[00:01] <mathiaz> kirkland: do you remember what's the state of acpi in jaunty? Is acpid supposed to be running?
[00:02] <mathiaz> kirkland: it seems that the jaunty installer doesn't install acpid by default anymore
[00:02] <mathiaz> kirkland: which explains why virsh shutdown vm-id doesn't work
[00:02] <kirkland> mathiaz: i have it installed on my desktop
[00:02] <kirkland> mathiaz: perhaps it got dropped as a recommends somwhere?
[00:02] <kirkland> mathiaz: and we need to re-add it to the server seed?
[00:03] <mathiaz> kirkland: IIRC there is some code in the installer that checks if /proc/acpi/ is available and if so installs acpid.
[00:03] <cjwatson> yes, in hw-detect. It only works if it's on the CD.
[00:03] <cjwatson> there was substantial conversation recently about acpid being obsoleted by other packages
[00:03] <cjwatson> slangasek might remember more
[00:04] <mathiaz> cjwatson: oh. And acpi is not the -server isos.
[00:04] <cr3> strictly speaking, what's the difference between a "package archive" and a "repository"?
[00:06] <cjwatson> cr3: do you believe that there is a difference?
[00:06] <thiebaude> i thought older packages are kept in the archive
[00:06] <cjwatson> mathiaz: acpi != acpid
[00:06] <cr3> cjwatson: not to my knowledge, but I was wondering if these were strictly synonyms or whether there might be a slight difference
[00:07] <cjwatson> thiebaude: that would be a pretty confusing term to use for Ubuntu given that it's archive.ubuntu.com
[00:07] <cjwatson> cr3: they're both somewhat fuzzy terms but I would regard them as essentially synonyms, unless perhaps there's some clarifying context
[00:07] <cr3> cjwatson: for example, maybe archive.ubuntu.com/ is the repository and maybe ubuntu/ is the archive. just thinking out loud
[00:07] <cjwatson> no
[00:07] <mathiaz> cjwatson: well - neither acpi, nor acpid is on the -server iso.
[00:07] <thiebaude> then current packages are not kept in a archive :)
[00:08] <cjwatson> thiebaude: current packages are, as it happens, kept in an archive.
[00:08] <cjwatson> "archive" and "repository" are two more-or-less synonymous terms for something you point apt at.
[00:08] <mathiaz> kirkland: I think acpid should be put back on the -server iso.
[00:09] <mathiaz> kirkland: IIUC it's an important component of the suspend/resume for server spec.
[00:09] <cjwatson> except that isn't quite accurate because you actually point apt at a single distribution and a set of components within an archive, in each sources.list line
[00:09] <cr3> cjwatson: might it make a difference when you point apt to a series (.../ubuntu jaunty main) and when you point apt to a directory (.../ubuntu ./)?
[00:09] <cjwatson> cr3: man sources.list
[00:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: yeah, i concur
[00:09] <thiebaude> cjwatson: i think i'am starting to understand
[00:10] <kirkland> mathiaz: you wanna do that?  or did you want me to?
[00:11] <mathiaz> kirkland: you can do it - I was wondering why acpi stopped working in my freshly installed jaunty kvm guests.
[00:11] <mathiaz> kirkland: you may wanna wait afte beta though.
[00:11] <cjwatson> cr3: which uses "archive" consistently for both meanings, but AFAIK you could replace "archive" with "repository" throughout and get the same meaning
[00:11] <mathiaz> kirkland: I don't think it's a beta blocker.
[00:11] <kirkland> slangasek: when would it be safe for us to add acpid back to the server-ship seed?
[00:12] <cr3> cjwatson: ok, thanks for the clarification
[00:13] <cjwatson> thiebaude: Debian has archive.debian.org, which holds archived versions of no-longer-current Debian releases. The name clash with archive.ubuntu.com is perhaps slightly unfortunate, but we were aware of it at the time and decided that it was not terribly important
[00:14] <cjwatson> thiebaude: the equivalent for Ubuntu is old-releases.ubuntu.com
[00:14] <cjwatson> and old versions of packages that weren't necessarily final versions in a given release are kept on Launchpad
[00:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: it only needs to be in server-ship, right?
[00:14] <cjwatson> Sigh. Bugs should not have a user-visible importance.
[00:14] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes
[00:15] <cjwatson> It just leads to people making irrelevant complaints about their bug having the "wrong" importance.
[00:15] <cjwatson> (I'm trolling slightly ...)
[00:27] <slangasek> kirkland: "back"?
[00:28] <slangasek> kirkland: ah, so it's available for apt-install.  Mmm, do it now and I can get it included for beta.
[00:29] <slangasek> mathiaz: ^^
[00:29] <slangasek> it's not a beta blocker, but I've just now rerolled ubuntu-server and can do so again if you want this in
[00:35] <kirkland> slangasek: committing ...
[00:36] <kirkland> mathiaz: slangasek: committed and pushed
[00:36] <kirkland> Committed revision 1449.
[00:36] <slangasek> ok
[00:37] <slangasek> starting the CD rerun
[00:37] <Laney> is notify-reboot-required still the right way to request a reboot?
[00:41] <Laney> seems so
[01:09] <TwoToneSpirit> So, if one wants to get their feet wet in Ubuntu-devel, what's the language of choice to learn?
[01:10] <ebroder> "Makefiles"
[01:12] <TwoToneSpirit> ebroder:   Was that meant for me?
[01:14] <ebroder> TwoToneSpirit: Yes, but somewhat jokingly
[01:15] <ebroder> TwoToneSpirit: Makefiles are the core of Debian/Ubuntu packages, although there are usualy several layers abstracting that away
[01:15] <ebroder> Ubuntu uses Python fairly extensively for a lot of the custom development that's done
[01:16] <TwoToneSpirit> I currently regard PHP as my primary language
[01:16] <ebroder> That being said, there are packages that use just about every language imaginable - I doubt there are many languages that wouldn't be useful
[01:16] <cjwatson> TwoToneSpirit: I find Ubuntu development is a heck of a lot easier if you're prepared to work in several different languages
[01:16] <TwoToneSpirit> I hear that Python is a natural next step from PHP for many people
[01:16] <cjwatson> people do ask this question a lot here, but there is no good answer to it
[01:16] <TwoToneSpirit> cjwatson:  Well that's why I asked about getting my feet wet :-)
[01:17] <cjwatson> Python is used a lot for many things in Ubuntu, but in order to work with packaging you'll also need the rudiments of GNU Make and the Unix shell
[01:17] <calc> i finally have all my upstream bugs linked :)
[01:17] <cjwatson> and familiarity with C, Perl, and maybe C++ is unlikely to hurt either
[01:17] <cjwatson> it's much more important to have the skill of picking up languages than it is to know any particular language, I find :)
[01:18] <cjwatson> as ebroder says, distributions are made up of a wide variety of software written in nearly every language under the sun
[01:18] <calc> aiui some languages are more evil (lisp) than others, heh
[01:18] <IntuitiveNipple> The best language to learn for packaging, is Telepathy :)
[01:18] <ebroder> Aww! I <3 lisp. Well, Scheme
[01:19] <cjwatson> there are mini-languages in Ubuntu that exist for a single purpose
[02:50] <calc> yippee, 0 new, 1 confirmed (can't test yet), and only 10 targeted bugs for 9.04 :)
[02:50] <calc> for OOo
[02:52] <TheMuso> calc: Cool.
[02:55] <calc> TheMuso: i can't believe i managed to completely catch up on triaging :)
[02:56] <Amaranth> calc: That's unpossible
[02:56]  * Amaranth files 40 more bugs targeted to 9.04
[02:56] <calc> Amaranth: :-P
[02:57]  * Amaranth thinks calc is just closing bugs
[02:58] <calc> Amaranth: nope, been working around the clock :\
[02:59] <calc> Amaranth: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport <- also shows the amount of bugs ;-)
[03:00] <Amaranth> only 426? that's not bad
[03:00] <Amaranth> and most of them are upstream, nice
[03:00] <calc> for some reason the number of bugs not triaged shows as 36 but when you click on it you can only see 35
[03:00] <calc> i wonder if one of the bugs is hidden from me for 'security' reasons
[03:01] <Amaranth> you aren't in the ubuntu-bugs team?
[03:01] <calc> yea, but even then you can't see security bugs until subscribed
[03:01] <calc> there is a higher level elite launchpad bugs access level
[03:01] <kees> calc: need me to find something?
[03:02] <calc> kees: yea look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=NEW do you see 36 bugs or 35?
[03:02] <calc> kees: upstream bug report claims there are 36 but it only shows me 35
[03:02] <Amaranth> calc: I used to be in some team that had access to security bugs
[03:02] <calc> kees: if there is something that is marked special i probably need to be subscribed to it
[03:02] <kees> calc: I see 35.  Perhaps upstream report is out of date?
[03:02] <Amaranth> thought it was ubuntu-bugs
[03:02] <calc> kees: maybe so, i thought it was always up to date
[03:03] <kees> hm, dunno
[03:03] <calc> i can see if i can find someone on the launchpad team to check it out for me
[03:04] <calc> kees: thanks for checking for me :)
[03:05] <kees> calc: sure, no problem.
[03:05] <maco> Amaranth: bug-control can see private-not-CVE bugs
[03:05] <maco> dunno about CVEs though
[03:05] <Amaranth> that was it
[03:05] <Amaranth> I stupidly let it expire
[03:05] <calc> maco: aiui bug-control can't see private bugs marked as security, not just cve bugs
[03:05] <Amaranth> along with motu
[03:06] <cjwatson> by definition private bugs are only visible to their subscribers
[03:06] <maco> oh ok
[03:06] <maco> ive never seen a security one that didnt say cve
[03:06] <calc> cjwatson: ah so it could be a bug on OOo is private that does not have bug-control or security team on it?
[03:06] <cjwatson> this is not to say that ubuntu-bugcontrol or some related team is not subscribed to some private bugs
[03:06] <maco> cjwatson: bug control can see them too to check the crash reports
[03:06] <cjwatson> calc: entirely possible
[03:07] <calc> cjwatson: you don't happen to have master access or something like that do you? :)
[03:07] <kees> private bugs are private -- only subscribers can see them.  most private bugs start their life as private security bugs, and as such, security is subscribed to them, even after they're unmarked security and only the security team can unsubscribe the security team, so we tend to be able to see any private bug.
[03:07] <cjwatson> maco: only because apport explicitly subscribes "crash bug triagers for main packages" or whatever it is to those bugs
[03:07] <kees> lag
[03:07] <cjwatson> calc: no
[03:07] <calc> cjwatson: ok
[03:07] <maco> cjwatson: ooo ok
[03:07] <cjwatson> calc: launchpad.net/~admins
[03:07] <calc> cjwatson: ok
[03:08] <cjwatson> calc: but actually if you want to know, answers.launchpad.net/malone is probably a better way to ask
[03:08] <calc> ok
[06:41] <dholbach> good morning
[06:46] <highvoltage> good morning dholbach
[06:46] <dholbach> hiya highvoltage
[06:46] <lool> morning
[06:46] <dholbach> hiya lool
[06:46] <lool> Hi dholbach, how is it going?
