[00:22] <joe-chat> Hi is anyone out there?
[00:22] <joe-chat> I am new to Ubuntu and am looking for installation help.  I don't know if this is the correct chat room.
[20:25] <newz2000> mdke: around? re: search on help.ubuntu.com
[20:26] <newz2000> I wonder if we could just re-use the search engine on search.ubuntu.com. I set up a filter so that a person can limit their search results to just documentation.
[20:26] <newz2000> Hi thorwil
[20:27] <thorwil> hi newz2000
[20:27] <newz2000> I have some feedback for you
[20:27] <newz2000> do you have a min?
[20:27] <thorwil> i'll brb, then i will
[20:28] <newz2000> ok
[20:32] <thorwil> newz2000: back
[20:33] <newz2000> hey thorwil
[20:33] <newz2000> funny story for you...
[20:33] <newz2000> so you know how sometimes you give a person two pieces of art to consider and you're sure they're going to pick A because its' the obvious choice but instead they pick B?
[20:34] <newz2000> Well, regarding the countdown banner we want the one with the coloured logo. :-)
[20:34] <thorwil> some designers use tricks like less nice backgrounds to make things like that less likely :)
[20:34] <newz2000> sorry
[20:34] <newz2000> They're asking for the logo text to be white
[20:35] <thorwil> who's they?
[20:35] <newz2000> I've not seen the artwork in question but I guess this is going to make it very harmonious with the cd covers
[20:35] <newz2000> sorry, I went to Julian, design lead, and Kat, corporate identity
[20:35] <newz2000> They have to sign off on anything that is deemed "official"
[20:36] <newz2000> They both liked your work
[20:36] <thorwil> i ask because i wondered if it could be escalated
[20:36] <newz2000> There's no one higher that you'd want to talk to. :-)
[20:38] <thorwil> newz2000: colored logo and white logo text is so awful i have to consider to withdraw my work
[20:39] <newz2000> oh, please don't
[20:39] <newz2000> I know it's a compromise but it really is great and it's well liked
[20:40] <thorwil> it leads to a disconnection. i would have a problem putting it into my portfolio like that
[20:40] <knome> i agree with thorwil
[20:40] <knome> white text on that banner wouldn't look good.
[20:40] <newz2000> thorwil: have you met Julian yet?
[20:40] <knome> it might work with the cd covers, but not a web banner.
[20:40] <thorwil> newz2000: we said hi in the artwork channel, that's all
[20:41] <thorwil> newz2000: guess i have to see if i can catch him tomorrow
[20:41] <thorwil> newz2000: he's in london these days, right?
[20:41] <newz2000> yes
[20:41] <newz2000> he idles here often but recently left for the day
[20:42] <thorwil> i really don't want to be a diva, but my test in front of me causes almost physical pain
[20:43] <thorwil> newz2000: the only other way i see would be to make the numbers and text in the 3d graphics also white/close-to
[20:44] <newz2000> thorwil: I also have some feedback on the stuff for the animated banner
[20:44] <thorwil> good
[20:45] <newz2000> basically the only request is for the first slide
[20:45] <newz2000> people aren't liking the desk
[20:45] <newz2000> the best suggestion is to do an LCD monitor and keyboard
[20:45] <newz2000> Do you think that would be possible?
[20:46] <thorwil> yes. boring, but yes
[20:46] <newz2000> It's interesting the range of emotions I got on this particular work.
[20:47] <newz2000> Julian actually went from strongly disliking it to thinking you were brilliant as I explained how it was going to work.
[20:47] <thorwil> newz2000: heh. what did he think initially how it would work?
[20:47] <newz2000> He didn't understand how it was animated and how quick the transitions will be
[20:48] <thorwil> newz2000: and where does he see brilliance? ;)
[20:48] <newz2000> Communicating a message clearly and quickly I guess.
[20:48] <newz2000> The problem is if you stare at them closely you can pick them to pieces, but no one will be staring at them. They'll only be there for a moment.
[20:49] <newz2000> Except for the first one that is...
[20:49] <newz2000> which is a key point
[20:49] <newz2000> because the animation shouldn't start until the images are loaded, so the first one has to be really good stand alone
[20:49] <thorwil> i see
[20:50] <thorwil> newz2000: will we have a no-javascript solution for bloggers this time?
[20:50] <newz2000> I think we'll just use a static of the last frame
[20:50] <newz2000> but yes
[20:51] <thorwil> good. otherwise i would have to think of something entirely different, remembering the requests from last time
[20:51] <MadsRH> thorwil: Sorry for interrupting, but where can I see your slide images? Is there a public link?
[20:51] <newz2000> MadsRH: they're on the wiki...
