[00:00] <mhjacks> It's being started from rc.local so that stuff should be up, shouldn't it?
[00:00] <crdlb> mhjacks: can I ask why?
[00:00] <IntuitiveNipple> mifritscher: You can check where the video BAR is using "sudo lspic -vvnn"
[00:00] <mhjacks> Sometimes I log in to the console, sometimes I want to access a semi-permanent X session from elsewhere
[00:00] <mhjacks> Sometimes I do both. :)
[00:00] <crdlb> mhjacks: if you're using rc.local, wouldn't it be running as root?
[00:01] <mhjacks> I su - <my userid> -c "/usr/bin/vncserver :1 -geometry 1280x800"
[00:01] <crdlb> or are you dropping to a user account?
[00:02] <mhjacks> It drops the logs in ~user/.vnc/ so that part seems tobe working
[00:02] <DaemonFC`> it is STILL deleting my kernel source
[00:02] <crdlb> mhjacks: is DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS set?
[00:02] <mhjacks> I don't know.
[00:03] <mhjacks> I can check for that....how would I get it set if it's not?
[00:03] <DaemonFC`> ugggh
[00:04] <DaemonFC`> I hate building kernels
[00:04] <DaemonFC`> I *just* built git6 last night
[00:04] <DaemonFC`> :P
[00:04] <DaemonFC`> then they go and release 2.6.29 final
[00:04] <crdlb> mhjacks: dbus-launch --exit-with-session gnome-session
[00:04] <mifritscher> IntuitiveNipple: hmm, E0000000 -> is in the "reversed" zone, yes (on 32 bit)
[00:05] <mhjacks> Do I do that in lieu of executing gnome-session directly?
[00:05] <IntuitiveNipple> mifritscher: Yes, that's 3.75GB
[00:05] <crdlb> mhjacks: if the aforementioned environment var is not set
[00:05] <mhjacks> I'll bet it's not. :)
[00:05] <mhjacks> Jaunty seems more particular about that than Intrepid used to be
[00:05] <crdlb> ideally, gnome-session should run dbus-launch itself
[00:06] <crdlb> and set the DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS in its own environment
[00:06] <DaemonFC`> ls
[00:06] <DaemonFC`> errr
[00:06] <DaemonFC`> oops
[00:07] <crdlb> otherwise, apps started by dbus don't get GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID ...
[00:07] <mhjacks> Would it be consistent to get "starter X Screen" (i.e. checks with -style X cursor) if it failed?
[00:08] <crdlb> if gnome-session is totally screwing up, maybe
[00:08] <mhjacks> That seems plausible
[00:09] <mhjacks> xrdp starts by doing . /etc/X11/Xsession
[00:09] <mhjacks> That calls the dbus launcher
[00:10] <mhjacks> I've got some extra syslogging in rc.local, I'll try that...
[00:10] <mhjacks> Thanks, crdlb, you've been most helpful. :)
[00:10] <DaemonFC`> ignoring my own rule of don't build kernels while you're tired
[00:10] <DaemonFC`> :P
[00:39] <mhjacks> crdlb: I tried it, and I found I'd accidentally removed myself from some important groups (audio, video etc)
[00:39] <mhjacks> I also saw a group whose purpose I didn't recognize: messagebus
[00:39] <mhjacks> I'm still not getting the session started from rc.local like I want (the DBUS env is not defined before or after I start the session)
[00:40] <mhjacks> but I'm wondering if putting myself in the messagebus group might help
[00:40] <mhjacks> ?
[00:41] <crdlb> did you use dbus-launch this time?
[00:42] <crdlb> you probably want to be in that group though :)
[00:43] <mhjacks> Yes, I did use dbus-launch thouigh the man page seems to suggest that "dbus-launch gnome-session" is the way to go for session scripts
[00:43] <mhjacks> No one is currently in that group though it can't hurt to add myself. :)
[00:44] <mhjacks> OK, on to reboot. Thank god for quad-cores and fast reboot times!
[00:46] <DaemonFC`> still compiling
[00:46] <DaemonFC`> it only has maybe two dozen bugfixes that were not in git6
[00:47] <DaemonFC`> I don't know that I should care except that this is the Linus approved release B-)
[00:52] <mhjacks> This is really starting to piss me off...
[00:52] <mhjacks> I still get the "frozen" x screen from rc.local, whether I'm calling dbus or not
[00:53] <mhjacks> Once I start it from a login session, I'm fine
[00:54] <mhjacks> Adding myself to messagebus didn't make a diference
[01:10] <storrgie> JAUNTYYYY I WANT YOU NOWWW
[01:15] <JanC> storrgie: no problem, just upgrade  ;)
[01:15] <storrgie> i know, i was going to install it on my raid box tonight... but being alpha still i will wait a month
[01:16] <JanC> well, considering that Isaw some devs debugging a RAID issue some hours ago, maybe that's not a bad idea
[01:16] <JanC> OTOH, I have /home on software RAID and no problems...
[01:20] <storrgie> ill give it 1 month
[01:20] <storrgie> besides it will give me something to be excited for
[01:20] <storrgie> i remember doing 8.10 a month early
[01:20] <storrgie> it was bad newsss
[01:37] <xangua> hey anyone there taht can tell me your personal opinion of the alpha of Jaunty ¿
[01:37] <maco> on my hardware: more stable than hardy
[01:37] <Volkodav> вуаштуеудн
[01:37] <xangua> do ypu think is perfect usable or there are things that still nedd to polish for the final user ¿
[01:37] <maco> hardy kernel panicked nearly every day. i just had my first one in a week
[01:37] <Volkodav> definetely
[01:40] <DanaG> wow, stupid notify-osd eats 100% cpu on an older Savage video card on a laptop I have around here/
[01:41] <DanaG> 100% CPU just to show a volume OSD... that actually makes the VOLUME CHANGING ITSELF lag!
[01:41] <DanaG> Having the OSD delay the actual volume changes... is stupid.
[01:41] <bruce89> ah, 6
[01:41] <DanaG> Try playing something, then holding down the volume-up key until it starts blinking and twitching and glitching at you.... and then try to reduce the volume -- YOU CAN'T!
[01:42] <xangua> what is OSD¿, the new default notification  system¿?
[01:42] <xangua> if i don't like it can i install the old one¿?
[01:43] <crdlb> yes and yes
[01:43] <xangua> ooh, that is great!!
[01:51] <DaemonFC> hmmm, they busted Pulseaudio on Jaunty
[01:51] <DaemonFC> I was going through my logs and stumbled on that
[01:52] <maco> er...?
[01:52] <maco> when?
[01:52] <maco> glitch-free is disabled. that was the thing causing crackling
[01:52] <maco> and there's a patch about to go into the kernel to make pulseaudio not crash
[01:52] <dtchen> which means i need to rebuild, since tim just uploaded -11.37
[01:53] <maco> without your patch?
[01:53] <DaemonFC> Mar 23 21:34:23 ryan-desktop kernel: [    0.000000] AMI BIOS detected: BIOS may corrupt low RAM, working around it.
[01:53] <DaemonFC> hehe\
[01:53] <dtchen> i haven't asked for my patch to be pulled yet
[01:53]  * DaemonFC goes to the Fedora docs to see what he can dig up
[01:53] <maco> waiting on more feedback?
[01:53] <Roey> dtchen:  hey man
[01:53] <mhjacks> crdlb:  I'm bugging out and going with the x11vnc+gdm solution
[01:54] <Roey> and DaemonFC and mhjacks and maco, always maco.
[01:54] <crdlb> mhjacks: how were you using dbus-launch exactly?
[01:54] <mhjacks> It does pretty much what I want it to and seem to work decently.
[01:54] <mhjacks> I was running dbus-launch gnome-session, which is what the manpage suggested
[01:54] <Roey> quesiton... is there a way to revert to intrepid's do-release-upgrade package?
[01:55] <Roey> I errantly changed all my deb source lines to jaunty
[01:55] <Roey> and upgraded the  do-release-upgrade package.
[01:55] <Roey> problem is, it has a ton of dependencies for Jaunty leading all the way up to libc.
[01:55] <maco> dpkg --force-downgrade
[01:55] <Roey> (1).
[01:55] <Roey> ah
[01:55] <maco> oh
[01:55] <maco> dependencies? that could be bad...
[01:55]  * DaemonFC turns on glitch free pa
[01:55] <crdlb> so you already upgraded part of the system?
[01:55] <DaemonFC> thanks to the fedora docs
[01:56] <DaemonFC> hehe
[01:56] <maco> that dpkg line will just overrde the "but something newer's installed" errors
[01:56] <Roey> ok
[01:56] <maco> DaemonFC: you want glitch-free? its really glitchy on a lot of hardware...
[01:56] <Roey> crdlb:  just do-release-upgrade
[01:56] <Roey> crdlb:  I stopped the madness when I realized it wanted to upgrade libc as wel.
[01:56] <maco> DaemonFC: well its only not-glitchy when you have a very low latency kernel. so...when you use fedora. and that's it.
[01:57] <DaemonFC> maco: It works fine for me in Fedora 10
[01:57] <DaemonFC> so why would it not here? B-)
[01:57] <maco> because ubuntu's kernel doesnt have PREEMPT enabled
[01:57] <crdlb> Roey: eh, if it only upgraded one package, then you can fix your sources, update, and use apt-get install with the exact version
[01:57] <DaemonFC> maco: Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.29-ryan1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Mar 23 20:31:31 EDT 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[01:57] <Roey> ok
[01:57] <maco> DaemonFC: oh special kernel. ok.
[01:57] <DaemonFC> mmhm
[01:58] <DaemonFC> brb
[01:58] <DaemonFC> reboot
[01:58] <Roey> em
[01:58] <Roey> crdlb:  so I issued sudo apt-get install --reinstall update-manager-core and got:  Reinstallation of update-manager-core is not possible, it cannot be downloaded
[01:59] <crdlb> I didn't say reinstall
[01:59] <Roey> ok
[01:59] <Roey> then what then?
[01:59] <crdlb> use apt-cache policy PKG to get the version
[01:59] <Roey> ahh
[01:59] <Roey> one moment
[01:59] <crdlb> and sudo apt-get install package=version
[01:59] <Roey>   Installed: 1:0.110.0
[02:00] <Roey> but
[02:00] <Roey> the versiontable info gives:
[02:00] <Roey>  *** 1:0.110.0 0
[02:00] <Roey>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[02:00] <crdlb> you want to look at the candidates
[02:00] <Roey> crdlb:  instead of a server location and distribution name
[02:00] <DaemonFC> maco: It seems to work better
[02:00]  * DaemonFC checks logs
[02:00] <Roey> http://pastebin.com/m451078dc
[02:01] <Roey> crdlb:  see that
[02:01] <crdlb> Roey: looks fine
[02:01] <DaemonFC> maco: Mar 23 21:59:22 ryan-desktop pulseaudio[3541]: module-alsa-source.c: Your kernel driver is broken: it reports a volume range from 18.00 dB to 18.00 dB which makes no sense.
[02:01] <DaemonFC> I see the same error for Ubuntu kernel users
[02:01] <DaemonFC> so it has to be Pulseaudio that's broke
[02:01] <Roey> crdlb:  I have never seen this status message before
[02:01] <Roey> "not possible"
[02:01] <DaemonFC> or an Ubuntu kernel setting that is broke and made it past me
[02:02] <crdlb> Roey: exactly what you'd expect; there's the package in /var/lib/dpkg/status (ie already installed), then there's the older versions in the intrepid repos
[02:02] <Roey> crdlb:  does this .110 package come from intrepid??
[02:02] <crdlb> no
[02:02] <Roey> doesn't look like it does, to me at least.
[02:02] <Roey> ah ok
[02:02] <Roey> so if I remove it
[02:02] <Roey> and re-install it...
[02:02] <Roey> maybe it'll install intrepid's version?
[02:02] <crdlb> it's the jaunty package that apt doesn't know about anymore
[02:02] <Roey> aaaah
[02:02] <crdlb> I told you want to do
[02:02] <Roey> ok this is what I igured
[02:02] <crdlb> s/want/what/
[02:03] <Roey> Roey: eh, if it only upgraded one package, then you can fix your sources, update, and use apt-get install with the exact version
[02:03] <Roey> ok
[02:03] <DanaG> Hmm, my usb sound card reports from 0db to 0dp in alsamixer.
[02:03] <crdlb> 21:59 < crdlb> and sudo apt-get install package=version
[02:04] <DaemonFC> DanaG: Check your kernel log
[02:04] <DaemonFC> probably a variant of what I'm experiencing
[02:05] <Roey> crdlb:  thanks
[02:05] <Roey> crdlb:  I also accidentally upgraded python2.6
[02:05] <Roey> but for the candidates I see in apt-cache policy, I only see the jaunty one.
[02:05] <crdlb> you didn't upgrade it, you installed it
[02:05] <DanaG> hmm, PA doesn't complain about mine, though; it just doesn't use that slider.
[02:05] <crdlb> intrepid didn't have 2.6
[02:06] <DanaG> The sound card also has both a "Speaker" and a "Speaker 1" slider; only the latter takes any effect.
[02:06] <Roey> crdlb:  ahhhhhh
[02:06] <DanaG> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=828f344af10679049c8471cd2d0cfe0de69cf46d
[02:06] <Roey> ok then.
[02:09] <maco> DanaG: when did you last update?
[02:10] <DanaG> I'm using the PA 0.9.15 PPA, though.
[02:10] <maco> oh
[02:10] <maco> dtchen says doesnt matter, still the driver
[02:11] <DaemonFC> DanaG: Where is that at?
[02:25] <DaemonFC> heh, I installed PA 0.9.15 and most of the kernel errors went away
[02:26] <dan457> :-)
[02:26] <DaemonFC> it went back to 44100 HZ and stereo
[02:26] <DaemonFC> that's good enough for me
[02:27] <DaemonFC> and no crackling either
[02:27] <dan457> I get some on certain video files.  nothing I cannot live with for now.
[02:27] <DaemonFC> Jaunty isn't even out yet and I have to build my own kernel and use a test version of PA
[02:27] <DaemonFC> :P
[02:28] <dan457> I'm sure they will have that fixed by release.
[02:28] <dan457> not so sure about my keyboard repeat issue resetting X though.
[02:28] <dan457> might have to just leave that off.
[02:30] <DaemonFC> hmmmm
[02:30] <DaemonFC> does PA 0.9.15 default to Glitch Free? Or did it jsut carry over my setting?
[02:30] <dan457> prob using your old settings.
[02:31] <DaemonFC> I use a real time kernel
[02:31] <DaemonFC> there's no reason not to use glitch free
[02:31] <DaemonFC> seeing as how it works fine on my system
[02:32] <dan457> hmm... I wonder if that would speed up handbrake any.....
[02:32] <dan457> I do archive dvd's on this box mostly.
[02:33] <DaemonFC> there's really no reason not to have realtime if you have reasonable hardware
[02:33] <DaemonFC> it solves so much laggy behavior that it's worth sparing soem raw throughput potential
[02:33] <dan457> amd quad 9950.
[02:33] <DaemonFC> yeah, you should definitely use it
[02:34] <DaemonFC> but Jaunty's realtime kernel was broken last time I tried it
[02:34] <DaemonFC> froze up a lot
[02:34] <dan457> kinda been waiting for 9.04 to be released before messing with kernel...
[02:34] <DaemonFC> I compiled my own 2.6.29 realtime kernel
[02:34] <dan457> nice.
[02:34] <DaemonFC> they changed the Linux mascot with 2.6.29
[02:34] <mindframe> what the hell is a realtime kernel
[02:35] <mindframe> is that the mortenson fork?
[02:35] <DaemonFC> His name is Tuz and he's a Tazmanian Devil, but only til 2.6.30, then it's Tux again
[02:35] <mindframe> -mm ?
[02:35] <DaemonFC> Ingo Molnar and others
[02:35] <DaemonFC> no, it's not -mm
[02:35] <maco> mindframe: -rt
[02:35] <DaemonFC> it's an option in the standard kernel config
[02:35] <maco> mindframe: its low latency
[02:36] <DaemonFC> no, low latency is Voluntary Preempt
[02:36] <DaemonFC> realtime is everything can be preempted except critical kernel code
[02:36] <lymeca> Will GNOME 2.26.0 be in jaunty?
[02:36] <DaemonFC> GNOME 2.26 is already in Jaunty
[02:37] <bruce89> and most likely 2.26.1
[02:37] <DaemonFC> maco: Generally, you're advised to use no preemption for servers, voluntary for standard desktops, and realtime for ultra low-latency desktops B-)
[02:38] <DaemonFC> you're essentially trading theoretical raw throughput for better responsiveness and guaranteed process deadlines
[02:38] <maco> right
[02:38] <maco> but responsive is usually what you want on a desktop
[02:38] <DaemonFC> exactly
[02:38] <dan457> but would that make my video encodes faster or slower.. hmmm.
[02:39] <DaemonFC> and it can result in better actual throughput in many workloads anyway
[02:39] <DanaG> Doesn't no-preemption allow greater possibility of deadlocks, or something/
[02:39] <DaemonFC> yeah it does
[02:39] <DaemonFC> stay away from that if you are using a lot of interactive programs
[02:40] <dtchen> no, 0.9.15 only masks the issue, and it only works that way on certain hardware
[02:40] <dtchen> the real issue is in the kernel; the fix is queued for 2.6.30
[02:40] <DaemonFC> great, I get to ride another branch of the kernel
[02:40] <DaemonFC> lol
[02:40] <DaemonFC> this one still has that new kernel smell
[02:40] <DaemonFC> they always take all my fun :(
[02:41] <DanaG> tuz:  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE1MA
[02:41] <DaemonFC> oh well, I'd be dealing with all this crap and more on .28
[02:43] <eternal_p> hey all...anyone else having a problem with aMSN and webcams?
[02:43] <dan457> no webcam here, sorry.
[02:44] <DaemonFC> eternal_p: YOu mean it doesn't see it?
[02:44] <dan457> but overall binary driver and new xorg 1.6 yes.
[02:44] <DaemonFC> or that it only occupies 1/4th the window with your cam
[02:44] <eternal_p> DaemonFC: neither, amsn just doesn't see it, but I can see it everywhere else
[02:44] <DaemonFC> aMSN doesn't support VFL1 devices
[02:44] <DaemonFC> Fedora patches it so it can
[02:45] <DaemonFC> but other than that, expect to buy a new webcam B-)
[02:45] <eternal_p> DaemonFC: worked fine in 8.10 :)
[02:45] <DanaG> random: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ARMImageSelection
[02:45] <DaemonFC> hmmm, that's odd
[02:45] <eternal_p> agreed
[02:45] <eternal_p> amsn says a driver isn't loaded, but it is there
[02:46] <DaemonFC> if it was the GSPCA transition it would have stopped working in Intrepid
[02:46] <DaemonFC> Hardy would be the last release it worked in
[02:46] <IntuitiveNipple> Depends on the camera chip-set
[02:47] <DaemonFC> meh, they did heavy development work on Intel HD Audio so I guess I should have expected some minor setbacks
[02:47] <DaemonFC> :P
[02:47] <eternal_p> DaemonFC: found a launchpad about it
[02:47] <DaemonFC> I had a Creative Webcam Instant, Fedora is the only distro that supports it
[02:47] <DaemonFC> they patches everything to work with VFL1 devices
[02:48] <DaemonFC> but that thing is crap and so it's a cat toy B-)
[02:48] <DaemonFC> *patched
[02:52] <jscinoz> i thought that compiz black window bug was fixed long ago
[02:53] <jscinoz> Whenever i open more than 3-4 maximised windows, any subsequent windows are just the titlebar, then entirely black
[02:54] <Amaranth> jscinoz: nvidia?
