[00:00] <maco> that may have been fixed since i noticed it last month...im not sure. i didnt see any updates for it or receive bugmail for that bug though
[00:02] <LaserJock> slangasek: how long 'til Beta Freeze?
[00:03] <slangasek> LaserJock: a sunset and a sunrise again
[00:03] <LaserJock> slangasek: so end of Thursday UTC?
[00:04] <slangasek> afternoon/evening Thursday UTC
[00:04] <LaserJock> k
[00:04] <LaserJock> thanks
[00:05] <cjwatson> slangasek: heads-up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/lpia-rebuilds-20090319
[00:05] <cjwatson> slangasek: IMO we need to fix the affected libraries (esp. in main) ASAP but can perhaps defer big things like OOo
[00:06] <slangasek> cjwatson: these should be pretty automatable, yes?  just rebuilds?
[00:06] <cjwatson> I'm going to try to construct something that vaguely resembles a topological order
[00:06] <slangasek> ok
[00:06] <cjwatson> just rebuilds, but the ordering makes it exciting
[00:06] <slangasek> well, we could do all the uploads now before the freeze and sort out the ordering in LP :)
[00:07] <cjwatson> we could, but that scares me a bit more
[00:07] <slangasek> ok
[00:08] <StevenK> cjwatson: I have a few scripts I use for mass rebuilding for NBS, so if you want me to clean up after the exciting rebuilds are built, I can do it
[00:08] <cjwatson> I'll see how far I get. Thanks
[00:08] <cjwatson> I'll write a simple script for myself that fits my source tree layout, I've needed one for a while anyway
[00:10] <Hobbsee> blah.  Thanks, exploding jaunty!
[00:11] <Hobbsee> i presume the dist-upgrader called from the recovery mode is in update-manager or something?
[00:12] <Hobbsee> i've forgotten what it's acutlaly called :(
[00:12] <Hobbsee> oh, found it.
[00:16] <mrooney> Anyone know if this is a dupe / known issue? bug 344954
[00:17] <mrooney> hrm I wonder who changed it to a question
[00:17] <bryce> mrooney: is that with -intel?
[00:18] <stgraber> hmm, is there something broken with gtk on powerpc ?
[00:18] <bryce> mrooney: if so, see the lid-close quirk in the X section of the wiki.
[00:18] <bryce> mrooney: oh nm, seems not to be a lid close crash.
[00:19] <mrooney> right, just that it will suspend if set to on lid close, even when already shutting down / hibernating
[00:20] <mrooney> bryce: is that out of your area, then?
[00:20] <bryce> mrooney: yup
[00:21] <mrooney> okay, thanks then :)
[00:21] <mrooney> (hopefully see you again at UDS)
[00:21] <bryce> I'll be there :-)
[00:21] <maco> oh that one's annoying
[00:22] <maco> mrooney: or suspend twice ;)
[00:22] <mrooney> maco: haha oh no!
[00:22] <mrooney> bryce: I might be, I'll know when the sponsorship results come out!
[00:22] <mrooney> maco: have you seen that bug before?
[00:22] <maco> on kde if i click suspend then shut the lid before it finishes suspending, when i resume, itll immediately suspend again
[00:23] <mrooney> haha, killer feature
[00:23] <maco> i found a bug on gnome-power-manager that said fix released...that it wouldnt send both events. i filed a bug in kde's bug tracker for power devil doing it
[00:24] <maco> i think it was something to do with hal changes that both g-p-m and power devil handled wrong?
[00:24] <TheMuso> stgraber: whats the problem?
[00:27] <kees> anyone familiar with nscd?
[00:29]  * slangasek hisses
[00:29] <maco> mrooney: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/306310 is the one i was thinking of
[00:32] <slangasek> 306310 is specifically about multiple events showing up on ThinkPads when a single key is pressed
[00:32] <slangasek> kees: that was an affirmative 'hiss'
[00:32] <kees> slangasek: ah!  I thought in the negative.
[00:32] <kees> I'm trying to sort out the apparmor abstraction for it
[00:33] <kees> it seems that   /var/cache/nscd/{passwd,group,services,host}    r,
[00:33] <slangasek> no, the affirmative answer to that question sounds like "ha-ha"
[00:33] <kees> is desired
[00:33] <kees> heh
[00:56] <cjwatson> doko: could you fix python-tcpwrap? I'm not sure I know distutils well enough to know what I'm supposed to do
[01:00] <Ampelbein> hmm. some help please, i got a build-error for powerpc on package i updated, the buildlog says:   libebook1.2-dev: Depends: libgnome2-dev but it is not going to be installed. Full log under: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24082853/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-powerpc.cheese_2.26.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz . is this a problem with my package or can i ignore this error?
[01:01] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: that usually means that there's a problem with the archive at the moment, not with your package
[01:01] <cjwatson> or rather with the relevant build-dependencies in the archive
[01:02] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/jaunty_probs.html shows that some things are in a bad way
[01:02] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: usually you can retry once the build-dependency no longer appears in the page above, which may happen naturally
[01:02] <Ampelbein> cjwatson: ok, thanks. is the package automatically retried or should i inofrm my sponsor about this?
[01:02] <cjwatson> no, it's not automatically retried, although the buildd administrator may do a "mass give-back" (i.e. retry everything)
[01:03] <slangasek> kees: sorry, was that the extent of the question?
[01:03] <cjwatson> your sponsor has a button to retry it, although should use it responsibly to avoid tying up buildd resources
[01:03] <kees> slangasek: yeah, though I resolved it with a chroot.  var/cache is desired (not /var/run)
[01:03] <slangasek> mmk
[01:05] <Ampelbein> cjwatson: then i wait for the package to disappear from the problem list and let my sponsor know. thanks for helping me.
[01:05] <slangasek> not sure why it would be "r" though - perhaps things have changed since the last time I used nscd, but I didn't think anything accessed the cache directly aside from nscd, which would also need to write to it
[01:07] <IntuitiveNipple> Two identical Vaio notebooks. default Xubuntu installations. During boot one shows the usplash graphic the other goes blank until log-in. Where do I start looking for clues? I've already compared dmesg and kern.log line-by-line.
[01:08] <slangasek> the grub config?
[01:08] <slangasek> usplash being enabled by the 'splash' boot option
[01:09] <IntuitiveNipple> slangasek: nothing different there at all, that's the weirdness. Standard default installs. The issue is that one seems to fail to set a workable video mode.
[01:09] <kirkland> siretart: around?
[01:09] <IntuitiveNipple> The new artwork that arrived for Xubuntu today is really nice :)
[01:10] <kirkland> siretart: i think the screen-profiles package is in good shape now, for your ITP for Debian
[01:11] <Ampelbein> Can someone from ubuntu-main-sponsors have a look at bug #345168 and sponsor if everything is ok?
[01:15] <mrooney> I thought that was dropped in favor of brasero?
[01:15] <mrooney> or am I just thinking of the right-click action?
[01:17] <Ampelbein> mrooney: can you give me a hint where i can find the decision to drop it? desktop-mailing list?
[01:19] <mrooney> Ampelbein: I am not a main sponsor, just an observer with a comment, you would know more than I, I suspect
[01:19] <mrooney> Ampelbein: here is what I was thinking of: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyfive/Desktop#head-1200774a23d2266553d34d77a891d4d9a3b36ff0 , the last deprecation
[01:20] <Ampelbein> mrooney: not really. i'm not that deep with ubuntu-development and (as my questions suggest) have to rely heavily on guidance/help by others.
[01:20] <Ampelbein> mrooney: ok, but i think as long as we have nautilus-cd-burner in ubuntu we should ship the latest available version.
[01:21] <mrooney> Ampelbein: yeah I suspect you are correct
[01:21] <mrooney> hopefully someone here can help you
[01:22] <cjwatson> anyone know enough about sparc to tell me authoritatively how to fix http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24086899/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-sparc.debian-installer_20081029ubuntu26_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz?
[01:34] <cjwatson> doko: ditto cx-bsdiff, another --install-layout/--prefix conflict
[01:39] <ebroder> cjwatson: is there a list of those anywhere yet that people can help go through?
[01:39] <cjwatson> doko: what's http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24087393/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-sparc.python-pysqlite1.1_1.1.8a-3ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz about?
[01:39] <cjwatson> ebroder: I posted to ubuntu-devel, but noted that I actively don't want help with it yet
[01:39] <cjwatson> well, except feel free to look at the FTBFS
[01:40] <cjwatson> reason is I'm taking some care over dependency ordering
[01:41] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/lpia-rebuilds-20090319
[01:50] <\sh> guys, I just updated some packages for jaunty, and after that, xorg is freezing totally with weired graphics, and a total freeze of the system...
[01:54] <stgraber> \sh: ati ?
[01:54] <\sh> stgraber: yepp
[01:54] <\sh> trying to find any hint on the error...
[01:54] <stgraber> had that yesterday, installing fglrx and forcing it solved it for me though I saw a new -ati has been uploaded an hour or so ago
[01:55] <stgraber> starting X from SSH it crashed on a libdri call IIRC
[01:55] <stgraber> at least on my lappy it was only X that crashed taking the video card with it, ssh access to the laptop (had to install it from rescue mode) worked fine
[01:56] <ion_> fglrx diverts some libdri file. Try the free ati driver after removing fglrx if you have it installed.
[01:57] <\sh> ion_: you mean complete remove everything which name sounds like fglrx...
[01:58] <ion_> dpkg -S libdri and remove the fglrx package it prints.
[01:59] <\sh> ion_: ok..removed fglrx completly...only xserver-xorg-core remains with a hint on libdri
[02:00] <\sh> giving it another try ,-)
[02:00] <\sh> brb
[02:01] <emgent> emorning people
[02:01] <bryce> heya emgent
[02:02] <emgent> ;)
[02:02] <bryce> ion_: you can refer people to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/FglrxInteferesWithRadeonDriver if they're having trouble going from -fglrx -> -ati
[02:02] <ion_> Thanks
[02:03] <bryce> stgraber: yea let me know what you think of the new -ati.  Looks like it fixes a variety of bugs.  Would be nice to know if we can close any in LP as a result.
[02:03] <bryce> ion_: yeah I've been trying to flesh out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting with pages for sorting out all the common classes of X errors people run into
[02:04] <stgraber> bryce: sure, will try it.
[02:09] <Ampelbein> question: what is the difference between the -dbg and the -dbgsym packages? for example libglib2.0-0-dbg and libglib2.0-0-dbgsym both exist.
[02:13] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: -dbg: explicitly produced by the source package build, may (or may not) be a separate build pass with significant extra debugging options turned on; -dbgsym: automatically generated from the normal build process by just saving off the debugging symbols to separate files
[02:14] <Ampelbein> cjwatson: ah, ok. thanks again.
[02:15] <\sh> re
[02:16] <\sh> ion_: well, the trick with removing fglrx worked for ati..but when it's starting up into X, I lose now my whole usb stack
[02:16] <\sh> while being in textmode(rescue mode now) usb input works fine
[02:16] <\sh> tried 2.6.28-10 and 2.6.28-11
[02:16] <\sh> kernel wise
[02:18] <ion_> Anything interesting about hal in /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[02:18] <\sh> lemme check
[02:19] <\sh> config/hal: couldn't initialize context (((null)) ((null)))
[02:19] <\sh> only hint about tha
[02:19] <\sh> t
[02:21] <ion_> I’d begin by googling that error message. I haven’t encountered such problem myself.
[02:23] <YokoZar> I seem to remember pitti saying something about the keyring prompts for network manager going away in Jaunty.  Was that going to happen?
[02:25] <\sh> ion_: much better...
[02:26] <\sh> ion_: Xorg can't find core input devices (keyboard and mouse), complains about hal to be the one who gives this information
[02:28] <\sh> and it tells me to reconfigure HAL or to disable AllowEmptyInput
[02:30] <ion_> The message about being unable to locate core devices is normal. The one about being unable to initialize context is not.
[02:31] <\sh> ion_: the only match for ubuntu bug #318129 ,-)
[02:37] <ion_> sh: I take it lshal works and there’s an entry for your keyboard with “input.x11_driver = 'evdev'” in its output?
[02:41] <\sh> ion_: checking
[02:44] <\sh> ion_: hmm..I'm in the rescue system...and /etc/init.d/dbus start works.../etc/init.d/hal start doesn't
[02:48] <\sh> brb
[02:51] <calc> cjwatson: i'll be uploading OOo in a few minutes, iirc it is on the list of lpia affected packages
[02:51] <\sh> ok..hald is not running
[02:52] <\sh> ./etc/init.d/hal start|restart doesn't give a sound...
[03:07] <\sh> ok back in business
[03:07] <\sh> thx ion_
[03:07] <ion_> What was wrong with hal?
[03:08] <\sh> ion_: wasn't installed correctly...whysoever
[03:08] <\sh> --reinstall helped here
[03:13] <maco> did the archive signing key change recently?
[03:14] <maco> hello sherms
[03:14] <\sh> maco: looks like got some key warnings, too
[03:14] <\sh> from our de.a.u.c mirrors
[03:15] <maco> im using the gb mirror since the mini iso decided thats where it's going to default
[03:25] <ion_> Heh, a hole in seccomp. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=5b1017404aea6d2e552e991b3fd814d839e9cd67
[03:41] <calc> Uploading openoffice.org_3.0.1-7ubuntu1  :-)
[03:54] <seclm193> hey all
[03:56]  * stgraber uploads one more LTSP, should be the last :)
[03:57] <seclm193> i'm currious on helping with the ubuntu development
[03:58] <calc> seclm193: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate gives an overview, or is there something specifically you would like to know about?
