[00:00] <lifi_> ok, thx guys
[00:00] <DaemonFC> *Radeon even
[00:00] <crdlb> hmw: R500 and up are 4096, I believe
[00:00] <crdlb> DaemonFC: you meant 'radeon still can't'?
[00:04] <crdlb> hmw: though I guess fglrx might not expose that
[00:04] <hmw> i can't remember if they were talking about hardware or driver restrictions...
[00:05] <hmw> my card wouldnt work properly with more than a total x res of 2048+ (radeon 9600)
[00:05] <DaemonFC> no, X has had compositing support for my Radeon since last year
[00:05] <DaemonFC> Fedora 9 was the first system it worked on out of the box
[00:06] <crdlb> hmw: that's a hardware limit
[00:06] <DaemonFC> or worked on at all for that matter
[00:06] <crdlb> hmw: well, I've heard it might be slightly higher than 2048 (maybe 1280x2)
[00:06] <DaemonFC> and I'm getting ready to recompile my kernel again
[00:06] <crdlb> but it's definitely not 4096 like contemporary nvidia gpus were
[00:06] <DaemonFC> someone at Ubuntu thought it would be nice to force ipv6 on you by making it part of the kernel
[00:07] <DaemonFC> and I need to turn it off or my cable modem goes nuts
[00:07] <crdlb> how terrible
[00:07] <DaemonFC> there's nothing gained by making it part of the kernel other than not allowing users to turn it off
[00:07] <DaemonFC> even if it breaks things for them
[00:08] <hmw> you sure, that it can't be turned off?
[00:08] <DaemonFC> yup
[00:08] <DaemonFC> you can't blacklist it cause it's not a module
[00:08] <DaemonFC> B-)
[00:08] <hmw> Put this line: KDE_NO_IPV6=true
[00:08] <hmw> at the end of /etc/environment
[00:08] <hmw> (just googled)
[00:08] <DaemonFC> KDE?
[00:08] <DaemonFC> :/
[00:09] <hmw> i am not fully certain, that it cant be turned off... let me goole a little more
[00:09] <hmw> has it been put into the kernel recently, or is that so for longer already?
[00:09] <DaemonFC> I'm redoing my kernel source
[00:10] <DaemonFC> I usually make clean after I'm done
[00:10] <DaemonFC> bad habit
[00:10] <DaemonFC> XFS does handle being assaulted by a kernel tarball quite well
[00:11] <DaemonFC> that brings Ext3 to its knees
[00:11] <DaemonFC> B-)
[00:11] <hmw> what does "alias net-pf-10 off" in /etc/modprobe.d/aliases? what is such an alias?
[00:11] <DaemonFC> thats if it's a module
[00:12] <hmw> this answers a different question
[00:13] <hmw> i wonder, why there is no thing like echo "0" > /proc/something for turning it off
[00:14] <hmw> nah... all i find is about disabling the module, all from 2007
[00:14] <hmw> oh... another blogger (2009) talks about blacklisting!
[00:17] <hmw> weird... if there was a module for ipv6, it would show up in lsmod, right? what ubuntu are those people talking about?
[00:17] <crdlb> 8.10
[00:17] <hmw> 8.10 had it as a module?
[00:17] <crdlb> yes, that's what he's complaining about
[00:17] <hmw> oh... sorry...
[00:18] <hmw> providing no method to turn it off is not so good
[00:18] <DaemonFC`> it threw me offline again
[00:18] <DaemonFC`> easier to just fix it myself than ask them
[00:20] <DaemonFC`> I think I'll just compile it with no ipv6
[00:20] <hmw> i wonder, when the first systems come out without ipv4
[00:20] <mhjacks> Anyone have any idea why VNC would have trouble starting an X session from rc.local?
[00:20] <mhjacks> (Needless to say,it worked in Jaunty)
[00:21] <mhjacks> (um, I mean Intrepid.  Sorry.)
[00:22] <crdlb> hmw: if consumer ISPs keep putting their customers behing NAT, never
[00:25] <DaemonFC`> lmao
[00:26] <DaemonFC`> if you build staging drivers, your kernel is flagged taint_crap
[00:26] <DaemonFC`> in kerneloops reports
[00:26] <hmw> lol
[00:31] <DaemonFC`> hmmm
[00:32] <DaemonFC`> it supports a lot of radio tuner card
[00:32] <DaemonFC`> I wonder how much those are
[00:43] <mhjacks> Does anyone in here do anything with starting VNC from boot scripts? (like rc.local?)
[00:49] <DaemonFC> and again
[00:50] <DaemonFC> I hope this build soon
[00:50] <DaemonFC> I have to flip my modem off and on about every 10 minutes
[00:57] <DaemonFC> noooooooo!
[00:57] <DaemonFC> he was such a nice ghost too!
[00:57] <DaemonFC> so young and beautiful
[00:59] <Roey> hi all
[00:59] <Roey> dtchen:  hi!
[01:02] <hmw> hi
[01:05] <hmw> what would generally be needed to improve network manager's ability to deal with wifi and wireless broadband?
[01:05] <DasEi> did anyone tried to convert to ext4 on a crypted fs ? any trouble ?
[01:05] <alemao> hello. i've tried to setup firefox32 in my amd64 9.04 as says this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AMD64/FirefoxAndPlugins?action=show&redirect=FirefoxAMD64FlashJava. Firefox32 opens fine, complain about two libs from gvfs but it doesn't open any page (like a problem with dns). have anyone tried this with 9.04?
[01:06] <bruce89>  alemao: there is no need to use 32 bit Firefox any more
[01:06] <alemao> bruce89: i need to use the logmein plugin and it doesn't seem to work with amd64 :/
[01:07] <bruce89> plugin?
[01:07] <alemao> the flash64 works fine :)
[01:07] <alemao> bruce89: yeah, from their website
[01:07] <alemao> bruce89: https://secure.logmein.com/connect_mozilla.asp?dothis=install
[01:07] <bruce89> ah
[01:08] <hmw> are there any technical reasons not to install flashplugin-nonfree?
[01:08] <sebsebseb> hmw: sure  it's closed source
[01:08] <hmw> technical *g*
[01:08] <bruce89> alemao: I'd look at ssh if possible
[01:08] <sebsebseb> hmw: that is a technical reason, since only Adobe can change the code
[01:09] <sebsebseb> hmw: it restricts our freedoms
[01:09] <DaemonFC> hmmmm
[01:09] <sebsebseb> !freedom
[01:09] <alemao> bruce89: yeah, i prefer it too :/ but i need to access a machine inside the network, and the router is f* modem that i don't have access :/
[01:09] <DaemonFC> they also build all file systems into the kernel
[01:09] <DaemonFC> which is incorrect
[01:09] <DaemonFC> *sigh*
[01:09] <alemao> bruce89: i'll try the java version, installing right now
[01:09] <bruce89> alemao: I thought as much
[01:09] <hmw> DaemonFC: they do it for improving performance, right?
[01:09] <DaemonFC> nope
[01:09] <DaemonFC> you get the same performance either way
[01:10] <hmw> aha... so what reason would there be, then?
[01:10] <DaemonFC> jsut means that I have to have the drivers for 5-6 file systems in the kernel image
[01:10] <alemao> openjdk-jre is running fine as sun-jre?
[01:10] <DaemonFC> using RAM
[01:10] <DaemonFC> if you're unsure what the user will choose, you make them modules
[01:10] <DaemonFC> B-)
[01:10] <bruce89> alemao: AFAIK, there's little difference these days
[01:11] <DaemonFC> I have no Ext2/3/4 partitions, so I don't even need them as modules, much less in the kernel
[01:11] <sebsebseb> what happended to Ext1????
[01:11] <bruce89> sebsebseb: it lasted a very short time
[01:12] <bruce89> sebsebseb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_file_system
[01:12] <sebsebseb> ok
[01:12] <sebsebseb> apparantly ReiserFS is better than Ext3  and so  Ext4 as well I guess then.  not used Reister and  I would rather not use MurderFS, for that very reason
[01:13] <|ns|nR8> lol sebsebseb
[01:13] <sebsebseb> that joke is getting a bit old now though, but still can be funny
[01:13] <bruce89> ext4 is better than ext3 (not that it could be worse)
[01:13] <|ns|nR8> first time ive heard it
[01:13] <sebsebseb> I guess
[01:13] <bruce89> it also borrows a lot of reiser stuff
[01:13] <sebsebseb> you  didn't read any of the articles about him murdering his wife
[01:13] <sebsebseb> I mean the comments of
[01:14] <|ns|nR8> noop
[01:14]  * bruce89 heard of it
[01:14] <|ns|nR8> must of been out of it
[01:14] <|ns|nR8> i heard of it..just never seen the koes
[01:14] <|ns|nR8> aka murderfs etc
[01:14] <|ns|nR8> jokes
[01:15] <|ns|nR8> anyway to get 8.10 to read ext4 ?
[01:15] <sebsebseb> why is Ext the default for most distros anyway?
[01:15] <bruce89> |ns|nR8: mount as ext4dev I think
[01:15] <bruce89> sebsebseb: because it works
[01:15] <|ns|nR8> oh
[01:15] <sebsebseb> maybe, and I think you can  make Ext3 be like Ext4
[01:16] <sebsebseb> Ext4 is good now or not?
[01:16] <sebsebseb> there was that data loss bug
[01:16] <bruce89> sebsebseb: I'm using it
[01:16] <alemao> bruce89: it's working with java
[01:16] <alemao> gonna use it :)
[01:16] <bruce89> you can mount ext3 as ext4
[01:16] <sebsebseb> i'll wait untill 9.04 finall before  I get rid of this, which is Ext3, and do Ext4
[01:16] <alemao> thanks, see yah
[01:16] <bruce89> alemao: good, the fun of non-free
[01:16] <sebsebseb> mount ext3 as 4????
[01:16] <bruce89> of course
[01:16] <alemao> sebsebseb: ext4 stills sucks
[01:16] <sebsebseb> so no need to make my  home ext4?
[01:17] <|ns|nR8> im hanging out for the beta in 3 days
[01:17] <alemao> i was using it with 2.6.29-rc8-xxxx
[01:17] <|ns|nR8> these buggy alphas have been annoying as hell
[01:17] <bruce89> sebsebseb: it doesn't do any of the intresting stuff
[01:17] <sebsebseb> beta is Thursday
[01:17] <sebsebseb> so not 3 days
[01:17] <alemao> and still got some 0bytes files
[01:17] <alemao> stays with ext3 ;)
[01:17] <|ns|nR8> 4 days?
[01:17] <|ns|nR8> 26th
[01:17] <alemao> and wait for 2.6.30
[01:17] <alemao> cya
[01:17] <|ns|nR8> its the 23rd here'
[01:17] <sebsebseb> well I wil  get rid of this, and put Ext4  partitions on if  Ext4 is good enough
[01:17] <zorkerz> anyone else not have any borders when special effects are enabled?
[01:17] <sebsebseb> when   9.04 final is out
[01:17] <bruce89> sebsebseb: you can upgrade
[01:17] <sebsebseb> Ext3 cann't be upgraded to Ext4 with full functionality
[01:18] <bruce89> sebsebseb: it's what I did with /home
[01:18] <bruce89> depends what you mean
[01:18] <sebsebseb> Ext3  can get limited Ext4 functionality I read though
[01:18] <|ns|nR8> keep in mind all your older live cd's wont read ext4
[01:18] <bruce89> sebsebseb: new files are created using extents, but old ones remain the same
[01:19] <sebsebseb> I read something about that, but didn't understand
[01:19] <sebsebseb> and  most of my data will be the old files
[01:19] <bruce89> it's not just extents that are nice though
[01:19] <sebsebseb> what are extents?
[01:19] <bruce89> I don't know, but they're nice for some reason
[01:20] <sebsebseb> well I either buy a  external or move data into Vista or something
[01:20] <sebsebseb> then do Ext4's
[01:20] <sebsebseb> and move data back
[01:20] <sebsebseb> well to even  since new partitiosn
[01:20] <bruce89> you'll lose metadata that way
[01:20] <sebsebseb> or do something with a seperate data partition, that I also get rid of to be replaced with Ext4
[01:21] <bruce89> unless you tar it
[01:21] <sebsebseb> metadata???? such as?
[01:21] <bruce89> permissions, owner, times
[01:21] <sebsebseb> I did what I just said last time I re did my computer
[01:21] <sebsebseb> and I think the meta data was ok
[01:22]  * bruce89 is paranoid about losing anything
[01:22] <sebsebseb> ,but  those files would appear differnetlly in Vista.  in  the list
[01:22] <sebsebseb> more black
[01:22] <sebsebseb> yeah  I am not  happy about using my hard disk as the major storage device, altough most data here is  not that important
[01:22] <bruce89> files don't have colours
[01:22] <sebsebseb> so yeah should get that external sorted out
[01:22] <sebsebseb> and they are pretty cheap now
[01:23]  * bruce89 sends my 500GB external drive through the tubes
[01:23] <sebsebseb> there was something,  about Vista, and how it would  treat those Linux files differnet that I moved onto the partiotn
[01:23] <sebsebseb> yeah  500GB I am thinking buy two
[01:24] <sebsebseb> then  I can  have stuff on both, that I realy don't want to download again
[01:24] <bruce89> yikes, that be a lot of stuff
[01:24] <bruce89> well, 1 TB
[01:24] <sebsebseb> I don't have 500GB worth of data
[01:24] <sebsebseb> and 1TB is a lot yes
[01:24] <sebsebseb> I don't think I would get anywhere close to filling that up, but then again  I would download more with a external
[01:24] <sebsebseb> plus  all the vm's and everything that I want to do
[01:25] <sebsebseb> 1TB can  be bought for about £72 now
[01:25] <bruce89> I find that Windows partitions fill their drive, were as Linux ones go nowhere near 50%
[01:25] <sebsebseb> indeed
[01:25] <sebsebseb> Linux programs also hardly take up any space
[01:25] <sebsebseb> where as Windows :D
[01:25] <bruce89> '/ - 36% /home - 16%
[01:26] <bruce89> that's even with a fair bit of GNOME's source code in /home
[01:26] <sebsebseb> I got I  stuff on here that I will go through and delete
[01:26] <sebsebseb> don't wan to keep that forever
[01:26]  * bruce89 uses baobab
[01:26] <bruce89> anyway
[01:26] <bruce89> !ot
[01:26] <sebsebseb> what's baobab?
[01:27] <sebsebseb> yes we are offtopic, but no one else chatting here right now, and so, so what?
[01:27] <sebsebseb> Disk usage analyser
[01:27] <sebsebseb> you didn't have to pm that
[01:28] <sebsebseb> and I like kdiskfree
[01:28] <sebsebseb> bruce89: then of course there will be a command to find out that stuff, but what hum
[01:28]  * bruce89 is trying to get my IRC police badge, ignore me
[01:28] <bruce89> du
[01:28] <sebsebseb> bruce89: lol
[01:29] <mhjacks> pydf is nice
[01:29] <sebsebseb> mhjacks: pydf?????
[01:29] <mhjacks> pydf is good for seeing free space on mounted filesystems
[01:30] <sebsebseb> mhjacks: that's a command or?
[01:30] <mhjacks> It's df in python, with color coding
[01:30] <mhjacks> Yeah, apt-get install pydf
[01:30] <bruce89> !info pydf
[01:30] <sebsebseb> yeah I am sure I can spare 12kb for it :D
[01:30]  * bruce89 really doesn't like programs having names which indicate the language it is written in
[01:31] <mhjacks> I tend to agree, but pydf is a bit shorter than "colordf" or somesuch
[01:31] <mhjacks> I need to reboot to test a theory on VNC...I may be back. :)
[01:34] <sebsebseb> [########............]
[01:34] <sebsebseb> I got stuff like that showing in pydf as well
[01:34] <sebsebseb> what does that mean?
[01:35] <sebsebseb> bruce89
[01:35] <bruce89> I don't know
[01:37] <DaemonFC> Compiling kernels on my PS3 is actually fairly quick
[01:38] <DaemonFC> there's a lot of PS3 goodies going into 2.6.29 B-)
[01:38] <zorkerz> anyone else unable to use compiz?
[01:38] <hmw> copmiz runs just fine here... what's your hardware configuration?
[01:41] <zorkerz> its a thinkpad x61
[01:42] <zorkerz> intel x3100 graphics card
[01:42] <zorkerz> if i enable normal or extra special effects I loose all the borders on windows
[01:43] <zorkerz> then i can resize windows or move them any new windows default to the upper left
[01:43] <zorkerz> can't* resize or move
[01:44] <DaemonFC> I took the excuse of fixing Ubuntu's ipv6 getting stuffed down my throat to go ahead and try git6 too
[01:44] <DaemonFC> :P
[01:46] <hmw> zorkerz: can you see any 3d or other transformation effects? I suspect your compiz has crashed, which would explain, why there is no decoration
[01:48] <zorkerz> hmw: not entirely sure what you mean i cannot alt + tab or go to another desktop
[01:48] <DaemonFC> compiz --replace
[01:48] <DaemonFC> ftw
[01:49] <hmw> i had that once, too... was due to a bad driver, so compiz wouldnt run really
[01:49] <zorkerz> ya it started with an update to compiz a week or so ago
[01:55] <crashsystems> bug #347053
[01:57] <bruce89> this is starting to be not funny
[02:26] <DaemonFC> Eric Sandeen is still finding and fixing tons of Ext4 bugs
[02:26] <DaemonFC> I feel sorry for anyone that actually tries to use it in Jaunty
[02:27] <DaemonFC> but it's possible in Jaunty to have an "Everything on /" setup on XFS now, so I'm happy for that
[02:29] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: so Jaunty still has loads of bugs in Ext4?  yep I stuck with Ext3 for this juanty trying
[02:29] <DasEi> DaemonFC: lol, so let's see what happens to me
[02:29] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: ,but if Ext4 is stable enough etc,  I  would re do my computer with it.  once Jaunty final is out some time
[02:30] <DaemonFC> maybe nothing, maybe you lose your whole filesystem if the power goes out or an app crashes while committing to disk
[02:30] <DaemonFC> who knows?
