[01:12] <stgraber> LaserJock: hey, can you subscribe edubuntu-bugs to the ltspfs package ? We're already subscribed to ltsp and ldm but we're lacking ltspfs and so I missed a few bug reports :(
[01:12] <stgraber> LaserJock: btw, you and ollie are the only two admins, would it be possible to make me an admin as well ?
[02:12] <LaserJock> stgraber: on it
[02:14] <LaserJock> stgraber: I've added ltspfs but ogra will have to add you as an admin
[02:39] <stgraber> LaserJock: thanks, will poke ogra later
[12:20] <humbolt> Nubae: ??
[12:26] <humbolt> I am having trouble with your fatclient script.
[12:38] <humbolt> ogra: Is Nubae real or fiction?
[12:38] <humbolt> oh, I just fount his appearance in an IRC log. He is real.
[12:39] <humbolt> How come I never catch him here. Even though he seems Austrian also.
[14:05] <humbolt1> for some reason LTSP does not seem to be able to connect to nbdrootd
[14:06] <humbolt1> All necessary config is there, all services running, hosts.allow entries there, ...
[14:07] <humbolt1> any ideas
[14:07] <humbolt1> or is nbd not fit for xinetd?
[18:23] <humbolt1> what could be wrong, if my thin client boots up, but login does not work?
[20:04] <humbolt> anybody here for a change?
[20:06] <humbolt> LDM_DIRECTX is off by default I suppose? But does this only concern LDM or the following X session also?\
[20:07] <humbolt> same question for NETWORK_COMPRESSION, what is the default and does this concern the whole X session or just LDM?
[20:07] <humbolt> ogra: could you help me with this?
[20:08] <stgraber> by default everything goes through ssh and nothing is compressed
[20:10] <humbolt> stgraber: alright. if I have an atom client, ergo enough cpu, which settings would lead to the most responsive desktop?
[20:10] <humbolt> and the best video playback performance?
[20:11] <humbolt> stgraber: can it be that LDM_DIRECTX = false actually runs faster on my client?
[20:11] <humbolt> it felt like it
[20:11] <stgraber> LDM_DIRECTX=true
[20:11] <stgraber> no, it can't be faster with = false
[20:12] <humbolt> stgraber: ok
[20:12] <stgraber> as X in SSH is a lot slower than directly sent from the server to the client
[20:12] <humbolt> stgraber: when LDM_DIRECTX=true, do I have to enable XDMCP in gdm?
[20:12] <stgraber> no
[20:13] <humbolt> ?stgraber: so how is the connection made then, if not tunneled through ssh
[20:13] <stgraber> LTSP doesn't even need GDM on the server (unless you wantt a local session too)
[20:13] <humbolt> stgraber: really, interesting\
[20:13] <humbolt> this damn keyboard
[20:14] <humbolt> stgraber: but that only works, if not SCREEN_07=startx
[20:14] <humbolt> right?
[20:14] <humbolt> then it is an xdmcp session
[20:15] <stgraber> indeed, you'll need gdm if you want xdmcp
[20:15] <stgraber> but usually you don't want xdmcp as I'm pretty sure some things will break
[20:15] <humbolt> NETWORK_COMPRESSION does only concern the ssh tunnel, right. ergo nondirectx
[20:15] <stgraber> indeed
[20:16] <humbolt> stgraber: and is only recommended for slow connections?
[20:16] <humbolt> on by default?
[20:20] <humbolt> stgraber: up to now, I don't see no usb pendrives plugged into my client coming up on the desktop. any idea?
[20:21] <stgraber> is your user in the fuse group ?
[20:22] <humbolt> yes
[20:23] <humbolt> ok, actually I see 2 ltspfs processes on the server
[20:23] <humbolt> ok, they are there
[20:24] <humbolt> just don't show up on the desktop
[20:24] <humbolt> I probably have that deactivated
[20:24] <humbolt> is network compression on or off by default
[20:25] <stgraber> off
[20:25] <humbolt> works pretty well these days
[20:25] <humbolt> especially with an eee box as client
[20:25] <humbolt> have you ever tried nubae's fatclient setup?