[03:58] <seclm193> not really, this is my first opensource project, and i'm really feel like a newbie all over :(
[04:03] <calc> seclm193: good luck, if you have any questions feel free to ask here or in #ubuntu-motu
[04:03] <seclm193> ok, thank you
[04:52] <tjaalton> kees: well neither of those are used on ubuntu, but maybe just add /var/cache
[04:54] <tjaalton> kees: oh you fixed it already :)
[04:55] <kees> tjaalton: yeah, I went and installed nscd to figure out where it was keeping stuff.  :)
[04:55] <tjaalton> I'd still like to debug why some apps fail to create new files on NFS when protected by apparmor
[04:55] <tjaalton> heh
[04:56] <kees> yeah, NFS is a bit weird.  I use NFS for my home directory and it gets... confused.
[04:57] <jdong> ouch really?
[04:57] <tjaalton> anything to be done for jaunty?
[04:57] <jdong> and I thought me with ecrypfs was unlucky enough
[04:58] <tjaalton> because it's quite serious in our usecase
[04:58] <bryce> slangasek, pitti: See what you think of (and ref'd linux-acpi thread) at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config/commit/?id=7b3bfb3ec4bd9bd57d7276e792f144e8f79d19ce and let me know whether or not you'd like me to pull that patch (I'm skipping for now)
[05:09] <kees> Keybuk: what do you think of this for /lib/init/bootclean.sh?  http://pastebin.osuosl.org/24959   I had a giant /tmp and I had nothing in system start telling me what was taking so long...
[05:09] <tjaalton> jdong: noticed that you published some apparmor profiles.. I've got one for acroread and opera, which work fine on a local $HOME but not on NFS. the acroread one is here http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/foo/usr.bin.acroread
[05:09] <jdong> tjaalton: awesomeness :)
[05:09] <tjaalton> jdong: so if you have such a setup, could you try it out?
[05:09] <tjaalton> to see it's not just our environment
[05:10] <jdong> tjaalton: I will forward that to bodhi_zazen who is hosting the place, and yeah I'll play with that on my mini which has acroread
[05:10] <jdong> tjaalton: so this breaks on NFS?
[05:10] <tjaalton> jdong: cool, thanks
[05:10] <tjaalton> jdong: yes, fails to start unless you've run it on complain mode first
[05:10] <jdong> tjaalton: neat
[05:11] <tjaalton> stracing reveals that it cannot create some file, when the profile does allow that
[05:12] <jdong> tjaalton: nothing interesting in the audit logs?
[05:12] <tjaalton> jdong: nothing that can be fixed :)
[05:13] <jdong> :)
[05:14] <tjaalton> you get: operation="inode_create" info="Failed nam
[05:14] <tjaalton> e resolution - object not a valid entry" error=-2 requested_mask="a::" denied_mask="a::"
[05:16] <jdong> yeesh
[05:17] <sbeattie> is it getting lazily unmounted via automounter/autofs?
[05:17] <tjaalton> jdong: looks like the acroread profile isn't complete, it'd like to poke ~/.fontconfig/
[05:17] <tjaalton> sbeattie: no, in fstab
[05:17] <tjaalton> the server is a netapp
[05:24] <sbeattie> Hrm, curious. I can reproduce it locally if I umount -l the nfs mount, but that's not terribly surprising.
[05:27] <wgrant> What is turning my active tab orange in an ugly fashion?
[05:29] <wgrant> Ah, probably the new Murrine.
[05:31] <mrooney> wgrant: :)
[06:05] <dholbach> good morning
[06:05] <maco> hello
[06:06] <LordKow> moo
[06:45] <YokoZar> Does this mean the germans are awake
[06:45] <YokoZar> Or just dholbach
[06:45] <Mithrandir> it's 0745 in CET now, so they should be waking up
[06:45] <dholbach> YokoZar: funny you say that when didrocks turns up ;-)
[06:50] <maco> so did something happen with the archive signing keys. a net install i was doing quit mid-way through saying the keys were bad
[06:50] <maco> er, thats supposed to be a question
[07:07] <siretart> kirkland: it seems that the screen-profiles-extra package is empty for me. I cannot imagine that's intended, is it?
[07:11] <siretart> kirkland: and I really wonder where the installation commands for the screen-profiles-extras are. because there indeed seem to be profiles installed in the -extras package..
[07:16] <slangasek> bryce: hmm, I'm inclined to say we should omit that patch for jaunty because I'm not sure it won't have knock-on effects
[07:17] <soren> siretart: I thought you just said it was empty?
[07:17] <bryce> slangasek: okie, I suspected so too
[07:18] <bryce> heya tseliot
[07:18] <siretart> soren: on my laptop, but obviously not in the ubuntu archive
[07:18] <siretart> soren: I wonder what I'm doing wrong
[07:18] <tseliot> hey bryce
[07:18] <siretart> hi soren, btw :)
[07:35] <ttx> slangasek: about the CIFS timeout at shutdown, I already asked Steve French (CIFS) to comment on that bug. If you read his comments, he doesn't ack it as a bug in CIFS. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/211631/comments/84 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/211631/comments/91
[07:37] <slangasek> ttx: ah; the fact that statfs has to query other bits would be a bug not specific to cifs, yes
[07:37] <ttx> also apparently it bugs with NFS as well, see bug 113095
[07:38] <ttx> slangasek: or with openvpn, see bug 41794
[07:38] <slangasek> ttx: IME, shutting down NFS mounts when the network is absent works just fine
[07:39] <slangasek> if we're going to generalize to things like openvpn, I think an if-down.d script is the only way to do it
[07:41] <ttx> slangasek: yes, I have to look into how NM interacts with ifdown.d scripts though, istr it changed.
[08:08] <doko> pitti, slangasek: any ideas why tk8.5 is not installable on some archs? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.6/2.6.1-1ubuntu3/+build/910158
[08:12] <NCommander> doko, its installable on ia64 ATM
[08:12]  * NCommander just tried it
[08:20] <doko> NCommander: hmm, ok, requeued, seems to be installable now
[08:20] <NCommander> doko, any other architectures you'd like me to test?
[08:23] <doko> NCommander: no, requeued for now
[09:12] <pitti> Good morning
[09:13] <pitti> YokoZar: keyring prompts> the discussion died upstream, and it sort of fell through the cracks
[09:14] <pitti> doko: did the rebuild work?
[09:19] <doko> pitti: still building, but it seems so
[09:26] <dennda> Is there a list of mentors for ubuntu for GSoC 2009?
[09:30] <cjwatson> maco: no, the Ubuntu archive key has never changed
[09:30] <cjwatson> calc: ok, I hadn't finished with its build-dependencies so hopefully it worked ;-)
[09:31] <cjwatson> calc: I'll check it once i386 is published so I have a basis for comparison
[09:32] <doko> dennda: no, not yet
[09:33] <dennda> doko: Ok, thanks.
[09:34] <doko> dennda: subscribe to the soc ML mentioned on the ideas page
[10:00] <Keybuk> kees: I think we should just make /tmp a tmpfs ;)
[10:14] <cjwatson> seb128: is there a gtk+2.0 upload in the works? it's next on my list for lpia shlibdep-fix rebuilds
[10:15] <seb128> cjwatson: no
[10:16] <cjwatson> ok, cool
[10:18] <seb128> cjwatson: when did the bug stopped? ie do you have the whole GNOME to reupload?
[10:19] <PecisDarbs> is tracker disabled/not installed by default in Jaunty?
[10:19] <pitti> PecisDarbs: the latter
[10:20] <PecisDarbs> pitti: design decision I suppose?
[10:20] <pitti> yes
[10:21] <PecisDarbs> allright
[10:21] <pitti> it's just too much of a resource hog by default, especially since many people don't use it at all
[10:21] <PecisDarbs> yes, I agree
[10:21] <pitti> it remains in main, though, so you are welcome to install and use it
[10:21] <PecisDarbs> I do already
[10:21] <PecisDarbs> it is very usable for my document mess :)
[10:25] <cjwatson> seb128: 11th to the 16th
[10:25] <cjwatson> seb128:
[10:25] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/lpia-rebuilds-20090319
[10:25] <cjwatson> seb128: so not all, but some - if you have anything there that you need to rebuild anyway, let me know
[10:26] <cjwatson> seb128: I'm not so worried about applications, but I want to get the misbuilt libraries the hell out of the archive quickly :-)
[10:26] <cjwatson> asac: speaking of which, network-manager was one of the ones misbuilt on lpia. Are you planning an upload for it soonish? (not quite yet though)
[10:27] <asac> cjwatson: do we need a respin for lpia? if so i will upload something tomorrow
[10:27] <asac> or even later today
[10:27] <seb128> cjwatson: well, we will get GNOME 2.26.1 before jaunty, not sure how much you are in a hurry to fix everything
[10:27] <seb128> cjwatson: I don't plan to rebuild a lot now before beta though
[10:28] <asac> cjwatson: just tell me when we are ready to rebuild
[10:28] <pitti> wow, reading -changes@, lots of goodness went in yesterday \o/
[10:29] <cjwatson> seb128: misbuilt libraries scare me, so any misbuilt libraries I want to fix ASAP
[10:29] <seb128> cjwatson: I will upload rhythmbox now so you can cross it on your list, dunno if you keep count of everything
[10:29] <cjwatson> seb128: (${shlibs:Depends} was expanded to nothing, so it's entirely possible that configure could misdetect things from dependencies)
[10:29] <cjwatson> seb128: I'm keeping count, can you push it to a bit later today though?
[10:29] <cjwatson> seb128: it would be nice for the fixed gtk to build first
[10:30] <seb128> cjwatson: it's a new version and I want it in before the freeze which should be in 30 minutes from what slangasek said yesterday ;-)
[10:30] <cjwatson> ok, maybe I'll score it down
[10:30] <seb128> well I guess slangasek will not be up before some hours
[10:30] <seb128> I will upload after lunch
[10:30] <cjwatson> not sure I'll be able to do that before it starts building
[10:32] <seb128> we really need bin-NMU support in soyuz
[10:35] <pitti> cjwatson: since you did a nice mini-rebuild-test, was there any FTBFS fallout you need help with?
[10:35] <cjwatson> pitti: flagged as FTBFS in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/lpia-rebuilds-20090319
[10:36] <cjwatson> two due to distutils --install-layout and --prefix no longer being compatible, and one other python one that I don't understand
[10:39] <pitti> ok, thanks; none of these seem urgent to me right now; I keep the page open, and can help out with those during the beta freeze
[10:54] <MacSlow> pitti, within the next 30 min. or so you'll get a new notify-osd release (0.9.6)
[10:55] <cjwatson> phew, gtk built in time for this publisher run anyway
[10:55] <cjwatson> [on lpia]
[10:55] <apw> did we just get new backgrounds?
[10:56] <cjwatson> openldap might not make it though
[10:58] <tjaalton> hum, shouldn't the failsafe-mode be password protected if root password is set?
[11:00] <pitti> MacSlow: understood
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: did you look at the merge request from ted for the message-packaging and evolution-indicator yet?
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: no, I can do that now
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: hm, just rebooted after dist-upgrade, and now the ssh agent seems broken
[11:02] <tjaalton> which package/script is responsible for the recovery menu?
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: thanks! I'm slightly busy with other things but I can do notify-osd after lunch in exchange ;-)
[11:03] <pitti> tjaalton: friendly-recovery
[11:03] <seb128> pitti: gnome-keyring didn't change since monday, did you reboot since?
[11:03] <tjaalton> pitti: thanks
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: that's fine, I can do them, too
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: rebooting every day
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: I just did a suspend/resume, for testing whether the X hang is fixed with the new -intel driver
[11:03] <seb128> pitti: dunno then, maybe the agent crashed?
[11:03] <pitti> /usr/bin/ssh-agent is running
[11:03] <tjaalton> pitti: isn't it a toolchain problem?
[11:04] <seb128> what about gnome-keyring-daemon?
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: ah, that's it
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: I think I crashed it when setting up my 3G connection
[11:04] <seb128> pitti: ok, get me a stracktrace making sure there is no dump of your ssh key ;-)
[11:04] <pitti> will figure this out later
[11:04] <seb128> ok
[11:07] <pitti> asac: is network-manager intended to tear down my 3G connection when I just log out and back in?
[11:07] <pitti> (i. e. nm-applet restarts)
[11:10] <asac> pitti: unless you use a system connection yes.
[11:10] <pitti> asac: ah, if I tag it "make available for all users", it won't?
[11:10] <asac> user connections die when applet (or user settings seervice to be exact) goes away
[11:10] <asac> pitti: yes. thats the idea
[11:12] <pitti> asac: ah, thanks
[11:12] <pitti> asac: I did that now; It tore down the connection again, but I'll see how it behaves now :)
[11:12] <pitti> asac: where does it store system-wide connections, btw? (I saw policykit coming up)
[11:13] <asac> pitti: /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/
[11:13] <asac> its a glib keyfile for each connection
[11:14] <pitti> ah, I see; thanks!
[11:14] <asac> pitti: do you hav eissues with the prober?
[11:14] <asac> pitti: like you see two or three modem entries?
[11:14] <asac> or re-plugging the device will leave a zombie device in your applet?
[11:14] <pitti> asac: I see two after suspend/resume, or after pulling it out and plugging it in
[11:15] <pitti> but that was like that in intrepid as well
[11:16] <asac> pitti: did you have the duplication for replugging in intrepid or only for resume?
[11:16] <pitti> asac: also for replugging, I think
[11:16] <pitti> asac: it also times out a lot for me now
[11:16] <pitti> I repeatedly had to delete the connection, shut down nm/hal/nm-applet, replug, start up everything again and then enter the pin
[11:16] <asac> pitti: is that when you have duplicated devices?
[11:16] <pitti> I'll file a more detailled bug later
[11:17] <asac> ok thanks
[11:17] <pitti> today is beta rush
[11:17] <asac> true
[11:17] <pitti> asac: I didn't do a lot of debugging right now, I just wanted to get online (main internet is still broken)
[11:18] <asac> pitti: thats ok ;)
[11:18]  * pitti hugs asac
[11:18] <asac> just wanted a confirm that you see it
[11:18]  * asac hugs pitti 
[11:21]  * ogra wonders why the gksu window is so dark under compiz ... feels totally out of theme
[11:22] <ogra> MacSlow, ^^^ is that on purpose ?
