[00:15] <calc> ugh i found a fun bug to fix for jaunty... debian bug 517782
[00:15] <calc> it appears the naming of some myspell dictionaries are not lang_country which cause OOo 3.0 not to see them
[00:18] <calc> at least someone else already found all the packages i have to fix
[00:19] <bryce> hi calc
[00:19] <calc> bryce: hi
[00:20] <slangasek> calc: hrm, why is that not considered a bug in OOo itself?  TTBOMK, all other locale handling deliberately falls back to ll when ll_CC is unavailable.
[00:21] <calc> slangasek: hmm perhaps it is a bug in OOo then i didn't know how that fallback worked
[00:22] <calc> of course normally OOo doesn't even use system dictionaries it uses weird plugin crap for that, so the patch may just not be sufficient
[00:28] <cjwatson> unexpectedly I can't find confirmation of this in 'info gettext', but I agree with slangasek - that's the way gettext works and that's the way I've made sure man-db implements it (one of the relatively few other bits of free software I'm aware of that needs to have its own locale handling)
[00:29] <cjwatson> we only use country codes where necessary in the rest of Ubuntu, because for instance Austrians don't want to do all their de_AT translations independently, mostly they just want to reuse the German ones
[00:30] <cjwatson> there are a few cases where it is necessary - the classic ones are pt vs. pt_BR and zh_CN vs. zh_TW
[00:30] <calc> ok, i'll see if i can find the code that checks for the dictionary so i can make it fall back
[00:30]  * calc wonders if this is in libhunspell or in OOo
[00:35]  * calc wonders where in the 3gb of source code the dictionary selection code happens to be
[00:46]  * calc thinks he found the code
[00:58] <calc> looks like it should fall back to the language but it is using c++ operator overloading so it must be buggy somewhere
[01:04] <cowbellemoo> Hyia all.  Can anyone recommend a good print manual for source management, compilation, and package creation for ubuntu?
[01:06] <calc> hmm actually it looks like it doesn't use that part of the code, heh
[01:16] <xxtjaxx> Hi guys I want to make a patch for the network manager that is constantly disturbing people along each and every new boot is somebody here who is involved in it?
[02:30] <Ampelbein> erm... is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24200096/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.seahorse_2.26.0-0ubuntu2~ppa6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz a problem with my package or with the build-farm? it complains that: After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:gnupg2(still installed)
[02:49] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: something in your build-depends pulls in gnupg2, which is then listed in your build-conflicts so it has no other alternative but to fail
[02:50] <cjwatson> Ampelbein: seahorse Build-Depends: libgpgme11-dev Depends: libgpgme11 Depends: gnupg2. (The last bit is a recent addition; I haven't looked into why.)
[02:50] <cjwatson> bug 305565 apparently
[02:52] <cjwatson> I've left a comment in that bug
[02:54] <Ampelbein> cjwatson: ok, thanks for looking into the issue.
[02:56] <cjwatson> I've also filed bug 346591 and marked it release-critical
[03:01] <Ampelbein> cjwatson: i've looked into debian bug #407800 which was resolved by adding the build-conflicts. i will see if seahorse builds and works without it, since the code has been rewritten since.
[03:04] <Ampelbein> i remember there being a conflict when both gnupg-agent and seahorse-agent are running. let's see... bug #217270
[03:06] <Ampelbein> and i think the build-conflicts is rather pointless without the appropriate conflict for gnupg-agent.
[04:05] <UsamaAkkad> hello
[04:05] <UsamaAkkad> http://paste.ubuntu.com/135186/
[04:05] <UsamaAkkad> please check this , should I report a bug or it's just brainstorm
[04:10] <calc> UsamaAkkad: bug report, i think the bug report should be worded such that when installing and network is available to ask user if they want to install updates at that time
[04:11] <calc> UsamaAkkad: netinstall means something somewhat different and is already available without a gui
[04:11] <UsamaAkkad> yes in the minimalcd
[04:12] <calc> adding a gui to the netinstall cd would probably make it much larger
[04:12] <calc> UsamaAkkad: where is the debian gui netinstall cd? last time i worked with debian it didn't have a gui one, but that was some time ago
[04:12] <UsamaAkkad> http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
[04:13] <UsamaAkkad> I talked on #debian and someone told me that it has GUI
[04:13] <calc> wow they are huge
[04:13] <calc> 180MB
[04:13] <UsamaAkkad> yeah
[04:14] <calc> debian does have a small iso as well but apparently its not mentioned on that page
[04:14]  * calc thinks he remembers where those are
[04:14] <JanC> IIRC debian's netinstall is larger than Ubuntu's anyway  ;)
[04:15] <calc> eg http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[04:15] <UsamaAkkad> by the way nice talking to someone that was in Debian team :)
[04:15] <calc> that is equivalent to the Ubuntu net install iso i think
[04:15] <UsamaAkkad> ok but you don't have equivalent to their 180 iso :)
[04:15] <calc> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/gtk/mini.iso <- hmm that is interesting
[04:15] <JanC> yeah, and seems like it's smaller than I remembered too
[04:15] <calc> i wonder what that does
[04:16] <calc> if that is really a gui netboot install then that would be a nice thing to have for Ubuntu as well i suppose
[04:16] <JanC> calc: probably the Gtk frontend for debian-installer ?
