[00:12] n2diy: I downloaded 8ubuntu-8.04.1-desktop-i386.iso from http://ubuntu.media.mit.edu/ubuntu-releases/ [00:12] and from http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/CDs-Xubuntu/8.04.1/release/ [00:12] they both burned to Memorex CD-R and both passed the cd-integrity-check with no errors [00:13] If they are consistently not passing, are you using the same brand of cd-r's? Maybe it is the blanks, not the downloads [00:18] charlie-tca, ok, the burns were three on Maxwells, and two on Phillips. There are a couple of others, but they are not accessible to me.Not a big deal, I loaded from the Alt CD, and I'm playing with Xubuntu here/now. [00:20] i can't get sound on my HP 2133, i'v installed the alsa driver but still no sound -- any tips ?? [00:22] Hi guys, i have a little problem with upgrading from xubuntu 8.04 to 8.10. When i open the update manager it will fetch current updates for all auxillary software, but it does not display an upgrade to 8.10 option. any ideas/ [00:22] xett, you need to change your upgrade settings [00:22] xett, Click applications > system > software sources [00:23] and then? [00:23] xett, Look on the upgrade tab, under "Release Upgrade" [00:23] ah, is that the section from long term to all releases? [00:25] that looks like it may have worked [00:26] fantastic, that worked. gotta update now. Thanks Cody [00:26] No problem === source is now known as forces [02:17] 9.10 alpha 5, not getting a wm coming up, X seems to come up, but all I get is a gray screen with a mouse cursor, any ideas? [02:17] fresh install, this happened after getting the updates [02:19] cat /var/log/syslog, messages, daemon.log, kern.log? [02:19] try sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get dist-upgrade in a tty, maybe? [02:22] I am doing the upgrade now... [02:23] a bunch to [02:23] do [02:23] I don't see anything obvious in those log files [02:23] you want me to post em in a pastebin or something? [02:25] upgrade done, rebooting [02:27] worked [02:27] you're the man. [02:28] Thanks. [02:33] Hello [02:33] !hi [02:33] Hi! Welcome to #xubuntu! [02:33] I am trying to install VirtualBox from a deb on Xubuntu 8.10 [02:33] But [02:33] I get an error saying that libqt4-network is not satisfiable [02:33] Anyone know I can get it? [02:33] You need to install libqt4 [02:34] Can't find the package [02:34] Just a minute, let me look for the package name [02:35] thanks [02:39] when installing via the alternate installer is there a way to open an lvm on a pre-existing dm-crypt'ed volume? [02:40] There is, but I don't know how to. [02:41] WDC: Do you have qt4-dev-tools? [02:41] It satisfies the qt dependency issue for VBox [02:41] it keeps wanting to reinitialize everything... which would be bad... [02:43] charlie-tca: sorry [02:43] me looks [02:43] download [02:43] ing [02:43] zoredache: IntuitiveNipple (I think) has taken people through that [02:43] I run into him in #ubuntu+1, but he isn't there right now [02:44] * charlie-tca keeps hoping some knowledge will rub off to him [02:45] http://i41.tinypic.com/102l9hk.jpg [02:45] Still won't do it [02:47] charlie-tca: so when you are looking at wishlist bugs, how do you triage them? I personally think that bug 70085 really is such a niche issue and so impractical to fix, that it probably should just be closed [02:49] If they are a new idea, send them to brainstorm, if they are not practical, normally invalid them. [02:50] I think that one should have gone to Brainstorm, but it didn't exist yet. At least there it is discussed and voted on by the users [02:50] The more popular ideas do get looked at by the developers. [02:51] Looks like he would like us to do the copying for him? [02:52] WDC: still looking... [02:54] thanks [02:57] WDC: Do you have universe enabled in repositories? there is a "libqt4-network" in there [02:57] charlie-tca: how would I do that? [02:58] You should be able to 'sudo apt-get install libqt4-network' in a terminal. (Without the quote marks) [03:00] charlie-tca: well, ideally it would be nice to provide a list of boot devices instead of a single device, and grub would create entries for each, and then setup the fallback entries for each. I don't think it would be that useful. Most computers that would be using software raid wouldn't automagically boot from the second drive === bac is now known as bac_afk [03:02] That would be a good reason to suggest he take it to Brainstorm. Like this: [03:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#An%20idea%20to%20improve%20Ubuntu [03:03] Maybe reword it so it doesn't look like it was neglected for two years [03:04] This might be the second time I have ever suggested Brainstorm. [03:04] The monkeys, they are coming. [03:05] I thought they were here, 1967 or so? [03:05] Ah no, that was The Monkeys. [03:05] Monkees actually, come to think of it. [03:05] * charlie-tca don't know the difference [03:06] LOL [03:07] hey guys just put a clean install on the pc but have a finnicky WUSB54GCS usb adapter that I am trying to install ndiswrapper for BUT for whatever reason I am not able to get the ndiswrapper-utils package from the CD so that I can do the job [03:08] How come the SeaMonkey package is old? [03:08] What version [03:08] jimisrvrox: what version of Xubuntu? [03:08] so im wondering what to do Ive looked at some docs but am not finding what I am looking for [03:08] 8.10 [03:08] Should be built into the kernel, it no longer uses ndiswrapper. [03:09] If you have to install it, you install the module. [03:09] well I would assume that if it was then the card would work out of the box.. [03:09] sounds right to me. I am by no means good at wireless. [03:09] but when I do lsusb it sees it but cannot enable wireless networking and even the wireless network connection does not work with me either [03:09] ball: how old is it? [03:10] A version or two. [03:10] does lsusb show the adapter? [03:10] yes [03:10] does iwconfig? [03:10] what really sucks is I can use ubuntu and get the wmp54g to work [03:10] but when I bought the new card wasnt aware that wal-mart switched models on me! [03:11] Then it should work. Did you need ndiswrapper there? [03:11] no [03:11] but its a diff model [03:11] !wireless [03:11] Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs [03:11] and of course I tested the new card on my ubuntu box and nada [03:12] let me try iwconfig and see what I get [03:12] brb [03:12] ok no wireless but lsusb sees is [03:12] it* [03:12] If no one here can help, you might try in #ubuntu, they have many more people [03:13] Anyone know how to help with a wireless USB adapter? [03:13] well I was also thinking of trying pclinuxos [03:13] but im not used to kde but I test drove the latest and it was interesting but not as easy as ubuntu/xubuntu to find the networking stuff [03:16] Ubuntu/Xubuntu is getting better at getting it right. === cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville [03:16] yes I agree completely [03:16] It just hasn't rubbed off on me. [03:17] what irritated me earlier is IT guy at work locked the desktop on everybody enforcing group policy on XP so I was trying to look through regedit to unlock the S***T again :D [03:17] but no dice on that [03:17] heh [03:18] kept running into if you dont have admin priv's and on the domain machine cant really do nothing about it [03:18] but I figure there has to be some shit in regedit that I could [03:18] Yeah, they got mad at me for moving files on the server a few years ago. [03:18] haha [03:19] IT 'gods' NOT! [03:19] hehe [03:19] the rebel in me comes out when they do crap like that [03:19] Just trying to make life easier... [03:19] so I start thinking about how much 'security' stuff I should learn to teach them theyre not secure and then plaster a nice lil R00t3d ur windoze ass wallpaper on there for em to look at :D [03:20] That does help them learn. [03:20] Back to work. I got two upgrades running [03:20] yeah learn that they need to scratch their heads to figure it out better :D [03:59] hello folks. Im having troubles connecting to my desktop via SSH. I think i'm having some issues with portmap or either hosts.deny. [04:00] i can SSH to it if I'm on the same LAN, but if I join another network, i time out on port 22 [04:03] can anyone tell me how to use portmap to open port 22? [04:07] Oh dear, I just remembered I'm on irc [04:08] heh [04:08] wb [04:17] back in a bit [04:18] !pdf [04:18] pdf is the Portable Document Format created by Adobe; viewable in GNU/Linux with xpdf/kpdf/okular/evince, and also adobe reader (free download, but closed source) [04:20] any1 have a recommendation for a pdf viewer/creater? [04:20] evince works well as a viewer [04:20] I don't handle many pdf's, but if I do need to read one, evince is what i use [04:22] can it add bookmarks? [04:22] not sure [04:22] i have a book as pdf and would like to be able to add bookmarks [04:22] like I said, i don't do much :) [04:22] let me open it up and