[00:00] <nhandler> Laney: Do you have bug numbers?
[00:00] <Laney> bug 336029 bug 344578
[00:02] <nhandler> I have a meeting right now Laney, but I'll look them over tonight
[00:02] <Laney> sure, thanks
[00:06] <dtchen> Laney: you might want to regenerate the gnome-do debdiff (minor, but you probably want to update debian/gnome-do.1 again)
[00:06] <Laney> I didn't know whether to ignore the last part or not (since this is part of the 0.8.1 series)
[00:06] <dtchen> Laney: well, i'll leave it to you :)
[00:07] <Laney> dtchen: Do you mind it being uploaded in your name btw?
[00:07] <dtchen> i don't
[00:07] <Laney> good, as you did do the work
[00:07] <dtchen> i get the ppa spam anyhow
[00:35] <nhandler> Laney: Why is the changelog in the bug description different than in the .diff.gz?
[00:35] <Laney> for which?
[00:35] <Laney> there are two packages
[00:36] <nhandler> Both of them. The .diff.gz's contain different changelogs than in the bug description
[00:36] <nhandler> gnome-do and -plugins
[00:38] <Laney> what's different (besides not having the main LP: #xxx)?
[00:38] <nhandler> Laney: That was the first thing I noticed. I'm not sure if there are any other differences
[00:39] <Laney> that's just because I rolled it before submitting the bug
[00:39] <Laney> I'll give you the new ones if you want
[00:39] <nhandler> I personally don't care for right now, but you will want to make sure that the .diff.gz's that get uploaded close the FFe bug
[00:39] <Laney> they do
[00:40]  * nhandler goes to look again
[00:41] <ScottK> nxvl: I'm around again now.
[00:41] <Laney> I also bumped the gnome-do build-dep in -plugins since filing, fyi
[00:41] <Laney> to ensure it's build against the new version of core
[00:57] <nxvl> ScottK: i've been told you are looking for someone to take your work in clamav
[01:03] <Laney> nhandler: New diffs up.
[01:03]  * Laney -> shower. Hopefully I can upload this before bed
[01:03] <nhandler> Laney: I'm looking at miro right now. I'll look at gnome-do again after
[01:04] <Adri2000> ScottK: can you do something for bug #335692 ?
[01:04] <Laney> sure
[01:04] <jdong> Adri2000: I'll handle it
[01:05] <Adri2000> jdong: thanks! ScottK: nevermind, jdong took it
[01:05] <ScottK> Even better.
[01:05] <jdong> stupid launchpad, for the last time I'm logged in!
[01:10] <nhandler> Laney: Your changelog entry says "debian/pyversions: Change to "2.5-" to build for 2.6 ", but you change it from 2.5 to 2.6- in your debdiff. I also am not able to build the Source Package using your debdiff "/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk:183: *** invalid setting in debian/pyversions.  Stop."
[01:11] <Laney> haha
[01:11] <Laney> I noticed that
[01:12] <Laney> slip of the hand and all that
[01:18] <ScottK> nhandler: You need to build the source package in a Jaunty chroot.  That file only exists in Jaunty's python.
[01:20] <nhandler> scottk: Thanks for the info
[01:20] <Laney> nhandler: And it should be just 2.6. I had already noticed and fixed it.
[01:20] <Laney> theres some weirdness with boost.python that makes it not play nice with 2.5- afaics
[01:37] <Laney> sleep time
[01:42] <ScottK> Laney: What version of boost?
[01:42] <ScottK> Laney: I've been trying to get everything migrated to boost1.35.
[04:59] <adelie42> Between patch testing, want to work on my own features to some of the kdegames, but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegames has no "code" section. Should I just start my own branch, apt-get source kdegames and push it? I know that will let me get started right away, but I would prefer to do it a right way if someone is willing to advise
[05:02] <dtchen> JontheEchidna: / ScottK-desktop: / nixternal: / a|wen: ^^^
[05:02] <adelie42> https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/kdegames/trunk looks good, even if it is not official.
[05:03] <dtchen> adelie42: if you don't get a response here, you may want to ask in #kubuntu-devel
[05:03] <adelie42> dtchen: thanks, i'll check thhere
[05:04]  * nixternal hides
[05:04] <nixternal> adelie42: there is a kdegames branch
[05:06] <nixternal> adelie42: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members
[05:06] <nixternal> there is kdegames/debian and kdegames/ubuntu
[05:07] <nixternal> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdegames/ubuntu
[05:07] <nixternal> that's the one you are interested in
[05:07] <adelie42> ok, I was looking at https://code.launchpad.net/kdegames, which is only packaging data :( thanks
[05:08] <adelie42> Thad looks right. Thank you!!!!
[05:08] <nixternal> right, which is all we have in bzr...the source tarballs are elsewhere to be grabbed (ie. KDE ftp for <= 4.2.1)
[05:08] <nixternal> no prob
[05:10] <adelie42> err... that is again just the packaging... If I want to build off of the source I would otherwise get from apt-get source kdegames, is there no bazaar branch to work from?
[05:11] <nixternal> you can do that...no need to keep the tarballs in bzr since they are already in KDE..or you can get them from apt-get source
[05:13] <adelie42> I use several machines in different locations. bzr is really convenient, which was why I thought it was used in the first place. Are the primary developers for kdegames just not using launchpad/bzr?