[06:46] <dholbach> I'm waking up - how 'bout you? :)
[06:46] <lool> It's about the opposite: I was up so I came to the computer  :-)
[06:46] <highvoltage> dholbach sometimes sounds like a lyrics generator :)
[06:47] <dholbach> highvoltage: really? I didn't know that was one of my strengths :)
[06:47] <dholbach> learn something new every day :)
[06:47] <dholbach> how are you doing highvoltage?
[06:47] <highvoltage> oh it is. I might ask you if I can use some of it one day :)
[06:50] <highvoltage> dholbach: I'm just about to finish a second big deadline that's been a denial-of-service on me for the last 2 months or so
[06:50] <highvoltage> then I can return back to a state where I can actually relax and do normal things again :)
[06:50] <highvoltage> dholbach: but it's going well thanks
[06:50] <highvoltage> dholbach: I guess I'm slightly jealous that summer is leaving us and going over to your hemisphere now :)
[06:50] <dholbach> highvoltage: slowly, very slowly - it's 2°C here
[07:04] <pitti> Good morning
[07:04] <pitti> mdz: hal-info> indeed; I commit them upstream right away, and every now and then I package a git snapshot
[07:04] <pitti> mdz: right now we are frozen anyway
[07:09] <sbeattie> does the apport-retracer process a bug if it's already been marked as a duplicate of another bug?
[07:16] <pitti> sbeattie: no, those are ignored
[07:18] <sbeattie> pitti: okay, thanks.
[07:19] <sbeattie> pitti: BTW, it'd be useful to extend apport-collect to take a crash file as an argument.
[07:20] <pitti> sbeattie: that would attach the info in the .crash file to a bug report?
[07:20] <pitti> sbeattie: I'd rather have apport-{gtk,qt,cli} do that, or a separate script
[07:21] <pitti> sbeattie: there's an existing bug report for that, too
[07:21] <sbeattie> pitti: have apport-{gtk,qt,cli} attach to an existing report rather than always create a new one?
[07:21] <pitti> something like that
[07:22] <pitti> well, I don't particularly mind which does which
[07:23] <sbeattie> pitti: sure, I'm not picky about the solution; I just dislike currently creating a duplicate bug so I can do the apport collection when I've recreated a bug on something that didn't get one to begin with for whatever reason (in this case, failure of mdadm while booting)
[08:18] <Keybuk> cjwatson: why do we now use LABEL by default?
[08:19] <slangasek> uh?
[08:19] <slangasek> setting labels, or referencing them?
[08:20] <Keybuk> I assume he means in /etc/fstab
[08:20] <Keybuk> mounting-by-LABEL instead of mounting-by-UUID
[08:22] <slangasek> I'm entirely unaware of this design decision having been revisited
[08:22] <sbeattie> Keybuk|slangasek: that reminds me, is bug 347370 actually a bug or just an expected change in hal behavior?
[08:22] <slangasek> last I knew, Debian was transitioning to also mount by UUID in squeeze
[08:22] <Keybuk> slangasek: my reference is bug #347685
[08:23] <Keybuk> Colin Watson said "Since we now use LABEL= by default if filesystem labels are set"
[08:23] <slangasek> ah, "if filesystem labels are set"
[08:23] <sbeattie> Sorry, try that again; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/347370
[08:23] <slangasek> so they're not set by default, but referenced if someone sets them, hmm
[08:24] <Keybuk> right, but the reason we never did that originally is because filesystem labels are trivial to clash
[08:24] <Keybuk> if you have two disks with LABEL=root
[08:24] <slangasek> yes
[08:24] <Keybuk> it's not just that the wrong one might be mounted
[08:24] <slangasek> I don't know why we're doing that, then
[08:24] <Keybuk> but that the one that is mounted is picked AT RANDOM
[08:24] <slangasek> but it worries me a bit less than the idea that we were doing this on all new installs
[08:24] <Keybuk> it's fine if the user uses LABEL= themselves, and puts that in fstab themselves (which is why we've always supported it)
[08:25] <Keybuk> but any automatically generated file imo should never use it
[08:25] <slangasek> sbeattie: no clue if it's expected, that's pitti's department :)
[08:25] <Keybuk> even if the filesystem has one
[08:27] <slangasek> anyway, you'll probably have to wait a few hours to get an answer from cjwatson, he was up late last night handholding a beta-critical debconf fix
[08:41] <lool> TheMuso: around still?
[08:41] <lool> TheMuso: I have an issue with pulseaudio, and I'm trying to find out who's the culprit
[08:42] <lool> TheMuso: It regularly exits with "E: cpulimit.c: Received request to terminate due to CPU overload." particularly on sites with flash; there's a wiki page on the pulseaudio wiki to debug such issues which suggest it might be driver related; http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/BrokenSoundDrivers however doesn't work for me as the proposed test case spawns pulseaudio for me
[08:43] <Nafallo> slangasek: X didn't start with the valgrind madness, so had to revert.
[08:43] <lool> In fact even "aplay" spawns pulseaudio by default when sending to hw:0; this seems to be a bug in /usr/share/alsa/pulse.conf
[08:43] <slangasek> aw
[08:43] <slangasek> Nafallo: do you have an error message?  I should fix up the recipe if it's wrong
[08:43] <slangasek> (well, otherwise I'll find out here next time my X crashes, since I've already done the same)
[08:44] <Nafallo> ==3295==
[08:44] <Nafallo> ==3295== Warning: Can't execute setuid/setgid executable: /usr/bin/X.valgrind-madness
[08:44] <Hobbsee> kirkland: oh, btw, was /home encryption with the alpha5 alternate cd supposed to work?
[08:44] <Nafallo> ==3295== Possible workaround: remove --trace-children=yes, if in effect
[08:45] <Nafallo> ==3295==
[08:45] <Nafallo> valgrind: /usr/bin/X.valgrind-madness: Permission denied
[08:45] <Nafallo> 3023 2832
[08:45] <Nafallo> giving up.
[08:45] <Nafallo> ^ slangasek
[08:45] <Nafallo> slangasek: thank god for /var/log/gdm/ :-)
[08:45] <Nafallo> s/god/kees/
[08:46] <slangasek> Nafallo: ah - should be fixable, I'll dig into that some more, thanks
[08:46] <Nafallo> :-)
[09:18] <soren> How does grub figure out on which partition to look for its configuration file? Does it have the partition ID hardwired into the stage 1.5 loader?
[09:20] <liw> soren, I believe it does
[09:23] <seb128> liw: hey, do you still work on computer-janitor?
[09:24] <liw> seb128, sure
[09:25] <seb128> liw: you seem to not be subscribed to its bugs on launchpad, could you consider the patch on bug #344704 or at least comment? the application is one of the few poorly translated in jaunty right now due to that
[09:25] <cjwatson> Keybuk: the installer now uses them if they're explicitly set (but otherwise uses UUIDs, as obviously labels aren't suitable for automatic assignment); furthermore, it will not allow you to proceed past the partitioner if you have any duplicate labels
[09:25] <liw> seb128, I am getting all its bug mail, certainly; I'll apply the patch as soon as I get around to it
[09:27] <seb128> liw: ok, launchpad is still weird to me your name is not on the list on the side of this page for example, anyway thanks for considering that one
[09:27] <seb128> liw: would be nice to get it fixed just after beta so translators have time to test it and make sure it works good and update their translations if required
[09:29] <Keybuk> cjwatson: why does it do that though?
[09:29] <Keybuk> when we originally discussed this back on Montréal, we explicitly ruled out ever writing LABEL= by default
[09:29] <cjwatson> Keybuk: because labels are a lot more readable, and if the user explicitly set some, then it's probably because they wanted to use it
[09:30] <Keybuk> since labels are most likely to be the filesystem's purpose
[09:30] <Keybuk> ie. "/" or "root" or "home" or "/home"
[09:30] <Keybuk> they are much more likely to clash if you put an extra disk in your machine
[09:30] <Keybuk> or even just a usb key
[09:30] <Keybuk> and then you end up with random mount behaviour
[09:30] <Keybuk> we agreed that if a user wanted to use a label in /etc/fstab, they could put it their themselves
[09:30] <cjwatson> sigh.
[09:30] <Keybuk> but that we would never put them there automatically
[09:30] <cjwatson> ok, I'll revert it post-beta.
[09:30] <Keybuk> thanks
[09:31] <cjwatson> and try to explain to debian-boot@ what's going on
[09:31] <cjwatson> because this was explicitly requested there upon trying to get the UUID changes into Debian
[09:31] <Keybuk> I really just think seeding mount-by-label automatically is dangerous
[09:31] <Keybuk> if I plug a usb key in, it's generally slightly more likely to win than the sata disk controller
[09:31] <Keybuk> but not always
[09:31] <Keybuk> so the random behaviour is just too much of a risk
[09:34] <cjwatson> I'd only remembered the duplicate label issue
[09:34] <seb128> TheMuso: do we really need this orca menu item? it adds a menu category for something which opens a command line tool ...
[09:34] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I think I'll add a partman/mount_by_label preseed or similar
[09:34] <cjwatson> defaulting to false
[09:35] <Keybuk> that'd be ok
[09:35] <Keybuk> I don't mind if a user takes an action to use them, then it's their fault
[09:35] <Keybuk> and when they file a bug, we can go "aha! but you did foo, so don't do that then"
[09:35] <cjwatson> do we need to unwind this for beta to avoid having to support upgraded systems?
[09:35] <Keybuk> I'd just release note it
[09:35] <cjwatson> THE RIGHT ANSWER
[09:36] <Keybuk> when did the installer start using labels?
[09:36] <cjwatson> 24 Feb
[09:37] <Keybuk> yeah, I'd just release note that - say that systems installed may use label in /etc/fstab - and that this could cause unexpected behaviour if another disk with the same label is added later
[09:37] <Keybuk> with instruction on how to find the uuid of the device
[09:37] <cjwatson> can you file a bug on partman-target and ubuntu-release-notes?
[09:38] <cjwatson> I got five hours sleep last night due to this debconf bug, and need to go and get a bit more ...
[09:38] <Keybuk> sure
[09:38] <cjwatson> thanks
[09:40] <mdz> pitti: excellent, thank you
[09:43] <TheMuso> lool: dtchen is working on this, give me a sec and I'll get you a bug numbetr.
[09:43] <TheMuso> seb128: I can address this post beta, its probably not needed there anyway. It opens a terminal because orca tries to set itself up if orca and accessibility is not set up.
[09:44] <lool> TheMuso: Ok; concerning the autostarting of pulse is it a bug or it's just me reading the description wrong?
[09:45] <TheMuso> lool: description of what?
[09:45] <lool> TheMuso: the pulse.conf machinery
[09:45] <seb128> TheMuso: ok thanks
[09:45] <lool> # PulseAudio alsa plugin configuration file to set the pulseaudio plugin as
[09:45] <lool> # default output for applications using alsa when pulseaudio is running.
[09:45] <lool> TheMuso: But what this plugin really does is to start pulseaudio if it isn't running
[09:45] <TheMuso> lool: dtchen decided to re-enable auto spawning of pulse if it wasn't running
[09:45] <TheMuso> lool: no the plugin doesn't do that, see my comment re auto spawn
[09:46] <lool> TheMuso: Well however you turn it, it's hard to avoid using pulseaudio in this case
[09:46] <TheMuso> lool: bug 343254
[09:46] <lool> TheMuso: I wanted to debug pulseaudio per the upstream instructions and couldn't until I disabled this snippet
[09:46] <TheMuso> lool: I suggest you talk to dtchen about his reasoning.