[04:16] <UsamaAkkad> yeah
[04:16] <calc> JanC: yea maybe so
[04:16] <calc> JanC: its only 15MB though which isn't bad
[04:17] <calc> i had expected it to be much bigger
[04:17] <JanC> I think it doesn't use X, just fb
[04:18] <JanC> but I have to go to sleep, have to get up again in 2h   ;)
[04:18] <UsamaAkkad> so do I have to report any thing or you will take care of it
[04:18] <calc> wow yea its gui
[04:18] <calc> UsamaAkkad: i don't do installer stuff so yes report it
[04:19] <calc> UsamaAkkad: probably both as wishlist bugs
[04:19] <vieq> calc, what he means replace Ncurses with ubiquity
[04:19] <calc> cjwatson: ^ perhaps interesting ideas for installer
[04:19] <calc> vieq: yea
[04:20] <UsamaAkkad> the big netinstall iso and the live cd with network installation choice right?
[04:20] <calc> i've worked on the installer for debian before but that was like 8 years ago, heh long time ago
[04:20] <vieq> calc, :) old guy
[04:21] <calc> vieq: :-P heh
[04:21] <calc> i'm young enough that my first real *nix experience was with linux at least :)
[04:21] <calc> it just happened to be 14 years ago, lol
[04:22] <iulian> Hehe
[04:22] <vieq> :D
[04:23] <vieq> calc, seriously how much would it expand the minimal-cd
[04:24] <vieq> I mean if ubiquity was added
[04:26] <calc> vieq: looks like gtk for debian doubles the size of the i386 cd (~ 7-8MB extra)
[04:26] <calc> not sure how big ubiquity is
[04:27] <calc> however its also possible that it is ncurses to dissuade people from using it ;-)
[04:27] <calc> since netinstall does use a lot of bandwidth
[04:27] <vieq> it would be cool if the whole thing was like 30-50MB ISO
[04:28] <calc> not more than a cd download but if people did it every time that way instead of sharing a cd then it adds up
[04:29] <vieq> :|, yub
[04:30] <vieq> thanks guys
[04:38]  * calc is less than 1% away from 90% triaged :)
[06:03] <TheMuso> /c/c
[08:55] <UsamaAkkad> hello, I could not find the name of the installer while I'm trying to report a bug
[08:55] <UsamaAkkad> what is its name
[08:56] <RAOF> Ubiquity is the livecd installer; debian-installer is the alternate CD installer (I believe).
[08:56] <UsamaAkkad> thanks
[08:59] <zyga> doko: ping
[09:02] <YokoZar> hmm, ubuntu-restricted-extras isn't installable from add-remove
[09:03] <zyga> YokoZar: does it have desktop files?
[09:03] <YokoZar> zyga: No it's there but when you click it it tells you to open synaptic
[09:03] <YokoZar> zyga: probably because it depends on something that conflicts with libavcodec which comes by default
[09:04] <Hobbsee> YokoZar: patches welcome.  I hear rumours about this every once in a while, but no one's done anything about it
[09:05] <zyga> oh
[09:05] <zyga> I think that having synaptic+add remove by default is a bad idea
[09:06] <zyga> add/remove should be a syntaptics tab called "applications"
[09:06] <YokoZar> most users should never open synaptic as it is
[09:06] <zyga> but it's in the menu
[09:06] <zyga> and you have to use it because add/remove tells you to
[09:06] <YokoZar> the system administration menu
[09:06] <zyga> especially when removing stuff
[09:07] <YokoZar> the same scary place we put all the other tools people don't want to touch
[09:07] <zyga> but they have to because add/remove is incomplete
[09:07] <YokoZar> zyga: the fact that add/remove tells you to is a bug which is why I said hmm about it ;)
[09:07] <zyga> fair enough
[09:09] <UsamaAkkad> hello , I want to report a bug . it's read but can you take a  look at it before I post it
[09:09] <UsamaAkkad> http://paste.ubuntu.com/135277/
[09:09] <UsamaAkkad> *ready
[09:10] <UsamaAkkad> and this report confused me
[09:10] <UsamaAkkad>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/154245
[09:11] <YokoZar> UsamaAkkad: does the live cd session make an internet connection for you?
[09:11] <UsamaAkkad> yes it can make
[09:11] <YokoZar> Ubiquity won't even bother looking for updates if there's no network connection active I don't think
[09:12] <YokoZar> In such a case it has to install as is and reboot before updates are viable
[09:13] <YokoZar> But in the other case the point is well understood.
