys do14:44
mdzpulse audio?14:44
loolslangasek: Hey why don't you go over jaunty-changes for the last 6 months?14:44
pgranerslangasek: yes ogasawara can work with you on that14:44
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to get suspend/resume test plan from ogra14:44
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to get suspend/resume test plan from ogra14:44
cjwatsonaccessibility in installer / live CD (was busted, has been fixed)14:44
slangasekwill fix the action in post-production :-P14:44
cjwatsonLVM by default on the server14:44
slangaseklool: that sounds... inefficient14:45
pgranerslangasek: that should be ogasawara14:45
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to get suspend/resume test plan from ogasawara, who is not interchangeable with ogra14:45
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to get suspend/resume test plan from ogasawara, who is not interchangeable with ogra14:45
pgranerslangasek: :-)14:46
ograwell, if she takes over ARM enablement, i'm happy to write nifty plans :)14:46
loolslangasek: I was just kidding :)14:46
* lool should include a :-P next time14:46
slangasekok, I think that gives me a good list to work with, thanks; I'll collate those suggestions and follow up with people individually for details as necessary14:46
slangasekfader: does schwuk happen to have that report ready?14:48
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html14:48
faderHe's adding in the notes about machines that are untested (i.e. RT tickets, status of hardware with issues)14:48
faderI will update the report once that data is available14:49
pittihm, details link is again needing login14:49
slangasekah, anticipating my question :)14:49
faderslangasek: waiting for the right time :)14:49
robbiewmine too14:49
faderDetails leads to the certification website; if you need a login please email me14:49
cjwatsonthree failures, all Kubuntu; is that a specific issue with Kubuntu or coincidence?14:49
fadercjwatson: It's a coincidence... the report right now is showing only the most recently tested image.  We're actually testing a *lot* more than you see here.  My plan for the next iteration of this is to show all the various images as well14:50
faderIt just hasn't made it in yet as I've been struggling to make sure things get tested... now that that is slowly falling into place I can focus more on improving the data that we're sharing14:51
fader(Or will be able to once the obvious laptop testing break is fixed, but cr3 is working on that)14:51
slangasekthat's it from me - anything else before we adjourn?14:52
cjwatsonshould a summary of the cert testing be rolled into http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/weatherreport.html now that it's more useful?14:53
slangasekgood idea14:53
fadercjwatson: I'd be happy to work with ogasawara to get that in if you can tell me what would be useful to see there14:53
slangasekfader: a pass/fail/untested count, plus a link to the full report14:54
faderAre you looking for a full report on all hardware or just a simple status like pass/fail count?14:54
faderslangasek: Great, I'll contact ogasawara about that and get that in there14:54
cjwatsonI suspect a one-line summary kind of thing would fit better14:54
slangasek[ACTION] fader to follow up with ogasawara about linking the HW cert report from the weather report14:55
MootBotACTION received:  fader to follow up with ogasawara about linking the HW cert report from the weather report14:55
cjwatsonperhaps X failed out of Y tested14:55
cjwatson... right, as slangasek said but I was too dopey to read14:55
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:56.14:56
pittithanks everyone14:56
slangasekthanks, all. :)14:56
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MTecknologyeh... nvm22:51
MTecknologysorry, wrong chan22:52

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