[02:30] <DaemonFC> exciting isn't it?
[02:30] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: yeah I heard stuff like that.  and I like to just  turn my computer off with the button on  Ubuntu :d.  and I don't get data loss with Ext3
[02:30] <DasEi> fs checks without testing unallocated is nice in ext4, and also set barriers
[02:30] <DaemonFC> sebsebseb: XFS is still better anyway
[02:30] <DaemonFC> most of the time
[02:30] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: ,but your saying if I did that with Ext4, that I may get data loss?
[02:30] <DaemonFC> and you really should format to go to Ext4 anyway
[02:31] <bruce89> just as well I bought a new battery
[02:31] <DaemonFC> sebsebseb: Unless you plan on compiling a 2.6.29 kernel
[02:31] <DaemonFC> stick with Ext3 or use XFS
[02:32] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: I don't know about XFS
[02:32] <bruce89> oh well, I'll just have to risk it now
[02:32] <DaemonFC> XFS is quite stable
[02:32] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: loads of people have said that Ext4 is so much faster, but would I get such advantages?  32bit with 1GB RAM
[02:32] <DaemonFC> and the primary maintainer of XFS also wrote a lot of Ext4
[02:32] <DaemonFC> so I think he is a fairly smart fellow
[02:33] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: what about Reister any good?
[02:33] <sebsebseb> Reiser
[02:33] <DaemonFC> sebsebseb: Ext4 is faster, but if you don't format and start fresh, most of your files will still be in the old Ext3 blocks format
[02:33] <DaemonFC> XFS still has better performance and lower CPU usage
[02:33] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: yeah exactly, if I am to use Ext4,  I am starting over
[02:33] <crashsystems> bah, I'm using ext4 in Jaunty with no problems and no data loss
[02:33] <DaemonFC> If you start over, I'd recommend XFS
[02:34] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: well  Ubuntu's  unoffical version of Firefox, can do major crashing on my computer
[02:34] <sebsebseb> DaemonFC: and in 8.10 and I guess on this to, it could use a lot of CPU usage
[02:34] <DaemonFC> Ext4 is a major improvement over Ext3 but hasn't done anything I haven't already had for years
[02:34] <sebsebseb> with XFS you mean?
[02:35] <DaemonFC> yeah
[02:35] <DaemonFC> XFS also has a file reorganizer, so if you want to defragment a volume, go for it
[02:35] <DaemonFC> but it fragments less than Ext3/4
[02:35] <DaemonFC> I set it as a cron job and forget about running it by hand
[02:35] <crashsystems> I really like XFS, and am liking ext4, but as far as which is better, I've seen benchmarks to support both opinions.
[02:36] <DaemonFC> the Phoronix benchmark is invalid
[02:36] <crashsystems> can you give me a link to a better one then? also, why is it invalid?
[02:36] <sebsebseb> DeamonFC: 2.6.29  won't be the default kernel in Jaunty?  you made it sound like it was needed for Ext4?
[02:36] <bruce89> sebsebseb: nope, old 2.6.28
[02:37] <DaemonFC> http://phoronix-test-suite.com/pipermail/trondheim-pts_phoronix-test-suite.com/2008-December/000077.html
[02:37] <DaemonFC> Eric Sandeen's reply to Phoronix
[02:37] <DaemonFC> because they interpreted the results wrong
[02:37] <DaemonFC> and claimed that Ext3 did things it's not even capable of doing B-)
[02:38] <dtchen> sebsebseb: all the important patches are backported for ext4, so the base kernel version really isn't terribly relevant
[02:38]  * sebsebseb is waiting for articles about Ext4 in Jaunty final, before he makes his mind up, if he  goes to it or not
[02:38] <DaemonFC> sebsebseb: Ext4 went "stable" in 2.6.28
[02:38]  * bruce89 is waiting for articles moaning about notify-osd, but it doesn't seem likely
[02:38] <sebsebseb> dtchen: you mean to Ext3?   I did hear that can get some limited Ext4 functionality in  Ext3,  but I don't really understand this file system stuff anyway
[02:38] <DaemonFC> but you could use it as Ext4Dev before that
[02:38] <DaemonFC> way before that
[02:39] <crashsystems> I'll be happy once btrfs comes out, and once I know how to pronounce btrfs.
[02:39] <DaemonFC> sebsebseb: If you mount Ext3 as Ext4 without Extents, you can revert to Ext3 later
[02:39] <bruce89> sebsebseb: not really
[02:39] <DaemonFC> but Extents are the coolest thing about Ext4
[02:39] <sebsebseb> what is Extents?
[02:39] <DaemonFC> but XFS was designed around them to start with B-)
[02:40] <DaemonFC> an Extent is a group of blocks that can be allocated at once
[02:40] <DaemonFC> Ext3 works by allocating blocks individually
[02:40] <sebsebseb> allocated to what?
[02:40] <DaemonFC> which means poorer performance and more fragmentation
[02:40] <DaemonFC> files
[02:41] <sebsebseb> heh yeah and there's a remour that  Linux file systems don't need to be defragmented like Windows
[02:41] <DaemonFC> If you start fresh with XFS or Ext4, it will be near impossible to get any meaningful fragmentation
[02:41] <bruce89> sebsebseb: not a rumour
[02:41] <DaemonFC> plus file creation and deletion are faster
[02:41] <bruce89> especially deletion I notice
[02:41] <DaemonFC> well, there is an e4defrag for Ext4
[02:41] <sebsebseb> well Ext3 is what I been using for  Linux  since 2004.   or  did  FC2 use  Ext2?
[02:41] <sebsebseb> Ext3 seems to be ok
[02:42] <DaemonFC> but it's not in the e2fstools group yet
[02:42] <DaemonFC> err e2fsprogs rather
[02:42] <sebsebseb> I mean at the end of the day  they are just file systems, what's the big deal?   as long as programs work and data?
[02:42] <dtchen> sebsebseb: no, i mean that jaunty's kernel has all the important and recommended ext4 patches backported
[02:42] <DaemonFC> xfs_fsr is in the xfsdump package
[02:42] <dtchen> sebsebseb: just see the changelog in /usr/share/doc/linux-image-$(uname -r)/changelog.Debian.gz
[02:42] <DaemonFC> xfs_fsr can optimize a volume while it's mounted B-)
[02:43] <crashsystems> Like like to see someone hack a kernel to get a system running on NTFS, just for laughs.
[02:43] <DaemonFC> NTFS doesn't have POSIX ACLs and XATTR
[02:43] <sebsebseb> crashsystems:  Linux can run on NTFS
[02:43] <DaemonFC> and a few other things
[02:43] <DaemonFC> so Linux couldn't reside on NTFS,
[02:44] <sebsebseb> crashsystems: well CoLinux and  something else now for the Windows to have a Linux desktop hummmmm  that article I never even read it properly eyt
[02:44] <crashsystems> perhaps one could set up /boot to be on it's own ext3 partition, and / to be on NTFS
[02:44] <DaemonFC> Wubi is just an Ext3 file system in a file that resides on NTFS
[02:44] <DaemonFC> it tricks Linux into working, basically
[02:44] <DaemonFC> CoLinux is just user mode Linux
[02:44] <DaemonFC> Linux is running as a program
[02:45] <sebsebseb> DeamonFC:  there's something else now as well,  let's find it
[02:45] <DaemonFC> anyway, brb, time to reboot and use my newer than new kernel
[02:46] <sebsebseb> dtchen: Banshee was working grat with my music for a long time
[02:46] <sebsebseb> dtchen: ,but as of a little while ago, I lost all sound,  and yes your kernel
[02:46] <dtchen> sebsebseb: need more detail
[02:47] <sebsebseb> dtchen: such as? and how to get it?   seems  a re boot will probably make things work again for a while at least.   I hpe the beta is nothing like this alpha.
[02:47] <hmw> my pidgin creates an icon in the notification area, that looks like a letter envelope. It is not the normal pidgin icon, which I can dis/enable additionally. Any ideas, how to get rid of it?
[02:47] <bruce89> hmw: it's been changed
[02:47] <dtchen> sebsebseb: the beta won't have my kernel changes
[02:48] <bruce89> or more accurately, it's inidcator-applet
[02:48] <hmw> bruce89: what do you try to say by that?
[02:48] <bruce89> hmw: apparently notification icons are evil, so Ubuntu is trying to merge them
[02:48] <dtchen> sebsebseb: you should try killall pulseaudio;pulseaudio -vv
[02:48] <dtchen> sebsebseb: that will run the daemon in the foreground, and then you can send me the log when it dies
[02:49] <bruce89> hmw: so Pidgin's been patched to put itself in an applet instead of notification icon
[02:49] <hmw> but merging is the opposite, of what is happening here... or is it evolution, that shows this icon?
[02:49] <bruce89> hmw: both of them for now
[02:49] <hmw> alright, thx
[02:49] <bruce89> of course, Ubuntu seem to have forgotten that Empathy is the GNOME IM client, but just as well
[02:50] <dtchen> sebsebseb: in the meantime, you can look at the end of /var/log/syslog for pa-related messages
[02:50] <hmw> how good/cool is empathy compared to pidgin?
[02:50] <bruce89> hmw: much less interesting, but that's because it is in GNOME
[02:51] <crashsystems> the only reason I do not use empathy instead of pidgin is because it does not have OTR support
[02:52] <DaemonFC> Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.29-rc8-git6-ryan1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Mar 22 21:44:07 EDT 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[02:52] <DaemonFC> B-)
[02:53] <hmw> oh... that was some other thing, not the notification... it was some "indicator applet"
[02:53] <DaemonFC> I managed to get rid of that
[02:53] <DaemonFC> and get Pidgin to work right
[02:53] <bruce89> I tried to see what GNOME thought of it, but I think a Ubuntu person intercepted my questions
[02:54] <crashsystems> lol
[02:54] <DaemonFC> without installing their "normal GNOME" package
[02:54] <hmw> new record: load 7
[02:54] <DaemonFC> I built my own kernels because the Ubuntu ones are pretty messed up
[02:54] <dtchen> "pretty muessed up"?
[02:54] <DaemonFC> that's why I'm glad they have Debian's build tools
[02:54] <crashsystems> they work great for me
[02:55] <DaemonFC> look through the kernel config menu
[02:55] <DaemonFC> tell me what you like about their defaults
[02:55] <dtchen> DaemonFC: -generic or -server?
[02:55] <DaemonFC> generic
[02:55] <dtchen> and what for your uses doesn't fit?
[02:55] <DaemonFC> there's at least a dozen things I could name if I wanted to start a war
[02:56] <dtchen> i'm not interested in a war. i want to know what you're finding lacking.
[02:56] <DaemonFC> I really don't :P
[02:56] <DaemonFC> generic x86-64 rather than optimizing for processor specific features
[02:56] <DaemonFC> the 32-bit one optimizes for a Pentium Pro
[02:57] <DaemonFC> they build in ipv6 when the correct thing to do is build as a module
[02:57] <DaemonFC> they also do that for file systems you may not even use
[02:58] <DaemonFC> and they leave a metric buttload of debugging crap enabled
[02:58] <DaemonFC> drivers for exotic hardware compiled in instead of compiled as modules
[02:58] <bruce89> DaemonFC: out of interest, how much of this started with Jaunty?
[02:59] <DaemonFC> Well, they used to build probler CPU-specific kernels til Dapper I think
[02:59] <DaemonFC> then they said screw it and just built for the lowest common denominator
[02:59] <DaemonFC> so there's a lot of CPU specific nicities that their kernels do nto have
[02:59] <bruce89> sounds like everything else though
[03:00] <DaemonFC> GCC gives you a generic x86-64 option that only includes optimizations that both AMD and Intel support
[03:00]  * bruce89 would like a distro which was Debian, but with newer packages than unstable
[03:00] <DaemonFC> that's what Ubuntu uses
[03:01] <dtchen> (just let me know when you've run through the most irritating ones)
[03:02] <DaemonFC> and 2.6.29 has XFS and Intel HD Audio bugfixes/features that Ubuntu won't port back
[03:02] <DaemonFC> some which fix pulseaudio nastyness
[03:02] <bruce89> apart from that, it's fine
[03:02] <DaemonFC> meh, I wouldn't use their stock kernel
[03:03] <DaemonFC> it's almost surreal when you look at their config options

[03:03] <DaemonFC> I think they were smoking something illegal in 47 states
[03:03] <DaemonFC> if you get my drift
[03:03] <DaemonFC> :)
[03:03] <bruce89> I said something similar a few days ago
[03:04] <bruce89> but referring to notify-osd and indiciator-applet
[03:04] <dtchen> right, so that reads like the most common laundry list of complaints we discussed at last UDS
[03:04] <DaemonFC> notify-osd is actually an improvement
[03:04] <DaemonFC> indicator crapplet is just stupid
[03:05] <dtchen> optimising for generic is fairly obvious- not everyone has a shiny new computer, so the goal is not to cut off the low end but to support the greatest range with one binary package
[03:05] <DaemonFC> dtchen: If you ask me, you should also stuff the 64-bit kernel into the 32-bit Ubuntu
[03:05] <DaemonFC> if their CPU supports it
[03:05] <dtchen> building in ipv6 is also a non-issue; that's not a kernel issue but a libc6 one, and it has already been addressed in jaunty
[03:06] <DaemonFC> then why is it still giving me problems?
[03:06] <DaemonFC> Why did I have to build a kernel then blacklist the module?
[03:06] <dtchen> file systems, etc., as "seemingly extraneous" are built-in to minimise init and teardown for every single insmod
[03:07] <maco> DaemonFC: the libc6 issue was the one with long timeouts for broken DNS servers... are you having some other problem?
[03:07] <DaemonFC> I reversed that
[03:07] <DaemonFC> I built in XFS
[03:07] <DaemonFC> and modularized Ext2/3/4
[03:07] <dtchen> debugging is in place for catching a variety of suspend- and resume-from- bugs
[03:07] <dtchen> also, as we discussed and verified at last UDS, each insmod takes .5 seconds
[03:07] <DaemonFC> I don't have suspend/resume problems, except for one, and I have to add a PM quirk on any distro
[03:08] <dtchen> Intel HDA fixes are backported
[03:08] <dtchen> and the most important one ("for PulseAudio") is in my tree on kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen
[03:08] <DaemonFC> I just went whole hog
[03:08] <DaemonFC> mine work better for me, and that's a good thing for me B-)
[03:09] <dtchen> it's great that we can all build specific kernels - that's intentional
[03:09] <dtchen> however, building for an OEM base and for the most common hardware is somewhat difficult
[03:09] <DaemonFC> yes, there are dozens of CPU families
[03:09] <DaemonFC> and it would be hard to support all of them
[03:09] <dtchen> (keep in mind that i'm not employed by canonical. i just happen to have worked with the kernel team for many years.)
[03:09] <DaemonFC> that's understandable
[03:10] <dtchen> if you're still experiencing ipv6 dns sluggishness, you should complain to your isp
[03:10] <DaemonFC> I usually report kernel issues to Fedora
[03:10] <DaemonFC> they tend to fix them and get them upstream
[03:10] <DaemonFC> so they're in Ubuntu eventually, and others
[03:10] <maco> they have more people
[03:11] <dtchen> i just fix them upstream :-)
[03:11] <DaemonFC> Comcast does not support ipv6
[03:11] <DaemonFC> probably going to whine and ask the govt for $10 billion to do it
[03:11] <DaemonFC> just like for fiber that never got installed
[03:11] <DaemonFC> B-)
[03:12] <dtchen> that's such a non-issue; you can either take your approach, or you can use miredo or any number of workarounds
[03:12] <dtchen> regardless, it's not a kernel limitation/bug/feature
[03:12] <DaemonFC> it doesn't hurt anything to have a module for ipv6
[03:12] <DaemonFC> and by making it a part of the kernel, you remove the ability to disable it when it does mess things up
[03:13] <DaemonFC> so I would thing module would be preferable
[03:13] <dtchen> that's a pretty weak argument
[03:13] <dtchen> the correct approach would be to fix what's messed up
[03:13] <maco> DaemonFC: every 2 modules = 1 more second for bootup
[03:13] <DaemonFC> what? That by users who need it have it and users that have problems can turn it off?
[03:13] <DaemonFC> sounds like everyone wins
[03:14] <dtchen> DaemonFC: except that approach doesn't actually encourage anyone to fix anything
[03:14] <DaemonFC> so if 10-20% of the users have a craptastic Ubuntu experience, then that means tough cookies
[03:14] <DaemonFC> cause it slows the boot by 0.5 seconds to have it as a module
[03:14] <DaemonFC> nice
[03:14] <dtchen> for 128 modules, yes, that's significant.
[03:15] <DaemonFC> you have IBM s390 stuff polluting a kernel meant for a PC
[03:15] <DaemonFC> and you're worried about 1 module?
[03:16] <dtchen> well heck, you "pollute" your kernel with legacy tty support
[03:16] <dtchen> and how about the cracktastic netfilter support? why not use a hardware firewall appliance?