take a look [04:22] one sec [04:22] well thank you [04:23] it doesn't appear to do bookmarks [04:24] bummer it looks nice [04:24] it has the side pane on the left (like adobe reader) with the thumbnails of the pages, [04:24] but that seems to be about it [04:24] thank you much [04:24] cool [04:24] no problemo [04:30] is there a way to stack the panel, and xcfe panel on top of each other, on the bottom of the screen? [04:32] as in one on top of the other? [04:33] yes [04:33] like they way Ubuntu does it? [04:33] i don't think ubuntu stacks panels in gnome...? [04:33] as far as I know, there's one at the top of the screen and one at the bottom of the screen [04:34] well, Ubuntu has for the four years I've been using it, which was up until 7 hours and 21 mimutes ago. :) [04:35] but, to answer your question, you can right click on the second panel and go to "Customize Panel" and click the "freely movable" radio button to put it where you want. That will allow you to drag it around [04:35] but, that's not gonna snap it to the other panel or anything [04:36] foofie, yes, I saw that, but my intial thought was I like it to stay in place. But, if it will stay where I put it, that will work. [04:36] maybe i don't understand the question fully? [04:37] what is the end goal? [04:38] in this screenshot http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/images/features/screens/home/main.jpg i only see 2 panels... one at the top and one at the bottom [04:39] foofie, you have two panels on the desktop, the xcfe panel showing all your apps, and the (gnome?) panel showing your shortcuts, time, etc... With Ubuntu, they would stack on top of each other, so both were fully visible. I modified my desktop, so they were on both on the bottom, [04:42] i use two small panels at the bottom of my screen [04:43] one in the middle with the xfce menu, quicklauncher, system and network moitors, clock, and freespace checker, then in another panel on the bottom right, the Iconbox and systray [04:45] hello evilbug [04:45] With Xubuntu, are both panels part of Xfce? [04:45] (the one at the top and the one at the bottom of the screen)? [04:46] well, the screenshot i linked to was the regular ubuntu version with gnome [04:47] ball: yes, they are generated by xfce-panel [04:48] ball- hey. [04:56] anybody in here good with ndiswrapper? [04:56] define "good"? heheh [04:57] ok well deal is i installed the win driver and then did ndiswrapper -m and then tried ifconfig wlan0 up and tells me that error while getting interface flags: no such device [04:58] and i was trying to follow a tut on getting the damn drivers to work [04:58] what card are you using? [04:58] wusb54gcs [04:58] linksys [04:59] but of course with that machine I have no connection to the net and the drivers are ralink [04:59] charlie-tca__: thanks [05:00] You are welcome [05:00] Anyone here used x11vnc with Xubuntu? [05:01] jimisvrox1: http://jefim.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/how-to-linksys-wusb54gc-wireless-and-ubuntu-linux-704-feisty/ [05:01] I use it somewhat regularly... why [05:01] !anyone [05:01] A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? [05:02] jimisrvrox1: i found that.... not sure if that will work for you. was written for feisty... [05:02] alright great thanks for the link I'll see if I can get it working..I appreciate it as Im a n00b at doing this kind of stuff [05:03] zoredache: Can I set it up so that even the login screen is shared? [05:05] ughhh...yet again...with about the 3rd distro ive tried...try to install the usb and what do I get...starting bluetooth...hannngg.... [05:10] ball: yes [05:11] zoredache: how do I do that? [05:12] generally, when I am using it, I ssh in from somewhere else and start x11vnc with a command that looks like this [05:12] x11vnc -localhost -nopw -display :0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -loop [05:12] -nopw = no password? [05:12] that will connect to whatever is using the :0 display [05:12] * ball writes that down [05:13] yeah... but it is also only bound to the localhost only... you would need to have ssh forwarding ports to use that [05:13] zoredache: speaking of ssh, im trying to get ssh set up on my desktop. I can ssh when i'm on the LAN, but from outside the LAN i time out on 22. Any ideas? [05:13] if you wanted to run that as a services, you wouldn't want the localhost, and you would want a password [05:14] foofie: do you have a firewall/router? Have you forwarded