[05:36] <a|wen> adelie42: the developers of kdegames are working in kde svn
[05:38] <a|wen> adelie42: i think http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Sources/Anonymous_SVN might give you some of the info you seek
[05:43] <a|wen> adelie42: in any case you might want to jump into #kubuntu-devel also ... some of them might know more about working with upstream
[05:47] <adelie42> I got some of my own ideas for i'd like to work on (between patch testing grunt work), but keeping in sync with the real development version would be nice, in case someone actually likes any of the things stuff I am working on
[05:47] <nixternal> ahh, then yes, you need to look into the link that a|wen provided for kde svn :)
[05:52] <adelie42> :/ grr... not only am I not a KDE user, I am not familiar with svn. I LOVE launchpad / bzr. I am looking at the linked page and thinking that is more than I want to deal with (not to be anti kde, just each to their own and all)
[05:54] <adelie42> I appreciate the links though. I'll have to check it out some time. I just got familiar with bazaar and want to focus my attention there for now.
[05:57] <nixternal> adelie42: svn is similar to bzr, or really, bzr is similar to svn
[05:57] <nixternal> plus there is some good info on that wiki page to get you started
[06:05] <justinnfx> Hello- I need some help installing ubuntu
[06:05] <justinnfx> Last time I tried wubi and it did not work, i got stuck at the password menu, and it would not install
[06:06] <justinnfx> Ok Im am installing ubuntu 8.10 right now
[06:07] <justinnfx> I mean downloading
[06:07] <justinnfx> do I need to resize my partion?
[06:07] <adelie42> This is not the appropriate channel for installation support. I sent you an IM. I can help you there
[06:08] <justinnfx> k
[06:09] <sbeattie> adelie42: there's always bzr-svn to work with a svn tree from within bzr, though I've not tried it.
[06:17] <adelie42> hmm... that sounds intriguing.
[06:33] <fabrice_sp_> Hi. Should the bug reports linked  to the python2.6 transition nominated for Jaunty?
[06:49] <justinnfx> How come I have 80gb space free, but win is only letting me shrink to get 4gb free space?
[06:51] <StevenK> You should probably defragment your drive
[06:52] <dholbach> good morning
[06:52] <justinnfx> GM
[06:53] <justinnfx> StevenX you think that will do it, if I go around deleting a bunch of stuff, like old torrent.  Will that work
[06:53] <justinnfx> I probally can delete about 50gb of program/music/vid off the winvista, will that give me the extra 50gb to srhink
[06:57] <fabrice_sp> good morning dholbach !
[06:58] <dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp, hi ara
[06:58] <ara> hey dholbach :)
[06:59] <justinnfx> my ubuntu download is done but I can firgure how to get more than 4gb of space
[06:59] <justinnfx> does ubuntu shrink the disk for you
[06:59] <justinnfx> i do got 80 gb left
[07:13] <justinnfx> Ok I used Paragon and I ended up making the unlocated space at the end 75gb in size.  Will ubuntu install from the unlocated space while doing dual boot?
[07:16] <fabrice_sp> justinnfx, yes, but I think you will receive more help in #ubuntu
[07:32] <didrocks> morning o/
[07:33] <dholbach> good morning didrocks - I commented on the murrine request
[07:34] <didrocks> hey dholbach ;)
[07:34] <didrocks> dholbach: looking at it. I just followed seb128 ask for packaging :)
[07:35] <dholbach> thanks a lot
[07:35] <geser> good morning
[07:36] <stefanlsd> Whats the procedure to request a rebuild of a package - no changes?
[07:37] <geser> provide debdiff as usual
[07:38] <geser> the debdiff will only contain the new changelog entry, but that's ok
[07:38] <geser> and use -XbuildY as revision if it doesn't have -XubuntuY already
[07:39] <stefanlsd> geser: kk. thanks
[07:49] <didrocks> dholbach: done
[07:51] <dholbach> didrocks: can you talk to seb128 about it when he turns up later on - dunno if the release team needs to weigh in there
[07:52] <didrocks> dholbach: about the FFe or the doubled work?
[07:52] <dholbach> didrocks: the FFe
[07:53] <didrocks> dholbach: seb128 gives a FFe each time he asks on #ubuntu-desktop to update a package :)
[07:53] <dholbach> didrocks: the doubled work can happen every time, if you said you reviewed the other changes and there's nothing worth merging, that's good enough for me
[07:54] <didrocks> dholbach: I merged the quilt removal, appart from that, nothing else useful
[07:54] <dholbach> ok good - please ask him anyway :)
[07:54] <didrocks> dholbach: I will ;)
[07:54] <dholbach> didrocks: thanks a lot for working on this
[07:55] <didrocks> dholbach: y/w
[07:56] <brendon> hello there
[07:57] <didrocks> morning brendon
[07:57] <brendon> anyone here who I can ask a question about developing a python app in ubuntu?
[07:57] <brendon> hello didrocks
[07:58] <brendon> where about are you didrocks?  I'm in florida, it's 4am
[07:58] <didrocks> brendon: France, it's 9am ;)
[07:59] <brendon> cool, I've never been to France.  I just came to America from China a week ago, so my internal time is off.
[07:59] <brendon> are you involved with MOTU ?
[07:59] <didrocks> I can imagine ^^
[08:00] <didrocks> brendon: yes, as most of people there, I am kinda busy now (some packages to update), bbl
[08:00] <didrocks> brendon: for python support, you can maybe try later, if more people will be awake ;)
[08:01] <brendon> thanks didrocks, good luck with your packages, I have some debuggin' to do :)
[08:01] <didrocks> brendon: thanks, you too!
[09:10] <brendon> I'm still here if anyone's feeling chatty
[09:11] <brendon> I suppose I should say that from time to time
[09:11] <kaushal> hi
[09:11] <kaushal> is there any simple way to upgrade 2.24.3 (ubuntu 8.10) to 2.26.0?