[09:46] <lool> TheMuso: Ok
[09:47] <lool> TheMuso: The bug you point at is fixed in jaunty; it's certainly not fixed for me
[09:48] <lool> Ah I guess I need new kernels
[09:48] <TheMuso> lool: hang on it may be the wrong one
[09:48] <TheMuso> ah ok
[09:48] <TheMuso> lool: I think dtchen points to test kernels in that bug
[09:48] <lool> Yes, I found these kernels in multiple ways already, ok thanks
[09:59] <mdz> lool: where are the installation instructions  for UNR?
[10:01] <lool> mdz: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook-remix/daily-live/current/ > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
[10:01] <mdz> lool: thanks
[10:01] <lool> mdz: For the installation media creation; or were you looking for instructions on running ubiquity etc.?
[10:04] <mdz> lool: imagewriter looks nice; how come it isn't in universe?
[10:05] <lool> mdz: I think at some point we wanted to merge usb-creator and imagewriter rather than having two tools
[10:05] <mdz> lool: I was looking  for the analogue of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation
[10:05] <mdz> lool: that sounds like a good idea, but if it won't happen for 9.04, I think having both in the archive would be useful
[10:05] <lool> I'll raise it with ogra then
[10:13] <\sh> something is strange regarding keyboard focus with unr cursor keys always focuses on the menu sidebar but not inside the selection...
[10:18] <apw> cjwatson, if i have a bug with a number of tasks on the wrong packages
[10:18] <apw> should i mark them invalid and make new ones, or does it make more sense to convert them to the right ones
[10:18] <Ampelbein> apw: i would just change the package assigned, not invalidating. the reason is that even if a task is invalid, the subscribers of that task still get bugmail.
[10:18] <apw> cool thanks was leaning that way too as they added no information
[10:23] <mvo> Riddell: new update-manager is uploaded
[10:28] <Keybuk> dpkg-gensymbols: warning: debian/libblkid1/DEBIAN/symbols doesn't match completely debian/libblkid1.symbols
[10:28] <Keybuk> meh
[10:28] <Keybuk> what does _that_ mean?!
[10:32] <cjwatson> apw: yeah, what he said
[10:32] <cjwatson> pitti: any idea why bug 347452 hasn't been retraced yet?
[10:32] <cjwatson> reported 16 hours ago
[10:33] <ogra> meh, no iso re-roll over night ?
[10:33] <pitti> cjwatson: the retracers got stuck, they got restarted now
[10:33] <pitti> s/now/an hour ago/ roughly
[10:33] <cjwatson> ah, thanks
[10:33] <mdz> I am officially worried about bug 328035
[10:33]  * ogra wanted to see if the kernels end up on the armel CDs ... indeed i did forget that the automatic builders are off during freeze
[10:34] <seb128> cjwatson: do you know in which package is the "Restart Now" or "Continue Testing" dialog after ubiquity install?
[10:34] <mdz> if any of you have seen an unexplained X server crash, please check the gdm logs to see if it is this bug
[10:34] <cjwatson> ogra: I can do a manual one
[10:34] <cjwatson> seb128: that's in ubiquity itself
[10:34] <ogra> cjwatson, i would really appreciate that
[10:34] <cjwatson> ogra: running
[10:34] <ogra> thanks
[10:34] <seb128> cjwatson: there is lot of strings not displayed in french there but ubiquity on launchpad seems to not have changed for ages and to be translated in french correctly
[10:35] <seb128> weird
[10:35] <seb128> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/ubiquity/+pots/ubiquity/fr/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Restart+Now
[10:35] <seb128> -> not listed
[10:35] <ogra> cjwatson, i see you and steve are both diung a full run every time, just armel would be fine ...
[10:35] <seb128> no "Restart Now" in the template apparently
[10:35] <ogra> *doing
[10:35] <cjwatson> ogra: *shrug*
[10:35] <cjwatson> ogra: I just copied and pasted it out of the crontab
[10:35]  * seb128 apt-get source ubiquity
[10:36] <ogra> ah
[10:36] <cjwatson> seb128: well, ubiquity's translations do have to be updated by hand, but let me check
[10:36] <cjwatson> I did that on 18 March
[10:36] <ogra> oh, you only do ports, i see, steve did all desktops yesterday
[10:36] <seb128> cjwatson: ubiquity has been translated 100% in french for ages, did all those strings changed recently?
[10:36] <cjwatson> just checking
[10:37] <seb128> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+sources/ubiquity/+translate indicates it didn't change since 2008-04-23
[10:37] <cjwatson> ah, yes, they did, 2009-03-02
[10:37] <cjwatson> seb128: that's the wrong place to look though
[10:37] <cjwatson> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer
[10:38] <cjwatson>   Current French:   (*) Redémarrer maintenant
[10:38] <cjwatson>                         Translated by FredBezies on 2009-03-10
[10:38] <cjwatson>                         Reviewed by Bruno Patri on 2009-03-21
[10:38] <seb128> right
[10:38] <cjwatson> so just waiting for us to suck the updated translations into the package
[10:38] <seb128> ok thanks
[10:38] <cjwatson> I'll do that again afterbeta
[10:38] <cjwatson> with extra spaces
[10:39] <seb128> I was just making sure it's only pending translations and not a bug in ubiquity or an outdated template in rosetta
[10:39] <cjwatson> seb128: the ubiquity .pot file is just the .desktop files
[10:39] <cjwatson> seb128: I'd probably better check that the current installer .pot matches the one I generate
[10:41] <IntuitiveNipple> Who would be responsible for gnome-screensaver translations? I reported to the launchpad team a couple weeks ago that over 100 translations were attributed as uploaded by me but I have nothing to do with it
[10:45] <seb128> TheMuso: there is no audio theme selected by default in the sound capplet do you know if that's a known issue with ubuntu-sounds or something?
[10:46] <TheMuso> seb128: Its the first I've heard of it actually.
[10:46] <TheMuso> I'll have a look tomorrow and get it sorted post beta.
[10:46] <seb128> thanks
[10:51] <liw> whee, out of the blue, someone e-mails me and asks if they may help develop computer-janitor
[10:51] <liw> this must be what it feels like to author successful free software
[10:55] <directhex> liw, i thought that involved making legal threats against anyone making patches for your software... or was that only a specific free software dev...
[10:57] <liw> directhex, a developer of formerly free software, even :)
[10:58] <seb128> TheMuso: bug #347537 if you need a bug number
[10:58] <directhex> liw, it's perfectly free if someone at a conference winks at you when telling you the licenses are incompatible! that's like a CONTRACT!
[10:58] <TheMuso> seb128: thanks
[10:59] <cjwatson> seb128: there were a few strings not in the template, so I'm uploading new versions now
[10:59] <seb128> cjwatson: thanks
[11:03] <mdz> cjwatson: can you offer any advice regarding bug 346589?
[11:13] <cjwatson> mdz: well, I agree with Evan. There's no point in offering a disk for partitioning when partman is going to fall over when it tries to do anything non-trivial with it.
[11:14] <cjwatson> mdz: or am I missing your point? you don't give context of your specific situation
[11:16] <cjwatson> mdz: I think it is a bit tenuous for you to say "both of the issues identified here", since the original reporter actually said that he was pleased to see a warning displayed
[11:16] <cjwatson> mdz: so if you think that part is a problem, it should definitely be a fresh bug
[11:31] <doko> mvo: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/339589 there are a lot of upgrade logs like this one. apparently /usr/share/debconf/confmodule is missing when the glibc.preinst is run
[11:36] <cjwatson> doko: I don't think that can be the case. In this case the terminal log shows debconf output
[11:36] <cjwatson> which doesn't point to /usr/share/debconf/confmodule being missing, quite the opposite ...
[11:38] <cjwatson> looks more like the dialog frontend getting used when the terminal is not really usable (i.e. will fail when you try to read from it)
[11:38] <doko> cjwatson: yes, seen now as well. the log has all the escape sequences, so it's looks rather like an upgrade with RELEASE_UPGRADE_MODE != desktop, or the debconf priority changed on the system
[11:39] <cjwatson> right, though ideally debconf ought to notice that dialog isn't usable and try something else ...
[11:55] <mvo> doko: I have no good solution for this, there is no easy way to detect if the upgrade was aborted by hand manually or if its a real error
[11:56] <mvo> doko: the user will end up with a system that has jaunty in the sources.list and no packages update, it will require manual intervention
[11:56] <doko> ok
[12:26] <lamont> Keybuk: wtf do I have to do to make a package that wants debhelper 7 survive with hardy's debhelper (6) ??
[12:28] <Laney> lamont: hardy-backports has dh7
[12:28] <lamont> not an option
[12:39]  * lamont ponders dh_prep and how to stab _that_ in the face, too
[12:46] <Keybuk> lamont: no idea
[12:46] <cjwatson> dh_prep used to be spelled dh_clean -k
[12:47] <lamont> cjwatson: yeah - man pages for the face-stabbing win
[12:47] <lamont> sed -i 's/\(debhelper *\)( *>. *7[^)]*/\1(>= 6/' ${CTL}
[12:47] <lamont> sed -i 's/dh_prep/dh_clean -k/' ${RULES}
[12:47] <lamont> somedays, I feel _dirty_
[12:56] <TomaszD> hello, if there are any Ubuntu devs around, I would like to report that the "New Broadband Connection" wizard thing is not available for translation, it's in main, but I have no idea what package provides this wizard
[12:56] <TomaszD> thus I'm asking here if anyone knows what should I report this against
[12:56] <TomaszD> networkmanager?
[12:56] <TomaszD> I'll be on and off around here, so if anyone knows just contact me
[12:56] <TomaszD> I suspected libmbca, but I'm not sure
[12:59] <Riddell> evand: auto login doesn't seem to make sense with oem install, should it be removed from the UI for oem install?
[12:59] <evand> Why doesn't it make sense?
[12:59] <evand> oh
[13:00] <evand> you mean auto login in ubiquity when in oem mode, not in oem-config, right?
[13:00] <davmor2> Riddell: it makes sense for netbooks
[13:00] <Riddell> evand: well it logs in automatically as oem but once the user is set up it still tries to log in as oem (which doesn't exist any more) and gives an error
[13:00] <evand> ah
[13:01] <Riddell> evand: right, it could be added to oem-config
[13:01] <evand> Riddell: can you file a bug for this?
[13:01] <Riddell> yep
[13:02] <davmor2> Riddell: is this in oem on Kubuntu because it has just worked twice on ubuntu :(
[13:02] <evand> thanks
[13:02] <Riddell> davmor2: yes
[13:02] <Riddell> davmor2: what happens in ubuntu?
[13:04] <davmor2> Riddell: it logs into oem fist time round but once you hit setup for enduser then reboot.  It goes to end user setup and then you get gdm login for enduser
[13:05] <Riddell> bug 347900
[13:05] <Riddell> davmor2: maybe gdm just doesn't give an error when set to autologin as a user which doesn't exist
[13:05] <cjwatson> Riddell: I think the bug is that oem-config fails to undo the autologin
[13:05] <cjwatson> not that ubiquity permits autologin
[13:06] <Riddell> cjwatson: but does that happen in gnome and kde or just in kde?
