[00:52] <ScottK> It is.
[00:54] <vorian> i was thinking, we really should do something different for our upslash in karmic
[00:55]  * vorian has not art skillz, otherwise he would be providing a mockup or some such
[00:57] <nhandler> Weren't they working on a new xubuntu usplash?
[00:57] <vorian> who cares about mice
[00:57] <vorian> :P
[00:58] <ScottK> I think for Karmic at least we'll have kernel mode setting for Intel so we can have X during startup and do different stuff (at least with on the low probability that I understand it correctly).
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> Oh, for Karmic they were thinking of using Plymouth, which is what Fedora's using
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> or something
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> taking advantage of kernel mode setting
[01:00] <vorian> meh, i think the start up should be at least 4 minutes with a nice suse like picture
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> lol
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> Then we should use the long version of the KDE4 startup sound and play it twice!
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> so that it's even longer than the mac one!
[01:01] <vorian> AWESOME!
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt1bgsvsWms
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> ^see above
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> you know
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> we should totally do that for april fools day
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> like that one time when you turned the plasma theme to the fluffy bunny theme and did that unicorn background
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> *you guys
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> *most likely apachelogger come to think of it
[01:07] <vorian> oh sheesh
[01:07] <vorian> wait
[01:07] <vorian> Brilliant!
[01:15] <ryanakca> hehe :)
[01:15]  * ryanakca thinks he'd die of shame if that was his laptop and it was the day before exams...
[01:15] <nixternal> do not let vorian near any april fools day stuff
[01:39] <ScottK> Actually if you ever saw the Myspace page Hobbsee made (back when such things were considered mandatory in some sets) you'd know for sure she's the designer you want.
[01:39] <ScottK> I think it actually gave people vertigo.
[01:41] <nixternal> hahaha, I still have convulsions because of her myspace page
[01:42] <dtchen> i think you're still having convulsions because you copied her style!
[01:44] <nixternal> heh, some russion lady has stolen hobbsee's identity
[02:05] <ryanakca> Would it be of value to get pykde into a bzr branch under lp:~kubuntu-members/ ?
[02:12] <Riddell> ryanakca: pykde is in kdebindings
[02:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: Ah, yes, thanks :)
[02:23] <shtylman> anyone here get dmraid working with ich10r? I know its not a very common setup, but I can't get dmraid to recognize the intel bios raid metadata
[02:26] <ryanakca> Riddell: I have a question... system-settings apparently loads libpython2.5.so but should be loading libpython2.5.so.1, I should be able to find it by searching in pykde, and the code for pykde is in kdebindings, correct? However, kdebindings/debian/rules has ``DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS += ... -DPYTHON_LIBRARY=/usr/lib/libpython2.6.so''... Did you mean libpython2.6 instead of libpython2.5 or ?
[02:37] <ScottK> It should be 2.6 on Jaunty.
[03:01] <NCommander> Riddell, you around?
[03:21] <JontheEchidna> Ha, you can't install updates that install new packages in KPackageKit?
[03:21] <JontheEchidna> lulz
[03:24] <nixternal> i can't even get vbox working correctly
[03:24] <nixternal> took me forever to install alpha-6
[03:24] <nixternal> now after rebooting it comes up checking battery state on a desktop
[03:24] <nixternal> what a silly thing
[05:40] <astrobear> the default action for the middle mouse button on a tab in konqueror should be to close the tab, imho.
[05:40] <astrobear> someone please make this default in kubuntu for the sake of n00bs like myself :)
[07:49]  * jussi01 waves to sabdfl1
[07:50] <sabdfl1> hey jussi01
[08:03] <jussi01> Can someone confirm bug 333408 for me?
[08:22] <Tm_T> hi kids
[08:23]  * Tm_T really needs new pc and some money for coffee
[10:26] <ScottK> Do we have a plan for kde 4.2.2 yet?
[10:32] <Riddell> morning ScottK
[10:33] <Riddell> ScottK: no I've not looked at the timetable for that
[10:33] <davmor2> Riddell: have you done the panel yet?
[10:34] <Riddell> ScottK: it's post beta though
[10:34] <Riddell> davmor2: it's reached number two on my todo list :)
[10:34] <davmor2> \o/
[11:37] <agateau> i'm looking at bug 317271 atm, but I can't reproduce it yet (need to finish upgrading my machine first)
[11:38] <agateau> there seems to be quite a few different backtraces for it, depending on soprano version
[11:38] <agateau> can someone point me to the backtrace for the currently packaged version?
[11:39] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: ^
[11:44] <Riddell> agateau: I get a crash just by starting nepomukserver
[11:45] <Riddell> http://humboldt.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/_usr_bin_nepomukservicestub.1000.crash
[11:45] <agateau> Riddell: ok, can you pastebin the backtrace?
[11:45] <agateau> thanks
[11:45] <agateau> Riddell: mmm 403 error
[11:46] <Riddell> agateau: fixed
[11:46] <agateau> ok
[11:52] <agateau> Riddell: noob question, is there a tool to parse the base64 core dump?
[11:53] <Riddell> agateau: it should be apport-retrace
[11:53] <Riddell> but I can't get it to do must useful just now
[11:53] <agateau> so how do you work with the dump?
[11:58] <Riddell> agateau: still trying to work that out
[11:58] <Riddell> agateau: if you kill your existing nepomukserver and start a new one you don't get a crash?
[11:58] <Riddell> agateau: and are you running up to date jaunty?
[11:58] <agateau> Riddell: I am running kde trunk with sesame backend atm
[11:59] <agateau> but my machine is a Kubuntu 8.04 (/me hides)
[11:59] <agateau> I am upgrading it this afternoon
[12:01] <agateau> that's why I am asking for backtrace,
[12:01] <agateau> to do "theoretical" debugging :)
[12:05] <Riddell> agateau: there is only one stacktrace on bug 317271
[12:07]  * smarter waves
[12:07]  * JontheEchidna yawns
[12:07]  * smarter notices that actions-on-notifications still don't work on Jaunty here
[12:11] <agateau> Riddell: there is another one on bugs.kde.org
[12:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do you know how to get apport-retrace to work?
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: not really. I think you have to have every concievable package up to date to even have a small chance
[12:13] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: Thoughts about bug 344118?
[12:13] <ScottK> Riddell: OK (re 4.2.2).   I'm kind of wondering if it's post-beta or an SRU, but haven't seen the schedule.  No rush.
[12:13] <Riddell> it's the week after beta
[12:14] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: well that's the way it works, indeed... that's the way it worked with gtk-qt-engine...
[12:14] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but the reset is just within the kde session
[12:14] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I don't know if that's to be considered a bug...
[12:15] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and I can't see any better way to do...
[12:15] <JontheEchidna> I don't think it actually worked in Intrepid
[12:15] <JontheEchidna> because I turned of gtk-qt-engine for a while
[12:15] <JontheEchidna> and it never reset to on
[12:15] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: with gtk-qt-engine, the mecanism to force was the same, except you could disable within the gui...
[12:16] <JontheEchidna> ah
[12:16] <JontheEchidna> except you can't disable it within the GUI for QtCurve
[12:16] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'll try to find anything better, but at this point I can't see what else to do...
[12:17] <JontheEchidna> :)
[12:19] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: people complained about gtk-qt-engine for years, now we replace and you'll find people asking to get it back...
[12:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: as said I'll try for something better but I really think the current thing is a lot better for 95% of our users, don't you agree ?
[12:20] <JontheEchidna> what would happen if it wasn't forced? (I don't know)
[12:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: most people don't want to be able to change the gtk config within kde, they want something that does the job, and that's what qtcurve does
[12:20] <smarter> qtcurve seems nice enough
[12:20] <Tonio_> looks nice, binds the icons, the fonts....
[12:21] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I agree it's what most people would want
[12:21] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: if it wasn't forced ? well how do you set the settings then, if gtk-qt-engine isn't installed ?
[12:21] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: or maybe we have to use both....
[12:21] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we may have to force it for now...
