[00:00] <lex79> ahahah :)
[01:46] <maco> who suggested disconnected imap?
[01:46] <maco> to make kmail stop crashing?
[01:50] <ryanakca> Can someone take the new wiki theme for a test run please? It works fine here, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work there :) http://wiki.ryanak.ca/kubuntu/
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> ryanakca: The last modified text at the bottom is hard to read for me
[01:55] <JontheEchidna> Looks great otherwise
[01:55] <ScottK> maco: I think approximately everyone who's used Kmail with imap.
[01:55] <ScottK> (not me or JontheEchidna).
[01:56] <maco> heh
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> :p
[01:56] <maco> well im wondering if its normal that kmail decides to mark all the read messages as unread every danged time it syncs
[01:56]  * ScottK finds it normal for imap connections to do weird things.
[01:57]  * ScottK tries imap every now and then and then scurries back to nice, safe, comfortable pop3.
[01:57] <ScottK> Tonio_ was one that suggested it.
[02:00] <Tonio_> maco: kmail4 + imap works pretty well
[02:00] <Tonio_> maco: but imap disconnected indeed works a lot better...
[02:00] <maco> kmail4 + imap = crash on delete
[02:00] <maco> kmail4+dimap = hey i already read that! stop marking it unread!
[02:00] <nhandler> ryanakca: The actual content section is very small compared to the current wiki theme
[02:04] <cernui> Kubuntu logo seems to be in low res
[02:10] <ryanakca> nhandler: *nod*
[02:10] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: Made it darker (same color as the date for articles on kubuntu.org), better?
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> ryanakca: much better
[02:11] <nhandler> ryanakca: That is a lot better and easier to read imo
[02:12] <ryanakca> nhandler: Which? The smaller? Or the wider?
[02:12] <ryanakca> Or you talkin about the date? :)
[02:12] <ryanakca> s/talkin/talking/
[02:14] <nhandler> ryanakca: I was talking about the date
[02:14] <ryanakca> Ah, ok :)
[02:15] <nhandler> I still think the content area should be bigger ;)
[02:20] <ryanakca> nhandler: *nod*, I'll ask seele how wide the max-width should be :)
[02:21] <nhandler> :)
[02:57] <maco> Tonio_: do your messages get marked as unread in kmail even after you've read them?
[02:57] <Tonio_> maco: nope... never happened
[03:14] <ScottK> One thing about IMAP is that many issues are IMAP server implementation specifiy.
[03:14] <ScottK> The IMAP specs are complex and vague enough that there's a lot of variations in how stuff works.
[03:15] <ScottK> If I were to guess, the IMAP servers at your providers are running different IMAP servers and so you see different behavior.
[04:23] <nixternal> wow, whoever worked KDEPIM into submission, great job!
[04:23] <nixternal> I set it up for GMAIL and my funky folders, disconnected IMAP, and whoa it did everything fast
[04:24] <nixternal> only downfall right now for Kontact, still doesn't have native Google Calendar support
[04:25] <ScottK> Which would be handy in the project since we're now using Google Calendar.
[04:25] <nixternal> seems I have to find out why KOrganizer keeps popping up an error about a file not existing anymore
[04:26] <nixternal> I tried to setup a gcal sync and it didn't work like I wanted to
[04:26] <nixternal> so I removed it and now korganizer keeps complaining that file isn't there, but there isn't even a calendar object using it anymore
[04:26] <nixternal> oh man, these screen profiles have to go away on the server
[04:30] <nixternal> ahh, so much better
[08:19]  * a|wen hugs apachelogger, vorian, Quintasan, JontheEchidna, Tonio_, Riddell, Lure, ScottK ... and goes for the new motu page + sponsors queue
[08:25]  * Quintasan hugs a|wen back
[09:45]  * Lure hugs a|wen back 
[12:46] <siekacz> hi
[12:49] <Quintasan> \o
[13:44] <Quintasan> Anyone up for Raptor Menu testing?
[17:09] <DaSkreech> What should I install for debug ofplasma in KDE 4.2.1?
[17:09] <DaSkreech> kdelibs-dbg is enough?
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> kdebase-workspace-dbg would be needed to
[17:10] <DaSkreech> ok
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> and if it's a folderview-related crash you'd want kdebase-dbg
[17:10] <DaSkreech> I don't know what it is
[17:10] <DaSkreech> it crashes as soon as it starts
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> could be bug 338205
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> Which I should probably fix soon
[17:15] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: the error is Unrecognized character: /
[17:16] <DaSkreech> And redirecting either stdout or stderr doesn't catch it
[17:17] <smarter> DaSkreech: does it work if you remove plasma rc files?