[09:11] <slytherin> kaushal: no
[09:11] <brendon> are you talking about the kernel?
[09:12] <brendon> anyway, there is always 1 simple way to upgrade... 3 step process.
[09:13] <brendon> step 1: partition your drive and resize a big area for backup
[09:13] <brendon> step 2: reinstall the OS
[09:13] <brendon> step 3: reinstall all of your favorite software
[09:14] <kaushal> slytherin, curious to know about the reason :)
[09:14] <brendon> I do that several times a year ;)
[09:14] <kaushal> I mean evolution package
[09:14] <brendon> oh, you can uninstall evolution then download the source and install from source.
[09:14] <slytherin> kaushal: you will have to also upgrade all it's dependencies and there is high chance to break your installation. So that is why there is 'no simple way to upgrade'.
[09:15] <kaushal> sure
[09:15] <kaushal> Thanks slytherin
[09:15] <kaushal> so there will be no update for evolution email client for Ubuntu 8.04 ?
[09:15] <brendon> does it hurt to try?  you can "apt-get remove" if it doesn't work.  then reinstall the default
[09:16] <slytherin> !sru > kaushal
[09:17] <slytherin> brendon: it may actually hurt
[09:18] <brendon> I guess I can imagine so, slytherin, but I'm the type of person who likes to bring on the trouble ;)  fixing bugs makes my day
[09:19] <slytherin> brendon: but there is no reason to recommend same to others. :-)
[09:19] <directhex> "stable" means "doesn't change"
[09:19] <brendon> but really, for such a standard app such as evolution I can't imagine what major conflicts would occur.
[09:19] <directhex> updating evo includes invasive changes such as the move to sqlite
[09:19] <brendon> your right slytherin, sorry for the bad advice.  I've never had any critical issues from a bad package install so I didn't know.
[09:20] <brendon> the most sound advice is to make a bug-report or software request for this type of thing, correct?
[09:21] <brendon> good to know directhex, thanks
[09:22] <brendon> does anyone here have experience packaging a python app?
[09:31] <brendon> welcome Kmos
[09:55] <Laney> ScottK: Uwe moved to 1.37 in Debian
[10:42] <brendon1> anybody home?
[10:57] <Toadstool> hi guys!
[11:03] <quadrispro> fabrice_sp_, I'm working on bug 344660
[11:03] <quadrispro> (hi to everybody)
[11:09] <brendon1> hello to toadstool and quadrispro
[11:10] <quadrispro> hi brendon1
[11:10]  * quadrispro going away for some minute
[11:10] <brendon1> how are things?
[11:10] <brendon1> ok
[11:14] <quadrispro> brendon1, are you asking about python transition?
[11:16] <brendon1> yes
[11:16] <quadrispro> it's almost done
[11:16] <brendon1> how did you know?  is there a review function?
[11:16] <quadrispro> http://gaspa.yattaweb.it/issues/edos/jaunty_i386_edosresults.xml
[11:16] <brendon1> oh wait, no, I don't think I'm asking about python transition.
[11:17] <quadrispro> ah ok
[11:17] <brendon1> I've made an application in python, and I'm trying to package it.
[11:18] <brendon1> I've got it working successfully through dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage
[11:18] <brendon1> and then I can run the package from the command line, but I can't run it from the Applications menu
[11:18] <brendon1> it hangs on "Starting application-name" then dies
[11:19] <brendon1> so I'm wondering if anyone knows how to get a python app running through the Applications menu
[11:20] <quadrispro> brendon1, you need to provide a .desktop file and install it in /usr/share/applications dir
[11:21] <brendon1> I have the desktop file, let me see if it's there...
[11:22] <brendon1> yeah, it's in there.
[11:23] <quadrispro> you could install it by adjusting setup.py script (if you have one)
[11:24] <quadrispro> brendon1, take a look to this -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#.desktop%20Files
[11:24] <brendon1> I think that's not the problem.  you know, even if you just double click the app.py and run it that way, it always pops up a terminal first and runs it through the terminal... know what I mean?  I have a feeling that this type of program is somehow dependent on a terminal
[11:24] <brendon1> because it's python
[11:25] <quadrispro> brendon1, but does your app need to run in a terminal window?
[11:27] <brendon1> this perhaps is my question.  I've made many GUI interfaces before, but this is the first time I've tried to install one...  I usually run them myself from a terminal, so I don't know how to skip the terminal
[11:27] <brendon1> for example, with a java frames app I would: java app.class
[11:27] <brendon1> and for a python app I would: python app.py
[11:27] <directhex> write a script to run "python app.py"
[11:28] <directhex> make that script executable, point a .desktop file at it
[11:28] <quadrispro> yes, it's the right way
[11:29] <brendon1> that's it!  I think I know now... the applications menu icon is linking directly to the app.py.  Then it's doing the same thing it would if I clicked on it... it's wondering if it should open it or run it...
[11:30] <quadrispro> brendon1, anyway, we are in Feature Freeze so you could upload your package to REVU, I think we could review it in time for Karmic
[11:31] <brendon1> thanks quadrispro, but I think this package has a while to go before it's acceptable for anyone to look at.
[11:31] <brendon1> This is my first time making a linux package, and for Ubuntu standards I think I'll have a lot to do.
[11:31] <quadrispro> ok
[11:32] <brendon1> I'm mostly doing this because I want to learn more and become a contributor for Ubuntu.
[11:33] <brendon1> so I figured making my own package would be the best way to start learning the process of packaging.
[11:35] <quadrispro> yes, it's good starting point
[11:36] <brendon1> do you have any other tips to help me faster along?  I'm on extended holiday now, so I'm in study mode everyday.