[13:08] <cjwatson> well, the way it's supposed to work is that ubiquity leaves /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc.oem behind and then oem-config simply puts that back
[13:08] <allquixotic> 2.6.29!
[13:08] <allquixotic> Woohoo!
[13:09] <cjwatson> Riddell: can I have /var/log/installer/syslog and /var/log/oem-config.log please in case there's any sign there?
[13:10] <cjwatson> Riddell: (see the disable_autologin function in /usr/sbin/oem-config if you're curious)
[13:13] <Riddell> cjwatson: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/syslog
[13:14] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/oem-config.log
[13:14] <cjwatson> Riddell: could you attach them to the bug, please?
[13:16] <Riddell> done, bug 347900
[13:16] <cjwatson> Riddell: does /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc exist?
[13:17] <cjwatson> Riddell: or indeed /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc.oem?
[13:17] <Riddell> cjwatson: /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc does, no /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc.oem
[13:17] <cjwatson> Riddell: and the former contains "AutoLoginUser=oem"?
[13:17] <Riddell> cjwatson: yes
[13:18] <cjwatson> so the question is what on earth happened to /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc.oem?
[13:18] <cjwatson> we edit /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc using sed -i.oem
[13:23] <Riddell> cjwatson: I'll do another oem install to check it ever exists
[13:39] <absabs> why ubuntu exit gsoc2009?
[13:42] <Riddell> evand: bug 347912  why does wubi have a 8.04 version?
[13:48] <mdz> cjwatson: here's the scenario:
[13:48] <cjwatson> mdz: I posted a more extensive comment to the bug
[13:48] <mdz> cjwatson: I put UNR on a USB key, put it into a netbook,  boot it up, select "Install", and when I get to the partitioning step, I see a random dialog pop up with a warning telling me something about /dev/sdb (whatever that is)
[13:49] <mdz> what it's telling me is that it won't be able to let me repartition the installation media during installation
[13:49] <mdz> I don't need to do that, and I don't need a dialog telling me so
[13:49] <cjwatson> mdz: ok. My bug comment covers that. Yes, this should be a fresh bug report.
[13:51] <cjwatson> there are other important situations that we need to handle too
[13:53] <Aquina> I searched the whole net (incl. launchpad), etc for the "/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/control"-(file not found)-problem during apt-get install, but couldn't find something useful. Has anyone an idea what this could be or ever experienced the same? I already filed a bug report.
[13:53] <mdz> cjwatson: filed bug 347916
[13:56] <cjwatson> mdz: thanks
[13:59] <cjwatson> mdz: (we've flip-flopped on this for a while, and each time we get urgent complaints from a different set of people, so I feel pretty strongly that we need to solve the whole problem now)
[14:01] <evand> Riddell: looking into it
[14:05] <mdz> ah, the mystery of 328035 is solved
[14:11] <soren> mdz: \m/
[14:12] <mdz> bryce: back over to you
[14:14] <seb128> does anybody else has computer crashes (ie blank screen no way to switch to VT or anything) happening often after user switching on intel in jaunty?
[14:14] <seb128> I can't really use the guest session or user switching due to that on jaunty and I'm not sure how to debug it
[14:14] <maco> i dont do that often, but I hit that last week
[14:16] <Riddell> cjwatson: kdmrc.oem also has AutoLogin set
[14:18] <cjwatson> Riddell: now that's odd, that suggests that it's broken in the livefs
[14:18] <cjwatson> Riddell: or ... I don't suppose you installed to an existing partition?
[14:18] <cjwatson> as in, without formatting it?
[14:18] <Riddell> cjwatson: I don't think so
[14:19] <cjwatson> the log suggests that you may have done
[14:19] <cjwatson> mind you, /etc should be cleared anyway
[14:19] <cjwatson> it's going to be ages before I can check this out myself :(
[14:19]  * cjwatson glares at rsync
[14:23]  * davmor2 pass cjwatson his make rsync work hammer
[14:24] <maco> Keybuk: that HFS detection for util-linux...you said it's in current upstream for 2.15rc. Does that mean it can go in jaunty?
[14:25] <Keybuk> maco: that kind of decision is up to slangasek or cjwatson or someone like that ;)
[14:25] <Keybuk> it's a trivial enough patch, that is already upstream, so I think there's a strong argument for a freeze exception for it
[14:25] <Keybuk> but then I'm also vaguely hoping that I might make an argument for the new upstream version itself <g>
[14:25] <cjwatson> HFS detection sounds like a bug fix to me ;-)
[14:43] <calc> tkamppeter: bug 320391, i just posted a question to you about it
[14:44] <calc> tkamppeter: basically should i be seeing full pages for each copy sent or just some code in the postscript telling the printer to print multiple times?
[14:48] <cbr> has anyone succeeded in running kernel mode setting and plymouth in ubuntu?
[14:52] <mvo> doko, could you please have a look at #347939 - pycentral says its a locally installed file, but that was a automatic install, I never touched any files manually in it
[14:54] <Keybuk> cbr: you need a later kernel than is shipped by Ubuntu
[14:54] <Keybuk> and most likely a later X server as well
[15:07] <cbr> Keybuk: i am aware of the kernel stuff, that's why i asked
[15:09] <cbr> whether it could be done at all
[15:09] <cbr> i know that you have to possibly recompile the kernel to enable KMS, since the ubuntu dev kernels don't have it
[15:10] <cbr> but dunno if it will all work after that
[15:10] <Keybuk> might do ;)
[15:10] <Keybuk> there are upstream kernel builds available from apw
[15:10] <Keybuk> try one of those
[15:11] <amitk> cbr: you can find the 2.6.29 kernel deb here -> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[15:11] <Keybuk> (you might need to change the config to get kms enabled of course)
[15:11] <amitk> cbr: you're on your own for the X.org bits though
[15:11] <cbr> amitk: i read in the forums that it has kms disabled
[15:11] <cbr> Keybuk: apw?
[15:12] <apw> apw is a person
[15:12] <ogra> s/is/pretends to be/ *g*
[15:12] <apw> the binaries are where amitk pointed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelMainlineBuilds
[15:13] <apw> i am very good at pretending
[15:13] <ogra> :)
[15:13] <jameswf> anyone know a X driver for use in a jaunty virtualbox install.. 600X800 makes for some crappy looking screen caps
[15:13] <amitk> apw: can we enable kms in those configs?
[15:15] <apw> hrm.  we are using the kernel config from the nearest release as a rule
[15:15] <apw> so i guess when karmic comes those will come with kms
[15:15] <apw> ie. 2.6.27 are made with intrepid configs, .28 with jaunty and later with karmic when it appears
[15:16] <apw> we might be able to force it on, if its switchable at boot time
[15:16] <amitk> apw: it is probably not default in 2.6.29
[15:18] <cbr> Enable modesetting on intel by default (DRM_I915_KMS) [N/y/?] (NEW)
[15:18] <apw> so my stuff will not be turning that on
[15:18] <apw> i think its on in karmic though
[15:20] <ni|> any reason trackpads are having problems in jaunty?
[15:20] <apw> yeah its on there.  so we will start building them with it on when that gets into place
[15:20] <ni|> using ubuntu for work development
[15:21] <cbr> can i use the linux-source package to change an option and then still compile my own kernel based on that source and make a .deb out of it?
[15:22] <apw> in theory yes, not ever tried to do that for a mainline build .deb tho
[15:22] <cbr> what's a mainline build?
[15:23] <cbr> no ubuntu specific patches?
[15:23] <apw> yes
[15:23] <apw> literally a mainline tag checked out and built using the ubuntu configs
[15:23] <ni|> is this the wrong channel for jaunty discussion?
[15:23] <apw> then packaged into .deb
[15:23] <Pici> ni|: #ubuntu+1
[15:23] <apw> ni|, #ubuntu+1 is probabally your first stop
[15:23] <ni|> thanks
[15:24] <cbr> apw: so what will i be missing? what do ubuntu specific patches do anyway?
[15:24] <maco> cbr: often hardware bug workarounds
[15:24] <maco> some cherry-picked patches from newer kernels to fix bugs
[15:25] <apw> what maco said
[15:25] <maco> so it might be 2.6.28 and include some bug fixes from 2.6.29
[15:25] <cbr> so nothing important
[15:25] <maco> unless you've got that hardware ;)
[15:25] <apw> important to some people, not others
[15:25] <apw> for instance you won't have aufs, so you can't make a live cd out of the kernel
[15:26] <pitti> hey kirkland
[15:26] <kirkland> pitti: yo!
[15:26] <pitti> kirkland: I did an install on my USB stick today, and then used adduser --encrypt-home
[15:26] <pitti> kirkland: very cool stuff!
[15:26] <kirkland> pitti: :-)
[15:27] <kirkland> pitti: woohoo!
[15:27] <pitti> kirkland: I have two bugs, which I'll file on LP now, and one question
[15:27] <kirkland> pitti: k
[15:27] <pitti> kirkland: I noticed that there's some stuff in /var/lib/ecryptfs/username/
[15:27] <pitti> kirkland: is it possible in any way to move them to /home/username/.ecryptfs/?
[15:27] <pitti> kirkland: to make /home self-sustained?
[15:27] <pitti> kirkland: so far I have had /home on a separate partition, and just threw away / for a reinstall
[15:28] <pitti> likewise, I could boot several OSes with sharing /home
[15:28] <pitti> having the metadata separated will break those use cases
[15:28] <kirkland> pitti: so that's a complex question
[15:28] <kirkland> pitti: basically, it comes down to this....
[15:28] <pitti> kirkland: if that's not possible for some reasons, never mind
[15:28] <pitti> just wishful thinking :)
[15:28] <kirkland> pitti: your .ecryptfs directory needs to be readable when $HOME is mounted, and when it's not
[15:28] <pitti> and I wondered whether it makes sense to write a bug report for this
[15:28] <pitti> kirkland: right, understand
[15:28] <kirkland> pitti: ecryptfs has a "passthrough" option
[15:29] <pitti> kirkland: it would need to be '"transparently" passed through the encryption
[15:29] <kirkland> pitti: but i found it buggy, unreliable, and confusing to users
[15:29] <kirkland> pitti: right
[15:29] <pitti> much like for files I add to ~/.Private on my workstation
[15:29] <kirkland> pitti: and that's what passthrough is
[15:29] <pitti> I see
[15:29] <kirkland> pitti: but there's no policy governance support for passthrough
[15:29] <pitti> kirkland: so it's possible in principle, but a matter of bugs/
[15:29] <pitti> ?
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: so ecryptfs doesn't know what to do if you want to write a new file in a directory that was passedthrough
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: is that new file encrypted, or not
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: same with if you append to an existing file
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: or delete a file, and create a new one
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: anyway, that needs to be solved in the kernel, and it's not yet
[15:30] <pitti> kirkland: I guess it'd be too evil to special-case ".ecryptfs/"?
[15:30] <apw> kirkland, how about instead of that
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: we actually considered that
[15:31] <apw> you loopback mount ~/.ecryptfs to /var/foo
[15:31] <kirkland> pitti: i think "evil" was sort of the conclusion....