[17:18] <neversfelde> mhh, I cannot change fontsize of firefox with the ne qt-curve gtk style. Is this a known problem?
[17:18] <DaSkreech> smarter: it works for slightly longer then crashes again same error
[17:18] <DaSkreech> let me edit the new plasma-applets to be more dumb
[17:18] <smarter> strange
[17:18] <DaSkreech> Yah
[17:19] <DaSkreech> Oh it doesn't exist
[17:30] <jperl> a|wen: one question: is your kile 2.1 package still available somewhere? I can't find/get it
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> DaSkreech: That's not the error causing the crash, that happens all the time
[17:36] <DaSkreech> hmm never noticed before
[17:36] <DaSkreech> http://pastebin.com/m7c552eea
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, that's the bug I mentioned earlier
[17:38] <DaSkreech> It's Kubuntu specific ?
[17:39] <DaSkreech> What happened?
[17:39] <DaSkreech> I had plasma working fine and then this started
[17:39] <DaSkreech>  I didnt update or anything unless ubuntu intalled them silently
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> Nah, not Kubuntu specific
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> Did you change monitor resolution recently?
[17:40] <DaSkreech> Yeah just noticed
[17:40] <DaSkreech> Nope
[17:40] <DaSkreech> Though
[17:40] <DaSkreech> My fonts look nicer
[17:41] <DaSkreech> this happened right after an X crash now that you mention it
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> I'll get to applying the patch in a bit, but I need to do some other things first
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> Then I'll need to find a sponsor for the upload
[17:41] <DaSkreech> Sure let me play round in systemsettings
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> Apparently if you remove the Geometry related lines in plasmarc (not plasma-appletsrc) it won't crash
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> Though I haven't had this bug personally
[17:50] <DaSkreech> ok
[17:50] <DaSkreech> lets try that
[17:51] <yao_ziyuan> oxygen-cursor-theme-extra is so neat! i suggest making it installed by default
[17:52] <Tm_T> how useful
[17:53] <DaSkreech> Nope still crashes
[17:59] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: Why would removing the rc files not autodetect the geometry?
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> Dunno
[18:11]  * JontheEchidna has time to incorporate the patch now, though
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: Thx for making the changes for qtcurve in -workspace
[18:16] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: np :) I just did properly in kdebase, kds and also the seeds
[18:17] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: everything should be in the repos toonight :)
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> Oh, so now my seed branch doesn't need merging
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> Great!
[18:17] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I also managed the transition, which you kds changes wouldn't (that's why I renamed and deleted the old file)
[18:18] <Tonio_> otherwise with startkde, the .gtk-kde4 wouldn't be updated :)
[18:18] <JontheEchidna> Good thinking
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> Anyways, I will have a kdebase-workspace crash-on-startup fix that will need sponsored in a bit
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> After I testbuild it in a ppa
[18:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'll sponsor, just ping me :)
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> Ok, thanks in advance
[18:20] <Tonio_> yw :)
[18:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: the more we replace packages, the more I am concerned with the upgrade manager
[18:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't we consider removing adept, knetworkmanager and gtk-qt-engines ?
[18:27] <Tonio_> adept concerns me especially, since people can miss the new kpackagekit and continue using adept
[18:28] <Tonio_> Lure: just saw your comments on k3b.... so you have a hang at the end of the burning process ? sounds bad :/
[18:29]  * JontheEchidna takes the dog outside while kdebase-workspace builds in his ppa
[18:36] <Lure> Tonio_: yes, burn of Kubuntu ISO to DVD-RW. I had to kill -9, but image was burned OK (could boot from it)
[18:36] <Tonio_> Lure: that sounds pretty hard to fix.... maybe we should connect to trueg to get that done in time for beta
[18:37] <Lure> Tonio_: will test a bit more next week - this was just first try
[18:38] <Tonio_> Lure: oki ;)
[18:38] <Tonio_> Lure: thanks for the help on that point
[18:38] <Lure> Tonio_: it may be USB related (my new laptop does not have DVD at all)
[18:49] <ryanakca> [repeat] Could those who haven't take the new wiki theme for a test run please? It works fine here, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work elsewheres. :) http://wiki.ryanak.ca/kubuntu/
[18:50] <Quintasan> ryanakca: works here :) It's very nice
[18:52] <ryanakca> Quintasan: *nod*, thanks
[18:54] <Tm_T> ryanakca: let me crush it for you (;)
[18:54] <smarter> ryanakca: seems to work well with Arora(and Qt 4.5.0)
[18:54] <smarter> but I still hate fixed-width themes :p
[18:58] <ryanakca> smarter: ... it isn't fixed-width?