[11:38] <quadrispro> of course, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted contains a lot of useful information
[11:38] <Laney> no!
[11:38] <Laney> Don't start with making a new package :(
[11:38] <quadrispro> about packaging and development process
[11:38] <brendon1> yeah, I've read a lot of that, but it's a little overwhelming
[11:39] <quadrispro> Laney thinks different :)
[11:39] <Laney> we have plenty of bugs, fix some of those
[11:41] <directhex> Laney, i always advice bug triage as the first thing a new developer should try their hand at
[11:41] <brendon1> I'm not sure where to start at the bug tracker
[11:43] <hggdh> brendon1, /j #ubuntu-bugs
[11:45] <brendon1> anyway, I've never fixed a bug before, I'm afraid most of them are to specific.
[13:33] <slytherin> slomo: ping
[13:50] <brendon> where'd all the humans go?
[13:50] <RainCT> humans? :)
[13:50] <ScottK> brendon: Everyone here except you is a bot.
[13:51] <brendon> is that true?
[13:51] <brendon> what are the bots doing?  waiting for secret govn info?
[13:51] <directhex> Please go on.
[13:51] <directhex> Does that question interest you?
[13:51] <geser> the answer is simple: taking over the world
[13:52] <directhex> Please go on.
[13:52] <brendon> bots do interest me, I've spent ages working on an intelligent bot
[13:52] <directhex> Can you elaborate on that?
[13:53] <brendon> but it was hard enough getting it to understand just me without worrying about putting it in a chat environment
[13:53] <directhex> Can you elaborate on that?
[13:54] <brendon> to elaborate, language based AI, dissecting sentences and organizing information into data trees
[13:54] <directhex> Please go on.
[13:54] <brendon> then hoping that the bot will respond correctly and concisely to specific questions
[13:55] <directhex> Please go on.
[13:55] <brendon> ambiguity was the big problem, of course, and the fact that people don't always make sense would be the other issue
[13:55] <directhex> When?
[13:56] <brendon> when what?
[13:56] <directhex> Does that question interest you?
[13:56] <brendon> hehe
[13:56] <brendon> your a bot
[13:56] <directhex> Please go on.
[13:56] <directhex> What about your own a bot?
[14:25] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:25] <_ruben> superm1: is there a (standard) way with dkms to have a Module.symvers file to be included in the tarball/deb output ?
[14:27] <quadrispro> fabrice_sp_: I'm working on bug 340827
[14:27] <superm1> _ruben, hmm, not currently I dont believe
[14:28] <geser> Hi bddebian
[14:28] <bddebian> Hi geser
[14:28] <_ruben> superm1: bugger .. i got 2 kmods where one depends on the other in that needs its Module.symvers file :/
[14:31] <superm1> _ruben, well why not just put them both in the same dkms package?
[14:32] <superm1> _ruben, i might be mistaken, someone might have found a crafty way to do it, I'm just not aware off hand of a standard way
[14:33] <brendon> apt-get needs to install both packages at the same time in this case, such as: apt-get install package1 package2
[14:33] <brendon> I don't know if that helps
[14:33] <_ruben> superm1: combining them has crossed my mind, as they're closely related, but the 2nd isnt a requirement for the 1st (only the other way around) .. guess i could make 2 dkms packages: 1 for kmod 1, another for kmod 1+2
[14:33] <quadrispro> fabrice_sp_: I've added a comment, please file a bug on debian BTS
[14:55] <cjwatson> directhex: I don't think bug triage is a "developer lite" kind of thing. It's a skilled job that not everyone is good at, IME
[14:55] <nxvl> nixternal: ping
[15:05] <nixternal> nxvl: pong
[15:06] <directhex> cjwatson, if people want to contribute, i'd rather they help an existing package than dump more half-maintained crap into the archive - they still end up learning all the tools
[15:06] <cjwatson> directhex: help an existing package, absolutely, but that's a bit different from "bug triage"
[15:07] <cjwatson> work on producing patches for open bugs, I'd say
[15:07] <directhex> obviously they're not going to be able to do much on headline apps that isn't better served by core dev people, but there's plenty of universe that needs a light shining on it
[15:07] <directhex> yeahm, okay, i can agree with that
[15:35] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[15:38] <RainCT> Heya sistpoty|work
[15:38] <sistpoty|work> hi RainCT
[15:58] <ia> hello. could anyone point me, please, some howto/tutorial about creating -dbg deb package for application?
[16:00] <ia> ..oh, and about how such package to integrate in apport crash report system for sending bugs in launchpad.
[16:06] <ia> and another question - which adventages/disadvenages between cowbuilder and pbuilder and what does ubuntu maintainers use?
[16:14] <jmarsden> ia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash (is more about using the debug packages than building them) and I think most people use pbuilder rather than cowbuilder.
[16:20] <ia> jmarsden: oh, looks like it's easy as a pie - http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:tRVI1OJEo1kJ:www.calivia.com/blog/mike/debug-packages-for-debian (it's a cache link because original site is down :-)
[16:22] <jmarsden> Yes, that sounds about right.  For more examples, you could look at the debian/rules and debian/control in the source package of pretty much anything that has debug packages.
[17:06] <Laney> nixternal: "he MC has decided that it will open
[17:06] <Laney> up discussions concerning the charter by March 20, 2009. The following week,
[17:06] <Laney> on March 26, 2009 at 17:00 UTC"
[17:06] <Laney> What's the second sentence there? "Discussions will close"?
[17:06] <jpds> ...there will be a MOTU meeting.
[17:07] <nixternal> heh, how did I miss that one...