[02:54] <Amaranth> If so, it was 'fixed' in the sense that by the time you hit it your system will probably lock up and/or OOM due to stupid nvidia bugs
[02:54] <Amaranth> jscinoz: nvidia?
[02:54] <Amaranth> Latest driver?
[02:57] <DaemonFC> 180.37
[02:57] <DaemonFC> is what you should use
[02:57] <Amaranth> Pretty sure that one still leaks memory at a rate of several MB a window but hey, at least you don't get black windows
[02:57] <DaemonFC> there's a leaked 185 driver floating around, I'm not that crazy though
[02:58] <DaemonFC> I've never had trouble with Nvidia
[02:58] <crdlb> "leaked"? it's a beta
[02:58] <DaemonFC> whatever, I think they did it by accident and jsut don't care it's on the server
[02:58] <DaemonFC> there was no announcement
[02:59] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: When you run out of texture memory and it starts using system RAM for textures it allocates them in compiz (so it looks like compiz is chewing RAM) and...never free them
[02:59] <DaemonFC> that's never happened to me
[02:59] <maco> hello jaunty users
[03:00] <DaemonFC> if we want to play the crappy linus video drivers
[03:00] <DaemonFC> they all do some really bad stuff
[03:00] <DaemonFC> *linux
[03:00] <maco> can someone open seahorse and edit your pgp key. click add a name. in the name slot (not the email slot) put "name@example.com" and hit ok. does seahorse spin the cpu?
[03:00] <DaemonFC> under the right circumstance any program will fall over and die though
[03:01] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: This is not "for a small group of people this happens" this is _everyone_
[03:02] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: You probably have enough texture memory to not need to worry about it
[03:02] <Amaranth> And for games they exit once you're done with them so you never notice it leaked
[03:03] <DaemonFC> 512 MB
[03:03] <Amaranth> right, not a problem
[03:03] <maco> a lot of nvidia cards were blacklisted by compiz
[03:03] <Amaranth> Now, an older laptop with 128MB...
[03:03] <maco> that was their workaround to the black window bug
[03:03] <Amaranth> maco: No, older cards were
[03:03]  * Amaranth wrote that check to block those cards
[03:03] <DaemonFC> well, my Geforce 7 and 6 series cards work
[03:03] <maco> i didnt say all
[03:03] <DaemonFC> so it must be some ancient crap
[03:03] <maco> i said a lot
[03:04] <Amaranth> the idea being if you have 128MB of texture memory you have to be a power user to see the bug
[03:04] <maco> was going to say "the ones that didnt have much mem"
[03:04] <maco> my card has 8mb shared video memory. and it works fine. yay intel!
[03:04] <DaemonFC> I only use Nvidia, it's not because I have the hots for them
[03:04] <DaemonFC> it's cause everythign else sucks worse
[03:04] <DaemonFC> :P
[03:04] <dan457> my gforce 8800 and 9800 work ok.  well, except a minor issue with 2 x server on this box.  but I worked around it.
[03:05] <Amaranth> maco: 8mb aperture, system memory - memory used actual memory available to it
[03:05] <dan457> ati didn't work worth crap playing video here.
[03:05] <Amaranth> it can just only look at the memory in 8MB chunks
[03:06] <maco> oh
[03:06] <DaemonFC> My Radeon 200m in my laptop is bizarre, Compiz works in Fedora but not Ubuntu, Mandriva but not Suse or Debian
[03:06] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: Yeah, the 200m is such crap
[03:06] <DaemonFC> and even that is just dependent on the release you use
[03:06] <Amaranth> It probably breaks every other combination of kernel, X, and driver
[03:07] <DaemonFC> precisely
[03:07] <Splex> which package is /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base included in?
[03:07] <dan457> Well, with the open source driver improving finaly, maybe ati will be ok.... in a year or so.
[03:07] <Splex> how do i restore it to default?
[03:07] <Amaranth> Splex: I don't have that file, are you using intrepid?
[03:07] <Splex> yes, im wondering if it is no longer included in alsa...
[03:07] <Splex> the file is there
[03:08] <Splex> and the sound suddenly stopped working
[03:08] <DaemonFC> Nvidia bypasses most of the X Server, X's interface is so bad I really can't blame them
[03:08] <DaemonFC> well, not most, but a lot
[03:08] <Splex> and i have reinstalled the packages
[03:08] <Splex> purged-reinstalled
[03:08]  * crdlb hopes the X1250 continues to be reliably supported ...
[03:08] <crdlb> DaemonFC: I can :)
[03:08] <Splex> must be that they don't use that file anymore.
[03:08] <DaemonFC> that's why a lot of X changes don't apply to Nvidia users
[03:08] <DaemonFC> you either already had it in Nvidia or can't use it cause it's not in Nvidia
[03:09] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: The interface being the way it is is what allows them to bypass half of it
[03:09] <dan457> prob the only reason why things are running resonalby well here.
[03:09] <DaemonFC> X Server can be patch replaces
[03:09] <DaemonFC> *replaced
[03:09] <DaemonFC> in memory
[03:09] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: And how do you expect anyone but nvidia to support that crap when half the server is closed-source nvidia stuff _and_ the kernel is tainted?
[03:10] <DaemonFC> thats why it flags the kernel tainted, obviously
[03:10] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: They simply define their own functions to call and plug them into a vtable, X specifically allows such things
[03:10] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: So theoretically, they could optimize their drivers that way
[03:10] <DaemonFC> not having to use the standard facilities
[03:11] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: The point is nvidia doesn't support it and we can't because a bug in some part is probably a bug in nvidia's private copy/reimplementation
[03:11] <DaemonFC> and I'm sure they do
[03:11] <DaemonFC> I can file a bug with Nvidia
[03:11] <DaemonFC> they do support it
[03:11] <Amaranth> damnubuntu: Nice nick
[03:11] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: They've never responded to my bug reports
[03:12] <Amaranth> Except once to say "that'll be fixed in the next release" with no timeline or guess as to the next release
[03:12] <Amaranth> (it was 2 months later)
[03:12] <damnubuntu> haha sometimes you gotta say it man it will make you pull your hair out
[03:12] <Amaranth> With an open source driver if they fixed the bug I could have grabbed it from git and been happy
[03:12] <dtchen> Splex: module-init-tools in jaunty strongly recommends the .conf suffix
[03:13] <DaemonFC> it's taking the open source drivers years to even work, sometimes, for 2d
[03:13] <DaemonFC> so I think a month or two is easy B-)
[03:13] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: What open source drivers haven't gotten 2d for years that have had a spec provided for them?
[03:14] <DaemonFC> meh, the open source radeon driver doesn't support a lot of chipsets properly
[03:14] <DaemonFC> and even if it does work, Compiz comes in and blacklists it, so you have to override it
[03:14]  * crdlb wonders if radeon will have DRI2 in time for gnome-games 2.28 ...
[03:14] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: Give a developer hardware and watch it get fixed
[03:15] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: We blacklist things that don't work :P
[03:15] <bruce89> sounds like Oxfam
[03:15] <DaemonFC> Amaranth: Then how did my Geforce 9500 GT get blacklisted in Debian?
[03:15] <Amaranth> crdlb: Fedora 12 plans on having DRI2 for intel, radeon, and nouveau so...
[03:15] <DaemonFC> I override it and it works
[03:16] <Amaranth> DaemonFC: I dunno, Debian doing something stupid?
[03:16] <crdlb> Amaranth: so no :)
[03:16]  * Amaranth looks at the channel name
[03:16] <DaemonFC> touche
[03:16] <Amaranth> That's probably because they don't want to ever get a bug report for a closed source driver
[03:17] <crdlb> no nvidia cards have ever been blacklisted upstream
[03:17] <Amaranth> crdlb: Hrm, I thought we got the memory size check upstream
[03:17] <DaemonFC> I wondered about that, that's all
[03:18] <crdlb> Amaranth: I meant by PCI ID
[03:18] <Amaranth> ah
[03:18] <DaemonFC> I can't stand projects that go to insane extremes to try and protect the user from themselves
[03:18] <DaemonFC> being easy is wone thing, only being easy is bad
[03:19] <DaemonFC> *one
[04:48] <DanaG> Is there any way to prevent the kernel from loading something that's compiled-in?
[04:49] <DanaG> I want to use the phc-intel driver... but the damned ubuntu kernel has acpi-cpufreq BUILT IN.
[04:53] <DanaG> It's not a module, so I can't blacklist it!
[04:54] <RAOF> I seem to remember the discussion for this change.  What does phc-intel provide that acpi-cpufreq doesn't?
[04:54] <DanaG> More CPU frequency states.
[04:55] <DanaG> With rmclock for Windows, I can get like 8 states.  acpi-cpufreq has 3.
[04:55] <DanaG> Why is it built-in, anyway?
[04:55] <RAOF> I forget, actually.
[04:56] <DanaG> Same thing was true on my previous laptop: 6 with windows, 3 with Linux.
[04:56] <DanaG> HOwever, speedstep-centrino had never supported Yonah at that time.
[04:57] <DanaG> Isn't there some acpi=something parameter I can pass?
[04:58] <DanaG> phc-intel can also do undervolting, by the way -- not that that matters too much when my radeon is eating power so badly.  =þ
[05:05] <DanaG> Compiling that in means that, to use phc-intel, I'm going to have to compile a whole new kernel.  :(
[05:06] <DanaG> Oh wait, but it doesn't do Montevina, anyway.  =þ
[05:10] <DanaG> Waitaminute... phc is no longer based on speedstep-centrino... now it's based on acpi-cpufreq.  So, it won't give me the full 6 or 8 (or however many states) anyway.
[05:12] <RAOF> Is there much of a reason to do anything more than 100% and minimal?
[05:15] <DanaG> Hmm, maybe not.
[05:15] <DanaG> Good point there.
[05:48] <avuton> (in other words, much more information is required to help.)
[05:55] <eMaX> hi all
[05:56] <eMaX> anyone knows what's missing - for some reason, suspend etc. just disappeared these days
[05:56] <cwillu> your gnome-power-manager probably isn't running for whatever reason
[05:57] <eMaX> well it seems to be running
[05:59] <eMaX> I am not using gdm as it doesnt manage to come up with X - I log into a text console and then use startx. Yet then I don't apparently have an option to tell gnome to invoke standby
[06:06] <eMaX> if not using gdm, is it normal not to haven an option to "suspend"?
[06:10] <wgrant> eMaX: That's normal, yes.
[06:10] <eMaX> wgrant, thanks
[06:11] <eMaX> well in fact I saw that the "battery" icon allows me to standby. but then it goes back to the screen saver and when I unlock, it tells me that standby had failed
[06:28] <DanaG> Here's one thing that might be fun to benchmark: gtkperf performance for nvidia versus nv versus nouveau versus fglrx versus radeon versus radeonhd, for all same-generation hardware, all else the same.
[06:33] <RAOF> DanaG: I know nouveau will beat nvidia and should trounce nv, at least on my hardware.
[06:33] <DanaG> On the nv17, it might be the other way around: nv trounce nvidia, and nvidia... just crashes Xorg.  =þ
[06:59] <MikeL> DanaG: ... do I just rename the file from tty6 to tty6_disabled ??
[06:59] <DanaG> Perhaps better would be to comment out the contents.
[07:00] <MikeL> I know in debian there was a line in /etc/inittab there was just one line that controlled it all
[07:01] <MikeL> thanks
[07:03] <eMaX_> hi all
[07:03] <eMaX_> wgrant, ok was an interesting issue with standby
[07:03] <eMaX_> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal-info/+bug/235284
[07:07] <eMaX_> is 2.6.29 going to make it into jaunty?
[07:08] <MikeL> my guess is no, but it's possible
[07:09] <MikeL> kernel freeze is the 9th
[07:09] <MikeL> not much time between now and then
[07:09] <eMaX_> 2.6.29 is out, at least
[07:10] <MikeL> the problem is that it might be out too late to do enough testing on it
[07:11] <eMaX_> if jaunty was just more stable anyway... sometimes like when starting highly questionable programs like firefox, the machine freezes, then hard resets. with no log entries whatsoever.
[07:20] <MikeL> eMaX_: wow - I've had nearly no issues at all
[07:20] <MikeL> I'm running it on my production system
[07:20] <MikeL> anyway - extremely tired
[07:30] <adred> kopete can't connect to my gmail account. any idea?
[07:38] <scizzo-> adred: does it give any error?
[07:40] <adred> scizzo, nope. it just tries connecting and it always fails..
[07:48] <scizzo-> adred: not much to go on really
[07:49] <scizzo-> adred: try to start the kopete software in a terminal to see if it gives any error
[07:49] <adred> scizzo, alright
[07:59] <adred> scizzo, don't see any error message in the terminal...  it's weird, i don't have this problem with pidgin in ubuntu.
[08:18] <scizzo-> adred: check if there is a bug reported about it on launchpad
[08:18] <scizzo-> adred: might be others that has had the same problem
[08:22] <adred> scizzo, alright. one more thing..my screen resolution always reverts back to 800x600 each time I log out. will this be fixed in the next release?
[08:39] <scizzo-> adred: actually I don't know why you are getting that once being logged out....
[08:39] <scizzo-> adred: you have set it inside ubuntu right?
[08:42] <adred> scizzo i don't think I follow you. I am using kubuntu and I didn't set anything. With Ubuntu, I never encountered the same problem.
[08:43] <adred> scizzo, could it be because I am not using proprietary driver for my card? It's ATI X550.
[09:18] <jscinoz> so
[09:18] <jscinoz> i got irssi working with notify-osd
[09:21] <RAOF> That's moderately cool.  Does it proxy over ssh/screen? :)
[09:26] <fyl0n> anyone experience with wpasupplicant and eeepc1000H (jaunty alpha6)
[09:26] <mcp_> Hi. Can someone tell me how to disable ipv6 in Ubuntu-Jaunty? I think ipv6 is compiled into the kernel, so module-blacklisting does not work. Is there a kernel parameter to disable ipv6?
[09:26] <DanaG> eeepc? eeepk?  isn't it "eee pc"?  =þ
[09:26] <DanaG> Two words.  =þ
[09:27] <fyl0n> yeah and WPA and supplicant tooo
[09:36] <GibbaTheHutt> has anyone experienced a problem in thunderbird where every option is greyed out (all of top menu and also right click menu) ?
[09:38] <scizzo-> jscinoz: wow...nice
[09:38] <scizzo-> jscinoz: like RAOF asked "does it proxy over ssh/screen?"
[09:42] <jscinoz> scizzo-: not the notifications, but i can still use it in screen+ssh as normal
[09:43] <jscinoz> it just has the nice notifications when im at my desktop
[09:43] <jscinoz> mcp_: why would you want to do that
[09:44]  * crdlb wrote an irssi notifier in vala that does work with ssh :)
[09:45] <crdlb> jscinoz: apparently some cable modems break unless you disable ipv6
[09:46] <jscinoz> crdlb: is your linux box doing the actual management of the connection, or is it just getting an ip over an ethernet connection to the modem?
[09:46] <jscinoz> crdlb: oh wait it was mcp_ that had the problem not you :P
[09:46] <crdlb> indeed
[09:46] <jscinoz> crdlb: your irssi notifer, what does it use as its method of displaying notification
[09:46] <crdlb> libnotify
[09:47] <crdlb> I'm using notification-daemon though
[09:48] <mcp_> jscinoz, i have no v6 connection and i will not have for a long time. I currently to to debug some socket-app i write. And all the ipv6 entries in wireshark are confusing me.
[09:48] <jscinoz> surely wireshark can filter them though
[09:49] <mcp_> jscinoz, sure it can. But i dont think i want my box to send useles requests all the time. So, do you know how to disable it? Is it possible at all?
[09:50] <jscinoz> mcp_: as you havn't configured anything its liekly you're just seeing the ipv6 link-local addresses and their associated traffic (do the addresses start with fe80?), its not really sending a notable amount of data
[09:52] <mcp_> no, they actually are ::1. Thats the loopback addr i think. But i dont want ipv6 on any of my interfaces
[09:54] <mcp_> So let me restate my question. Dose someone know for sure ipv6 cannot be disabled? I will compile a new kernel without then.
[09:54] <crdlb> that appears to be the case
[10:04] <hmw> hmm... should I click that update button or stay safe?
[10:05] <Fudge> click
[10:05] <hmw> heheh... alright... i shall be brave...
[10:05] <ikonia> I'm shocked if ipv6 is not a module
[10:05] <mcp_> hmw, they are in some kind of beta freeze currently, so clicking is fairly safe anyway id guess
[10:06] <IntuitiveNipple> IPV6 is bultin
[10:06] <mcp_> ikonia, at least i guess its not a module (from what i've read in the internets) and by the fact lsmod does not list anything with ipv6 in its name. I dont know enough about modules to be entirely sure though.
[10:06] <hmw> is it beta already?
[10:06] <mcp_> hmw, no its not
[10:07] <mcp_> but only few days away
[10:07] <hmw> aah.
[10:08] <ikonia> mcp_: you should still be able to disable it (in theory) just not using blacklisting, although I'd be dissapointed if it's now built in
[10:08] <IntuitiveNipple> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/313218
[10:08] <hmw> 2.6.28.11 ... again? hmm...
[10:08] <hmw> as there is no ipv6 module, it has to be built in
[10:10] <ikonia> dissapointing
[10:11] <peppot> has anyone else had trouble with metacity making a non-maximized window only be maximized? i.e. I have a small window, and use the "toggle maximized state" keyboard shortcut, and when I try to go back to the non-maximized state, it only switches between a fullscreen like mode, and 99.9% maximized...
[10:13] <peppot> ah, seems "toggle maximization state" does something else... binding "Maximize" also includes the function to 'toggle' back to non-maximized state, and it works properly...
[10:19] <hmw> ipv6: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1026105.html
[10:19] <hmw> i'd like to hear, if the 4th last entry's suggestion works
[10:21] <scizzo-> anyone using jaunty on a server yet?
[10:21] <ikonia> I've got one running - but's its certainly not production ready
[10:24] <mcp_> hmw, i already tried that. It works exactly as described. The ipv6-interfaces are still available. And applications accessing them just hang forever. So its pretty useless.
[10:25] <hmw> ic, thx. how sad!
[10:28] <scizzo-> ikonia: new install or upgraded?
[11:05] <ikonia> scizzo-: it was a new install, sorry for the slow response
[11:17] <landswipe> i'm running 9.04, but want to upgrade my wifi drivers to compat-wireless.. I tried sudo make install and get 'Disabling ath_pci ...mv: canont stat 'volatile/ath_pci.ko': No such file or directory'
[11:22] <landswipe> funny thing is the drivers shipped with ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04 can only delivery like 60kb/s via my wireless card.
[11:22] <landswipe> in 8.10 when i upgraded to compat-wireless to get aircrack working... i found the wireless sped up dramatically
[11:36] <void^> landswipe: does the link go down to 1mb/s?