[09:13] <podman99b> hey guys and gals... how long till ubuntu support n-trig multi-touch??
[09:14] <UsamaAkkad> so I should go with reporting the bug right?
[09:15] <Hobbsee> podman99b: please don't cross-post
[09:15] <podman99b> soz... but some peeps are not in all rooms ... and all rooms seem relevant post... but +1 has my back. Thanks ne way and sorry
[09:21] <UsamaAkkad> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/346682
[09:21] <UsamaAkkad> calc, I've reported the firs issue :)
[09:28] <maco> Hobbsee: up for a sponsorship?
[09:42] <Nafallo> slangasek: so far so good. survived the night :-)
[09:59] <UsamaAkkad> I want to report this bug too. any idea
[09:59] <UsamaAkkad> http://paste.ubuntu.com/135295/
[10:03] <cjwatson> UsamaAkkad: there is no need to report that
[10:04] <UsamaAkkad> why
[10:04] <cjwatson> UsamaAkkad: because it's already in progress and will hopefully happen for 9.10 if we can get all the libraries in order
[10:04] <UsamaAkkad> nice , did  you see the other bug ?
[10:04] <UsamaAkkad> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/346682
[10:05] <cjwatson> yes, but it's not sensibly fixable
[10:05] <cjwatson> a GUI netinst is a much more practical approach
[10:05] <UsamaAkkad> mmm
[10:06] <UsamaAkkad> it's reported any way. maybe someone will take care of it :)
[10:06] <cjwatson> ubiquity, by design, installs the system by copying it file by file from the live CD; it doesn't install most of the system by installing packages
[10:06] <cjwatson> installing updates in ubiquity would basically just mean installing the system and then running an upgrade
[10:06] <cjwatson> and why bother, update-manager is much better at that
[10:06] <cjwatson> it would be extra complexity in ubiquity for very little benefit
[10:07] <cjwatson> if ubiquity were installing the updated packages from the network in the first place, that would be different, but it can't really do that. That isn't what ubiquity is for
[10:07] <UsamaAkkad> yeah I see
[10:08] <UsamaAkkad> thanks for taking time to look at these things
[10:09] <cjwatson> Debian unstable's GUI installer, I believe, is currently broken for the exact same reason that made us be unable to do a GUI netinst for 9.04 ;-)
[10:10] <UsamaAkkad> :)
[10:10] <UsamaAkkad> which is?
[10:14] <cjwatson> UsamaAkkad: it relies on the GTK directfb frontend, which isn't very well-maintained upstream and was completely broken in GTK 2.14
[10:15] <cjwatson> sorry, GTK directfb backend, not frontend
[10:29] <UsamaAkkad> thanks
[11:00] <UsamaAkkad> can any one tell me what is missing from this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/251378
[14:30] <freddyav> Hi all! I'm sorry if this is a misplaced question; I'm looking at converting a 32bit app/lib to 64 bit and I would need some help since all I get is a seg fault. Where do I go for this kind of help> Please>
[14:54] <frevi645> I tried to port a 32bit-only app & lib to 64 bit. Got is to compile and link and now I get this: http://pastebin.ca/1368040 Is there any way to get more information on what is going on??
[15:14] <cardona507> hello?
[15:46] <BUGabundo> question: what's the easiest way (aka nongeek) to add PPA keys to Softwares Sources?
[15:47] <BUGabundo> question: what's the easiest way (aka nongeek) to add PPA keys ?
[15:47] <BUGabundo> I use that
[15:47] <BUGabundo> sudo apt-key adv --recv-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com
[15:48] <BUGabundo> but can't keep telling new users to open a terminal and write that
[15:48] <jdong> BUGabundo: there's a Software Sources GUI app in system->administration for a reason ;-)
[15:48] <BUGabundo> should Software Sources have a field to enter key as well as PPA line?
[15:49] <jdong> I believe it's a separate tab of the same application.
[15:49] <BUGabundo> jdong I know about that.. but it doesn't have a way to enter a PGP key
[15:49] <BUGabundo> just file import
[15:49] <jdong> correct.
[15:49] <BUGabundo> so back to my question: easiest way?
[15:49] <jdong> the process of receiving keys is the job of the GPG utility :)
[15:50] <BUGabundo> too apps its not easy
[15:50] <jdong> frankly the easiest way is "open up a terminal and paste this:"
[15:50] <BUGabundo> not for new users
[15:50] <BUGabundo> I know!
[15:50] <BUGabundo> duh
[15:50] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:50] <BUGabundo> but Ubuntu is for Human Beings
[15:50] <jdong> there's nothing "wrong" with opening up the terminal and pasting things you don't understand.
[15:50] <BUGabundo> not geeks that love Terminator
[15:50] <jdong> lol I used to work Windows TS and we did the same thing in Windows land.