[11:22] <wgrant> ogra: I feel the same about the new session termination dialogs.
[11:23] <wgrant> They seem to be the same style - it's not used outside there and gksu, AFAICT.
[11:23] <ogra> hmm, i didnt keep them long enough in my face yet
[11:23] <ogra> just clicked through quickly ...
[11:23] <ogra> but you are right
[11:23] <ogra> looks odd
[11:24] <ogra> like the brushed metal theme
[11:24] <wgrant> Yes. Somebody brought these strange translucent dialogs out of nowhere.
[11:24] <wgrant> I thought it was a Windows thing to make applications disregard the system widget libraries.
[11:26] <directhex> apple is worst for it ime
[11:26] <MacSlow> ogra, yes and no ... you're running under compiz (or metacity+compositor), right?
[11:26] <ogra> well, i'm fine with the widget look, its just the color that totally doesnt fit the rest of the theming
[11:26] <ogra> MacSlow, compiz since yesterday again
[11:26] <ogra> my X crashed to often to actually use compiz, i'm just giving it a try again
[11:27] <ogra> under metacity without composite it did fir the theme
[11:27] <ogra> *fit
[11:27] <MacSlow> ogra, there the drop-shadow of the window shows through ... I've not been able to update the patch against libgksu to use the better shadow-rendering I now use in notify-osd
[11:27] <ogra> ah
[11:27] <wgrant> Can we convince Nautilus to not fade the desktop background?
[11:27] <ogra> ok, understood ... how about making them rounded but non-transparent ?
[11:28] <MacSlow> ogra, it should look like the notify-osd bubble (but using the theme-bg color)
[11:29] <ogra> (on transparent seems easier than hacking out the shadow)
[11:29] <apw> i just did an update and for the shortest time i had 60 second timeout boxes on my logout, restart and shutdown buttons on the userswitcher
[11:29] <MacSlow> ogra, I like that ... for these kinds of "windows"
[11:29] <apw> and now they have gone away again ... but i still have the ... at the end of the names
[11:29] <apw> i assume i should have them always, if so what bit is broken
[11:30] <ogra> MacSlow, well, they are modal to the whole desktop anyway ...
[11:30] <wgrant> apw: I updated 15 minutes ago and it still works for me.
[11:31] <apw> hrm, i have never had them on any of my installs (3) and on one of the two i did today
[11:31] <apw> they appeared and confused me
[11:31] <apw> then i saw that the ...'s have appears on the two i have upgraded
[11:31] <apw> but now the box has gone away again
[11:31] <apw> i just get instant off
[11:32] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[11:32] <apw> which bit is respnosible for that, there are soooo many components
[11:32] <apw> oh hrm, i now have one on logout, but not restart
[11:32] <apw> this thing is taking drugs when i am out
[11:34]  * amitk wonders why his Jaunty fonts become bigger when he right-clicks his way to "Change desktop background"
[11:35] <Mithrandir> amitk: g-s-d starts up?
[11:36] <amitk> yes
[11:37] <amitk> Mithrandir: restarting X gets it back to being smaller again.
[11:37] <amitk> 96 dpi...hmm
[11:37] <seb128> do you have g-s-d running at session start?
[11:41] <amitk> seb128: I think so ->
[11:41] <amitk> amit      4285  0.3  0.2  29428  9180 ?        Ssl  13:39   0:00 /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon
[11:41] <seb128> dunno then
[11:44] <seb128> cjwatson: ok, I've gdm and rhythmbox updates waiting let me know when I can upload
[11:50] <ogra> grrr
[11:51] <ogra> seb128, after each upgrade the indicator applet comes back in my panel even though i deliberately removed it
[11:51] <seb128> ogra: why do you remove it? ;-)
[11:52] <ogra> because i started using my own mail notification again after the one we have is so broken
[11:52] <ogra> so i dont want that constant mail icon that forces me to use a submenu to open evo if there is new mail
[11:52] <seb128> ogra: gconftool-2 --get /apps/panel/need_add_indicator_applet
[11:52]  * wgrant points out that indicator-applet's button outline isn't visible at all in New Wave.
[11:53] <ogra> seb128, its off
[11:53] <seb128> DOH
[11:53] <ogra> but i just remved the applet
[11:53] <ogra> not sure what it was when i started the session
[11:53] <seb128> mvo: you don't use the gconf key in your migration code, you only set it but don't read it before
[11:54] <seb128> ogra: obviously bug, I will sort that with mvo when he's back from lunch
[11:54] <ogra> oki
[11:54]  * ogra would just prefer the mail notification to work right ...
[11:54] <seb128> what do you expect from it?
[11:54] <ogra> it took so many years for the builtin evo one to DTRT
[11:54] <ogra> to work like the one thats in evo now
[11:54] <seb128> which means?
[11:55] <seb128> I dislike the flashing icon
[11:55] <ogra> only show an icon if there is new mail
[11:55] <seb128> the message indicator is not evolution specific
[11:55] <ogra> else i would use the mail-notification applet
[11:55] <seb128> it lists pidgin too
[11:55] <seb128> and other softwares which will use it later
[11:55] <ogra> i dont use pidgin
[11:55] <seb128> you have an IRC client right?
[11:55] <ogra> i liked the evo icon before, i agree the flashing could have been opmitted
[11:56] <seb128> whenever it start using it you will get the IRC pings listed in the indicator
[11:56] <ogra> xchat
[11:56] <ogra> what annoys me most about the evo icon is that it enforces that silly submenu
[11:56] <ogra> and only duplicated the taskbar
[11:56] <mvo> seb128: the xdg startup deskto pfile thing reads it
[11:56] <seb128> mvo: oh right!
[11:57] <seb128> doh, I'm stupid, I even made sure it worked for me yesterday, him
[11:57] <seb128> hum
[11:57] <seb128> ogra: do you use gnome-session?
[11:57] <ogra> seb128, what else should i use, indeed
[11:57] <seb128> ogra: dunno if you are on some special mobile or arm config
[11:58] <ogra> no, its my laptop
[11:58] <seb128> grep GNOME /etc/xdg/autostart/indicator-applet.desktop?
[11:58] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ grep GNOME /etc/xdg/autostart/indicator-applet.desktop
[11:58] <ogra> OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
[11:58] <ogra> AutostartCondition=GNOME /apps/panel/need_add_indicator_applet
[11:58] <seb128> ok, so there is the autostart condition and the key is set to false
[11:59] <seb128> weird
[11:59] <ogra> a i said, i dont know what the key had whne i started the session
[11:59] <seb128> well nothing will change it to true if that's not you
[11:59] <ogra> i removed the applet before you told me to look at the key
[11:59] <seb128> the applet has nothing to do with this key
[11:59] <ogra> but removing it might change it to false
[11:59] <ogra> ah
[11:59] <seb128> it's true by default and see to false when the migration code is run
[11:59] <seb128> see -> set
[12:00] <seb128> ie once
[12:00] <seb128> then the code should never be run again
[12:00] <seb128> if you want to debug it run a non gnome session
[12:00] <seb128> run gnome-session --debug &>log
[12:00] <seb128> and copy the log somewhere or grep for indicator
[12:01] <seb128> to see if the migration code get ran
[12:02] <mvo> ogra: when you login again, do you see add-indicator-applet.py message in your .xsession-errors log?
[12:02] <ogra> seb128, will do, i have mobile meeting now, so you need to wait a bit :)
[12:03] <seb128> ok
[12:03] <seb128> brb testing the new gdm version
[12:03] <mvo> sebner: did you see any other complains/reports yet ?
[12:05] <mvo> smb_tp: re bug #341334  - so you can still reproduce this or is that only reproducable on a fresh jaunty kubuntu install?
[12:07] <ogra> asac, ugh, my url bar font in FF is totally screwed up since the last upgrade
[12:07] <ogra> err, hmm, changing focus to another window and changin it back fixed it
[12:07] <ogra> but it was swallowing half the letters
[12:10] <cjwatson> seb128: gdm is ok to go, but rhythmbox isn't yet
[12:10] <asac> ogra: ffox 3.0 or 3.1?
[12:11] <ogra> current jaunty, no idea
[12:11]  * ogra checks
[12:11] <ogra> 3.0.7
[12:11] <asac> ogra: if you have official logo its 3.0 ;)
[12:11] <asac> yeah
[12:11] <asac> ogra: my guess is that firefox needed a relayout after fontconfig/gconf changed under the hood
[12:12] <ogra> ah
[12:12] <ogra> well, i cant reproduce it
[12:13] <asac> ogra: you can downgrade and upgrade again ;); but i guess we have more important things todo ;)
[12:13] <ogra> yeah
[12:15] <cjwatson> seb128: rhythmbox has a bit of a stack involved, unfortunately - looking at it
[12:17] <cjwatson> bluez -> pulseaudio -> gnome-media -> rhythmbox
[12:21]  * pitti hugs james_w for bzr bd awesomeness
[12:21] <pitti> james_w: doing "bzr merge" and "bzr bd -S" for a sponsoring request makes things too easy! :-)
[12:52] <liw> if I see a bug that is clearly marked for the wrong package, I should fix that in launchpad, right?
[12:53] <seb128> liw: yes, where else do you want to fix it?
[12:53] <liw> the alternative was asking someone else to fix it
[12:54] <liw> (launchpad still scares me)
[12:54] <seb128> don't be scare just change it ;-)
[12:54] <seb128> scared
[12:54] <seb128> launchpad is nice once you are used to it ;-)
[12:55] <elmo> woah
[12:55] <ogra> if not you are allowed to poke it with a stick :)
[12:55] <Scix> pitti: When i call "jockey-gtk -e kmod:wl" from a bash script called by rc.local, the drivers doesn't get enabled. If i call this script manually it works. Do you have any idea about why this doesn't work?
[12:56] <pitti> Scix: I guess it has problems with not opening $DISPLAY
[12:56] <pitti> Scix: it's not a full blown CLI frontend yet, I'm afraid
[12:58] <Scix> pitti: I see. Then i have to find another solution to it. I have 20 laptops that uses this driver, and it has to be installed automagicly. Tanks for quic help :)
[13:00] <pitti> Scix: I can probably toss you a 3-line python script which does that
[13:00] <pitti> Scix: just busy ATM, I'll get back to you in a bit
[13:00] <Scix> pitti: tank you. That whould be lovely :)
[13:03] <danbhfive_jaunt1> #ubuntu-xorg
[13:12] <rtg> Keybuk: re: module-init-tools. Once I've done a debcheckout and 'bzr commit', how do I then push it? The bzr URL is http.
[13:13] <Keybuk> checkout with lp
[13:13] <Keybuk> there's probably some way to tell debcheckout that
[13:13] <cjwatson> debcheckout -a
[13:14] <cjwatson> otherwise, 'bzr push --remember lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/module-init-tools/ubuntu'
[13:14] <Keybuk> does debcheckout do a checkout or a branch?
[13:14] <cjwatson> assuming you've done 'bzr launchpad-login'
[13:14] <cjwatson> branch, oddly
[13:14] <cjwatson> that might be my fault
[13:14] <rtg> I think I'm just gonna stick to kernel packages in the future and make you guys do all the changes.
[13:14] <KaiL> does udev really need to wait until readahead it ready loading everything?
[13:15] <Keybuk> KaiL: ?
[13:15] <cjwatson> KaiL: it's faster to let readahead get on with it in one go, rather than interrupting its steady I/O
[13:15] <KaiL> ah
[13:16] <Keybuk> indeed, I posted a message on this very subject to ubuntu-devel barely days ago
[13:16] <KaiL> only saw that in my bootchart ;)
[13:18] <smb_tp> mvo, That seems to happen only on fresh system runs.
[13:19] <rtg> Keybuk: please check that I haven't borked module-init-tools, Pushed up to revision 135
[13:21] <Keybuk> rtg: looks fine thanks
[13:22] <rtg> Keybuk: thanks. I'll try to remember in the future to look for vcs line in control.
[13:24] <smb_tp> mvo, Hm, and (just verified that) after creating a new user and logging in first time. There is this window "starting akonadi server" which seems to vanish a bit quickly. A little later the crash is picked up
[13:26] <ion_> The new backgrounds are nice, but isn’t the default one simpler than the “Simple” one? :-)
[13:26] <mvo> smb_tp: thanks, I will try to reporduce it here
[13:29] <radix> pitti: Hi pitti, I'd like to point out the last comment in bug #343954
[13:29] <mvo> smb_tp: could you please pastebin the output of ls /var/lib/apt/lists ?
[13:29] <radix> oops, he's busy
[13:29] <mvo> smb_tp: I do not have a kubuntu CD yet, so I can not easily reproduce it (downloading now)
[13:30] <smb_tp> mvo, sure just a sec
[13:32] <pitti> radix: just saw and replied
[13:32]  * pitti -> lunch, bbl
[13:33] <radix> pitti: thanks
[13:34] <smb_tp> mvo, https://pastebin.canonical.com/15171/
[13:36] <cjwatson> wtf, nmap runs configure on clean
[13:36] <cjwatson> lamont: ^- madness
[13:36] <ogra> cjwatson, ...
 TOTAL_RAM=$( grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo |tr -d ': [A-Z][a-z]')
 # Do not use compcache on the liveCD if we have more than 512M
 if [ "${BOOT}" = "casper" ]; then
     if [ "${TOTAL_RAM}" -gt 524288 ]; then
[13:37]  * asac off for testing nm 
[13:37] <ogra> but on the babbage i have:
[13:37] <ogra> (initramfs) cat /proc/meminfo
[13:37] <ogra> MemTotal:         482808 kB
[13:37] <lamont> cjwatson: yeah, it does that
[13:37] <ogra> cjwatson, any objections that i lower the default a little bit ? else i end up with compcache enabled on a babbage boot by default
[13:38] <lamont> something to do with lack of a makefile for doing distclean at
[13:39] <apw> anyone remind me the name of the release notes package?