[12:21] <Tonio_> and use gtk-qt-engine to set qtcurve ? that's a nonsense :) gtk-qtengine is unmaintained, and bloated
[12:22] <JontheEchidna> In Karmic I might look in to separating the GTK styles KCM out from gtk-qt-engine
[12:22] <smarter> and gtk-qt-engine doesn't work here for some reasons(with a fresh 8.10 install) and revert to the ugly default gtk theme :/
[12:22] <JontheEchidna> smarter: it don't depend on its shlib deps so as to not bring GTK on the CD
[12:22] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: maybe we can fork gtk-qt-engine to just set the theme, not the fonts and the icons
[12:22] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and then we can use it to just set qtcurve
[12:22] <Tonio_> that would be nice
[12:22] <JontheEchidna> yeah, but not doable for jaunty I'm afraid :(
[12:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but then people would complain  that the fonts and icons are not binded when using another gtk theme than qtcurve
[12:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and they'll post bugs again...
[12:23] <JontheEchidna> I hate gtk
[12:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: it'll never stop until gnome eventually switches to qt haha :)
[12:23] <JontheEchidna> lol
[12:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: no but I'm serious there, it's a never ending battle
[12:24] <JontheEchidna> If only the GTK people were as nice as the Qt people and could develop something like QGtkStyle
[12:24] <Tonio_> people want something that make gtk look like qt by default, but with the ability to change it, along with the fonts binding and so on...
[12:24] <Tonio_> qtcurve isn't perfect, but it's by far the best thing to do.... and if you don't like the defaults, let's install debian...
[12:24] <Tonio_> my point...
[12:25] <JontheEchidna> Agreed.
[12:25] <Tonio_> people that complain abou seemonkey in firefox ? geeks, so they are able to fix startkde not to force it.... I don't mind feeting with geeks expectances.... my mother is more important to me
[12:25] <Tonio_> and she'll appreciate qtcurve for sure :)
[12:26]  * Tonio_ even uses kde-styleqtcurve now to have something fully integrated
[12:27] <JontheEchidna> brb, I svn up'd konversation
[12:46] <claydoh> I wonder if people don't really care if gtk appl look like qt/kde or if they just don't want the gtk to look like crap in KDE :)
[12:47] <claydoh> qtcurve is nice in any case
[12:52]  * Lure is happy to see agateau in #kubuntu-devel backlog ;-)
[12:52] <agateau> :)
[12:53]  * agateau blushes
[12:59] <Lure> Riddell: thanks for pyexiv2 ack; would appreciate if you can sync exiv2 (bug 309684) when you have time
[12:59] <Lure> which I know is very limited ;-)
[13:00] <Riddell> Lure: oh sorry, I half did that, finished the sync now
[13:01] <Lure> Riddell: thanks
[13:35] <Quintasan> Wow, 260 updates
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't the notify-reboot-required wait for apt to be finished to warn ?
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: it warns in the middle of the process for me... I can imagin people reboting then, sounds bad ;)
[13:47] <Tonio_> did anyone get any news about the uds sponsorship ?
[13:48] <Riddell> if QFile.exists("/var/run/reboot-required") and QFile.exists("/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp")
[13:48] <Riddell> Tonio_: that /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp should only exist after apt has finished
[13:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: maybe it needs to check the timestamp is newer
[13:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: or check if the dpkg database is still locked ?
[13:50] <Riddell> or that
[13:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: using a loop or something ?
[13:50] <ScottK> Tonio_: I did not.
[13:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ping asac about the firefox patch toonight
[13:53]  * Riddell switches back to update-notifier-kde for new packages
[14:39] <ryanakca> The kpackagekit ``<Y> updates available: \bullet A \bullet B \bullet C'' popup only lasts half of a second... I don't see any bugs for in on LP A) Is this intended / desired behavior, if not, where would I fix it? k-d-s (Guessing from the k-d-s changelog) ?
[14:39] <agateau> rahhh... just installed Jaunty on my laptop, now if only I could get wifi to connect, I could even work
[14:39] <cumulus007> ryanakca: I know
[14:40] <cumulus007> the popup is being displayed way too short
[14:40] <ryanakca> Riddell: Do we still need to worry about it, or has it been replaced by update-notifier-kde?
[14:41] <Riddell> ryanakca: I just changed back to update-notifier-kde
[14:42] <ryanakca> Riddell: Ok. And about kdebindings, looks like it already uses python2.6 ... or was it something else you had wanted me to look at?
[14:42] <cumulus007> btw, could someone tell me how KPackageKit can update my system *without* asking for my password?
[14:43] <Riddell> ryanakca: if it uses 2.6 that's all good
[14:43] <cumulus007> does it use a daemon hich runs in root mode?
[14:44]  * ryanakca is guessing it does, since debian/rules has ``DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS += ... -DPYTHON_LIBRARY=/usr/lib/libpython2.6.so'' instead of /usr/lib/libpython2.5.so
[14:44] <Riddell> ryanakca: although it still has the problem of needed libpython2.6.so rather than libpython2.6.so.1.0
[14:44] <Riddell> cumulus007: yes
[14:44] <cumulus007> how dangerous
[14:44] <cumulus007> so every application could commit changes?
[14:45] <Riddell> policykit should ask for a password
[14:45] <ryanakca> Riddell: Does it make much difference? /usr/lib/libpython2.6.so -> libpython2.6.so.1 and /usr/lib/libpython2.6.so.1 -> libpython2.6.so.1.0
[14:45] <cumulus007> it doesn't
[14:46] <Riddell> ryanakca: /usr/lib/libpython2.6.so is from python-dev which would be nice not to have needed on the CD
[14:46] <Riddell> since it takes up extra space
[14:46] <ryanakca> cumulus007: It does here... maybe you just used another application with kdesudo (or whichever) not too long before?
[14:46] <cumulus007> ryanakca: maybe
[14:46] <cumulus007> will check that out
[14:47] <ryanakca> Riddell: OK, so, change ``DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS += ....libpython2.6.so'' to DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS +=....libpython2.6.so.1.0 ?
[14:48] <Riddell> ryanakca: no idea if that'll do it but worth a shot
[14:49] <Riddell> compile that and see if system-config-printer-kde loads without /usr/lib/libpython2.6.so installed
[14:49] <Riddell> agateau^home: wifi working?
[15:35] <_lumm> would it be possible to get a amarok 2.0.2 backport for intrepid :S
[15:35] <_lumm> how come it isnt in intrepid anyway
[15:35] <ScottK> Probably because no one backported it.
[15:35] <_lumm> i mean the normal repros not backports.
[15:36] <ScottK> Because it was released after Intrepid.
[15:36] <_lumm> it got added to the beta but not in the currently stable one ?! i dont get that. its a bugfix rls.
[15:36] <ScottK> Intrepid has Amarok 1.4.
[15:36] <_lumm> so only security updates pass intrepid?
[15:37] <_lumm> erm ok
[15:37] <ScottK> Security and major bug fixes.
[15:37] <ScottK> One of the PPAs (I've lost track which) had 2.0.1 for Intrepid, but I don't think anyone updated it.
[15:38] <agateau_> Riddell: I am still on bug 317271, I was able to reproduce it from the livecd, but can't reproduce it on my installation, is it the same for you?
[15:38] <_lumm> yep bot 2.0.1 here but its pretty a mess.
[15:39] <ScottK> Someone who's interested really ought to backport the newer one ...
[15:39] <agateau_> ScottK: it's a bit late to do so, isn't it?
[15:40] <ScottK> agateau_: Not at all.  We can backport amarok 2.0.2 into an appropriate PPA (probably kubuntu-experimental) with no trouble.  It just takes someone to prepare it.
[15:41] <ScottK> I wouldn't put it in the official backports as it drags in mysql 5.1 and my head hurts when I think about that.
[15:41] <agateau_> ScottK: I thought you were talking about Virtuoso, the new Soprano backend, which is supposed to replace Redland :)
[15:41] <ScottK> agateau: No.  Sorry.  I was on amarok.
[15:41] <ScottK> agateau: Agreed.  It's definitely too late for that.
[15:42] <agateau> ok
[15:52] <Riddell> agateau: it crashes on my installed system (although I suppose it could a different crash, I've not looked)
[15:52] <agateau> Riddell: then I need to figure out what's different between your system and mine
[15:53] <agateau> to reproduce I should just run "killall nepomukserver ; nepomukserver", that's right?
[15:53]  * ScottK was hoping agateau might look into the kpackagekit notification problem....