[15:50] <BUGabundo> jdong actually there is
[15:50] <jdong> "ok I'm gonna e-mail me this .reg file, just double click it"
[15:50] <BUGabundo> I teach my students not to do it
[15:51] <BUGabundo> if they don't trust source
[15:51] <jdong> lol from someone you trust.
[15:51] <jdong> if you haven't established trust on how to add the repo you shouldn't be adding the repo in the first place :)
[15:51] <BUGabundo> jdong we are breaking the webring of trust
[15:51] <BUGabundo> there's no use for PPA signed keys
[15:52] <jdong> PPA signatures are just for tamper evidence.
[15:52] <jdong> I don't think there's much of a point apart from that
[15:52] <BUGabundo> with an anoyning POPUP
[15:53] <BUGabundo> ok.. filing a wishbug
[15:54] <cjwatson> the reason for PPA signatures is to ensure that packets are not being tampered with in transit, which is useful
[15:54] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA has non-console directions
[15:55] <cjwatson> every single PPA page links to that ...
[15:56] <BUGabundo> cjwatson: I know! but the reason is that common Users should NOT have to use a terminal
[15:56] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: did you read what I said, or the page I linked to?
[15:56] <BUGabundo> opening
[15:56] <cjwatson> it includes directions that do *not* involve using a terminal
[15:56] <cjwatson> although as it happens the terminal directions are probably simpler :-)
[15:57] <BUGabundo> 4 steps??
[15:57] <BUGabundo> copy, paste into gedit (doesn't mention how to open it), save, import?
[15:58] <jdong> sigh do we really need *TRUSTIFY ME NOW* buttons everywhere like impulse buying on Amazon? :)
[15:58] <BUGabundo> not trust me
[15:58] <BUGabundo> ... just a field to paste the key!
[15:58] <BUGabundo> and then cross check with server
[15:59] <jdong> your key came from launchpad via HTTPS anyway. What else is there to cross check?
[15:59] <BUGabundo> already opened https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/38781
[16:00] <BUGabundo> jdong well then why do we get a popup telling us, we don't trust it?
[16:00] <BUGabundo> its either a bug of UI
[16:00] <cjwatson> remember that anyone can create a PPA, including Dr. Evil
[16:00] <cjwatson> so I'm not sure we want to make it too trivial
[16:00] <BUGabundo> or apps not trusting what they should
[16:00] <BUGabundo> cjwatson: having a field to paste *manually*
[16:00] <BUGabundo> is not any unsecure then terminal paste
[16:01] <cjwatson> I don't believe I used the word "secure", which would be a silly word to use in this discussion
[16:01] <cjwatson> security is not a binary state
[16:01] <BUGabundo> ok
[16:01] <BUGabundo> sorry for assuming so
[16:01] <BUGabundo> it should be Trust
[16:40] <calc> does lack of binary packages cause something to be NEW?
[16:40] <calc> if it drops a binary package i meant to say
[16:41]  * calc will be dropping a couple of broken packages with his next OOo upload
[16:41] <cjwatson> calc: no
[16:41] <calc> ok
[16:41] <cjwatson> calc: they won't vanish from the archive immediately though; they will show up in our not-built-from-source (NBS) listing
[16:41] <calc> ok
[16:42] <Nafallo> slangasek: so far three suspend/resumes without crashes.
[16:44] <Pollywog> I am confused about how to specify debugging when building a deb, apparently this has changed. I am not certain which is correct, DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS:= --enable-debug or DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS+= --enable-debug
[16:45] <Pollywog> and I have tried to find the information on my own
[16:46] <cjwatson> Pollywog: unless DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS was previously set to something else, those two will have exactly the same effect
[16:47] <Pollywog> cjwatson: ty
[16:47] <cjwatson> see the documentation on setting variables in 'info make' for more information
[16:47] <Pollywog> thanks I will do that
[16:49] <Pollywog> I thought it was Debian-specific so I did not look there
[16:49] <Pollywog> since it is part of debian/rules
[16:49] <Pollywog> looking at it now
[16:50] <cjwatson> DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS is a cdbs variable and so Debian-specific; the difference between += and := is just make syntax
[16:50] <Pollywog> thanks
[18:29] <maco> Keybuk: i hear you're the person to talk to about patches to util-linux
[18:30] <Keybuk> maco: as in writing some?
[18:30] <Keybuk> or wanting to apply some?
[18:30] <Keybuk> or being blamed for some?
[18:30] <maco> applying
[18:30] <Keybuk> I can certainly take a look
[18:30] <Keybuk> though you should probably get it upstream
[18:30] <maco> ther's a bug with a patch attached to define HFS+ in fdisk
[18:30] <maco> it's bug 318871
[18:31] <maco> is upstream for util-linux the same as upstream for linux
[18:31] <maco> ?