[13:39] <Hobbsee> apw: ubuntu-release-notes?
[13:40] <apw> Hobbsee, erms doesn't seem to be
[13:41] <mvo> smb_tp: could you please run http://paste.ubuntu.com/133644/ and let me know if that gives you more debug output
[13:42] <Hobbsee> apw: hrm.  No, it really seems that it is - I believe https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-release-notes is what you're after?
[13:42] <apw> yeah its not a package it seems but something else under the first button
[13:42] <apw> wibble
[13:42] <cjwatson> lamont: so if there's no makefile, don't bother calling distclean. :-)
[13:42] <smb_tp> mvo, just a sec
[13:42] <cjwatson> ogra: I don't mind
[13:43] <ogra> good
[13:44] <lamont> cjwatson: ah.  maybe
[13:44] <ogra> though i wonder why it was enabled first place, i didnt boot with boot=casper
[13:44] <lamont> it's not alone in the insanity
[13:44] <ogra> hrm
[13:44] <cjwatson> [ ! -f Makefile ] || $(MAKE) distclean is a pretty common idiom
[13:47] <Keybuk> I just do -$(MAKE) distclean
[13:47] <robbiew> i just do rm -rf :P
[13:47] <robbiew> j/k
[13:49] <cjwatson> Keybuk: lintian warns about that now, because it ignores all errors rather than just the one that should be ignored
[13:49] <cjwatson> obviously in some cases it doesn't matter
[13:50] <ion_> Cool, xserver-xorg-video-savage 1:2.2.1-4ubuntu1 fixed a problem i never got around to investigating: OpenGL apps used to hang the system after suspend.
[13:51] <cjwatson> asac: could you upload network-manager when you have a moment? gnome-keyring is done now
[13:58] <seb128> cjwatson: still something blocking rhythmbox?
[13:58] <ni|> anyone good with init scripts in here?
[13:59] <doko> cjwatson: your lpia list: python3.0, python-tcpwrap, python-pysqlite1.1, cx-bsdiff fixed, will address the other py* packages after the last python2.6 upload is built
[14:00] <cjwatson> seb128: just uploaded pulseaudio, after that needs gnome-media
[14:01] <cjwatson> doko: thanks, noted
[14:02] <calc> cjwatson: ok
[14:05] <ni|> http://www.pastie.org/private/wuleto3riecw8bkelthva
[14:05] <ni|> i can't even get to the usage aspect
[14:05] <ni|> i'm a cpp programmer not really good with bash
[14:14] <asac> cjwatson: yes. looking now
[14:22] <smb_tp> mvo, got a bit sidetracked, sorry. actually I just upgraded the whole system to latest level (it got a bit neglected since iso testing) and I am not sure this still happens
[14:26] <cjwatson> doko: not seeing your python-pysqlite1.1 upload?
[14:27] <doko> cjwatson: was just a give back
[14:27] <cjwatson> ah
[14:27] <mvo> smb_tp: ok, thanks. when my daily image is there, I see if I can still reproduce it
[14:28] <smb_tp> mvo, probably I should retry with that as well
[14:32] <mathiaz> does a binary package move to main require a full MIR? (in this case bacula is already in main, but we'd like to move some of the binary packages to main)
[14:34] <cjwatson> mathiaz: no, not if the source is already in main
[14:34] <cjwatson> any archive admin can do that on request
[14:35] <cjwatson> blink, I'm sure http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt ought not to be empty!
[14:36] <mathiaz> cjwatson: great thanks.
[14:36] <cjwatson> oh, I just caught it at a bad time
[14:42] <cjwatson> doko: nmap FTBFS, I think the same thing as the others
[14:43] <doko> cjwatson: yes, will give back after python2.6 is built. the check was too strict
[14:44] <cjwatson> ok
[14:46] <ni|> where is asio for boost
[14:47] <ni|> for god sakes
[14:47] <ni|> i installed libasio
[14:47] <ni|> -dev
[14:47] <smb_tp> mvo, That machine is still behaving a little strange (at least it looks to me). I got one jockey crash report (only the file) after logout and now it seems logging out and in, that special Desktop widget does not come up any more... I do a reboot and see what is happening
[14:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: how does the supported for 3 vs 5 years system works with the seeds?
[14:50] <mathiaz> nijaba: ie where should I put packages supported for 5 years in the seeds (for jaunty+)?
[14:51] <nijaba> mathiaz: let me refresh my mind.  would help to know what packages you are talking about
[14:52] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok - I've just added the bacula-directory-sqlite3 package to the dvd seed.
[14:52] <mathiaz> nijaba: does it mean that bacula-director-sqlite3 will be supported for 5 years?
[14:53] <nijaba> mathiaz: nope, you need to add it to one of the server specific seeds
[14:53] <ni|> so nobody uses boost for programming in here?
[14:53] <seb128> Keybuk: did you have any number on how login time the nautilus animation takes?
[14:53] <mathiaz> nijaba: server specific seeds =? the ones that are on the -server iso?
[14:54] <cjwatson> ni|: see the "not app development on Ubuntu" bit in the topic
[14:54] <cjwatson> ni|: this channel is for the development of Ubuntu itself, I'm afraid
[14:54] <nijaba> mathiaz: a good way to get a clear vision is to make a jpg from the .dot file that is generated by germinator
[14:55] <nijaba> mathiaz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.jaunty/structure.dot
[14:55] <ni|> cjwatson: apologies
[14:55] <ni|> cjwatson: any suggestion then for how to find a boost package
[14:56] <asac> ok i think i am done for pre beta
[14:56] <ni|> i've done apt-cache
[14:56] <mvo> smb_tp: seems to be fine on hte live cd, I will add a bit more robustness to install-package nevertheless
[14:56] <ni|> i'm a bsd programmer playing with linux at work
[14:57] <mathiaz> nijaba: how do I generate a jpg file from the dot file?
[14:58] <nijaba> mathiaz: using the 'dot' command
[15:00] <smb_tp> mvo, those initial crash reports seem to be gone now. But it seems the same applies to that widget. On first login it is there, all later logins it is gone.
[15:01] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: when do you want to have new base language-packs? And when the final ones?
[15:02] <nijaba> mathiaz: dot structure.dot -Tjpeg > structure.dot.jpg
[15:03] <nijaba> mathiaz: pick the most appropriate seed that you see pointing to supported-server
[15:04] <mathiaz> nijaba: excellent - thank you
[15:04] <mathiaz> nijaba: so 5 years == supported-server while 3 years == supported-desktop only?
[15:05] <nijaba> mathiaz: correct + server-ship
[15:05] <nijaba> mathiaz: the rule is: everything that is shipped on cd + whatever is in support-server
[15:06] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^ supported for 5 years - the rest is 3 years only
[15:06] <cjwatson> ni|: seems to be in libboost1.35-dev in 8.10 or newer
[15:06] <nijaba> mathiaz: supported-desktop + whatever is on the desktop cd yes
[15:06] <cjwatson> ni|: please move further questions to another channel, though
[15:07] <mathiaz> nijaba: is there a script/place to look for the supported time for a specific package?
[15:07] <nijaba> mathiaz: but for example, you do have kde package in the seeds, which for 8.04 were only supported as a normal release
[15:07] <nijaba> (18mo)
[15:07] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes, I wrote such a thing
[15:07] <mathiaz> nijaba: ah oh.. this starts to be complicated.
[15:08] <mathiaz> nijaba: there are some packages that are only in the dvd seed
[15:08] <mathiaz> nijaba: for how long are these supported?
[15:08] <ni|> cjwatson: thanks
[15:08] <nijaba> mathiaz: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-maintenance-check
[15:09] <mathiaz> nijaba: example: exim4
[15:09] <nijaba> mathiaz: dvd seed only == normal maintenance period (18mo)
[15:09] <ivoks> this should be much easier
[15:09] <ivoks> if devs don't understand it, how will users be able to do that?
[15:09] <nijaba> mathiaz: there might be mistakes though, and should be signaled as such
[15:10] <ivoks> kiss
[15:10] <nijaba> ivoks: did you try https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-maintenance-check ?  this is the user interface
[15:11] <ivoks> i haven't yet
[15:11] <asac> cjwatson: so nm is up and building for a while now.
[15:11] <nijaba> ivoks: and I did not decide of the seed structure, I just sorted things a bit so that we the above script could produce something intelligible ;)
[15:11] <ivoks> nijaba: i wasn
[15:12] <ivoks> nijaba: i wasn't accusing anyone, i'm just thinking that this should be much easier
[15:12] <nijaba> ivoks: I did not felt accused, so no issue here.  I am sure any good proposal would be gladly accepted :)
[15:14] <ivoks> tag in binary package
[15:14] <ivoks> we have 'Maintainer'
[15:15] <ivoks> it shouldn't be hard to add 'Supported-for' and 'Supported-by'
[15:16] <nijaba> mvo had in project to use the output of Ubuntu-maintence-check to tag the package in Synaptic I think.  Do not know if he ever got to it, though
[15:16] <cjwatson> ivoks: this is one of the many things we're trying to do as part of ArchiveReorganisation
[15:17] <cjwatson> (too many, perhaps)
[15:17] <cjwatson> asac: thanks
[15:18] <ivoks> cjwatson: and i support that project - i think it would be great to have per-package ACL
[15:18] <cjwatson> that's the permissions side of it, which we're now treating separately from things like exposing supportedness information
[15:18] <ivoks> i know
[15:32] <mvo> Riddell: I uploaded a new install-package and put the bzr tree into a shared location (~ubuntu-core-dev) hope thats ok with you
[15:33] <nixternal> seb128: thanks for removing me from that Evolution bug...why I was even assigned to it is beyond me
[15:33] <seb128> you're welcome, you can unassign yourself though next time if you want
[15:34] <nixternal> didn't even know I was assigned :)
[15:35] <tkamppeter> slangasek, I want to fix bug 338442 for HPLIP before Beta freeze. Usually, I always upload the current state of the Debian SVN (using an XubuntuY version number if I did the last change). Now your changes on SVN are in release 3 but your Ubunru package is 1ubuntu3 which does not appear in the SVN. Are there any reasons why you exclude Marc Purcells bug fixes in release 2 and 3?
[15:35] <Riddell> mvo: oh?  what's new?
[15:41] <mvo> Riddell: just a little bit of robustness against the apt resolver falling over
[15:48] <mathiaz> nijaba: I'm reviewing the dvd seeds and have some suggestions - should I just send them to the ubuntu-server mailing list?
[15:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: suggestions about moving some packages from the dvd seed to supported-misc-servers (thus changing their support period)
[15:49] <nijaba> mathiaz: are they mistakes or just suggestions?  if the later, then the mailing list is appropriate, I think
[15:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: some are mistakes but I've already fixed them (ex: libvirt-bin was both in dvd and server-ship)
[15:49] <nijaba> mathiaz: if they are mistakes, then fix them (ie exim should be in it already)
[15:50] <wasabi> woh. not good.
[15:50] <wasabi> i just had lvm destroy a lv during a pvmove
[15:50] <mathiaz> nijaba: most of them are suggestions (like exim -> supported, and bunch of others)
[15:50] <JontheEchidna> mvo: I have a patch for some enhancements for the KDE software-properties frontend
[15:51] <nijaba> mathiaz: exim should already be supported, AFAIK, so I would consider this a mistake
[15:51] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok. Other question (you may already have answered it though).
[15:51] <mathiaz> nijaba: packages only in dvd are supported for 3 years for LTS?
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> mvo: It's mainly more KDE integration plus one or two more small items
[15:52] <mvo> JontheEchidna: if you give me the bzr branch / uri I can have a look
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> ok
[15:53] <nijaba> mathiaz: not AFAIK, they should be considered 18mo, unless in desktop/supported-desktop -> 3y or server-ship/supported-server -> 5y
[15:54] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok - so for LTS there are actually *3* different periods of support
[15:54] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes
[15:55] <nijaba> mathiaz: even 4, if you consider universe
[15:55] <mathiaz> nijaba: right - by support I meant what's is looked after by the Ubuntu Security team in main
[15:56] <nijaba> mathiaz: which should, IMHO, be called maintenance, but that is another story
[15:56] <mathiaz> nijaba: agreed.
[15:59] <nijaba> mathiaz: oops, mistake in my above statement:  3y support depends on a packages being in ship or suported-desktop.  My reference is lines 287-288 of my maintenance-check script
[16:00] <mathiaz> nijaba: http://paste.ubuntu.com/133720/
[16:00] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^ this is my suggestion for packages to be moved from dvd to supported-misc-servers
[16:01] <nijaba> mathiaz: these are not suggestions, but mistakes, as most should already be maintained for 5y
[16:01] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok - I'll commit the changes then :)
[16:02] <nijaba> mathiaz: bacula, exim, freeradius, rddtool were all part of our review during hardy UDS in boston, IIRC
[16:03] <nijaba> mathiaz: I think we should have a page on wiki.ubuntu.com summarizing all we just exchanged, don't you?
[16:03] <mathiaz> nijaba:  I can send an email to ubuntu-server@
[16:04] <mathiaz> nijaba: the wiki page seems redundant with the bzr history.
[16:04] <JontheEchidna> mvo: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~echidnaman/software-properties/pykde4
[16:04] <nijaba> mathiaz: the email would not hurt, but the wiki was more to answer questions about seeds, duration, dot files, etc..
[16:05] <mathiaz> nijaba: ah right. I think there is already a similar wiki page.
[16:06] <nijaba> mathiaz: then it should be updated, do you know were it is?