[18:58] <smarter> it is here
[18:59] <ryanakca> smarter: It has a max-width... but... dunno why it would be fixed-width for you and fluid here... try resizing the window?
[19:00] <smarter> ryanakca: oh, no you're right, when I say fixed width I mean max width
[19:00] <ryanakca> ah, :)
[19:00] <smarter> because, even if the background gradiant is nice, wasting 40% of my screen pixels to display it is really not worth it imho :p
[19:00] <Tm_T> indeed
[19:05] <ScottK> Tonio_: For adept as long as we have update manager remove it in favor of kpackagekit, I think it doesn't hurt to have it still around.
[19:06] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum, that's just what I said, should update manager remove it ? :)
[19:06]  * ryanakca scratches his head and wonders about the usability / readability side... aka, 70 to 80 characters per line.
[19:06] <ScottK> Tonio_: OK.  I misread then.  I thought you were talking about removal from the archive.
[19:06] <Tonio_> ScottK: I agree we shouldn't have conflicts/replacements to get it removed
[19:07] <ScottK> Tonio_: IIRC Riddell spoke in favor of this the other day.  I'd suggest file a bug against update-manager.
[19:07] <Tonio_> ScottK: but we have to ensure an upgrade will drop the elements we wanted droped from the default distro
[19:07] <ScottK> Yes.  IIRC Riddell said we did that with Guidanced Power Manager already.
[19:07] <ScottK> So this is just more of the same.
[19:08] <Tonio_> ScottK: yep, and the same with gtk-qt-engines now :)
[19:08] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:08] <Tonio_> and knetworkmanager of course...
[19:08] <ScottK> Yep.
[19:08] <Tonio_> I really like qtcurve it really gives gtk apps a nice look
[19:08] <ScottK> That one I think we should leave on the dvd though, just in case.
[19:09] <Tonio_> and doesn't have bugs in it like gtk-qt-shit....
[19:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: imho having both the plasmoid and knetworkmanager talking to networkmanager at the same time can be pretty dangerous....
[19:10] <Tonio_> ScottK: I suspect this can end in strange behavior since they don't use the same api to communicate with the backend...
[19:10] <ScottK> Which is why I'd never cause KNetworkManager to be installed automatically.
[19:10] <Tonio_> ScottK: yeah but what for the people having it installed and started by kdeinit ?
[19:10] <Tonio_> ScottK: even droping the autostart desktop file isn't enough for them
[19:11] <ScottK> Maybe have them conflict then?
[19:11] <Tonio_> and I would bet the people reporting the plasmoid to not work properly have knetworkmanager started...
[19:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: well I suspect they should conflict, I'm not surein fact...
[19:11] <ScottK> There's lots of hardware out there and no way it all gets tested before release.
[19:11] <Tonio_> theorically they shouldnt conflict...
[19:12] <Tonio_> ScottK: conflict means people can't have both installed at the same time....
[19:12] <ScottK> I worry about some corner case and someone can't install Kubuntu because the applet doesn't work for them.
[19:12] <Tonio_> I would prefer the update manager to remove it, and people beeing able to install it without any conflict with the plasmoid if needed
[19:12] <ScottK> Tonio_: Isn't that what you said you wanted?
[19:12] <Tonio_> ScottK: well those people should better use gnome nm-applet
[19:12] <ScottK> OK
[19:13] <ScottK> Tonio_: Yes, but we don't want to ship that on our install media.
[19:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: our current knm isn't reported to be fully working with 0.7 and is unmaintained
[19:13] <ScottK> Works fine here.
[19:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum oki
[19:13] <Tonio_> well keep it on the dvd sounds sane waiting for karmik
[19:14] <Tonio_> but remove it during the update makes sense, imho
[19:14] <Tonio_> can be considered intrusive, but imho that's an "invitation" for our users to use new components
[19:14] <ScottK> For stuff like getting your network working I think we should be conservative and not completely remove one thing in favor of another, but deprecate one and then remove it the following release.
[19:14] <Tonio_> so many people just didn't figure out the new powerdevil applet just because they had guidance installed
[19:14] <ScottK> Providing our default config by default is reasonable.
[19:15] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:15] <Tonio_> guidance missing, they would have search the reason and figure out the plasmoid I suspect
[19:15] <Tonio_> especially since the release announcement mentions it
[19:15] <ScottK> We do need to figure out how to put the battery widget in the tray for laptops.
[19:15] <Tonio_> true, and only showing for laptops....