[15:31] <pitti> apw: bind mount, you mean?
[15:31] <apw> and then loopback mounted an empty dir over it
[15:31] <jordi> TheMuso: ping?
[15:31] <apw> andthen mounted home over the top
[15:31] <apw> pitti, yes
[15:31] <apw> so its in there, but not
[15:31] <apw> in fact
[15:31] <jordi> TheMuso, pitti: there's a discussion in the Debian ALSA team regarding what to do about asoundconf.
[15:32] <kirkland> apw: pitti: yeah, i think persia suggested that
[15:32] <apw> what if you bind mounted out of there, then moutned your encrypted mount
[15:32] <pitti> jordi: ugh, *blows the dust away*, that still exists..
[15:32] <kirkland> apw: pitti: cjwatson challenged me to keep this to one-mount-per-user using ecryptfs
[15:32] <apw> and bind mountd the original again over the top
[15:32] <apw> oh that a shame
[15:32] <kirkland> pitti: the option I very much preferred was /home/.pitti mounted on /home/pitti
[15:32] <pitti> kirkland: one just needs to be aware that /var/lib/ecryptfs/ is part of /home now
[15:33] <jordi> TheMuso, pitti: we're getting bugs, I've noticed we don't have some fixes/additions that are present in Ubuntu packages and if we're going to keep it in Debian we really need someone from Ubuntu taking care of that part
[15:33] <kirkland> pitti: you could do this ....
[15:33] <kirkland> pitti: i agree
[15:33] <jordi> TheMuso, pitti: elimar removed it entirely from SVN, I'm holding the upload while I try to make a decision which maybe is less drastic...
[15:33] <pitti> jordi, TheMuso: do you actually think that we still need it? at least in GNOME and KDE we have much better ways to configure audio now..
[15:33] <jordi> pitti: but your reaction was funny. :)
[15:34] <pitti> jordi: I'm all for that
[15:34] <kirkland> pitti: you can move /var/lib/ecryptfs/$USER wherever you want ... just put a symlink back to that location
[15:34] <kirkland> pitti: and actually, it's just $HOME/.ecryptfs that needs to be correct
[15:34] <jordi> pitti: honestly I'd be happy to drop the python dep and get rid of it entirely
[15:34] <pitti> jordi: it might have been a good hack 5 years ago, but right now I feel that it's hopelessly outdated by all the pulseaudio stuff
[15:34] <kirkland> pitti: break the symlinks which are in *both* your mounted and unmounted $HOME/.ecryptfs
[15:34] <kirkland> pitti: and put them wherever you want
[15:34] <kirkland> pitti: such as /home/.$USER/.ecryptfs
[15:34] <pitti> kirkland: ah, so I could put it into /home/.martin?
[15:35] <jordi> pitti: nod, Debian doesn't do pulseaudio by default though. Maybe this is a good time to push it
[15:35] <pitti> kirkland: nice
[15:35] <kirkland> pitti: aboslutely
[15:35] <kirkland> pitti: in fact ....
[15:35] <pitti> jordi: eventually Debian will have to as well
[15:35] <pitti> jordi: it's more and more becoming a required GNOME component
[15:35] <bryce> mdz, whoa it was the timestamping patch?  How ironic.  Well, we had planned to disable that around beta time all along.  Cool, I'll post it today
[15:35] <jordi> pitti: how does pulse replace asoundconf
[15:35] <kirkland> pitti: mine is in /dev/sdb1, which is a pcmcia card
[15:35] <kirkland> pitti: which means that i *must* have that pcmcia card in my computer to login
[15:35] <pitti> jordi: for jaunty we jumped through some hoops to keep it halfway optional, but we can't sustain that
[15:35] <kirkland> pitti: voila!  2-factor authenttication ;-)
[15:36] <mdz> bryce: I'm not sure I agree that we should disable it; I find it extremely useful when debugging and don't see any harm in it
[15:36] <kirkland> pitti: i can step away from laptop, take my sd-card with me, and my encrypted data is not accessible ;-)
[15:36] <jordi> MDZ!
[15:36] <pitti> bryce: that relieved me a lot; nice to see it being tracked down
[15:36] <pitti> jordi: well, in the new world you don't configure alsa any more, you tell your app to which pulse sink to route its audio, etc.
[15:37] <mdz> jordi: JORDI!
[15:37] <pitti> jordi: from my POV it can be ripped out for good
[15:37] <pitti> jordi: TheMuso might have a broader opinion wrt. ubuntu studio, though
[15:37] <jordi> pitti: that's enough for me then. Thanks for the valuable input. May I mention you also are in favour of getting rid of it in the changelog's rationaler?
[15:37] <kirkland> pitti: just make sure you update both symlinks in mounted and unmounted $HOME/.ecryptfs
[15:37] <kirkland> pitti: or, just change /var/lib/ecryptfs/$USER to be a symlink too
[15:37] <pitti> jordi: absolutely
[15:37] <kirkland> pitti: actually, the latter is the easiest ;-)
[15:37] <pitti> kirkland: thanks a lot for the heads-up
[15:38] <jordi> pitti: *nod*. as ubuntu already carries a good deal of asoundconf delta, if studio needed it it can be added entirely to the buuntu diff
[15:38] <kirkland> pitti: sure... what else do you have?
[15:38] <jordi> pitti: thanks mate
[15:38] <pitti> kirkland: I don't have this setup on my workstation, just on the usb stick test install I just did
[15:38] <jordi> mdz: dude
[15:38] <jordi> mdz: I'm going to tell you something.
[15:38] <pitti> kirkland: now I have a complete workstation for carrying around on my keyring :)
[15:38] <mdz> jordi: you still don't have a title
[15:38] <pitti> 16 GB sticks rock
[15:38] <kirkland> pitti: whoa
[15:38] <pitti> kirkland: the other are just bugs, I'll file them now
[15:39] <jordi> Since July, 2005, ALL my mobile phones have been configured to show "POP THE TRUNK" on the wallpaper screen
[15:39] <kirkland> pitti: cool, thanks
[15:39] <kirkland> pitti: any chance you can help me get something into update-notifier that says "you haven't written down your passphrase yet..." on first boot?
[15:39] <jordi> mdz: not yet. I'm sense I might be getting nearer
[15:41] <pitti> kirkland: sure; can you please file a bug report with your requirements, and subscribe me? I'll handle that from there then, to keep a record of the discussion
[15:41] <kirkland> pitti: will do, thanks
[15:41] <kirkland> pitti: file against ecryptfs-utils?
[15:41] <pitti> kirkland: against ecryptfs-utils, I think (since that should ship the notification)
[15:41] <kirkland> pitti: perfect, thanks.
[15:41] <pitti> it makes most sense there, AFAICS
[15:48] <bryce> mdz, I agree it can be useful for debugging, but I'm thinking that we do more debugging during development than after release so that is when it is maximally useful.  Post-release, there is value in having it in that it makes the log less cluttery and more similar to what upstream is accustomed to.  As well, as this bug has shown, even a debug patch can have bugs in it...
[15:49] <bryce> mdz, but we can discuss retaining it if you feel strongly that we should.
[15:49] <mdz> bryce: I think we should send it upstream
[15:49] <mdz> there is at least one further bug:
[15:49] <mdz> Markers: [    0.022270] (--) probed, [    0.022288] (**) from config file, [    0.022301] (==) default setting,
[15:49] <mdz> 	[    0.022314] (++) from command line, [    0.022326] (!!) notice, [    0.022338] (II) informational,
[15:49] <mdz> 	[    0.022351] (WW) warning, [    0.022363] (EE) error, [    0.022375] (NI) not implemented, [    0.022387] (??) unknown.
[15:49] <mdz> which should be easy to fix
[15:50] <calc> tkamppeter: ping, it seems you forgot to reassign 320391 to ghostscript?
[15:50] <calc> tkamppeter: or were you doing something else first before doing that?
[15:50] <bryce> mdz, my guess is that they'll reject it
[15:50] <mdz> bryce: why?
[15:50] <mdz> most other useful log files have timestamps
[15:53] <pitti> kirkland: bug 347969 and bug 347970 FYI; I took the liberty to assing them to you, but feel free to unassign/delegate
[15:54] <bryce> mdz, I think they won't like changing the format.  Best case they might add a server flag (defaulted off) to enable it.
[15:55] <mdz> bryce: because change is bad?
[15:55] <mdz> surely X isn't quite that stodgy ;-)
[15:55] <bryce> mdz: they have their stodgy moments for sure ;-)
[15:56] <kirkland> pitti: cool, thanks
[15:56] <bryce> mdz: of course, it hurts little to try and I can do that, but just be prepared when I get flamed by daniels for it ;-)
[16:01] <bluefoxicy> apt needs to work more like emerge does on gentoo
[16:02] <bluefoxicy> it installs everything and oops, config file update
[16:02] <bluefoxicy> sticks it in .config_0000.filename or something
[16:02] <bluefoxicy> then when everything's done you run etc-update or something and it does all the "diff/replace/keep" stuff
[16:03] <bluefoxicy> apt you set to update 200 packages, leave for 8 hours, and when you come home it has 4 hours of work to do because it stopped on the third package to ask you if you want to update a confidg file or not
[16:28] <dholbach> cjwatson: were you going to merge the examples_desktop_file branch of casper?
[16:30] <cjwatson> dholbach: yes, intending to review it shortly
[16:30] <dholbach> cjwatson: super, gracias!
[16:32] <mdz> bryce: looking at the patch, I'm not surprised it had this type of bug in it
[16:32] <mdz> ++	    tmpBuf = malloc(strlen(format) + strlen(s) + 1 + 1 + 25);
[16:33] <pitti> don't waste a single byte! :-)
[16:33] <cjwatson> xasprintf!
[16:33] <mdz> bryce: even with tormod's latest changes, I don't think it's very robust
[16:33] <bryce> mdz: I agree
[16:34] <mdz> as cjwatson says
[16:34] <cjwatson> (just a shame that the x* family aren't in glibc)
[16:35] <bryce> X may already have an equivalent in there somewhere
[16:37] <tkamppeter> calc, this I wanted to do. I have done it now.
[16:37] <calc> tkamppeter: ok
[16:42] <cbr> in the mainline kernel repo.. is there anyway to do "apt-get source linux-source.." on it?
[16:42] <cbr> or is it even possible to somehow get the debian/ dir required to build the debs for it?
[16:44] <cjwatson> dholbach: looks fine, just fixing up bug statuses and such before committing
[16:46] <liw> mvo, I added a comment to #108568 -- if you have time, could you see if you agree and that we can close the bug?
[16:46] <dholbach> cjwatson: thanks a bunch - still testing example-content, but about to upload in the nxt 30m
[16:49] <cjwatson> dholbach: surely examples-content is post-beta
[16:50] <dholbach> cjwatson: alright - I'll leave that to you guys to decide
[16:51] <cjwatson> well, it would mean a CD respin now
[17:05] <davmor2> pitti: Just to let you know you fix worked for jockey on freesoftware only :)
[17:08] <pitti> davmor2: nice, thanks for testing it!
[17:11] <calc> asac: we use system cairo for building OOo
[17:11] <calc> asac: the patch that sets this up is in ooo-build not in upstream OOo
[17:12] <calc> asac: i can find the patch that is involved so you can see it via svn.gnome.org
[17:12] <asac> calc: how far is our cairo out of sync with OOO in-source one?