[16:07] <mathiaz> nijaba: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement
[16:08] <nijaba> mathiaz: great.  I'll update it a bit then, hoping that archive admin are subscribe to it so that they can verify what I will be adding
[16:15] <mvo> JontheEchidna: looks good to me, but I'm no pyqt wizard - if Riddell is ok with it at this point (relatively close to beta), I'm happy to sponsor it
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~echidnaman/software-properties/pykde4
[16:15] <LaserJock> mvo: ping
[16:16] <mvo> LaserJock: pong
[16:16] <ion_> The documentation for admins mentions /srv/launchpad.net. Just out of curiosity, which network filesystem do you (Canonical) use there?
[16:16] <mathiaz> nijaba: should sqlite3 be also moved to a 5 year support?
[16:17] <LaserJock> mvo: I'm trying to use the new g-a-i flag but some .desktop files make g-a-i crash
[16:17] <mathiaz> nijaba: I think the libraries are probably supported for 5 years as a dependency for a bunch of packages.
[16:17] <LaserJock> mvo: what's a good way to debug?
[16:18] <nijaba> mathiaz: the library are for sure, yes and it does not make sense to not include the rest.
[16:19] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, mvo: go for it
[16:19] <LaserJock> slangasek: would you happen to have any room on the CD for a 32K .deb?
[16:19] <cjwatson> ion_: it's not a network filesystem
[16:19] <ion_> cjwatson: Ah, ok
[16:20] <mvo> LaserJock: what is the backtrace?
[16:20] <cjwatson> just a local filesystem that serves the launchpad.net service
[16:20] <ion_> Yeah, i see
[16:20] <LaserJock> mvo: is a bt from gdb python good enough?
[16:21] <bluefoxicy>  7443 bluefox   20   0 1407m 671m  26m S    0 18.1  35:53.76 nautilus
[16:21] <bluefoxicy> Mem:   3797500k total,  3627972k used,   169528k free,    12860k buffers
[16:21] <bluefoxicy> Swap:   787072k total,   773852k used,    13220k free,   576452k cached
[16:21]  * bluefoxicy killall nautilus.
[16:22] <mathiaz> nijaba: done - sqlite3 moved from the dvd seed to the supported-sysadmin-common seed.
[16:22] <LaserJock> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/133734/
[16:22] <bluefoxicy> Mem:   3797500k total,  3162160k used,   635340k free,    14040k buffers
[16:22] <bluefoxicy> Swap:   787072k total,   591016k used,   196056k free,   641136k cached
[16:22] <bluefoxicy> 12800 bluefox   20   0  597m 142m  19m S    0  3.8   0:03.06 nautilus
[16:23] <bluefoxicy> wow, it starts up hot needing 142megs of RAM... ubuntu system requirements++  O_O
[16:23] <LaserJock> mvo: it works fine until I click on the Education menu then it pegs the CPU. I removed some of the new .desktop files and it then worked
[16:23] <mathiaz> nijaba: The last item left in the dvd seed I'm not sure about is system-config-cluster
[16:23] <LaserJock> mvo: but I don't see any real difference between the .desktop files that worked and those that didn't
[16:24] <nijaba> mathiaz: it is definitely maintained as part of the RH cluster suite
[16:24] <mvo> LaserJock: is this a slow system?
[16:25] <mathiaz> nijaba: redhat-cluster-suite is on the cd
[16:25] <mathiaz> nijaba: the *server* cd
[16:25] <nijaba> mathiaz: but the config tool is not?
[16:26] <mathiaz> nijaba: nope - it's on the dvd
[16:26] <LaserJock> mvo: no, but I tried it in a Jaunty VM which would kinda slow and it did it as well
[16:26] <mathiaz> nijaba: note that it will all the X stuff with it.
[16:26] <mathiaz> nijaba: note that it will *pull* all the X stuff with it.
[16:26] <LaserJock> mvo: totally I had 6 .desktop files floating. Do you think it's a matter of overloading the sorting function?
[16:27] <nijaba> mathiaz: eheh, that's why...
[16:27] <nijaba> mathiaz: I thought it was a CLI
[16:27] <mathiaz> nijaba: should I leave it in dvd or move it to a supported desktop seed?
[16:28] <nijaba> mathiaz: supported-sysadmin-desktop woudl make sense
[16:28]  * mathiaz nods
[16:28] <mvo> LaserJock: oh, might be a bug in the sorting code with multiple floating ones
[16:29] <seb128> Keybuk: hey
[16:29] <seb128> Keybuk: did you see my question about the nautilus login speed difference before?
[16:30] <seb128> I see that you have uploaded nautilus now ;-)
[16:30] <seb128> upstream seems to not really with the change though ...
[16:31] <mathiaz> nijaba: allright - I don't see anything else relevant to the server team in the dvd seed.
[16:31] <LaserJock> mvo: I'll play with various combinations to see if it's specific to a .desktop or just number specific
[16:31] <cjwatson> is somebody sorting out the nautilus-cd-burner vs. brasero conflict?
[16:31] <mathiaz> nijaba: I'll send an email to ubuntu-server@ to summarize the changes I made
[16:31] <seb128> cjwatson: there is nothing to sort?
[16:32] <nijaba> mathiaz: it would also make sense to back push the changes to the previous versions of the seeds as well
[16:32] <cjwatson> seb128: clearly not true since livefses are failing to build
[16:32] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/jaunty/ubuntu/20090319/livecd-20090319-amd64.out
[16:32] <seb128> cjwatson: how come? I though we deprecated n-c-b and dropped it to supported?
[16:32] <cjwatson> seb128: nautilus recommends it, that could be it
[16:32] <cjwatson> I haven't investigated
[16:33] <seb128> cjwatson: ok, that's the issue then it's not meant to be installed
[16:33] <seb128> cjwatson: or you get cd recording items duplicated in nautilus
[16:33] <cjwatson> probably best to weaken that dependency in nautilus
[16:33] <seb128> will do that
[16:34] <cjwatson> ta
[16:36] <cjwatson> seb128: gnome-media has built now, so rhythmbox will be good to go as of about 80 minutes from now
[16:36] <cjwatson> seb128: sorry about the annoying delays
[16:36] <seb128> cjwatson: thanks
[16:36] <mvo> LaserJock: could you please try the following patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/133746/http://paste.ubuntu.com/133746/http://paste.ubuntu.com/133746/
[16:36] <mvo> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu.com/133746/
[16:36] <seb128> that's not your fault and there is no issue ;-)
[16:37] <Keybuk> seb128: about 3-4s difference
[16:38] <pitti> Riddell: kwwii mentioned that you have some trouble with a new usplash theme
[16:38] <LaserJock> mvo: trying now
[16:38] <pitti> Riddell: is that with the one in jaunty, or one in some bzr branch?
[16:38] <calc> anyone know how to do a secure erase (ata) under linux?
[16:38] <calc> eg the built in disk feature
[16:38] <pitti> calc: wow, that exists?
[16:38] <Keybuk> seb128: gnome-panel is of the same order
[16:39] <pitti> calc: my kneejerk response would have been "a 1000 degrees oven"
[16:39] <LaserJock> mvo: \o/  that did it
[16:39] <cjwatson> seb128: BTW sorry in advance if I've missed any desktop packages maintained in bzr - I think I've made bzr commits where appropriate but it's possible that I missed the odd one
[16:39] <seb128> Keybuk: what sort of config do you have? that seems really a lot for something which should just be using cpu where the hang on io usually
[16:39] <calc> pitti: yea many drives have a built in secure erase feature, but i don't know how to issue the command under linux
[16:39] <mvo> LaserJock: cool
[16:39] <mvo> LaserJock: thanks for the quick test!
[16:39] <ion_> pitti: Btw, is it expected for usplash to use 1280×1024 on a monitor with a native resolution of 1680×1050? The monitor is really to blame for screwing up the aspect ratio instead of showing the image centered or something, but would it be possible for usplash to use the native resolution?
[16:39] <calc> ah hdparm --security-erase /dev/sd*
[16:40] <Keybuk> seb128: Dell Mini 9
[16:40] <Keybuk> seb128: the GNOME login is *extremely* CPU bound
[16:40] <seb128> cjwatson: I will check but no problem don't worry
[16:40] <Keybuk> nautilus alone consumes several seconds or 100% CPU initialising its modules
[16:40] <calc> our manpage doesn't list the option so i'm not sure if its actually in it
[16:40] <Keybuk> brasero seems a notable culprit
[16:40] <Keybuk> meanwhile compiz is using a lot of CPU initialising
[16:40] <calc> http://howflow.com/tricks/secure_erase_how_to_erase_a_hard_drive
[16:40] <Keybuk> having two desktop components draw pointless little animations during that time, when they don't even reach the screen, costing 3-4s each is silly
[16:41] <calc> "The advantage of this procedure is that it even overwrites bad blocks. “Enhanced” means, that it overwrites the data with a random pattern."
[16:41] <seb128> Keybuk:
[16:41] <seb128> mars 19 15:51:02 <halfline>	this shouldn't be cpu intensive at all
[16:41] <seb128> mars 19 15:51:08 <halfline>	we're doing the compositing server side
[16:41] <seb128> mars 19 15:51:18 <halfline>	so this may be a NOTGNOME fix the driver type thing
[16:41] <seb128> Keybuk: that's from the #nautilus discussion early today
[16:41] <Keybuk> they're doing the compositing *before* compiz is started!
[16:41] <Keybuk> that's the fundamental problem here
[16:41] <pitti> calc: I like "wipe" for individual files, but so far I haven't heard about something to delete the reserved blocks; thanks for the link
[16:42] <calc> pitti: ah it is in the manpage i just didn't search properly it seems
[16:43] <Riddell> pitti: it's the Kubuntu one in jaunty
[16:43] <calc> pitti: i've been getting weird messages from my drive so i am going to reinstall this weekend after writing to the whole drive and running smart long test
[16:43] <nijaba> mathiaz: cjwatson: I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement, review welcome
[16:43] <Riddell> pitti: I can't test the ubuntu desktop one, the CDs didn't build
[16:43] <pitti> Riddell: ok, I'll give that a whirl
[16:43] <Keybuk> seb128: though you can see how badly this performs just in gnome itself
[16:43] <Riddell> pitti: this is booting off the live CD, it may well work fine at other times
[16:43] <Keybuk> change the background back and forth several times
[16:43] <Keybuk> it takes seconds to even react after a while
[16:44] <seb128> Keybuk: I've a less than 1 second cpu spike here and not user visible impact
[16:45] <seb128> but can be config dependant
[16:45] <Keybuk> seb128: on login?
[16:45] <Keybuk> remember that resources are highly contended on login
[16:45] <Keybuk> and one of the other things starting is the compositing window manager
[16:45] <seb128> my login is IO bounded, no CPU bounded
[16:45] <Keybuk> sending it 100s of full-screen textures with minor changes is not going to be a plan of awesome
[16:45] <Keybuk> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/black-jaunty-20090310-4_cropped.png
[16:46] <Keybuk> seb128: GNOME Login is very CPU bound if you take I/O out of the equation
[16:46] <Keybuk> far more than the rest of the boot
[16:46] <Keybuk> while your login might have high I/O, it turns out that it's not "all I/O"
[16:46] <seb128> right, but I can't take IO out of the equation, I've a normal old slow disk ;-)
[16:46] <Keybuk> but actually the GNOME login is vastly CPU bound *as well* :p
[16:46] <seb128> anyway as said I don't really care either way
[16:47] <seb128> upstream thinks the animation is slick and should not impact on cpu since it's mostly xorg work and will not likely drop it
[16:47] <seb128> but I'm fine having the one liner as a distro change
[16:47] <Keybuk> right
[16:47] <Keybuk> I didn't disable the animation when changing the background image
[16:47] <pitti> Riddell: oh, I see
[16:47] <Keybuk> just on startup
[16:47] <seb128> yeah
[16:47] <Keybuk> there are far *better* ways we can be slick next release
[16:47] <Keybuk> like panning/fading/zooming in the entire desktop when it's ready
[16:47] <seb128> they are speaking about having gnome-bd doing performance's estimation to enable it or not ;-)
[16:48] <Keybuk> I know, that's kinda silly
[16:48] <seb128> gnome-bg
[16:48] <Keybuk> the problem isn't that the machine isn't especially fast
[16:48] <Keybuk> it's just that it's VERY busy
[16:49] <Keybuk> at some point we should look into why nautilus takes *so long* to start
[16:49] <Keybuk> it's weird
[16:49] <Keybuk> it gets into the main loop very quickly
[16:49] <Keybuk> and even has most things responsive
[16:49] <Keybuk> but then spends another 7s or so working in the background
[16:49] <Keybuk> note that on Ubuntu, nothing is shown on screen until gtk-window-decorator is actually running
[16:50] <Keybuk> and by that point, everything is loaded
[16:50] <calc> looks like most newer drives (past year or two) support security erase
[16:50] <seb128> Keybuk: http://www.gnome.org/~federico/news-2006-03.html#08
[16:50] <Keybuk> I'm counting the boot as 25s simply because gnome-panel and nautilus are busy
[16:50] <Keybuk> otherwise it'd be 22, since that's when you can click on things
[16:50] <seb128> Keybuk: that might be outdated though
[16:50] <seb128> Keybuk: I blame gconf for a good part of it
[16:51] <seb128> and bonobo
[16:51] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah I saw
[16:51] <pitti> Riddell: does it work for you on your installed system?
[16:51] <Keybuk> I thought nautilus was de-bonobo'd ?