[11:40] <scizzo-> ikonia: no worries
[11:40] <scizzo-> ikonia: hmmm ok...since I will run a do-release-upgrade later I was just wondering
[11:46] <eMaX> and then again, sound is gone LOL
[11:51] <ikonia> scizzo-: I'd wait until it's released
[11:51] <ikonia> scizzo-: and then even a few days later to make sure any obvious bug alerts are called out
[11:53] <scizzo-> ikonia: yeah
[11:54] <aurel42> Howdy. Do I tell someone when I find problems with Jaunty? Or is this the time to remain silent and be patient?
[11:54] <scizzo-> ikonia: was thinking about that so was pretty much wondering if anyone was trying ti
[11:54] <scizzo-> ikonia: it even
[11:54] <ikonia> aurel42: ask in here or log an official bug
[11:54] <ikonia> scizzo-: got it on a test box, nothing more
[11:54] <scizzo-> ikonia: sounds good
[11:55] <aurel42> Accessing an IMAP mailbox using ssh is much slower than before, it seems Evolution stopped syncronizing the remote mailbox locally.
[11:56] <ikonia> aurel42: it's that a check box?
[11:57] <ikonia> aurel42: have you tried it with a different client say thunderbird for a test
[11:57] <aurel42> ikonia: "Automatically synchronize remote mail locally" is checked
[11:58] <aurel42> ikonia: I can test with Evolution on 8.10, if that helps.
[11:58] <ikonia> aurel42: I'd test with also a non-evolution package
[11:58]  * aurel42 installs Thunderbird.
[12:06] <aurel42> ikonia: I don't think I can test with Thunderbird, it doesn't seem to offer collecting mail with a custom command.
[12:07] <ikonia> ahhh you're doing it with a custom command
[12:07] <aurel42> that's what I meant when I said "Accessing an IMAP mailbox using ssh"
[12:07] <ikonia> I thought you just meant tunneling
[12:09] <aurel42> BTW, while we were talking, Evolution claimed to be extremely busy, by now it's unusable, reacts to clicks very sluggish and doesn't display folder contents anymore.
[12:13] <aurel42> according to bugs.launchpad.net, "tracker" could be the culprit. I'll try disabling it.
[12:18] <aurel42> Removing tracker solved the problem.
[12:24] <eMaX> come on guys
[12:24] <eMaX> someone could please sing a song for me?
[12:24] <eMaX> I just lost my sound (again)...
[12:36] <scizzo-> ikonia: do you know the name of the package or so for the information about updates and so on when you login with ssh?
[12:36] <scizzo-> ikonia: I am wondering if I can get that going on the server I have
[12:36] <ikonia> scizzo-: sorry, expain that again ?
[12:41] <scizzo-> ikonia: when you ssh to a server or the like using jaunty.....you get a message about packages that can be upgraded and so on
[12:41] <scizzo-> ikonia: what is generating that?
[12:41] <ikonia> scizzo-: I thought that was just update manager in the .profile ?
[12:48] <cwillu> eMaX, oooooh, I wish I were an oscar meyer weiner!
[12:49] <eMaX> cwillu I wouldn't wish that if I were you, actually.
[12:49] <cwillu> just singing you a song as requested...
[12:49] <eMaX> ah ok that's acceptable
[12:50] <cwillu> eMaX, having said that, in a terminal, "killall pulseaudio; pulseaudio", and then see if anything interesting shows up there the next time your sound dies
[12:52] <eMaX> what's irritating: I have solved that same problem a week ago.
[12:52] <eMaX> But I forgot how.
[12:52] <eMaX> Alzheimer sucks.
[12:52] <eMaX> Error opening PCM device hw:0: No such file or directory
[12:53] <aurel42> Hmmm. Flash is gone.
[12:53] <aurel42> Do I need to use adobe-flash instead of flash-plugin-nonfree now?
[12:53] <eMaX> aurel42, I didn't see him
[12:57] <Blues-Man> hi all
[12:57] <Blues-Man> i'm using kubuntu jaunty 2.6.28.7 and I have problem with bluetooth file sending with kbluetooth
[12:57] <aurel42> adobe-flashplugin works, flash-plugin-nonfree doesn't work anymore.
[12:58] <Blues-Man> receiving is ok but when I try to send a file via bluetooth connection starts but nothing arrive
[12:58] <aurel42> correction: adobe-flashplugin works... unless you need audio.
[13:00] <Blues-Man> and my fn+brightness button doesn't work unless i used jaunty kernel, i wonder why if I use kernel.org kernel doesn't work and with ubuntu one yes
[13:04] <bazhang> Blues-Man, in intrepid or jaunty?
[13:05] <Blues-Man> jaunty
[13:05] <Blues-Man> i'm using jaunty, i always update it
[13:05] <gaelfx> I am using unr flavor and I am having troubles mounting an NTFS partition on the same drive that Ubuntu is running from. The error says: cannot get volume.fstype.alternative. Has anyone seen this or do you have any ideas what I can do to rectify the issue?
[13:06] <IntuitiveNipple> Blues-Man: probably we're got some SAUCE patches to enable the inputs
[13:06] <eMaX> Blues-Man, good that you said that I didn't update jaunty for like one hour.
[13:06] <eMaX> was getting lazy
[13:06] <Blues-Man> eMaX, ahah
[13:06] <flips01> Hi, I am just trying to install jaunty UNR, daily image from yesterday, I'm getting i/o error [Errno 5] ...
[13:06] <bazhang> Blues-Man, generally folks who are using jaunty will see your question and respond if they know here; I am on intrepid at the moment so dont know definitively
[13:06] <IntuitiveNipple> Blues-Man: what hardware is it?
[13:06] <Blues-Man> is a celeron 1.8ghz 2gb ram intel video
[13:07] <Blues-Man> the bluetooth doongle is a usb one
[13:07] <flips01> should I make a Launchpad case, or just try a newer build (today's image, if it's updated)? :)
[13:07] <Blues-Man> wow usb mouse doesn't work anymore
[13:08] <IntuitiveNipple> Blues-Man: What make/model is what I was wondering - usually the function keys for brightness are supported using additonal input drivers or ACPI
[13:08] <gaelfx> flips01: well, I installed from the initial alpha 6 release, and that seemed to work fine. Is there any special reason you are using the daily build?
[13:08] <Blues-Man> IntuitiveNipple, HP Compaq 6720s
[13:09] <Blues-Man> IntuitiveNipple, i would use my own kernel, not the ubuntu one but i quite need brightness button
[13:09] <flips01> gaelfx: I only found daily builds of the UNR
[13:09] <flips01> and Hardy
[13:09] <gaelfx> flips01: could you send the URL my way? maybe I downloaded the daily build without realizing it.
[13:10] <flips01> I guess I could install regular Jaunty, but since it's an Eee, I assumed UNR was cool ... URL coming soon, gotta start Firefox (in the Live Jaunty system now)
[13:12] <gaelfx> flips01: I tried the regular flavor, but I found that UNR is generally better considering the resolution issues with many of the windows in Ubuntu, however, even on UNR, there are several windows whose bottom borders are below the bottom of my screen so... I'd say it doesn't make a huge difference either way
[13:12] <gaelfx> flips01: although, in UNR, you will rarely see the desktop background and I haven't figured out how to get multiple workspaces going on it :S
[13:14] <flips01> gaelfx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR  and then to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook-remix/daily-live/current/  (which seems to be unavailable right now, or at least very slow)
[13:15] <gaelfx> flips01: ah, ok, hang on a second, I'll send you a link to the one I dled
[13:15] <flips01> gaelfx: I installed EasyPeasy, but the first thing I did was to turn off the netbook interface thing ... is that all there is to it? (I thought there was some kernel optimization and nice default chosen for X or whatever)
[13:16] <flips01> if UNR is just the regular with extra packages, I guess I could just install the regular ... :)
[13:18] <gaelfx> flips01: you can install the regular, however, when I tried to 'update' it to the UNR version, some really strange things happened with most of my windows
[13:18] <user___> how do you install a dummy printer (printing to file) in the printer config gui?
[13:18] <gaelfx> flips01: so if you want to try out the UNR version, you really ought to install it directly
[13:19] <gaelfx> flips01: for the inital alpha 6 release, go here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/jaunty/alpha-6/
[13:20] <flips01> is alpha 6 very different from the daily build? Isn't it very close to beta now?
[13:20] <gaelfx> flips01: well, the daily build has a bunch of updates included that aren't in the 'official' release yet, so there's a chance it might be less stable
[13:21] <gaelfx> flips01: but once you run update, the installation should be essentially the same as the daily build
[13:22] <gaelfx> flips01: the one thing I really like about Jaunty is that it seems to have a newer ath9k driver, so if you are using a newer atheros wireless card, it should run a lot better than in Ibex
[13:23] <flips01> the eee1000 has a ralink chipset I think
[13:24] <gaelfx> flips01: is that b/g/n?
[13:25] <flips01> I think it's n, actually, but might be just g.  I got intrepid working pretty good, but there is some stuff that still looks smoother in Jaunty ... I would go for Crunchbang Eee if it weren't for all the small things I couldn't get working (like Ekiga, some xrandr stuff that usually works) ...
[13:26] <flips01> image downloading ... :)
[13:26] <EvilRoey> hey what's intended for 9.10 besides cloud computing?
[13:26] <gaelfx> flips01: grats, is it going pretty fast?
[13:26] <ikonia> EvilRoey: doesn't exist yet
[13:26] <EvilRoey> but it's been announced
[13:26] <ikonia> EvilRoey: this is for 9.04 disscussion
[13:26] <gaelfx> EvilRoey: Karmic Koala? I heard they are going to concentrate a lot on boot speed
[13:27] <EvilRoey> oh
[13:27] <EvilRoey> is there an #ubuntu+2 then?
[13:27] <ikonia> no
[13:27] <gaelfx> only one way to find out ;)
[13:27] <EvilRoey> gaelfx:  they want to incorporate moblin updates
[13:27] <EvilRoey> gaelfx:  :)
[13:27] <flips01> it takes 7 minutes to download, not too bad, but this work internet connection could handle 10x the speed, at least ... :)
[13:27] <EvilRoey> gaelfx, ikonia:  I get forwarded to here :P
[13:28] <gaelfx> flips01: oh, excellent, then I may still be around when you can tell me if it works or not :D
[13:28] <ikonia> EvilRoey: as I said, it doesn't exist
[13:28] <scizzo-> EvilRoey: well why not wait until the announcement of 9.10 later since jaunty is the first thing they are working on right now?
[13:28] <EvilRoey> ok
[13:28] <EvilRoey> I was just wondering about what new features 9.10 is rumored to get
[13:28] <EvilRoey> that's all.
[13:29] <Pici> !9.10 | EvilRoey
[13:29] <EvilRoey> thank you
[13:29] <EvilRoey> see, at least one person responds usefully
[13:29]  * EvilRoey ducks
[13:29] <flips01> gaelfx:  sure  :) I'll have to disconnect in the meantime, as I am now booted from the jaunty UNR daily image, using pidgin ... (which is weird when you're used to irssi)
[13:29] <gaelfx> flips01: thanks man, i like to see if other people have the same problems as I do
[13:30] <flips01> gaelfx: what hw do you have/use?
[13:31] <flips01> gaelfx: the image is to be dd'd to the /dev/sdc, not to a partition on sdc, right?
[13:31] <gaelfx> flips01: currently, I've got MSI Wind U120
[13:31] <flips01> I also considered the Wind when I bought my netbook
[13:31] <gaelfx> flips01: it seems to be working well enough, but my biggest issue is that I'm living in China, so some connection issues from time to time
[13:32] <gaelfx> flips01: yeah, there is a program called imagewriter you can find in package manager that will put it on the USB for you
[13:33] <gaelfx> flips01: you can't just put the .img on the USB, that won't boot
[13:33] <flips01> I know, dd I wrote ... :)
[13:34] <flips01> imagewriter just does dd I think
[13:34] <gaelfx> flips01: haha, k, sorry, I thought maybe you mistyped dl
[13:34] <flips01> dd'ing right now :)
[13:35] <gaelfx> flips01: gotta restart, updates just finished, be back soon
[13:35] <flips01> but I would usually make an image to dd into a partition, instead of nuking the entire drive
[13:35] <flips01> se ya, soon to reboot and test install here
[13:35] <flips01> s/se/see/
[13:36] <gaelfx> flips01: I think you can do that, but I always think it's better to just use the whole drive
[13:39] <gaelfx> well, all updated and I still can't mount NTFS drives :S
[13:40] <Blues-Man> are you using ntfs-3g or fuse?
[13:40] <Blues-Man> try with both ntfs-3g and ntfs-fuse in fstab
[13:41] <Blues-Man> although ntfs-fuse is better i still use ntfs-3g because I had troubles with file permissions in the ntfs partition
[13:42] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: ok, allow me to reveal my newbness, how do I check which driver my system is using?
[13:42] <Blues-Man> cat /etc/fstab :D
[13:42] <Votan> Hello, Where do I have to put my powersavings scripts in Jaunty ? /etc/pm/sleep.d and power.d seem not to work ?
[13:44] <rohdef> any serious bugs a the moment I should be aware of, or can I "safely" upgrade?
[13:45] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: actually, neither of the partitions that are NTFS show up in that, though they show up on my "desktop" or whatever you call the main UNR window
[13:45] <eMaX> note to myself: Sound again fixed, was just some messed up permissions, a required reboot, 5 required restarts of gnome, and 2 cans of red bull. Am going to put that into my autostart.
[13:47] <Blues-Man> gaelfx, ah yes ubuntu mounts it in its way sorry i forgot
[13:47] <Blues-Man> gaelfx, try to mount it with mount
[13:47] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: hey man, that's ok
[13:47] <Blues-Man> or try to add a line in fstab as
[13:48] <Blues-Man> /dev/sda1 /media/win ntfs-3g user,auto 0 0
[13:48] <Blues-Man> where sda1 is mine windows partition (first one in my hard disk) and win is a dir that I made
[13:50] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: oof, man, mount keeps telling me it can't find the drive in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab
[13:51] <rohdef> anything I should be aware of before upgrading to jaunty?
[13:51] <user___> rohdef: its alpha, its for having fun and checking bugs Only
[13:52] <rohdef> user___, apart from that, I was thinking more like, bugs and stuff like that
[13:52] <rohdef> oh, how do I know witch video-chipset I got?
[13:52] <Blues-Man> gaelfx,  sudo mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /media/win ,if sda1 is your windows partition ntfs
[13:53] <user___> rohdef: its like a preproduction car. you are allowed to drive it. but you cant sue anybody
[13:53] <gaelfx> which command lists all the partitions on my drive?
[13:53] <rohdef> user___, the apart from that comment was another way to say I know the risks of running alpha
[13:53] <maco> sudo fdisk -l
[13:54] <user___> your question about the graphic chip makes me think you shouldnt use alpha ;-)
[13:54] <maco> user___: its in beta freeze
[13:54] <ikonia> I'm inclined to agrere
[13:54] <ikonia> agre
[13:54] <ikonia> agree even
[13:54] <maco> rohdef: "lspci" to find graphics
[13:54] <maco> and pshh it works fine
[13:55] <Votan> guys, is the script folder for battery / AC power still /etc/pm/power.d and sleep.d ?
[13:55] <user___> maco, ikonia thanks for the hint
[13:55] <rohdef> duh! Should have thought of that
[13:56] <maco> and um...ive been using jaunty on the only system i actually use since alpha 2
[13:56] <maco> i had a hardy system too...until about alpha 4...then that went jaunty too
[13:56] <rohdef> user___, but well I know I'm an Intel chip and just saw the note on the page, so I just wanted to be sure ;)
[13:57] <Blues-Man> gaelfx, fdisk
[13:57] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: doesn't seem to work, it gives me the "you did this all wrong help page"
[13:58] <Blues-Man> type dmesg
[13:58] <Blues-Man> and see error
[13:58] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: yeah, I figured out which partition it was already, but thanks for the reply :D
[13:58] <Blues-Man> np
[14:00] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: wait, I think I know the problem with the mounting, for some reason, it won't accept a non-existant directory as the mount directory
[14:00] <th_vdburgt> Hi all, can anybody tell me what happened to the terminal-plugin in gedit-plugins? I isn't in the package anymore? (It is still in the description)
[14:01] <carl_> can i use inrepid to install ibm java  in medibuntu since it is not in jaunty  for medibuntu
[14:01] <carl_> ppc user is why i am asking
[14:01] <carl_> intrepid
[14:01] <Blues-Man> gaelfx, you have to create the dir in media/
[14:02] <DaemonFC> Linux 2.6.29 doe not seem to like "SUSPEND_MODULES="whatever"
[14:02] <DaemonFC> hmmmm
[14:02] <peppot> is anyone else having problems with fontconfig in jaunty? IO
[14:03] <scizzo-> peppot: define fontconfig problem....
[14:03] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: you are gonna hate me. ntfs-3g is apparently not installed on my system...yeah, I'm an idiot
[14:03] <peppot> I'm seeing errors like here: http://rafb.net/p/jfpfKw85.html
[14:03] <Blues-Man> ahah
[14:03] <Blues-Man> apt-cache search ntfs-3g
[14:03] <DaemonFC> looks like some things that Ubuntu does have been deprecated
[14:03] <peppot> scizzo-, see url'
[14:04] <DaemonFC> that's probably why we aren't seeing 2.6.29 in Jaunty
[14:04] <scizzo-> peppot: getting this error on every application?
[14:04] <maco> we dont have 2.6.29 because it was JUST released
[14:05] <maco> and there wouldnt be time for proper testing
[14:05] <DaemonFC> well, a lot of Ubuntu's default stuff generates kernel warnings because it is deprecated
[14:05] <DaemonFC> usually it's as simple as just adding a .conf to the end of a file :P
[14:05] <gaelfx> Blues-Man: ntfs-3g isn't even listed anywhere in package manager... :?
[14:06] <DaemonFC> it still works, but probably a good idea to fix it before 2.6.30
[14:06] <Blues-Man> apt-get install ntfs-3g ntfsprogs
[14:06] <Blues-Man> have fun
[14:07] <gaelfx> ok, nevermind, the stupid search command in synaptic doesn't seem to think that 'ntfs-3g' should be included in the search for 'ntfs'
[14:07] <Blues-Man> use adept
[14:07] <Blues-Man> oh if you are on kde
[14:08] <gaelfx> no, I'm using the UNR variant of Jaunty, so it's all gnome
[14:08] <gaelfx> it's just synaptic's search mechanism is rather...disappointing
[14:09] <Votan> guys: powerTOP tells me uhci_hcd sucks, so why does modprobe -r uhci_hcd tells me that there is no such module ?
[14:11] <gaelfx> FINALLY got it working. I wonder why ntfs-3g isn't included by default...
[14:16] <Blues-Man> gaelfx, cause ntfs-fuse is better
[14:17] <maco> Blues-Man: i thought that WAS the fuse driver
[14:18] <peppot> scizzo-, not sure, I only ever saw it on ardour
[14:19] <gaelfx> well, that one doesn't seem to be on my system either
[14:21] <gaelfx> ok, one last question, how can I diagnose what goes wrong when I try to connect to skype? is there a particular log file i should be looking at?
[14:21] <Blues-Man> yes it is is in ntfsprogs if you have apt-"got" it :)
[14:21] <Blues-Man> http://www.linux-ntfs.org/
[14:21] <Blues-Man> use the Force gaelfx
[14:21] <Blues-Man> :)
[14:22] <gaelfx> haha, if only I were that awesome
[14:34] <flips01> gaelfx: installation worked this time ... I have some issue with this X not detecting my external screen ok
[14:35] <flips01> and I do have some funny window behaviour ...