[18:31] <Keybuk> no
[18:31] <Keybuk> I'll take a look at the patch on Monday, and submit it upstream if so
[18:32] <Keybuk> need to make a package of git master anyway
[18:41] <maco> ok
[18:48] <Keybuk> ooh
[18:48] <Keybuk> AJAX duplicate marking
[18:48]  * Keybuk swoons
[18:49] <maco> hahaha
[18:50] <maco> now if only "you cant mark this as a dup, it has dups" would auto-resolve itself...
[18:50] <directhex> tsk, AJAX
[18:51] <ion_> AJAX the term sucks, but AJAX the functionality is for the win. :-)
[18:51] <ion_> Except for the stupid restrictions for cross-domain requests.
[18:57] <Keybuk> I always assumed it was a joke about flash
[18:59]  * directhex dispatches war rocket Keybuk, to bring back its body
[19:00] <Keybuk> flash and ajax are both kitchen cleaners
[19:00] <directhex> i thought ajax was more of a bathroom scouring powder
[19:04] <maco> er...AJAX is an acronym though....
[19:04] <maco> (the not-cleaner AJAX)
[19:05] <directhex> ajax is EVIL MICRO$HAFT TECHNOLOGY
[19:05] <directhex> needs a good hard boycottin'
[19:06] <Keybuk> why?
[19:07] <directhex> well, teh micro$ofts! why else?
[19:09] <Keybuk> :D
[19:10]  * Keybuk hides his vista pc
[19:10]  * ogra secretly injects a virus into Keybuk's vista PC while he doesnt look 
[19:11]  * Keybuk secretly inserts a running chainsaw into ogra while he's not looking
[19:11] <ogra> *Grin*
[19:12] <Keybuk> give me a version of iTunes and Lightroom for Linux and I'll get rid of it ;)
[19:12] <directhex> bloody hate itunes. still praying for a banshee port for windows
[19:12] <calc> oh no, i just noticed (again) i have no way to see bugs that are not upstream (eg upstream == valid) that are triaged (ie bugs i need to fix myself)
[19:12] <Keybuk> 1) banshee can't talk to my iPhone
[19:12] <ogra> directhex, i doubt banshee can connect to the store
[19:13] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it can, if you flip a bit.
[19:13] <Keybuk> 2) banshee is so abysmal that it uses 1.5GB of virtual memory, and brings my machine to a near halt, just to play a couple of tracks
[19:13] <directhex> Keybuk, well there's your problem right there
[19:13] <directhex> hm, problem 2 sounds odd
[19:13]  * calc thinks he has a bug filed about this against soyuz perhaps i need to bump it up to critical
[19:13] <calc> er launchpad not soyuz
[19:14] <cjwatson> calc: YM a search that the advanced search page doesn't let you perform?
[19:14] <cjwatson> calc: have you tried using the Launchpad API to do it?
[19:14] <calc> bug 291968
[19:14] <directhex> someone who cares ought to start a "buy the guy who broke the last iTunes encryption crap an iTouch" fund
[19:14] <calc> if you hide upstream bugs then even bugs that are marked invalid are hidden
[19:14] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: http://iphonefreakz.com/2009/03/06/howto-sync-your-iphone-20-with-linux/ lets you at least sync from Linux.
[19:14] <cjwatson> you could at least get a list of bug numbers that way and unblock yourself
[19:14] <Mithrandir> whether you like the UI or not is something else, of course.
[19:15] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: requires me to jail break the iphone, no?
[19:15]  * Keybuk isn't doing that
[19:15] <Keybuk> (though I did cheerfully upgrade it to a beta OS :p)
[19:15] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: sure.
[19:15] <calc> cjwatson: hmm i'll see if i can determine how to do it with launchpad api, thats just via python right?
[19:15] <directhex> my banshee-1 process is marked as using 79.5 meg of rams right now
[19:15] <directhex> so 3x less than firefox
[19:15] <cjwatson> calc: right, with the python-launchpadlib package installed
[19:15] <directhex> more than evo though. how sad
[19:15] <cjwatson> it takes a bit of getting used to but I've found it insanely useful
[19:15] <calc> cjwatson: ok i'll see what i can do with it
[19:16] <calc> cjwatson: essentially with large numbers of bugs there is no longer a way via the website to determine which bugs are Ubuntu bugs and which are really upstream :\
[19:16] <calc> for small numbers of bugs you can just look at them and see individually, heh
[19:16] <directhex> you know, i've never run gnome-system-monitor on my altix. someone remind me to try it on monday, to see whether it tries to graph all 256 cores
[19:18] <cjwatson> calc: you probably want to keep the launchpadlib-based query reasonably small just to make things easier, so you just need the search with status_upstream=hide_upstream, plus a search for bugs with invalid upstream tasks
[19:18] <cjwatson> the latter via launchpadlib
[19:19] <calc> ok
[19:20] <calc> cjwatson: are there any example scripts for basic use of the launchpadlib?