[20:51] <knome> MadsRH, it's the countdown banners wiki page
[20:51] <newz2000> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners
[20:52] <MadsRH> of course :-[ thanks
[20:52] <knome> newz2000, http://82.181.114.252/rime/jscript/rotator/test2.html
[20:52] <knome> newz2000, is that any better?
[20:53] <newz2000> knome: a little, but not quite
[20:53] <newz2000> Why don't you stick the images in there that thorwill made
[20:53] <knome> newz2000, any direction to point to?
[20:53] <knome> right.
[20:53] <newz2000> well, the actual slide needs to be quick
[20:53] <newz2000> .25 seconds or so
[20:53] <newz2000> and about 2 seconds between transitions
[20:53] <knome> .25 secs but smooth?
[20:53] <newz2000> maybe .4 seconds
[20:54] <newz2000> but yes
[20:54] <newz2000> look at the one by Pierre and see how his is timed
[20:54] <newz2000> I haven't looked closely at the code yet http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/PierreCarousel
[20:55] <newz2000> http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/PierreCarousel/countdown.html is the frame
[20:55] <knome> newz2000, it uses mootools.
[20:55] <newz2000> knome: yours does?
[20:55] <newz2000> the other is jquery I think
[20:56] <knome> newz2000, no, his onw.
[20:56] <knome> one
[20:56] <knome> newz2000, and it's not mine, it's my codemonkeys ;)
[20:56] <newz2000>   google.load('jquery', '1');
[20:56] <newz2000> jquery via the google ajax api
[20:56] <knome> we don't use google nor something like that. only js
[20:57] <newz2000> I saw that. Clever.
[20:57] <newz2000> Don't be afraid to stand on the shoulders of giants.
[20:57] <newz2000> ;-)
[20:57] <knome> he is a clever codemonkey.
[20:57] <knome> he doesn't want bananas, he wants beer.
[20:57] <newz2000> You get two free cookies if he can do it with YUI3
[20:57] <knome> (and money, occasionally)
[20:57] <newz2000> (virtual cookies)
[20:58] <knome> i'm seriously thinking whether i should possess him this challenge.
[20:58] <knome> but i think i won't :P
[20:58] <newz2000> Well, I don't really care what is used
[20:58] <newz2000> The end result is the important part
[20:59] <knome> right. what i care is about is that it's really non-dependant on heavy libs.
[20:59] <newz2000> that's fine too. The smoothness and the timing of the transition on Pierrre's is quite good. I'm not sure what makes the difference.
[21:00] <knome> it's something mootools does. it does some slide transition tweaking.
[21:00] <newz2000> maybe. (it's jquery btw) ;-)
[21:02] <newz2000> wow, how clever... look at this:
[21:02] <newz2000>     $.get("http://developer.yahooapis.com/TimeService/V1/getTime", {
[21:03] <knome> http://82.181.114.252/rime/jscript/rotator/test3.html
[21:03] <knome> yes, i wouldn't want to refer to yahooapis.com
[21:03] <knome> is that better ^
[21:04] <newz2000> there's somethign wrong with the dimensions
[21:04] <thorwil> newz2000: 9.04 white, too?
[21:05] <knome> newz2000, dimensions? what  could that be?
[21:05] <newz2000> thorwil: let me check my chat history
[21:05] <newz2000> knome: I don't know, big white gaps
[21:05] <knome> newz2000, right. refresh
[21:05] <knome> it's cached css.
[21:06] <newz2000> knome: better. The delay between transitions is good, the actual transition could be quicker
[21:06] <newz2000> thorwil: still looking, sorry for delay
[21:06] <mdke> newz2000: hi
[21:06] <newz2000> hey mdke
[21:07] <newz2000> thorwil: the exact words are "with white Ubuntu"
[21:07] <newz2000> so I'd say leave the version number as it is
[21:09] <knome> newz2000, http://82.181.114.252/rime/jscript/rotator/test3.html
[21:09] <knome> newz2000, (again) - better?
[21:09] <newz2000> knome: looking sharp!
[21:10] <knome> is that good or bad? :P
[21:10] <newz2000> it's good
[21:10] <thorwil> it does weird things here
[21:10] <knome> right. anything else to tweak?
[21:10] <knome> thorwil, like what?
[21:11] <thorwil> knome: it left gaps between the slides and stopped in the middle of 2 slides on first load
[21:11] <thorwil> knome: but now it works after F5
[21:11] <newz2000> thorwil: shift+reload
[21:11] <knome> thorwil, refresh css.
[21:11] <thorwil> ah, ok
[21:11] <knome> thorwil, that was just cached css.