[14:35] <gaelfx> flips01: well, hey, at least you got it installed!
[14:36] <gaelfx> flips01: did you try to preserve your /home?
[14:36] <flips01> yep, wireless worked without problem, and the X server on the live system worked better ...
[14:37] <flips01> gaelfx: yes, I am now using my homedir from easypeasy 1.0 ... It's causing some weird sideeffects ... I'll have to look more into it later ...
[14:37] <gaelfx> flips01: if you go to preferences and select switch desktop mode
[14:38] <flips01> gaelfx: just did ... h
[14:39] <flips01> but it seems I need to do some manual filtering of stuff from my .gconf and .gnome2* ...
[14:39] <DaemonFC> heh, 2.6.29 has the same suspend bug that I've had since 2.6.22
[14:39] <DaemonFC> but an all new workaround
[14:39] <flips01> but now I gotta go ... see you later :)
[14:39] <gaelfx> flips01: ok, have a good one man
[14:40] <scizzo-> DaemonFC: you compiled 2.6.29 into your ubuntu setup?
[14:40] <DaemonFC> Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.29-ryan1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Mar 23 20:31:31 EDT 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[14:40] <DaemonFC> indeed
[14:41] <DaemonFC> and got the new pulseaudio and configured it to be the same as Fedora's GlitchFreeAudio spec
[14:41] <DaemonFC> B-)
[14:41] <acicula> is there a way to make a nice deb package of source compiled stuff, like kernels, instead of using make install etc
[14:41] <DaemonFC> make-kpkg
[14:42] <DaemonFC> but some of Ubuntu's pre-installed stuff can get in the way
[14:42] <DaemonFC> so remove stuff like nvidia-common first
[14:42] <adam7> acicula: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=311158
[14:42] <DaemonFC> or else it tries to molest your new kernel and could hang the install process
[14:43] <DaemonFC> not necessarily always, but 2.6.29 final didn't like it
[14:43] <acicula> ah nice, but how to do it for the regular ./configure && make &&make install packages?
[14:43] <DaemonFC> other than removing stuff that was intended to make working with Ubuntu kernels, the process is exactly the same as on Debian
[14:43] <DaemonFC> *easier
[14:44] <DaemonFC> you usually want to copy the current kernel's config as a template
[14:44] <DaemonFC> but you can fix anything you find stupid/wrong with make menuconfig
[14:44] <DaemonFC> Jaunty's config has a lot of debug crap enabled for example, and maybe you want it more optimized for you
[14:45] <acicula> havent compiled a kernel in 5 years i think heh
[14:45] <DaemonFC> and also, compiling your own kernel, it won't have an apparmor module, if you consider that a loss
[14:45] <DaemonFC> I just use SELinux
[14:46] <DaemonFC> I copied Fedora's SELinux Targeted policy and applied it
[14:46] <acicula> well it's a bit simplistic, but it's not to bad considering it's pretty easy to use
[14:46] <DaemonFC> Apparmor is easily hacked around, they even give some basic ways of doing that on Ubuntu
[14:47] <DaemonFC> *Ubuntu's AppArmor documentation page
[14:47] <acicula> true, but that doesnt make it completely worthless
[14:47] <DaemonFC> I've never seen a distro enable something and immediately pont out on it's own site that it's worthless
[14:47] <DaemonFC> that's pretty bipolar/funny
[14:48] <acicula> apparmor has it's limitations sure, but it does help, and is vastly easier to configure/understand then say selinux
[14:48] <DaemonFC> "Well it doesn't work, but it *is* easy to write profiles that don't work"
[14:48] <DaemonFC> B-)
[14:48] <DaemonFC> sounds like a Dilbert comic
[14:50] <DaemonFC> it may stop some random script kiddie just banging on people's doors, but probably not anyone that knows what they're doing
[14:50] <DaemonFC> that's how I'd put it
[14:51] <DaemonFC> Apparmor is The Club, to SELinux's "Taking the steering wheel with you" is how I'd put it
[14:51] <maco> haha
[14:56] <DaemonFC> maco: I suggested that the Guest Session depending on Apparmor should be changed to a recommends
[14:57] <DaemonFC> doubt they'll do it, but it would be nice to clean up the rest of this apparmor crap without losing Guest Session totally
[14:58] <gaelfx> how does one create a guest account?
[14:58] <maco> choose "guest session" from the fast user switch applet
[14:58] <DaemonFC> you don't, you dask kliken on das button
[14:58] <DaemonFC> and der komputer makes you one
[14:58] <DaemonFC> B-)
[14:58] <DaemonFC> *das
[15:00] <DaemonFC> or how I like to explain advanced features
[15:00] <DaemonFC>  Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights
[15:00] <ikonia> DaemonFC: english please.
[15:00] <DaemonFC> :P
[15:01] <DaemonFC> meh, it's more of a joke
[15:01] <ikonia> then please don't say it
[15:01] <ikonia> this channel is for Jaunty discussion only
[15:02] <DaemonFC> right, put it this way, if you have no idea what you are doing, it may be best to delay the task until you are sufficiently competent to carry it out
[15:02] <acicula> nice attitude
[15:02] <acicula> gaelfx: as maco said it's generated when you switch to a guest session using the applet
[15:03] <acicula> sortof anyway
[15:03] <DaemonFC> it's nothing new really, it's the same thing that Userful does
[15:03] <DaemonFC> it just creates an account that's deleted when you leave, right?
[15:03] <gaelfx> acicula: ah, ok. Kinda weird, but I guess I oughta take what I can get
[15:04] <DaemonFC> and runs a new X session on another tty I guess?
[15:04] <DaemonFC> I haven't really poked at it much
[15:06] <DaemonFC> really if Ubuntu wants to be useful in libraries and such, they'd emulate what Userful does, the terminal multiplexing and the guest session
[15:06] <DaemonFC> they could market Ubuntu as 10 workstations with one tower
[15:16] <fr500-work> how long does it take from a bug being reported to a status change (confirmed or something)
[15:17] <fr500-work> i've reported some but no avail
[15:19] <ikonia> freeman__: depends on the team involved
[15:23] <swirvbox> I am looking for a solution for evolution to exchange 2007 on 9.04.
[15:23] <swirvbox> Need to get to my email/tasks or go back to windows..
[15:24] <swirvbox> Please spare me the agony :)
[15:24] <ni|> any reason trackpads are having problems in jaunty?
[15:24] <ni|> using ubuntu for work development
[15:24] <swirvbox> My trackpad works fine
[15:25] <ni|> swirvbox: weird!
[15:25] <ni|> i've been using linux for years -- just was hoping to get this up relatively quickly
[15:25] <ni|> and ideas?
[15:25] <ni|> i have latest xserver-xorg-drivers-mouse and synaptics
[15:26] <Pici> ni|: I just saw a changelog while doing a round of updates that mentioned synaptics... I don't remember what it said though.
[15:26] <ni|> Pici: ah, shitty
[15:26] <ni|> or good :P
[15:26] <ni|> just really busy making these installers
[15:27] <maco> ni|:  my trackpad's dandy too
[15:27] <maco> on both laptops
[15:27] <maco> oh right i should install updates
[15:28] <ni|> i mean don't break your systems :)
[15:28] <ni|> i have a usb mouse lol
[15:29] <ni|> note: this was a daily build installer
[15:31] <swirvbox> Anyone get evolution to hook to exchange 2007?  or is there an evolution specific room I should ask this question in?
[15:32] <ni|> heh
[15:32] <ni|> nfc
[15:32] <swirvbox> I have to get it working or go back to windows 7 .. (weeps a little)
[15:34] <tabgal> swirvbox, did you try it via POP or IMAP?
[15:34] <fr500-work> anyone having problems with network on an r8169 network adapter?
[15:34] <fr500-work> on a atom 330 board network dies when under load...
[15:35] <swirvbox> I might as well be using the web interface..I really need calendar/tasks/contacts integrated.
[15:35] <s0u][ight> !shedule
[15:35] <tabgal> swirvbox, maybe ldap works
[15:35] <swirvbox> That is weird.. but I think I have also had strange network issues on an Atom based Acer One.. not sure if it is related
[15:36] <swirvbox> I have read a little about OpenChange.. not sure if there is a package for 9.04
[15:36] <beardbar> anyone running eve online on 9.04?
[15:37] <swirvbox> boo.. openchange is alpha..
[15:38] <swirvbox> guess I am heading back to Windows.  I love Ubuntu.. but for work I live and die by my email/tasks.
[15:38] <swirvbox> Wish my notebook was powerful enough to have a vm of xp up all the time..
[15:39] <swirvbox> Oh while I am here.. any word on the Intel GMA9x driver issues?
[16:00] <erle-> is it a known issue that bootable usb disks made with jaunty-images dont boot?
[16:05] <hix> installed from bootable usb-stick yesterday. worked fine.
[16:05] <bluefoxicy> alpha 6, not beta cycle yet?
[16:05] <s0u][ight> beta = 26/03
[16:06] <bluefoxicy> since when are there 26 months
[16:06] <hix> since there not only us/en ppl on this planet
[16:07] <hix> lot off dd/mm  here outside your world
[16:07] <hix> ;)
[16:07] <bluefoxicy> YYYYMMDD
[16:08] <hix> MMDDYYYY
[16:08] <hix> crap
[16:08] <hix> DDMMYYYY
[16:08] <bluefoxicy> that's not sortable naively :P
[16:08] <hix> this way also possible
[16:08] <hix> hehe
[16:08] <bluefoxicy> hmm.
[16:08] <bluefoxicy> Synaptic lets me auto-upgrade to LTR or normal, but not beta.
[16:09] <DaemonFC> bluefoxicy go to the terminal and use sudo update-manager -d
[16:10] <DaemonFC> but don't close the terminal til it's done with the upgrade
[16:10] <bluefoxicy> DaemonFC:  yes I know, I just have to check when it becomes beta instead of alpha
[16:11] <DaemonFC> in 3 days
[16:11] <DaemonFC> so you basically are only 3 days behind the beta
[16:11] <DaemonFC> if you do it now
[16:11] <DaemonFC> big deal, right?
[16:11] <bluefoxicy> i.e. if i want to use the arbitrary (or not so) distinction that we're in feature freeze release candidate, I have to track it manually
[16:11] <bluefoxicy> yeah I know
[16:11] <bluefoxicy> but next time it rolls around I'll be in the dark again :P
[16:11] <hix> psychologically not acceptable ;)
[16:11] <DaemonFC> what do you mean?
[16:11] <DaemonFC> the development branch rolls up to the current snapshot every time you update
[16:11] <DaemonFC> :P
[16:11] <bluefoxicy> I mean in october if I want to try the beta, but don't want to touch alpha, I have to figure out when it's going into beta
[16:11]  * bluefoxicy has one machine ;)
[16:11] <eMaX> re
[16:11] <DaemonFC> if you keep on the Jaunty branch you'll eventually get the final release
[16:12] <bluefoxicy> just current stable is horribly buggy
[16:12] <eMaX> anyone here experiencing regular hard resets from time to time when opening some of the more questionable applications - like firefox?
[16:12] <sammy> once upon a time, someone in here pointed out a gconf setting to restore the old update-notifier behavior... though I'm realizing as I type this that having the icon appear in the notification area doesn't do much good if it isn't checking for updates more regularly than once a day.
[16:12] <DaemonFC> it works somewhat like Debian, only there I could use "Testing" or "Squeeze", Squeeze would stop at the final release, Testing would move on to the next
[16:13] <bluefoxicy> heh
[16:13] <sammy> eMaX: I was a few weeks ago, totem hard reset my machine once, and both java and totem killed my X session, but those issues seemed to have passed.
[16:13] <DaemonFC> but since Ubuntu is merely just a new fork of Debian every 6 months with "stuff" added, there is only one testing branch, and it always becomes stable
[16:14] <eMaX> probably related to nvidia and compiz, but weird. The cursor freezes, I have to wait like 1 minute, and then I get a hard reset.
[16:14] <sammy> DaemonFC: which is fine for me, I don't like to test alphas when they're brand brand new. I need at least a semi-functional desktop :)
[16:14] <eMaX> Happens about twice a day
[16:14] <eMaX> other than that, pretty functional everything (until the next apt-get upgrade, of course)
[16:14] <sammy> eMaX: I know there are lots of compiz and Xserver updates in jaunty. I'd try and reproduce it and then go bug hunting/file a bug.
[16:15] <bluefoxicy> ooo
[16:15] <DaemonFC> sammy: Alpha 5 was functional enough for me, it had the only new feature I care about in Jaunty
[16:15] <bluefoxicy> the new version of evolution can talk to exchange
[16:15] <DaemonFC> GRUB can boto an XFS volume
[16:15] <eMaX> well you know it is not particularly easy to trace a bug that happens randomly, leaves you with a locked laptop and then reboots without leaving any trace of an error :)
[16:15] <DaemonFC> *boot
[16:15] <sammy> it's true! and those are always the hardest to find existing bugs for.
[16:16] <eMaX> I'll ask #compiz for that matter
[16:16]  * sammy revels in his forced micro-break and is glad workrave works in jaunty again
[16:16] <DaemonFC> I always half to replace half of Ubuntu anyway cause they decided on a compromise that "works for most people"
[16:16] <DaemonFC> and it always breaks something of mine
[16:16] <sammy> speaking of apt-get upgrade, brb, reboot!
[16:16] <sammy-afk> oh I didn't screen this. hrm.
[16:17] <DaemonFC> you should not use apt-get upgrade on the testing branch as it may bring in things with broken dependencies
[16:17] <DaemonFC> use aptitude safe-upgrade
[16:17]  * Blues-Man poweroff
[16:17] <bluefoxicy> DaemonFC:  i hate using multiple apt front-ends
[16:18] <DaemonFC> you should never ever use apt-get to upgrade a testing branch
[16:18] <DaemonFC> only bad things can happen
[16:18] <DaemonFC> B-)
[16:18] <bluefoxicy> there was another one besides aptitude I forget what
[16:18] <DaemonFC> you may get lucky or it may decide to uninstall important things to make other things installable
[16:18] <bluefoxicy> what's the other curses-based apt frontend?
[16:19] <DaemonFC> you can use Smart
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> no it started with a d or something
[16:19] <DaemonFC> Smart can also understand RPMs but you should probably not use it for RPM repos
[16:19] <bluefoxicy> listed things by section
[16:19] <DaemonFC> unless you know what you're doing
[16:20] <bluefoxicy> I used it when Debian Potato was out
[16:20] <DaemonFC> dpkg?
[16:20] <DaemonFC> that *is* the package manager
[16:20] <bluefoxicy> uh
[16:20] <bluefoxicy> it listed things
[16:20] <bluefoxicy> like it would be like
[16:20] <bluefoxicy> It'd have like an I or an X or U next to a package, and the package name
[16:20] <bluefoxicy> or stars next to them
[16:21] <DaemonFC> cool :P
[16:21] <bluefoxicy> dselect
[16:22] <bluefoxicy> anyway every time I ran either dselect or aptitude they picked out a bunch of packages I didn't have installed and marked them for installation
[16:23] <bluefoxicy> so I stopped running either
[16:23] <DaemonFC> if they update packages and the new version depends on something you don't have yet
[16:23] <DaemonFC> of course they are going to install new packages
[16:23] <DaemonFC> :)
[16:23] <bluefoxicy> uh, they installed new admin applications and shit
[16:23] <bluefoxicy> that shouldn't  happen.
[16:24] <Pici> bluefoxicy: Please watch the language here.
[16:24] <DaemonFC> if a new version of a meta package depends on new packages, it will also bring new things in
[16:24] <DaemonFC> thats why you switch off "Treat Recommends as Dependencies"
[16:24] <bluefoxicy> heh
[16:25] <DaemonFC> that way I can clobber a bunch of crap that comes with Ubuntu without whackung ubuntu-desktop
[16:25] <DaemonFC> B-)
[16:25] <DaemonFC> *whacking
[16:25] <DaemonFC> and the next ubuntu-desktop won't want it back
[16:26] <DaemonFC> it's still a good idea to read and verify anything Aptitude wants to install
[16:26] <zniavre> wich soft is suposed to replace gnome-screenshot  please?.
[16:27] <DaemonFC> and some pacakges in Ubuntu that should be recommended by ubuntu-desktop are a dependency
[16:27] <DaemonFC> without reason or purpose B-)
[16:27] <bluefoxicy> o_O
[16:27] <bluefoxicy> I think
[16:28] <bluefoxicy> I think Jaunty just compiled something during boot
[16:28] <IntuitiveNipple> bluefoxicy: That'll be DKMS in action
[16:28] <DaemonFC> yeah, I removed DKMS
[16:28] <bluefoxicy> IntuitiveNipple:  no more shipping binaries?
[16:29] <acicula> Dynamic Kernel Module Support (DKMS) is a framework used to generate Linux kernel modules whose sources do not generally reside in the Linux kernel source tree.
[16:29] <DaemonFC> that's not a recommendation btw
[16:29] <IntuitiveNipple> bluefoxicy: For out-of-tree or restricted drivers, it makes more sense
[16:29] <DaemonFC> if you use Ubuntu kernels, keep it
[16:30] <DaemonFC> kernel-firmware is really the only kernel related package you likely want if you use your own, things like DKMS post-installing nvidia-common can fail utterly
[16:30] <DaemonFC> and are a general nuisance
[16:30] <DaemonFC> but great if you have an Ubuntu kernel
[16:31] <DaemonFC> I may put DKMS back in if I grab VirtualBox, the kernel source for that from Ubuntu still builds for vanilla 2.6.29
[16:33] <DaemonFC> I like the political answer for !dkms though, cause if it's not in the tree it usually violates the GPL and makes your kernel illegal to redistribute
[16:34] <DaemonFC> or low quality out of tree drivers that really do comply with GPL
[16:34] <DaemonFC> but that's what -staging is for
[16:35] <DaemonFC> they mark your kernel Taint_Crap
[16:44] <bh1> is there something like an updated list of ati graphics card with full support?
[16:45] <bh1> for Linux generally would be fine i assume.
[16:46] <bh1> I'm specifically thinking of an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3450
[16:46] <ikonia> bh1: the drivers on the ati website list the supported modles
[16:46] <ikonia> modelss
[16:48] <bh1> can one trust that list to be the same for Jaunty?
[16:50] <rconan> anyone using jaunty with a multiscreen setup?
[16:51] <rconan> I can't seem to put panels on my secondary screens
[16:51] <IntuitiveNipple> rconan: Yes and yes we know :)
[16:52] <IntuitiveNipple> rconan: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/336721
[16:52] <ikonia> bh1: it's the driver version - not the OS
[16:55] <bh1> ikonia: i should have said: whether the driver as shipped by ubuntu is identical (featurewise) to the official ati driver when the versions are the same.
[16:55] <bh1> ikonia: i guess they are?
[16:55] <ikonia> bh1: it's the official drivers
[16:55] <ikonia> bh1: its "the" drivers from ati - just packaged in an ubuntu package to make it easy to maintain
[16:55] <bh1> ikonia: ok, thanks. I'll have a look at the ati webpage.
[16:57] <DaemonFC> ikonia: For the open source or FGLRX?