[15:55] <sebas> agateau: the redland backend is useless since it's far too slow anyway
[15:55] <sebas> Not sure it makes a lot of sense spending time on fixing it
[15:55] <agateau> sebas: true, but there is no alternative before jaunty is out
[15:55] <sebas> sesame2 should work better, ultimately you want the virtuoso backend for that
[15:56] <agateau> it's too late to package virtuoso
[15:56] <Riddell> sebas: sesame2 is non-free
[15:56] <sebas> disable nepomuk would IMO make more sense, or package sesame2
[15:56] <sebas> what part is non-free?
[15:56] <Riddell> the binary blob parts
[15:56] <agateau> sesame2 is packaged, it just can't be put on the livecd
[15:56] <sebas> ah
[15:56] <sebas> I'd disable nepomuk then unless sesame2 is there
[15:57] <sebas> redland is really useless
[15:57] <agateau> Riddell: i agree with sebas on redland
[15:57] <agateau> i cursed against it quite a few times when playing with Nepomuk in Gwenview
[15:57] <sebas> Besides, destopsearch / indexing on a livecd is a strange concept
[15:57] <Riddell> it's already disabled on the live CD
[15:58] <Riddell> for a newly installed system it would obviosuly be nice to have it working but maybe it can't be done
[15:58] <agateau> Riddell: would it be possible to ship without redland and enable nepomuk when one install the sesame2 backend?
[15:59] <sebas> Maybe make it  easy to install sesame2 by a wizard or something?
[15:59] <agateau> or when one backport virtuoso later
[15:59] <sebas> Much like the codecs
[15:59] <agateau> sebas: probably too late for that too, i guess
[15:59] <smarter_> it's not like Nepomuk is really useful atm
[15:59] <sebas> When is the freeze?
[15:59] <sebas> smarter_: it is, if it's properly set up
[15:59] <agateau> sebas: on thursday
[16:00] <sebas> Ow :D
[16:00] <cernui> Tonio_: have you sent patches yesterday against ferefox to use xdg_open?
[16:00] <Riddell> we could add sesame to the restricted install app, although I have a general dislike of recommending people install non-free software
[16:00] <sebas> The source for some java classes are missing?
[16:00] <smarter_> sebas: without a proper way for the user to query the database, I don't see what you can do with it, except adding stars in Dolphin :]
[16:00] <agateau> Riddell: in this case, it's either non-free or useless-unmaintained :/
[16:00] <sebas> Or is their license to restrictive?
[16:01] <sebas> smarter_: alt+f2? nepomukquery:/ ?
[16:01] <Riddell> sebas: the build system requires downloading more binary blobs
[16:01] <sebas> digikam also uses the rating
[16:01] <sebas> Riddell: and their source isn't there?
[16:01] <smarter_> sebas: doesn't seem to be installed here, isn't that stuff in playground?
[16:01] <agateau> smarter_: or use Gwenview and filter your images by tag, rating...
[16:02] <Riddell> sebas: you can't download during building on the buildds so it would need the entire build system re-written and all the dependencies (over 100) likewise
[16:02] <sebas> Riddell: so the issue is technical or license?
[16:02] <Riddell> sebas: right
[16:02] <Riddell> technical
[16:02] <smarter_> agateau: oh, that's actually the first useful thing I've heard being done with Nepomuk, cool :)
[16:02] <agateau> :)
[16:03] <sebas> With redland it won't be much fun though ...
[16:03] <smarter_> so it isn't even fast?
[16:03] <sebas> users will enable desktop search and it'll take forever to index
[16:04] <sebas> Then, searching will also take forever, plus a lot of i/o making everything else slow as well
[16:04] <Riddell> so I'm thinking we disable it by default and have the restricted installer prompt for sesame
[16:04] <smarter_> as there no way to make a desktop search for a user, it doesn't eally make a difference :p
[16:04] <sebas> smarter_: it's ok-fast with sesame2 as backend
[16:04] <agateau> Riddell: sounds wise
[16:04] <Riddell> I wonder how we disable it
[16:04] <sebas> smarter_: again ...ALT+F2, and read  above for other usages
[16:04] <agateau> eventually Virtuoso will come to save us!
[16:05] <smarter_> is virtuoso that good? :)
[16:05] <sebas> Riddell: that sounds like the best solution for now
[16:05] <smarter_> sebas: as I said, I don't seem to have the nepomukquery:/ kio installed
[16:05] <agateau> smarter: it is supposed to, at least according to Nepomuk author
[16:05] <agateau> smarter_: nepomuksearch:/ iirc
[16:06] <smarter_> oh, it works :p
[16:06] <sebas> smarter_: it's nepomuksearch, and at least here, it seems to be in kdebase
[16:06] <smarter_> but I don't see how anybody could have a clue they have to do that (putting it on Konqueror front page would maybe help?)
[16:06] <Riddell> agateau: any idea how to disable it?  is there a configuration option do you know?
[16:06] <agateau> Riddell: there are a few options available from System Settings
[16:06] <sebas> Riddell: there's a knob in systemsettings
[16:06] <sebas> agateau: :)
[16:06] <agateau> so I guess we can find out where those are stored
[16:07] <agateau> basically you can enable/disable nepomuk and enable/disable strigi
[16:07] <sebas> /home/sebas/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc
[16:07] <sebas> /home/sebas/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc
[16:08] <Riddell> agateau: fancy making those changes or are you fed up of nepomuk for today?
[16:08] <sebas> isn't it "fed up with"? :)
[16:08] <agateau> how can one get fed up of/with Nepomuk? :)
[16:09] <sebas> True :)
[16:09] <agateau> Riddell: will have a look
[16:10] <sebas> Riddell: btw, what did you end up doing with the python laptop bag in the end?
[16:11] <Riddell> sebas: I got it into the country no questions asked, it's under my desk
[16:11] <Riddell> not sure what to do with it now
[16:11] <sebas> uh, that's brave
[16:11] <Riddell> agateau: when you get the config option add it to kubuntu-default-settings bzr branch
[16:11] <sebas> I know that at Schiphol you can get into a lot of trouble for that
[16:11] <ryanakca> 0
[16:12] <Riddell> agateau: you also want to edit update-notifier-kde branch and add the sesame backend to the list of packages to install
[16:12] <sebas> Though I've never had my bags or anything checked there
[16:12] <agateau> Riddell: I will probably need your help on this (how to get those branches...)
[16:12] <Riddell> sebas: in Nigeria they even let me get on the plane with a watermelon
[16:12] <Riddell> agateau: poke me when you need help
[16:12] <sebas> hahaha weird ideea
[16:12] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[16:13] <ryanakca> agateau: to get the k-d-s branch from LP, bzr checkout lp:~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu    if I remember correctly.
[16:13] <agateau> ryanakca: ok thanks
[16:15]  * agateau also needs to teach himself bzr
[16:17]  * ryanakca thinks he should've used his PPA to build kdebindings... slooowwness ;)
[16:18] <cernui> Is Bug 290304 solved? only a file move is necesary
[16:18] <smarter__> agateau: don't miss the bzr-builddeb plugin which is really useful for simplifying package maintainences :)
[16:19] <agateau> smarter: ok
[16:19] <smarter> agateau: there's probably some docs on the wiki about it
[16:20] <ryanakca> agateau: There's http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/ too...
[16:21] <agateau> thanks guys!
[16:27] <seele> python is an illegal trade animal?
[16:29] <ScottK> agateau: If you use svn, then you can use bzr co and bzr ci just like the svn equivalents until you teach yourself the fancy dvcs branch/merge stuff.
[16:29] <agateau> ok
[16:30] <agateau> should be much of a problem I think, as I am quite used to both svn and git
[16:30] <ScottK> IME bzr is much easier to wrap your head around than git, but that may just be me.
[16:30] <agateau> let's not start a dvcs war here :)
[16:31] <ScottK> Didn't say anything about better or worse.
[16:32] <ScottK> My biggest problem with bzr is that I run into it no where outside Ubuntu and I don't have a lot of spare space in my head for an Ubuntu specific VCS.
[16:35] <Riddell> seele: pretty much any non-farm animal needs an import licence
[16:36] <agateau> ScottK: i see what you mean
[16:36] <Riddell> "bzr is much easier to wrap your head around than git" that really isn't just you ScottK
[16:36] <seele> Riddell: even if it's dead and processed?
[16:36] <Riddell> seele: I belive so
[16:36] <seele> huh
[16:43] <NCommander> ScottK, I've found bazaar outside of Ubuntu.