[21:11] <thorwil> all hail caching
[21:12] <newz2000> knome: only one more change for now, add one more frame, use this image: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_ring_colored_24_days.png
[21:12] <newz2000> actually, maybe decrease the delay between the transitions. If it's 2.0s now then try 1.8s
[21:12] <knome> right :P
[21:12] <thorwil> knome, newz2000 it would be better to have the 1 px black border left in place, instead of having it as part of the slides
[21:13] <newz2000> yes, I agree
[21:13] <knome> thorwil, i thought that cam from your images...
[21:13] <thorwil> knome: yes, because i didn't think of sliding
[21:14] <thorwil> if the border can be added on top, i can remove it from my images
[21:14] <thorwil> but now i have to go, good night! :)
[21:14] <newz2000> don't sweat it for now thorwil
[21:14] <newz2000> ok, good night thorwil, thanks for your help
[21:15] <newz2000> mdke: what do you think about the search engine suggestion, should we try to make it work with search.ubuntu.com so we only need to maintain one?
[21:15] <mdke> newz2000: is there an email about this that I missed?
[21:15] <newz2000> no, just mentioned it above
[21:15] <newz2000> basically
[21:15] <mdke> newz2000: ah, scrolling up
[21:15] <newz2000> search.ubuntu.com already has a filter for limiting searches to documentation
[21:15] <newz2000> (which is help.ubuntu.com)
[21:16] <mdke> as long as the results cover the same sites as the current website and are weighted in the same way, i think that would work
[21:16] <mdke> although I guess the header might be inconsistent with the help website
[21:17] <newz2000> lets see if it's technically feasable
[21:17] <newz2000> if so we can have a different search results page
[21:18] <mdke> ok. Dustin has been very good at google search so he can probably help answer any technical questions
[21:18] <mdke> and he has access to the config with the weighting rules
[21:18] <newz2000> oh, you've already started building another one?
[21:18] <mdke> basically we weight the latest stable release docs higher than others, and then the community ones below that, broadly
[21:18] <mdke> newz2000: we've had one since October, but it has adverts
[21:18] <newz2000> oh, I see
[21:19] <newz2000> well, what you describe is actually a good idea
[21:19] <newz2000> I'll talk to Dustin about it, see if he knows a way to send a parameter in with the search to automatically use the documentation filter. If so we'll put your weighting into ours (since it seems logical)
[21:19] <mdke> that's great
[21:21] <mdke> feel free to check out help.ubuntu.com/search.html for the search we have now
[21:35] <knome> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/
[21:35] <knome> newz2000, fallbacks to frame 6 if no JS
[21:35] <knome> newz2000, slides are now showed 1.8s
[21:35] <newz2000> looks good
[21:36] <newz2000> I'll show it off to a few people and get some feedback
[21:36] <knome> sure, no problem.
[21:36] <newz2000> You may want to hide frame 6 using js until after frame 1 loads
[21:37] <newz2000> it seems to be loading quicker than frame 1
[21:37] <newz2000> but that is a good idea
[21:39] <knome> that might be a bit of a problem. i don't know.
[21:40] <knome> the fallback frame is defined in css, which will obviously load before js, is the js script is included after.
[21:40] <knome> i shall ask what we can do
[21:41] <knome> ok, the thing is investigated.
[21:42] <newz2000> one thing you can do is just use an img tag in a noscript tag
[21:43] <newz2000> and if you put that last then it will load afterwards
[21:43] <knome> right..
[21:43] <newz2000> well, technically it won't load at all unless js is off
[21:43] <knome> the noscript?
[21:44] <newz2000> if js is turned on the <noscript><img ...></noscript> is ignored
[21:46] <knome> right.
[21:54] <knome> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/
[21:54] <newz2000> knome: awesome, good work
[21:55] <knome> i'll forward your thanks to the author :)
[21:55] <knome> though he might just pop in himself..:P
[21:56] <newz2000> I'll send it to people and get feedback. I can't wait to see it with the final image
[21:56] <knome> yeah.
[21:56] <knome> it's highly possible we will use it with xubuntu as well :)
[21:57] <knome> newz2000, meet rime, the author of the JS
[21:57] <newz2000> hi rime!
[21:57] <rime> hi newz2000!
[21:58] <newz2000> ah, this is nice:
[21:58] <newz2000> frameDelays[0] = 1000 * 1.8;
[21:58] <knome> yes.
[21:58] <knome> that was the original spec, wasn't it?
[21:58] <newz2000> that will make it very easy to tweak when it comes time to do final adjustments
[22:07] <newz2000> see you later, gonna upgrade to jaunty
[22:07] <knome> see you newz2000