[16:58] <DaemonFC> I'm sure he'd rather get a card that doesn't require FGLRX B-)
[16:58] <ikonia> DaemonFC: he didn't ask what card to get, - he asked what the drivers supported
[16:58] <DaemonFC> then it will just work on any Linux/FreeBSD with a current-ish version of X
[16:58] <DaemonFC> ahhh
[16:59] <bh1> right, I'm looking at getting a laptop (so I can't really choose card)
[16:59] <DaemonFC> bh1: Some laptop radeons are supported by the open source drivers
[16:59] <DaemonFC> I'm saying lean that way if at all possible because fglrx is crap
[16:59] <DaemonFC> and no I am not exaggerating
[17:00] <bh1> yes, but I'm specifically looking at a laptop which comes with a Mobility Radeon HD 3450
[17:00] <DaemonFC> Intel video is fully supported too B-)
[17:00] <DaemonFC> that would perform probably as well or better
[17:00] <DaemonFC> hmmmm, that might work with RadeonHD
[17:02] <ikonia> what make work with RadeonHD ?
[17:02] <DaemonFC> http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd
[17:02] <ikonia> DaemonFC: I know what it is you just said "that might work with radeonHD" what is "that"
 yes, but I'm specifically looking at a laptop which comes with a Mobility Radeon HD 3450
[17:03] <DaemonFC> ahhh
[17:03] <DaemonFC> bh1: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-radeonhd/plain/README
[17:03] <DaemonFC> don't use the driver Ubuntu offers you if it just works out of box or you'll end up with binary blobs that don't work right
[17:04] <ikonia> Use the driver ubuntu offers you - a lot of time and effort goes into testing it and providing the best possible option
[17:04] <DaemonFC> nope, fglrx does not work right on a lot of cards
[17:05] <DaemonFC> but Ubuntu offers it regardless
[17:05] <DaemonFC> my laptop has one such device, it even supports Compiz with the open source driver
[17:05] <bh1> DaemonFC: very useful. It seems the HD 3450 is supported (to some extent).
[17:05] <aurel42> Can I get rid of Pulseaudio? Killing it doesn't help, it magically restarts when I try.
[17:05] <DaemonFC> with the fglrx blob it goes back to slow acceleration and no compositing
[17:06] <bh1> DaemonFC: your laptop has an HD 3450?
[17:06] <user____> aurel42: how about aptitude purge
[17:06] <DaemonFC> no, the 200m, it's an older model and fglrx does not support it
[17:06] <DaemonFC> but Ubuntu detects that I have a radeon and offers it
[17:06] <DaemonFC> it's utter crap, I am not joking
[17:06] <ikonia> I disagree
[17:06] <ikonia> it is not perfect, but it is aimed at the mass user
[17:07] <aurel42> user____: well, I only wanted to kill it for this session for test purposes, but removing it will certainly help.
[17:07] <DaemonFC> FGLRX drops support of older cards, it performs badly, and they're way behind new X and kernel releases
[17:07] <DaemonFC> so I would just never buy a Radeon again
[17:07] <dan457> the ati driver doesn't support xorg 1.6 properly yet.  I'd wait for a new version.  pro released around the time 9.04 goes stable.
[17:07] <user____> aurel42: ok, i misinterpreted "get rid"
[17:07] <ikonia> I think we all know the ATI card support is poor - so ranting about it, isn't going to change it
[17:08] <ikonia> it's up to the user if they want to risk ATI support or not
[17:08] <dan457> I have a newer onboard ati on this computer I disabled and installed an invidia card for the time being.
[17:08] <DaemonFC> ikonia: Thats why I said use the X driver, if it works better
[17:08] <DaemonFC> it often does
[17:08] <ikonia> I didn't say it didn't but blindly refusing the ubuntu options is not the way to go
[17:08] <dan457> the binary driver does work with his card, but has issues still.
[17:09] <DaemonFC> so you are of the mindset of chunk any kernel tainting crap in just cause it's there?
[17:09] <dan457> poor video playback for one.
[17:09] <ikonia> DaemonFC: again - I didn't say that
[17:09] <DaemonFC> if it works better (Nvidia vs NV) I can see  the point
[17:09] <bh1> yes my current laptop has a radeon 9600 which works with both fglrx and ati.
[17:09] <bh1> ati works much better though..
[17:09] <bh1> suspend and such....
[17:10] <DaemonFC> yes, much more careful/considerate work by dedicated people goes into the open source ati driver
[17:10] <bh1> I'm just not sure about the newer ati models.
[17:10] <DaemonFC> AMD just barely supports Linux cause Nvidia does
[17:11] <bh1> but the comments here indicates that its not a perfect solution currently
[17:11] <aurel42> user____: it was good advice, now I got audio again (without even restarting the session).
[17:11] <goshawk> hi
[17:11] <goshawk> is there any common adv to use for jaunty release parties?
[17:11] <bh1> also, its for a work laptop, so it better work.
[17:11] <DaemonFC> bh1: Neither is perfect, I just mean that if the open source driver braks 1 out of 10 things, and FGLRX is more like 9 out of 10
[17:11] <DaemonFC> it's not a hard choice, heh
[17:11] <DaemonFC> *breaks
[17:12] <bh1> DaemonFC: hence if i want no stuff breaking. Find something else than ati?
[17:13] <DaemonFC> well, Intel chipsets pretty much all work
[17:13] <DaemonFC> and support Kernel Modesetting already
[17:13] <DaemonFC> which no other chipset does
[17:14] <DaemonFC> Nvidia works well with their proprietary driver, you get 2d only and broken multi-monitor support with the open source NV driver
[17:14] <DaemonFC> if it's just a laptop and you won't be doing real hardcore gaming, I'd seek out an Intel GMA video chipset
[17:14] <acicula> bh1: if you want something stable for your ati card then stick with the open source one, i had many problems with fglrx and an ati9600, though that wasnt the mobile variant
[17:15] <dan457> Using nvidia binary driver here.  Multi-monitor with Xinerama on.  Xin is a bit buggy with nvidia still, but works well except for 1 issue.
[17:15] <acicula> i heard good things about the driver for the new cards though
[17:15] <acicula> the open source driver that is
[17:15] <rconan> as far as i can tell multimonitor is unusable in jaunty at the moment
[17:16] <rconan> I do have a few updates to get though
[17:16] <dan457> I had to disable key repeating or my X would reset any time I held down a key too long... everything else is perfect... full 3D desktop
[17:16] <rconan> dan457: ah... that's what that was
[17:16] <dan457> I'm sure that will be fixed by the time 9.04 is released.
[17:16] <rconan> dan457: I assume you don't use separate panels on separate screens
[17:17] <dan457> running 2 X servers
[17:18] <dan457> The X restarting was sooo irritating... but so simple to work around.
[17:18] <bh1> i gotta take of, but thanks for your comments so far!
[17:18] <rconan> dan457: how exactly do you do that?
[17:19] <dan457> When I turned it on xinerama and set each screen with nvidia-settings (as root) thats how it came out.
[17:19] <dan457> Worked well, so left it.
[17:20] <rconan> dan457: I meant disabling the key repetition
[17:20] <dan457> oh, super easy system-preferences-keyboard
[17:21] <rconan> cool
[17:21] <dan457> Just uncheck it.
[17:21] <rconan> I'll do that once I boot back in. I'm in the livecd gchrooted etting updates at the moment.
[17:21] <dan457> no more resets... of corse, no more cheating on backspace, but whatever.
[17:21] <rconan> resets are much more annoying that having to tap backspace
[17:22] <dan457> Can always highlight large blocks to delete instead of just holding down button anyway.
[17:22] <rconan> indeed
[17:22] <rconan> although I imagine I can't hold down left to highlight either
[17:22] <dan457> I put up with that for 3 days before I even tried to fix it, took me 5 sec once I looked..... total facepalm moment.
[17:23] <rconan> dan457: is this bug on the tracker? I can't find it
[17:23] <dan457> No, I it is not last I checked.
[17:23] <rconan> dan457: didn't think to add it?
[17:23] <dan457> Feel free to add it though... it's any repeating key, not just backspace.  alt-ctrl-shift are not effected though.
[17:24] <dan457> I'm bouncing in and out.... no time to make a proper report.
[17:24] <rconan> ahah... https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/324465
[17:24] <dan457> speaking of.... on my way out again... lol
[17:25] <dan457> Good, someone did it already...
[17:25] <dan457> My case didn't matter what screen... but that might be Xinerama's fault.
[17:25] <dan457> doesn't do it with Xin off.
[17:27] <eMaX> re
[17:27] <eMaX> anyone here has problems with hard resets from time to time? is probably related to jaunty+compiz+nvidia+opening certain apps like firefox
[17:30] <rconan> eMaX: are you using multiple screens?
[17:53] <eMaX_> rconan, no, just multiple desktops
[18:01] <eressolar> anyone know of an amarok 1.4 ppa? amarok 2 makes me rage
[18:05] <sammy> I should set up a site with a feature comparison between amarok and banshee and rhythmbox and quod libet and... that other popular gtk one. it seems they all do about 75% the same things, and then it all falls apart; each of them is lacking in an area one of the other excels in.
[18:05] <maco> my computer claims the battery has been removed. it has not.
[18:08] <acicula> what does acpi -V say(in a terminal)
[18:11] <Turl> hi
[18:11] <Turl> can you help me with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/348043 ?
[18:12] <Turl> I don't know which package it affects, or which information would be helpful
[18:13] <acicula> what graphics card?
[18:13] <Turl> acicula: intel one
[18:13] <acicula> and what laptop might be usefull
[18:13] <acicula> lenovo?
[18:13] <Turl> nope, Acer Aspire 6930
[18:15] <Turl> acicula: added that info to the bug report
[18:16] <DaemonFC> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/136907/
[18:16] <DaemonFC> heh
[18:17] <Turl> DaemonFC: seems fine for me :P
[18:17] <tomsdale> hm, minor but anyone else tried the weather plasmanoid in kubuntu jaunty? Sais it's raining cats and dogs outside but the sun shines. Rest of the information is correcct
[18:18] <DaemonFC> Turl: I built Ext2/3/4 as modules and blacklisted them in modprobe.d
[18:18] <DaemonFC> removed JFS and Reiser
[18:18] <DaemonFC> and built in XFS
[18:18] <DaemonFC> B-)
[18:18] <Turl> ext4 ftw DaemonFC :p XFS is not bad either
[18:19] <DaemonFC> the only reason I didn't remove Ext file systems is cause I may need to plug something in that's formatted that way
[18:20] <DaemonFC> but I still don't see any reason to build Ext file systems into the kernel, all it means is that you bloat the kernel image for people who don't use those file systems
[18:20] <o0Chris0o> alright, just had a crash and and apport popped up autmaticly to file a new bug, had to collect the information and said that it would automaticly input it to the field, it didn't seem to work exactly...
[18:21] <o0Chris0o> any ideas
[18:21] <acicula> DaemonFC: it's what ubuntu by default uses , and probably most people will therefor use?
[18:22] <DaemonFC> meh, if you click n drool, you get Ext3
[18:22] <DaemonFC> if you bother to set up the system right, you'll get Ext4 or XFS
[18:22] <DaemonFC> distros tend to fall back to whatever they feel is "safest" or "most compatible"
[18:22] <DaemonFC> not what performs better
[18:22] <DaemonFC> this is not new
[18:23] <Turl> o0Chris0o: it attaches files automatically
[18:23] <Turl> but doesnt input text
[18:23] <o0Chris0o> hmmm
[18:23] <o0Chris0o> ok?
[18:23] <o0Chris0o> I didn't see no files attached
[18:24] <Turl> you get a notification on the file bug page o0Chris0o
[18:24] <Turl> that says that files will be attached blah blah
[18:24] <o0Chris0o> yeah
[18:24] <o0Chris0o> I have no idea what the right in the text box, because all the information is in that attachment then I suppose
[18:25] <o0Chris0o> write even
[18:25] <Turl> write what you were doing when the app crashed
[18:25] <DaemonFC> but there are better ways to go about booting up that Ubuntu is ignoring that could vut a third or more of the boot time
[18:25] <DaemonFC> to worry about a 0.5 second difference which is totally within the margin of error
[18:26] <o0Chris0o> Turl: alright thanks
[18:26] <Turl> np o0Chris0o
[18:27] <DaemonFC> I would still argue that cloning Mandriva Speedboot might be a good way forward for 9.10
[18:27] <DaemonFC> there's some cases where it can go from power up to the login screen in 8 seconds or less
[18:28] <DaemonFC> just by watching what things they start and when
[18:31] <thopiekar> is it a know issue that bluetooth devices are not shown in the pairing wizard on gnome?
[18:31] <thopiekar> hi first of all :P
[18:33] <DecryptedChaos> is there a public "Beta" of Jaunty
[18:33] <DecryptedChaos> i want it for KDE
[18:34] <rconan> DecryptedChaos: not until thursday
[18:34] <Turl> DecryptedChaos: you can get the alphas
[18:34] <DecryptedChaos> is the alpha 6 decent?
[18:34] <DaemonFC> I probably will need to release a "Making Jaunty behave" HowTo
[18:34] <DaemonFC> when it's finalized
[18:34] <calc> DaemonFC: speedboot slows down boot according to phoronix
[18:35] <DaemonFC> Phoronix is a bunch of idiots
[18:35] <DaemonFC> they totally botched that file system test
[18:35] <DaemonFC> I don't trust them or their benchmark suite
[18:35] <calc> DaemonFC: so you get a system that "looks like its booted" like eg Vista but is not usable until later
[18:35] <DaemonFC> it's obvious even to someone who knows little about file systems that Ext3 can't take that kind of beating
[18:36] <DaemonFC> Eric Sandeen wrote in them with a detailed correction
[18:36] <DaemonFC> *into
[18:36] <DecryptedChaos> anyone know of a fast server hosting the Kubnutu alpha 6 iso on a 45 mb line i'd like to putt above 400KB/s
[18:36] <calc> DaemonFC: ubuntu is planning on speeding up boot more in karmic, but depending on how speedboot actually work they might implement some of it
[18:37] <DaemonFC> most hard disks can't take the kind of workload they claimed to run
[18:37] <DaemonFC> but Ext3 can't even handle it on equipment that could
[18:37] <calc> DaemonFC: which workload is that?
[18:37] <DaemonFC> deleting 200 4 GB files a second
[18:37] <DaemonFC> XFS and Ext4 could both handle it provided the hardware could
[18:38] <DaemonFC> Ext3 would fall over and die
[18:38] <crdlb> DecryptedChaos: torrent?
[18:38]  * calc doesn't see anything about that in this article, heh
[18:38] <thopiekar> hmm.. how is it possible to remove all bluez settings? I think my old settings from intrepid are corrupt for jaunty..
[18:38] <rconan> thopiekar: you could try purging it with apt and reinstalling
[18:39] <rconan> not sure which packages you need to do that for though
[18:39] <DaemonFC> calc: http://phoronix-test-suite.com/pipermail/trondheim-pts_phoronix-test-suite.com/2008-December/000077.html
[18:39] <DaemonFC> they can't even understand Bonnie++ output
[18:39] <thopiekar> arn't there settings in gconf of the bluetooth applet?
[18:39] <DaemonFC> so why do you trust anything they say?
[18:39] <thopiekar> rconan: ?
[18:40] <rconan> thopiekar: I don't know anything about bluez but you can make apt remove a package including its configuration files
[18:40] <thopiekar> would a purge of the applet package clean-up my user-settings too?
[18:40] <rconan> thopiekar: no
[18:40] <thopiekar> hmm
[18:40] <rconan> thopiekar: you'd have to delete them. they'll be in the dot files in the home dir though
[18:40] <calc> DaemonFC: heh yea they do seem to not understand :\
[18:40] <DaemonFC> There are some 10,000 RPM hard disks out there that might be fast enough to provide that kind of performance, which would be easy for XFS and Ext4 since they only have to free an Extent
[18:40]  * thopiekar is trying it out..
[18:41] <DaemonFC> Ext3 has to go block by block making it tens of times slower
[18:41]  * rconan hopes that jaunty will be usable on his multiscreen setup once these updates finish
[18:41] <DaemonFC> the first thing I noticed about XFS was when I deleted a 4.4 GB DVD ISO image and BAM, gone!
[18:41] <DaemonFC> Ext3 takes about 5-6 seconds
[18:41] <DaemonFC> easily
[18:42] <Turl> DaemonFC: ext4 does it incredibly fast too
[18:43] <rconan> is that through optimisation of the block by block approach or a shift to the other approach?
[18:43] <DaemonFC> yes, that is due to Extents, Ext4 has many of XFS's features
[18:43] <DaemonFC> but not all
[18:43] <thopiekar> does libbluetooth3 contain configs?
[18:43] <rconan> no idea
[18:43] <thopiekar> hmm I don't think so..
[18:43] <rconan> I've never been able to find a good way of working out which package provides configuration files
[18:43] <crdlb> the configuration is probably in your home dir
[18:43] <DaemonFC> XFS can still eeek out performance over Ext4 in many ways, but it's an inch, not the mile between it and Ext3
[18:43] <crdlb> and therefore would not be affected by purging
[18:44] <thopiekar> crdlb: yes i will remove them after I have reinstalled bluez...
[18:44] <thopiekar> :)
[18:44] <rconan> thopiekar: thinking about it further you probably just need to run through your home dir and delete all relevant dot files
[18:44] <DaemonFC> if you're wanting every drop of performance and/or you run into fragmentation problems with Ext3/4, go with XFS
[18:44] <crdlb> that's the _only_ thing you need to do
[18:44] <crdlb> reinstalling packages is almost always useless
[18:45] <DaemonFC> xfs_fsr can scan for fragmented files and move them to newer more contiguous space, Ext4 will have e4defrag which does the same thing
[18:45] <DaemonFC> but it's nowhere near ready
[18:46] <DaemonFC> you may see that in 10.04 LTS
[18:46] <DaemonFC> as part of e2fsprogs
[18:46] <Turl> DaemonFC: for that time, PCs will use SSD disks which don't suffer from fragmentation
[18:46] <calc> heh i would stay away from ext4 defrag for a year or so after its available, xfs defrag ate my hard drive a few years ago
[18:46] <Turl> :P
[18:47] <rconan> out of interest can you upgrade an ext3 to ext4 like you could with ext2 to ext3
[18:47] <calc> Turl: ssd is no where near ready yet, even the nice Intel ones are limited to 20GB/day
[18:47] <crdlb> rconan: yes, but you probably shouldn't, imho
[18:47] <Turl> rconan: you can, but it won't be as speedy as a new one
[18:47] <rconan> was wondering because I have some 500GB ext3 drives which I'm unlikely to be able to backup and change
[18:48] <rconan> guess I should wait until I can get a bigger one and copy to a new ext4 part
[18:48] <DaemonFC> I have xfs_fsr wake up every hour and make one pass
[18:49] <DaemonFC> that way the file system can never really be fragmented
[18:49] <crdlb> lol
[18:49] <rconan> I thought ext at least was unlikely to ever produce fragmentation due to the reserved space
[18:49] <Cycom> rconan: I don't trust ext4 yet. it ate my /home
[18:49] <DaemonFC> it takes maybe a few seconds in the background, doesn't interrupt me, keeps my disks fast
[18:49] <DaemonFC> B-)
[18:50] <rconan> I'm certainly not going to change them for a long time
[18:50] <calc> rconan: everything fragments A LOT with real world usage
[18:50] <rconan> at least until it's default in a couple of distros so it gets some proper testing
[18:50] <crdlb> Cycom: but I bet it did it quickly!