[16:43] <NCommander> Riddell, good morning (or afternoon)
[16:44] <Riddell> hello NCommander
[16:44] <NCommander> Riddell, how are you today?
[16:45] <Riddell> oh ca va
[16:45] <NCommander> Riddell, can you do me a favor and poke something in the NEW queue for me?
[16:46] <Riddell> I can
[16:46] <NCommander> Riddell, ecosconfig-imx please :-)?
[16:46] <NCommander> (it has a FFe)
[16:50] <Riddell> NCommander: accepted
[16:50] <NCommander> Thanks Riddell :-)
[16:52] <agateau> Riddell: if i understand correctly, I need to add nepomuk config files inside kde-rc-files/ and add a line the Makefile?
[16:52] <Riddell> agateau: yes you need to add it, the Makefile installs everything *rc so no change needed there
[16:53] <NCommander> Riddell, thanks. I think that was the first package I ever submitted on the first try that didn't get a reject :-)
[16:53] <agateau> Riddell: oh ok
[16:53] <knusperfrosch> where should kpackagekit problems/bugs be reported?
[16:54] <Riddell> NCommander: oops, clearly I should have looked closer for a problem :)
[16:54] <Riddell> knusperfrosch: if it's the update notification you don't like I've just turned that off, otherwise bugs to launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kpackagekit (or try your luck moaning here)
[16:55] <NCommander> Riddell, heh
[16:55] <Riddell> Lure: new exiv accepted, you'll make sure everything is built against it before beta freeze on thursday?
[16:55]  * ryanakca sighs at having wasted an hour and a half building amd64 packages for an i386 laptop
[16:55] <Riddell> ryanakca: oops.  that's quite hard to do though
[16:56] <knusperfrosch> nope, kpackagkit told me to report something: "The backend took too much time to process the synchronous request - you need to fork!"
[16:56] <ryanakca> Could someone with an amd64 jaunty test some kdebindings .debs please?
[16:56] <knusperfrosch> well not really verbose...
[16:57] <Riddell> ryanakca: I could
[16:58] <ryanakca> Riddell: Where shall I stick them?
[16:58] <Riddell> ryanakca: wherever I can get them
[16:58] <seele> meeting in 2 minutes?
[16:59] <seele> is it here or ubuntu-meetings?
[16:59] <Riddell> depends which is free
[17:00] <Riddell> looks like something about to begin in #ubuntu-meeting
[17:00] <seele> ok.. here it is
[17:02] <Riddell> Tonio_, Nightrose, nixternal, yuriy: council ping
[17:02] <nixternal> yo yo
[17:02] <seele> Quintasan: kb9vqf: ping
[17:02]  * Quintasan waves
[17:02]  * Nightrose waves
[17:02] <Lure> Riddell: will do for universe, will need help for main
[17:02]  * kb9vqf waves
[17:02] <seele> JontheEchidna: ping
[17:02] <Lure> Riddell: is something wrong with publisher?
[17:03] <Lure> Riddell: I see only source in archive, but no binaries for 0.18
[17:03] <Riddell> Lure: ssh, we're in a meeting (no, not that I know of)
[17:03] <Riddell> Lure: it'll appear shortly I expect
[17:03] <Nightrose> thanks for saving me from learning innovationeconomics - worst slides ever :/
[17:03] <Lure> Riddell: it is 3 hours since build
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> seele: pong
[17:03] <Riddell> Lure: it was stuck in New
[17:03]  * Lure shuts up
[17:03] <Riddell> right, meeting!
[17:03] <seele> JontheEchidna: meeting time
[17:03] <Riddell> good afternoon friends
[17:03] <Riddell> memberships first
[17:03] <Riddell> Quintasan: want to go first?
[17:04] <Quintasan> Hmm I guess I can, shall I introduce myself first?
[17:04] <Riddell> Quintasan: yes, a few sentenses on who you are and what you do in kubuntu
[17:06] <Riddell> Quintasan: ?
[17:06] <Quintasan> My name is Michał and I'm from Poland. I've done some bug fixing in kde4 packages. I'm also translating applications.
[17:06] <Riddell> Quintasan: how long have you been active in the Kubuntu community?
[17:07] <Quintasan> About one and a half month I suppose
[17:07] <Nightrose> Quintasan: how active is the Polish Kubuntu community?
[17:08] <yuriy> hi
[17:08] <Quintasan> Nightrose: sorry, I'm unable to accurate informations but we have lots of guys helping people out in #ubuntu-pl
[17:08] <Quintasan> to provide*
[17:09] <Riddell> Quintasan: is raptor at a useful stage for users?
[17:09] <Nightrose> ok
[17:09] <smarter> Quintasan: are you translating applications only on Launchpad or in upstream projects too? do you have any contact with an upstream project l10n team?
[17:09] <Quintasan> Riddell: I don't think so, there are some issues that aren't big but they are annoying.
[17:10] <Quintasan> smarter: only Launchpad applications, I don't have any contacts with upstream team's
[17:10] <Riddell> Quintasan: why do you like Kubuntu over other distros?
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> Hehe, that's always the hardest question imo :P
[17:12] <nixternal> Quintasan: do you have any examples of bugs you have fixed? what are you plans on direct Kubuntu translations?
[17:12] <Quintasan> Riddell: Community, lots of people who can help you out, for me the most important thing is to have usable desktop right after the installation, I also love new KDE so that's why I picked Kubuntu
[17:12] <Nightrose> Quintasan: what are your plans for the next months with kubuntu?
[17:13] <Quintasan> nixternal: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/kdeplasma-addons/4:4.2.0-0ubuntu3
[17:14] <Quintasan> Nightrose: I'm planning to do more packaging and fixing issues, also translating applications that are not translated or have few lines translated
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> I sponsored both his kdeplasma-addons fix and a kdebase-workspace fix for him into bzr
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> he does good work :)
[17:14] <jjesse> nixternal: i am not ignoring your email about kubuntu docs hoping to work on them tonight, in anoter airport
[17:15] <nixternal> jjesse: ahh there you are :)  ya, I knew you were on the road so I wasn't in a hurry really
[17:15] <seele> Quintasan: how long have you used kubuntu before you started contributing a month ago?
[17:15] <jjesse> nixternal: i just finished my review/update of the kubuntu book so those are next :)
[17:15] <Quintasan> seele: for 1 year
[17:16] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: Do you plan on becoming a MOTU in the long run?
[17:17] <jjesse> is there a mtg happening now that intereputred?
[17:17] <seele> jjesse: yes :)
[17:17] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: yeah, no sweat though
[17:17] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: I think yes
[17:17] <jjesse> ah :)
[17:17] <seele> Quintasan: are you a student or working?
[17:17] <JontheEchidna> Great
[17:17] <Quintasan> seele: student
[17:17] <seele> Quintasan: will graduating affect your ability to contribute to kubuntu in the future?
[17:18] <nixternal> Quintasan: can I expect that you will help translate the Kubuntu Documentation? there are only a handful of languages that get translated, and Polish hasn't been one of them...would be great to see more translations there
[17:19] <Quintasan> seele: I think no (I'm not in a university, high school). Maybe after my 18th birthday something will change but I don't think so.
[17:19] <seele> Quintasan: how old are you if i may ask
[17:19] <Quintasan> seele: 16
[17:19] <nixternal> seele: that question is against the law, now I have to report you!
[17:19] <Quintasan> nixternal: Sure :)
[17:19]  * Nightrose thinks we should end the torture now ;-)
[17:19] <Riddell> well I like what I hear from Quintasan, I think he is and will be a great contributor, but I do think 1.5 months is too short to count for the "sustained and significant" contribution we ask for membership
[17:20] <Riddell> so I'm minded to vote 0 for now and ask him to come back at the next meeting
[17:20] <nixternal> hrmm
[17:20] <seele> i would like to see a longer involvement in contributing to kubuntu
[17:20] <Riddell> other council members may disgree of course
[17:21] <seele> most of our new members have been around and contributing for many more months before considering membership
[17:21] <nixternal> I would as well, but what I am seeing thus far I really like...he has some really good contribs in this short amount of time, I think in another month with his contribs and he will be rocking
[17:21] <nixternal> I would really love to see some Kubuntu docs translating too :)
[17:22] <Riddell> Quintasan: would you be ok to come back at a future meeting?