[16:51] <seb128> Keybuk: it is but gconf isn't
[16:51] <Keybuk> ah, right
[16:51] <Keybuk> that graph matches my own rough notes too
[16:52] <seb128> what is desrt doing, where is dconf ;-)
[16:52] <seb128> Keybuk: "This is the time from calling gtk_main() until the desktop gets painted: an enormous 2.1 seconds. Why is there such a large gap between entering the main loop and actually loading/painting the desktop? The ~/Desktop in that account is empty (it's a test account with no data in the home directory apart from dotfiles). "
[16:52] <seb128> Keybuk: yeah, he basically has the same remarks than you
[16:52] <Riddell> pitti: not tried, let me try
[16:53] <calc> hmm supposedly security erase has existed since ~ 2001 but i don't see it on my ~ 2 year old drive
[16:53] <pitti> Riddell: I'll try here as soon as the current dist-upgrade from hell finishes
[16:53] <Keybuk> seb128: did you see http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/boot-performance/stig-20090208-0940.png ? :p
[16:55] <mathiaz> nijaba: the project description of https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-maintenance-check states to not trust the output of the script
[16:55] <mathiaz> nijaba: is this still a valid statement?
[16:55] <mathiaz> nijaba: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-maintenance-check
[16:55] <seb128> Keybuk: xfce does nothing that's easy ;-)
[16:55] <Keybuk> seb128: I dunno
[16:55] <Keybuk> *their* session manager supports ... sessions
[16:55] <nijaba> mathiaz: oversight, /me fixing it
[16:56] <nijaba> mathiaz: done, thanks
[16:56] <seb128> Keybuk: the jaunty gnome-session one too now ;-) (only on logout for now though)
[16:56] <Riddell> pitti: works fine on my installed system
[16:57] <pitti> Riddell: ok, then it doesn't seem to be an issue with the THEME_VERSION or so
[16:57] <pitti> Riddell: I'll give it a shot here anyway and test it with 640x400 (which is what the live CD uses AFAIK)
[16:57] <pitti> i. e. the default resolution if /etc/usplash.conf doesn't exist
[16:58]  * pitti -> quick break
[16:58] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: new base langpacks before beta seems like a good idea to me - so ASAP, I guess, given how long they take to export?
[16:59] <seb128> hey slangasek
[16:59] <slangasek> tkamppeter: because I was fixing a bug, not following the Debian SVN tree?
[17:00] <slangasek> LaserJock: currently the alternate CDs are oversized, so... no.
[17:00] <slangasek> seb128: hi :)
[17:01] <LaserJock> slangasek: that's OK, I figured it out
[17:14] <tkamppeter> slangasek, OK, I have brought HPLIP up-to-date again now with the SVN.
[17:16] <tkamppeter> I get an FTBFS with gutenprint, probably due to packages missing on the server. It complains about
[17:16] <tkamppeter> libgimp2.0-dev: Depends: libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.10.0) but it is not going to be installed
[17:16] <tkamppeter> libreadline5-dev: Depends: libreadline5 (= 5.2-4) but it is not going to be installed
[17:17] <tkamppeter> It is on i386
[17:18] <slangasek> ember: why did you add a Conflicts: with nautilus-cd-burner to brasero?
[17:18] <slangasek> is there some reason they don't coexist?
[17:18] <ember> they provide the same thing . i.e icons on nautilus
[17:19] <LaserJock> they both add "burn to disk" menu items to the nautilus right-click menu
[17:19] <slangasek> ember: "provide the same thing" is not the definition for conflicts, though
[17:19] <seb128> slangasek: nautilus-cd-burner is not installed by default
[17:19] <slangasek> and your added conflict is breaking the CD builds
[17:19] <slangasek> seb128: yes, it is... nautilus recommends it
[17:19] <seb128> slangasek: I demoted the nautilus recommends to suggests
[17:19] <slangasek> seb128: oh, good :)
[17:20] <seb128> slangasek: cf discussion with cjwatson one hour ago
[17:20] <slangasek> heh, ok
[17:20] <ember> slangasek the only thing missing for n-c-b is nautilus which is done by seb128
[17:20] <ember> and on meta-gnome2 package
[17:20] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: they take about 2 - 3 days. Next export will start tomorrow (Friday 22:00 UTC)
[17:21] <seb128> slangasek: the issue is that if you have both you get items duplicated in nautilus
[17:21] <slangasek> yes, that still doesn't really explain why it should be a 'conflicts', which is normally meant to handle packages that cannot coexist on the filesystem
[17:21] <slangasek> seb128: well, right
[17:21] <seb128> slangasek: how do you assure than n-c-b is uninstalled on upgrade?
[17:21] <davmor2> slangasek: look at the http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/jaunty/ubuntu/20090319/livecd-20090319-i386.out current live is dated 17 and 64 bit 16
[17:21] <slangasek> seb128: <handwave> :)
[17:22] <cjwatson> davmor2: we know, it's being sorted
[17:22] <seb128> slangasek: the conflict is not optimal if you have a better idea on how to do that you are welcome ;-)
[17:22] <kees> Keybuk: I use tmp for more space than I have physical memory, so in the mean time, would it be okay for me to add that note to bootclean (especially since nearly no one runs with "verbose"...)
[17:22] <seb128> slangasek: we should perhaps make dist-upgrade clean it and declare that command line user can figure they have to clean n-c-b to not have the duplicated item issues...
[17:22] <Keybuk> kees: well, if we had swap files, that wouldn't be a problem
[17:23] <seb128> Keybuk: alex would be interested by some sort of nautilus start profile in the cpu bound case if you can get one
[17:23] <slangasek> seb128: meh.  <handwave> ;)
[17:23] <Keybuk> kees: do you use tmp for more space than you have _virtual_ memory
[17:23] <seb128> slangasek: understood ;-)
[17:23] <Keybuk> seb128: sure, if he mails me instructions
[17:24] <kees> Keybuk: sometimes, yes.  :)
[17:24] <Keybuk> kees: you're weird ;) but yes, that note is ok
[17:24] <kees> okay, I'll add it and send it to Debian.
[17:25] <seb128> Keybuk: yeah, it's probably not trivial ... strace -ttt -o log could give some datas but that's probably not really useful
[17:26] <Keybuk> seb128: trace isn't very revealing sadly
[17:26] <asac> rtg: what should i tell users that have issues with ath5k?
[17:26] <asac> are there any test packages or something they can try to provide input?
[17:35] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/jaunty_probs.html - what on earth
[17:36] <LaserJock> hmm, germinate looks screwed
[17:36] <mvo> lets hope this is not the actual state of the archive :)
[17:37] <cjwatson> it is, lots of build failures ATM
[17:37] <LaserJock> I got LP build failures for edubuntu-meta on most arch's because germinate is uninstallable
[17:37] <cjwatson> I'm building a chroot to try to drill down
[17:37] <cjwatson> LaserJock: germinate depends on python and that's uninstallable
[17:37] <cjwatson> you'll see a lot of knock-on effects
[17:37] <LaserJock> yeah
[17:38] <calc> shouldn't the old 2.6.28 kernels be removed from the archive?
[17:38] <LaserJock> seb128: screem is gone now
[17:38]  * calc notices 9 and 10 are still there
[17:38] <seb128> LaserJock: you find something else to use?
[17:38] <seb128> LaserJock: it's in universe now?
[17:39] <LaserJock> seb128: it's unseeded
[17:39] <seb128> Keybuk: so maybe sysprof?
[17:39] <LaserJock> seb128: and no packages dep on it
[17:39] <seb128> LaserJock: ok good thanks
[17:39] <cjwatson> calc: they will be at some point soon
[17:39] <slangasek> calc: yes, standard NBS material
[17:40] <LaserJock> seb128: I didn't find a replacement this late but I think it's worth dropping for Jaunty, I (we) don't have time to deal with all the bugs anyway
[17:40] <ogra> did we recently drop /etc/init.d/loopback ??
[17:40] <slangasek> never heard of it?
[17:41] <cjwatson> my lenny system does not have that init script
[17:41] <calc> slangasek: ok
[17:41] <ogra> hmm, i did get it with debootstrap when i created http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/build-arm-rootfs
[17:41] <seb128> cjwatson: your gnome-media upload is not on -changes, expected?
[17:42] <cjwatson> seb128: I didn't upload it, it was a retry of an older upload that failed
[17:42] <cjwatson> (conveniently)
[17:42] <seb128> cjwatson: ah ok, good
[17:42] <seb128> I was just checking ;-)
[17:42] <cjwatson> hmm, a jaunty chroot from this morning is perfectly *upgradeable* to current
[17:42] <seb128> thanks
[17:42] <cjwatson> including python2.6
[17:43] <tkamppeter> slangasek, I have worked on athe foo2zjs package to fix bug 338442 and uploaded it, but now it went into "waiting for approval" state, as it seems that it arrived shortly after beta freeze. What will hapen now? Will you simply approve it (it is a small change)? Or will you approve it in one week (after beta)? Or do I need to re-upload it in one week?
[17:44] <rtg> asac: ath5k on Jaunty?
[17:44] <asac> rtg: yes
[17:45]  * cjwatson tries a debootstrap straight off archive.ubuntu.com
[17:45] <slangasek> tkamppeter: the answer would never be 'reupload'.  I'll review it to see whether it should go in now or later, but I would assume 'now'.
[17:46] <rtg> asac: if the stock ath5k driver does not work, then LBM is keeping pace with upstream. Also, pitti implemented jockey support yesterday to blacklist madwifi by default, so that driver collision should go away.
[17:46] <tkamppeter> slangasek, OK. Thanks.
[17:46] <pitti> to be precise, I implemented support for unblacklisting it and blacklisting ath5k instead in jockey
[17:46] <pitti> rtg, asac ^
[17:46] <asac> fta: ^^
[17:48] <asac> rtg: what does "keeping pace with upstream" mean? are you providing latest from .29?
[17:49] <asac> or which tree are you tracking?
[17:49] <rtg> asac: yes, its currently up to date as of March 17
[17:50] <asac> rtg: so you track linus tree?
[17:50] <rtg> asac: I use compat-wreless in LBM which provides back porting support for wireless-testing. Those are the bits that go into the current upstream kernel, e.g., 2.6.29-rc8
[17:51] <rtg> so yes, in essence I am tracking Linus
[17:51] <asac> rtg: ok thanks for explaining.
[17:52] <asac> rtg: one more thing. seems we dont mirror the sources in kernel.ubuntu.com
[17:52] <asac> rtg: or am i looking at the wrong tree?
[17:53] <rtg> asac: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty-lbm.git;a=summary
[17:53] <asac> rtg: yes, but tree has no sources there how is that done?
[17:55] <rtg> asac: I don't understand. It is a  git respository of the LBM sources, which contains the current compat-wireless snapshot.
[17:56] <rtg> asac: git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty-lbm.git
[17:59] <asac> rtg: yeah. my denseness. all ok i think.
[17:59] <asac> rtg: problem is i dont see upstream commits
[17:59] <asac> that confused me
[18:00] <cjwatson> archive fuckedness is cleared up now
[18:00] <kees> pitti: so, what do we do about packages like cups which are entirely outside of Ubuntu VCS now?
[18:01] <kees> pitti: e.g. had it been a few weeks ago, I could have directly done a commit and upload for 270663.
[18:01] <rtg> asac: see debian/scripts/misc/prepare-compat-wireless.sh. It pulls stuff from the upstream repos in a chunk, though I usually reference the LBM commit message with an upstream tag from Linville's tree.
[18:01] <pitti> kees: two possibilities really
[18:01] <pitti> kees: method (1) which everyone else uses: just upload, and let me pick the diffs from launchpad
[18:01] <asac> rtg: great. that should help me to spot what i need to track in order to know whats going on in LBM. thanks
[18:02] <pitti> kees: (2) create a branch, put it on LP, and ask me to merge it
[18:02] <pitti> kees: for changes which are appropriate for Debian, method (1) is sufficient
[18:02] <pitti> kees: if you want to be nice to me, attach the patch to the bug and subscribe me, so that I can pick it from there :)
[18:03] <kees> pitti: heh, that's what I did for 270663, but I figure it still means you need to touch it.  I wanted to get it totally squared away without bothering you, and that seems not possible now.
[18:03] <pitti> kees: right, someone has to commit it to the debian branch
[18:04] <pitti> kees: well, if you want to, I'm happy to give you write access ;)
[18:04] <kees> pitti: I'm fine if that's how you want to handle it; I just wanted to save you some trouble.  :)
[18:04] <pitti> it's not like cups would have too many active maintainers..
[18:04] <pitti> kees: (run!) :)
[18:04] <kees> hehe
[18:06] <calc> anyone here running kde?
[18:06] <calc> i have a bug i would like someone to check if they have a minute
[18:19] <Keybuk> Dear Rosetta .... STFU!
[18:20] <ScottK> +1
[18:20] <stgraber> pitti: did you hear of some kind of crash of usplash at boot time ? (haven't looked in LP yet but heared a few user reports and I have that on my netbook)
[18:24] <YokoZar> pitti: could we talk about keyring prompts briefly?  I just migrated a machine to Intrepid and spent about 10 minutes + google time trying to figure out how to disable it, and only at the end of that managed to do so (in a less secure way I believe).
[18:24] <YokoZar>   The main problem is we have no "change keyring prompt" password, no way to easily set it to be just the system login password on upgrade (do we do thsi by default?), and we also have three separate places one would reasonably go to change this
[18:25] <YokoZar> Applications->Accessories->Passwords and Encryption keys, System->Preferences->Encryption and Keyrings, and System->Administration->Authorizations
[18:25] <YokoZar> The latter I quickly learned has nothing to do with this, but the second and first are very easily confused
[18:25] <ogra> pitti, seems the new usplash artwork breaks on various ltsp clients
[18:25] <stgraber> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/345269
[18:25] <stgraber> when you have encrypted LVM you just can't boot
[18:26] <stgraber> (unless you remove splash from your boot parameters)
[18:26] <bluefoxicy> that was odd
[18:26] <bluefoxicy> I got a full kernel lock-up, then rebooted and it did it again when X started
[18:27]  * bluefoxicy has 4 gigs of ram and runs out of memory using normal desktop apps (e-mail, web, chat, IM, accounting, music player) ... guesses he needs 8 gigs.
[18:28] <Keybuk> amd64 I assume?