[19:16] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: I think this cannot be done before 4.3 right ?
[19:16] <ScottK> I think if that's missing people think they have no power manager.
[19:16] <ScottK> Dunno.
[19:16] <Tonio_> afaik systray plasmoid support will be fully working for 4.3 not with 4.2
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, they're hashing out a new system tray spec that will make it possible for plasmoids to become systray objects
[19:17] <Tonio_> but yeah, both powerdevil and networkmanager plasma-widgets should be in the tray, not in the bar, imho
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> but that won't be done until 4.3 at least :(
[19:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: ho something I'd like to see fixed is a cursor bug
[19:17] <ScottK> But in the bar is better than nothing.
[19:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: I think it is a kde upstream bug nobody figured out...
[19:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: have you seen the cursor when droping an icon in dolphin, or a mail in kmail ?
[19:18] <Tonio_> it goes back to X default cursor, which is ugly
[19:18] <ScottK> I haven't noticed.
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> We have a bug for that (tm)
[19:18] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: which ?
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> hmm, where did it go...
[19:19]  * Tonio_ JontheEchidna Mr kubuntu bugs database...
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> :P
[19:19] <Tonio_> :)
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> bug 280113
[19:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I think it's upstream btw
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> yeah, definitely
[19:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and being there since 4.0....
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> yeah :(
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> it's basically a bug with the cursor theme not providing an icon for one of the gazillion possible X icon codes
[19:21] <ScottK> KNetworkManager is just in the dvd seed now, so that's good.
[19:21] <JontheEchidna> s/icon/cursor
[19:21] <Tonio_> ScottK: yup :)
[19:21] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I can't understand how can this one still be there for more than a year.... :)
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> yell at ruphy :P
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> kindly of course
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> in the "I"ll buy you a beverage the next time we meet" tone of voice
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> ;-)
[19:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: it's probably a typo error on the cursor icon to use in kdelibs somewhere....
[19:23] <ScottK> So I've been having some odd hangs that I think are due to IO saturation.  So I have iotop running.
[19:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but that's not easy to find out
[19:23] <ScottK> Of course having iotop running so far appears to stop the problem from happening.
[19:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: here is my today's mission : find this out......
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: Yeah, the X11 cursor naming scheme is insane...
[19:24] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: unfortunatelly....
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> oh noes! I'm missing cursor 12AD2432332FEC12
[19:24] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but even if I regularly fail at simple patching tasks, I used to suceed in some more complicated than this....
[19:24] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'll try to find it....
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> ^.^
[19:25] <ScottK> Is there a schedule for KDE 4.2.2 yet?
[19:25] <Tonio_> yep I think it is planned for the second week of april...
[19:25]  * JontheEchidna thinks he should fix this while he's patching kdebase-workspace: bug 259181
[19:25] <JontheEchidna> now that upstream committed the fix I feel more easy about it
[19:26] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I don't experience that bug....
[19:26] <ScottK> I wonder if we can squeeze it in before release or not?
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: maybe they backported the fix to the 4.2 branch?
[19:27] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: possible... I don't know
[19:27]  * JontheEchidna investigates
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> Nope, not backported
[19:41] <jjesse> question: did an install of the altnerate cd of alpha6 and after logging in i get no desktop display on my VM
[19:41] <jjesse> any help?
[19:42] <jjesse> the "background" is still the same as the login background, however i can run applications from krunner (alt+f2)
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: maybe you could run konsole from krunner then try running plasma?
[19:42] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: just type plasma?
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[19:43] <jjesse> hrmm ok, son waking up not happy brb
[19:48] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/131245
[19:49] <JontheEchidna> Do you get a crash window?
[19:49] <JontheEchidna> + is it possible to install kdebase-workspace-dbg in the vm and get a backtrace?
[19:51] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hum strange that it works for me then.... maybe I'm just lucky with being 1440x900 :)
[19:52] <jjesse> sure could try
[19:52] <jjesse> i did not get a crash windo
[19:53] <Gon> how can I add gwenview addons?
[19:54] <Tonio_> Gon: the plugins ? install kipi-plugins package....
[19:54] <Gon> kipi-plugins break package tree
[19:55] <Gon> Se instalarán los siguientes paquetes extras:
[19:55] <Gon>   kooka libkdcraw3 libkexiv2-3 libkipi-common libkipi0 libkscan1 libmpg123-0 mpg123 ocrad
[19:55] <Lure_> Gon: how?