[17:07] <nixternal> Laney: I am going to resend as it will be a MOTU meeting and not a MOTU Council meeting
[17:08]  * ScottK wonders why MC action is needed on this?
[17:08] <Laney> righto
[17:08] <nixternal> ScottK: my understanding is that the charter hasn't been completed in a timely matter
[17:08] <ScottK> I think any individual MOTU (including those on the MC) can take this question up to a MOTU meeting.
[17:08] <ScottK> nixternal: Who determines timely?
[17:08] <ScottK> We have a draft.
[17:08] <nixternal> ya, it will be at the MOTU meeting, not the MOTU Council meeting
[17:09] <ScottK> nixternal: Fine, but I'd be a lot more comfortable with this being proposed by MOTU than MC sitting in judgement.
[17:09] <nixternal> I believe teh discussion will be to take the draft, fix it as needed, and then put it into effect
[17:09] <ScottK> MC is to mediate disputes, and AFAICT there is no dispute here that needs mediating.
[17:10] <nixternal> MC won't be sitting in judgement, just part of the discussions
[17:10] <ScottK> Then the announcement about it shouldn't come from the MC.
[17:11] <ScottK> I'm fine to have the discussion and a charter for motu-release that MOTU approve of, but I don't think the MC as an entity has a dog in this fight.
[17:12] <Laney> What's wrong with the MC collectively bringing topics up for MOTU discussion?
[17:12] <ScottK> Laney: It's not an MC duty.
[17:12] <nixternal> right, the MOTU will be approving, not the MC...the MC simply wanted to see discussions with MOTU going on concerning this. If nothing was opened by the 20th, then the MC had planned on opening it up by the 21st
[17:13] <ScottK> MC's charter (in a nutshell) is dispute resolution and actions in the new developer process delegated to it by the TB.
[17:13] <nixternal> for some reason, my cut/paste didn't work to well in that email...mutt some how failed to grab the entire text
[17:13] <ScottK> nixternal: I don't think the MC as an entity has any authority to want this.
[17:13] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council responsibilities are there
[17:13] <ScottK> As individual MOTU, sure thing.  No problem.
[17:14] <ScottK> Laney: Yes and I don't see anything there that's relevant.
[17:14] <nixternal> It will supervise policy decisions done by the MOTU team and can thus
[17:14] <nixternal> * intervene only if really needed \
[17:15] <ScottK> Yes, so what is requiring intervention?
[17:15] <nixternal> supervising a policy decision by opening up discussions
[17:15] <nixternal> that's all we are doing here
[17:15] <ScottK> Yes.  I think the prod to get back to work on the charter was reasonable.
[17:15] <nixternal> It will make efforts to keep the atmosphere calm and productive.
[17:15] <nixternal> and doing that in the grand scheme of things
[17:15] <nixternal> making the atmosphere productive
[17:16] <ScottK> I don't think setting arbitrary deadlines without consultation is consistent with keeping things calm and reasonable.
[17:16] <brendon2> what's a MC?
[17:16] <ScottK> There isn't really anything pushing  this to get done on any particular schedule.
[17:16] <ScottK> brendon2: MOTU Council.
[17:16] <brendon2> and a TB?
[17:16] <ScottK> We don't just package stuff here, we also have politics.
[17:16] <ScottK> Ubuntu Technical Board.
[17:17] <ScottK> Final stop for techincal decisions in Ubuntu.
[17:17] <brendon2> thanks skottk.  I'm new
[17:17] <ScottK> You're welcome and welcome to #ubuntu-motu.
[17:18] <brendon2> you guys really put in a lot to be doing this free of charge.  is this for the shear love of linux?
[17:18] <brendon2> I'm addicted to programming myself.
[17:18] <ScottK> Everyone who's here is here for their own reasons.
[17:19] <ScottK> For myself I suspect some kind of mental problem is the root of it.
[17:19] <jdong> ScottK: I think that's kind of universal :)
[17:19] <brendon2> ok, got it ;)
[17:19] <ScottK> jdong: Right, well in your case I have no doubts.
[17:19] <jdong> :D
[17:20] <ScottK> nixternal: Do me a favor and have the MC minutes say the MC is pleased to see progress on the draft charter and hopes it will come to a MOTU meeting for discussion soon.  Then send out something on your own that makes that so.
[17:20] <brendon2> I'm looking to grow as a developer, tired of being a solo developer
[17:22] <brendon> btw, I joined a mailing list for motu a few days ago and haven't gotten anything from it yet
[17:23] <ScottK> It's pretty low volume.  Most work is coordinated via IRC.
[17:23] <brendon> ah, then I came to the right place.
[17:23] <brendon> can anyone tell me how to go about triaging as a newbie?
[17:24] <brendon> I just started responding to some bugs, is that I have to do?  or should I be clicking something to give my a/disa-proval of the situation?
[17:24] <ScottK> For bug triage you want #ubuntu-bugs.
[17:25] <brendon> I'm logged in there too.  I think they're dead.
[17:26]  * ScottK regularly gets in trouble for 'doing it wrong', so is loathe to give advice on triage policy.
[17:29] <ScottK> nixternal: Thanks for sending out the cancellation mail.
[17:30] <nixternal> np...trying to figure out a) why that email didn't get sent correctly, b) what time MOTU meetings should be, and c) getting pissed off with the wiki
[17:31] <ScottK> nixternal: Just so you know, there's still some email among the motu-release members as recently as today to make sure we're comfortable with what we drafted.
[17:31] <nixternal> I hate MoinMoin, or at least our MoinMoin...it is the most unorganized thing I have ever witnessed
[17:32] <ScottK> nixternal: I still can't find stuff after it got reorganized.