port 22 and allowed it through the firewall? [05:14] zoredache: as a service, with a password is probably what I'm after. [05:15] zoredache: i have a DSL modem and a netgear router. The router is in the DMZ of the modem, and i have port 22 forwarded on the router [05:15] check the x11vnc entry in the wiki for more [05:15] !x11vnc [05:15] Sorry, I don't know anything about x11vnc [05:16] hrm... there used to be one... [05:16] foofie: why have your router in the DMZ? [05:17] * zoredache is betting his 'modem' is actually a router with a modem as well [05:17] ball: well, i thought that would simplify things by taking the modem's NAT/Firewall crap ouf of the equation [05:18] the modem and the router are 2 seperate devices [05:19] My "modem" and router are two separate boxes too. [05:19] No dmz required. [05:19] ok foofie tried that method on the post and I am still getting the bluetooth crap only other thing that I dont have copied is the .cat files [05:19] here's something else: i can log in to both the modem's and the router's "web-based remote access" firmware interfaces from outside the lan [05:19] so I know that the request is getting to the router through the modem [05:20] how do you know that? [05:21] ball: to be quite honest, im not really sure what the DMZ does, but i am under the impression that it routes all requests directly to the router device instead of passing it through the modem's routing tables and crap [05:22] It sounds as though you have a rather grandiose "modem" [05:22] zoredache: i use DynDNS so I can have a static hostname, so I just go to hostname.com:modemport to access the modem, and hostname:routerport to access the router [05:23] ball: do you think I should take the router out of the DMZ? [05:24] foofie: perhaps once you have the rest of your setup working. [05:24] Remind me what you're trying to achieve [05:24] i want to have SSH access to my desktop from my office (at work) [05:25] using my laptop on my wireless network at home, i can ssh to 10.0.0.2 (the desktop's LAN IP) and log in no problems [05:25] but, from my office, I time out on 22 [05:26] Do you use DHCP on your wireless LAN? [05:26] yeah [05:26] the router assigns IP's [05:27] are you sure your work even allows ssh? [05:27] Did you configure your router to consistently hand out the same IP to the desktop, based on its MAC address? [05:27] ball: yes. I have that local IP reserved for the desktop [05:28] zoredache: well, as a test, i've logged my laptop on to an unsecured wireless network here at my apartment complex and I can't ssh in [05:28] foofie: did you forward port 22 from your router to the desktop? [05:29] ball: yes. TCP 22 is forwarded to 10.0.0.2 [05:29] Does your WAN IP address wander around, or is that static? [05:30] i have a dynamic WAN IP, but my router supports reporting to DynDNS, so I have a static hostname [05:30] (and just to eliminate that as a possibility, i've been doing testing with the IP address instead of the hostname) [05:31] That doesn't eliminate it as a possibility [05:32] well, i mean it eliminates DynDNS pointing to the wrong IP by accident [05:32] ...anyway, does your modem always give the router the same IP address? [05:33] (and does your "modem" forward port 22 to your router? [05:33] ) [05:34] alright foofie....followed the method and everything...still getting ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device when I type ifconfig wlan0 up [05:34] jimisrvox1: are you sure it's called wlan0? [05:35] yes thats the -m that it gives it [05:35] alias [05:36] ball: well, i think that the DMZ forwards all traffic to the router regardless, right? and also all traffic on 22 is forwarded to the router (and then the router should forward it to the desktop) [05:37] jimisrvrox1: are you sudoing that? [05:37] That's not what a dmz does [05:37] ball: well, as I said, Im not sure what the DMZ does.. i just had a guess [05:37] :p [05:38] yeah [05:38] I would take your router out of the DMZ and just make sure you're forwarding 22 from the "modem" to the router and then from the router to the desktop. [05:38] you talking about sudo -m [05:38] what I did was su before I did all of that stuff [05:40] ball: ok. taking router out of the DMZ... restarting modem [05:42] hrm [05:43] ok. i took the router out of the DMZ and updated DynDNS [05:43] still timing out on 22 [05:44] is your router getting its WAN IP via DHCP or is it statically assigned? [05:45] well, the WAN IP is assigned to the modem [05:45] I'll try with my damn usb card tomorrow..im out...laters..appreicate the assistance.. [05:46] foofie: *router's* WAN IP address. [05:46] (not Modem's) [05:47] i don't think the router gets a WAN IP, does it? the modem is assigned one from AT&T, the assigns one to the router, then the router assigns LAN IP's to each computer [05:47] maybe im just confused [05:48] foofie: you're confused. So far as the router is concerned, it has a WAN port. Whether that's physically plugged into a WAN or a LAN is irrelevant so far as it is concerned. [05:49] ok, you're referring to the ethernet cable that comes from the DSL modem into the router, right? [05:50] Hopefully into the router's WAN port [05:50] lol yeah [05:51] Good. How does that port on the router get its IP address? [05:51] the cable layout is phone line into the dsl modem, ethernet to the router (into the port labeled "internet"), then the desktop plugged into the first lan port [05:52] yes, and...? [05:52] the dsl modem assigns the router a 192 IP. then the router assignes each computer a 10.0.0.* IP [05:52] * ball nods [05:53] The DSL modem assigns the router a 192.168.n.n address via DHCP or via PPPoE? [05:54] DHCP [05:55] but, i have the option to disable DHCP [05:55] okay, and it consistently gets the same IP address? [05:55] yeah, don't disable that unless your "modem" lacks the ability to consistently assign the same IP based on the router's WAN interface's MAC address. [05:56] i'm looking for something where I can reserve that IP based on the MAC address, but don't see anything [05:57] the modem only has 1 ethernet port on it, and the DHCP starts at 192.168.1.1, so I'm assuming that the router always gets 192.168.1.1 [05:57] That would be strange. [05:57] Oh, and don't "assume". [05:57] what would be strange? [05:57] what is your modem's IP address (on its computer / LAN port) [05:57] ? [05:57] 192.168.1.1 is probably used by the modem [05:58] to access the modem, i direct firefox to 192.168.1.254 [05:58] Well you can't have the same IP address on your modem and your router. [05:58] ugh... okay. [05:58] that is strange.... [05:58] Ask your router it's WAN IP address. [06:01] well, i can access the router in either of 2 ways: by directing firefox to 10.0.0.1, or routerlogin.com [06:01] (the router apparently catches all requests to routerlogin.com and forwards them to the firmware) [06:02] foofie: ...and...? [06:03] charlie-tca__, that update didn't fix the issue at all, it shot right back up to 710+MB [06:03] the router apparently has 2 IP's? both 192.168.1.1 (to the modem) and 10.0.0.1 to computers behind it [06:04] hatake_kakashi: sorry to hear that. sounds like it is time to file a bug on it. [06:05] foofie: yes, that's normal [06:05] was that what you were asking? [06:05] sort of. [06:05] 1) unplug the router from the modem. 2) plug the desktop directly into the modem. 3) boot the desktop and see whether it gets 192.168.1.1 [06:05] charlie-tca__, yeah :/ can't really be buggered though, I just issued kill signal to the process.. if this happens regularly I'm just gonna do a nasty hack via setting up cron daemon to kill it every one hour [06:06] 4) try to ssh into it from the outside world. [06:06] hatake_kakashi: That works too [06:06] But it is easiest to get fixed when it is reported [06:07] charlie-tca__, better yet, I'll hunt down the service that's restarting this process whenever it gets killed and signal it to stop [06:07] ball: it got 192.168.1.3 [06:07] that second link you sent me had some guy suggesting to use some debugging tool [06:07] hatake_kakashi: That would be the best way [06:07] ball: also, SSH in from outside is not working [06:08] foofie: right, I wouldn't expect it to work if you're forwarding port 22 to 192.168.1.1 [06:09] foofie: try turning off the DHCP *server* that's running on the modem. Assign static IP to the desktop (temporarily) and try again [06:09] ...give it 192.168.1.1 [06:10] ...umm... make that 192.168.1.2 and make sure that port 22 is forwarded there. [06:10] ball: ok [06:10] the problem just then was that it was still trying to forward 22 to the router..i told it to forward 22 to the desktop, and ssh in from outside worked [06:11] foofie: there you go then. [06:11] last upgrade just finished. Going to bed now [06:12] well, i have to have the router in the equation unfortunately [06:12] my roommate still has to be able to connect to the LAN [06:13] ok.. i think i found the part where you can reserve