[19:21] <cjwatson> calc: help.launchpad.net/API, and try looking around in the ubuntu-dev-tools package or in ~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk for some random examples
[19:21] <calc> ok thanks
[19:21] <cjwatson> and indeed help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib specifically
[20:18] <ruiserra> need help with a problem with a firewire camera. if someone can help me please
[20:23] <nhandler> ruiserra: Try #ubuntu for support
[20:24] <calc> wow i just had a discussion with a debian person who thinks the fact that Ubuntu is user-friendly is the main problem with it, lol
[20:24]  * calc shakes his head, engrained elitism is alive and well in Debian it seems
[20:25] <ebroder> Are there any particular rules for getting a package added to ubuntu-standard? I think that "patch" falls under the metapackage's description :)
[20:26] <calc> ebroder: i don't see any developer tools in ubuntu-standard list
[20:26] <calc> ebroder: i think its already pulled in by other things like dpkg-dev
[20:27] <ebroder> *shrug* Ok. Maybe I have a skewed view of what a "comfortable command-line Unix-like environment" is. I can accept that
[20:29] <calc> ebroder: you might want to install build-essential as well
[20:29] <calc> ebroder: it pulls in a few other things that might be of use to you, devscripts as well
[20:29] <ebroder> Sure - I have that on most of my machines, except the ones that I don't do dev work from
[20:30]  * calc hardly ever uses patch when doing dev work
[20:51] <calc> cjwatson: how do you get all the bugs for a given package in Ubuntu?
[20:52] <calc> cjwatson: i'm not seeing the way to pull a bug list for a package but i might not be looking in the right place
[20:53] <cjwatson> calc: get hold of the distribution_source_package object and then use getBugTasks on it
[20:54] <cjwatson> (and then you can use .bug on each task if you like)
[20:55] <calc> ok, looking for that now :)
[20:57] <calc> ah launchpad.distributions["ubuntu"].main_archive
[21:12] <calc> cjwatson: ok i found how to do the getBugTasks, but i don't see what you mean about .bug is that a method of some part of launchpadlib because i don't see it... do you mean iterate over the list and pass them to launchpad.bugs ?
[21:13]  * calc is trying to make sure he doesn't end up doing something that gets him banned ;-)
[21:15] <cjwatson> calc: well, for example:
[21:15] <cjwatson> >>> man_db = launchpad.distributions['ubuntu'].getSourcePackage(name='man-db')
[21:15] <cjwatson> >>> man_db.getBugTasks()[0]
[21:15] <cjwatson> <bug_task at https://api.edge.launchpad.net/beta/ubuntu/+source/man-db/+bug/337302>
[21:15] <cjwatson> >>> man_db.getBugTasks()[0].bug
[21:15] <cjwatson> <bug at https://api.edge.launchpad.net/beta/bugs/337302>
[21:15] <calc> ah ok thanks :)
[21:16] <calc> that cleared it up for me :)
[21:16] <cjwatson> a package only has tasks attached to it, but in order to query whether there's an upstream task on a bug, you'll want to go from the package tasks to the main bug object
[21:16] <calc> i forgot and tried dir on the whole object not on an item in it
[21:17] <cjwatson> obviously be careful to iterate over the task collection in an LP-friendly way - I think the help.lp.net documentation makes some mention of iterating over large collections
[21:17] <calc> cjwatson: ok
[21:17] <cjwatson> once you have a bug object, there's a bug_tasks collection on that
[21:22] <calc> is there a way to determine how many entries are in bug_tasks, or do you just have iterate across them?
[21:23] <calc> len fails but that might be the wrong method
[21:25] <TheMuso> cjwatson: over the weekend I noticed some weird errors with some ports arches and CDs not building. Tracking it down as far as I could, libcap1 is not ending up in the ship seed for ports arches.
[21:25] <TheMuso> cjwatson: This was after running parts of cdimage locally to get germinate to do its thing to go through dependencies etc.
[21:26] <TheMuso> However this is not for all parches, I think sparc still is getting built
[21:26] <TheMuso> oh and hppa is building also. :p
[21:31]  * cjwatson looks
[21:32] <cjwatson> actually I think that's due to incorrect priorities
[21:32] <cjwatson> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/priority-mismatches.txt
[21:33] <TheMuso> I saw that, but couldn't work out from that why the supported arches build, but some ports arches don't.
[21:33] <cjwatson> debootstrap thinks it needs libcap1 because it has Priority: important in the archive; cdimage's germinate run says that it doesn't need it so it doesn't put it in
[21:33] <TheMuso> ah ok
[21:33] <cjwatson> my guess would be that on some architectures libcap1 is still depended upon
[21:33] <TheMuso> Right.