[17:32] <nixternal> me either
[17:32] <nixternal> the search sucks
[17:32] <nixternal> when you read a page, it looks like crap
[17:32] <ScottK> nixternal: Did you like my comment on your blog post about teenage daughters?
[17:32] <nixternal> ya I did
[17:32] <nixternal> I knew you would respond to that one too
[17:32] <ScottK> That's a true story.
[17:32] <nixternal> there were some really inspirational responses to it as well
[17:33] <nixternal> we have some very loving and passionate members in our community, not just us nut bags in here :p
[17:33] <ScottK> Remember job one is they turn 18 disease free and not pregnant.
[17:33] <nixternal> my daughter is still young enough to believe my BS
[17:33] <nixternal> she hasn't called me on anything yet
[17:33] <ScottK> Or at least to fake it.
[17:34] <ScottK> Later they don't bother.
[17:34] <nxvl> ScottK: hI!
[17:34] <nixternal> I told her that if I find out she talks with boys or she don't get all A's on her report card, she will spend the summer washing my car
[17:34] <ScottK> Hey nxvl.
[17:34] <ScottK> ;-)
[17:34] <nixternal> she did have a good comeback though on the report card bit and all A's... she said "Don't pressure me, support me"
[17:34] <nixternal> I was like "damn, I just got pwned by my own daughter"
[17:35] <ScottK> nixternal: Recent conversation with the 17 year old "In 9 months no one will be legally obligated to take care of you.  You might want to consider working on making it so that people want to".
[17:35] <nixternal> oh nice one
[17:35] <nxvl> ScottK: i send you a PM yesterday
[17:35] <ScottK> That was a pretty intense blowup.
[17:35] <ScottK> nxvl: Yeah,  You weren't around by the time I got it.
[17:35] <ScottK> nxvl: pm now?
[17:35] <nxvl> ScottK: i will send you an e-mail this afternoon to discuss the details
[17:36] <nxvl> ok that work
[17:36] <ScottK> Either way
[17:40] <andersk> Can someone look at this sync request that resolves a Jaunty sagemath crash?  bug 344903.
[17:41] <brendon> anything I can do to help MOTU today?
[17:42] <andersk> brendon: How about bug 344903 that I asked about right before you got here?  :-)
[17:43] <ScottK> andersk: He's not a MOTU, so it won't help you.
[17:43]  * ScottK will look.
[17:44] <andersk> Oh heh.  Great, thanks.
[17:45] <brendon> yeah, I figure you're looking for a special kind of click which I'm not authorized to do ;)
[17:45] <brendon> I'll read it anyway for fun though.
[17:52] <ScottK> andersk: What's the crash this fixes?
[17:53] <andersk> LP bug 339218; it crashes when you try to run the GUI.
[17:54] <andersk> `sage -notebook` to reproduce.
[17:54] <ScottK> Thanks
[17:56] <ScottK> andersk: If you're interested in this package you might want to help the Debian maintainer with teaching it not to use the embedded code copies.  I wouldn't have accepted this into Ubuntu like this.
[17:58] <andersk> That's a known bug; in fact the maintainer self-filed Debian #513837 and #513838 to prevent the package from entering testing in this state.  Jaunty picked it up anyway, though.
[17:59] <andersk> It doesn't build with any version of cython other than the embedded version (the version in Debian is too new).
[18:00] <andersk> It is hard to disentangle the integrated jsmath from this version of Sage, but that has been fixed in newer versions of Sage upstream.
[18:01] <andersk> (The Debian maintainer is sitting right next to me.  :-))
[18:05] <ScottK> Ah.  Excellent.
[18:06] <ScottK> Stuff that comes to us through Debian gets a more gentle review than stuff we package directly.
[18:07] <andersk> I kinda wonder in general if Ubuntu should hold off on syncing things from unstable with RC bugs, but maybe that would slow things down too much.
[18:09] <ScottK> Dunno.  It'd take some BTS integration to know and usually the stuff gets found after it would have sync'ed.
[18:09] <ScottK> BTW, I'm test building now and I'll approve the sync assuming it builds.
[18:09] <andersk> Thanks!
[18:10] <ScottK> You might want to pass on that if he puts (LP: #nnnnnn) in his Debian changelog, Ubuntu bugs will get autoclosed after a sync.
[18:10] <ScottK> On the off chance he cares ...
[18:46] <RainCT> woot, transparency is working again in terminator :)
[18:48] <brendon1> I just installed terminator the other day, what separates it from a regular terminal?
[18:48] <RainCT> brendon1: press Ctrl+Alt+O :)
[18:48] <fabrice_sp__> ScottK, you tried to get rid of libboost < 1.35, right? I'm building a package that still uses 1.34
[18:49] <jpds> s/Alt/Shift/
[18:49] <RainCT> err right
[18:49] <RainCT> lapsus
[18:49] <ScottK> fabrice_sp__: It's a goal.  It if works with 1.35, please change it.
[18:49] <fabrice_sp__> ScottK, ok. As it FTBFS, I'll try
[18:49] <ScottK> Thanks
[18:56] <jpds> Ng: Latest vte uploads fix terminator! ^-- \o/
[18:57] <Ng> jpds: yep, the bug is already closed :D
[18:57] <Nafallo> will they allow me to open terminator with a keyboard shortcut though?
[19:08] <ScottK> andersk: Looks good.  I've subscribed the archive admins and it should get done soonish.
