[14:46] <julian> thorwil: i'd go with a three-quarter view as opposed to a front-on view, just to match the laptop and netbook views
[15:46] <thorwil> hi julian, newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Final,%20with%20slideshow
[15:46] <thorwil> can this go online tomorrow?
[15:50] <newz2000> hi knome, rime, do you guys have a few min to update http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/ with the new images? (see the link above)
[15:50] <newz2000> it would probably help julian to see the final product
[15:51] <newz2000> thorwil: I think we need to get a few eyes looking at the banner to ensure the timing is right. Otherwise, when julian is ready so am I.
[15:52] <thorwil> newz2000: ok, cool
[15:53] <newz2000> knome, rime: actually, never mind, I'll just re-publish it with the new images
[16:00] <newz2000> julian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html
[16:00] <newz2000> others: what do you think of the timing there? Could it be quicker?
[16:01] <thorwil> newz2000: not by much
[16:02] <thorwil> newz2000: we, who we know the images quite well beforehand, have to counteract the tendency to make it too fast
[16:02] <newz2000> yeah, my thoughts exactly
[16:03] <newz2000> I kind of wish the transition period was a bit quicker. I wonder if I grabbed the most recent code.
[16:08] <newz2000> there, that's a bit faster
[16:08] <newz2000> try this, is it smooth still for you all: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html
[16:08] <thorwil> yes
[16:11] <jpds> Nice.
[16:18] <newz2000> thorwil: I looked into the wordpress.com thing... I really can't believe they don't allow iframes. The cross-domain protection built int browsers should prevent them from anything malicious.
[16:18] <newz2000> fascists.
[16:18] <thorwil> *shrug*
[16:19] <thorwil> my wordpress blog doesn't cost a thing, not with 80 hits a day, not with 21000 :)
[16:20] <thorwil> newz2000: i thought the solution was an image link to a php script?
[16:20] <newz2000> I guess so, but I've got some hesitancy. I will talk to the sysadmins to see what they say.
[16:31] <newz2000> thorwil: kat likes it! :-)
[16:32] <thorwil> cool :)
[16:59] <knome> newz2000, tbh, i think the carousel is a bit too quick.
[17:00] <newz2000> knome: can you be more specific? Does it start too quickly (i.e. you miss the first frame) or is everything too quick?
[17:00] <knome> newz2000, everything is too quick
[17:01] <knome> newz2000, the transition speed is ok, but the slides are shown too little time
[17:01] <newz2000> knome: are you a native english speaker/reader?
[17:01] <knome> newz2000, nope.
[17:01] <newz2000> ok, that's good feedback
[17:01] <knome> newz2000, why do you ask? :)
[17:02] <knome> newz2000, right.
[17:02] <knome> newz2000, let me explain a bit further:
[17:03] <knome> newz2000, imagine this scenario: a user enters a site with that countdown banner. the banner might not be in the best place or the viewer misses the first slide accidentally. he might not even notice the second frame or the third, because the slides go froward so quickly. that leads him to the need to refresh the page to see the banner.
[17:03] <knome> newz2000, so maybe the first slide could be shown a bit more also
[17:04] <knome> newz2000, but adjusting your eyes to that kind (and size) of banner is really hard, especially if you didn't expect it and if it's not your native language
[17:04] <newz2000> I think we should:
[17:04] <newz2000> a: increase duration of first slide
[17:05] <newz2000> b: count on people not seeing the banner until the animation starts (meaning they'll miss the first slide anyway)
[17:05] <newz2000> so that implies
[17:05] <knome> right, so what about adding one slide to the beginning
[17:05] <newz2000> c: if the banner is content that we want people to see fully, give them a way to replay it
[17:06] <knome> with animated gif of something that flashes black to the background and to the first slide
[17:06] <knome> let me be more clear :)
[17:06] <newz2000> the reason I put the countdown last was because it's the key slide, if they miss the rest but see the last slide is that enough? my inclination is "yes"
[17:06] <knome> 1) black 2) background 3) transition to the first slide
[17:06] <julian> thorwil, newz2000 hi guys
[17:06] <newz2000> hi julian
[17:07] <thorwil> hi julian
[17:07] <knome> newz2000, i see. but it's somewhat the waste of thorwils great graphics to expect most of the people missing those frames
[17:07] <knome> newz2000, my question in this case is: why do we bother doing a carousel if we don't mind people to see those first frames?