[18:50] <calc> rconan: especially if you ever use bittorrent
[18:50] <DaemonFC> rconan: Ext3 can fragment and does, run e2fck in READ ONLY mode
[18:50] <Cycom> crdlb: VERY quickly :)
[18:50] <DaemonFC> and on exit it will tell you how much
[18:50] <rconan> DaemonFC: why in read only?
[18:51] <DaemonFC> never run e2fsck in repair mode on a mounted file system, it will destroy everything
[18:51] <rconan> they aren't mounted
[18:51] <Cycom> crdlb: before it ate it, I did notice it was BLINDINGLY fast, but it still is a bit unsettling that it's just like "whoops! Lost the journal! Whoops! All your files are now near-randomly named in Lost and Found"
[18:51] <DaemonFC> well have at it then
[18:51] <DaemonFC> B-)
[18:51] <rconan> and afaik it just exits saying the fs is mounted
[18:51] <DaemonFC> it will give you a printout on how many blocks are non contiguous
[18:51] <DaemonFC> and the overall percentage
[18:52] <rconan> do you need a flag?
[18:52] <DaemonFC> not that I know of
[18:52] <rconan> it just says /dev/sdf1: clean, 35677/30531584 files, 110441925/122096000 blocks
[18:52]  * rconan consults the manpage
[18:52] <DaemonFC> try e2fsck -v
[18:53] <rconan> same
[18:53] <rconan> ah... -f to make it actually check
[18:54] <DaemonFC> I don't have any Ext file systems
[18:54] <DaemonFC> or I'd investigate
[18:54] <DaemonFC> :P
[18:54] <DaemonFC> just SWAP and / on XFS
[18:55] <rconan> I wasn't sure about using ext3 on these
[18:55] <rconan> but I decided reliability and support were the most critical things
[18:55] <rconan> far more important than speed
[18:55] <DaemonFC> you really should not use Ext3 if Ext4 or XFS are options
[18:55] <DaemonFC> you should choose one of those
[18:55] <rconan> ext4 was still in development
[18:55] <DaemonFC> Jaunty can have /boot on XFS as of Alpha 5
[18:56] <DaemonFC> so all you need is /
[18:56] <rconan> no need to complicate it
[18:56] <rconan> boot I always have on ext2 if it is separate
[18:56] <DaemonFC> I filed a bug on that cause it was angering me since forever
[18:57] <DaemonFC> and one of the Ubuntu developers got back to me later saying the GRUB he just uploaded enabled that
[18:57] <DaemonFC> so good deal
[18:57] <DaemonFC> :)
[18:57] <rconan> hmm... fsck is slow
[18:57] <DaemonFC> you never have to run fsck on XFS
[18:57] <DaemonFC> it does it every boot automagically
[18:57]  * thopiekar can't find the config files of bluez-gnome in his home-folder..
[18:57] <DaemonFC> it can repair most corruption itself
[18:58] <rconan> i never normally run fsck on ext3
[18:58] <rconan> well... not with -f
[18:58] <DaemonFC> there's an xfs_repair that you can use for serious fs damage
[18:58] <DaemonFC> but the volume should be offline
[18:58] <DaemonFC> there's also xfs_dump for making backups, and xfs_restore for restoring them
[18:59] <DaemonFC> think of it as snapshots just not as pretty and a lot more labor intensive
[18:59] <rconan> never thought much of filesystem level backup
[18:59] <DaemonFC> but Ext4 still has nothing like it
[18:59] <rconan> never thought it was worth it
[18:59] <DaemonFC> with Ext3/4 you still have to tar
[18:59] <DaemonFC> lmao
[18:59] <rconan> just rsync all the files to somewhere
[19:00] <rconan> much better
[19:00] <rconan> otherwise you waste so much time on the second backup
[19:00] <DaemonFC> I like what Torvalds said "I never make backups, hundreds of people do that for me
[19:00] <rconan> that was about git right?
[19:00] <DaemonFC> yeah
[19:01] <rconan> still not used git all that much
[19:01] <DaemonFC> I pull from Linus' tree and cherry pick some extra patches sometimes from -mm or whatever
[19:01] <rconan> stuck with darcs on the main project I work on
[19:01] <DaemonFC> but having all -mm patches cause you can is stupid
[19:01] <rconan> i used to use igno molnar's tree but had to stop
[19:02] <DaemonFC> basically if you get anything from Andrew Morton's tree you should know what you need, why, and that it could break anything
[19:03] <DaemonFC> with 2.6.29 I didn't see anything else that was terribly important, so I just built from the Linus tree
[19:04] <rconan> i just use the ubuntu kernel now
[19:04] <rconan> I'm not changing anything so I just want it to work
[19:04] <DaemonFC> your mileage may vary, some parts may represent a choking hazard for people with the mentality of small children
[19:04] <DaemonFC> batteries not included
[19:06] <DaemonFC> there's some nice new XFS features in the pipeline
[19:06] <DaemonFC> but they're too experimental for me
[19:06] <DaemonFC> I tend not to try anything too high risk wrt my fs
[19:09] <DaemonFC> I may have to sanitize Jaunty and do an unofficial LiveCD
[19:09] <rconan> well... that took some time
[19:09] <rconan> (7.9% non-contiguous)
[19:09] <DaemonFC> if they don't fix some things
[19:09] <DaemonFC> hmmmm, that's pretty havy
[19:09] <DaemonFC> *heavy
[19:10] <rconan> DaemonFC: bear in mind beta is out on thursday so there will be a push for that
[19:10] <dan457> Custom CD's are nice.
[19:10] <dan457> I use mostly to save time on new installs..... my favorite apps and updates already done....
[19:11] <dan457> Well, live DVD that is.. hehe
[19:11] <rconan> ability to paste a list of packagenames into the installer would be good
[19:11] <DaemonFC> they need to use PulseAudio 0.9.15
[19:11] <DaemonFC> or else it will be full of bugs
[19:11] <rconan> they need to not use PulseAudio
[19:11] <dan457> pulse will be good... one day.....
[19:12] <rconan> i don't really see waht it adds other than a pointless layer of complexity
[19:12] <DaemonFC> 0.9.15 addresses so much crap
[19:12] <DaemonFC> they will use that if they have any sense
[19:12] <rconan> what version is in now?
[19:12] <DaemonFC> if they don't, you'll need to hunt down a PPA
[19:13] <rconan> if it's 0.9 series it might get in
[19:13] <DaemonFC> they have 0.9.14, the Snap Crackle Pop version
[19:13] <DaemonFC> I switched to 0.9.15 and did timer-based (glitch free)
[19:13] <DaemonFC> theirs also causes severe problems on Intel HD Audio
[19:14] <dan457> Well, if they don't i'll break down and make a 0.9.15 from source.... for now i'll wait so see if they do that by release date... only some things sound crapy atm... most play ok.
[19:14] <DaemonFC> nope
[19:15]  * DaemonFC goes to get the log
[19:15] <DaemonFC> Mar 22 18:38:56 ryan-desktop pulseaudio[3386]: alsa-util.c: Device hw:1 doesn't support 44100 Hz, changed to 16000 Hz.
[19:15] <DaemonFC> Mar 22 18:38:56 ryan-desktop pulseaudio[3386]: alsa-util.c: Device hw:1 doesn't support 2 channels, changed to 1.
[19:15] <DaemonFC> Mar 22 18:38:56 ryan-desktop pulseaudio[3386]: module-alsa-source.c: Your kernel driver is broken: it reports a volume range from 18.00 dB to 18.00 dB which makes no sense.
[19:16] <dan457> :-(
[19:16] <DaemonFC> so it switches from stereo to mono, from 44,100 HZ to 16,000 and can't make sense of the new-ish Intel driver
[19:16] <rconan> sounds like an alsa bug to me
[19:16] <DaemonFC> nope
[19:16] <DaemonFC> when I go to 0.9.15, all that's left is the third entry
[19:17] <DaemonFC> and that seems harmless
[19:17] <dan457> Well, you are running your own kernel.
[19:17] <DaemonFC> nope
[19:17] <DaemonFC> that was from an Ubuntu kernel
[19:18] <DaemonFC> I installed their 2.6.28 to see if I had done something wrong
[19:18] <dan457> The generic one you complied still does it?
[19:18] <DaemonFC> and this is also a listed bug in Launchpad
[19:18] <dan457> Ah
[19:18] <DaemonFC> by other Jaunty users
[19:18] <DaemonFC> yeah, it's definitely a Pulseaudio bug
[19:19] <DaemonFC> and 0.9.15 fixes enough stuff that it works reasonably well again
[19:20] <dan457> Well, pulseauto 0.9.15 hasn't been released yet... you download a csv?
[19:20] <DaemonFC> I got it out of a PPA
[19:20] <DaemonFC> the one Jaunty uses is so badly broken I had no choice really
[19:21] <dan457> PPA?
[19:22] <rconan> personal package archive
[19:22] <dan457> I know you can git the development sources from the author, is that what you mean?
[19:22] <rconan> sounds like you need to isolate the patches which fix your problem and backport them to the ubuntu version
[19:22] <DaemonFC> https://launchpad.net/~themuso/+archive/ppa
[19:22] <rconan> that is unless 0.9.15 is gonna come out and get in ubuntu before thursday
[19:23] <DaemonFC> then you can apt-get upgrade to them
[19:23] <dan457> ok.
[19:24] <dan457> I will wait and hope, since I don't realy *need* the bugfix.  if not by release date next month i'll have to do that.
[19:25] <rconan> your waiting on these: http://www.pulseaudio.org/query?status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&group=status&milestone=0.9.15
[19:25] <rconan> it wont get released without those fixed and ubuntu wont include it unreleased
[19:29] <DaemonFC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/348099
[19:31] <DaemonFC> the worst they can do is say no
[19:32] <dan457> ya.
[19:33] <LordKow> if you look at the number of ubuntu updates to 0.9.14 i dont think they will
[19:33] <LordKow> i've updated to 0.9.15 and had quite a few issues arise (whether they were ubuntu fixes in 0.9.14 or not i do not know)
[19:33] <DaemonFC> I may try the Ubuntu version of Pulseaudio again when it's released
[19:33] <DaemonFC> all I need to do is uninstall these, remove the PPA, refresh, and install
[19:33] <DaemonFC> :P
[19:34] <LordKow> it's not that easy to downgrade either without at least temporarily breaking your deb package mgmt
[19:34] <rconan> you can select version in synaptic can't you?
[19:34] <DaemonFC> it's easy as long as they don't depend on something critical in the system
[19:34] <LordKow> kind of but not really when it comes to downgrading
[19:34] <DaemonFC> Pulseaudio still doesn't have lots of external dependencies
[19:34] <DaemonFC> right?
[19:35] <LordKow> DaemonFC, i remember doing that and a few packages simply wouldnt downgrade therefore none of the other pulse packages would downgrade
[19:35] <LordKow> i finally had to use dpkg to remove all the pulse packages, force-depends... --purge, then reinstall the ubuntu packages
[19:35] <DaemonFC> heh
[19:48] <scizzo-> evening
[20:06] <slytherin> any users interested in providing some feedback on dvd playback. I have already got at least one report that it is broken in totem-gstreamer, I would like some feedback on the package I have prepared.
[20:07] <Halow> slytherin:  Totem-gstreamer has been working fine for me.
[20:07] <slytherin> Halow: it is broken for some type of DVDs (I am not sure which type).
[20:08] <DaemonFC> use VLC
[20:08] <slytherin> Halow: do you also have menus working?
[20:08] <slytherin> DaemonFC: it is broken in totem, vlc, mplayer
[20:08] <Halow> slytherin: I do. I haven't come across any that gave me a problem.
[20:09] <slytherin> Halow: that is what makes this bug hard to analyse.
[20:09] <DaemonFC> even with libdvdcss2?
[20:09] <slytherin> DaemonFC: yes
[20:15] <joshua24> hi all
[20:16] <joshua24> just to strike up some conversation........ how is notify-osd working for everyone?
[20:17] <slytherin> joshua24: works fine for me except some flickering sometimes.
[20:18] <joshua24> i havent seen the flickering... yet
[20:18] <joshua24> =)
[20:18] <DaemonFC> I removed the indicator crapplet
[20:18] <DaemonFC> notify-osd is working
[20:18] <DaemonFC> meet the new notifications, same as the old notifications
[20:18] <DaemonFC> mmmmm
[20:18] <gsuveg> re
[20:18] <DaemonFC> the DVD playback is broken
[20:18] <DaemonFC> :(
[20:18] <joshua24> that sucks...
[20:18] <joshua24> i havent gotten around to testing that either
[20:18] <gsuveg> i want install netbook remix on my acer one
[20:18] <joshua24> just installed jaunty yesterfay
[20:18] <gsuveg> and i cant install te remix :(
[20:18] <DanaG> oh yeah, try having two notification bubbles up at the same time... and you'll see that there's no way to get both out of the way at the same time.
[20:19] <DanaG> Easy way to get this: change volume, and skip tracks in a supported app, at the same time.
[20:19] <joshua24> i cant even click outta them
[20:19] <joshua24> just hover hide
[20:20] <rww> joshua24: that's by design.
[20:21] <DanaG> Yeah, buty how do you hover over wo at once?
[20:21] <DanaG> but how do you hover over two at once?
[20:21] <DanaG> And another thing: try hitting and holding the volume-up key... and then try decreasing volume again.
[20:21] <DanaG> You'lll find it laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaags.
[20:22] <slytherin> DaemonFC: refer to bug 342890 please
[20:22] <nemo> DanaG: you mean the lil' notify popups in the lower right?
[20:22] <nemo> like, those notify-send would generate?
[20:22] <DanaG> Lower-right?  You mean upper-right?
[20:22] <DaemonFC> slytherin: Hold on a sec
[20:23] <joshua24> back now
[20:23] <joshua24> had to put some dishes away =P
[20:23] <nemo> DanaG: that's why I mentioned notify-send :)
[20:23] <DaemonFC> http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7060/screenshotb.png
[20:23] <DaemonFC> I got it working B-)
[20:23] <nemo> I guess not
[20:25] <joshua24> nice pic daemon.... yahell messenger??? lol i wish it WAS called that
[20:25] <DanaG> It sits there BLINKING "omg, I'm at maximum volume!" at you.
[20:25] <DanaG> NO shit, sherlock!
[20:25] <DanaG> Now how about stopping blinking and twitching at me, and let me turn down the volume?
[20:25] <slytherin> DaemonFC: how?
[20:25] <joshua24> seroisly
[20:26] <gsuveg> i see BusyBox... and (initramfs)
[20:26] <DanaG> Or, if I skip 5 tracks in quodlibet... it'll take over a minute for it to show the latest track name,
[20:26] <gsuveg> and dont come out X :(
[20:26] <gsuveg> in netbook remix
[20:26] <gsuveg> what can i do ?
[20:26] <DanaG> and it makes it damn hard to figure out what track I'm on.
[20:26] <DaemonFC> slytherin VLC plays it
[20:26] <DanaG> while (true); do notify-send yo 1 && notify-send yo 2; done;
[20:26] <DanaG> ^C
[20:26] <DaemonFC> Totem kind of does
[20:26] <DanaG> Try that... and you'll see the horrid lag and cpu-rapeage.
[20:26] <slytherin> gsuveg: if you are seeing busybox then you are not inside X
[20:27] <joshua24> i hate the volume thing, in the specs it said {We will show the old volume for 500MS then new volume so we get graphics to show that volume changed}, no DIP it changed I hit the dang button to change it on a MULTIMEDIA KEYBOARD for crying in a bucket
[20:27] <DanaG> oh wait.. that's tracker eating my cpu.
[20:27] <gsuveg> slytherin, yes i know :(
[20:27] <slytherin> DaemonFC: so, it means it was not broken, right
[20:27] <DanaG> Very, very, very bad design:
[20:27] <LordKow> does everyone else seem to have buffering issues with x264 streams?
[20:27] <DanaG> Notifications should NEVER EVER EVER slow down the volume changes!
[20:27] <slytherin> gsuveg: then what is your question exactly?
[20:27] <gsuveg> slytherin, but why ;(
[20:27] <DaemonFC> http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9840/screenshotfbb.png
[20:27] <DaemonFC> guess not
[20:27] <DaemonFC> just Totem is a crappy DVD player still B-)
[20:27] <DanaG> Imagine seeing it at max volume... and being TOTALLY UNABLE to reduce volume.. because it's sitting there BLINKING at you!
[20:28] <gsuveg> i cant it install netbook remix
[20:28] <gsuveg> on my acer one, alpha-6
[20:28] <DaemonFC> notifications make the screen flash
[20:28] <DaemonFC> if you watch a video full screen during one
[20:28] <slytherin> gsuveg: when you see busybox it means some problem with initramfs. Try booting form some old kernel still available in your grub menu.
[20:29] <joshua24> hmm, cant see IRC messages in notify-osd now. i closed buddy list, minimized this window yet STILL i see no notifications
[20:29] <joshua24> in pidgin
[20:29] <gsuveg> i try boot from ubs
[20:29] <joshua24> btw
[20:29] <gsuveg> so my old ubuntu works ;)
[20:29] <sebsebseb> ok
[20:29] <slytherin> DaemonFC: totem does not handle all the playback, it is the backend (gstreamer or xine) that handles it.
[20:29] <slytherin> gsuveg: what is ubs?
[20:30] <DaemonFC> Totem is at fault
[20:30] <DanaG> Oh, and try installing and using service-discovery-applet with notifications.
[20:30] <joshua24> any hope here? or am i screwed. sly: he meant USB
[20:30] <DaemonFC> it can't handle DVD menus well
[20:30] <slytherin> joshua24: do you have notification plugin enabled in pidgin?
[20:30] <DanaG> On the old notification daemon, you'd get it spamming a bunch of notifications all at once for all the services it found (that is, if you enabled notifications)....
[20:30] <joshua24> it worked earlier, bout ten mins ago
[20:30] <gsuveg> slytherin, sry. usb drive
[20:30] <slytherin> DaemonFC: it handles them well enough now.
[20:30] <DanaG> ... but in the new one, it'll sit there for 15 MINUTES, blocking all other notifications!
[20:30] <dtchen> why the heck has gconfd-2 been writing at 15.5 K/s to my disk since login?
[20:30] <DanaG> I'm fine with the not being clickable.... but this hardcoded lag really sucks.
[20:31] <DanaG> And this hardcoded glossy black... clashes quite vividly with my theme.
[20:31] <DanaG> Oh, and gnome-power-manager doesn't even USE the new notifications for me.
[20:31] <slytherin> gsuveg: what I am saying is try booting from hard disk itself with old kernel entry and then update the packages.
[20:31] <LordKow> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr avcodec needs to buffer the entire stream for x264 before it actually plays it
[20:31]  * DanaG switches to gnome-stracciatella-session
[20:32] <slytherin> DanaG: file a bug and make sure you have all the updates installed before that.
[20:32] <DanaG> Which bug?  =þ
[20:32]  * joshua24 will be back in a sec, gotta restart pidgin
[20:32] <DanaG> Easy test case:
[20:32] <DanaG>  while (true); do notify-send yo 1 && notify-send yo 2; done;
[20:32] <DanaG> let it run for, oh, 5 seconds.
[20:32] <DanaG> Then watch it spam you for 15 minutes.
[20:32] <slytherin> DanaG: about notification bot working in gnome-power-manager
[20:32] <gsuveg> slytherin, maybe i wait with upgrade ;)
[20:33] <DaemonFC> Nvidia's newer drivers have great DVD playback features
[20:33] <joshua24> back now
[20:33] <ikonia> DaemonFC: if you could check your PM's please.