[18:30] <directhex> you can't run out of memory & get a real lock-up on an ubuntu system. 5 minutes of lock-up with system in an inconsistent state afterwards, sure
[18:31] <directhex> run out of ram, oom_killer swoops in & kills things at random for fun
[18:31] <Keybuk> it's not at random
[18:31] <Keybuk> it's very methodical in its killing spree
[18:31] <YokoZar> can it kill itself?
[18:31] <Keybuk> more of a serial killer than mere random violience
[18:32] <directhex> hardly. the badness scoring doesn't take into account the time it takes to clean things up, so whilst if you're lucky it'll declare the real runaway process to be baddest, it'll start on other things whilst waiting
[18:32] <directhex> fortunately sshd is unkillable on ubuntu. i suppose you could get a lockup if sshd fills your ram
[18:33]  * Keybuk doesn't know what happens if the OOM killer runs out of things to kill
[18:34] <Daviey> directhex: sudo killall -9 sshd, does a pretty good job of killing sshd
[18:34] <directhex> Daviey, i mean by oom_killer
[18:34] <Daviey> ahh
[18:34] <directhex> Keybuk, hard lockup. fyi.
[18:37] <Keybuk> directhex: looks like a kernel panic to me
[18:37] <Keybuk>                         panic("Out of memory and no killable processes...\n");
[18:37] <Keybuk> so at least the keyboard lights would be flashing ;)
[18:37] <directhex> keyboard lights?
[18:37] <Keybuk> kernel panic causes the keyboard lights to flash
[18:37] <directhex> you assume i've done this on machines with a keyboard
[18:37] <Keybuk> caps lock, num lock, scroll lock, etc.
[18:38] <directhex> yeah, i know, i get that on occasion on my laptop. silly intel wifi
[18:38] <Keybuk> have you filed bugs?
[18:40] <directhex> frankly i'm astonished the driver went in at all, given it appeared on intel's git repo in alpha form a month before intrepid released. i'd need to re-test with jaunty
[18:41] <pitti> stgraber: sorry for delay, ETOOMANYCONVERSATIONS today
[18:41] <stgraber> hehe
[18:41] <pitti> stgraber: I actually didn't, but is it the bug that ogra just cited?
[18:41] <stgraber> yes
[18:41] <stgraber> we discussed it in #edubuntu first :)
[18:42] <ogra> right, it should mention the ltsp clients ...
[18:42] <ogra> which it doesnt
[18:42] <stgraber> it's not limited to LTSP
[18:42] <stgraber> I have it on my netbook with a standard install
[18:42] <ogra> but the description matches what i heard
[18:43] <pitti> YokoZar: hi
[18:43] <pitti> YokoZar: I don't think there's a possibility to configure the prompt
[18:43] <pitti> configurable security prompts are quite pointless
[18:43] <pitti> YokoZar: but this confirmation should really just be quiesced completely
[18:43] <pitti> security-wise it's pointless, and usability wise it's a nightmare
[18:43] <YokoZar> I agree with you that it should have gone away (and use the login password by default)
[18:44] <YokoZar> The question is if there's some easy workaround we can do in the meantime (there's a keyring-pam module that can be set to use the login password I think, though I'm not sure what happens if that changes)
[18:44] <pitti> YokoZar: login password> it does that; oh, you mean the dialog for the password?
[18:44] <pitti> YokoZar: I thought you meant the dialog which ask you whether you want to grant access to the keyring (to whatever)
[18:45] <YokoZar> Yeah that seems to have gone away, I mean the keyring password dialog
[18:45] <YokoZar> It is not at all obvious how to change that, or to have that just use the login password all the time by default
[18:46] <YokoZar> The current method for changing it is to open seahorse (applications->Accessories->Passwords and encryption keys), go to passwords, right click default, and then hit change password (nowhere is the word "keyring" used here)
[18:48] <YokoZar> pitti: clarifying, the password prompt asking for my keyring key is still there
[18:49] <pitti> YokoZar: ah, so you are saying that initially it works for you, but once you chagne your password, the gnome keyring passsword isn't changed alongside
[18:51] <YokoZar> Not in all cases, certainly.  In Intrepid I had both as the same password, but I would still be prompted to type the same password twice (at login and then at the keyring).  When I put Jaunty on the machine I gave it a new password in Ubiquity, but keyring is still the old one
[18:53] <TheMuso> Is there a plan to fix up the conflicts between brasro and nautilus-cd-burner, which is preventing installs/livefs builds?
[18:54] <pitti> YokoZar: ah, I see; you upgraded, or installed jaunty over intrepid, with keeping /home?
[18:54] <YokoZar> The latter
[18:54] <pitti> YokoZar: I guess in this case pam-keyring didn't have a chance to notice
[18:54] <YokoZar> Does update-manager have some voodoo to fix this that I missed?
[18:54] <LaserJock> TheMuso: I believe so yes
[18:54] <pitti> YokoZar: if you reinstall instead of upgrade, that's not update-maanger, but ubiquity
[18:55] <YokoZar> Right, hence I didn't run update-manager and missed it's magical voodoo ;)
[18:56] <cjwatson> TheMuso: yes, nautilus' recommendation of nautilus-cd-burner is being dropped
[18:56] <pitti> YokoZar: in that case, the magical voodoo is pam-keyring intercepting the passwd call :) (or rather, not being able to since you aren't using PAM for changing the password)
[18:56] <pitti> stgraber: oh, is that only lpia?
[18:56] <pitti> stgraber: I'd have an explanation for that
[18:57] <pitti> but less so for !lpia
[18:57] <TheMuso> Ok.
[18:57] <cjwatson> nijaba: reviewing
[18:57] <cjwatson> nijaba: (I'll just fix errors directly in the page)
[18:58] <YokoZar> pitti: so other than in this one case, keyring and login password are generally the same?
[18:58] <pitti> YokoZar: yes, they should be (modulo bugs in pam-keyring, but it's pretty behaving)
[18:58] <stgraber> pitti: it's a regular i386 install on a Asus EEE 1000H (atom)
[18:59] <pitti> stgraber: ok; might be similar to Riddell's issue in kubuntu usplash; I'll ask some debugging questions in the bug report
[19:00] <stgraber> pitti: sure, I'd also increase the priority if you haven't done it yet, in my case I just can't boot with usplash ...
[19:00] <YokoZar> pitti: I guess we can more or less table this discussion till UDS and our next upstream talk so we can bring up removing it again.  My case was pretty narrow (although it's still hard to disable the keyring if you want to)
[19:02] <cjwatson> nijaba: surely desktop and server support are defined as the union of seeds, not the intersection
[19:04] <nijaba> cjwatson: what was I thinking...
[19:04] <cjwatson> fixed
[19:04] <nijaba> ta
[19:04] <cjwatson> (just wanted to double-check)
[19:05] <cjwatson> right, that's enough for today
[19:05] <nijaba> have a good evening then
[19:16] <maco> is the message indicator applet tied to gdm the way fusa is?
[19:17] <pitti> stgraber: confirmed here; I'll update the bug and debug it tonight
[19:18] <LaserJock> maco: how do you mean?
[19:19] <LaserJock> fusa does things like restart, log out, etc., indicator applet doesn't do anything like that
[19:20] <maco> LaserJock: well i'm 99% sure the reason fusa doesnt work for me is that i use kdm and it cant get the domain sockets for gdm that it relies on (was reading comments in fusa's code).
[19:20] <maco> starting gnom from kdm instead of gdm is the only odd thing i can think of about my session, and the indicator applet doesnt work
[19:20] <maco> it shows "no notifications" at all times
[19:22] <LaserJock> maco: so switch to gdm and see
[19:28] <maco> wow...going to go file a wishlist bug for quassel now...netsplit detection
[20:27] <maco> kirkland: on that ecryptfs/home/preseed bug, the original report included a preseed file
[20:27] <kirkland> maco: ah, okay, i'll dig that up
[20:28] <maco> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21266763/ubuntu-desktop-experimental.seed
[20:29] <maco> my attempt at installing from the mini yesterday failed. it didnt like the archive keys, and the iso was old enough to complain about archive kernels being different. trying with a new cd
[20:30] <maco> hi
[20:31] <fargiolas> ubuntu lpia packages are specific for ubuntu-mid distribution? or is there a standard ubuntu distribution for lpia architecture?
[20:32] <fargiolas> (it's not a support question I'm evaluating opening a bug report)
[20:34] <LaserJock> fargiolas: there are CDs just like any other arch
[20:35] <fargiolas> LaserJock: so a lpia package it's not necessarly meant for use with ubuntu-mid environment, right?
[20:36] <LaserJock> well, ubuntu-mid is a part of Ubuntu so I'd say it's meant for use with an ubuntu environment
[20:36] <LaserJock> but I'm not a MID person so I can't say for sure
[20:36] <fargiolas> LaserJock: the thing is that cheese package is built with --enable-hildon on lpia archs but if lpia != ubuntu-mid it's not implied that the package will run in a hildonized desktop
[20:37] <fargiolas> (to complicate the thing even more there is a separate cheese-hildon package..)
[20:38] <LaserJock> my guess is that it's the best solution people could think of
[20:38] <fargiolas> LaserJock: the best solution is have a cheese-hildon package and build the cheese package without hildon support on every architecture
[20:38] <ScottK> fargiolas: A fair amount of work has been done to separate MID and lpia.  I'm sure it's not done.
[20:40] <fargiolas> ScottK: ok, I'll open a bug then.. btw cheese hildon mode is broken as far as I remember, but that's another story, will look into it when I have some spare time
[20:46] <pitti> Riddell, stgraber, ogra: I found the usplash theme problem
[20:46] <ogra> fargiolas, erm, cheese-hildon is already built separately
[20:47] <stgraber> pitti: cool :)
[20:47] <pitti> Riddell: I'll fix it in the kubuntu theme as well
[20:47] <ogra> fargiolas, since november ... mcasadevall worked on that
[20:47] <fargiolas> ogra: sure, but if architecture is lpia cheese (not cheese-hildon) is built with --enable-hildon
[20:48] <ogra> Package: cheese-hildon
[20:48] <ogra> Conflicts: cheese
[20:48] <ogra> Replaces: cheese
[20:48] <ogra> Architecture: any
[20:48] <ogra> no, its built on all arches
[20:48] <fargiolas> ogra: let me look for the debdiff to show you what I mean
[20:49] <fargiolas> ogra: cheese-hildon is not involved in this issue, I'm talking about the cheese package
[20:49] <ogra> talk to mcasadevall but i'm pretty sure he fixed it to build hildon and non hildon packages on lpia
[20:49]  * ogra hugs pitti 
[20:51] <fargiolas> ogra: clearly he didn't :P, from cheese_2.26-0ubuntu1.diff:
[20:51] <fargiolas> +ifeq ($(DEB_BUILD_ARCH),lpia)
[20:51] <fargiolas> +	DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS += --enable-hildon
[20:51] <fargiolas> +endif
[20:51] <ogra> as i said, talk to him if his patch doesnt DTRT it needs fixing
[20:51] <TheMuso> pitti: what is the problem?
[20:51] <TheMuso> pitti: I'm just wondering in terms of whether the studio theme may need more tweeking.
[20:51] <pitti> Riddell: I'm willing to bet that this bug (bug 345269) is the reason for the kubuntu crash as well
[20:52] <pitti> Riddell: it crashes on 640x400, but works for e. g. 1280x1024
[20:52] <fargiolas> ogra: oh sorry, I've read "thanks to" instead of "talk to" :)
[20:52] <pitti> TheMuso: there's a typo in the pulsating code which makes it crash and corrupt screen for some resolutions
[20:52] <ion_> Huh. I have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement open in Firefox. The page is fine otherwise, but the tab and page titles read “The Kernel Virtual Machine” where it should read “Seed Management”. If i open the page in a new tab, it’s fine.
[20:52] <ogra> fargiolas, :
[20:52] <ogra> cheese (2.24.1-0ubuntu2) jaunty; urgency=low
[20:52] <ogra>   * Split out Hildon specific compontents into cheese-hildon
[20:52] <ogra>   * Changed hildon build-dep to no longer be lpia specific
[20:52] <TheMuso> pitti: ah, I think our pulsating code is somewhat different. Will need to try it out at some point.
[20:52] <TheMuso> to see if we are affected.
[20:53] <pitti> TheMuso: did you ever get reports about screen corruptions halfway in?
[20:53] <ogra> fargiolas, there were various changes from other people and new upstream merges, it can easily be that his changes were broken and regressed
[20:53] <TheMuso> pitti: not so far, but unfortunately our users aren't really testing jaunty as heavily as we'd like.
[20:53] <fargiolas> mcasadevall: ping?
[20:53] <pitti> TheMuso: downloading usplash-theme-ubuntustudio to check
[20:54] <ogra> fargiolas, i.e. there were four new upstream releases since his fix
[20:54] <pitti> TheMuso: there's a lot of cut'n'paste going on in the themes, after all
[20:54] <TheMuso> pitti: yeah
[20:55] <pitti> TheMuso: nope, your t_animate_step() functions are entirely different, and they look ok
[20:55] <fargiolas> ogra: well, I'm almost sure we (upstream) didn't change anything hildon related since some time (I believe the hildon mode is almost broken) probably mcasadevall missed that ifdef
[20:55] <pitti> TheMuso: well, s/look ok/aren't affected by this bug/
[20:55] <TheMuso> pitti: right
[20:55] <ogra> fargiolas, not upstream, the person who did the merge
[20:56] <fargiolas> ogra: oh ok
[20:56] <ogra> fargiolas, i know michale fixed it properly, but afterwards four other people merged new upstream versions :)
[20:58] <fargiolas> ogra: I see :)
[20:59] <maco> if we've got the message applet and tedg's fixed pidgin so it doesnt go invisible for everyone that's not using that applet...why is pidgin still defaulting to showing the icon in the notification area at all times?
[20:59] <tedg> maco: It doesn't as of the upload today.
[20:59] <maco> guess that hasnt hit updates yet then?