[17:08] <newz2000> well, its not a waste, because I think more people will see the last slide because of the animation and graphics preceding it
[17:08] <thorwil> there doesn't happen to be a become-visible event that would be triggered if the banner is scrolled up from below the page fold?
[17:08]  * newz2000 is thinking out loud, not convinced one way or another yet
[17:08] <newz2000> thorwil: not that i know of
[17:08] <julian> guys - i just have a couple of comments for you...
[17:09] <julian> the timing is pretty quick - i'd be tempted to increase hold on each item by 3/4-1 second...
[17:10] <julian> we know what it's saying. i think new users will want longer to digest what we're saying
[17:10] <julian> also...
[17:10] <julian> we need to change the perspective of the desktop. its currently square on, whereas the laptop/netbooks are corner on
[17:11] <julian> and finally...
[17:11] <julian> the net book looks really small to the point it looks lost. we need it to be bigger which may mean that the laptop has to go bigger to keep the differentiation
[17:12] <julian> other than that - the whito branding looks great and the concept looks great :-)
[17:12] <knome> imho the desktop monitor should be way bigger.
[17:13] <newz2000> julian: how do you feel about the concept that the first slide (or first few) could get missed until the animation catches the eye?
[17:13] <knome> newz2000, thorwil, julian: do you think we could replay the carousel if user clicks on the last slide?
[17:14] <thorwil> julian: the desktop is straight on precisely because the next 2 are corner on. what orientation/rotation would you suggest?
[17:14] <knome> would that be a solution for missing slides
[17:14] <newz2000> knome: no, there should be a destination url
[17:14] <knome> right
[17:14] <thorwil> knome: a click should lead to ubuntu.com, no?
[17:14] <knome> right... didn't remember that.
[17:14] <julian> thorwil, corner on so it matches the next 2
[17:15] <julian> newz2000, not sure what you mean...
[17:15] <newz2000> there seems to be a diff perspective for all the slides, servers and cloud included
[17:15] <knome> i think it's great now.
[17:15] <newz2000> julian: on a busy page where someone is not there to see the banner they may not even notice it until it starts to move and therefore miss one or more slides
[17:16] <julian> newz2000, ahh, i see... but it lops doesnt  it...?
[17:16] <thorwil> newz2000: could be on repeat, with a rather long hold out on the countdown
[17:16] <knome> julian, it's not looping.
[17:16] <newz2000> I don't think it's wise to loop indefinitely, but it could repeat once
[17:16] <newz2000> I'm personally very annoyed when trying to read a page and animations go constantly
[17:17] <knome> i think what thorwil suggests is ok, if the countdown to new repeat is long enough.
[17:17] <knome> maybe we could increase the time to next repeat every time it's looped once?
[17:17] <julian> can there be a time delay between loops ie it plays, remains on last frame for 30s then starts again?
[17:17] <knome> julian, sure.
[17:18] <knome> but i agree with newz2000 on ever-looping animation.
[17:18] <newz2000> julian: I think it's very distracting, 30s delay maybe more so. I'd value mpt's opinion on this.
[17:18] <knome> making it wait longer after 2 loops would maybe be a solution.
[17:21] <julian> newz2000, i'll ask mpt now...
[17:21]  * thorwil switches to fullscreen blender
[17:23] <julian> thorwil, what do you think about changing the desktop to corner on...?
[17:25] <thorwil> julian: i'm ok with it. will use the orientation of the netbbook, to have a \ / \ movement, i think
[17:27] <newz2000> julian: updated the timings as you suggested. +1s to first slide, +0.7s to each subsequent slide.
[17:28] <newz2000> little over 13s for full animation
[17:33] <julian> thorwil, newz2000 great...!
[17:33] <julian> feedback from mpt is...
[17:34] <julian> looping with a delay is fine as people going to ubuntu.com are going for a reason - its not like surfing to a holiday booking site and being annoyed by banners that are not relevant to me
[17:34] <julian> also...