[20:33] <DanaG> STill spamming me.
[20:34] <RAOF> DaemonFC: Such as?  mpeg2 decoding acceleration is pretty boring.
[20:35] <DaemonFC> meh, only if you don't use mpeg2
[20:35] <joshua24> of course it didnt work
[20:35] <joshua24> notify told me NOTHING that happened when i was workin just now
[20:35] <DanaG> spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
[20:35] <DanaG> =þ
[20:36] <DanaG> With the old notification-daemon, it would show them all for however long you let it send them... and then it'd be DONE.
[20:36] <DanaG> On the new one, it's like the damned energizer bunny....
[20:36] <DanaG> ... yeah.
[20:36] <RAOF> DaemonFC: I mean, it's boring because my CPU can decode it faster than parsing the stream & setting up the mpeg2 acceleration engine.  You need to have an _ancient_ CPU before performance at mpeg2 decoding is a problem.
[20:36] <RAOF> mpeg4 & VC-1, on the other hand, _are_ usefully accelerated.
[20:37] <DanaG> How about I just tell you when it STOPS spamming me with the damned notifications.
[20:38] <DanaG> Wow, and xorg is eating 60% CPU.  Thanks, notify-osd.
[20:38] <RAOF> DanaG: There's meant to be a limit to the size of the notification queue; I think it was... 20?  Or maybe 200 :).  You might want to suggest a shortening of the queue.
[20:38] <DanaG> And while it's at it, no other apps can use the osd.
[20:38] <DanaG> For example, pidgin notifications aren't appearing.
[20:38] <RAOF> Not quite true.  Anything that sends an urgent notification will get through.
[20:40] <DanaG> oh, and while it's doing that loop... now add some volume changes to the mix... and watch as you can't hover-hide both notifications at once.
[20:40] <joshua24> still no notification in pidgin. maybe its cuz it thiinks IRC would bog up the notify?
[20:41] <DanaG> That notification delaying the volume changes... is royally stupid.
[20:41] <joshua24> ok dana... we get it now.
[20:41] <DanaG> Picture this: you try to increase volume, but accidentally hold it down too long... now your music is blasting... and you can't do a damn thing about it, because it's still blinking "omg, I'm at max volume!" at you.
[20:41] <DanaG> =þ
[20:41] <joshua24> its a pain in the arse, we get it
[20:45] <DanaG> wait, notify-osd shows device-detection?
[20:45] <DanaG> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/NotifyOSD
[20:46] <DanaG> Or rather, is supposed to... ?
[20:46] <DanaG> Might be nice to make it hide all bubbles when you hover over any bubble.
[20:47] <Halow> I've never seen it detect any devices.
[20:48] <rww> me either
[20:48] <Halow> Or say anything about power management, for that matter. We have random brown/blackouts, and my UPS has kicked up a few times during my testing.
[20:49] <dtchen> ah, it's similar to bug 293535. nuking ~/.gconf did the trick.
[20:50] <dtchen> thanks, iotop.
[20:50] <acicula> hey i can remove someone from my ignore list i see
[20:55] <sgodsell> hey does the alpha version of ubuntu have xorg 1.6?
[20:55] <acicula> yes
[20:56] <sgodsell> and xrandr 1.3?
[20:56] <acicula> think itsays so on the jaunty/alpha page
[20:56] <acicula> that too iirc
[20:56] <acicula> and 28
[20:56]  * acicula comes with preempt compiled in
[20:56] <sgodsell> 2.6.28 kernel you mean?
[20:56] <RAOF> Although you'll also need drivers that support xrandr 1.3.  I know nouveau does, not sure about anything else.
[20:56] <acicula> yep :)
[20:57] <thiebaude> im waiting for the 2.6.29 kernal
[20:57] <sgodsell> its already out
[20:57] <thiebaude> how can i get it
[20:57] <sgodsell> released last night
[20:57] <acicula> thought i saw a relase post about that
[20:57] <acicula> thiebaude: git ?
[20:57] <sgodsell> kernel.org
[20:57] <slytherin> thiebaude: you will have to wait till someone from kernel team makes a package.
[20:57] <thiebaude> slytherin: ok
[20:58] <DanaG> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.29/
[20:58] <DanaG> Just be aware things like fglrx need patches.
[20:58] <thiebaude> i'll keep checking my updates
[20:58] <DanaG> And it won't have the fix for the audio glitches.
[20:59] <rww> DanaG: fglrx needs patches for *everything*. It takes less time for me to reboot into Windows to play games than it does for me to figure out what's broken fglrx on any given day so I can get WINE working >.>
[20:59]  * DanaG just uses radeon.
[20:59] <berniv6> DanaG: do you know whether it has the updated radeon drm for r600?
[20:59] <DanaG> fglrx has never (except for 8.543) done anything but panic for me.
[20:59] <DanaG> I'm not sure about the drm modules in that one.
[21:00] <rww> berniv6: in what, .29 or Jaunty?
[21:00] <DanaG> I'm also not sure if Jaunty default kernel has r6xx-r7xx-support branch.
[21:00] <berniv6> rww: .29, I know it's in jaunty's default 2.6.28
[21:00] <DanaG> rww: i'd actually like to know about both.  =þ
[21:00] <hmw> fglrx has been sent from big capitalists to irritate us freedom loving linux users.
[21:00] <thiebaude> haha
[21:00] <rww> DanaG: It's either in Jaunty or going to be in Jaunty soon. Dunno about .29.
[21:00] <DanaG> But hey, look at the alternative: you could be stuck with nouveau.
[21:00] <rww> lol
[21:01] <DanaG> On an nv17 laptop I have around here, nouveau just plain hammers both cpu and hard drive -- yes, somehow it makes everything such as gnome-panel and nautilus hammer the hard drive.
[21:03] <acicula> i used flgrx for 5 minutes, and then decided i could live without 3d acceleration
[21:04] <hmw> i tried to make it work for a certain configuration, took me 20hrs to get it fully up the first time. then i wanted to play a game and needed to switch to single head. another 10 hours. it just does *something* but nothing predictable. especially if you mix a radeon dualehead card with a pci voodoo banshee... i will not try that again.
[21:05] <DanaG> That's no surprise... fglrx breaks *, and nvidia breaks *.
[21:05] <DanaG> You can't use one image for both {nvidia or ATI} hardware and intel hardware, for example.
[21:05] <DanaG> ... unless you use the open-source drivers.
[21:05] <nemo> Tracker here has decided to freeze up for around a day now on attempt to idnex a tiny little evolution folder
[21:05] <DanaG> ... in which case, ati > nvidia.
[21:05] <nemo> at least, that is what lsof says it is doing
[21:06] <hmw> when i can afford to actually *buy* hardware (i use srcap material), i will certainly buy one for linux.
[21:06] <nemo> is there something I can do to smack tracker upside the head besides blowing away .cache/tracker ?
[21:06] <DanaG> hah, notify-osd is still spamming me.
[21:06] <RAOF> nemo: It shouldn't be indexing that at all; it won't work :)
[21:06] <nemo> well. it has it open...
[21:07] <nemo>  /home/nemo/.evolution/mail/imap/nemo@m8y.org/folders.db
[21:07] <nemo> also has open mail/local/Templates and mail/local/Inbox
[21:07] <nemo> complete reboots of system haven't helped at all
[21:07] <nemo> new process spins its heels at 100% of free CPU in same place
[21:12] <hmw> any new bug since yesterday? interesting stuff solved?
[21:13] <gsuveg> bye
[21:13] <kopete> Wine. With 8.04 Wine was changed. From official repository and from winehq.org. I can't execute "wine program" from home directory, only "wine program.exe". In other directories All works fine.
[21:14] <gaviscon> hi
[21:15] <gaviscon> can anyone please advise, why my eyes hurt when on ubuntu. current res is 1164x864 75.
[21:15] <acicula> seems an odd resolution?
[21:15] <kopete> It is a bug now. Second. In kkrieger font is like in Windows with 7.04 and 7.10. With 8.04 and 8.10 it is other font. I tried Wine 0.9.53, 1.0.0 and 1.1.16 with clear 7.10 and 8.04 from livecd
[21:15] <hmw> maybe antialiased fonts?
[21:15] <dupondje> update to Jaunty breaks dmraid, aptitude reinstall dmraid is needed, maby that would be cool if it would happen automaticly :)
[21:15] <gaviscon> 1152x864 75
[21:15] <kopete> Thank you for iso mounting in 8.04
[21:16] <DanaG> 75hz?  On CRT?
[21:16] <DanaG> Well, that'd be why... try 85Hz.
[21:16] <DanaG> If not, then I don't know... I've never heard of an 1152x864 LCD.
[21:16] <gaviscon> DanaG: lemme try
[21:17] <nemo> bah. guess I'll just blow away tracker
[21:17] <nemo> stupid lil' thing
[21:17] <hmw> tracker is for indexing files to speed up certain apps, right?
[21:17] <kopete> Now Wine thinks that this is CD-ROM, not a hard disk. In 7.10 it was not. 3. In WMP9.0 with 7.10 and any Wine i see visualization. It changes when I play music. In 8.04-8.10 it doesn't change with mp3...
[21:18] <RAOF> No; tracker is desktop search.
[21:18] <hmw> aah... sounds like locate
[21:19] <acicula> it indexes file content
[21:19] <hmw> ic, thx.
[21:20] <kopete> 4. Offician Wine's binary has a trouble with pixel shaders in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Morrowind. Only compilation with Mesa 3D has this bug. If nvidia-glx-dev installed and if do fakeroot apt-get -b source wine, pixel shaders works in this games too. Maybe, we need binaries specially for nvidia? Without bug?
[21:22] <hmw> lol only update since yesterday is update manager
[21:22] <dupondje> http://pastebin.com/d22f87c43
[21:22] <dupondje> bug ? :)
[21:25] <hmw> out of curiosity: how do you trigger this, dupondje?
[21:25] <dupondje> just boot :P
[21:26] <hmw> ah... that end trace got me confused... sure its boot... hmm.
[21:29] <dupondje> else Jaunty seems working nice :)
[21:29] <berniv6> rww/DanaG: r6xx drm is not in the 2.6.29 package
[21:32] <wolfgang> hey guys.. how to disable ipv6 on jaunty? can't find a /etc/modprobe.d/aliases or equivalent
[21:32] <hmw> wolfgang: its not built into the kernel :(
[21:32] <hmw> s/not/now
[21:32] <wolfgang> o.o
[21:33] <wolfgang> oh.
[21:33] <wolfgang> that is.. rahter not good.
[21:33] <hmw> m-hm.
[21:33] <wolfgang> so.. i simply can't disable it?
[21:33] <hmw> you could compile your own kernel
[21:33] <rww> I swear there was another way of doing that...
[21:33] <wolfgang> guess i couldn't ^^
[21:34] <wolfgang> well.. i would also use some kind of workaround..
[21:34] <berniv6> wolfgang: you should fix your problem with IPv6 :-)
[21:34] <wolfgang> i don't really need it disabled.. i just don't want it to be used by e.g. opera
[21:34] <hmw> wolfgang: look at tht 4th last entry of http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1026105.html - maybe this helps you
[21:35] <wolfgang> (it is pretty much pissing me off to wait 20 seconds until a page starts loading)
[21:35] <wolfgang> will do, thanks
[21:37] <hmw> i am luckily not expiriencing problems with this ipv6 issue. What is needed, to get running into the bug?
[21:37] <wolfgang> hm, doesn't really.
[21:37] <wolfgang> hmw: opera ;)
[21:37] <hmw> wolfgang: i fear you gotta look out for some kernel building tutorial. shouldnt be too hard after all.
[21:38] <wolfgang> i had this issue on my other computer with 8.10 on it.. and on this one with 9.04
[21:38] <wolfgang> hmw: hm, okay..
[21:39] <wolfgang> if i can get the same kernel somewhere and just am able to disable this one feature.. it shouldn't be too difficult
[21:39] <hmw> my impression is, that you need a "bad" isp for that bug. Anyone can direct me into the right direction? I'd like to understand the problem
[21:39] <wolfgang> you might be right.. or a 'bad' router
[21:39] <berniv6> hmw: usually its a bad soho router
[21:40] <wolfgang> which doesn't understand that it gets ipv6 signals.. or something like that
[21:40] <berniv6> hmw: which does not answer to AAAA queries to the integrated DNS proxy
[21:40] <berniv6> so instead of getting an immediate "there's no v6 for this website" the client gets no answer (-> timeout)
[21:40] <wolfgang> actually i'd prefer just having an isp which provides ipv6 instead of disabling it in my kernel :)
[21:41] <hmw> wolfgang: disabling is a bad solution in the long run. We should fix the problem instead of hiding below a v4 rock...
[21:41] <wolfgang> i agree..
[21:41] <hmw> but if it is bad routers, i wonder, if it can be solved at all?
[21:42] <wolfgang> exactly!
[21:42] <berniv6> hmw: there are two solutions (well, three to be exact)
[21:42] <wolfgang> but i think, my interface should no, that it has no ipv6-connection.
[21:42] <berniv6> a) upgrade router firmware
[21:42] <wolfgang> is up to date.
[21:42] <berniv6> b) don't use the router as resolver, but use the ISP ones
[21:43] <wolfgang> i don't know whether this really is a possible solution, you're sure it is?
[21:43] <hmw> wolfgang: b) sounds quite reasonable to me
[21:43] <berniv6> c) all previous ubuntu releases for the last two+ years patched glibc not to send AAAA queries at all when no global v6 address was configured, but a lot has changed in glibc 2.9
[21:43] <berniv6> wolfgang: works just fine
[21:43] <abarbaccia> is there no sound in flash currently?
[21:44] <gaviscon> how can i upgrade X-server to 1.6 ?
[21:44] <wolfgang> hm.. so i would need to edit my resolv.conf to something with some other dns-server in it?
[21:44] <DanaG> berniv6: ah.
[21:44] <wolfgang> that's it?
[21:44] <scizzo-> gaviscon: what do you mean really?
[21:44] <berniv6> wolfgang: yes, try wether that helps
[21:44] <wolfgang> @ c) i'm not so into those libs.. i don't really understand that
[21:44] <wolfgang> okay, will do.
[21:44] <hmw> abarbaccia: i hear sound on youtube
[21:45] <wolfgang> btw. does your nick imply that you're using ipv6? :D
[21:45] <abarbaccia> hmw: which flashplayer are you using?
[21:45] <hmw> nonfree
[21:45] <berniv6> wolfgang: yes :-)
[21:45] <wolfgang> :)
[21:46] <abarbaccia> hmw: odd. im not getting any audio output from flash - let me run ff in a terminal and see if theres output. doubtful thought
[21:46] <berniv6> DanaG: and I fail to build a new drm.ko/radeon.ko for this kernel (it builds but complains about missing symbol init_mm on loading), so I'm downgrading :-(
[21:46] <abarbaccia> hmw: pulseaudio and firefox are spiking my CPU
[21:47] <hmw> abarbaccia: i have similar problems with skype... but had worse problems in 8.10
[21:47] <sgodsell> gaviscon, but there is no guarentee that it will work.
[21:47] <dtchen> abarbaccia: you should at least use my test kernel (http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/)
[21:48] <dtchen> abarbaccia: also, make sure that the Flash stream hasn't been migrated/redirected to a null source. you can use pavucontrol to check.
[21:48] <sgodsell> gaviscon, or you can just install 9.04 alpha if you want to be man enough  ;-)
[21:49] <gaviscon> p
[21:49] <abarbaccia> dtchen: whats the differences in your kernel and current jaunty?
[21:50] <abarbaccia> doubtful its a kernel level setting though considering audio works through gstreamer and other apps
[21:50] <wolfgang> guess i'll have to restart networking
[21:50] <wolfgang> brb
[21:50] <wolfgang> i hope.. ;)
[21:51] <dtchen> abarbaccia: see my git tree, specifically the pcm branch
[21:52] <rww> Hrm. When I run pavucontrol I get a "Connection failed: Connection refused" error and it quits =/
[21:52] <dtchen> abarbaccia: (the kernel is a separate stability issue)
[21:53] <rww> oh. pulseaudio isn't running. but my sound still works. weird.
[21:53] <god-mok> yay, kde freezed, had to hard restart, and now my home is gone again :>
[21:53] <dtchen> rww: because alsa is being used.
[21:54] <god-mok> fsck can't correkt anything... damn
[21:54] <rww> dtchen: I figured. I don't remember telling it to do that, though =/
[21:59] <dtchen> rww: if you're using GNOME, autoaudiosink falls back to alsasink if pulsesink is unavailable
[22:04] <wolfgang> worked perfectly.. i chose to use some opendns servers :)
[22:04] <berniv6> wolfgang: great ... what vendor/model/firmware version is your router?
[22:04] <wolfgang> d-link dir-855
[22:04] <wolfgang> 1.12EU
[22:05] <berniv6> bah
[22:05] <wolfgang> dislike dlink? :)
[22:05] <berniv6> that's a recent box :-(
[22:05] <wolfgang> ah, yes.. it very much is
[22:05] <berniv6> do you have "dig" on your system?
[22:05] <wolfgang> it arrived today.. but my fritzbox also didn't always handle it correctly.
[22:05] <berniv6> try "dig -t aaaa www.heise.de @<routerip>"
[22:05] <rww> that reminds me, I need to go set up opendns on my router
[22:05] <berniv6> does that give an answer immediately?
[22:05] <DanaG> Mmm, opendns... got bogus-nxdomain?
[22:05] <wolfgang> yes, it does
[22:06] <berniv6> wolfgang: NOERROR or SERVFAIL? (status, in the first few lines)
[22:06] <DanaG> Oddest DNS error I've ever seen: REFUSED.
[22:06] <DanaG> Like the DNS server REFUSES to give me an answer, or something.
[22:06] <berniv6> DanaG: exactly
[22:06] <wolfgang> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 25796
[22:06] <berniv6> wolfgang: okay, weird, then you should not be affected by this problem :-(
[22:07] <wolfgang> hm, it might be software-related?
[22:07] <wolfgang> like opera messes up..
[22:07] <wolfgang> i mean.. if i do a simple "host bla" in console, it works immediately
[22:07] <berniv6> wolfgang: if you have some time, could you please reconfigure your router in /etc/resolv.conf and run "tcpdump -n -s 0 -i eth0 port domain" while you try it?
[22:08] <berniv6> iirc there has been another change in Jaunty glibc that sometimes confuses the hell out of those SOHO routers
[22:09] <wolfgang> berniv6: you mean putting 192.168.0.1 back to my resolv.conf and then run that command?
[22:09] <berniv6> yes, yes, then do whatever you usually do with opera and then paste the output of that tcpdump to a pastebin
[22:11] <wolfgang> uhm.. should i replace domain with something?
[22:11] <wolfgang> and port?
[22:11] <berniv6> no
[22:11] <wolfgang> kk, brb then
[22:14] <wolfgang> http://pastebin.com/d3a1865ae berniv6  :)
[22:15] <berniv6> hum
[22:15] <Milosz> Hey how can I fix the position of the new notification bubbles/popups?
[22:15] <berniv6> wolfgang: there must be a "search search.b.superkabel.de" line in your resolv.conf, remove that please
[22:15] <Milosz> I set it to bottom right but they still appear at the top right
[22:15] <Halow> They don't move.