[03:16] <DaemonFC> I'd like to see Ubuntu do Flicker-Free X
[03:16] <DaemonFC> :)
[03:16] <DaemonFC> if they're going to change anything
[03:16] <dtchen> or shoot, who needs DRM or framebuffer support?
[03:17] <maco> woah, im on IPv4 right now?
[03:17] <hmw> i use framebuffer
[03:17] <dtchen> i'm not saying that your points don't have merit - and believe me, we debate them rigorously at UDS - but some lines have to be drawn for a decent user experience across common hardware
[03:18] <dtchen> i have a plate of issues that i'll be raising and fixing at uds
[03:18] <DaemonFC> dtchen: Bring up Mandriva speedboot
[03:18] <DaemonFC> if you would
[03:18] <dtchen> scott knows about it already
[03:19] <maco> preempt? is preempt one of them?
[03:19] <hmw> dtchen: replicate yourself a 1000 times... would improve your overal performance, hopefully.
[03:19] <DaemonFC> I think speedboot+moving X to tty1
[03:19] <maco> if you dont raise it, i will :P
[03:19] <dtchen> he's much better equipped to explain whether it's being considered for karmic
[03:19] <DaemonFC> could solve a lot of speed problems
[03:19] <dtchen> hwno, read the mythical man-month
[03:19] <maco> pregnant woman fallacy!
[03:19] <dtchen> maco: of course
[03:20] <maco> if 1 woman takes 9 months to produce a baby, does that mean 9 women can produce a baby in 1 month?
[03:20] <DaemonFC> yep
[03:20] <DaemonFC> that woman in California
[03:20] <DaemonFC> no doubt
[03:20] <DaemonFC> B-)
[03:21] <hmw> 9 women can procduce 9 babys in the same time one woman produces one. dtchen has certainly more than only one project to work on ;)
[03:21] <hmw> i would like to have the ability to sit with some copies of me in the same room, working on things
[03:21] <maco> he doesnt do much beyond sound, really....
[03:21] <dtchen> hm	back when i was core-dev, yes
[03:21] <dtchen> now that my $dayjob occupies the majority of my time, i concentrate on audio
[03:21] <maco> not nowadays, at least
[03:24] <hmw> gnome monitor seems to use 100% cpu for 10 seconds every 40 seconds...!?
[03:24] <dtchen> DaemonFC: anyhow, the issues you raised are known, and there will be changes to address some of them
[03:25] <hmw> wb DaemonFC
[03:25] <DaemonFC> ty
[03:25] <DaemonFC> http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1175/screenshotjnl.png
[03:26] <DaemonFC> my desktop
[03:26] <rww> DaemonFC: this channel is for Jaunty questions and support. Could you kindly stay on-topic, please?
[03:26] <DaemonFC> heh
[03:26] <DaemonFC> sure, back to the kernel
[03:27] <DaemonFC> 2.6.28 didn't live long enough for me to check my wifi with it
[03:27] <DaemonFC> is it using Minstrel?
[03:27] <hmw> should network manager work better in jaunty?
[03:28] <DaemonFC> Network Manager is fine, but without Minstrel, you'll get crappy wifi connections in many situations
[03:28] <DaemonFC> that's why I was asking
[03:28] <rww> DaemonFC: not according to your blog entry from yesterday, it isn't.
[03:28] <DaemonFC> I know it was an option in 2.6.28
[03:28] <DaemonFC> rww
[03:28] <DaemonFC> it was marked as not in the config file
[03:30] <DaemonFC> so unless Ubuntu has some magical way of compiling kernels bypassing the standard configuration option, I guess it didn't
[03:30] <DaemonFC> but the universe is infinitely perverse, isn't it?
[03:30] <rww> DaemonFC: If you happen to have a way for me to check on a running Jaunty system whether it's enabled, I'd be happy to do so for you.
[03:31] <DaemonFC> well, if you're on affected hardware you can't miss the old algorithm
[03:31] <DaemonFC> right click network manager and click connection information
[03:32] <DaemonFC> if you have a decent speed you're either lucky or the kernel has minstrel
[03:32] <crdlb> # CONFIG_MAC80211_RC_DEFAULT_MINSTREL is not set
[03:32] <crdlb> CONFIG_MAC80211_RC_MINSTREL=y
[03:32] <DaemonFC> the old rat e control dialed my connection to 1M
[03:33] <DaemonFC> Minstrel right now has chosen 54M
[03:33] <DaemonFC> I would say Minstrel works better
[03:33] <rww> DaemonFC: I'm using the rtl8187 module, which had significant problems that were only fixed recently. I don't know whether that's because of some fixes I saw in the 2.6.28 changelogs, or because of this minstrel thing.
[03:34] <rww> and iwconfig shows my bit rate as 54MB/s
[03:34] <hmw> when i connect my hsdpa modem, network manager seems to ignore it... i could only use it via terminal
[03:34] <hmw> 8.10 at least showed it in the list... but wasnt able to connect
[03:34] <DaemonFC> rt61pci and b43 are both affected by the crappy speed settings of the old rate control
[03:34] <DaemonFC> and both fixed with Minstrel
[03:35] <DaemonFC> I compiled a new kernel on my Debian system because of that alone
[03:35] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: Because of what?
[03:35] <rww> DaemonFC: Looking in /boot/config-2.6.28-11-genetic shows the lines that crdlb posted. I assume that means it's enabled.
[03:36] <DaemonFC> Minstrel
[03:36] <rww> DaemonFC: in which case, you might want to adjust that blog entry somewhat ;)
[03:36] <DaemonFC> when did that land>
[03:36] <DaemonFC> I know I never had that kernel
[03:36] <Amaranth> zorkerz had an easy problem, btw
[03:36] <Amaranth> wish I would have been here to help fix it
[03:37] <Amaranth> would have taken about 30 seconds (times 5 because compiz is running 5 times too slow)
[03:37] <Amaranth> minstrel? what is that?
[03:37] <DaemonFC> http://linuxwireless.org/en/developers/Documentation/mac80211/RateControl/minstrel
[03:39] <rww> DaemonFC: 2.6.28-7.20 from the beginning of February has a changelog entry about a minstral fix, so I'd guess it's been enabled since before then.
[03:39] <DaemonFC> the config I copied over to use as a template said it wasn't
[03:39] <rww> could be wrong about that, but I don't see anything else about minstrel in there.
[03:40] <rww> DaemonFC: well, the kernel version I'm using came out on the 20th (day after your blog post) and it says minstrel is on, so heh.
[03:40] <rww> day before **
[03:41] <DaemonFC> I believe my disc was from March 12th
[03:41] <DaemonFC> or round about
[03:41] <DaemonFC> why update something you're going to remove anyway?
[03:41] <rww> DaemonFC: do you happen to remember the kernel version it had?
[03:42] <DaemonFC> whatever was on the daily installer I grabbed
[03:42]  * DaemonFC shrugs
[03:42] <mhjacks> Anyone here interested in VNC?
[03:44] <gideonite> So I just installed Jaunty A-6 in VirtualBox and it doesn't seem to like the virtual graphics adapter, anyone else have this problem?
[03:44]  * Amaranth kills his kernel compile, looks up minstrel config
[03:45]  * rww downloads the March 11th kernel release
[03:46] <Amaranth> minstrel kills battery life, bad
[03:46] <Amaranth> it wakes up 10 times a second to check the rate
[03:46] <Amaranth> at least the wifi itself shuts up if I'm not using it right now
[03:47] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: Set HZ=100 if you're on a laptop, dynamic ticks should be on anyway
[03:47] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: dynamic ticks means HZ=100 doesn't do anything
[03:47] <DaemonFC> that should prevent a flood of interrupt requests
[03:47] <Amaranth> and that's still 100 times a second which means minstrel could do its thing 10 times a second
[03:48] <Amaranth> and with NO_HZ it can do it however often it wants with no time restrictions
[03:48] <DaemonFC> hasn't affected my laptop any
[03:48] <DaemonFC> I still get a couple hours, give or take
[03:49] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: You can try to guess a point where the link doesn't become unstable and is not unacceptably slow
[03:50] <DaemonFC> but that sucks
[03:51] <rww> DaemonFC: The earliest kernel version I could find on the mirrors is 2.6.28-9. It came out the day before you said your disc did, and has minstrel enabled.
[03:53] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: amd64/config:1674:CONFIG_MAC80211_RC_MINSTREL=y
[03:54] <Amaranth> that's in the kernel
[03:54] <Amaranth> i386/config:1762:CONFIG_MAC80211_RC_MINSTREL=y
[03:54] <Amaranth> that too :P
[03:54]  * DaemonFC hrrmms
[03:56] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: it isn't the default though
[03:56] <Amaranth> # CONFIG_MAC80211_RC_DEFAULT_MINSTREL is not set
[03:57] <m_tadeu> hi all
[03:57]  * crdlb already pasted both of those options
[03:57] <DaemonFC> that's what I was about to say
[03:57]  * Amaranth changed it to be the default
[03:57] <Amaranth> I'm not sure what we're talking about then
[03:57] <m_tadeu> dragon player doesn't deactivate the screen saver...is it a bug or a missing feature?
[03:57] <DaemonFC> Minstrel should be the default, bar none, it does an astoundingly better job
[03:57] <Amaranth> I thought DaemonFC wanted it and was complaining we didn't have it
[03:58] <Amaranth> ah, he wants it to be the default :P
[03:58] <crdlb> if minstrel is enabled but not default, how does it get selected?
[03:58] <rww> Amaranth: that's correct. He wrote a blog post about how Jaunty sucks because of 1) notifications and 2) not having it, too.
[03:58] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: Isn't Ubuntu supposed to Just Work(TM) with Happy People(R)?
[03:58] <DaemonFC> This should help to that end
[03:58] <Amaranth> minstrel is still new stuff
[03:59] <DaemonFC> I would say it should be high priority
[03:59] <Amaranth> it's based on the madwifi stuff but that doesn't mean it is old well tested code
[03:59] <DaemonFC> especially since everything is wireless now
[03:59] <Amaranth> and we don't want to break wifi for people
[03:59] <Amaranth> well, not for a stupid reason like that, anyway
[03:59] <DaemonFC> 1M vs. 54M
[04:00] <DaemonFC> I know how to build a new kernel or select a rate
[04:00] <DaemonFC> does a new user? no
[04:00] <Amaranth> the current code will drop to 1M when 54M stops working
[04:00] <Amaranth> the thing minstrel improves upon is getting back up to 54M when it is possible to do so
[04:00] <DaemonFC> and that's braindead stupid
[04:00] <DaemonFC> and that's why Minstrel is now used
[04:00] <rww> Those lines we pasted above mean that minstrel is enabled in Jaunty's kernel but not in upstream by default? or am I reading wrtong?
[04:00] <Amaranth> and figuring out when 11M is actually better than 1M
[04:00] <DaemonFC> rww: Optional in 2.6.28
[04:01] <DaemonFC> Default in 2.6.29
[04:01] <DaemonFC> in vanilla kernels
[04:01] <Amaranth> and in 9.10 we'll probably have it be the default
[04:01] <LordKow> was the question as to how to enable minstrel ever answered?
[04:02] <Amaranth> LordKow: No, because I couldn't find anything in /sys
[04:02] <DaemonFC> no it wasn't
[04:02] <LordKow> /lib/linux-restricted-modules/2.6.28-10-generic/ath_rate_minstrel maybe you just need to load the mod
[04:02] <Amaranth> "Note that this default can still be overriden through the ieee80211_default_rc_algo module parameter if different algorithms are available."
[04:02] <LordKow> oh thats not the base minstrel module though i think
[04:03] <DaemonFC> that sounds easy..... (sarcasm)
[04:03] <bruce89> DaemonFC: you're taking my job away
[04:03] <Amaranth> No, you need to do sudo modprobe mac80211 ieee80211_default_rc_algo=minstrel
[04:04] <Amaranth> err, ieee80211 maybe
[04:04] <Amaranth> although that seems to not be a module
[04:04] <Amaranth> I dunno, you need to modprobe something with that option
[04:06] <LordKow> [15955.026987] ieee80211: Unknown parameter `ieee80211_default_rc_algo'
[04:06] <LordKow> must be mac because that did not give me any errors... now did it have any effect though? dunno
[04:09] <LordKow> maybe you just simply need to modprobe ath_rate_minstrel? [16149.241085] ath_rate_minstrel: Minstrel automatic rate control algorithm 1.2 (0.9.4)
[04:10] <crdlb> phy0: Selected rate control algorithm 'minstrel'
[04:11] <crdlb> LordKow: you're using madwifi?
[04:12] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: where is this blog post, anyway?
[04:13] <Amaranth> crdlb: what did you do?
[04:13] <crdlb> exactly what you suggested
[04:13] <crdlb> with mac80211
[04:13] <LordKow> no, crdlb
[04:14] <crdlb> LordKow: then, no, I don't think it's relevant :)
[04:14] <crdlb> ath_* is madwifi
[04:14] <LordKow> ah yea atheros, shows how much i know about madwifi
[04:14]  * crdlb uses ath5k
[04:15] <rww> Amaranth: PM?
[04:17] <Amaranth> rww: sure
[04:17] <crdlb> it's sad when your wifi is running slower than your Internet connection
[04:17] <Amaranth> oh god
[04:20] <crdlb> I think my awful actiontec router needs a reboot
[04:28] <DaemonFC> indeed
[04:28] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: I threw out a Mepis disc, speaking of modules
[04:29] <DaemonFC> because they don't "allow" you to use anything but Ext2/3
[04:29] <DaemonFC> so I hope that if the file systems are ever on the chopping block, that Ubuntu wouldn't go that route
[04:30] <JCDG> hello, I was using flashplugin nonfree with INtrepid, but after i updated my system to Jaunty, it does not anymore, every time i want to see anything in flash, ie Youtube it says that i don't have the plugin, but then whe I follow the steps on firefox, it says that i have it.
[04:30] <Amaranth> I could see a day when only the traditional desktop filesystems are allowed when installing using the LiveCD
[04:30] <rww> JCDG: are you using 32bit or 64bit?
[04:30] <DaemonFC> that flashplayer package is awful
[04:31] <JCDG> 32, Jaunty 32, but my processor is a core2 duo
[04:31] <DaemonFC> it spews so many files and crap into so many folders where any browser could possibly look for plugins
[04:31] <DaemonFC> then does not clean them up if you remove the package
[04:31] <Amaranth> those are all symlinks, of course
[04:31] <rww> JCDG: do you see anything flash-related if you go to "about:plugins" (put that in your address bar) in Firefox?
[04:32] <DaemonFC> they still cause problems if you go to get rid of it and use the one straight from Adobe
[04:32] <JCDG> let me check rww...
[04:32] <rww> DaemonFC: You realize you can remove that package and the symlinks go away, right?
[04:32] <DaemonFC> rww: They didn't when I tried it
[04:32] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: How could they cause problems when uninstalling the package cleans them up?
[04:32] <rww> DaemonFC: did you purge the package?
[04:32] <DaemonFC> I ended up using locate to find where it put all of them
[04:32] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: If dpkg -L lists them they will go away when you uninstall the package
[04:32] <DaemonFC> I always purge anything I don't want back :)
[04:33] <JCDG> There's nothing related to flash in the about:config
[04:33] <DaemonFC> the package seems to be a stub that downloads the files and makes the links
[04:33] <DaemonFC> but removing the package seems to just remove this stub
[04:34] <JCDG> this is what appears: accessibility.typeaheadfind.flashBar
[04:34] <JCDG> and:browser.download.manager.flashCount
[04:34] <rww> JCDG: consider just getting the Adobe version from http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
[04:34] <JCDG> only those thing related to flash, but not to flash plugin
[04:35] <rww> JCDG: I said about:plugins, not about:config :/
[04:35] <JCDG> sorry...
[04:36] <JCDG> rww, there's not any entry for flash in there..
[04:36] <rww> JCDG: if you get the .tar.gz from that link, you can extract the libflashplayer.so in it to /home/yourusername/.mozilla/plugins (create the plugins folder if it isn't there already), or use the installer. Or, get the .deb and install it.
[04:36] <DasEi> JCDG: consider using opera, the flash does well there
[04:36]  * rww did the .mozilla/plugins thing, works fine for me
[04:37]  * DasEi huzzled few howtos, now already working, waiting for the alpha
[04:37] <JCDG> but first i have to uninstall the nonfree, right?
[04:38] <rww> JCDG: shouldn't make a difference if Firefox isn't picking up any Flash stuff right now, but yeah, it's probably a good idea
[04:38] <DasEi> JCDG: depends on which solution you want to follow
[04:38] <JCDG> rww which installer are u talking about??--
[04:38] <rww> JCDG: in the .tar.gz? there's a flashplayer-installer file
[04:39] <cwillu> hmm
[04:39] <cwillu> machine hung during fsck
[04:39] <cwillu> this should be fun
[04:39] <rww> I just ignored that and copied libflashplayer.so to ~/.mozilla/plugins/ *shrug*
[04:39] <Amaranth> wtf
[04:39] <JCDG> ok...let me do that...and i'll let u know what happened...
[04:39] <Amaranth> the kernel package is doing ABI checks even though AUTOBUILD is supposed to make it skip ABI checks
[04:39] <cwillu> rww, our version is the adobe version
[04:40] <DasEi> though sound is sometimes crippling / fading,  seldom though
[04:40] <rww> JCDG: looking at launchpad, though, you could probably just reinstall our package
[04:40] <rww> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/326609
[04:40] <rww> apparently it fails to download during the intrepid>jaunty upgrade sometimes because the network gets disabled
[04:41] <JCDG> I did that, but still didn't work...