[19:36] <mrooney> does anyone understand how the adblock-plus package works? in debian/rules it has a "include /usr/share/mozilla-devscripts/xpi.mk" but that file doesn't exist
[19:36] <mrooney> although it seems to install fine
[19:37] <Snova> It's in the mozilla-devscripts package.
[19:37] <vadi2> Hi. Can anyone please upload a fixed gnome-web-photo to jaunty before the freeze? It was completely broken in jaunty (program does not start), and there is a fix with a .diff.gz already available here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-web-photo/+bug/342408
[19:46] <RainCT> okay guys, ext4 is officially evil now :P
[19:56] <mrooney> Snova: how does it install without pulling that package in?
[19:58] <Snova> mrooney: It only needs it to build. If that's what you're doing then, I probably have no idea what's going on.
[19:58] <mrooney> Snova: okay, huh
[20:06] <RainCT> asac: Hey. Does this look sane to you? http://paste.debian.net/30914    (part of the patch for bug #342408)
[20:10] <asac> RainCT: yes. seems they didnt use the mozjs glue i suggested at some point (like what google gadgets does)
[20:10] <asac> at least the title makes me think that
[20:13] <RainCT> asac: OK. What should the package depend upon, xulrunner-1.9 or xulrunner-1.9.1
[20:13] <RainCT> or just xulrunner?
[20:14] <asac> RainCT: which package links against libxul.so?
[20:15] <asac> RainCT: also ... how is the ld line would be helpful to understand the impact of this
[20:15] <RainCT> asac: gnome-web-photo
[20:15] <asac> RainCT: no. what lib links against it
[20:15] <asac> RainCT: just figure where it links against libxul in the build log please
[20:15] <asac> and show that line to me ;)
[20:18] <RainCT> asac: the only mention of libxul.so in the build log is:   dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: Can't extract name and version from library name `libxul.so'
[20:18] <asac> RainCT: its -lxul
[20:19] <RainCT> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/133201/
[20:22] <asac> RainCT: -lxpcomglue_s -L/usr/lib/xulrunner-devel-1.9.0.7/bin -lxul -lxpcom -lxpcomglue
[20:22] <asac> thats bogus
[20:23] <asac> on its own
[20:23] <asac> from: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM_Glue
[20:23] <asac> "Never link against xpcomglue.lib and xpcomglue_s.lib at the same time."
[20:23] <asac> and "Never link against xpcomglue.lib and xpcom.lib at the same time."
[20:24] <asac> but first is what is done here afaics
[20:27] <RainCT> uhm.. why isn't the -lxpcomglue in Makefile/configure? (i only see -lxpcomglue_s there)
[20:35] <asac> RainCT: not sure what they are into here ;)
[20:37] <asac> RainCT: i explained the obvious fact that we cannot link against libxul.so directly. so they are supposed to use the standalone glue to boot a xul environment
[20:37] <asac> maybe they did that now
[20:38] <asac> RainCT: they added it in Makefile.am
[20:38] <asac> -lxpcomglue
[20:38] <RainCT> uhm, got it working
[20:39] <RainCT> changing LIBXUL_LIBS="-L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/lib -lxpcomglue_s -L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/bin -lxul -lxpcom"
[20:39] <RainCT> to   LIBXUL_LIBS="-L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/lib -L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/bin -lxpcomglue_s -lxpcom -lnspr4"
[20:40] <asac> RainCT: ok so the idea is to add "embedding" to the LIBXUL macro used in configure.in
[20:40] <asac> if that doesnt work they definitly have deeper issues
[20:40] <slytherin> asac: is there any particular reason why we have version number in the directory name of xulrunner installation?
[20:40] <asac> e.g LIBXUL_INIT
[20:40] <asac> needs "embedding"
[20:41] <asac> slytherin: yes. so you cannot use -rpath
[20:41] <slytherin> asac: what is rpath?
[20:41] <asac> evil ;)
[20:41] <asac> not really evil. but in some cases
[20:41] <RainCT> asac: there is no configure.in
[20:41] <RainCT> only configure.ac and configure
[20:41] <asac> and in mozilla cases it was evil enough to take "extreme" measures
[20:42] <asac> RainCT: yeah. then .ac ;)
[20:42] <asac> i just hit TAB
[20:42] <maxb> rpath is a path to shared libraries hardcoded into the executable that wants to link to them
[20:42] <slytherin> asac: I have seen one or two packages which link against libxpcom.so, and once xulrunner is upgraded it does not work.
[20:42] <asac> RainCT: so try: LIBXUL_INIT([embedding]) ?
[20:43] <asac> yeah tahat should be right
[20:43] <asac> slytherin: right. thats why we change it so folks stop doing that
[20:43] <asac> slytherin: e.g. they use rpath or workaround by LD_LIBRARY_PATH or something
[20:43] <asac> slytherin: they must use the glue
[20:43] <asac> slytherin: if you have a list of packages, we should certainly try to fix them
[20:43] <slytherin> asac: I think it will take some time for me to understand.
[20:44] <slytherin> asac: IIRC, swt-gtk package was one of them.
[20:44] <asac> slytherin: right. for now just remember: everything that links directly against xpcom does something wrong ;)
[20:44] <RainCT> asac: I've done that and removed configure and now I got a FTBFS (GNOME_DEBUG_CHECK: command not found), and configure ends up with the same old line as before
[20:44] <asac> RainCT: why did you remove configure?`
[20:44] <asac> you need to update it not remove it
[20:45] <RainCT> so that it's created again? how do I update it?
[20:45] <slytherin> RainCT: autoreconf
[20:45] <RainCT> won't that add cruft?
[20:45] <asac> RainCT: just running autoconf is ok
[20:45] <asac> RainCT: create a patch
[20:46] <RainCT> and it still ends up with the old line
[20:46] <RainCT> what's wrong with just paching configure?