[19:55] <Gon> Los siguientes paquetes se ELIMINARÁN:
[19:55] <Gon>   gwenview kdeplasma-addons libkexiv2-7 libkipi6
[19:55] <Lure_> oh, kde3
[19:55] <Gon> no... I using 8.10
[19:55] <Tonio_> Gon: you're using intrepid right ?
[19:55] <Gon> KDE 4.2.1
[19:56] <Gon> I'm using Intrepid
[19:56] <Gon> :B
[19:56] <Lure_> Gon: you should use digikam-experimental repository
[19:56] <Lure_> Gon: it has KDE4 version of kipi-plugins
[19:56] <Gon> ok,
[19:56] <Tonio_> Gon: well known problem of intrepid, most jaunty complementary packages are missing....
[19:56] <Gon> D:
[19:56] <Tonio_> Gon: also you can wait a little bit and get jaunty, or even get jaunty now.... it'll work a lot better anyway..
[19:56] <Lure_> Gon: https://edge.launchpad.net/~digikam-experimental/+archive/ppa
[19:57] <Gon> thanks, I will try this ...
[19:57] <Lure_> Gon: but I agree with Tonio_, Jaunty is so near Beta that you may want to consider
[19:57] <Tonio_> Lure_: I'm conconered about how fucked up will be people computer after going from intrepid + 10 ppas to jaunty......
[19:57] <Tonio_> concerned
[19:58] <Lure_> Tonio_: should not be an issue if these packages are just backports with proper version numbers
[19:58] <Lure_> Tonio_: but I agree it is hard to control
[19:58] <Tonio_> Lure_: fortunatelly, this situation where 50% of the packages are for kde3 and 50% for kde4 will not affect any release after jaunty
[19:58] <Tonio_> but intrepid got so many people in front of so many problems....
[19:59] <Tonio_> I know jaunty will be a good release of kubuntu, but how many people did we lost in the process ? ;)
[19:59] <Tonio_> hard to say, but if I were a standard kubuntu user, I would have gone for sure...
[19:59] <Tonio_> we should have never officially released intrepid.... really
[20:00] <Tonio_> just publish isos with a hudge warning would have been a lot bettern and professionnal
[20:00] <Tonio_> s/bettern/better
[20:01] <Tonio_> Lure_: as a user I would prefer to read "better stay with kde3 for now and let us time to properly integrate it", than "you can go" and experience 30 bugs a day....
[20:01] <Tonio_> really I'm not happy when I see the result....
[20:02]  * ScottK thought Intrepid was a little rough, but we warned people OK.
[20:02] <Gon> thanks ;D I'm installing now...
[20:02] <Tonio_> ScottK: well... we warned, but afaics, not enough....
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> Plus the digikam issue was caused by official backports
[20:03] <Tonio_> ScottK: not offically releasing would have been more clear imho :)
[20:03] <Gon> In the next beta release i going to upgrade to JJ
[20:03] <ScottK> We ought to backport digikam then.
[20:03] <Tonio_> ScottK: so many people at work (not all geeks) got bored without even understanding it was  not finished work...
[20:03] <Lure_> ScottK: final release is this weekend, so we can backport that version next week
[20:04] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's not your fault or mine anyway, no one to blame :)
[20:04] <ScottK> Excellent.
[20:04] <Tonio_> I just hope in the future, we would have the courage to take such a hard decision, and publically announce that for sanity, we are discarding a release, officially
[20:04]  * ScottK likes it better than Hardy with totally broken X integration.
[20:04]  * Lure_ needs to merge with debian tommorow
[20:05] <Tonio_> and we are just publishing isos so that "intrepid" users can test and help
[20:05] <Tonio_> ScottK: bah hardy works at least...
[20:05] <Tonio_> but yeah, xorg is better with intrepid (maybe the only better thing)
[20:05] <JontheEchidna> intrepid's not that bad, it works
[20:05] <JontheEchidna> aside from bluetooth and translations
[20:05] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'm rude with intrepid, true that, but well.... just my opinion :)
[20:06] <ScottK> I encounter limitations, not broken stuff
[20:06] <ScottK> bluetooth and translations aside...
[20:06]  * apachelogger is wondering if topic is intrepid miscommunication all day long, ever day
[20:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: yeah, I should stop with this, you're right....
[20:06] <apachelogger> *nod* :P
[20:06] <JontheEchidna> \o apachelogger
[20:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I just have the feeling that most people consider "not that a big deal.... just little issue"
[20:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and if for any reason the same situation happens, we would do the same error :)
[20:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: experience gaining is fine
[20:07] <apachelogger> there is a 90% chance that we will
[20:07] <apachelogger> or rather they
[20:07]  * Tonio_ stops now for real
[20:07] <maco> Tonio_: fwiw, i didnt use intrepid even as a gnome user
[20:08] <Tonio_> maco: that's another story, but yeah, I agree too :)
[20:08] <apachelogger> if this happens again, we will most likely work on another project or have dropped out of floss
[20:08] <ScottK> Actually most of the Intrepid problems I have are kernel related.