[04:41] <rww> s/our/Ubuntu's/
[04:41] <LordKow> hm i think that happened to me. ended up removing nspluginwrapper and flashplugin-nonfree (using amd64) and reinstalled... everything fine since
[04:41] <Amaranth> ah, skipabi=true
[04:41] <Amaranth> dang build system changes
[04:42] <picklesworth> Wow, this is pretty bad...
[04:42] <DasEi> JCDG: as I said, easiest was to install ubuntu-restricted-extras (contains flash), then using opera
[04:42] <picklesworth> Just had an experience with 4 rogue processes going at the same time
[04:42] <picklesworth> killing all my CPU resources
[04:43] <rww> DasEi: ubuntu-restricted-extras recommends flashplugin-nonfree, which he said isn't working.
[04:43] <DasEi> rww: .. for ff,  yes but does for opera
[04:43] <Amaranth> DasEi: Quit trying to push your browser, it's just a package problem
[04:43] <Amaranth> Reinstall package, flash works
[04:44] <picklesworth> (Oops, typo: 3) I was going through the interesting looking native games and seeing how they'd improved. Turns out neither Wesnoth nor Wormux exited properly and were leaking memory like crazy, then Java turned out to be doing its CPU-sucking thing again as well. I really hope this all revolves around the same audio problem...
[04:44] <LordKow> the problem is as commented in the bug report. NM gets killed during the upgrade and hence flash cannot download. flash is downloaded from adobe during installation not when the rest of the packages are downloaded.
[04:44] <JCDG> I reinstalled it, It was the first thing i did, but, i does not work anymore...
[04:44] <LordKow> so in theory if a package like... nvidia-cg-toolkit ever needs to get installed/updated during a dist-upgrade then that will likely fail for the exact same reason
[04:45] <rww> how come NM dies during the upgrade, anyway?
[04:45] <dtchen> probably because hal gets restarted
[04:45] <LordKow> what dtchen said
[04:46] <rww> makes sense. So if I were using /etc/network/interfaces instead, wifi would stay up, I guess.
[04:46] <JCDG> yeah rww,
[04:46] <DasEi> rww: isn't that what dkms is for ?
[04:47] <Amaranth> no...
[04:47] <rww> DasEi: DKMS has nothing to do with hal restarting :/
[04:47] <Amaranth> wow, that is so what dkms isn't for I'm surprised you managed to think up that idea
[04:48] <JCDG> rww, it is working now
[04:48] <LordKow> dkms = dynamic kernel module support
[04:48] <rww> JCDG: yay :)
[04:48] <LordKow> man dkms is so much better than my explanation
[04:48] <JCDG> rww, I use the method of copying the .so file into the plugins folder
[04:49] <JCDG> thxssss a lot...
[04:49] <rww> JCDG: No problem. Glad I could help :)
[04:49] <JCDG> rww, so now, why  does this occur??
[04:50] <rww> JCDG: I'd have to look at some of your logs to be sure, but Ubuntu's flash package probably didn't upgrade properly for one of a few reasons.
[04:50] <JCDG> I want to help with ubuntu development, where should I start???...
[04:50] <rww> !contribute | JCDG
[04:50]  * Amaranth misses the days where all the conversation in here was details of Xorg wrt compositing and other various complicated things
[04:51] <LordKow> nah now we moved on... im trying to guesstimate what all the hype is going to be about now
[04:51] <LordKow> libnotify perhaps?
[04:51] <DasEi> .. and a plugin is no modul k, but nm ? sorry for still learning
[04:51] <Amaranth> LordKow: hype?
[04:51] <LordKow> the center of conversation, my bad wrong word choice.
[04:52] <picklesworth> On the up side, that was the quickest reboot ever :)
[04:52] <Amaranth> LordKow: This was more like developer talk, not users who know a bit about a subject talk
[04:52] <Amaranth> picklesworth: I love how it uses kexec now
[04:52] <LordKow> ah
[04:52] <LordKow> well i would think that developer talk would take place in #ubuntu-dev ;)
[04:52] <picklesworth> I'll just have to go and yell at someone for using ARGB for gnome-system-monitor
[04:52] <Amaranth> why? it's neat
[04:52] <picklesworth> and then it'll be perfect :)
[04:53] <Amaranth> and actually every window in your desktop is supposed to look like that with that theme
[04:53] <picklesworth> It feels sluggish somehow, and I'm willing to blame that
[04:53] <JCDG> rww do u know those reasons?, or some of them?
[04:53] <Amaranth> but gnome-system-monitor seems to be the only app willfully using ARGB
[04:53] <picklesworth> okay, it probably isn't that
[04:54] <picklesworth> but it is botheringly strange. Try scrolling through items in the process list with the keyboard. Does it kind of stumble up and hang at some point, or is it just me?
[04:54] <LordKow> oh i bet plymouth will get a lot of buzz for 9.10
[04:54] <Amaranth> With the theme you're using any app that supports ARGB colormaps will look translucent like that
[04:54] <LordKow> there will be a strong tendency to want to stick with usplash because it's... well UBUNTU splash. :P
[04:55] <Amaranth> man, usplash
[04:55] <Amaranth> original name: splashy
[04:55] <picklesworth> yar, ARGB is nice. I get the impression themes aren't really thinking it through with regards to what is transparent and what isn't, though
[04:55] <Amaranth> someone else thought they wrote splashy for us before we got to it but it was nothing like we needed so the name had to change
[04:55] <Amaranth> ubiquity went through the same thing
[04:56] <LordKow> i think the longest standing non-version-changed package has to be grub
[04:56] <picklesworth> for example, transparent scrollbars. I imagine some day down the line there'll be some design sense involved there.
[04:56] <LordKow> non-maintainer changed, that is.
[04:56] <LordKow> maybe grub2 will take over one of these releases.
[04:58] <Amaranth> ha
[04:58] <Amaranth> grub2 is kind of like xmms2
[04:58] <Amaranth> nothing like the original and never going to be ready
[04:59] <DaemonFC> meh, I don't ever have to run fsck
[04:59] <LordKow> fstab does it for you :)
[04:59] <DaemonFC> XFS can heal most anything short of a complete disaster without user intervention
[04:59] <LordKow> ah
[05:00] <DaemonFC> in which case you offline the volume
[05:00] <DaemonFC> and run xfs_repair
[05:00] <Amaranth> XFS doesn't zero files on crash anymore?
[05:00] <DaemonFC> Amaranth That bug never really existed
[05:00] <DaemonFC> Eric Sandeen explained it on his blog
[05:01] <DaemonFC> and the issue mistaken for it was fixed nearly 2 years ago
[05:01] <LordKow> heh and for the record, ext4 has no data loss trouble. at least, it's not ext4 working not as intended.
[05:01] <DaemonFC> well, they have patches addressing Ext4 fs corruption bugs in Linux 2.6.29
[05:01] <DaemonFC> quite a few really
[05:02] <LordKow> a lot of it is nothing, really.
[05:02] <Amaranth> Those are "the app doesn't something wrong but we'll kill performance so people don't cry" fixes
[05:02] <LordKow> people's computers crash before the journal writes the info.
[05:02] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: If you have XFS questions, Eric Sandeen is in #xfs
[05:02] <Amaranth> No, the journal writes just fine
[05:02] <DaemonFC> it's really a great file system
[05:02] <Amaranth> The data doesn't
[05:02] <DaemonFC> I'd call it the best on Linux
[05:02] <LordKow> most of the ext4 2.6.29 patches were  backported to 2.6.28
[05:02] <DaemonFC> but Ext4 is close enough for most workloads
[05:03] <LordKow> i dunno xfs might be outdone by btrfs. we shall see.
[05:03] <DaemonFC> I've used btrfs
[05:03] <DaemonFC> It was not a great experience, but it is still very new
[05:03] <DaemonFC> so I'm not going to trash talk it
[05:03] <LordKow> yea i think we'll know btrfs' potential after 2.6.30 comes out.
[05:04] <DaemonFC> Fedora 11 Alpha supports it if you use the installer arguement "icantbelieveitsnotbtr"
[05:04] <DaemonFC> B-)
[05:04] <LordKow> lol
[05:04] <cwillu> DaemonFC, reiserfs has exactly the same issues (I just got finished dealing with a bunch of zero'd files on somebody's eeepc fs due to reiser doing exactly the same thing :)
[05:05] <LordKow> v4?
[05:05] <DaemonFC> ReiserFS? You'd have to be crazy, stupid, or both, to format anything into ReiserFS
[05:05] <cwillu> pro tip, dpkg status files going blank is loads of fun
[05:05] <DaemonFC> I used to use Reiser back when there was that or Ext2
[05:06] <cwillu> DaemonFC, sure as hell not putting ext3 on it without a journal, and I'm not putting an ext3 journal on a flash-based system
[05:06] <DaemonFC> not exactly great options, but Reiser was better
[05:06] <Amaranth> reiserfs kills your wife^Wdata
[05:06] <picklesworth> The name is kind of tainted, too :P
[05:06] <DaemonFC> cwillu: Use Ext4
[05:06] <DaemonFC> with journalling off
[05:06] <Amaranth> cwillu: logfs?
[05:06] <cwillu> DaemonFC, you're dumb
[05:06] <DaemonFC> if you need a fs with no journal
[05:06] <cwillu> oh, sorry, I didn't realize I was supposed to put jaunty on production machines
[05:07] <DaemonFC> you need Linux 2.6.29 for that though
[05:07] <cwillu> nor did I realize jaunty was available a year and a half ago
[05:07]  * cwillu smacks DaemonFC with the cluestick
[05:07] <DaemonFC> you don't need Jaunty for that
[05:07] <DaemonFC> just the kernel and disk tools
[05:08] <DaemonFC> a compiler helps
[05:08] <DaemonFC> B-)
[05:08] <cwillu> DaemonFC, just stop talking to me :p
[05:08] <crdlb> but you'd need a time machine ...
[05:08] <DaemonFC> crdlb: Other than a kernel module and e2fsprogs that understand Ext4
[05:08] <cwillu> I'm actually wishing I just used ext3 with the journal on the external ssd
[05:08] <DaemonFC> what else could you need?
[05:08] <cwillu> what's ten bucks a month spent replacing the journal flash? :)
 nor did I realize jaunty was available a year and a half ago
[05:09] <cwillu> (the implication being that this machine was set up a year and a half ago)
[05:09] <DaemonFC> you could also use XFS, I believe it has a no journal mode
[05:10] <cwillu> yep, it was a toss up between xfs and reiser, although I got the impression that reiser was better tested in the flash-drive-as-root-fs case
[05:10] <cwillu> mistakes were made, heads were detached, and DaemonFC's were smack in the head
[05:10] <DaemonFC> ReiserFS could kill your fs and hide it under the dancing b* tree
[05:10] <cwillu> all's well that ends well :)
[05:10] <DaemonFC> but it's your data B-)
[05:10] <cwillu> no, it's not my data
[05:10] <cwillu> my data is on ext3, and is backed up every night :p
[05:11] <cwillu> oooo, uxa is working on my laptop!
[05:11] <DaemonFC> I use Ext4 no journal on my flash stick
[05:11] <cwillu> the obscene thing there being that I didn't change anything, and it didn't work 10 minutes ago
[05:12] <cwillu> DaemonFC, that's nice, but I'm not in the habit of mucking around with machines that won't be in my possession in the field
[05:12] <DaemonFC> the ATI fairly came and left a working driver under your pillow
[05:12] <cwillu> yes, I _love_ troubleshooting mismatched kernel's and libc's over the telephone :)
[05:12] <DaemonFC> it happens......I believe
[05:12] <Amaranth> UXA is intel...
[05:12] <DaemonFC> meh
[05:12] <cwillu> just keep digging
[05:13] <DaemonFC> I don't really use anything but Nvidia
[05:13]  * crdlb doesn't really use anything but !nvidia
[05:13] <DaemonFC> I have an Intel integrated chipset but I've never used it
[05:13] <DaemonFC> wow
[05:13] <DaemonFC> we're synchronized
[05:13] <cwillu> I got an nvidia-based laptop to suspend once
[05:13] <lymeca> So 9.04 will officially support i386, amd64, arm, and lpia?
[05:13]  * cwillu thinks back to the summer of '08
[05:14] <cwillu> lymeca, believe so
[05:14] <cwillu> ooo, I should install it on my n800!
[05:14] <DaemonFC> unfortunately I'm torn between 3 distributions, and one of the reasons for that is that "Have you seen Ubuntu on PPC?"
[05:14] <DaemonFC> :P
[05:16] <crdlb> cwillu: I have one with an NV11 that suspends with nv
[05:16] <crdlb> it just doesn't resume :D
[05:16] <cwillu> heh
[05:16]  * crdlb thankfully doesn't have to use that laptop
[05:17] <crdlb> now that I think about it, isn't there some kernel module which hacks suspend onto nv?
[05:25] <Fudge> is it possible to change 810 repositries to jaunty and update to it?
[05:26] <dtchen> yes, but the recommended method is to use `do-release-upgrade -d'
[05:26] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: Ext4 max volume size is 16 Terabytes, XFS max volume size is 16,777,216 Terabytes
[05:26] <DaemonFC> XFS was designed with limits that will never practically be reached
[05:27] <|ns|nR8> dahm, what are we going to do if we can only have 16TB in 1 partition
[05:27] <DaemonFC> that was just one example of how XFS is ludicrously better B-)
[05:27] <rww> DaemonFC: Wikipedia claims that ext4's max volume size is 1 exabyte
[05:27] <Fudge> what does the -d flag do?
[05:28] <rww> 16 TB is the maximum *file* size
[05:28] <DaemonFC> ahh, I was looking at max file size
[05:28] <Amaranth> aww, where am I going to put my Dirac Pro SHD files?
[05:29] <DaemonFC> So it's 1,048,576 terabytes for ext4, and 16,777,216 terabytes for XFS
[05:30] <DaemonFC> rww: Darn it, now I just have to edit Wikipedia
[05:30] <DaemonFC> drat
[05:30] <DaemonFC> :)
[05:30] <Fudge> dtchen?
[05:31] <cwillu> Fudge, allows an upgrade to unreleased releases
[05:31] <dtchen> Fudge: -d, --devel-release   Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible
[05:32] <Fudge> sweet as, does the upgrade also have the ability to then fetch new packages for the same release such as gnome 2.26
[05:32] <cwillu> Fudge, generally for any command, <command> --help will give you useful information
[05:32] <cwillu> Fudge, jaunty is 2.26
[05:32] <Fudge> it didnt, neither was there a man page
[05:32] <cwillu> Fudge, do-release-upgrade --help most definately does show it
[05:32] <Fudge> oh sheesh,
[05:32] <Fudge> im sorry it did i didnt read down further
[05:32]  * Fudge :$
[05:32] <Fudge> i use a screen reader, thast my excuse though be it not a very good one
[05:32] <cwillu> uh, it's the second line of the --help :p
[05:33] <Fudge> there was a blank line so i thought it had finished
[05:33] <Fudge> think of it like reading on a single line display
[05:33] <Fudge> thanks guys, you're very helpful. im looking forward to all the new orca fixes
[05:34]  * cwillu pokes Fudge with an audible stick
[05:34] <Amaranth> Fudge: What does orca say for :p?
[05:34] <Fudge> coon pee
[05:34] <Fudge> colon
[05:34] <Fudge> though im on mirc at the moment
[05:34] <Amaranth> Fudge: Also, I certainly hope orca is working better these days, orca and/or all of my applications used to lock up when using it in 2.22
[05:35] <cwillu> Fudge, and →?
[05:35] <cwillu> (I'm looking for an excuse to poke magnetron for using it on all his messages)
[05:35] <Fudge> there are soem packages that apparently use really old libraries that give a clearer more audible speech called eloquence but since im like a noob i 1. havnt bought it and 2. not sure if i could set it up. the orca speech is ok to use but no where as clear as it could be using a different voice
[05:36] <Fudge> cwillu a cercim flex
[05:36] <cwillu> Fudge, no unicode support, eh?
[05:36] <Fudge> Amaranth i find often that i need to reload it and then play round alt tabbing and moving round to just get it to start reading the terminal again
[05:36] <Fudge> i work in screen alot so can logout of gnome without to much disruption
[05:37] <Fudge> you can create dictionary rules though for things like that
[05:37] <Amaranth> Fudge: that's a shame, someone should pay more attention to such problems
[05:37] <Fudge> i only started using ubuntu as a desktop since 810, i didnt know about orca and that it was so easy to get going
[05:37] <DaemonFC`> cwillu: Ubuntu kernels can load Reiser4, what's stopping you? B-)
[05:37] <Fudge> previosuly ive ssh'd into ubuntu systems and my freebsd server
[05:38] <Fudge> its quite a good screen reader out of the box, i woudl like the speech to go faster though, not sure how to do it. mine is set to 99 already
[05:39] <Fudge> is xfce still a gnome desktop, i know thats not a very clear question. is it like an overlay or a completely different desktop as is kde to gnome
[05:39] <cwillu> Fudge, it's a different desktop that happens to reuse alot of pieces
[05:40] <DaemonFC`> hmmmm, my modem keeps giving time out errors
[05:40] <cwillu> it uses gtk like gnome does, and a few of the config applets and so forth
[05:40] <Fudge> i just wondered if it would be better to use something slightly different since my needs for a pretty gui are minimal
[05:41] <Fudge> be back soon
[05:41] <LordKow> i think xfce is a good choice for a minimal wm
[05:42] <LordKow> gnome minus what you would consider a lot of bloat
[05:42] <DaemonFC> my modem requires a Windows PC or a Mac to be hooked up to it or else it won't allow you online
[05:43] <DaemonFC> they have some software that sends the modem an authentication code
[05:43] <DaemonFC> I just happen to be handy B-)
[05:44] <hmw> wohoo! ultima online runs with wine in jaunty!! finally, i can play something again
[05:44] <hmw> (razor was the problem)
[05:44] <DaemonFC> uhhhm, it has for a while
[05:44] <DaemonFC> but OK B-)
[05:46] <Fudge> LordKow does orca run in it though?