[20:46] <asac> RainCT: if you just patch configure its bad ;)
[20:46] <asac> RainCT: at least patch both
[20:47] <RainCT> I still get the FTBFS after autoreconf
[20:47] <asac> RainCT: usually you change configure.ac ... then rerun autoconf and capture that as a 99_autoconf patch or something
[20:48] <asac> RainCT: autoreconf is definitly too much
[20:48] <asac> RainCT: for me the package has a general problem
[20:48] <asac> it doesnt even build for me at all on jaunty
[20:48] <ni|> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk'.  Stop.
[20:48] <ni|> :?
[20:48] <RainCT> (and the packaging too, I doubt that went through revu ^^)
[20:49] <RainCT> ni|: is  cdbs  installed?
[20:49] <slytherin> ni|: do you have cdbs installed?
[20:49] <ni|> slytherin: yes
[20:49] <ni|> or so i think
[20:49] <ni|> the package is complete just waiting for that
[20:49] <RainCT> dpkg -l | grep cdbs;  ls /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/
[20:49] <RainCT> what does this say?
[20:49] <ni|> any reason why the cdbs docs on ubuntu.com are gone?
[20:49] <ni|> btw?
[20:50] <ni|> RainCT: i figured out my problem
[20:50] <ni|> i was b3eing stupid
[20:50] <RainCT> ni|: see file:///usr/share/doc/cdbs/cdbs-doc.html for the docs
[20:51] <slytherin> persia: If you haven't noticed already, gnome-user-share is now an official gnome module. :-)
[20:53] <RainCT> asac: can I ignore the warning about the files being from a different autoconf version?
[20:55] <ni|> RainCT: is there documentation specific to ubuntu for init scripts
[20:55] <asac> RainCT: yes. you probably have no choice ;)
[20:56] <RainCT> asac: ok.. with autoconf instead of autoreconf it still fails to build, and still doesn't modify that line in configure
[20:56] <slytherin> RainCT: did you rm'ed the directory autom4cache (or something like that)
[20:57] <asac> RainCT: well. what do you mean by diesnt modify that line in configure?
[20:57] <asac> which line?
[20:57] <RainCT> >> changing LIBXUL_LIBS="-L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/lib -lxpcomglue_s -L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/bin -lxul -lxpcom"
[20:57] <RainCT> >> to   LIBXUL_LIBS="-L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/lib -L${libxul_cv_sdkdir}/bin -lxpcomglue_s -lxpcom -lnspr4"
[20:58] <RainCT> slytherin: there's nothing like that
[20:58] <RainCT> ah wait, after autoconf there is
[20:59] <jdong> ScottK / SRU/MOTU-release type folks: Anyone mind if I approved bug 341832?
[21:00]  * ScottK isn't in motu-sru.
[21:00] <jdong> it's a "SRU" (more or less jaunty->intrepid complete backport) of a no-rdepends package completely broken in its current state
[21:00] <jdong> ScottK: no but you have sane advice on such matters :)
[21:01] <RainCT> argh that package is completely br0ken
[21:01] <ScottK> Sounds fine to me.
[21:02] <jdong> cool
[21:03] <RainCT> if I create a patch it fails to apply just after that..
[21:04] <RainCT> slytherin: and it still FTBFS after removing that
[21:04] <slytherin> RainCT: don't have any other clue. And I am felling sleepy. :-( best luck with solving that FTBFS.
[21:05] <RainCT> unless someone can give me a really convincing reason not to do so, I'll just use my fix (just patching configure)..
[21:23] <asac> RainCT: how do you plan to pathc configure?
[21:23] <asac> ah like above
[21:23] <asac> yeah do that if you want that
[21:23] <asac> but the problem is that in Makefile.am they appent the -lxpcomglue
[21:23] <asac> so you wills till end up  with that appened
[21:39] <mrooney> It seems like this is the last day to get my update in, can anyone perform it? It would be ever so much appreciated! (bug 333639)
[21:39] <mrooney> It is in my PPA, and there is also a tarball linked which can be uploaded verbatim
[21:49] <ajmitch> ScottK: rdiff-backup 1.2.5-1build1  has files in /usr/local - I can either fix this or grab 1.2.7-1 which is in Debian, it appears to be a bugfix release. Should I file a FFe for it?
[21:51] <RainCT> didrocks: *poke*
[21:58] <ScottK> ajmitch: If it's bugfix, no FFe needed.
[21:59] <ajmitch> alright, thanks
[22:02] <ajmitch> hopefully there's no change required beyond --install-layout=deb
[22:19] <didrocks> RainCT: yes?
[22:21] <RainCT> didrocks: nevermind :)
[22:21] <didrocks> RainCT: oki :)
[22:45] <ScottK> ajmitch: That's likely it.
[22:45] <cody-somerville> :) I love python 2.6
[22:46]  * ScottK suspects he is probably the guilty party for missing that the first time.
[22:46] <ajmitch> ScottK: it wasn't you on this package
[22:46] <ScottK> Ah good.
[22:47] <ajmitch> besides, from reading #u-devel, I need to strip --prefix from debian/rules before I upload it
[22:47] <ajmitch>     - The options --install-layout=deb and --prefix are exclusive.
[22:50] <ajmitch> this is now a problem, as it does appear to need --prefix to use $(CURDIR)
[22:53]  * ScottK doesn't recall removing --prefix.
[22:55] <ajmitch> this change was in a python upload about 6 hours ago
[22:56] <ajmitch> using --root appears to work
[22:56]  * ajmitch will upload after lunch