[20:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I can see ubuntu reputation going down for a moment especially because of this kind of errors...
[20:09] <maco> ScottK: which is why i didnt use it.
[20:09] <apachelogger> talking about kernel ... for some reason the .28 is causing ubernice performance issues with 3d stuff here
[20:09] <apachelogger> the .27-rt one works fine
[20:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger: those are so simple to avoid.... 10 lines on a web page can avoid it.... so stupid....
[20:09] <Tonio_> it's like when at work we are forced to release something not ready, because the client expects....
[20:09] <apachelogger> we were not forced
[20:09] <apachelogger> we released it
[20:10] <Tonio_> it's so much better to place a phone call, be honnest and announce there is delay....
[20:10] <apachelogger> because it was a good product
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: kdebase-workspace built in my PPA, so I pushed the revisions to bzr
[20:10] <apachelogger> translations and bluetooh aside
[20:10] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: great, thanks :)
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> :)
[20:10] <Tonio_> apachelogger: let's end once and for all :) I promiss....
[20:10]  * apachelogger hopes so :P
[20:11] <jjesse> wow so what's this big discussion about?  is jaunty realy that bad?
[20:11] <claydoh_> +1
[20:11] <maco> by the way, anyone noticing that suspending in kubuntu sometimes works out fine and sometimes results in resuming at kdm instead of on the desktop where you suspended?
[20:11] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: intrepid
[20:12] <Quintasan> The worst thing in jaunty (for me)  is the ext4 crashes @_@
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: btw your crash has a good chance at being fixed next kdebsae-workspace upload
[20:12] <jjesse> so intrepid is the problem?
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: unfortunately I think plasma restarts itself with the --nocrashhander flag after it has crashed, which is stupid and dumb
[20:12]  * ScottK notes ext4 and KDE or Gnome aren't a recpie for reliability.
[20:12] <jjesse> that is
[20:13] <apachelogger> maco: not in jaunty anyway
[20:14] <apachelogger> might be X/driver related though ... i.e. X is going down and kdm restarts it leaving you at the login screen
[20:15] <maco> right...thats what im thinking
[20:15] <JontheEchidna> I have been having X restarts when switching users lately
[20:15] <JontheEchidna> Tis annoying
[20:15] <maco> weird though. before it only happend if i had Kwin compositing and UXA enabled
[20:15] <maco> i have UXA disabled and compositing disabled, and it's still happening
[20:15] <maco> (like, before, if i turned off compositing before suspend, it wouldn't crash)
[20:18] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: with the dbg packaged installed tried plasma again pastebin.ubuntu.com/131264
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: unforunately the dbg packages only help with backtraces :(
[20:18] <jjesse> ah ok
[20:19] <jjesse> when will the new package be able to be installed?
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> the new kdebase-workspace?
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_ is sponsoring it right now I think, then it may take an hour or two from there
[20:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: let's go for upload :)
[20:20] <JontheEchidna> :)
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> Apport crash detection gets turned off for final releases, yeah?
[20:25] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: uploaded
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> (I know it still does dpkg failure detection)
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: Great
[20:27] <maco> JontheEchidna: yes, believe so
[20:27]  * JontheEchidna is just wondering how bad it will be if bug 317712 and bug 317271 don't get fixed before final release
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> each have like 50 dupes
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> but it only crashes a little-used background daemon so it shouldn't really have any negative affects
[20:28] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: 317712 still affects you?
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> I dunno. I turned off apport ages ago :P
[20:29] <Quintasan> lol, maybe thats why I dont recive crash reports :D
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> but we're still getting tons of reports for 317271
[20:30] <Quintasan> I think fsrunner should be instaled by default, the strigi + nepomuk doesnt work for me :/
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> what's fsrunner? I think I saw that in my kde-look feed but I never investigated
[20:31] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: It's an addon for KRunner that indexes the files from the directories you set up and you can access indexed files using krunner
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> cool, it's like nepomuk + strigi but without the redland fail
[20:32] <Quintasan> yup
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> or sesame-"I loves me some java" fail
[20:32] <Quintasan> Want to try it?