[05:48] <Fudge> is it best to upgrade over the net or download an iso file and tell it somehow to use that so u can do other systems as well
[05:50] <CarlFK> why is xorg only using vesa and not nv?  01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Quadro FX 770M (rev a1) http://dpaste.com/17824/
[05:51] <cwillu> CarlFK, line 104
[05:51] <LordKow> well Fudge, i can't answer for certain but orca uses at-spi which is gtk specific. xfce uses gtk. so in theory, it should work.
[05:52] <Fudge> what i need to do then is find someone using it and get them to try for me :)
[05:52] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: I have a Xubuntu notebook here, just checking for you
[05:53] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: Applications > Accessories > Orca Screen Reader and Magnifier
[05:53] <CarlFK> cwillu: nice catch. so... can I just smack it in?
[05:54] <Fudge> sweet IntuitiveNipple
[05:54] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: How does one invoke Orca after starting it from the menu? It seems to have hidden in the background, or crashed silently
[05:55] <Fudge> guess its an effort to install xfce from ubuntu, maybe i should download xubuntu then
[05:55] <Fudge> it could crash mate, run orca, insert q will kill it from inside itself
[05:55] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: As far as I know, although I've never tried it, all you should need is to install xubuntu-desktop
[05:55] <Fudge> insert space shoudl bring up the options
[05:56] <Fudge> i had a real hard tiem getting it to say anything when i put ubuntu 810 on my laptop accept for welcoem to orca
[05:56] <Fudge> well thankyou IntuitiveNipple
[05:56] <Halow> Yep. Installing xubuntu-desktop will give you the choice or Ubuntu or Xubuntu when you get to GDM.
[05:56] <Fudge> :)
[05:56] <cwillu> CarlFK, I'd say just use an xorg.conf file and set the driver to nv
[05:57] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: Just trying to test Orca now... I feel like a Whale outta water :)
[05:57] <cwillu> CarlFK, and make sure you report a bug
[05:57] <Fudge> :()
[05:57] <CarlFK> cwillu: I was wondering if that was considered a bug.  agaisnt what package ?
[05:57] <cwillu> (preferably after making sure that nv will actually drive that card :p)
[05:57] <Fudge> make it hard on yourself and turn your monitor off IntuitiveNipple
[05:57] <crdlb_> unless of course nv really doesn't support it :)
[05:57] <cwillu> CarlFK, xorg-driver-video-nv
[05:57] <crdlb_> xserver-xorg-video-nv*
[05:57] <cwillu> CarlFK, worst case, they reassign it to the responsible party
[05:57] <cwillu> crdlb_, ya ya ya :p
[05:57] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: I'd have to use morse then
[05:58] <Fudge> morse?
[05:58] <CarlFK> what's the dpk... command to create a simple xorg.conf?
[05:58] <crdlb_> sudo dexconf
[05:58] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: morse code
[05:58] <rww> CarlFK: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg ?
[05:58] <LordKow> does xorg have a list of supported cards? could see if the Quadro FX 770M is listed
[05:59] <Fudge> laughing out loud
[05:59] <Fudge> thanks guys ill be back later :)
[05:59] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: eeek... ran orca from the command-line, and it dies
[05:59] <Fudge> dodgey
[05:59] <Fudge> lookup the switches to configure its speech output and stuff, i cant recall what it is
[06:00] <CarlFK> rww: that is asking me questions.. there is one that probes the hardware and creates a sane .conf
[06:00] <IntuitiveNipple> Fudge: Am I okay to just start orca at the command line using "orca"
[06:00] <LordKow> CarlFK, you can grab the default from the package source
[06:01] <IntuitiveNipple> Does anyone know how to edit the xfce menu items, or examine their settings?
[06:01] <LordKow> or maybe there isnt one and it is in fact generated
[06:02] <cwillu> CarlFK, the dpkg questions you can just hit enter through, the defaults are selected automatically
[06:03] <cwillu> CarlFK, alternatively, Xorg -configure will generate an xorg file in the current directory, but it tends to dump a little too much into the file, you'll want to clean it up after
[06:04] <DaemonFC> modem is dying
[06:04] <LordKow> CarlFK, you could also try dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical xserver-xorg i dont think there are any critical config priorities with regard to xserver-xorg
[06:04] <crdlb_> 'sudo dexconf' gives you the default xorg.conf
[06:05] <LordKow> that will overwrite xorg.conf, btw
[06:06] <crdlb_> the sudo kind of implies that imho
[06:06] <LordKow> yes, but losing a custom xorg.conf would suck
[06:10] <DaemonFC> hmmm, Amaranth: Proposal to change the theme to Dust by default?
[06:11] <cwillu> LordKow, no, dpkg saves a backup before it rewrites the file
[06:11] <crdlb_> cwillu: dexconf doesn't appear to :/
[06:11] <LordKow> artwork deadline already past :-/
[06:11] <LordKow> *passed
[06:11] <LordKow> er past... nevermind me
[06:11] <cwillu> crdlb_, was referring to dpkg-reconfigure
[06:12] <LordKow> i know dpkg-reconfigure saves backups but dexconf does not
[06:12] <crdlb_> but he wasn't :)
[06:12]  * cwillu shakes transparent windows all over his desktop just to enjoy the proper acceleration again :)
[06:15] <CarlFK> swell: forcing the nv driver:  NV: Ignoring unsupported device 0x10de065c (Quadro FX 770M) at 01@00:00:0
[06:17] <cwillu> well okay then
[06:18] <LordKow> CarlFK, is that on a laptop?
[06:18] <CarlFK> LordKow: yes
[06:20] <cwillu> CarlFK, looks like you need nvidia 180
[06:20] <cwillu> just checked nouveau, doesn't look like they support it either
[06:21] <CarlFK> cwillu: heh - just installed that to see what would happen :)
[06:21] <CarlFK> and yeah, looks like it is not supported
[06:22] <CarlFK> sudo reboot does some neat kexec magic.  I know what kexec does, but what happens if I want the box to do a hardware restart?
[06:23] <cwillu> CarlFK, shutdown :p
[06:32] <CarlFK> cwillu: then trow things at the power button
[06:32] <cwillu> exactly
[06:32] <cwillu> rc helicopter for the remote locations
[06:33] <CarlFK> ok, so nvidia works.  nv not supported.  should I report that?
[06:33] <cwillu> it's known
[06:33] <cwillu> so no
[06:33] <CarlFK> good - i wanted to get to bed
[06:33] <cwillu> well
[06:33] <cwillu> you could make a wishlist :p
[06:33] <CarlFK> and somehow but reports seem to take me at least 20 min
[06:38] <cwillu> CarlFK, kexec -u will unload the target kernel, which should have the effect of turning a kexec reboot into a hardware reboot
[06:39] <cwillu> alternatively, reboot -f will do a real reboot (although that doesn't go through the normal shutdown sequence, so you'll want to switch into single user mode first)
[07:16] <o0Chris0o> anyone here having sound problems in jaunty
[07:32] <keisangi> hi there how can i disable the pc_speaker bell sound thingy in jaunty ?
[07:32] <keisangi> before i used to do rmmod pc_spkr, but this doesn't seem to work anymore ?
[07:32] <keisangi> i tryed with snd_pcsp but such module doesn't seem to exist at all
[07:33] <o0Chris0o> just close out of the terminal window
[07:34] <DaemonFC> they probably compiled it into the kernel
[07:34] <DaemonFC> who knows
[07:34] <o0Chris0o> oh
[07:34] <o0Chris0o> thought your doing a speaker test in terminal
[07:35] <DaemonFC> thats what they did with ipv6 and I didn't catch it when using their config as a template for my vanilla kernel
[07:35]  * o0Chris0o is glad he got his sound working thanks to dtchen
[07:35] <DaemonFC> so I had to compile it AGAIN to get rid of ipv6
[07:36] <DaemonFC> on that pass I also noticed they compiled in Ext2/3/4 which I don't even use
[07:36] <keisangi> o0Chris0o, i see
[07:36] <keisangi> i'll wait until final release of jaunty then i don't want to bother recompiling my kernel
[07:36] <DaemonFC> I think it would be less painful to just start out with a blank config
[07:36] <DaemonFC> B-)
[07:37] <DaemonFC> I probably left out the pc speaker driver
[07:37] <DaemonFC> I do that on every kernel I make anyway
[07:38] <keisangi> btw i have few "sounds" issues with current release (installed alpha6 last week) and kept it up to date, but for example when i want to watch a movie with maplayer, sometimes i have to try 4 or 5 times before sounds accept to start working normaly
[07:39] <keisangi> or listen music with audacious or vlc .. i have to try few times before it accept to work normaly
[07:40] <keisangi> other than that it already work pretty well
[07:40] <DaemonFC> well, for a while Ubuntu had Pulseaudio trying to output to the PC speaker
[07:40] <DaemonFC> I'd really like to know how they did that cause it could replace Chinese trickle torture
[07:41] <bazhang> !ot
[07:41] <DaemonFC> anyway, just leaving it out altogether solves the problem
[07:41] <o0Chris0o> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/
[07:41] <o0Chris0o> oops
[07:41] <DaemonFC> !nazi
[07:41] <DaemonFC> oh wait, nm
[07:41] <o0Chris0o> keisangi: try this test kernal http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/
[07:41] <keisangi> ubottu, you mean this is not the correct channel to speak of such things?
[07:42] <bazhang> !ops | DaemonFC
[07:42] <keisangi> o0Chris0o, i look at the link
[07:43] <keisangi> hum there's no readme files or anything, in what thoses kernel are different from the normal ones ?
[07:43] <o0Chris0o> its basicly a patch
[07:43] <o0Chris0o> it helps with the sound
[07:44] <keisangi> oh really ?
[07:44] <o0Chris0o> it may be best to wait to talk to dtchen
[07:44] <keisangi> just that or there's some other patch applyed ?
[07:44] <keisangi> ic
[07:45] <nalioth> DaemonFC: staying on topic is the easy road
[07:46] <DaemonFC> What about it? My point was to compile it out so it can't cause problems
[07:47]  * DaemonFC loves self-appointed pretend mods such as bazhang
[07:47] <nalioth> ubottu: tell DaemonFC about guidelines
[07:58] <elky> nalioth, let me guess, you got a response in PM?
[07:58] <nalioth> of course i did  :)
[07:59] <nalioth> it was a 10 minute automated +q, if you were wondering about any coincidences
[07:59] <elky> i hope he doesnt know your email address.
[09:02] <Roey> hey all
[09:02] <Roey> sandeep:  heya
[09:02] <sandeep> hi o.o
[09:22] <c_korn> can someone confirm bug 346554 ?
[09:26] <fliegenderfrosch> how save is an upgrade to jaunty at the moment?
[09:26] <scizzo-> define safe
[09:27] <fliegenderfrosch> safe, so I can still boot the machine and won’t have tons of broken packages and if possible no major problems
[09:28] <fliegenderfrosch> (yes, I know about the dangers of beta software and I don’t want to use it on my primary machine)
[09:28] <gnomefreak> a fairly good chance that you will run into problems, but since its beta freeze i would wait until beta2 just to be on the safe side
[09:28] <hmw> flyingfrog: on my notebook it runs better than intrepid. I have seen people in this channel having trouble with gpu drivers. My impression: Jaunty is cool.
[09:30] <gnomefreak> fliegenderfrosch: on a 2d pc where you dont need a broken system should be ok as long as you have one with win or <=intrpid
[09:30] <gnomefreak> but it all depends on what you plan to use it for, testing is not a good answer to that question ;)
[09:31] <hmw> fliegenderfrosch: why not trying out the live cd?
[09:32] <fliegenderfrosch> hmw: the latest alpha isn’t really up to date and the beta isn’t out yet
[09:32] <hmw> ic
[09:33] <fliegenderfrosch> others: thanks for your impressions, I’ll probably do an upgrade in a few days
[09:33] <gnomefreak> fliegenderfrosch: we are running beta at this time however there maybe some updates that will get through just incase something is really really broken
[09:36]  * scizzo- would instead say "try it in a virtualbox machine"
[09:40] <gnomefreak> scizzo-: not everyone can i cant due to memory so i have it installed and its the mainly used version of Ubuntu, i hate building packages in chroot, but i do need to get qmenu working soon
[09:40] <scizzo-> gnomefreak: hmmm true
[09:45] <amortvigil> is it a known bug that your computer doesnt react on starup anymore with jaunty??:S
[10:16] <god-mok> hi, got a problem ;) after a fresh installation i loose my home partition. it happens after i try to install the restricted package (installing windows core fonts cannot be downloaded). after restart i got to the root shel, trying to tell me, that there is an error :/
[10:18] <god-mok> dpkg --configre -a doesn't work at all, and say, there are 2 errors because he can't find some data
[10:20] <cwillu> god-mok, try again, less typos, and more exact error messages :p
[10:21] <god-mok> xD
[10:21] <god-mok> sorry
[10:21] <god-mok> not good at english :/
[10:21] <cwillu> !pastebin | god-mok
[10:22] <cwillu> god-mok, dump the errors and commands you typed into a pastebin ^^^
[10:22] <god-mok> yeah, on my way
[10:35] <cwillu> well, I'm sure glad I didn't stick around for 10 minutes waiting for that pastebin :p
[10:37] <god-mok> http://paste.ubuntu.com/135945/
[10:37] <god-mok> damn, i have t type all down :/
[10:38] <hmw> god-mok: do you know the pastebinit tool?
[10:39] <god-mok> uh, nope. does it work even if i have no connection to the net? ;) my notebook can't connect to the net from the root shell
[10:40] <god-mok> so i have to copy everything manualy
[10:40] <hmw> ic
[10:46] <mefisto__> is there an update notifier for kubuntu jaunty? I've never actually seen a taskbar icon telling me there are updates available, when there are
[10:46] <cwillu> god-mok, /dev/sda8: UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck MANUALLY.
[10:46] <cwillu>         (i.e., without -a or -p options)
[10:46] <cwillu> god-mok, so, run:  fsck /dev/sda8
[10:47] <god-mok> cwillu: k
[10:47] <hmw> "please repair the file system manually"... invokes a picture of the user starting a hex editor
[10:48] <cwillu> hmw, usually not quite that bad :p
[10:48] <cwillu> god-mok, if there's nothing on the machine you care about, it's probably easier to just wipe and reinstall
[10:49] <god-mok> cwillu: ok, it shows for every folder something like this: Entry'lost+found' in / (2) hase an incorrect filetype (was 2, should be 1)... and so on
[10:49] <cwillu> yep, you'll just have to go through it :/
[10:49] <god-mok> cwillu: thats the problem. it is reinstalled
[10:51] <cwillu> god-mok, repartitioned as well?
[10:51] <cwillu> god-mok, i.e., wipe the drive and start completely fresh?
[10:56] <cwillu> buh bye, y'all come back, now, ya hear?
[10:58] <god-mok> yeah, good question ^^
[10:58] <ikonia> hmw: what do you mean check the hard disks ?
[10:58] <ikonia> hmw: on jaunty ?
[10:58] <hmw> that was a general question... i will ask google, how one does a physical test
[10:58] <ikonia> hmw: most makes offer binary applications
[10:58] <kristianholm> what is the difference between the normal kernel and the recovery mode kernel?
[10:59] <ikonia> kristianholm: nothing - single user mode
[10:59] <ikonia> hmw: try to remember this channel is for jaunty disscussion please.
[11:01] <hmw> ...
[11:02] <hmw> god-mok: http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~thelinuxguy/doc/hdtest.html
[11:02] <kristianholm> seems like I have a problem with either the "quite" or "splash" option...
[11:02] <mefisto__> hmw: see man badblocks  for checking a disk physically
[11:03] <god-mok> hmw: gparted should do the same, doesn't it? i mean to check the drive
[11:03] <hmw> mefisto__: according to the page i just linked, it is not a good idea on partitions containing ext{2,3}, and e2fsck would do badblocks in the background, if called accordingly
[11:05] <god-mok> wow, after restart there seems even more damage even to the root files...
[11:05] <mefisto__> hmw: as I understand it, fsck does not do anything to bad blocks, it just marks them so they are no longer used
[11:05] <hmw> what else could it do?
[11:06] <god-mok> hmw: i try to reinstall everything... as mentioned, should be the best/fastest
[11:07] <hmw> god-mok: i strongly recommend a surface scan before getting into troubles again. be certain, if your drive is ok
[11:08] <god-mok> hmw: right,i do so after i run the livecd. thx
[11:10] <mefisto__> is there an update notifier for kubuntu jaunty? I've never actually seen a taskbar icon telling me there are updates available, when there are
[11:12] <god-mok> mefisto__: there is a notification, and even an icon. well, that's what i saw as my installation worked ^^
[11:13] <eMaX> hi all
[11:13] <eMaX> anyone here using an epkowa scanner?