[17:34] <julian> as its on the front page, they are unlikely to be there for long as they're on theor way somewhere else and hence its okay...
[17:35] <julian> he alao said the "days to go" text is too small to have in perspective - keep it sguare on...
[17:35] <julian> square
[17:35] <julian> all great points made by the usability master ;-)
[17:36]  * mpt cringes
[17:37] <thorwil> it's not like i didn't consider to keep the "days to go" outside the perspective. kept it this way for better closure
[17:38] <thorwil> should be possible to doctor that without rendering the whole batch. other wise see you again tomorrow ...
[17:38]  * thorwil somehow managed to make the little images take a long time to render
[17:39] <newz2000> mpt, julian: this isn't for the homepage of ubuntu.com, it's for syndication to blogs and sites across the web
[17:39] <mpt> newz2000, for that purpose, I suggest just the final frame, no animation
[17:40] <newz2000> that will be the primary way it's used, this iframe/animation is an experimental alternative
[17:45]  * thorwil -> dinner
[17:46] <julian> newz2000, just so i'm clear, what will be used for ubuntu.com?
[17:46] <newz2000> julian: my intention was thorwil's static countdown banner, but this animation is getting good enough that I'm tempted to use it.
[17:46] <julian> i agree
[17:47] <julian> i think we should use it...
[17:47] <newz2000> these banners will also be syndicated across the web for use on other sites
[17:48] <newz2000> from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown
[17:49] <julian> shouldn't we use 1 banner consistently...?
[17:50] <julian> (or was this just an example from 8.10)...?
[17:50] <knome> julian, the carousel is fallbacking to the last frame anyway if a user doesn't have JS
[17:51] <knome> julian, so i would treat the carousel only as an advanced version of the same banner.
[17:51] <newz2000> julian: the line is blurry. We used two banners last time because of the colour differences. We did two this time because we did two last time. The iframe/animation was just to delve into new territory
[17:51] <newz2000> to see if it was feasible
[17:55] <julian> newz2000, i see
[17:55] <julian> i think his design works as static with the countdown and as an animation...
[17:55] <julian> can only be a good thing for the user
[17:56] <newz2000> so does the syndication aspect affect your opinion about looping?
[18:00] <julian> not really - i'm tempted to say that the banner is trying to do the same thing no matter where it is...
[18:01] <julian> or who's looking at it
[18:02] <newz2000> ok, so loop with a delay then? (something like 30s was mentioned)
[18:03] <julian> yes - but on reflection, maybe a little shorter - 15s
[18:04] <newz2000> ok, will do
[18:04] <julian> cool
[18:04] <julian> newz2000, i have to leave now - send me an email with any other points and i'll see it in the morning...
[18:05] <newz2000> ok, thans julian. I think I'm set.
[18:07] <julian> thanks for your help
[18:21] <thorwil> newz2000: when exactly do you intend to bring this online?
[18:26] <newz2000> thorwil: when it's done, sometime on or before Thursday
[18:30] <thorwil> newz2000: in that case, i will take it easy now and will likely leave most of the changes for tomorrow
[18:30] <newz2000> thorwil: that's fine, thanks for the work
[18:33] <thorwil> you're welcome
[20:31] <mongolito404> Hello world
[20:32] <mongolito404> Does someone work on the javascript for the countdown ?
[20:37] <MadsRH> Do you mean the carousel?
[20:38] <mongolito404> Yes
[20:39] <mongolito404> On the 17th kome mentioned his js-expert will rewrite it as wanted
[20:39] <knome> mongolito404, it's been rewritten
[20:40] <mongolito404> So there is no need for mo to work on it ?
[20:40] <knome> nope.
[20:40] <knome> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html
[20:41] <knome> it's been written to not use mootools, yahoo or google or anything else than its own code
[20:45] <mongolito404> jquery was used for ease, google as CDN for jquery.js and yahoo to provide a client independant timestamp.
[20:46] <mongolito404> But off course, it's fine without all that stuffs. I used for the fun of trying them.
[20:46] <knome> sure. no offense :)
[20:47] <knome> actually, that js does not have any time handling