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> or virtuoso "my backend is KDE 4.3 material" fail
[20:33] <maco> i havent seen a nepomuk crash on login in at least 3 weeks
[20:33] <Quintasan> maco: do you have apport turned on? :D
[20:33] <maco> yes
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> I turned off apport back in Intrepid when it started superseeding the KDE crash handler
[20:34] <maco> well, i didnt explicitly turnit off
[20:34] <Lure_> JontheEchidna: it crashes here every 2nd login or so
[20:34] <maco> though i havent seen any crashes in about 3 weeks, and i find that surprising
[20:34] <maco> ...something must be wrong with apport. it hasn't reported any of my daily kernel panics
[20:34] <Lure_> and kbluetooth4 crashes on resume :-(
[20:35] <Quintasan> I'm unable to send files to my mobile with kbluetooth so I'm not using it :<
[20:35] <Lure_> but due to apport bug it gets marked invalid, so no bug opened
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> Lure_: Oh well, since it doesn't have any adverse affects (nepomuk already refuses to use the redland backend) as long as apport is turned off for final release it won't be too huge of an embarrasment
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> Lure_: I saved one of the apport bugs from invalidation
[20:35] <Lure_> JontheEchidna: agreed
[20:36] <JontheEchidna> Lure_: do you think you could get a good backtrace for the resume bug?
[20:36] <JontheEchidna> it'd be nice if we could forward it
[20:36] <Lure_> JontheEchidna: we do not have -dbg packages, right?
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> meh, you're right
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> I wonder if the dbgsym repo has ddebs
[20:37] <Lure_> JontheEchidna: see bug 341358
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/k/kdebluetooth/
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> ^dbgsym packages
[20:41] <Lure_> JontheEchidna: no amd64?!
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> damn
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> oh: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/k/kdebluetooth/kdebluetooth-dbgsym_0.3-0ubuntu0.2_amd64.ddeb
[20:42] <Lure_> that might be it, just wrong version
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> hmm, that might be intrepid-updates
[20:42] <Lure_> will try
[21:15] <Quintasan> argh, this ext4 freezing drives me crazy
[21:32] <JontheEchidna> bug 342640 is weird
[21:34] <smarter> JontheEchidna: the joys of Rosetta :p
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> smarter: should I put an "also affects" on rosetta then?
[21:35] <apachelogger> bug report: "your product is broken"
[21:35] <smarter> JontheEchidna: can't hurt I guess
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> lol
[21:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yes, but also create ^
[21:35] <apachelogger> for every issue we have with launchpad we just open a bug report saying "your product is broken"
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> haha
[21:36] <I> ?
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> whose fault is bug 342747, and how do we fix it?
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> The patch's strings are using il8n calls, but maybe that's not enough?
[21:39] <smarter> JontheEchidna: try to find a kde-i18n chan and ask there if that string is translatable/translated? :)
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> oh, the translations were proposed but not accepted :/
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/kde4libs/+pots/kdelibs4/it/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=translate+this+application
[21:42] <Mez> I: you active in here?
[21:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug report: "your approvers are broken"
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: haven't you been trying to get amarok strings approved since before hardy?
[21:43] <smarter> "you are broken"
[21:43] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I have been trying since before I even became package dood
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> ;.;
[21:44] <ScottK> Rosetta defective by design more like.
[21:45]  * Nightrose hugs apachelogger and wispers something about neon not updating ;-)
[21:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, but that only would make one report and therefore less annoying
[21:46] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ical outdated
[21:46] <apachelogger> feel free to package it :P
[21:46] <Nightrose> :/
[21:46] <Nightrose> and amarok?
[21:47] <ScottK> Right.  I wasn't suggesting a single bug report that way, just providing context.
[21:47] <apachelogger> Nightrose: *shrug*
[21:47] <apachelogger> ScottK: i see :)
[21:48] <ibuffy> i'm guessing this isn't support channel?
[21:48] <ibuffy> i have this annoying bug
[21:48] <JontheEchidna> #kubuntu is the support channel :)
[21:54] <apachelogger> Nightrose: Conflict discovered in '/home/apachelogger/neon/root/svn/amarok-nightly/src/Amarok.h'.
[21:54] <Nightrose> ?
[21:54] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[21:54] <Nightrose> hehe
[21:55]  * apachelogger likes how he has no clue what all the strange scripts in his home/bin do
[21:55] <apachelogger> Nightrose: eventually it works again
[21:56] <Nightrose> \o/
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> Can any german doods check if bug 318503 is still in Jaunty? The correct translation was imported in rosetta, but it may have missed intrepid. (I'm not sure)
[22:14] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: Wiki looks ok here
[22:29]  * DaSkreech waves at jjesse
[22:30] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: We probably could have not had an official release if Hardy was LTS
[22:34] <DaSkreech> Quintasan: THere?