[11:14] <eMaX> or else, anyone here knows how to create a 32bit chroot in jaunty?
[11:15] <tabgal> eMaX, try debootstrap for the chroot w/ --arch
[11:15] <Hobbsee> !chroot
[11:18] <cwillu> tempted to suggest that !chroot should have a mention that it's not intended for security purposes
[11:19] <cwillu> mefisto__, the intended behaviour is that the update manager (or kde equivilent) will open up in the background if there are updates available, at most once a week (or day, for security updates)
[11:22] <mefisto__> god-mok: you talking about kde?
[11:22] <god-mok> mefisto__: kde4
[11:23] <aLeSD_> hi all
[11:23] <god-mok> what else? ;)
[11:23] <aLeSD_> is the Xserver faster in 9.04 ?
[11:25] <scizzo-> aLeSD_: what do you mean faster?
[11:39] <WalterMundt> I'm starting some dev work on top of libtheora, and it seems the libtheora-dev packages are missing some pieces
[11:40] <WalterMundt> namely (a) theora/codec.h which is referenced by the provided theora/theora{enc,dec}.h files
[11:41] <WalterMundt> and -- though this might belong in the binary package (b) /usr/lib/libtheora{enc,dec}.so symlinks
[11:41] <WalterMundt> symlinks with no version are not needed to run compiled applications, but you need them for building with -ltheoradec and -ltheoraenc to work
[11:48] <herrspock> Hello everyone. I have the following problem. I have a fresh install of Kubuntu Jaunty, and Kile does not work with dead keys properly. I can write â but not the symbol ^ alone. I can write both of them in all the other apps.
[11:50] <WalterMundt> just checked bzr for the libtheora source package, looks like said files are indeed missing from libtheora-dev.install file
[12:02] <dennda> Two jaunty machines + quicksynergy on both: The mouse on the client is caught in the upper left corner of the screen and won't move by a pixel. Clicking works. Ideas?
[12:06] <c_korn> can someone confirm bug 346554 ?
[12:06] <gnomefreak> anyone know what java package in repos works for 64bit? i cant remember name and searching for it is no help
[12:23] <god-mok> hmw: great, e2fsck doesn't found any bad blocks or anything... will format partitions and reinstall system. hope it works this time
[12:23] <hmw> i wish you luck
[12:23] <god-mok> thx
[12:24] <hmw> would be interesting to find out, how your fs got corrupted
[12:43] <god-mok> hmw: no luck. now even after fresh installation the systems got corrupted. i try ext3 as filesystem. hope it is only a ext4 problem
[12:57] <vistakiller1> hi
[12:57] <vistakiller1> i think suspend in jaunty has memory leak
[13:00] <hmw> i cant find an option to tell pidgin not to create notification area popups... i just got one due to a contact coming online... how can i influence this?
[13:01] <tgpraveen> hmw in pidgin go to plugins
[13:02] <tgpraveen> there is one notifications there make changes
[13:02] <hmw> thx
[13:03] <vistakiller1> anyone else notice memory leak with suspend?
[13:04] <god-mok> vistakiller1:  not until Alpha 5
[13:05] <vistakiller1> god-mok after suspend you dont have any problems like frame drop with compiz, slow performance etc?
[13:05] <hmw> vistakiller: suspend crashes on my notebook... it did in 8.10, too, though
[13:06] <adred> Hi, my system always reverts to 800x600 resolution each time i log in. Is this expected for alpha releases? will this be fixed on the next release?
[13:06] <vistakiller1> in alpha 6 is work fine but i think it have memory leak
[13:06] <god-mok> vistakiller1:  as i said: not until Alpha 5. alpha 6 makes othe troubles ^^
[13:06] <vistakiller1> adred what gpu card you have?
[13:07] <dennda> Do you need to forward ports for empathy voice&video?
[13:07] <adred> ATI, it's a legacy. I am using kubuntu...
[13:07] <hmw> after updating, i cant login anymore
[13:07] <adred> vistakiller1: ATI, it's a legacy. I am using kubuntu...
[13:08] <vistakiller1> adred have you try to fix xserver in recovery mode?
[13:08] <vistakiller1> and hmw
[13:08] <vistakiller1> my twin brother is gone :P
[13:08] <god-mok> great, reinstall wirth ext3 the same problem. can't activate hardware-driver, and freze after. i think it has someting to do with the dist-upgrade to kernel 2.6.28-11. under 2.6.28-9 there was no such problems...
[13:09] <vistakiller1> have you try to work with the older kernel or fix xserver?
[13:10] <adred> vistakiller1: ATI, X550 to be specific. nope.. I am a noob actually. This is my first testing. Would mind to tell me how to? Or at least show a how-to link?
[13:10] <vistakiller1> there is an option in grub
[13:10] <vistakiller1> that says recovery mode
[13:10] <vistakiller1> when you go there you will find a screen with some options
[13:11] <vbgunz> the "show desktop" plasma widget is never coming back to Kubuntu 9.04?
[13:11] <hmw> my ubuntu doesnt let me in anymore after upgrade... can i reset the password with a live cd?
[13:11] <vistakiller1> one of them is fix xserver
[13:11] <vistakiller1> try this and after choose the option "normal boot"
[13:11] <vistakiller1> hmw what happen
[13:11] <vistakiller1> you cant login?
[13:12] <hmw> "wrong password"
[13:12] <god-mok> hmw: boot into root and edit your user password
[13:12] <hmw> yea, i am trying right now
[13:12] <adred> vistakiller1:alright, I hope I can fix it. thank you!
[13:12] <hmw> thats a really bad bug
[13:12] <vistakiller1> hmw
[13:12] <vistakiller1> if is number pass
[13:13] <vistakiller1> have you try to give it not from numpad but from keyboard?
[13:13] <adred> vistakiller1:one more thing.. will this issue be fixed in the coming beta release?
[13:13] <vistakiller1> i dont know :P
[13:13] <adred> vistakiller1, okay.. thank you!
[13:13] <hmw> i dont use the numpad for passwords
[13:13] <vistakiller1> ok
[13:14] <hmw> resetting the password didnt help
[13:14] <ikonia>  hmw what's the issue ?
[13:14] <hmw> upgraded, rebooted and cant login anymore...
[13:14] <ikonia> hmw: who are you logging in as
[13:15] <hmw> the only user existing
[13:16] <god-mok> hmw: was it a kernel update?
[13:16] <hmw> yes, but booting the old kernel didnt help, either
[13:16] <hmw> might it be pamusb?
[13:18] <god-mok> lookout if your user folder is available. got a similar problem after upgrade, but my home partition was no more mounted, so there was no user
[13:18] <hmw> is avail
[13:18] <god-mok> :/
[13:22] <flips1> Hi. On the UNR pages it claims that UNR Hardy will erase the contents of my HDD. Is that true for the UNR Jaunty Daily image as well, or will I be able to install to the partition of my choice, without deleting unwanted data? (Like in regular ubuntu installs) Or should I ask in a UNR-specific channel?
[13:24] <god-mok> hmw: lookt after /etc/shadow . there is something strange?
[13:25] <god-mok> flips1: link?
[13:25] <hmw> i see about 100 characters in the second column
[13:25] <flips1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR#UNR%20Hardy%20Image%20Installation
[13:26] <flips1> god-mok: there is not such a warning on the Jaunty part of that page ...
[13:26] <god-mok> ah, ok
[13:26] <hmw> newly added user test cant log in, too
[13:27] <ikonia> hmw: sorry was away
[13:27] <ikonia> hmw: how are you adding new users if you can't login ?
[13:27] <hmw> just typed adduser test
[13:27] <hmw> aah... repair mode...
[13:27] <ikonia> hmw: but how are you doing that if you can't login
[13:28] <ikonia> hmw: did you set a password after add user ?
[13:28] <hmw> adduser wanted one
[13:28] <hmw> i am about to create a tty showing the syslog... stand by
[13:29] <thiebaude> hi  hmw
[13:30] <c_korn> can someone confirm bug 346554 ?
[13:30] <hmw> hi
[13:32] <hmw> wow... one message in the log: gdm WARNING coulndt authenticate user
[13:33] <hmw> when putting *.* /dev/tty6 to /etc/syslog.conf, i should see everything, right?
[13:34] <hmw> i want an undo option
[13:36] <god-mok> i want a "autoreset to install date" function. something like a internal backup x)
[13:36] <hmw> god-mok: we could use partimage
[13:37] <god-mok> good idea :)
[13:38] <hmw> nah... that system is kind of dead... set a password for root, but doesnt work either
[13:38] <god-mok> but my partitions got now always corrupted, and sometimes even the mbr... don't know if its the dist-upgrade problem
[13:39] <eMaX> re
[13:39] <eMaX> anyone knows what's up with nautilus-open-terminal ? - seems not to add the menu entry
[13:40] <eMaX> oh skip that - had to kill all nautiluses
[13:42] <scizzo-> eMaX: :S
[13:42] <god-mok> has anyone here made a fresh installation of a daily image with a newer kernel as 2.6.28-10?
[13:42] <hmw> dmesg shows "WARNING: synaptics was reset on resume" - did i restart the system too early??
[13:43] <Amaranth> so I'm got PREEMPT and minstrel by default in my kernel now
[13:43] <Amaranth> I have no idea how to tell if minstrel is being used or not though
[13:43] <hmw> (although a new kernel was installed, i didnt get asked for restarting)
[13:44] <TuTUXG> hmw, i got that touchpad message as well
[13:44] <hmw> what touchpad message?
[13:44] <god-mok> hmw: maybe. i got the "restart" message, but the installation was not complete at the time
[13:45] <TuTUXG> synaptics was reset on resume
[13:45] <hmw> aha... thought it was about the software manager.
[13:46] <TuTUXG> no, it's the synaptics driver
[13:46] <hmw> strange... when dropping to root shell, i get asked for the password, i just set, and can log in
[13:46] <hmw> any ideas, what could prevent me from logging in after i boot further?
[13:47] <thopiekar> hi.. i upgraded from intrepid to jaunty... is it normal that the fontsize is so small?
[13:48] <thopiekar> how can i fix that?
[13:48] <hmw> alright... i am in again... turned off pamusb
[13:49] <hmw> how do I remove the password for root?
[13:50] <eMaX> anyone having problems with /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_2.7ubuntu4_amd64.deb ?
[13:51] <eMaX> ia32-libs comes with an update but doesn't install
[13:52] <god-mok> eMaX: yeah
[13:52] <god-mok> eMaX: after that (and other packages) my ubuntu was trash
[13:52] <eMaX> oh nice
[13:52] <eMaX> so I shouldn't reboot then :)
[13:52] <god-mok> hope you have more luck :)
[13:53] <eMaX> brb (hopefully)
[13:53] <god-mok> well look if your apt cache is not corrupted. if not: congratulation ^^
[13:53] <eMaX> how to look at that?
[13:54] <god-mok> i started synaptic, loaded new, and synaptic closed without warning
[13:54] <jrib> what an interesting bug, I log in and hundreds of nautilus instances start spawning :)
[13:54] <eMaX> jrib that's for free
[13:54] <god-mok> apt-get update gave me a error, and there was a message that apt get closed
[13:55] <eMaX> apt-get update runs
[13:55] <eMaX> apt-get upgrade wants to upgrade ia32 and then does not
[13:56] <god-mok> oh, i hope now it wasnt the same freeze as my...
[13:59] <eMaX> re
[13:59] <eMaX> god-mok, at least I could restart
[13:59] <eMaX> what's weird my fonts have become very small
[13:59] <god-mok> eMaX: what happened?
[14:00] <eMaX> but apart from that looks all god
[14:00] <god-mok> my fonts where very large at the beginning of a fresh install :>
[14:01] <eMaX> I used to use gconftool-2 -t string -s /desktop/gnome/interface/font_name "Sans $1" to change the font size with $1 being like 7 for 7pt
[14:01] <eMaX> that still works, but not for the font sizes of a gnome-terminal, or xchat, only for things like menus and buttons
[14:02] <eMaX> but never mind
[14:02] <eMaX> small fonts look cool anyway
[14:02] <eMaX> rofl
[14:03] <god-mok> isn't the options font size somewhere where the theme options are?
[14:03] <eMaX> yeah I did it that way now for the gnome terminal and xchat
[14:04] <god-mok> one problem less ;)
[14:04] <peppot> has anyone tried xorg-video-ati on jaunty with HD 3470 and seen if its performance is better than xorg-driver-fglrx?
[14:05] <hmw> pfew... that was waking me up
[14:06] <hmw> seems to have been a non-completed update somehow... tried updates again, and there were still 15MB out of initial 50
[14:06] <hmw> ...to download and process
[14:06] <hmw> now even pamusb works again.
[14:06] <hmw> or not
[14:07] <hmw> thats annoying
[14:08] <god-mok> yeah
[14:09] <god-mok> but well, alpha feeling is fine :)
[14:09] <hmw> grr.
[14:09] <god-mok> ;)
[14:10] <aLeSD_> how to make the nvidia driver work with linux-rt ?
[14:10] <aLeSD_> I mean ... I can't compile them 'cause ... no source is provided
[14:10] <adam7_> peppot: I have a 3850 and 3d performance with xorg-video-ati is not as good as xorg-driver-fglrx
[14:11] <Amaranth> adam7_: This is expected
[14:11] <peppot> adam7_, but does it have composite support? fglrx performance is horrible
[14:12] <adam7_> Amaranth: I know, I'm telling peppot
[14:12] <Amaranth> the ati driver should be better for 2d but 3d performance will most likely be 50-70%
[14:12] <peppot> (with metacity or compiz composite, I meant to type)
[14:12] <adam7_> Amaranth: that's exactly my experience
[14:12] <adam7_> ati works *far* better on my laptop than fglrx, though.
[14:12] <peppot> are you all running jaunty, xorg 1.6, fglrx 8.6 and an xorg.conf clean from --force --initial?
[14:13] <Amaranth> The ati driver should be better at 2d, video, and suspend
[14:13] <adam7_> peppot: 8.6?
[14:13] <Amaranth> But the fglrx driver will always be better at 3d
[14:13] <peppot> adam7_, yes
[14:13] <adam7_> that's from last june...
[14:13] <peppot> latest fglrx is marked as such in jaunty
[14:13] <adam7_> peppot: it should be 8.3
[14:13] <adam7_> or 9.3, rather
[14:14] <peppot> Version: 2:8.600-0ubuntu1
[14:14] <peppot> is the name of it
[14:14] <peppot> latest in jaunty
[14:14] <peppot> dunno about the version names
[14:14] <adam7_> peppot: ah, the version numbers don't correspond
[14:14] <adam7_> ok
[14:14] <hmw> how can i disable the root account again after having set a password?
[14:14] <adam7_> that's the version I hvae
[14:14] <peppot> adam7_, maybe I should try "ati" -- desktop effects work OK for you with ati?
[14:15] <adam7_> hmw: sudo passwd root; enter a really long password of random characters and forget what you typed?
[14:15] <hmw> no, i want the original state back
[14:15] <adam7_> peppot: desktop effects do *not* work on my 3850 with ATI
[14:15] <adam7_> hmw: I'm not sure but I think that is the original state
[14:15] <hmw> deleting the password with passwd -d just lets me log in with an empty pwd
[14:15] <peppot> ugh.
[14:16] <adam7_> peppot: if you want acceleration on a r6xx you need fglrx iirc
[14:16] <Amaranth> hmw: passwd -l
[14:16] <hmw> thx
[14:16] <peppot> I'm really hoping I've come across a bug in the fglrx drivers, or else all ATI mobile users are in for a horrible desktop experience if they're to use desktop effects/compositing
[14:16] <adam7_> peppot: what is it doing?
[14:17] <peppot> adam7_, it's very slow
[14:17] <peppot> even just plain metacity without any compositing does simple redraws very slow, visibly...
[14:17] <adam7_> peppot: fglrx is not known for its speed
[14:17] <peppot> alt-tab and I see the redraw
[14:17] <adam7_> peppot: are you sure it is working correctly?
[14:18] <peppot> adam7_, no, not at all
[14:18] <peppot> adam7_, haven't ati been working on this driver for _qiute_
[14:18] <Amaranth> peppot: sounds like you've got a decelerator
[14:18] <adam7_> peppot: type fglrxinfo in a terminal
[14:18] <peppot> _quite some time_?
[14:18] <peppot> adam7_, http://rafb.net/p/wkiEpt41.html
[14:18] <peppot> Amaranth, is what it feels like
[14:18] <Amaranth> vesa would be faster then that
[14:19] <adam7_> peppot: according to that, your driver is wokring correctly
[14:19] <adam7_> does glxgears work?
[14:19] <peppot> adam7, average around 2200 fps
[14:19] <peppot> so yes
[14:19] <peppot> it would seem like it
[14:19] <peppot> but honestly, the last thing I care about is opengl performance
[14:20] <adam7> sounds like everything is working, but 2d is probably just slow
[14:20] <adam7> use the ati driver then
[14:20] <adam7> 2d performance is better but you can't use 3d
[14:20] <adam7> (yet)
[14:20] <peppot> do you know if it supports Composite/desktop effects?
[14:20] <adam7> it does not on r6xx cards
[14:20] <peppot> I mean, the 2d with fglrx is usable
[14:21] <berniv6> I have a similar issue, open source ATI driver (-ati) on r600, performance is good at startup but gets slower after about an hour
[14:21] <peppot> and I hear uninstalling flgrx to use ati can be a mess
[14:21] <berniv6> no compositing (of course), kubuntu
[14:21] <adam7> peppot: there is a nice wiki page on uninstalling fglrx
[14:21] <peppot> what I'd really want is good performance overall
[14:21] <berniv6> did anyone else experience it? fglrx was actually worse
[14:21] <peppot> but I guess that's not achievable right now. too bad.