[20:26] <stgraber> nope, he uses NFS and I can't use it on the kind of networks I have (several thousands thin clients)
[20:26] <humbolt> really!
[20:26] <stgraber> so I work on getting the localapps working perfectly
[20:27] <humbolt> several 1000s
[20:27] <stgraber> yes
[20:27] <humbolt> company or educational network?
[20:27] <stgraber> I have one school district with 3k thin clients, another with 1k and a few more with pre-projects or ongoing deployments
[20:27] <humbolt> where are you located?
[20:28] <stgraber> I work for a company that does LTSP deployment in school and entreprises in the canada and US
[20:28] <stgraber> we're in Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
[20:28] <humbolt> quebec, great!
[20:29] <stgraber> yep funny place, moved there 6-7 months ago (coming from Switzerland)
[20:29] <humbolt> na servas
[20:29] <humbolt> austria
[20:29] <stgraber> hehe
[20:29] <humbolt> was there for 6 month
[20:29] <humbolt> 2 years back
[20:30] <humbolt> Loved the fact, that they actually have some culture there compared to the US
[20:30] <humbolt> and why exactly is nfs so bad for this kind of setup?
[20:31] <humbolt> are we talking for home dirs or root?
[20:32] <stgraber> both, NFS just ten to destroy my networks :)
[20:32] <stgraber> We're doing centralized deployment so no server in the schools but everything in a datacenter
[20:33] <humbolt> what kind of connection from the datacenter to the schools?
[20:33] <stgraber> NBD can be compressed and doesn't trigger a read action everytime you see a file
[20:33] <stgraber> fiber, between 100MB and 10GB
[20:33] <humbolt> I see
[20:33] <stgraber> with NBD you get caching on the thin clients and that means a lot less load on the server
[20:33] <humbolt> alright
[20:34] <stgraber> with the NFS our NFS server used to have a load between 100 and 120 with 3k thin clients
[20:34] <stgraber> now the NBD has a 3-4 load when they're booting in the morning
[20:34] <humbolt> I see
[20:35] <humbolt> what are you paying for the 100mb to 10gb fiber?
[20:35] <stgraber> no idea :) my company does the thin client deployment we don't do the whole networking
[20:35] <humbolt> I see
[20:36] <stgraber> usually school districts have their own infrastructure so it just cost them a lot to install it the first time
[20:36] <stgraber> then it's their own
[20:36] <humbolt> hmm
[20:36] <humbolt> what kind of clients are you using there?
[20:37] <humbolt> old pcs or something cool?
[20:37] <stgraber> wyse thin clients (VIA based), webdt (Geode based), a few old computers and we're now working on finding a good atom base thin client
[20:38] <stgraber> we're testing the eee box and thin clients from disklessworkstation
[20:38] <stgraber> also the FX160 from DELL (don't like it, only the CPU is intel, everything else is SIS)
[20:41] <humbolt> I am just now testing the eee box. So far so good. But I actually was thinking about moving to fat clients based on this hardware.
[20:41] <humbolt> Still there are many things I am still concerned about with that.
[20:42] <humbolt> And now that you mentioned the nfs issue, there is one more
[20:43] <humbolt> am I understanding that correctly, with nbd temp files and logs written to var are stored in ram and lost on reconnect.
[20:43] <humbolt> stored in the servers or the clients ram?
[20:44] <stgraber> yes, but that's the same with NFS
[20:44] <stgraber> the difference is that NFS exports a filesystem and so the hdd cache is done by the server
[20:44] <stgraber> nbd exports a block device, so the cache is done on the thin client
[20:45] <stgraber> reducing the number of read access done by the thin client (binary called very often or permission checks)
[20:45] <humbolt> the cache. but what about newly created files
[20:45] <stgraber> newly created files are in both cases (nbd and nfs) stored in a ramfs
[20:46] <humbolt> so for a nbd based /home dir we'd need a cluster fs, so several clients can access the same blockdevice
[20:48] <stgraber> no, we'd just do the same as for localapps and mount /home using sshfs
[20:49] <humbolt> why is that better than nfs ... because fuse provides the caching?