[23:20] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: I think it should be triggerable by trying to set any shortcut in KDE
[23:20] <JontheEchidna> In any app Settings -> configure shortcuts, try to set space as a shortcut
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> I think it's the "Input" module in english
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> (for systemsettings)
[23:23] <_Groo_> hi/2 all..
[23:23] <_Groo_> hey JontheEchidna
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> hi
[23:23] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: do you want the good news of bad news :d
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> bad
[23:23] <neversfelde> oh, it is still "Weltraum" :)
[23:24] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: amarok 2.1 now needs a new lib.. taglib-extras from kde svn.. one more dependency
[23:24] <ScottK> Fortunately not our worry until Karmic
[23:24] <_Groo_> does the backports policy allow adding libs?
[23:24] <ScottK> Yes.
[23:24] <ScottK> Adding is no risk, so OK.
[23:24] <_Groo_> ScottK: i just did the new package with kde 4.2 integration, gonna test it asap
[23:25] <ScottK> Is 4.1 released yet?
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: :(
[23:25] <ScottK> err 2.1
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: beta soon, no need to worry about that for a while
[23:25] <_Groo_> ScottK: nope... you can check my article about whats new :)
[23:26] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: I confirmed the bug report
[23:26] <ScottK> _Groo_: Then no worries for us until Karmic.
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: I added rosetta as being affected :D
[23:26] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ive just asked because i probably will ask you guys for tutoring it when jaunty gets out
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> _Groo_: We can definitely tutor
[23:28] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: at least is working -- Looking for dlopen in dl - found
[23:28] <_Groo_> -- Taglib found: -L/usr/lib -ltag
[23:28] <_Groo_> -- Taglib-Extras found: -L/usr/lib -ltag-extras
[23:29] <_Groo_> im building the svn since the 2.0 release.. and improving the package since..
[23:29] <_Groo_> whos responsible for the amarok 2.0 package in kubuntu?
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> no one in particular
[23:33] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ok.. so how can i help with this package (and others).
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> We keep the packaging in bzr, a revision control system similar to svn
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/ubuntu
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> you could probably just make debdiffs and either attach them to their relevant bug or pastebin them and throw the pastebin links at us
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> So, how comfortable are you with the debian packaging tools already?
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> aside from perhaps bzr
[23:36] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: im a long time getdeb conributor
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> oh, good
[23:36] <_Groo_> i do a lot of my own packages.. in getdeb most kde packages are from me..
[23:36] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: are you able to change fontsize, when using the new gtk2-engines-qtcurve
[23:36] <neversfelde> I am not sure, if it is a general bug
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: change it from where?
[23:37] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: systemsettings
[23:37] <neversfelde> is there another way?
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> using the general kde font settings or the specific GTK module?
[23:37] <neversfelde> specific GTK module
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> That's part of gtk-qt-engine, so maybe that has somethign to do with it?
[23:38] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: im just not familiar with brz.. they are all the same anyway.. since i know my way around svn/git... its one more
[23:38] <JontheEchidna> I got my fonts all good with gtk-qt-engine a while back and they still work with qtcurve, so I dunno
[23:38] <neversfelde> it worked with the old qt-curve version, if I remember right
[23:38] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: do you ppl have a newbies wiki for new contribs?
[23:38]  * JontheEchidna looks
[23:40] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: ok, you have to change it in the general kde font settings now
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> aaah
[23:40] <neversfelde> I should have thought about that :)
[23:40] <neversfelde> so no bug
[23:40] <neversfelde> thanks
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> _Groo_: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> There are probably some good tutorials
[23:41] <JontheEchidna> and the links under "Resources" look pretty good
[23:41] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ok noted.. can i presume you will be my tutor?
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> There is an "official" mentoring program that I probably wouldn't have time to play a role in, but if you have any questions just ask
[23:44] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: oka
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> Plus if you're a getdeb contributor you probably wouldn't need anything as intensive as the mentoring proram
[23:51] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: by mentoring i mean getting myself heard
[23:52] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: heard = i have new packages and you help me to get them upstream instead of ignoring me
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> I can contribute to the revu process for your packages
[23:53] <vorian> _Groo_: anyone will help you here or on #ubuntu-motu if you get stuck or have a question
[23:54] <_Groo_> vorian: ok then , i apreciate it
[23:55] <vorian> our approach is more "It takes a village" rather than one on one mentoring
[23:55] <_Groo_> vorian: noted
[23:55] <vorian> excellent