[17:14] <calc> asac: hmm actually i think cairo support is now in 3.0.1
[17:14] <calc> asac: looking now
[17:15] <calc> asac: the internal cairo (which we don't actually use) is cairo 1.6.4
[17:15] <calc> asac: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=85470
[17:16] <calc> asac: i believe that was the patch that was added that seems to be slightly buggy in this case
[17:23] <kees> Nafallo: er, I had something to do with /var/log/gdm?
[17:27] <calc> seb128: so we went back to not using native dpi for jaunty? (or did i misunderstand what you said in the meeting)
[17:28] <TwoToneSpirit> So, one passion of mine is adding features to the desktop environment within compiz.  For example, I'd really like to be able to have different wallpapers and icons sets on different viewports.  Where might I begin to investigate this?
[17:28] <seb128> calc: right we switched back to 96 dpi, too many applications to change to support px fonts values correctly
[17:28] <seb128> that's for next cycle
[17:31] <kirkland> pitti: do you think bug #347970 is jaunty, or karmic material?
[17:31] <maco> TwoToneSpirit: different wallpaper is already implemented in compiz, isnt it?
[17:33] <TwoToneSpirit> maco:  Sort of.  The problem is that one needs to completely disable nautilus, and thus operate with no icons.  Perhaps my quest needs to start with nautilus.
[17:33] <TwoToneSpirit> maco, et. al.:  One way or another, I want to get into devel, and I just don't know where to begin.
[17:34] <seb128> is there any reason ubuntu-devel-list gets merge requests emails?
[17:34] <cjwatson> seb128: we decided we wanted to move ubuntu-core-dev's contact address to a mailing list so that individual developers stopped being spammed by that sort of thing
[17:34] <cjwatson> seb128: we (TB) debated back and forth a bit, and ultimately ubuntu-devel seemed reasonable since it's useful for contributors to see the patch review process
[17:35] <cjwatson> seb128: if it gets too noisy we might split off a separate list or something
[17:35] <seb128> isn't that a way to say to launchpad to not email about such things nowadays or to use a virtual launchpad where you can subscribe?
[17:35] <seb128> virtual launchpad list
[17:35] <cjwatson> there's no way to tell it not to mail except by setting a contact address
[17:35] <sbeattie> pitti: is bug 347370 actually a bug, or just an expected change in behavior?
[17:35] <calc> seb128: ok, cool, i hoped we weren't reverting back permanently fixing applications is good :)
[17:35] <cjwatson> and we do want mail to be sent about merge requests, IMO, not for them to be blackholed!
[17:36] <cjwatson> we could move to lists.launchpad.net, yes. I'm not sure it's necessary yet; merge requests are pretty on-topic as ubuntu-devel goes
[17:36] <james_w> you could change the subscription settings for core-dev for each branch
[17:36] <calc> seb128: also you may already know this but for verifying things work 100% its good to test at ~ 150dpi, OOo didn't really start showing noticable problems for me until someone with a screen like that used it
[17:36] <james_w> but that is a lot of work, in addition to hiding the requests
[17:37] <calc> ~ 150 dpi can be seen on 15.4" 1920x1200 screen
[17:37] <calc> eg the ThinkPad W500
[17:37]  * calc bbl, lunch
[17:38] <seb128> cjwatson: right, fair points, we do want to now about sponsoring requests too it doesn't mean that the mailing list is the right media to collect those
[17:38] <cjwatson> seb128: is the volume really prohibitive right now?
[17:39] <seb128> cjwatson: I'm not clear what would be better but I perceive those emails on the list as noise right now
[17:39] <cjwatson> it's a lot less than sponsorship requests would be right now, I believe
[17:39] <cjwatson> and I do think it's a lot better than mailing individual developers
[17:39] <seb128> cjwatson: no, we just got 7 in a day which made me start about them
[17:39] <cjwatson> so the only alternative IMO is another list
[17:40] <seb128> it's not an issue right now but if we start using this launchpad feature often it will get noisy
[17:40] <seb128> the other alternative I see is to filter those out in the list configuration
[17:40] <seb128> and use an another way to go through the pending requests as we do for sponsoring
[17:42] <seb128> anyway it's not really a real issue for now since we don't get a lot of those
[17:45] <pitti> kirkland: 347970> it's just a bug, thus it's appropriate for jaunty; thus I'd say it depends on workload, not freeze
[17:45] <kees> Keybuk: wow, that'll be a rough feature-freeze exception.  :P
[17:45] <pitti> sbeattie: unsure; looking
[17:45] <kirkland> pitti: i'm testing the fix now
[17:46] <kirkland> pitti: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/136893/  <--- i think that's all that's needed, i'm testing it now
[17:46] <Keybuk> kees: ? :)
[17:47] <pitti> kirkland: indeed, I expected something like that
[17:47] <kees> Keybuk: your update of libblkid and all other tools
[17:47] <kirkland> pitti: that's not quite it, but i'm close
[17:47] <kirkland> pitti: ;-)
[17:47] <Keybuk> kees: I may need you to distract slangasek ;)
[17:47] <Keybuk> there's a volcano near Portland, right? :p
[17:48]  * kees adds "can cause volcano erruptions" to list of powers people think I have
[17:48] <kees> Keybuk: there is, but I'm closer to it than he is.  :)
[17:48] <kees> I suspect the river he's on the other side of may stop lava flows.
[17:49] <elmo> lava >> river
[17:49] <elmo> just sayin
[17:49] <kees> Keybuk: so, if you tested LVM-on-RAID booting, I'll try your PPA crack
[17:49] <kees> elmo: probably true, but honestly if the lava makes it all the way to portland, it's gonna be a bad time for the northern hemisphere
[17:50] <Keybuk> of *course* I tested it :D
[17:50] <maco> calling software "crack"....is this common? dtchen does it all the time and i usually roll my eyes at him
[17:50] <kees> maco: I'd never heard it before joining the Ubuntu community, but it sure seems appropriate from time to time.
[17:50] <robbiew> cjwatson: do we need to be concerned with bug 347370
[17:50] <kees> I suspect it's a Gnome-ism
[17:51] <Keybuk> robbiew: given that HAL doesn't use them for any reason I'm aware of, I don't think so
[17:51] <kees> Keybuk: btw, did you see the "RAID10 segvs mdadm" bug?
[17:51] <kirkland> maco: and we're all crack pushers, by way of "bzr push crack"
[17:51] <Keybuk> kees: no, iz not udev bug
[17:51] <punkrockguy> Hey, I'm not really sure if this is the right channel for this, but I'm a coder on the fceux project and our program, fceux, works fine on ubuntu 8.10, but does not work properly on ubuntu 9.04... Is there anyone that could help try to fix our application for 9.04?
[17:51] <kees> Keybuk: only raid10 kittens seem to have died from the incremental build changes
[17:52] <cjwatson> robbiew: it looked essentially cosmetic to me
[17:52] <Keybuk> what the hell is RAID *10* ?
[17:52] <robbiew> cjwatson: that's what I thought
[17:52] <kirkland> Keybuk: raid1 + raid0
[17:52] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I think that's actually a udev change
[17:52] <punkrockguy> The strange thing is that it works perfect on 8.04 and it does not recognize input on 9.04 even with the exact same code.. It's based on SDL however the sdl libraries are the same in 8.10 and 9.04, I really have no idea what could make it work on one and not the other
[17:52] <kees> Keybuk: it's madness.  basically, the precursor to sane LVM
[17:53] <kees> Keybuk: it's RAID1 but with RAID0 concat
[17:53] <Keybuk> cjwatson: well, libvolume-id change
[17:53] <Keybuk> Summary of changes from v129 to v130
[17:53] <Keybuk>       vol_id: always use the safe string versions for unencoded label and uuid
[17:53] <kees> punkrockguy: if it's an X-input issue, I would ask in #ubuntu-x
[17:54] <Keybuk> though that suggests its the vol_id too, not the library
[17:55] <kees> so, I now how to "hold" a package version.  how do I *block* a package?  i.e. it's in Recommends so it keeps trying to get installed, but I want to stop it from getting installed.
[17:55] <kees> s/now/know/
[17:56] <kirkland> kees: Conflicts ?
[17:56] <Keybuk> cjwatson, robbiew: Hmm, I can't see anything here that's changed in HAL or udev
[17:57] <kirkland> kees: 7.4 of http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html ?
[17:57] <kees> kirkland: well, I mean at the apt level.  I don't actually want to block it in packaging details.  I just want to set a local preference on this machien to never install nspluginwrapper.
[17:57] <kirkland> kees: is your flash madly broken too?  ie, won't install?
[17:57] <kirkland> kees: that's on my list of shit to fix after i swallow mdadm for the day
[17:58] <kees> kirkland: while I adore asac's diligence, flash is insanely unstable for me.  I use adobe's native 64bit flash, and it is 100% stable.
[17:59] <kees> so, I have a held version of flashplugin-nonfree, and I want nspluginwrapper to never be installed.
[17:59] <kirkland> kees: is that flashplugin-nonfree?
[17:59] <asac> kees: this means that 64bit is more stable than 32bit ;)
[17:59] <asac> for me its similar unstable on 32bit as its on 64bit with wrapper
[18:00] <kees> asac: their native 64bit with a wrapper is stable?
[18:00] <asac> kees: sorry 32 bit with wrapper on amd64 ;)
[18:00] <kees> asac: right, hugely unstable: 32bit with wrapper on 64bit.  for me, hugely stable: 64bit without wrapper.
[18:01] <kees> kirkland: I guess I could add a Conflicts to my flashplugin-nonfree fork: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kees/+archive/ppa
[18:02] <kirkland> kees: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/en/man5/apt_preferences.5.html
[18:02] <kirkland> kees: priorities, maybe?
[18:02] <kees> kirkland: I think I'll just add a conflict to my crazy fork.  :)
[18:03]  * calc back
[18:03] <asac> kees: just ensure in your postinst that all nspluginwrapper leftovers are removed
[18:03] <kees> asac: yeah, I did.
[18:03] <Keybuk> robbiew: jaunty udev and intrepid HAL produces Test_Disk label
[18:03] <Keybuk> so iz not udev bug, -> desktop ;)
[18:03] <asac> kees: if you removed the wrapped .so's from all the plugins dirs then it should work well and nspluginwrapper shouldnt get in your way ... even if installed
[18:05] <robbiew> heh
[18:05] <Keybuk> robbiew: I'll reassign to pitti
[18:05] <robbiew> Keybuk: okay, thnx
[18:05] <asac> kees: we are fixing nspluginwrapper to not create that kind of pollution anymore
[18:05] <kees> asac: yeah, it's not in my way, it just keeps getting reinstalled.  I do a dist-upgrade, it gets installed.  I do an autoremove, it goes away.  really odd, but I realize it's due to my crackful fork.  :)
[18:05] <asac> kees: you mean nspluginwrapper comes back?
[18:05] <asac> the package it self?
[18:05] <asac> or is it that you accidentially upgrade to the archive flashplugin-nonfree ?
[18:05] <calc> is the proper tag for regression "regression"?