[14:21] <adam7> berniv6: yeah, my 200M card was the same way in Intrepid
[14:22] <adam7> fortunately the -ati driver now supports it, and I think graphics performance (2D wise) is faster than my ATI 3850
[14:22] <peppot> the 3470 is based on r600 core?
[14:22] <adam7> with fglrx
[14:23] <berniv6> I really can't complain about -ati, works well enough, but it gets sluggish
[14:23] <adam7> berniv6: mine doesn't get sluggish at all...
[14:23] <berniv6> I do a lot of work in konsole (almost all of it), e.g. shifting between the konsole tabs is blazingly fast in the beginning but has noticable lag (~0.5s) after two hours of working
[14:23] <adam7> berniv6: swapping?
[14:24] <hmw> nooo... they put that "feature" in again: when i log out on the console, it switches back to the GUI
[14:24] <berniv6> nopes, no large memory hog either
[14:24] <berniv6> I first thought of a bug in konsole (memory leak), but killing/restarting konsole doesn't help either
[14:24] <berniv6> logging out/in does though
[14:24] <peppot> adam7, did you happen to know where that wiki page was detailing uninstall fglrx?
[14:25] <god-mok> update goes on, but there is the message to restart again... well, well
[14:25] <adam7> peppot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/FglrxInteferesWithRadeonDriver
[14:25] <peppot> adam7, thanks man!
[14:26] <adam7> peppot: run through that and you can try out -ati, if you decide you want fglrx back, you can use the hardware driver thing
[14:27] <adam7> or reinstall the xorg-driver-fglrx package iirc
[14:38] <vistakiller1> i was thinking was suspend but is not that
[14:38] <vistakiller1> when i use my system with compiz
[14:39] <vistakiller1> after one hour i have frame drop and bad performance
[14:39] <vistakiller1> anyone else have this problem?
[14:39] <Amaranth> vistakiller1: UXA?
[14:39] <vistakiller1> what is this?
[14:39] <Amaranth> That'd be a no then
[14:39] <god-mok> ^^
[14:40] <vistakiller1> if i dont know what is this :P
[14:45] <Unggnu> hi all
[14:45] <Unggnu> Does Jaunty come without Tracker per default?
[14:46] <Unggnu> I have installed today Jaunty LIve and there is no tracker installed
[14:49] <eMaX> anyone: libcanberra-gtk-module.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
[14:52] <Unggnu> Does anybody have problems with VLC and the OpenGL output? It looks very grainy/bad deinterlaced with FGLRX and -intel
[14:56] <cyberix> In Intrepid I was able to set my window manager by setting WINDOW_MANAGER environment variable, but in Jaunty this does not seem to work anymore.
[14:57] <cyberix> What am I supposed to do instead?
[15:00] <LordKow> cyberix, try using update-alternatives. ie "update-alternatives --list x-session-manager"
[15:00] <tgpraveen> does jaunty have facility of converting a wubi partition to a real one
[15:00] <cyberix> actually I might be wrong
[15:00] <hmw> anyone else cannot kill x with ctrl-alt-backspace? was like this since i installed jaunty yesterday
[15:01] <LordKow> hmw, it was intentionally disabled. you can re-enable it
[15:01] <hmw> lord: where?
[15:02] <LordKow> install dontzap
[15:02] <peppot> adam7, hi again. to use ati, is a Driver "ati" required, or does dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg suffice?
[15:02] <hmw> dontzap? lol
[15:02] <hmw> thx
[15:02] <LordKow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgCtrlAltBackspace
[15:03] <adam7> peppot: what I did was rm my /etc/X11/xorg.conf and let X choose for me. Then you don't have to mess with all the configuring
[15:04] <peppot> adam7, aye
[15:04] <LordKow> i wouldn't recommend deleting xorg.conf entirely. the default one doesn't set anything to begin with
[15:05] <LordKow> alright time to test if dontzap is working.... brb
[15:06] <peppot> adam7, equally sluggish performance with "radeon"
[15:06] <peppot> (2d)
[15:07] <peppot> in fact, I feel it's worse. SIGH.
[15:08] <peppot> it's using "radeon" now, I wonder if I'm supposed to use "ati"?
[15:08] <LordKow> oh yea it works
[15:08] <adam7> peppot: ati activates the appropriate driver iirc
[15:10] <peppot> well, I'll go back to fglrx I think
[15:22] <tuxxy__> hey I want to delete intrepid now but still one issue stopping me that is compiz doesnt auto start at boot, I have to enter compiz --replace everytime does anyone have a fix?
[15:27] <hmw> tuxxy__ not a real solution to the issue you have, but putting the command to the autostart programs should load compiz.
[15:28] <god-mok> tuxxy__: "sudo compiz --replace" don't do it?
[15:29] <tuxxy__> hmw: I have compiz in my sessions already but it doesnt load I have to manually ALT +F2 compiz --replace
[15:29] <tuxxy__> god-mok: compiz --replace works just that its a little tedious having to enter it at every boot
[15:30] <hmw> tuxxy__ try using fusion-icon once to switch to metacity and back to compiz. might repair the thing
[15:30] <god-mok> tuxxy__: if you activate the desktop effects it should automaticaly start
[15:31] <tuxxy__> hmw: I tried switching to metacity and back but no luck
[15:31] <hmw> with fusion-icon?
[15:31] <tuxxy__> god-mok: yes they should be they dont, I have to manually start the effects or run compiz --replace every time
[15:31] <hmw> (it seems to do more than --replace)
[15:33] <hmw> aptget it
[15:34] <tuxxy__> ok ill test it now
[15:37] <hmw> pamusb working again. pfew.
[15:38] <tuxxy__> no luck guys
[15:38] <hmw> tuxxy__ at least you could use that icon (autostart) to switch more conveniently.
[15:39] <tuxxy__> ye I guess, wish I knew the cause though
[15:39] <hmw> i have the impression, that compiz is started, but crashes. maybe it needs to run just a second time, or it is too early for it to succeed. Did you see anything in the logs?
[15:42] <tuxxy__> only this
[15:42] <tuxxy__> jaunty compiz.real: *** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/compiz.real: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0000000000dcf7a0 ***
[15:47] <hmw> tuxxy__ what video card do you have, what driver is in use?
[15:47] <tuxxy__> another issue I ahve is that when I activate compiz it wont load my profile like normal either I have to renable say cube and rotate cube if I want the cube
[15:47] <hmw> btw: double free means, it tried to free the same memory twice
[15:49] <hmw> tuxxy__ did it ever work normally before in jaunty?
[15:49] <tuxxy__> Card: 		nVidia Geforce 9500GT
[15:49] <tuxxy__> driver 1.80
[15:49] <tuxxy__> no it has never auto started like it should
[15:50] <hmw> do the settings get lost, when you switch around with the icon?
[15:51] <tuxxy__> well yes if i enabled certain ones they would get lost
[15:51] <tuxxy__> only ones that stay are like bendy windows
[15:53] <hmw> hmm...
[15:55] <tuxxy__> ye its unusual another issue I noticed is when I activate it bendy windows work but desktop wall doesnt even though its activated in the CCSM
[15:56] <tuxxy__> do you use compiz and nvidia?
[15:56] <hmw> i was about to ask... i suppose, the cube is also still "activated" in ccsm, while it isnt working?
[15:56] <tuxxy__> no the cube isnt activated by default I have to do it manually in CCSM but that works fine
[15:56] <hmw> so it gets really deselected, huh?
[15:57] <hmw> you might be lucky with a reinstall of compiz and all related stuff.
[15:57] <tuxxy__> well not sure deselected as this isnt my personal profile its just the basic settings which I think come with desktop wall enabled by deafuklt not cube
[15:58] <tuxxy__> is your compiz working fine
[15:58] <hmw> yes
[15:58] <tuxxy__> damn nvidia?
[15:58] <hmw> this doesnt sound much like a driver issue to me
[15:58] <tuxxy__> I didnt either as all the effects run fine
[15:59] <tuxxy__> infact better tahn on intrepid with 177 driver
[15:59] <tuxxy__> heh
[15:59] <hmw> the fact, that you loose the settings, when switching to metacity and back using the icon puzzles me
[15:59] <hmw> like ccsm wouldnt be able to save its settings to the file or someething alike
[16:00] <hmw> logged in as normal user?
[16:00] <tuxxy__> ok I just retried it and it seems to have saved the cube this time!
[16:01] <tuxxy__> but not very confident it will auto start
[16:01] <hmw> turning compiz off using system/preferences/appearance resets compiz, thats ok
[16:03] <hmw> does it make a difference, when you dont reboot fully, but just log out and in again?
[16:06] <tuxxy__> ok ill try
[16:07] <tuxxy__> so you I should fisable effects then renable and logout and in
[16:07] <hmw> i am curious, if compiz autostarts after a simple relogin.
[16:08] <hmw> so log out with compiz active
[16:11] <tuxxy__> ok brb
[16:17] <tuxxy__> hmw: ok I logged out and lost all effects, I tried adding fusion-icon to sessions and rebooted once more but again lost all effects and compiz doesnt load
[16:17] <tuxxy__> even though fusion-icon is set to compiz and emerald
[16:18] <hmw> autostarting fusion-icon wouldnt help, it would only show the icon automatically...
[16:19] <tuxxy__> ok
[16:19] <hmw> i fear, you have to wait for some updates. if you have nothing else to do, you can try reinstalling the whole compiz stuff. someone with a similar proplem posted, that he could repair it (suse)
[16:19] <hmw> ...by removing and reinstalling
[16:20] <tuxxy__> ok removing now
[16:28] <tuxxy__> hmw: I reinstalled and now my effects are all being saved but unfortunately it still doesnt autoload
[16:29] <tuxxy__> I suppose I can live with doin an ALT +F2 every boot  and wait for updates, hey atleast my effects are saved :)
[16:30] <hmw> what, if you wrote a script, containing a sleep and then loading compiz, and putting the script into the autostart apps?
[16:31] <hmw> or going even further, letting the script unsuccesfully load it a first time, then sleep and trying a second time...
[16:32] <tuxxy__> heh ye good idea so the issue is definitely compiz not being able to activate at the stage its attempting to
[16:33] <tuxxy__> so I guess it could be a driver issue...for instance the driver not functioning correctly at first so compiz unable to load
[16:34] <tuxxy__> are you using nvidia?
[16:34] <hmw> ati
[16:34] <tuxxy__> maybe its nvidia issue
[16:53] <bromic94> When I install 9.04 alpha through wubi after i uninstall 8.04lts, i get an error occured, incomplete format, for more information please see this log file. the contents of that log file are http://pastebin.com/m26150c71
[16:53] <bromic94> i dont think 8.04 got uninstall properly
[16:54]  * maco is not surprised to hear about a wubi screwup
[16:56] <bromic94> maco: how can i fix it
[16:56] <maco> no idea
[16:56] <bromic94> damn it
[16:57] <maco> all i know is i hear about wubi doing stuff like that too often for me to ever use it
[16:57] <bromic94> oh ok
[16:57] <bromic94> well i cant truely boot since ihave windows vista alraedy on my system
[16:58] <bromic94> can i?
[16:59] <maco> er what do you mean? vista should still boot
[16:59] <EvilRoey> hello
[17:00] <EvilRoey> question about LTS releases:
[17:00] <bromic94> can i safely repartition my drive
[17:00] <bromic94> with vista running on it
[17:00] <Halow> You should still be able to install it by booting the LiveCD.
[17:00] <EvilRoey> so a Server and a Desktop release share the same repositories.  So what does it mean when the Deskop gets EOL'd?  Do security updates come out only for the Server components and not for the Desktop ones (say, GNOME)?
[17:00] <Halow> I used to dual boot Vista/Ubuntu for a while.
[17:01] <bromic94> Halow: so just boot into the live CD and choose install
[17:01] <bromic94> waht happens to my vista then
[17:02] <Halow> bromic94, Nothing. It will help you repartition the drive so you can have both, and install Grub, which will help you choose which you want when you start up.
[17:02] <bromic94> ok
[17:02] <bromic94> right now since of wuni messign up it asks me to boot into one or hte other
[17:03] <bromic94> bc i think it got uninstalled incompletely
[17:03] <bromic94> how do i got in the windows boot loader and edit it?
[17:04] <god-mok> bromic94: under vista: run msconfig, look for the boot section, and edit it
[17:04] <bromic94> nothing is there
[17:04] <bromic94> other than windows vista
[17:05] <god-mok> bromic94: you deinstalled ubuntu from the software section of windows?
[17:06] <god-mok> uninstalled
[17:06] <bromic94> es
[17:06] <bromic94> brb
[17:06] <bromic94> lets see if this wants to work
[17:06] <bromic94> i reinstalled the same version of ubuntu taht was uninstalled
[17:06] <bromic94> and it did not through any errors
[17:06] <bromic94> so ill be back here shorly
[17:15] <tuxxy__> any got the link to new wallpapers
[17:40] <billybigrigger> tuxxy__, check the wiki for incoming art
[17:41] <billybigrigger> tuxxy__, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty
[17:44] <thopiekar> is there a way to change the size of the letters? mine are too small..
[17:44] <billybigrigger> letters in what?
[17:44] <billybigrigger> for a certain program or the whole OS?
[17:45] <nemo> thopiekar: there was a dude on here earlier who said jaunty was transitioning to px based units
[17:45] <nemo> he was wanting me to change my 8pt default font to 10.6666px or something
[17:45] <nemo> which I didn't feel like doing
[17:45] <billybigrigger> well you can change the font or the dpi
[17:45] <nemo> System->Preferences->Appearance->Fonts
[17:46] <thopiekar> aahh so is it normal?
[17:46] <billybigrigger> smaller dpi is what you want i think
[17:46] <nemo> apparently some apps are still buggy
[17:46] <nemo> or something
[17:46] <thopiekar> hmm but the close button is atm buggy..
[17:47] <thopiekar> it's not looking like to be one with the style..
[17:48] <thopiekar> and if you have choosen to make the panel black -colored the wallpaper has to be darker, too..
[17:48] <thopiekar> it would look better for sure..
[17:49] <ribo> someone in here a few days ago was talking about a pretty new bootsplash replacement by fedora, anyone know the name?
[17:50] <ribo> plymouth, that's it
[17:51] <thopiekar> aahh and before i foerget it.. the font-size of the terminal in synaptic should be definitly bigegr than ca. 5 px..
[17:52] <thopiekar> but anyway nice work nemo :)
[17:52] <thopiekar> and a great libnotifiy replacement..
[17:52] <thopiekar> or even mook-up.. :P
[17:55] <o0Chris0o> !enter | thopiekar
[17:56] <thopiekar> k
[17:59] <aLeSD> hi all
[17:59] <aLeSD> is there the people that maintain the linux-rt package ?
[18:11] <aLeSD> hi all
[18:36] <gmiernicki> could someone tell me about "general kernel packages in ubuntu" ...
[18:36] <gmiernicki> if 2.6.28 goes into jaunty
[18:36] <gmiernicki> does that mean we must wait for 9.10 for the next version, ie. 2.6.29 or 2.6.30 ?
[18:37] <gmiernicki> or will jaunty distribute an updated kernel before 9.10 comes out?
[18:38] <Halow> There will likely be kernel updates along the way between 9.04 and 9.10.
[18:39] <gmiernicki> its been my experience so far "on my ubuntu train ride" that they are usually something like
[18:39] <gmiernicki> 2.6.27-3 -> 2.6.26-9
[18:39] <gmiernicki> not 2.6.27 to 2.6.28
[18:40] <gmiernicki> which leads me to believe we gotta wait for 9.10 for the new 2.6.29 kernel
[18:40] <gmiernicki> plz correct me if im wrong tho
[18:41] <gmiernicki> er
[18:41] <gmiernicki> 2.6.27-3 -> 2.6.27-9
[18:41] <gmiernicki> :D
[18:42] <void^> .28, all the way.
[18:42] <gmiernicki> i figured as much :\
[18:43] <gmiernicki> 2.6.29 seems to be getting a lot more work on the linux-rt front
[18:43] <gmiernicki> why i was hoping to see a kernel based on that sooner
[18:43] <daftykins> what was it that patches are about for, that ubuntu are going to pu... that's it, ubuntu will apply EXT4 patches for some problems ahead of the official Linux kernel merge
[18:43] <daftykins> 2.6.28/29 instead of .30
[18:44] <gmiernicki> good to know daftykins
[18:44] <void^> it's better to stick to a fixed .28 than throw in a fresh and buggy .29
[18:44] <gmiernicki> i also noticed ubuntu devs were working hard on the linux-rt package for jaunty
[18:45] <gmiernicki> hope they get some of that work in there on that methodology ;)
[18:51] <SwedeMike> gmiernicki: it has been decided that januty will get 2.6.28 yes. I also saw an announcement that they'll start to offer vanilla kernel.org kernels as well, so there you might see 2.6.29 and later
[18:51] <gmiernicki> thats interesting
[18:53] <gmiernicki> sounds like a good answer tho those who wanna bleed on the edge
[18:53] <gmiernicki> which im sure there are a lot of in this chan ;D
[18:53] <SwedeMike> but I have historically had little problems getting vanilla kernel.org kernels to work in debian/ubuntu, you won't get apparmour and such, but generally they work
[18:53] <Halow> LOL A few. ;)
[18:54] <gmiernicki> SwedeMike: ive had pretty good success with vanilla kernels on gentoo
[18:54] <gmiernicki> building kernels from source
[18:54] <gmiernicki> i wonder if ubuntu will come up with something to tweak/compile kernels for the average user
[18:55] <SwedeMike> that's what the announced kernel.org packages will do
[18:55] <void^> the average user really doesn't need or even want that :/
[18:56] <gmiernicki> if gaming ever takes off under linux, i bet they will void ;)
[18:57] <gmiernicki> this is really impressive actually
[18:57] <gmiernicki> means we can get the newest drivers ahead of a +1 release
[19:39] <mindframe-> when is this ship goin beta?