[17:22] <yuriy> I agree with Riddell
[17:22] <Quintasan> Riddell: sure
[17:22]  * nixternal notes it is really warm here in chicago, but I am chilly for some reason
[17:22] <Riddell> Quintasan: great, keep up the contributions and you'll be sure to get in
[17:23] <nixternal> seele: 74 right now, can you beat that in DC today?
[17:23] <Nightrose> Quintasan: rock on as you do now and next time will be a charm :)
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: Yeah, no worries for next time. :)
[17:23] <seele> nixternal: hell no, it's like 45. better than the rain we had earlier
[17:23] <Riddell> kb9vqf: hi
[17:23] <Riddell> kb9vqf: able to introduce yourself?
[17:23] <kb9vqf> Yes, I am :)
[17:24] <kb9vqf> I am an electrical engineer with Raptor Engineering.  I have been using Kubuntu for about 2 years now, and have been active for the past 5 months or so proting KDE3.5 to Intrepid, and now on to Jaunty
[17:25] <kb9vqf> My role in Kubuntu could be considered keeping legacy software alive for those who want iy
[17:25] <Riddell> kb9vqf: you packaged the whole of KDE 3.5 for intrepid?
[17:26] <kb9vqf> Yes, and a lot of KDE3.5 apps as well
[17:26] <kb9vqf> And ported the whole whing to /opt/kde3
[17:26] <Nightrose> what kind of feedback did you get?
[17:26] <Riddell> kb9vqf: that must have taken ages!
[17:26] <nixternal> wow, that is pretty darn nice
[17:26] <kb9vqf> Nightrose Lots of positive feedback, from the users, and a lot of bugs as well (which I have been steadily fixing)
[17:27] <seele> kb9vqf: is that something you plan on doing for Jaunty as well?
[17:27] <kb9vqf> nixternal: thanks!
[17:27] <kb9vqf> seele: Yes
[17:27] <seele> wow
[17:27] <kb9vqf> I think KDE3.5 should be an option, right alongside KDE4, as it is almost a completely different desktop
[17:28] <Riddell> kb9vqf: when your packages first appeared I think we got a big grumpy because they overlapped the KDE 4 ones and used high epochs.  how did you find our attitude to your work?
[17:28]  * nixternal notes that he is a newb again with KDE 3.5.x
[17:28] <Nightrose> is anyone helping you with this or are you doing it on your own?
[17:28] <kb9vqf> Nightrose: Right now, all on my own, but I would like some help in the future if anyone is interested
[17:28] <yuriy> kb9vqf: how are you handling bugs and feedback?
[17:28] <kb9vqf> http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net
[17:28] <Nightrose> wow - quite some work...
[17:29] <kb9vqf> And through the Ubuntu forums...let me grab the link
[17:29] <kb9vqf> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963695
[17:29] <rgreening> kb9vqf: how would you contribute to kubuntu and the KDE4 desktop, which is the officially supported desktop?
[17:30] <nixternal> kb9vqf: are you using KDE 4 at all or do you still prefer KDE 3?
[17:30]  * Nightrose is definitely impressed to see someone not complain about not having kde 3 but actually doing something about it
[17:30] <nixternal> Nightrose: +1
[17:30] <kb9vqf> rgreening: Hmmm, not sure yet.  I have had my hands quite full with KDE3.5
[17:31] <nixternal> actually, I am seeing what kb9vqf is doing with KDE 3 and Kubuntu as a plus for a lot of people out there who don't want to switch to KDE 4 yet
[17:31] <kb9vqf> nixternal: Just KDE3.5.  I have tried to use KDE4 on several occasions, but found that my productivity went way down.  No offense against KDE4, it's just not the way I work, I guess
[17:31] <nixternal> ya, I have heard that from a ton of people, and I know quite a few who stopped using Kubuntu because of us ditching KDE 3.5 and going with PCLOS or Gentoo
[17:32] <nixternal> Personally, I think I would like to see an "Official Un-Official" Kubuntu KDE 3 PPA with your work
[17:32] <kb9vqf> nixternal +1
[17:32] <Tm_T> meeting going on?
[17:32] <Nightrose> yes I would also like to see you more integrated in the team
[17:32] <nixternal> if you watch kde-look.org and kde-apps.org, there is still probably more KDE 3 work being uploaded than KDE 4
[17:33] <Nightrose> Tm_T: yes
[17:33] <nixternal> Tm_T: yes
[17:33] <claydoh> nixternal and kb9vqf: +1 on that
[17:33] <smarter> kb9vqf: imho, you just need to get used to it
[17:33] <Tm_T> oh sorry, I'll leave you then ): ->
[17:33] <nixternal> Riddell: what do you think about having an Official Un-Official Kubuntu KDE 3 PPA?
[17:33] <smarter> kde4 isn't kde3 and vice-versa, you need some time to adapt yourself to the changes :)
[17:33] <Riddell> can do, call it kubuntu-kde3 ppa and put it on the website
[17:34] <kb9vqf> smarter: Yeah, I know.  If I did work on KDE4, the first thing I would do is learn the theming system and fix the things I don't like (blocky elements, etc.)
[17:34] <nixternal> yes, but a lot of people are not wanting to change from a good thing
[17:34] <smarter> kb9vqf: blocky elements?
[17:34] <Nightrose> kb9vqf: so your plans for the future are?
[17:34] <nixternal> kb9vqf: I think you might be able to find help with maintaining the KDE 3 side as well since a lot of people still enjoy it so much
[17:35] <kb9vqf> smarter: Well, it's what I call the "Fisher-Price look"--I'll explain a bit later :)
[17:35] <nixternal> lol, that isn't the first time I have heard that
[17:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: ok, didn't knew the meeting was here
[17:35] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: you should see themes I use then
[17:35] <kb9vqf> Nightrose: Continue porting KDE3.5 apps as Kubuntu drops them (e.g., I just finished uploading Knights)
[17:35]  * nixternal uses skulpture, the bestest theme in the world
[17:36] <Riddell> kb9vqf gets a +1 from me for lots of hard work
[17:36] <nixternal> +1 from me too, I would really like to see him run a KDE 3 team as well
[17:36] <Nightrose> +1 from me as well but I would like to see you more active here :)
[17:36] <nixternal> he has a great start with it that's for sure
[17:36] <Tonio_> +1 for me too :)
[17:37] <yuriy> +1
[17:37]  * kb9vqf promises to check in more frequently than every 3 months :)
[17:37] <Nightrose> ;-)
[17:37] <Riddell> kb9vqf: welcome to membership
[17:37] <kb9vqf> Ridell: Thanks! :)
[17:37] <nixternal> kb9vqf: I would like to see you here every minute of the day, you know...to make up for me not being here :)
[17:37] <claydoh> congrats kb9vqf !
[17:37] <Nightrose> haha
[17:37] <nixternal> congrats and welcome kb9vqf
[17:37] <Riddell> JontheEchidna has an agenda item
[17:37] <Nightrose> congrats kb9vqf
[17:37] <nixternal> btw, is kb9vqf your HAM name too?
[17:37] <kb9vqf> Yes!
[17:38] <Nightrose> oh dear... :D
[17:38] <nixternal> hahaha, man I love it when I recognize that stuff
[17:38] <Riddell> beta freeze is in two days!
[17:38] <Riddell> what needs fixing?
[17:38] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: will call you then some day (;)
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> Okay, my agenda item is basically us taking a look at what we need to do before final release
[17:38] <nixternal> string freeze is in 9 days!
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> how badly do we need to freak out?
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> :P
[17:38] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: You're a ham as well?
[17:39] <Riddell> agateau is on nepomuk
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> nice
[17:39] <Riddell> I'm looking at the panel issue
[17:39] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: not publicly, but kinda yes
[17:39] <Riddell> kdebluetooth keeps crashing, would be nice to have that fixed
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> Looking at our todo list, it looks pretty complete
[17:39] <Riddell> my main problem is corruption I get on my screen in some Qt apps, for which I blame the intel driver
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> yeah... :(
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> do you have a bug for that? I have some dupes
[17:40] <nixternal> hrmm, I am using Intel and haven't witnessed corruption
[17:40] <yuriy> Riddell, JontheEchidna corrupted text?