[18:05] <slangasek> elmo: nah, I'm in the safe part of town where the volcano only takes out our water supply
[18:06] <pitti> kirkland: oh, did I file the bug against ecryptfs-utils? It should have gone to adduser in the first place
[18:06]  * asac wouldnt feel safe nor comfortable without water
[18:06] <kirkland> pitti: nope, you did it right
[18:06] <kees> asac: right, nspluginwrapper keeps getting reinstalled. not really sure why.
[18:06] <pitti> Keybuk: the "_" in device labels issue you mean?
[18:06] <kirkland> pitti: i didn't read closely enough :-)
[18:07] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, seems so
[18:07] <asac> kees: i would think its really that archive version gets bumped and that pulls in nspluginwrapper. otherwise its probably a bug in apt :/
[18:07] <kees> yeah
[18:08] <kees> mostly I was just curious if there was an apt way to block a package.
[18:08] <asac> kees: you can install an empty package with version 9999 ;)
[18:08] <luca> where could I find the source of the ubuntu installer?
[18:08] <asac> stupid idea, i know
[18:15] <slangasek> asac: the city limit is a 20 minute walk west, and on the other side, their water is sourced from the hills in the other direction :)
[18:17] <cjwatson> luca: well, if you hadn't left, I could have told you
[18:23] <kirkland> pitti: just a thought, but would deluser --remove-all-files be more appropriate?
[18:23] <kirkland> pitti: that option is already supported and does prune
[18:23] <cjwatson> --remove-all-files can be *really* slow
[18:25] <kees> sbeattie: erf, apparmor 2.3+1289-0ubuntu10 did not make it into the bzr tree.  fixing...
[18:26] <sbeattie> kees: thanks
[18:30] <ni|> what is the default runlevel? 3??
[18:30] <siretart> cjwatson: I've seen you've hilighted me in #ubuntu-meeting, and the topic was ffmpeg. are there some open questions left I can answer?
[18:32] <cjwatson> siretart: I think it was addressed at the time
[18:32] <cjwatson> ni|: 2
[18:32] <ni|> thanks
[18:32] <ni|> a lots :)
[18:35] <ni|> cjwatson: what is the proper room to ask how to ensure Xorg is up before an init script runs -- its for an app
[18:36] <ni|> (i know this is the wrong room sry :/)
[18:37] <cjwatson> ni|: I don't know what the correct IRC channel would be, sorry
[18:37] <ni|> alright
[18:44] <\sh> grmpf...why can't d-i tell me, "Dude, you try to partition 2.5TB while you have less then that on your storage device, pls fix your partman recipe, thx" but invane, it starts to partition the last available space with something i don't want....*grr*
[18:50] <pitti> kirkland: well, --remove-all-files should imply --remove-home, and --remove-home actually purges all the encrypted files, right? so is there anything left why the /var/lib files should be kept?
[18:50] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, FYI, I think I found out why an installation of today's image on USB caused uname to be 2.6.28-9 -- if I do usb-creator again after completely purging the stick, it doesn't boot at all
[18:51] <pitti> thus I suppose on this morning's attempt there really was the old kernel still
[18:51] <pitti> evand: have you tried/heard about successful usb-creator installations recently?
[18:51] <pitti> evand: the stick looks complete to me, but it doesn't boot at all; it worked just fine some two weeks ago
[19:02] <kirkland> pitti: and the problem with your other bug is easy too
[19:02] <kirkland> pitti: count=`ls -Al "$MOUNTPOINT" 2>/dev/null | grep -v "^total" | grep -v "^l" -c`
[19:02] <kirkland> pitti: insgesamt 8
[19:02] <pitti> kirkland: hah :)
[19:03] <pitti> kirkland: so, just set LC_MESSAGES=C ?
[19:03] <kirkland> pitti: :-)  me and my english-centered world :-P
[19:03] <pitti> kirkland: or perhaps use a more stat-like approach?
[19:03] <kirkland> pitti: i was just looking at the latter
[19:03] <pitti> or wc -l?
[19:09] <slytherin> gnome-netstatus-applet was recently demoted from recommends to suggests of gnome-applets. Should it also be removed from depends of ubuntu-desktop?
[19:12] <pitti> seb128: I guess it should, do you agree? ^
[19:14] <seb128> pitti: that's what I suggested the other day yes
[19:14] <mvo> siretart: hi! do you happen to know if faumachine can simulate bad cd burns? I would like to test various scenarios with that
[19:17] <pitti> seb128, slytherin: dropped from the seeds, next -meta rebuild will have it
[19:17] <kirkland> pitti: okay, patch attached to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecryptfs-utils/+bug/347970
[19:17] <kirkland> pitti: i've tested it and it works as designed for me
[19:17] <slytherin> pitti: Ok. Thanks.
[19:18] <kirkland> pitti: you, or someone with adduser/deluser expertise might take a look over it at this point, to make sure it's kosher
[19:18] <pitti> kirkland: cool, thanks! maybe we can fix it together with the locale one, since we can't upload right now anyway
[19:18] <pitti> kirkland: if you don't want to upload yourself, please sub ubuntu-main-sponsors, or assing to me
[19:19] <kirkland> pitti: agreed
[19:19] <kirkland> pitti: i'm taking a look at the locale one too
[19:19] <kirkland> pitti: well, those are uploads to two different packages
[19:19] <pitti> kirkland: ah, ok; the locale one indeed is in ecryptfs itself then?
[19:20] <kirkland> pitti: yeah, definitely
[19:20] <kirkland> pitti: okay, assigned 347970 to you
[19:20] <kirkland> pitti: review the debdiff, test, and upload at your discretion
[19:20] <pitti> thanks
[19:21] <kirkland> pitti: how do i turn my term into german?
[19:21] <kirkland> pitti: export LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 isn't quite doing it
[19:22] <pitti> kirkland: sudo locale-gen de_DE.UTF-8
[19:22] <kirkland> oh, i bet i need the language pack or something
[19:22] <pitti> kirkland: or install the langpack, yes (which will do that)
[19:22] <pitti> kirkland: then LANG= will work
[19:22] <kirkland> pitti: hmm, that's not quite it
[19:22] <kirkland> pitti: does it take a logout?
[19:22] <siretart> mvo: yes, there was a master thesis that implemented a cdburner. but you would need to ask sistpoty about its status
[19:23] <siretart> mvo: is faumachine already in the archive?
[19:23] <pitti> kirkland: no, it just works
[19:23] <siretart> (I believe sistpoty was the supervisor of that thesis)
[19:23] <pitti> kirkland: sudo LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 adduser ... will work
[19:23] <pitti> kirkland: that sets it just for one command
[19:23] <kirkland> pitti: k
[19:23] <pitti> kirkland: you need to have the locale generated, though
[19:23] <kirkland> pitti: did that
[19:23] <pitti> ah, hang on
[19:24] <pitti> kirkland: indeed you need language-pack-de
[19:24] <pitti> kirkland: since otherwise you can't get any actual translation :)
[19:24] <kirkland> :-)
[19:24]  * kirkland foobars his system with german nonsense
[19:24] <kirkland> :-P
[19:26] <kirkland> pitti: cool, now I have insgesamt 768
[19:26] <kirkland> hehe
[19:26] <mvo> siretart: I think it was added some days ago, but I might be wrong
[19:27] <siretart> mvo: cool!
[19:27] <mvo> ogra: who should I bug aobut moddle? it appears to be hanging with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive in my upgrade test
[19:27] <siretart> mvo: it will be a great asset for the qa team, e.g. for simulating live cd installs
[19:27] <pitti> kirkland: sehr gut!
[19:28] <ogra>  mvo hmm LaserJock did some work on it
[19:28] <mvo> siretart: yeah, I would like to simulate a upgrade with a bad CD
[19:28] <ogra> i didnt touch it since about a year
[19:28] <mvo> ogra: ok, thanks
[19:29] <kirkland> pitti: i think this will get me what I need: ls -Al | egrep "^[drwx-]{10}"
[19:29] <siretart> mvo: oh, that means that you don't actually need the burner, but just the regular faumachine cd drive. I think fault injection should work just fine there, but as said, better ask sistpoty to check that
[19:29] <kirkland> pitti: thank goodness file perm chars aren't translated :-P
[19:30] <siretart> mvo: if not, I'm sure he can implement that easily. after all, his phd work is about the faumachine vhdl compiler :-)
[19:30] <pitti> kirkland: OMGno :)
[19:30] <kirkland> pitti: seriously?  or joking?
[19:31] <pitti> kirkland: if they were translated, madness would start
[19:31] <kirkland> pitti: heh, okay :-)
[19:31] <kirkland> pitti: i thought you were hating on my egrep
[19:32] <lamont> stgraber: around?
[19:32] <lamont> stgraber: --> /pm
[19:36] <mvo> siretart: heh :) ok - thanks, I will try to catch him when he is online
[19:36] <kirkland> pitti: woohoo!  fixed.
[19:36] <kirkland> pitti: i'll commit to upstream bzr, and upload ecryptfs-utils 73-0ubuntu2 when the freeze ends ;-)
[19:36] <slytherin> seb128: did you get any time to do the DVD playback testing?
[19:37] <pitti> kirkland: yay you
[19:38] <kirkland> pitti: i needed some 'success' today, after many, many hours/days fighting with mdadm
[19:38] <seb128> slytherin: it works now on my desktop and laptop using severals DVDs with the jaunty versions
[19:39] <slytherin> seb128: Ok. It fails for me with 5-6 DVDs I tried.
[19:39] <seb128> weird
[19:39] <slytherin> seb128: do the DVDs you tried have menus?
[19:39] <seb128> yes
[19:40] <seb128> menus worked
[19:40] <seb128> to select chapters or audio tracks
[19:40] <cbr> damn.. enabling KMS just blanks the screen on boot
[19:40] <seb128> or episodes
[19:40] <cbr> it boots, when i presume that X starts, the backlight lights up, but nothing is on the screen
[19:41] <slytherin> seb128: so what do you suggest? I have got one response on the bug that the repository package does not work and my fixed package works.
[19:41] <seb128> slytherin: I don't suggest anything so far out of doing a call for testing on jaunty beta
[19:41] <seb128> ie send an email on -discuss list for example
[19:41] <seb128> and ask if dvd playing works for people after installing what is required
[19:42] <kees> Keybuk: fail.
[19:42] <slytherin> seb128: Ok. I will send a mail.
[19:42] <seb128> as said it was broken for me
[19:42] <kees> Keybuk: blkid ran away at 100% cpus, for like 12 instances.  udev did not start my RAID (but did start LVM once I brought the RAID up)
[19:42] <seb128> and now it works on 2 boxes
[19:42] <slytherin> hmm
[19:42] <seb128> so I'm not sure what fixed it there but I can't debug if I don't get the bug
[19:43] <kees> Keybuk: hardward loading stalled (I assume because of all the stuck blkids, udevsettle never returned)
[19:43] <slytherin> right.
[19:43] <kees> s/hardward/hardware/
[19:49] <slytherin> seb128: last really silly question. I am assuming that you gave gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad installed and resindvd plugin is getting used, correct?
[19:49] <seb128> yes and I think so
[19:58] <slangasek> TheMuso: ubuntustudio apparently has some uninstallable packages on the latest ISO, which weren't uninstallable before (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20090324/report.html), do you know what that's about?