[21:34] <cjwatson> ah yes, of course - libcap1 is only pulled into ship by dhcp3-server by ltsp-server-standalone
[21:35] <cjwatson> and the seed entry is:
[21:35] <cjwatson>  * ltsp-server-standalone [amd64 hppa i386 ia64 sparc] # for LTSP-on-install
[21:35] <cjwatson> anyway, it's a clear archive overrides bug which I'll fix now, thanks
[21:35] <TheMuso> np
[21:53] <calc> cjwatson: do any upstream bug tasks always show up as bug_watches, even if they aren't linked?
[21:54] <calc> cjwatson: i pulled using bug.bug_watches for 100 bugs and didn't it claimed none of them had status Invalid
[21:55] <calc> oh crap remote status it the real remote status not what is show in the webpage
[21:57] <calc> looks like bug_watches are just properly linked bugs
[21:59] <calc> ugh
[21:59] <calc> looks like there is no generic way to see what it considers to be upstream for purposes of revealing what hide_upstream hides from me
[22:02] <calc> hmm actually looking closer i think i might be wrong
[22:03]  * calc does a larger search for invalid upstream bugs
[22:24] <yghannam7388> hello everyone, has anyone worked on a way to restore the Grub bootloader from the install CD? I think I might have a solution.
[22:26] <RainCT> yghannam7388: not sure, but the alternate CD might have an option for this
[22:30] <yghannam7388> RainCT: there was an idea on Ubuntu Brainstorm for developing a menu entry on the Ubuntu LiveCD to restore Grub. This would make it much simpler for most people. I'll check out the alternate CD and see if that is what is available
[22:43] <thiebaude> dtchen: what is the kernal link again?
[22:43] <thiebaude> o i got it
[22:44] <dtchen> thiebaude: right, other channel, but for reference, also http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/
[22:46] <ii> Hi.  Been using Ubuntu since 5.10 and there's been a common problem of BADSIGs when running apt-get update until 8.10 ... forums always have a number of posts about this error.  I recently found a webpage with a solution that works first time and I was wondering if one of the developers can comment on whether it is a true solution or not.
[22:46] <thiebaude> thanks
[22:47] <ii> Wrong forum?
[22:48] <ii> Hello?
[22:51] <ion_> ii: Install ubuntu-keyring. If that doesn’t fix the problem, the mirror is probably just syncing and you just need to run apt-get update later. And now please read the topic. And have some patience.
[22:51] <ii> No, I'm not requesting support.
[22:54] <yghannam7388> I just downloaded the alternate CD to see what it does to reinstall GRUB. You have to go to Rescue a Broken System, from there it loads up a lot of stuff before you can even get to restoring GRUB. What is proposed on Ubuntu Brainstorm is having a menu entry on the LiveCD that restores it very quicky.
[22:55] <ii> ion_: On the following site: [http://parijatmishra.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/ubuntu-bad-signature-problems-prevent-apt-get-update-from-working/], it was suggested to delete the incorrectly signed Release and Release.gpg files (i.e. sudo rm -f /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/*Release*) - then run sudo apt-get update -o Acquire::http::No-Cache=true ... this has worked first time, every time for me.  All other solutions don't necessarily work first time.
[22:58] <yghannam7388> So far I've been able to add Grub4Dos to the LiveCD and use it to restore Grub without having to load any thing else
[22:58] <ion_> The real solution would probably be making the mirrors do syncs atomically and making apt-get redownload the lists along with their signatures up to a couple of times when signature checking fails.
[22:59] <jldugger> bizaare
[22:59] <jldugger> from the new svn release: "We now require SQLite to build both the server and client."
[23:02] <yghannam7388> would anyone be interested in mentoring the "restore bootloader" for Google Summer of Code?
[23:13] <ii_> ion_: Apologies if this is a duplicate but I just lost my internet connection for a few moments.  This mirror sync thing - is it being worked on?
[23:14] <jldugger> yghannam7388: who'd be your organization sponsor?
[23:16] <yghannam7388> jldugger: i haven't found anyone to sponsor the idea yet. the mailing list seems kind of dead so i decided to be more active in looking. i'm sorry if this isn't the right place to discuss this.
[23:20] <jldugger> yghannam7388: last i observed, Ubuntu is not in the SoC as a mentoring project
[23:21] <thiebaude> jldugger: ubuntu was approved for google SoC, but they dont want to participate this year
[23:21] <yghannam7388> thiebaude: is there a reason why they don't want to participate?
[23:22] <jldugger> "they"
[23:22] <thiebaude> yghannam7388: i just remember seeing that somewhere on a canonical website, but i didn't see why they don't
[23:25] <jldugger> yghannam7388: i think its safe to assume that if there's nobody willing to handle ubuntu's application as a mentoring org, there won't be many mentors around either
[23:25] <jldugger> If there's specific technology you're interested in related to ubuntu and SoC, the Debian project may be a place to send your application
[23:36] <Pollywog> I can't seem to get kmail to compile from deb-src with debugging symbols, even though in the debian/rules file I added DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-debug=yes
[23:37] <Pollywog> the format of the rules file has apparently changed in the past few months
[23:37] <cjwatson> Pollywog: well, is that an option that kmail's configure script accepts?