[17:40] <nixternal> I know I hate this new GTK Theme stuff
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: corrupted widgets
[17:41] <Riddell> yuriy: no random blocks of corruption on the screen
[17:41] <Riddell> bug 279727
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> I don't know if we'll be able to kick kdelibs4c2a off the CD though :(
[17:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: afaik, kdebluetooth needs a lot of solid fixes.... won't happen before 4.3 I guess...
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> OpenOffice isn't looking so good for KDE4 integration
[17:41] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: mm, openoffice is the blocker there
[17:41] <yuriy> can't we just remove the kde3 integration?
[17:41] <Riddell> k3b too
[17:42] <Lure> Riddell: digikam/kipi-plugins final are released - will check if we can just sync from debian - would be great to have them in beta
[17:42] <Lure> Riddell: when is beta freeze?
[17:42] <nixternal> wow, that bug screenshot is bad...never have I witnessed that and all I have is Intel
[17:42] <Riddell> yuriy: it ends up looking super ugly, and we do have space on the CD so no reason to kick it off
[17:42] <Riddell> Lure: Thursday!
[17:42] <Lure> Riddell: ok, that is plenty of time ;-)
[17:43] <JontheEchidna> Are we going to backport the sexed KCategorizedView changes from 4.3? Or should we just wait until Karmic for those?
[17:43] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I looked for those in svn a while ago but couldn't find them committed
[17:43] <JontheEchidna> (irt System Settings enhancements under jaunty setup
[17:43] <JontheEchidna> I'll mark that as postponed then
[17:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: for k3b, I've been reported it seems to work for some people and hang for others, I'll ping trueg to help us getting it in time eventually
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: dvd iso burning seems to be the only thing really broken right now
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: maybe we could upload right now and fix later...
[17:44] <davmor2> Riddell: does that mean first on your list is neposmuk
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: lots of things are broken in k3b3 due to broken ioslaves anyway...
[17:45] <Lure> Tonio_: if we fell we can make it, it is probably better to have it in for beta
[17:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: that's too high risk, I need to be able to burns disks in the mean time and it might not get fixed
[17:45] <Riddell> davmor2: agateau is looking into nepomuk
[17:45] <JontheEchidna> Bug 292098 and bug 259030 seem to be related to our default window rules
[17:45] <JontheEchidna> Do we still need those rules?
[17:45] <davmor2> Riddell: Cool :)
[17:45] <Riddell> davmor2: and I'm looking into panel.  what else if on your mental list for Kubuntu?
[17:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki I'll try to make iso burning to work... data dvd burning is working btw...
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> And how do those rules tie in to the "sane default window sizes" todo list item?
[17:46] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: mm, we got rid of those in intrepid time but they may still be around, I'll make sure to look into doing the upgrade script for that
[17:46] <davmor2> I'm just flicking through it now
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: Ok, so they're removed but they still stuck around for those who had them I gather?
[17:46] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: right
[17:47] <davmor2> the install has introduced an ugly bug but I think evand will deal with that
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> gotcha, good.
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> On the Ubiquity side of things, things are looking great!
[17:47] <Riddell> shtylman: any chance to have the partition bars not appear/disappear on ubiquity for beta?
[17:47] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: do we have a wikipage with the most important bugs to fix before the release ?
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> I think we may want to give the label mentioned in this bug wordwrap: bug 344382
[17:48] <shtylman> Riddell: yea...are you sure we wanna do that (thinks about users with many disks)?
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: nope, might not be a bad idea though
[17:48] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: not everyone has malone in mind like you, Mr database :)
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[17:48] <Riddell> shtylman: I think it should only show one disk at a time, that's what happens on the gtk one
[17:48] <shtylman> yea...I agree...I think currently it shows them all right? (that is a bug)
[17:48] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I think shtylman said the wordwrap was fixed, not sure if it's been merged/uploaded though
[17:48] <Riddell> shtylman: yes (or did last time I checked)
[17:49] <shtylman> Riddell: it is fixed but not uploaded....also, I just got my new machine up and running and have a list of bugs to tackle for ubiquity
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> I see that the todo page has System-Config-Printer-KDE improvements marked as in progress by Riddell and Arby. How goes progress?
[17:49] <Riddell> shtylman: am I right in thinking you're not a member yet?
[17:50] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: features are there, needs bugs and UI tidying
[17:50] <shtylman> I don't think I am a member
[17:50] <Riddell> shtylman: something to consider for our next meeting maybe :)
[17:50] <Riddell> how is network-manager-plasmoid working for everyone?
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> plasma-widget-network-manager is working pretty well for my simple wired, DHCP connection
[17:51] <claydoh> Riddell: works great for me
[17:51] <claydoh> wired and wireless
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> Enterprise WPA networks and hidden networks have issues, according to the bug reports
[17:51] <Lure> Riddell: does not work for hidden network (WPA-EAP)
[17:51] <davmor2> Riddell: Looks pretty much okay from there I'll have a proper play tomorrow with Kubuntu.  I'll give you a list of things that don't work then :)  But those are the 2 screamingly obvious ones at the moment, hope that helps.
[17:52] <rgreening> wired = 100%, wireless WEP = once configured, no issues. Setting up from scratch is hit and miss
[17:52] <Riddell> Lure, JontheEchidna: do you know if that's something that works with knetworkmanager?
[17:52] <rgreening> or was a week ago
[17:52] <shtylman> Riddell: k :)
[17:52] <Lure> Riddell: did not try, but I can try in next days
[17:52] <Lure> Riddell: and nm-applet too, to have complete picture
[17:53] <agateau> mmm, my first attempt at disabling nepomuk failed :/
[17:53] <agateau> the "start automatically" checkbox is unchecked, but it starts nevertheless
[17:53] <Riddell> Lure: thanks, would be uaseful to know if there's any point keeping knetworkmanager in main or no
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> I think it would be good to keep in around, but maybe in universe
[17:54] <JontheEchidna> though it probably wouldn't hurt to include it in main
[17:54] <JontheEchidna> since how are you going to install it without a network?
[17:54] <JontheEchidna> :P
[17:54] <Riddell> let's keep it on the dvd for beta
[17:55] <Riddell> if it turns out to have no advantage over the plasmoid though I don't see a point in keeping it
[17:55] <Riddell> ok I'm done, any other business?
[17:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I never got issues with plasmoid-network-manager for wep, wpa and wpa2... I didn't test for vpn and so on
[17:55] <Lure> Tonio_: wpa/wpa2 PSK is fine, WPA Enterprise is different story
[17:55] <JontheEchidna> The guest account patch. Is anyone working on it? (I don't see it as too big of an issue at all if it doesn't get done)
[17:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: knetworkmanager will not be any better anyway... but p-n-m is not finished right now
[17:55] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah I know :)
[17:56] <Tonio_> Lure: but I think that's a more general networkmanager issue right ?
[17:56] <Lure> Tonio_: I am just not sure is it hidden network or enterprise or both that is broken ;-)
[17:56] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: Tonio_ was down for that but I don't think he's had a chance to look at it
[17:56] <Lure> Tonio_: gnome users claim it works
[17:56] <Lure> Tonio_: this is why I will test all three tommorrow
[17:56] <JontheEchidna> So, how are translations coming along?
[17:57] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I'm using french just now and havn't seen any problems
[17:57] <JontheEchidna> awesome :)
[17:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah I had to discard this... time is limited...
[17:57]  * Lure need to try Slovene some time ;-)
[17:57] <Riddell> but testing by others (especially people who don't use English) welcome
[17:57] <Riddell> jockey seems to be broken
[17:57] <Riddell> will poke pitti
[17:58] <Quintasan> Polish - 4 positions in systemsettings are not translated, and KPackageKit is not translated but I submitted translation.
[17:58] <shtylman> Riddell: Imma start tackleing the bugs for ubiquity and cleaning it up some more today and into tomorrow...beside the partition bars..anything else major?
[17:58] <JontheEchidna> Things seem to be looking pretty good for 9.04 :)
[17:58] <JontheEchidna> Oh, I do have some concerns for KPackageKit
[17:59] <JontheEchidna> I get a lot of backend timeouts still
[17:59] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yup, and most of our problems right now are upstream kde issues (for once)
[17:59] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: they might get fixed with updates
[17:59] <Riddell> shtylman: when you move the mouse over he timezone map it should have a label to show what would be selected when you clicked (including the city name)
[17:59] <JontheEchidna> And if an update needs to install new packages, it will show up as "blocked" and won't upgrade
[17:59] <JontheEchidna> which is sorta important imo
[17:59] <shtylman> Riddell: yep...that too is on todo list
[17:59] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: hmm, that's not great
[18:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you notice the cursor is broken when drag and droping ? that's really ugly...