[19:59] <ebroder> mvo: Question about your fix for bug #147080. Will the AllowThirdParty option work for the Intrepid->Jaunty upgrade? Or just Jaunty->Karmic, etc?
[20:00] <mvo> ebroder: that should work with intrepid->jaunty
[20:00] <ebroder> Awesome. Thanks again for putting that together
[20:00] <mvo> ebroder: have you tested it, is there a problem?
[20:01] <ebroder> mvo: No, I haven't had a change to test it yet. I don't understand the upgrade process very well, so I couldn't tell from inspection if it would work for this upgrade or not
[20:01] <mvo> ebroder: cheers, no problem. just keep me updated if it works as expected (it should, did fine in my tests :)
[20:01] <mvo> Riddell: I'm doing a kubuntu hardy->jaunty upgrade now, what version of adept do I need for this to work?
[20:09] <cbr> -rw-r----- 1 syslog adm  232M 2009-03-24 21:49 messages
[20:09] <cbr> why is my /var/log/messages file 2.3 million lines long?
[20:10] <slytherin> cbr: where does it say 2.3 million lines long?
[20:10] <cbr> when i open it in kwrite or nano
[20:11] <cbr> $ cat messages | wc -l
[20:11] <cbr> 2360777
[20:11] <cbr> shouldn't it be split and compressed or smth?
[20:11] <slytherin> cbr: wc -l works with filename directly. looks like some problem with log rotation.
[20:11] <cbr> also user.log is 213 MB
[20:14] <cbr> and syslog is 256MB
[20:15] <Nafallo> kees: glibc backtraces to that log. the changelog blames you :-)
[20:16] <kees> Nafallo: ah! yes, very muchly.  I was getting sick of losing backtraces to vt7.  :)
[20:18] <Riddell> mvo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JauntyUpgrades/Kubuntu/8.04
[20:19] <Riddell> mvo: the prompt in adept will only work for meta-release not meta-release-devel so cludgy script for beta I'm afraid
[20:20] <mvo> Riddell: ok, thanks
[20:27] <kirkland> pitti: okay, i give up ... how do i anglicize my system again?  :-)
[20:28] <jameswf> jaunty video working in virtualbox soooo happy
[20:30] <slangasek> kirkland: just how un-English did you make it? :)
[20:30] <bryce> jameswf: first you must kick the vikings out....
[20:30] <kirkland> slangasek: German :-)
[20:31] <bryce> er, s/jameswf/kirkland/
[20:31] <kirkland> bryce: hehe
[20:32] <slangasek> kirkland: what did you change to get it into German?
[20:32] <kirkland> bryce: i'm still working on the visigoths
[20:32] <kirkland> sladen: LOCALE and LANG
[20:32] <kirkland> slangasek: ^
[20:33] <kirkland> slangasek: and i ran some locale-gen
[20:34] <slangasek> "LOCALE"?
[20:34] <slangasek> ENOVAR
[20:34] <kirkland> ah
[20:34] <kirkland> apt-get remove language-pack-de
[20:37] <slangasek> that'll do it implicitly, yes :)
[20:38] <cjwatson> kirkland: just putting LANG back the way it was is sufficient
[20:38] <cjwatson> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
[20:38]  * slangasek nods
[20:38] <cjwatson> assuming you didn't change LC_thingy
[20:38] <cjwatson> or LANGUAGE
[20:39] <kirkland> thx
[20:58] <evand> pitti: hrm, I'll look into it tonight if I can find some time, otherwise definitely tomorrow.  Thanks for the heads up.
[21:12] <TheMuso> slangasek: on my agenda for this morning. They were installable a day or so ago...
[21:22] <slangasek> TheMuso: it's the fact that lmms recommends: wine but wine isn't on the ISO; Recommends are expected to be pulled in by default
[21:24] <TheMuso> slangasek: ah!
[21:24] <slangasek> at least, that's the problem I see from here
[21:25] <TheMuso> I'll check that locally
[21:27] <BlackLukes> is there anyone who is an active developer of ubiquity (or at least knows it quite well)?
[21:32] <sladen> BlackLukes: yes, but they probably finished work a few hours ago.  Perhaps if you asked what your question/query was you might get somebody else who can help
[21:33] <BlackLukes> my question is about the code used for the partition bar
[21:35] <BlackLukes> anyone who would help me please email at luca.91 at hotmail.it, I'm leaving
[21:35] <slangasek> that's still a metaquestion, not a question. :)
[21:35] <BlackLukes> maybe I can explain tomorrow, sorry
[21:45] <bredoto> hia
[21:46] <bredoto> Need help. How can i make  proper configure file for my sources?
[21:50] <bredoto> hm anyone
[21:50] <Snova> What is this for? A personal project, something you're packaging, something else?
[21:50] <Snova> Also, this isn't really the proper channel, join #ubuntu-programming
[21:51] <bredoto> personal project. And what is the structure of configure file?
[21:51] <Snova> They're shell scripts.
[21:52] <sladen> it's a shell script, generated by autotools
[21:52] <Snova> Worse yet, they're auto-generated shell scripts, produced from macros (M4, to be precise).
[21:52] <sladen> Snova: TBH, you probably don't need one
[21:52] <sladen> Snova: just make a normal Makefile by hand
[21:53] <Snova> A configure script? Not while I can help it. :) Quick! While you still can! Learn CMake. ;)
[21:54] <bredoto> does anybody know some tutorials or other source
[21:55] <Snova> This might be good (for Autotools): http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/
[21:55] <Snova> Maybe. Just the first thing I found.
[21:57] <bredoto> thnks
[21:57] <bredoto> =|
[22:01] <bredoto> Lets image that i have source file of my progrm: myp.c What is the next step for preparing configure file? Just create  configure file  with "gcc -c myp.c and cp a.out /usr/bin/myp "commands?
[22:02] <Snova> No, configure doesn't build anything.
[22:02] <Snova> You need a configure.ac file, which doesn't have to be long, just initialize Autotools and test for a compiler, then generate a Makefile. (Not sure *exactly* how)
[22:04] <Snova> Then you need a Makefile.am that specifies what to compile, and to what.
[22:04] <Snova> Then there are various programs that generate more files from those two (there might even be another file or so you have to write, don't think so though).
[22:05] <bredoto> Snova, thank this is my first step =) iam just a beginner (dummy=)
[22:05] <Snova> Dang. Sorry about that (again).
[22:06] <slangasek> kees: full nvclock MIR available now, bug #347813
[22:06] <Snova> Honestly, I find Autotools to be a gigantic mess. You'd probably be a lot better suited learning something like CMake (I'm partial to SCons, but it might not be quite as good for you).
[22:06] <slangasek> kees: (if you want it :)
[22:07] <Snova> bredoto: http://www.cmake.org/
[22:07] <slangasek> Snova, bredoto: could you please take that discussion elsewhere?  As you noted, it's not really on-topic for #ubuntu-devel
[22:07] <Snova> bredoto: Only *one* file you have to write, and it's a *lot* simpler.
[22:07] <Snova> bredoto: Yes, please join #ubuntu-programming
[22:11] <cjwatson> Snova: cmake: thorough nightmare the last time I had to modify anything written using it (admittedly that was Qt)
[22:13] <kees> slangasek: I'll likely get to it tomorrow unless you need it rushed?
[22:13] <slangasek> no rush
[22:13] <slangasek> it's not going in pre-beta, smartdimmer is on the CDs
[22:17] <ed___> hi
[22:23] <TheMuso> slangasek: ok weird. Dispite what the report says, lmms and ubuntustudio-audio install fine with a fresh amd64 disk as of the latest daily. The wine package is kept from the disks by blacklisting, but things install as expected on the disk.
[22:24] <slangasek> TheMuso: eh, why are you using blacklists for this?  that's a Very Large Hammer
[22:24] <slangasek> TheMuso: also, we don't want installing from the archive and installing from ISO to give a different experience...
[22:25] <TheMuso> slangasek: Right, I guess the best approach then is to demote wine to suggests for lmms and fix the seeds
[22:25] <slangasek> TheMuso: that would be my recommendation
[22:25] <TheMuso> ok I'll take care of that now.
[22:32] <TheMuso> slangasek: ok lmms uploaded, pushing the change to the seeds now as well.
[22:32] <slangasek> thanks
[22:37] <cjwatson> Riddell: I'll look at your oem-config autologin bug tomorrow - fetching the CD now
[22:38] <Riddell> cjwatson: thanks
[23:01] <mdz_> bryce: just in case I wasn't clear...I don't want to block fixing 328035 on getting the patch fixed up; please feel free to rip it out and stop the pain while we discuss what to do after that
[23:02] <kees> can we deprecate python's "commands" module, please?
[23:03] <slangasek> mdz_: the fixed xorg-server is already in the beta freeze queue; I'm taking it as an opportunistic fix for beta if something else goes wrong in testing
[23:03] <mdz_> slangasek: great, thanks
[23:04] <mdz_> I didn't see the bug updated and so didn't realize
[23:04] <slangasek> I'm still kicking myself for not having checked debian/patches when I looked at that logging code
[23:04] <slangasek> sticks out like a sore thumb, *if* you're looking at the right code :)
[23:07] <mdz_> slangasek: yeah, likewise
[23:07] <mdz_> I squinted at LogVMessageVerb a bit but it was the unpatched version
[23:08]  * mdz_ goes to bed
[23:08] <maxb> I sent email to rt@ubuntu.com complaining about paste.ubuntu.com rejecting pastes containing xml declarations back on 30th January, but nothing's happened. Where can I nag?
[23:27] <slangasek> ScottK-desktop: what should we say about Kubuntu in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/BetaAnnouncement ?
[23:28] <slangasek> TheMuso: ^^ same question for UbuntuStudio
[23:28] <slangasek> cody-somerville: ^^ same question for xubuntu
[23:28] <slangasek> superm1: ^^ same question for mythbuntu
[23:28] <slangasek> :-)
[23:32] <cody-somerville> slangasek, is it suppose to be line breaked like that?
[23:32] <slangasek> it's a mail draft, so yes
[23:35] <bryce> mdz: yep, 328035 already has the patch ripped out; just didn't make it for -beta unfortunately
[23:41] <TheMuso> slangasek: sorry made a typo with the lmms control changes, did a copy and paste, and thought I copied a bracket, but didn't. Uploading a fix now.
[23:42] <slangasek> ack
[23:46] <mthaddon> wgrant: can you take a look at bug 335492 - you seemed to be the last to touch the package and just wanted to run my changes by you as I'm kind of new to this
[23:47] <mthaddon> hmm, I assume that means you can't see the bug...
[23:49] <wgrant> mthaddon: I might be able to.
[23:49] <wgrant> Let's see.
[23:49] <wgrant> I can.
[23:49] <mthaddon> cool
[23:49] <wgrant> Because I'm in ~ubuntu-dev.
[23:49] <mthaddon> :)
[23:50] <wgrant> mthaddon: That debdiff looks fine.
[23:50] <mthaddon> wgrant: so what's the process for getting the package updated?
[23:50] <wgrant> mthaddon: Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.
[23:50]  * wgrant finds the wiki page.
[23:51] <wgrant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[23:51] <mthaddon> thx