[23:37] <cjwatson> Pollywog: I think your error is in assuming that this sort of thing can be the same across all packages
[23:37] <Pollywog> the normal (not Debian) configure accepts it
[23:37] <yghannam7388> jldugger: i'm sorry if i seem stubborn about this, but Ubuntu applied and filled out an organization profile. There is also a couple of pages on the wiki about GSoC this year, and a number of people have posted ideas that they'd like to mentor for. is there any way to be sure that Ubuntu will not participate this year?
[23:38] <cjwatson> the "format of the rules file" has not changed since sometime in the mid-90s
[23:38] <Pollywog> kmail is in the kdepim package
[23:38] <jldugger> yghannam7388: well, you could email the SoC and carbon copy the ubuntu community council ;)
[23:39] <cjwatson> DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS is not part of the "format of the rules file" - it's an environment variable implemented by one particular reasonably popular set of helper build scripts
[23:39] <Pollywog> well I formerly did this without any problems but since the kmail source was included in the larger package, I have been unable to do it
[23:39] <Pollywog> ic
[23:39] <Pollywog> I am trying to find some documentation but have been unsuccessful
[23:40] <cjwatson> this stuff is in general not documented; the maintainer is expected to figure out how to enable things
[23:40] <Pollywog> cjwatson: that explains it
[23:40] <Pollywog> I will have to go to the ddebs then
[23:40] <cjwatson> it's not something users are expected to change
[23:40] <Pollywog> k
[23:41] <cjwatson> kde4 uses cmake, not autoconf as far as I can tell, and thus I wouldn't expect DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS to be used
[23:41] <Pollywog> cjwatson: yes but this is kde3
[23:42] <Pollywog> I do not understand cmake so I am staying away from that for now
[23:42] <Pollywog> I understand that things have changed with KDE4
[23:43] <cjwatson> /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk is the make fragment that uses DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
[23:45] <cjwatson> AFAICT the upstream configure script shipped with kdepim 4:3.5.9-0ubuntu3 in hardy does provide an --enable-debug=yes option, but you'll have to trace through it to figure out what it's supposed to do
[23:45] <yghannam7388> jldugger: i'm sorry, what do you mean by "carbon copy"?
[23:45] <cjwatson> building a package from source typically produces verbose output that includes the configure options being passed (among many other things), and you're expected to read those when trying to track down problems
[23:46] <cjwatson> if you use debuild, it'll be recorded in a .build file in the parent directory
[23:46] <Pollywog> cjwatson: ty I think it would be easier for me to use the ddebs
[23:46] <Pollywog> I have not used ddebs before but I found something to help me with it
[23:46] <cjwatson> if all you need is debugging symbols and not a separate debugging build pass, then yes, that's what ddebs are for so you might as well if they're available
[23:46] <Pollywog> thanks
[23:47] <Pollywog> I am beginning to think developers are born, not made
[23:48] <calc> cjwatson: btw thanks for the help earlier, i got my script working to show me the hidden bugs :)
[23:48] <cjwatson> good stuff
[23:49] <cjwatson> Pollywog: there's a component of talent/intuition/whatever and a component of learning/experience/whatever; it takes both
[23:49] <cjwatson> like most skilled occupations
[23:49] <Pollywog> so it would seem
[23:51] <cjwatson> if you're looking into development-type things because you think it's fun, then you should probably persist even if you run into some roadblocks. OTOH if you're just doing it to solve an immediate need, then it's usually best to solve that need in whatever way is most expedient and move on to something you find more interesting ...
[23:52] <Pollywog> cjwatson: yes I have the same problem in almost everything I try to do
[23:52] <Pollywog> I understand that sometimes people do not have time to write documentation for beginners
[23:53] <cjwatson> documentation is generally going to be focused on things we actually expect users to use
[23:53] <cjwatson> (although of course documentation is lacking in many of those areas too :-/)
[23:53] <Pollywog> I am one of those users who eventually wants to figure out how to do things most users don't want to do
[23:54] <Pollywog> Sometimes this gets me into trouble  :)
[23:54] <yghannam7388> jldugger: i'm sorry, nevermind that last message
[23:54] <yghannam7388> jldugger: thank you for you help
[23:55] <cjwatson> Pollywog: while cdbs is not very well-documented, the format of Debian packages is extensively documented; wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment links to the policy manual etc. which describes this
[23:55] <Pollywog> I have been looking at the wiki
[23:59] <YokoZar> Hmm, I have two movie files of the same resolution and length, both encoded with h264 and ac3 audio, and both of about the same file size.  Both worked on Intrepid, but now one of them plays back really slowly.  This is a regression, but I'm not even sure where to start and file a bug