[18:00] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: let's poke glatzor about that
[18:00] <davmor2> Riddell: what's up with jockey?
[18:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: drag and dropping what?
[18:00] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: OK, there is a bug about this. So I think I'll confirm it at put it as high importance
[18:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: drag a file in dolphin and look at the cursor.
[18:00] <abc> Tonio_: there is a bug about it
[18:00] <Riddell> davmor2: hmm, what do you know, it just started working
[18:01]  * Quintasan didnt notice the cursor but util now
[18:01] <Tonio_> abc: I know, but it's here since.... kde 4.0 beta...
[18:01] <davmor2> fixed \o/
[18:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: the cursor is unthemed.  doesn't seem like a critical bug
[18:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure not, but once you've seen it, you notice it forever... :)
[18:02] <Riddell> ok, meeting over I think, we can now return to normal #kubuntu-devel chat
[18:02] <davmor2> Riddell: It does seem to stick on 0% forever and a day apparently there's not a lot they can do about it :(
[18:02] <Riddell> thanks to seele for organising the meeting
[18:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: one thing about the kcm samba thing.... it's too late for now, but we're gonna do it for karmic
[18:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: port the nautilus share thing to kde
[18:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: great
[18:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: smarter has motivation for this, me too
[18:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: we probably can discuss this in the UDS
[18:03]  * smarter_ rises out of Arora code
[18:03] <smarter_> Tonio_, Riddell: what? :)
[18:04] <Tonio_> smarter: the samba sharing thing :)
[18:04] <smarter_> oh, righto
[18:04] <shtylman> When is the beta released? so I know how best to target my efforts?
[18:04]  * Lure finally got exiv2 0.18 binaries
[18:06] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: archive freeze for beta is on thursday
[18:06] <shtylman> k, thanks
[18:06] <seele> did sponsorship come out?
[18:06] <seele> how many people do we get at UDS?
[18:06] <Riddell> nobody has reported hearing back about UDS
[18:07] <Lure> Riddell: do you have also give-back powers?
[18:07] <Riddell> Lure: I believe I might
[18:07] <Lure> Riddell: pyexiv2 need give-back
[18:07] <Quintasan> hmm, I just noticed that kcmsambaconf crashes whenever I try to save setting with ASSERT failure
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: known upstream bug
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> kde bug 166106
[18:08] <Tonio_> Quintasan: we should consider pathing to remove this from dolphin
[18:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't we drop the desktop files for that ?
[18:08] <Riddell> ryanakca: no python-kde4-dev ?
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> Oh, we may also want to remove knetworkconf. It is totally and utterly broken
[18:09] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes
[18:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: it's all broken anyway...
[18:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll do that then...
[18:09] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: mm, it shouldn't be in main anyway
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> it looks like it was run through a qt3 to qt4 tool and just left that way
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> some buttons aren't even connected to slots
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> and there are embedded custom dialogs in kdialogs
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> and the backend doesn't work at all either
[18:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: remove it from the package then if you like
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> OK
[18:12] <ryanakca> Riddell: Hmmm? from the kdebindings build? Should be, the build log shows it...
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: before you upload, I also have some stuff in kdeadmin I'm going to do
[18:12] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: go for bzr, I'll add my changes and upload :)
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> oh, samba conf is in kdenetwork, nevermind
[18:13] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hum part of it is in kdeadmin I think, but unsure for the desktop files...
[18:13] <JontheEchidna> hmm, wonder why the bug is in kdenetwork then...
[18:14] <JontheEchidna> probably just human error ;-)
[18:14] <Riddell> ryanakca: it's not in the directory
[18:15] <ryanakca> Riddell: Uploaded the log file if you want to look through it... *tries to find out where it went*
[18:16] <Lure> any core-dev to do no-change upload for kdegraphics (exiv2 transition)?
[18:17] <Riddell> Lure: pyexiv2 retried on amd64 and i386
[18:17] <Lure> Riddell: thanks (what about others?)
[18:18] <Riddell> oh do I have to?  clicky clicky clicky
[18:18] <Lure> Riddell: thats for your clicks ;-)
[18:19] <Riddell> done
[18:19] <Riddell> I'll do kdegraphics
[18:19] <Riddell> hmm, kdegrapics never had 4.2.1 committed
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: pushing my kdeadmin changes now
[18:22] <JontheEchidna> Oh, do you guys think we should patch the Network Management KCM to show up in the Network Settings module?
[18:22] <Quintasan> Tonio_: I'm afraid your stasks package is broken. It doesn't appear in my widget menus
[18:22] <JontheEchidna> It should be trivial to do, and it wouldn't be hidden in the advanced section
[18:22] <Tonio_> Quintasan: kbuildsycoca4 :)
[18:22] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: even after a kbuildsycoca4?
[18:22] <Tonio_> Quintasan: works for me
[18:23] <Quintasan> I havent tried that :)
[18:23] <JontheEchidna> Also, should we really have the printing in the advanced section?
[18:24] <Quintasan> Tonio_: didnt help :P
[18:24] <JontheEchidna> I think it was put there because Arby used my jockey kcm port as an example for the printing kcm
[18:25] <ryanakca> Riddell: Hmmm... Dunno. Might be a messed up build system on my end. Would you rather I commit my changes and push them to a seperate LP branch or that I upload it to my PPA?
[18:28] <Riddell> ryanakca: PPA makes sense
[18:28] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: probably should be moved
[18:28] <Tonio_> Quintasan: hum... I'll look at that.... works for me anyway
[18:29] <Lure> JontheEchidna: printing to General section: +1
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> I can work on that then
[18:31] <Lure> Riddell: strigi also needs no-change upload
[18:32] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: what about the konsole word selection bug? I start to find it annoying ;P
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah. That
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> lol
[18:32]  * JontheEchidna throws it on the todo
[18:34] <Quintasan> crap the ext4 issue is more serious than I thought :/
[18:35] <ryanakca> Riddell: Uploading, should be on my PPA shortly, I'll be back tomorrow night :)
[18:37] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: any opinion on the plasma-widget-network-manager going inside the Network Settings KCM itself?
[18:39] <JontheEchidna> I haz a debdiff that will do that if you think it's a good idea
[18:39] <JontheEchidna> http://paste.ubuntu.com/132620/
[18:41] <nookie^> hi JontheEchidna
[18:41] <JontheEchidna> hi
[18:41] <nookie^> today i've tested latest build with virtualbox
[18:41] <nookie^> bad combination =/
[18:42] <nookie^> but i've heard it has something to do with virtualbox and latest xorg in kubuntu
[18:44] <JontheEchidna> you were testing for the plasma crash, right?
[18:44] <nookie^> no the x didnt wanted to start at all
[18:44] <JontheEchidna> oh
[18:44] <nookie^> it was imposible to get it to work after guest additions were installed
[18:46] <abc> I had similar problems with both qemu and virtualbox
[18:46] <nookie^> yeah i've heard kubuntu is shipping with xorg 1.6 final and virtualbox has support for 1.6rc and thats why it crash
[18:46] <nookie^> i've read it on some forums today when i tryied
[18:50] <NCommander> Riddell, second favor, can you binNEW ecosconfig-imx?
[18:54] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: another thingy crashing at startup
[18:54] <nookie^> http://image.x0r.se/img/d16915772eb295311d355f85a5daff93e7c06bde.png
[19:01]  * Tm_T huggles kb9vqf 
[19:03] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: What's a huggle? :)
[19:03] <Tm_T> welcome, son
[19:04] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: and I'm glad to see all this KDE3 fuzz is coming to us so we can provide reasonable solution
[19:05] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: Glad to be of some help.
[19:06] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: let me know when you have launchpad page up
[19:06]  * kb9vqf wonders what launchpad page?
[19:06] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: yes, you can be the guy we point when someone whines about the lack/brokeness of KDE3 (;)
[19:06] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: :)
[19:07] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: of KDE3 efforts, we use that, right?