[22:16] <berniv6> I think it's superkabel who f*cks it up, at least your trace pretty much looks like
[22:16] <Milosz> so notification-properties is useless or what?
[22:16] <Milosz> Kabel Deutschland is one twisted ISP
[22:16] <wolfgang> humm, kay
[22:16] <wolfgang> done
[22:16] <Milosz> just delete resolv.conf if you use KD, and put a 4.2.2.4 in there
[22:17] <berniv6> wolfgang: restart opera, did it help?
[22:20] <wolfgang> berniv6: yes :)
[22:20] <berniv6> wolfgang: okay, please shoot someone at KD, thanks
[22:20]  * wolfgang reloads.
[22:21] <wolfgang> i hope this change is permanent.. otherwise i'll be back.
[22:21] <wolfgang> hm.. i think i might still be back.. whatever :D
[22:21] <wolfgang> for now, i'll have to let my father sleep.. thanks very much berniv6 :)
[22:22] <berniv6> wolfgang: you probably need to configure your router not to get those settings from KD, probably by DHCP
[22:22] <wolfgang> uhmm.. will check the settings.. and change PC now.
[22:22] <wolfgang> i'll be back with my other nick in a bit.
[22:24] <Machtin> well, that's me then.
[22:24] <berniv6> Machtin = wolfgang?
[22:24] <Machtin> berniv6: exactly.
[22:24] <berniv6> okay
[22:25] <berniv6> Machtin: please complain to KD about that problem
[22:25] <Machtin> what to tell them?
[22:25] <Machtin> i mean.. how can i describe that issue?
[22:25] <berniv6> that their resolvers break when queried for AAAA records on *.search.b.superkabel.de
[22:26] <Machtin> ok
[22:26] <berniv6> if they have someone with half a brain he should be able to figure this out, but well, it's KD we're talking about
[22:26] <Machtin> agreed.. after all it's a company selling inet-connections.
[22:27] <Machtin> actually.. i could reactive ipv6 here then.
[22:29] <DanaG> I couldn't tell from that trace... what exactly "breaks" -- returns no error, but no result?
[22:29] <Milosz> that Thrace
[22:30] <Machtin> *sigh* I prefered the interface of my fritz!box.. that dlink-interface is strange.
[22:30] <berniv6> DanaG: the AAAA something.search.b.superkabel.de queries are not answered
[22:30] <Machtin> therefore it can do 5ghz and 2.4ghz parallel.
[22:31] <DanaG> ah, so it timeouts instead?
[22:31] <Machtin> the AAAAs timeout..
[22:31] <berniv6> DanaG: yep ...
[22:31] <Machtin> which takes about 15 seconds until all are timed out - per website.
[22:32] <Machtin> berniv6: any idea what "unicasting" means?
[22:32] <berniv6> DanaG: only different thing, usually when you hit this problem no AAAA records are resolvable, because the dns proxy in the router fucks up
[22:32] <berniv6> DanaG: but in this case, AAAA opera.com is answered correctly
[22:32] <ActionParsnip> hey guys,is kdebluetooth better in  jaunty than in itrepid?
[22:32] <Seeker`> berniv6: watch your language please
[22:32] <berniv6> just that his client then tries AAAA opera.com.search.b.superkabel.de, which gets forwarded to superkabel DNS servers (I guess) and times out there
[22:33] <DanaG> I'm actually using an ipv6 relay thingy for my computer.
[22:33] <berniv6> Seeker`: sorry, because the dns proxy in the router is broken :-)
[22:33] <DanaG> Router does the tunneling.
[22:33] <ActionParsnip> berniv6: could run a local dns to speed up the connectio as wl as resolve itto the right ip
[22:33] <tuxxy__> hey is hotway not included with jaunty anymore?
[22:33] <DanaG> yay, dd-wrt.
[22:34] <ActionParsnip> !info hotway jaunty
[22:34] <berniv6> ActionParsnip: doesn't help, if the queries upstream aren't answered they will time out regardless
[22:34] <Halow> +
[22:34] <marcelo> Hey guys I'm a new user of linux systems
[22:35] <hmw> marcelo: so you are trying an alpha version lol... how can we help you?
[22:35] <marcelo> I'd like to know how to solve this message
[22:36] <nemo> hmw: well, I'm planning to do a brand new install of linux later this week for someone, and I may well put them on Jaunty just I know they won't update in 4 weeks :-p
[22:36] <marcelo> could not find khelpcenter service
[22:37] <nemo> kubuntu ?
[22:37] <hmw> i dont know about that error. seems like youre using KDE. does it happen only with one application or with all helps?
[22:37] <marcelo> yes
[22:37] <Machtin> hm.
[22:37] <Machtin> i think opendns is a cool thing :)
[22:37] <berniv6> hum, not sure
[22:37] <hmw> Machtin: did you solve the thing?
[22:37] <berniv6> I don't like the nxdomain redirection
[22:37] <marcelo> it happens with kile, k3b
[22:37] <marcelo> amarok
[22:38] <Machtin> hmw: berniv6 did ;)
[22:38] <hmw> Machtin berniv6: i'd like to create a little tutorial, because so many people are asking about the ipv6 issue
[22:39] <hmw> would you like to help me with doing so?
[22:39] <DanaG> My ISP, Charter, resolves all nxdomain to this:
[22:39] <DanaG> www11.charter.net/not_found
[22:39] <DanaG> http://www11.charter.net/not_found
[22:39] <DanaG> Take a look at it, and laugh.
[22:39] <hmw> marcelo: hmm. Did it work, before?
[22:39] <berniv6> jesus christ
[22:39] <DanaG> I use my dd-wrt router (yay dnsmasq!) to bogus-nxdomain the IP.
[22:39] <marcelo> once
[22:40] <marcelo> when i was using ubuntu 8.04
[22:40] <berniv6> hmw: hum, sure, although that particular case was really special, not sure one can make a decent tutorial out of it
[22:40] <marcelo> never more after that
[22:40] <DanaG> !info hotway
[22:40] <hmw> marcelo: any idea, what changed? update, new software installed, messed around with the sys?
[22:40] <DanaG> !info hotway intrepid
[22:40] <marcelo> yes
[22:40] <tuxxy__> DanaG: its ok I got a .deb
[22:40] <marcelo> i updated my system
[22:40] <DanaG> I was just curious what "hotway" even was.
[22:40] <marcelo> ubuntu8.10
[22:41] <Machtin> hmw: wouldn't mind, just not today :)
[22:41] <hmw> aah... i meant in 9.04
[22:41] <marcelo> and now kubuntu
[22:41] <tuxxy__> well its a program my friend uses allows you to use evolution with hotmail account
[22:41] <hmw> i take it, it never worked in 9.04? marcelo
[22:41] <marcelo> I'm using kubuntu 8.10
[22:42] <hmw> marcelo: then you are in the wrong channel. this channel is for the alpha version of the coming release.
[22:42] <marcelo> ops! sorry
[22:42] <hmw> heheh
[22:42] <hmw> np
[22:43] <marcelo> thanks anyway
[22:43] <hmw> you will have better chances in getting help in #ubuntu, as there are more people. good luck!
[22:43] <marcelo> thanks!
[22:43] <marcelo> good bye
[22:44] <hmw> berniv6: i was talking about a tut for the basic thing. It's simply about getting rid of the router's ip in resolv.conf?
[22:44] <Machtin> well not actually hmw - at least not in my case
[22:44] <Machtin> i have placed the router-ip back in my resolv.conf.
[22:45] <Machtin> however, i now configured my router with two other dns-servers
[22:45] <hmw> Machtin: the open dns ones. did that speed up your resolving? (sorry, i was distracted)
[22:45] <berniv6> hmw: replacing your router ip with something like opendns is a good first test
[22:45] <hmw> okay... simple enough. thx berniv6
[22:46] <Machtin> hmw: yes.
[22:46] <hmw> great!
[22:46] <Machtin> i thought that "domain search.." line had nothing really to do with looking up a hostname..
[22:47] <hmw> gah... one year of intensively playing around with linux and i still feel like a total noob sometimes...
[22:48] <Machtin> hmw: more than one year here, and actually BEING a total noob :)
[22:48] <Machtin> well.. "intensively playing" wouldn't be correct.. i was just using it as primary os.. and din't change a lot, except alway updating.
[22:49] <Machtin> i love updates.. even if everything works fine :)
[22:49] <hmw> Machtin: if you want to learn, linux from scratch will boost your knowledge
[22:50] <Machtin> no need to atm.. i'm enough busy with studying.. *sigh*
[22:50] <Machtin> which leads me to the point where i wish you guys a good night, since I'll leave now :)
[22:50] <Machtin> thanks again!
[22:50] <Machtin> *waves*
[22:56] <blizzkid> hmmz, I was reading http://www.sharms.org/blog/2009/03/24/gwibber-on-ubuntu-jaunty/ but gwibber segfaults constantly with me
[22:57] <DanaG> hah, gotta' love Asus's DMI strings.
[22:57] <DanaG> http://www.smolts.org/reports/view_profile/To%20Be%20Filled%20By%20O.E.M
[22:57] <DanaG> To Be Filled By O.E.M. To Be Filled By O.E.M.
[22:57] <DanaG> =Þ
[22:57] <blizzkid> and constantly spawns errors like console message: file:///usr/share/gwibber/ui/themes/default/theme.html @141: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: $
[22:57] <rconan> hmm... I have no sound and System->Preferences->Sound wont run
[22:58] <blizzkid> or console message:  @22: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: setGtkConfig
[22:59] <tux_> how do I change the playback 'look' from the default one
[22:59] <tux_> if peeps know what i mean
[22:59] <tux_> in VLC
[22:59] <tux_> :/
[23:02] <Othor> tux_: so it is one window? i would like to know that too
[23:02] <HammerHead66> anyone have there Ekiga set up and want to test it out?
[23:02] <tux_> Othor, its very annoying isn't it?
[23:03] <acicula> HammerHead66: gizmodo has a sip test contact
[23:03] <Othor> tux_: yes it is
[23:04] <HammerHead66> ﻿acicula: gizmodo?  how do I contact?
[23:05] <HammerHead66> ﻿acicula: were do i look?
[23:05] <acicula> google gizmodo test contact, or look on the gizmodo site for the test call contact
[23:05] <quentusrex> What kernel is Jaunty going to use?
[23:05] <acicula> dont have it handy
[23:05] <quentusrex> Any chance it can use .29?
[23:05] <acicula> quentusrex: .28 i think
[23:05] <HammerHead66> ok thanks man
[23:05] <SwedeMike> quentusrex: 2.6.28 it has been decided.
[23:06] <quentusrex> Because if it doesn't, or a patch isn't applied it'll still have the sqlite bug
[23:06] <quentusrex> like intrepid.
[23:06] <quentusrex> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2629_benchmarks&num=4
[23:06] <SwedeMike> quentusrex: well, as stated there, you can download 2.6.29 as ppa
[23:06] <quentusrex> Hardy was 2.6.24, which didn't have the sqlite bug, but intrepid does.
[23:06] <quentusrex> is there an official ppa? for the kernel?
[23:07] <rconan> PPAs are never "official"
[23:07] <quentusrex> I mean an 'official' unofficial one?
[23:07] <quentusrex> for kernels...
[23:07] <rconan> there isn't that I'm aware of
[23:07] <quentusrex> ok, thanks.
[23:07] <SwedeMike> quentusrex: as mentioned in the second paragraph on page 1: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.24.7/
[23:08] <SwedeMike> for instance
[23:09] <quentusrex> awesome, I missed that somehow
[23:10] <rconan> not sure I'd want to run daily builds on a production system
[23:12] <mindframe> sounds likea bad idea :)
[23:12] <DanaG> wtf... why does ekiga have a "low wireless signal" icon in the lower-left?
[23:12] <quentusrex> yeah, it does.
[23:12] <DasEi> Eerm , where did /boot/grub/menu.lst went to ?
[23:13] <thewrath> i see that jaunty will not connec to wpa2 enterprise networks like in 8.10 am i correct?
[23:13] <DanaG> It also offers "Online" and "Custom me..." statuses.
[23:13] <DanaG> Custom Me?  Huh?
[23:13] <DanaG> =þ
[23:13] <DanaG> Looks pretty silly.
[23:13] <DanaG> "Do Not Dist..."
[23:13] <thewrath> can anyone confirm this?
[23:14] <rconan> I connect to PEAP WPA2 networks with intrepid
[23:14] <thewrath> how
[23:14] <rconan> is that what you mean by WPA2 entreprise
[23:14] <rconan> ?
[23:14] <thewrath> u using PEAP and MSCHAPV2?
[23:14] <rconan> yeah
[23:14] <thewrath> how the heck are you doing that
[23:15] <rconan> it just works
[23:15] <rconan> never had an issue
[23:15] <o0Chris0o> hey guys if my city isn't listed under the weather applet to add to the panel, how do I go abouts doing it myself or asking someone?
[23:16] <DanaG> Enter a numeric postal code, perhaps.
[23:16] <thewrath> hold on there was a bug for it how did you fix it
[23:16] <hmw> DasEi: huh??
[23:16] <rconan> thewrath: I don't know
[23:16] <thewrath> let me find it
[23:17] <hmw> o0Chris0o: your city might be listed in the wrong time zone. but that might be repaired already.
[23:17] <rww> So if I want to use mainline 2.6.29 in Jaunty, I should be using http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.29/ ?
[23:17] <rconan> thewrath: don't tell me :p, if I know about it it'll stop working
[23:17]  * rww feels like breaking his Jaunty install today
[23:17] <thewrath> i see
[23:18] <SwedeMike> there has been reports of network breakage with 2.6.29 on lkml, wait for 2.6.29.1
[23:18] <DanaG> too bad that PPA isn't actually a PPA REPO.
[23:18] <hmw> DasEi: what about your menu.lst?
[23:18] <rww> DanaG: i know rite
[23:19]  * DanaG goes off to buy a To Be Filled By O.E.M. To Be Filled By O.E.M.
[23:19] <DanaG> Asus seems to forget to set their DMI strings.
[23:19] <DanaG> You'll end up with a motherboard where product name and serial number and such are exactly that:
[23:19] <DanaG> To Be Filled By O.E.M.
[23:19] <dtchen> DanaG: that it's not a repo is intentional.
[23:22] <DasEi> hmw: well , I put jaunty on an extra hd, it boots fine, but when  I cd to /boot,  there is no /grub (so no menu.lst ) anymore
[23:23] <hmw> DasEi: hmm... maybe it just saw your old grub stuff and used that menu.lst? do you have a partition for /boot?
[23:24] <hmw> DasEi: investigate your paths in interactive grub menu
[23:24] <DasEi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/137093/  , hmw
[23:25] <DasEi> .. with sudo updatedb before
[23:26] <hmw> i never understood fully, how multiple linuxes work exactly with grub. there can only be one partition holding the (active) stage files, of course. my locate doesnt show content of other partitions (by default, maybe it could)
[23:26] <hmw> you could try using find over the other partitions
[23:28] <hmw> i installed ubuntu 8.10 additionally to fedora, then installed jaunty to a third partition. (all use one big / partition) my current menu.lst resides in jaunty's root file sys.
[23:28] <nemo> hmw: well, grub can read other partitions.
[23:28] <nemo> it doesn't need a linux kernel to do that
[23:29] <hmw> nemo: yes, but how does it decide, which /boot directory to use, when there are three of them?
[23:29] <nemo> hmw: the one based on the partition you set to active
[23:29] <hmw> aah
[23:29] <nemo> heck. my /boot is in a completely different partition
[23:30] <nemo> root=(hd0,0)
[23:30] <DasEi> hmw, nemo : one (another) truth is that the older grub (hardy..) caN#t read ext4, but I'm on jaunty now, so where has that gone ? I'm acting as root, so hidden files shouldn't be it or ?
[23:30] <nemo> in my case, the first partition of the first hard disc
[23:30] <nemo> DasEi: yeah. someone here claimed that ubuntu had patched in ext4 support
[23:30] <nemo> but I got crashiness (on my laptop which *doesn't* have an ext2/ext3 /boot :( :(
[23:30] <nemo> )
[23:30] <nemo> DasEi: so. I installed grub2 on that laptop
[23:31] <DasEi> nemo: solution is to use jaunty grub and put hardy in menu.lst,  but w.. has menu.lst gone ??
[23:31] <ikonia> use ext3 boot partition
[23:31] <nemo> ah. I just went with using grub2 :)
[23:31] <nemo> works well enough for me :)
[23:32] <nemo> ikonia: yeah. that's the best approach. heck. my /boot is still ext2
[23:32] <nemo> back from when ext3 wasn't that great in grub ;)
[23:32] <rww> nemo: mine too :)
[23:32] <hmw> DasEi: look on the partitions of your other systems... you might find that there... but in my case, i have to assume, jaunty set the new partition to "active" since the current menu.lst is on jaunty's partition
[23:32] <ikonia> nemo: 100 meg partition, no benifit to ext4 - more effort
[23:33] <DasEi> hmw: yeah, looked it up already, there is a boot, but no subfolder grub >:o
[23:33] <hmw> if your system boots using grub, there must be some menu.lst somewhere...!?
[23:33] <hmw> weird
[23:34] <DasEi> also sudo grub > find menu.lst / find stage1 results none ... it's a ghostboot, lol
[23:34] <DanaG> grub2 sucks in that there's NO savedefault!
[23:34] <hmw> DasEi: perhaps you forgot to mount the according partition??
[23:34] <DasEi> joining # grub now
[23:34] <Halow> It seems to only really look at the last menu.lst created (not generated, though). While I had Jaunty on one partition, Intrepid on another, Grub refused to look at Intrepid's, even when I ran "update-grub" in it.
[23:35] <hmw> DasEi: let us know, what you find out.
[23:35] <DasEi> hmw: hardly, I can choose recoverymode from boot-menu (...lst)
[23:35] <hmw> i am thinking about your menu.lst has not been moved to jaunty's partition
[23:36] <DasEi> hmw : no way, as its a beta, I disconnected all other drives before installing
[23:37] <hmw> DasEi: as grub doesnt use the kernel, that wouldnt matter, right?
[23:38] <hmw> disconnected? physically?
[23:38] <hmw> remove that boot floppy lol
[23:40] <DasEi> physically, yes, to avoid any trouble (multiple-boot)
[23:41] <thewrath> hey all
[23:41] <thewrath> does Jaunty Alpha 6 still not connect to WPA2 Enterprise networks?
[23:46] <DanaG> Anyone here know how to use a 32-bit machine to add "horsepower" for a 64-bit host with distcc?
[23:50] <RAOF> DanaG: You'd need to set up a 64bit cross-compiler environment.  That's likely to be more effort to set up than it's worth.
[23:51] <DanaG> ah.
[23:51] <DanaG> Host is 2.4GHz Montevina.
[23:51] <DanaG> er, by "host", I mean the job-giver.
[23:51] <DanaG> Whatever you call it.
[23:51] <DanaG> 32-bit one is a 1.83GHz Yonah.
[23:52] <DanaG> Perhaps considering that difference in 'horsepower', the overhead would make it not worth the effort -- good point.
[23:53]  * DanaG is going to try nouveau on a G73 (not sure what the "NV" name is).
[23:53] <RAOF> It'll be nv4x.
[23:53] <DanaG> That dual naming is REALLY annoying.
[23:53] <DanaG> At least ATI has R and RV, and that's it.
[23:53] <DanaG> No "RVxxx" == "atiYYYY"