[21:00] <tedg> maco: Updates meaning intrepid updates?
[21:00] <maco> no, jaunty updates
[21:00] <maco> i have a gnome-only vm to see what's breaking because i combine gnome and kde and what's breaking just fo the sake of breaking
[21:01] <maco> updated it 20 minutes ago and ran pidgin for the first time, and it defaulted to show always
[21:01] <tedg> maco: I think that it has, it should be pidgin 2.5.5-1ubuntu2
[21:03] <maco> ok, will wait for that update to reach me
[21:03] <ogra> slangasek, err, beta freeze already ? i thought that was monday
[21:03] <maco> thanks
[21:05]  * ogra curses for having read the release schedule wrong
[21:05] <ion_> keybuk: Why was the initial panel animation removed?
[21:05] <slangasek> ogra: I also sent mails... :)
[21:05] <ogra> slangasek, yes, that just got in my face on my way to bed
[21:06] <pitti> slangasek: please approve the usplash-theme-ubuntu fix I just uploaded; it's a major regression and an obvious fix
[21:06] <slangasek> sebner: is the fact that you uploaded monodevelop-java an assertion that this is bugfix-only and doesn't require motu-release approval?
[21:07]  * ogra goes to bed anyway
[21:07] <slangasek> pitti: sure, will have a look at it soon
[21:07] <seb128> slangasek: please approve the rhythmbox new version, I would have uploaded before freeze but I got asked to wait due to lpia rebuilds ;-)
[21:08] <slangasek> heh, ack
[21:08] <seb128> slangasek: the current jaunty version was a candidate version from a week ago, there is almost no change, that one is the stable version
[21:10] <ion_> pitti: usplash-theme-ubuntu.c seems to be missing usplash_theme_1680_1050, which is quite common a resolution.
[21:11] <pitti> ion_: it should pick the biggest theme that's smaller than that
[21:11] <pitti> ion_: but we can certainly add it (not beta critical, though)
[21:12] <ion_> pitti: Yeah, it picks 1280×1024 and the aspect ratio is totally wrong. The monitor can be blamed for not preserving the aspect ratio, though.
[21:13] <pregier> I'm seeing some pretty bad behavior between sun-java6-plugin and firefox-3.0 in hardy (seems to be a sour java_vm process after a couple successful applet [re]loads), but I'm not seeing any directly related reports on launchpad even though I suspect this is an old issue; does anyone know if there's a good reason (such as this likely being an upstream bug or firefox bugs being too random to consistently reproduce) why this shouldn't be reported on
[21:17] <maco> kirkland: k yeah i cant reproduce the bug again either.
[21:17] <didrocks> jelmer: around? There is a new version of evolution-mapi currently building in my ppa (~didrocks). Can you test it with an exchange server and tell me if everything's ok?
[21:18] <kirkland> maco: cool, with the preseed file?
[21:18] <pitti> slangasek: corresponding kubuntu-default-settings uploaded, too (for the kubuntu usplash screen/VT corruption)
[21:18] <maco> kirkland: no, i did it with a normal mini install, same options i chose last time when i ran into that bug
[21:21] <kirkland> maco: cool, that's what i tried yesterday, didn't see the issue
[21:21] <kirkland> maco: next, to test with a preseed file
[21:22] <maco> kirkland: i installed on the same machine where i hit it before though, so i cant see if chmod'ing the home dir back 500 brings it back
[21:22] <maco> probably shouldve used a vm
[21:24] <kirkland> maco: heh
[21:27] <pitti> Riddell: please pull lp:~pitti/kubuntu-default-settings/fix-345269 into lp:~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu
[21:28] <TheMuso> slangasek: I'd like to upload a new revision of casper to fix a long standing bug where changing orca settings would require a restart of orca, rather than orca picking up the settigns immediately. Just got to create a caster task for the bug in question.
[21:28] <TheMuso> gah typing
[21:29] <slangasek> TheMuso: sounds to me like a straight bugfix, go ahead with the upload and it'll get reviewed in the queue
[21:29] <TheMuso> slangasek: ok thanks.
[21:43] <ia> hello. i've asked about this in #ubuntu-motu and i've got advice to ask this here - i have a question about apport implementation. if i make apport-cli -f -p <package>, then it gathers information and takes me via my browser at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package/+filebug/ID. so, the question is, does exist some way to change that url to https://bugs.launchpad.net/package/+filebug/ID ? for example, if i make some project, and would like use lp
[21:43] <ia>  with apport, but my package is not in ubuntu.
[21:47] <stdin> I think looking at /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/apport/crashdb_impl/launchpad.py and /etc/apport/crashdb.conf would start you off
[21:47] <pitti> slangasek: xubuntu-artwork uploaded as well, while I am at it
[21:48] <pitti> ia: indeed there is
[21:48] <pitti> ia: but it's very rough right now
[21:48] <slangasek> pitti: ok; coming up I'm going to have to hide from the queue from a while so that I can get the release meeting agenda off :P
[21:49] <pitti> slangasek: it's not *that* urgent, just commenting on the stuff I'm uploading, since I won't approve them
[21:50] <seb128> slangasek: nice that you sponsor changes I disagree with ... ;-)
[21:50] <pitti> ia: you can set APPORT_REPORT_THIRDPARTY=1 somewhere
[21:50] <pitti> ia: e. g. when filing the bug
[21:50] <pitti> ia: but you can't specify the particular project name (for cases where package name != project name)
[21:51] <pitti> ia: that will be improved in the future
[21:52] <slangasek> seb128: well, ted persuaded me that the changes were sane; if you feel strongly, I'll accept your upload to revert it, too :-P
[21:52] <maco> haha
[21:53] <seb128> slangasek: I'm tempted
[21:53] <seb128> slangasek: that breaks string freeze, translation, has no upstream bug reference not tagging and use theme specific icon
[21:53] <cody-somerville> are we talking about rhythmbox?
[21:53] <seb128> cody-somerville: no, xchat
[21:55] <seb128> cody-somerville: what about rhythmbox?
[21:56] <cody-somerville> I can't wait until it builds :)
[22:13] <ia> pitti: oh, thank you very much - "APPORT_REPORT_THIRDPARTY=1 apport-cli -f -p git-tracker" doesn't work in intrepid, but looks like, that it works properly in jaunty; and i think, that it's really useful and amazing feature :-)
[22:14] <mr_pouit> pitti: merged, thanks for the fix :)
[22:14] <kklimonda> is there something wrong with firefox today? because i'm getting a lot of SIGSEGV and it wasn't like that yesterday.. or earlier..
[22:22] <slangasek> seb128: the package is in universe, so isn't covered by the string freeze.
[22:23]  * calc is dangerously close to 0 NEW bugs on OOo :)
[22:23] <calc> quick someone file a bug ;-P
[22:23] <jelmer> didrocks: not until next week :-( I'm away from home, don't have my VMs with me
[22:23] <ia> and another question about bug reporting - could anyone point me, please, to some howto/docs about integration app with apport - in case, that if my app crashes/quits incorrectly, then system runs apport for such app automaticly?
[22:24] <seb128> slangasek: right, it's even better so we are sure this string will be in english for all users now since there is no language packs in universe
[22:24] <seb128> I should rent again about english speaker never considering people not using english ;-)
[22:24] <seb128> rent -> rant
[22:25]  * slangasek reuploads, adding French translations
[22:25] <slangasek> :-P
[22:25] <seb128> ah ah
[22:25] <slangasek> sorry, "translation", there's only one :)
[22:25] <seb128> I don't care enough to argue longer
[22:26] <seb128> but I really see such changes are no win, they add delta, break translation, use theme specific icons ... for what
[22:27] <calc> 0 new bugs! yipee :)
[22:27] <seb128> brb
[22:30] <slangasek> seb128: well, I agree with the objection that the existing notifications are overly-verbose, and think this ought to be considered a UI bug.  The translation regression is unfortunate, but not IMHO overriding; and I was only half joking about reuploading with translations
[22:32] <seb128> slangasek: well the choice is between a bit too much verbosity and no translation, easy choice for an english speaker I would say ;-)
[22:33] <seb128> my approch for such changes would be to send upstream and wait for the next version
[22:33] <seb128> so they can get it translated etc
[22:33] <seb128> anyway that's a detail, people who care about that should be using xchat-gnome which get it right ;-)
[22:34] <seb128> slangasek: gnome-settings-daemon sent your way, that's a one line change to get a notify-osd icon for eject
[22:34] <slangasek> we could revert the last of the changes only, leaving no meaningful regression in translations
[22:35] <seb128> right, that's what I was saying to ted when he decided to convince you rather than argue with me ;-)
[22:35] <slangasek> ah, hmm
[22:35] <seb128> there is still the icon being theme specific
[22:35] <seb128> but shrug as said that's a detail
[22:35] <seb128> let's focus on jaunty beta now ;-)
[22:37] <seb128> hum, Laney has gdm counting on the liveCD, that's the second mention of a such issue this week
[22:37]  * Laney raises hand
[22:37] <seb128> is that an on purpose change or a new bug?
[22:37]  * seb128 didn't do CD testing since alpha6, let's rsync
[22:39] <seb128> slangasek: btw bug #328167 seems to be architecture or installation specific
[22:40] <slangasek> seb128: yes, from the bottom of the bug log I gather that it was really a broken kernel
[22:40] <seb128> slangasek: ie we got no such bugs from non-arm users
[22:40] <Laney> wow, good job on the new timezone chooser btw, great improvement
[22:41] <TheMuso> well I have the latest live CD here, and besides the livefs being a few days old, I get no GDM counting here.
[22:43] <Laney> this is today's daily
[22:43] <Laney> i386
[22:43] <TheMuso> let me try i386 as well then
[22:44] <TheMuso> Laney: trying in KVM first, and I'll try on real hardware next.
[22:44] <Laney> sure
[22:45] <TheMuso> ok expected behavior in KVM.
[22:45] <TheMuso> burning a disk and will try on my notebook.
[22:46] <seb128> Laney: can you look to system logs if gdm or gnome-session or xorg crashed?
[22:46] <Laney> seb128: Actually now that you mention it, it did flicker a couple of times
[22:47] <TheMuso> Laney: what video card are you using?
[22:47] <Laney> uhm, whatever the MB 5.1 has
[22:47] <TheMuso> nvidia
[22:47] <TheMuso> that might explain it
[22:47] <TheMuso> sounds like the xorg nv driver doesn't know enough about that card.
[22:49] <Laney> aha
[22:49]  * Laney spies xorg backtrace
[22:51] <TheMuso> Laney: yeah I have an MBP 4.1 and the open source nvidia driver has no trouble with it, given its an 8600MGT.
[22:51] <TheMuso> afaik the MB 5.1 has a 9400M
[22:51] <Laney> That's right
[22:52] <Laney> http://dpaste.com/16698/ <- xorg log
[22:55] <seb128> Laney: ok, so it's an xorg crash indeed, weird that it works then
[22:55] <Laney> seems to have recovered, which is commendable
[23:12] <Riddell> pitti: k-d-s merged, thanks
[23:16] <DnaX> Emesene LibNotify patch: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emesene/+bug/345660
[23:16] <DnaX> to be fixed in Jaunty!
[23:19] <DnaX> mpt: ping
[23:30] <TheMuso> Is it just me, or are gnome-terminal fonts rather big no
[23:30] <TheMuso> now
[23:38] <slangasek> I haven't seen any change here
[23:38] <TheMuso> hrm ok, will see if I have some lingering gconf settings
[23:39] <seb128> that's asac's font change
[23:39] <slangasek> what change is that?
[23:40] <seb128> slangasek: bug #345189
[23:40] <Laney> TheMuso: I see it in my clean installation
[23:41] <seb128> slangasek: the change to fix the issues on high dpi screen which have been raised since we use the xorg detected value and not 96dpi
[23:42] <slangasek> hrm
[23:45] <asac> TheMuso: yes. its a gnome-terminal bug
[23:45] <asac> TheMuso: try gnome-terminal from my ppa
[23:46] <asac> its fixed there
[23:46] <TheMuso> asac: ok thanks for the heads up.
[23:47] <asac> TheMuso: if you dont want to volunteer on participating on other font fixes, just pick the terminal bits
[23:47] <asac> TheMuso: e.g. i have a changed gtk and and settings daemon in there too.
[23:48] <TheMuso> asac: ok
[23:48] <asac> but you dont need it ;)
[23:51]  * slangasek reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/310353/comments/24 and shakes his head sadly
[23:53] <asac> slangasek: its a misunderstanding ... from what i understand this, pt has never been right except for 72 dpi screens
[23:54] <slangasek> asac: pitti has the correct definition of "pt" in that comment, so if GNOME is doing something different, that's, oy
[23:54] <asac> and px is what measures absolute size (yes, its confusing. and lots of folks complain on the net about choosing this already used word "pixel")
[23:54] <slangasek> "confusing" is one way to put it...
[23:55] <slangasek> "ass-backwards use of pre-existing font terminology" is another
[23:55] <asac> its just that "pixel" for fonts doesnt mean "pixel" on screens ;)
[23:55] <slangasek> yes, it does
[23:55] <slangasek> just apparently not in libgnome
[23:56] <asac> its not libgnome
[23:56] <seb128> libgnome has just a gconf value
[23:56] <slangasek> then where?
[23:56] <asac> everywhere ;)
[23:56] <slangasek> pango?  xft?
[23:56] <asac> yes
[23:56] <directhex> cd Riddell
[23:56] <directhex> gah
[23:57] <asac> slangasek: it comes from the html standard from what i found
[23:57] <slangasek> um
[23:57] <slangasek> the CSS standard didn't get this wrong
[23:57] <asac> they had pt defined and needed something new for something thats properly dpi adjusted
[23:58] <asac> hmm
[23:58] <asac> i understood CSS did what i ment with html
[23:58] <asac> i will research. but either its upside down everywhere or its like i thought it is ;)