[19:07] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: I have a team page up here https://launchpad.net/~kde3-maintainers, but my main instructions page is here http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net
[19:07] <Tm_T> roger roger
[19:08] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: And then there's my Launchpad page with the actual PPA--I've got some consolidating to do!
[19:08] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: packages will be at that launchpad page, bugs also etc?
[19:08] <Tm_T> brrrh
[19:09] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: Well, for now bugs have been going into my bugtracker at http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net, as I thought it best to keep KDE3.5 bugs off of Launchpad
[19:09] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: But I can change that easily enough
[19:09] <Tm_T> kb9vqf: aye, when we have things rolling in nice way in launchpad, then bugs there IMO
[19:10] <kb9vqf> Tm_T: OK.  As soon as I get the team PPA space increased, then I'll move everything there
[19:10] <Tm_T> sounds good to me
[19:12] <abc> Trying to compile from bzr, should the base sources be the src packages in the repo, and then appli the patches at e.g ~kubuntu-members branches?
[19:12] <abc> Can't find documentation on the standard procedure sorry
[19:12] <Tm_T> abc: packages always provide full source + patches themself
[19:13] <Tm_T> atleast should
[19:13] <abc> And the last bzr commits?
[19:14] <abc> Should I apply them from bzr?
[19:14] <Tm_T> well those you have to take from bzr, ofcourse, but then you just use bzr and use bzr-buildpackage or such perhaps?
[19:14] <abc> Ok, trying that way, thanks
[19:15] <Tm_T> that is "for you only" method but good for that
[19:18] <abc> Tm_T, Erm, any link to a standard method? how do you proceed to build an initial source + patches environment, if you can say it in few lines?
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> nookie^: most likely the nepomukservicestub crash, but I don't know why it doesn't report it
[19:19] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: yeah that's why it crashed
[19:19] <nookie^> i mean it was nepomukservice
[19:19] <nookie^> but another thing aswell crashed
[19:19] <nookie^> but i can remeber it
[19:19] <Tm_T> abc: use bzr to get the bzr sources, then just use bzr-buildpackage if all is made well
[19:19] <Tm_T> abc: though, I think in Kubuntus case this isn't possible yet, hrm
[19:21] <abc> Tm_T: I've only got debian's and kubuntu patches from bazaar , used bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdelibs/debian
[19:22] <Tm_T> aye
[19:22] <Tm_T> then you have to use ppa packages as base I guess
[19:23] <Lure> Riddell: will you be able to do also strigi no-change upload or should I find other core-dev sponsor?
[19:24] <abc> Ok, great, many thanks.
[20:04] <nixternal> anyone check out Synapse yet? http://synapse.im - Qt Mono based IM client...looks pretty slick, first Qt Mono app I think I have seen
[20:12] <nookie^> nixternal: looking very very good =)
[20:12] <nixternal> ya, just tried it out, not to shabby
[20:13] <nookie^> what protocols does it offer?
[20:13] <nixternal> just jabber that I have seen
[20:17] <Lure> nixternal: I tried, but it crashes for me on Jaunty
[20:17] <nookie^> nixternal: hopefully it would offer more protocols
[20:17]  * Lure kind of expected this from mono ;-(
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> lol
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> All I know is that I hate most of kdebindings
[20:19]  * Lure does not understand how only one binary out of three from same source package gets published
[21:16] <jussi01> can anyone reproduce this? Go to kpackage kit, (in jaunty), hit update, see there are updates, hit apply, then while its doing its stuff, are all the buttons on the dialogue box disabled? ie. details, cancel, etc?
[21:21] <khashayar> jussi01: nope. cancel's not disabled here.
[21:22] <jussi01> hrm
[21:23] <khashayar> I'd like to rebuild kdebase-workspace in order to have google gadgets support in plasma. Any ideas which dependency I need to add to debian/control?
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> my brother got a Dell Inspiron with Ubuntu 8.04
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> it came with an Ubuntu dvd even though it didn't have an optical disk drive, heh
[21:38] <smarter> :]
[21:38] <smarter> which one?
[21:40] <khashayar> jussi01: By the way, I just saw there's an update to kpackagekit. I'll see if I can reproduce your issue after the update.
[21:58] <JontheEchidna> smarter: Ubuntu 8.04 + recovery DVD
[21:58] <smarter> JontheEchidna: I mean, which insprion :p
[21:58] <smarter> *inspiron
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> oh
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> dunno
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> it has an SSD
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> 8GB
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> 1.5 GHZ atom
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> 512 MB RAM
[21:59] <smarter> isn't that the Mini?
[22:00] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[22:00] <JontheEchidna> That's the one
[22:03] <JontheEchidna> the worst part is that all of the other linux computers in the house are KDE, and he sees no problems with gnome whatsoever :P
[22:04] <JontheEchidna> aside from he can't figure out how to use a custom wallpaper
[22:07] <JontheEchidna> it's application launcher is pretty cool
[23:02] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I've just packaged kgtk in my ppa...
[23:02] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that may never reach the repos, but as it is a pain to compile with both qt3 and qt4 wrappers, I decided to do that on my own
[23:02] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: do you think that some kgtk-firefox that would divert the desktop file would be usefull ?
[23:03] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that way you can just install kgtk kgtk-firefox-config for example and get it to work...
[23:03] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that's crap, but I think that's what ppas can be used for :)
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> yup
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> I know some people would fix it useful
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> er
[23:04] <Tonio_> which kgtk-*-config should I create ? firefox, gimp, thunderbird ?
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> s/fix/find
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[23:05] <Tonio_> there can be lots...
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> that would be a pain
[23:05] <Tonio_> well I can start with those and add the other ones later... :)
[23:07] <Tonio_> bah not that long to package to be honnest...
[23:13] <Riddell> wow, when rosetta spams it really spams
[23:17] <Riddell> did someone have a fix for the konsole selection problem?
[23:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah, that's boring.....
[23:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: ever tested kgtk ? works pretty well :)
[23:19] <Riddell> konsole isn't boring, it's the most important app there is!
[23:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: unlikelly to reach the repos, but I think we could maintain something outside of the archives on that point...
[23:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: Rosetta is boring :)
[23:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: what is the bug with konsole ?
[23:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: I didn't notice any issue with selection....
[23:20] <Riddell> it only selects up to a non alphanumeric character
[23:21] <Riddell> it should select across / and : and characters like that
[23:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: you mean, with mouse selection ? I can't seem to reproduce...
[23:24] <Riddell> Tonio_: double click on a url in console  http://google.com/foo/foo
[23:24] <Riddell> does it select the whole thing?
[23:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: right, it considers / or . as separation and doesn't select the all sentence...
[23:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's weird, but I'm unsure it's to be considered a bug
[23:25] <Riddell> it's definately a bug
[23:25] <Tonio_> okay :)
[23:25] <Riddell> there's a config option which says those should be considered part of a word
[23:26] <Tonio_> ah ! indeed then
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan sent me a patch for it
[23:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I thought someone was talking about it
[23:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: found it :)
[23:27] <Tonio_> hehe
[23:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: what happened?
[23:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: in your profile conf, go in advanced and remove all the special chars
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> oh, I forgot about it. It wasn't very high on my priorities list since A) I'm not really affected in my personal use and B)It's gonna be in 4.2.2
[23:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: those define which should stop the word
[23:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: then works as expected
[23:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: we set this within kds I suspect...
[23:28] <Riddell> Quintasan: got that patch?
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> I could commit the patch right now
[23:29] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hum.... there's a patch for this ? I just made it to work with configuration here...
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: Yeah, committed for KDE 4.2.2. It's just that it's implemented backwards
[23:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's doing the opposite of what it should
[23:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah okay.... I use an english kde so I was unsure if the way it worked was normal or opposite :)
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> patch committed to bzr
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> I also have some other things for main sponsoring
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdeadmin/ubuntu
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> and bug 343797
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> also http://paste.ubuntu.com/132758/
[23:51] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: uploading everything now :)
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> cool, thanks
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> I may want to send the last patch upstream or something
[23:57] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: kdebase ftbfs... patch 08 doesn't apply anymore (quilt joy...)
[23:57] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: fixing while I upload the other stuff ?
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> sure. I guess that other konsole patch messed things up
[23:58] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that's why I hate quilt and why I loved simple-patchsys....
[23:58] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: a *lot* easier to handle multiple patches to patch the same file...