IP's in the modem's firmware [06:13] You're missing the point. [06:14] foofie: ah good, you can reserve them based on MAC address? [06:14] i think so [06:14] does "IP Static ARP Entry" sound right? [06:14] never heard of ARP? [06:14] has a spot for an IP and for a MAC address, so I'm assuming this is it [06:14] Yes, I've heard of ARP [06:15] (i meant *I've* never heard of ARP, sorry) [06:15] That's a terrible thing to call it, but perhaps that's what it is. [06:15] Try it. [06:15] ok.. let me get the modem's MAC [06:15] err [06:15] NO! [06:15] the ROUTER's man [06:15] MAC [06:15] Router [06:15] :p [06:16] The router's *WAN* port's MAC address. [06:16] Very important that part. [06:17] If you give it the wrong MAC address, it can't do its job. [06:17] would the MAC address in question be printed on the bottom of the router perchance? [06:18] there is a MAC printed on there [06:18] just one? Eww. Okay, try it. [06:18] Give it an IP of 192.168.1.128 [06:18] ...then you'll know if it worked. [06:19] so I should plug the router back into the modem beforehand, eh? [06:19] I would set up the modem, switch everything off, reconnect the router to the modem and then power up modem, router and desktop PC in that order. [06:20] wait about ten seconds between each device. [06:20] ...perhaps longer. [06:21] (have to give each device time to boot and configure itself) [06:21] I hope this works. I have to go to bed. [06:22] I'm an hour overdue. [06:23] ok [06:23] sweeeeeeeet [06:23] it works [06:24] thank you so very much :D [06:24] Good. I've done something similar at two other sites. [06:24] ...three, I forgot about one. [06:24] can you briefly tell me what the DMZ does? [06:25] i hate to keep you from bed. It's my next stop as well [06:25] i have to work in 3 hours [06:26] It's a deliberately unsecure host that's theoretically in a space between your Internet and your LAN. Think of it as a festering wound waiting to infect all your machines. [06:27] hrm [06:27] ok [06:27] i'll ponder on that for a bit [06:27] well, thank you so much for the assistance [06:27] i appreciate it [06:28] I am headed to bed as well [06:28] Least I can do for another Xubuntu person [06:28] Sleep well. [06:28] you too [06:36] Goodnight everyone [06:56] I've setup two keyboard layouts, but I can't figure out how to setup the switcher for them? [07:45] morning :) [09:43] Good morning [09:45] Is anyone familiar with the "Listen" media player? Does it support playing audio from remote mt-daapd servers? I can't find the option anywhere... [09:51] I'm not sure. There might be a plugin for it. [09:51] If not, I think rhytmbox does [09:55] cody-somerville: I can't find anything within the interface about plugins, I only ask as it was on the default install of Xubuntu. I'll drop rhythmbox on there, I know that supports it as I use it on my Ubuntu installs. [09:55] I'm surprised there isn't any form of community around the project - No IRC, forum, mailing list etc. [09:57] KrisWillis, http://projects.gnome.org/rhythmbox/feedback.html [09:58] ablomen: I meant "Listen" had no obvious community [09:58] oh sorry, nvm then :) === bac_afk is now known as bac [10:45] hey guys! [10:46] i want to run an nxserver on an xubtunu machine, everthing works except the desktop loading [10:47] i also tried the custon setting: startxfce4 [10:48] with startxfce4 there is no error but there are just two windows with the "startmenu" and the "taskmenu" [10:50] (the two windows are shown on the client) === bac` is now known as bac === bac` is now known as bac [16:19] <_Pete_> Hello, I'm having wierd audioproblem: If I play movie with DTS sounds then sound comes ok from my ampfilier but if the sound source is "normal" like mp3 then there's no sound. I'm using kaffeine to test, soundcard is emu10k based and using digital connection betweem card and ampfilier [16:20] <_Pete_> earilier everything worked perfect but after some upgrade and reboot started behave like this [16:42] lo folks [16:47] there we go [16:54] has anyone installed windowmaker in xubuntu by any chance? [16:55] yes [16:55] !anybody [16:55] A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? [16:56] TheSheep: any problems? [16:56] Also, that was my question :p [16:56] no, thanks for your concerns, I'm fine [16:56] no, i meant was there any problems with the install. [16:56] windowmaker doesn't really have anything to break in it [16:57] i've never used it, just heard good things from a friend of mine [16:57]