[20:50] <stgraber> because that way anyone on the network can't access your data :)
[20:50] <humbolt> ok
[20:50] <stgraber> it's extremely easy to get access to one's data with NFS
[20:51] <stgraber> for the thin client root the main issue with NFS was the speed and CPU load on the server, for that the main issue is security
[20:51] <humbolt> I see
[20:51] <stgraber> with NFS everyone can read everyone's data without much trouble (IP spoofing in the worst case but that's easy on a LAN)
[20:51] <humbolt> How good are local apps working these days?
[20:53] <stgraber> not bad, I've my first deployment with firefox as localapp at the moment, still a few glitches when playing video (mplayer-plugin's fault) and I'll need an easy way of opening documents from the localapp firefox in a remote application on the server
[20:54] <humbolt> wouldn't a fatclient be much easier to setup and handle in the long run?
[20:54] <humbolt> and what about authentication in your domain?
[20:55] <humbolt> you do ldap or aaa?
[20:55] <humbolt> as you probably have a load balanced server env
[20:56] <stgraber> ldap
[20:57] <stgraber> fat clients would be a pain to maintain as you can't easily switch (as in on the fly) from a thin to fat client profile, updates would be a lot harder to push (basically reboot the whole network) and you'd need to let everyone on the network access the file server, ldap server, ...
[20:57] <stgraber> at the moment the LAN only has access to the application servers and the application servers have access to the rest of the network
[20:59] <humbolt> I see. So what are you using as file servers?
[21:00] <humbolt> I was going to say, what if the root fs was not an image but a real block device, but I understand the benefit of the image lies in the squashfs
[21:01] <stgraber> file servers are only used for /home on the application server, it depends on the customer but we do ncpfs (novell), cifs (novell/windows/linux) or nfs (but it's then limited to the application server and not available on the whole network)
[21:02] <humbolt> I see
[21:02] <humbolt> cifs, have not tried to mount one of these for a long time
[21:03] <humbolt> smbmount used to be buggy with codepage handling. what do you use to mount cifs nowadays, and how are foreign codepages handled. does that work finally
[21:03] <humbolt> I always had my mp3 filenames screwed up back in the days in university
[21:04] <stgraber> seems to work quite well with recent cifs (cifs module in the kernel and mount.cifs or something similar)
[21:05] <humbolt> you mount the individual home dir on login via pam or the whole thing from the fileserver to the ldm server?
[21:06] <stgraber> individually
[21:06] <stgraber> as they're often on different servers
[21:07] <humbolt> Is your company hiring?
[21:08] <stgraber> not sure, it's possible we still do (looking at the number of upcoming projects)
[21:09] <humbolt> I'll paste you my email, if you ever need more hands and brains. I am just maintaining a smaller LTSP environment at the moment, but I am doing lots of other stuff with linux professionally. Used to work for a provider.
[21:11] <humbolt> The one thing, I am having the most trouble with in my setup, is people just turning off the machine leaving running processes behind.
[21:11] <humbolt> GNOME does not really take care of that.
[21:12] <humbolt> What could I do to get this sorted?
[21:12] <stgraber> I've written a daemon for that for ltsp-cluster
[21:12] <stgraber> we can know where someone is connected and do the cleanup behind them
[21:12] <stgraber> I believe there's also a simpler tool available done by another LTSP guy
[21:13] <humbolt> I once installed an app for that
[21:13] <humbolt> Did help a bit, but did not work all time.
[21:14] <tom1> greetings.. new user here. I installed ubuntu just fine but my hard drive confg didn't come out how I wanted. Basically I have a 25gb primary partition(which is want I wanted) but the rest of my drive is not being used and I can't figure out how to access it and configure as an extended drive(The free space is missing or unmounted). Are there any disk management tools I can use to config this?
[21:14] <humbolt> Or are you using KDE?
[21:15] <humbolt> tom1: gparted
[21:15] <tom1> i need to add the app gparted?
[21:16] <humbolt> tom1: you must know yourself, I have no idea if it is installed on your system.
[21:16] <tom1> thanks for the help
[21:18] <humbolt> tom1: sudo apt-get install gparted
[21:30] <humbolt> stgraber: the gnome-watchdog is checking if gnome-panel is still running to determine if a user is not logged in anymore. Is your daemon doing the same thing?
[21:34] <humbolt> back in a sec