[19:39] <c_korn> can someone confirm bug 346554 ?
[19:41] <crdlb> c_korn: are you up to date? there should have been a pidgin update with a (horrible) workaround
[19:42] <c_korn> crdlb: yes, I am up to date
[19:42] <crdlb> and you've restarted pidgin?
[19:42] <c_korn> yes
[19:43] <Ampelbein> c_korn: i tried several times, can't replicate
[19:43] <zniavre> hello
[19:43] <c_korn> Ampelbein: also using opera as in the video?
[19:43] <Ampelbein> c_korn: tried opera and firefox
[19:43] <zniavre> still get >No Indicators> with pidgin running
[19:47] <Ampelbein> c_korn: i use opera-static, do you use the dynamically linked version?
[19:48] <c_korn> Ampelbein: it is static I think. but I can also reproduce this with firefox
[19:49] <Ampelbein> c_korn: just for verification: you have pidgin 2.5.5-1ubuntu2 installed?
[19:49] <c_korn> Ampelbein: exactly
[19:51] <Ampelbein> c_korn: bug #341142 should have been fixed by the added patch.
[19:54] <c_korn> Ampelbein: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/346554/comments/2
[19:56] <Ampelbein> c_korn: i assigned the bug to ted, the writer of the patch. Perhaps he can ask for more information.
[20:00] <torkiano> hello all
[20:00] <torkiano> wow, how many people ;-)
[20:00] <dan-ubuntu> hey :)
[20:00] <torkiano> jaunty will rock!
[20:00] <dan-ubuntu> yup
[20:02] <c_korn> Ampelbein: thanks, but this is odd. pidgin shows in the foreground when I open pidgin from terminal
[20:03] <dan-ubuntu> is anyone here having problems with distortion if not in 6ch channel mode?
[20:03] <dan-ubuntu> i only have stereo, but it is distorted in 2ch
[20:12] <Teisei> Hi ! Why does Ubuntu play only the first few seconds of a DVD?
[20:12] <Teisei> Anybody else having the same problem?
[20:12] <Teisei> The player is Kaffeine
[20:13] <Teisei> On other players (Totem, VLC, Realplayer) DVD's won't play at all
[20:13] <dan-ubuntu> do you have the ubuntu restricted package?
[20:13] <torkiano> Teisei, and DragonPlayer?
[20:13] <dan-ubuntu> +installed
[20:14] <Teisei> torkiano, haven't tried that one
[20:14] <torkiano> Teisei, is the kde default, maybe it works
[20:15] <Teisei> torkiano, ok thanks I'll try that out
[20:22] <god-mok_> great, all day looking out why my files get corrupted after reinstall, and it seems it is the dist-upgrade from 2.6.28-9 to 2.6.28-11. i won't have the newest kernel :'(
[20:22] <dan457> Everything more or less works for me, but if I hold down a key for 2+ sec X restarts... lol.
[20:23] <god-mok_> dan457: lol, as long as your fast :D
[20:23] <DaemonFC> I'm greased lightning B-)
[20:24] <charlie-tca> my video is corrupting :-)
[20:24] <dan457> Mind you I am using a duel head nvidia setup with Xinerama
[20:24] <dan457> my other nvidia box without xinerama is fine.
[20:24] <DaemonFC> faster than a rabid penguin, more powerful than SysVInit, it's Kernel Man
[20:24] <DaemonFC> xinerama on Nvidia eats babies
[20:24] <DaemonFC> that's the technical explanation
[20:24] <dan457> lol.
[20:24] <god-mok_> lol
[20:25] <dan457> well, the ati driver is even worse atm, so the onboard video sucks.
[20:25] <dan457> prob doesn't do duel monitors anyway
[20:25] <DaemonFC> I seem to have made my kernel angry by not adding .conf to the end of the blacklist file name
[20:26] <DaemonFC> it says 2.6.30 will remove the ability of the kernel to use blacklists that don't end in .conf :P
[20:26] <god-mok_> without my nvidia driver i have 15 sec. network connection, and then i can cut it down and reconnect...
[20:27] <dan457> nforce board?
[20:27] <DaemonFC> http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6426/screenshot1y.png
[20:27] <DaemonFC> anyone wanna send Comcast hate mail?
[20:28] <dan457> vbox + winxp install to get around that...
[20:28] <DaemonFC> nah, call and scream til they activate it
[20:28] <dan-ubuntu> BLAST THEM WITH NOISE
[20:28] <DaemonFC> then leave a rant on their comments and suggestions that they just paid someone 10 minutes to argue with you
[20:28] <god-mok_> nope, normal graphic card
[20:28] <dan-ubuntu> *cough* what?
[20:28] <DaemonFC> when it should have worked
[20:29] <DaemonFC> that's a serious incentive not to use Ubuntu or any free OS
[20:29] <DaemonFC> when they shove that in your face
[20:29] <DaemonFC> from the viewpoint of a new user
[20:30] <nemo> DaemonFC: I've used comcast for 8 years
[20:30] <nemo> including using linux
[20:30] <nemo> DaemonFC: the problem is tier 1 support is clueless
[20:30] <DaemonFC> they suck, Linux could easily just work
[20:30] <nemo> a little persistence on the phone gets you to a tier that can figure out how to activate your modem
[20:30] <DaemonFC> they want to make sure Windows and Mac users can't get by without installing their spyware
[20:30] <nemo> DaemonFC: linux *can* "just work"  -  they just need to provide a registration mechanism
[20:30] <nemo> the installation of software is not required. I've moved 4 times and never once used it
[20:31] <nemo> DaemonFC: the software is just to simplify things for their clueless support staff
[20:31] <DaemonFC> I never have either, but that screen is just offensive and not needed
[20:31] <DaemonFC> you should plug it in and rock and roll
[20:31] <nemo> well. that is true.
[20:31] <DaemonFC> that's how they used to be
[20:31] <dan457> at my sisters I had to log onto her modem and manualy put in her username/password.  then she was up and running... in her case she had windows but IE was bugged, and since no internet. no way to grab firefox.. lol
[20:31] <nemo> DaemonFC: well. the restricting modems that are on their network does help avoid "sharing"
[20:32] <nemo> DaemonFC: but. the procedure should include an online option.
[20:32] <nemo> where you can deregister one modem, and add another.
[20:32]  * dan457 agree's with nemo
[20:32] <nemo> DaemonFC: oh well. as sucky as comcast is, they are way ahead of verizon fios in my book
[20:32] <DaemonFC> exactly, AT&T lets you do it on the modem itself
[20:32] <DaemonFC> that's OS independent
[20:32] <DaemonFC> and the right thing to do
[20:32] <nemo> I was on FiOS for one day before cancelling their bastardly product
[20:33] <dan457> I'm on fios now.  works ok here.
[20:33] <nemo> and then they spent the next 2 months screwing around with my cancellation
[20:33] <nemo> dan457: they don't block ports in your area?
[20:33] <dan457> Depends on what router they give you.
[20:33] <nemo> I asked them, repeatedly, do you block ports
[20:33] <DaemonFC> I live in the styx, it's Comcast or Ma Bell
[20:33] <nemo> oh no say the sales reps
[20:33] <nemo> liars
[20:33] <dan457> they block ports 25 and 80 here. but I can work around that.
[20:33] <DaemonFC> so I have no options really
[20:33] <nemo> dan457: I find that completely unacceptable
[20:33] <crdlb> of course they block ports ...
[20:33] <nemo> and it is incredibly inconvenient on vacation
[20:33] <nemo> crdlb: comcast does not.
[20:33] <dan457> I use https for my personal stuff anyway.
[20:34] <dan457> and I don't need a local mail server.
[20:34] <nemo> dan457: I tested 443 - it was blocked too!!!
[20:34] <nemo> honestly!
[20:34] <dan457> lame, not here.
[20:34] <DaemonFC> Comcast blocks 21, 25, 80, 125, 129, and 8080
[20:34] <nemo> I mean, I'd be fine with moving m8y.org to 443...
[20:34] <DaemonFC> IIRC
[20:34] <nemo> DaemonFC: nope. they block nothing. nada
[20:34] <dan457> if I needed 25, i'd get a business connection.
[20:34] <nemo> DaemonFC: at least in my area
[20:34] <DaemonFC> nemo: I tested that in Windows
[20:34] <DaemonFC> dropped my firewall and portscanned myself
[20:34] <nemo> DaemonFC: whatever. I have a bunch of ports open. lets see.
[20:34] <nemo> you're probably doing it wrong :-p
[20:35] <DaemonFC> nope, it listed them as "Stealth" and I had nothing blocking anything
[20:35] <DaemonFC> so it was done by the ISP, definitely
[20:35] <crdlb> well, I like my reliable 20/5, so ...
[20:36] <nemo> I use 22, 25, 53, 80, 443, 993 and a lot more
[20:36] <nemo> higher ones
[20:36] <nemo> and I find the idea of ISPs trying to control this (apart from the business thing, which I'm fine with) incredibly offensive
[20:36] <nemo> besides, I only pay $50/mo for Comcast
[20:36] <nemo> Verizon FiOS was a lot more expensive
[20:37] <dan457> only low ports I use are 21, 22, 143
[20:37] <dan457> those are all unblocked.
[20:37] <nemo> anyway, Verizon made me fight for 2 months of apologising reps before they finally closed down my account
[20:37] <crdlb> yes, verizon's CSRs are terrible
[20:37] <dan457> verizon billing is a pain.
[20:37] <DaemonFC> Comcst hobbles service like this so you pay more to get them to uncripple it
[20:37] <DaemonFC> they are not the only ones
[20:37] <nemo> and. after that. they'd put a black mark on my credit with all 3 ratings agencies that I then had to challenge with both verizon and them
[20:38] <dan457> fortunatly, it's my next door niebors connection... we just have the houses linked.. hehe.
[20:38] <dan457> I just drop him $20 a month an let him deal with verizon.
[20:38] <nemo> so. yeah. I despise Verizon. as annoying as Comcast is, they don't get in your face if you're just trying to run a few linux services
[20:38] <nemo> I hate this stratification of web into "consumers"
[20:38] <dan457> he gets the billing problems.
[20:39] <dan457> If it didn't cost 650 a month, i'd get my own T1.
[20:39] <dan457> Might have to start a hosting company to pay for that crap though.
[20:42] <dan457> now to figure out how to diable keyboard repeating.. maybe that will fix my X restarting issue.
[20:42] <dan457> oh, that was easy... now to see if it worked...
[20:43] <dan457> Yup, no restarting.
[20:48] <DaemonFC> well, there's an economy, and Ubuntu does not exist to not make money
[20:48] <DaemonFC> as long as they don't hit me up, I'm good
[20:49] <DanaG> Odd, my Charter doesn't block 22.
[20:49] <DanaG> I haven't tried 25 or such, though.
[20:50] <crdlb> I don't think blocking 22 is common
[20:50] <DanaG> ah.
[20:51] <DanaG> Oh hey, any of you know of a replacement for the (abandoned) gnump3d?
[20:51] <DanaG> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnump3d/
[20:51] <DanaG> One way to bypass port blocking: use an ipv6 relay.
[20:55] <DaemonFC> Can anyone tell me if the XFS patches for 2.6.29 are being backported to Jaunty's kernel?
[20:55] <DaemonFC> looks like theres just a handful, some don't even apply to 2.6.28, but a couple would be nice, even if just for correctness
[20:57] <DaemonFC> Allow inode64 mount option on 32 bit system, Support the fiemap ioctl, Combine the XFS and Linux inodes are the (small) new features
[20:58] <mindframe-> DaemonFC, what were the XFS patches for?
[20:59] <DaemonFC> just making XFS more consistent with standard Linux behavior
[21:00] <DaemonFC> it's not an on-disk change, just changes how it uses the facilities
[21:02] <DaemonFC> there are still some interesting changes in the pipeline for XFS, nothing radical or ZFs/BtrFS killer
[21:02] <DaemonFC> but nice stuff
[21:56] <DaemonFC> hmmm, there's a one click crap remover in Jaunty
[21:56] <DaemonFC> nice
[21:57] <yeager> is evolution borked or is it just me?
[21:58] <DaemonFC> just you
[22:34] <DanaG>  /usr/bin/../lib32/wine/winealsa.drv.so: symbol snd_pcm_hw_params_get_tick_time_max, version ALSA_0.9.0rc4 not defined in file libasound.so.2 with link time reference
[22:34] <DanaG> ARGH! Wine doesn't offer ALSA at ALL!
[22:52] <orbisvicis> im looking if there is a specific backport to a jaunty package ... in the changelog it says "merge from debian unstable" ... how do I find out what backports debian unstable applied ?
[22:57] <maxb> orbisvicis: what do you mean, exactly?
[23:26] <DaemonFC> hmmm, if Epiphany would fix just one bug it'd be perfect
[23:27] <DaemonFC> *sigh*
[23:27] <crdlb> which one?
[23:28] <mase_work> DaemonFC: have you tried having a go at it your self? often just supplying a patch, even if its not fantastic is enough to get someone to look at it
[23:28] <DaemonFC> links that specify a new window get a new window
[23:28] <DaemonFC> whereas the reason for tabs is to avoid new windows
[23:29] <crdlb> DaemonFC: gtkmozembed limitation
[23:29] <DaemonFC> I'm not a programmer, and even if I was, that's a prefs.js feature that Epiphany ignores
[23:29] <crdlb> my ephy with webkit has that feature now (though it's a bit buggy and incomplete)
[23:29] <DaemonFC> B-)
[23:29] <crdlb> the vast majority of ephy problems are gecko's fault
[23:30] <crdlb> which is why they're abandoning it
[23:30] <DaemonFC> I would not doubt it
[23:30] <DaemonFC> well, gimme the Webkit version with Adblock and yeah :)
[23:30] <DaemonFC> but that's been forever in the making
[23:45] <DaemonFC> 2.6.29 final is out
[23:46] <mase_work> nice
[23:47] <Votan> ello guys, got a Question, Eevryitme I boot my Netbook with 9.04 A6 I get the message that it couldnt load the Package Source List and that I have to run it manually. Now it does work withotu a problem, but how the heck do I disable that message on boot ?
[23:49] <mifritscher> hi
[23:49] <mifritscher> will 9.04 include 2.6.29 and the intel xorg driver 2.7.x ?
[23:50] <IntuitiveNipple> mifritscher: no, 9.04 is 2.6.28
[23:51] <mifritscher> btw, I've found an interesteing dependency
[23:51] <mifritscher> I've a x61 with a 965 and 4 GB Ram, running the 32 bit version of 9.04
[23:51] <mhjacks> What would cause a VNC session to not be able to access org.gnome.SessionManager?
[23:52] <mifritscher> the UXA accleration works only with the -generic flavour of the kernel, the EXA only with the -server flavour^^
[23:52] <crdlb> mhjacks: an empty vnc session or one of an existing gnome desktop?
[23:53] <mifritscher> btw, the uxa-driver needs much cpu-power if idle (+causing a lot of interrupt rescheduling)
[23:54] <mase_work> mifritscher: yeh i have noticed that too. i guess they will hammer out the bugs later.
[23:55] <mase_work> i am hoping it won't be so slow when its released. i have quite significant performance issues with it and 2d operations
[23:55]  * mifritscher wonder about killing bugs with a hammer :-)
[23:55] <mifritscher> sorry, I couldn't stop me ;-)
[23:56] <IntuitiveNipple> UXA uses GEM, -server uses PAE, the PC has 4GB... that might explain part of it :)
[23:56] <mifritscher> yes
[23:56] <mhjacks> crdlb: One started from within an existing X session
[23:56] <mifritscher> but the interesting thing is: why does exa require PAE?^^
[23:57] <mifritscher> I would expect that it would crash on PAE-kernels...
[23:57] <crdlb> mhjacks: using vino?
[23:57] <mhjacks> When I try to start from rc.local it hangs at that point...no, using tightvnc
[23:57] <IntuitiveNipple> sorry, typed my acronyms wrong way around :)
[23:57] <mhjacks> Same results with vnc4server
[23:57] <crdlb> mhjacks: then now is it an existing session?
[23:57] <mhjacks> Different messages, same symptom
[23:57] <mhjacks> It would be a new session
[23:58] <mhjacks> What I'm trying to do is start a VNC session in addition to the GDM session
[23:58] <crdlb> if you create a "blank" vnc display, then there will be no session manager
[23:59] <crdlb> nor a dbus session bus if you don't start it, for that matter
[23:59] <mhjacks> I've got gnome-session in my xstartup that vnc calls
[23:59] <IntuitiveNipple> -generic will only be able to address 3GB of RAM. However, that will likely prevent the video adaptor's PCI IO/MEM range (256MB?) being mapped below 4GB due to the current IO/MEM strategy. With -server there's PAE so addressing can go above 4GB boundary (which is possibly where the video adaptor has mapped the BAR)
[23:59] <mhjacks> It used to work in Intrepid