[02:07] Hey [02:08] I am wondering who I should contact regarding usability/ux projects/efforts in ubuntu? [07:27] Good morning [07:51] asac: ah, I think I identified the culprit: it seems to happen while trying to apply patches to generate the sourceful stack trace; debian/rules setup seems to trigger starting xulrunner [07:52] is the retracer running again (I guess it takes a bit of time to catch up again). bug #347602 is why I ask [07:52] Launchpad bug 347602 in update-manager "update-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in debPackagesIndex::FindInCache()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347602 [07:53] mvo: it got stuck again [07:53] mvo: I just killed them, and will now work around it by disabling sourceful stack traces [07:54] thanks pitti [08:22] Any chance I could get someone to take a look at a small pet bug for my dad? (It's the last thing keeping him from using OOo apparently.) He filed a report at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/openoffice/+bug/275676 [08:22] Ubuntu bug 275676 in openoffice "[upstream] date text in autofilter header is pushed out by pulldown arrow" [Unknown,Confirmed] [08:26] pitti: huh? [08:26] pitti: isnt it just ".postinst"? [08:26] we run xulrunner --gre-version [08:27] asac: haven't looked at the package yet, just applied the workaround for now (disabling sourceful stack trace) [08:27] asac: I'll try to get back to this in the afternoon and take a closer look [08:27] pitti: well. if its the same issue from yesterday i can confirm that simply installing xulrunner-1.9.1 in fakechroot hangs [08:28] ah, okay [08:28] asac: I have a handful of such cases, I usually just dpkg-divert them away and replace them with a no-op shell script [08:29] oh so xulrunner isnt alone? thats good to know ;) [08:29] its the postinst you would need to prevent somehow i guess [08:30] asac: gconf-schemas and polkit-auth also give trouble, yes [08:30] and ucf [08:31] asac: as long as the number of affected programs is so small, it's easier to divert them away than trying to fix fakechroot for each and every corner case [08:32] pitti: thats good. as long as that doesnt mean we wont get backtraces for xul 1.9.1 at least [09:05] good morning there [09:05] pitti: hello [09:06] good morning seb128 :) [09:06] lut didrocks [09:06] seb128: are you enjoying being in UK? [09:06] bonjour seb128 [09:06] didrocks: yes, being in London and at the canonical office is always nice ;-) [09:06] hi pitti [09:06] seb128: great! ;) [09:10] pitti: did you read the xulrunner discussion yesterday? [09:10] seb128: yes; I think it hung on the "get sourceful stacktrace" step, when trying to apply patches [09:11] pitti: hum, what we figured with asac is that it hangs on the xulrunner --gre-version [09:11] seb128: I disabled that for now and restarted them [09:11] ok that was my question [09:11] thanks [09:11] I close IRC and went to the pub just after asac suggested that [09:12] so I didn't know what happened next [09:12] pitti: so you disabled xulrunner-1.9.1? [09:12] * seb128 hugs pitti [09:12] let's see how it goes [09:12] seb128: I'll look into a more proper workaround this afternoon [09:12] seb128: I think I can just dpkg-divert the xulrunner binary [09:12] i just want to know if there is action required from my side if i want to get backtraces for xul 1.9.1 or not ;) [09:12] asac: not yet, working on some other stuff still [09:13] ok let me know. we can probably eliminate the xulrunner --gre-version invocation if thats needed. [09:13] asac: you should get them again [09:17] it shouldn't run the postinst in the first place [09:19] ah ok. [09:23] hello [09:24] hi crevette [09:24] hey asac [09:40] is there a "advanced new bug" page or something for bgo where i can do everything on one page? [09:41] hmm i cant find gtkhtml3 in bgo [09:42] asac: it's gtkhtml there [09:42] asac: and what do you mean, there is everything on the same page in bgo [09:42] asac: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gtkhtml [09:42] I guess you opened the simple form ui rather than this one [09:43] no? [09:43] seb128: could be ... i didnt expect that simple form is decided on first page ... let me check [09:43] i am blind yeah [09:43] still odd that i only could find gtkhtml2 on the simple form ;) [09:43] asac: it's written (simple form), did you click there? ;-) [09:44] seb128: its not even on this page: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi [09:44] only gtkhtml2 [09:44] asac: it's listed there [09:44] seb128: i clicked on "New bug" on the top ;) [09:44] asac: GtkHtml [09:44] in the desktop section [09:44] sigh [09:44] " GNOME's lightweight engine for the rendering, printing and editing of HTML." [09:44] * asac puts new eyes on his wishlist [09:44] asac: you should get some coffee ;-) [09:50] seb128: so is gtkhtml we have mostly trunk or i should i look if the patch is relevant on trunk before submitting? [09:53] re [09:53] asac: we have mostly trunk, ie the tarball is a week old and they are not that active on it [09:54] ouch [09:54] a new brain too. [09:54] * crevette wishes gtkhtml will be replaced by something better (webkit) [09:57] right i have to check webkit too [09:57] what is using webkit? [10:02] asac, some projects are migrtating like lifearea [10:03] some Novell developer involved in evolution are rewriting a lightweight mail client for small form factor called anjal using webkit too [10:04] asac, http://blogs.gnome.org/sragavan/2009/03/18/announcing-anjal-the-new-mail-for-netbooks/ [10:07] crevette: it's not a rewrite, it's a new UI but it's still using evolution [10:08] seb128_, yeah it on top on eveolution [10:11] crevette, there is a devhelp branch using webkit as well [10:12] asac: did you consider webkit 1.1 for jaunty btw? [10:12] hey andreasn, [10:12] andreasn, I was searching the one which were switch from gtjhtml to webkit, devhelp use moz I guess [10:12] yes, it does [10:15] asac, the patch in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576694 seems broken [10:15] Gnome bug 576694 in Miscellaneous "evolution treats some pixelsized fonts as point sized" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [10:16] s/broken/not a patch/ [10:17] it's a patch with noise too ;-) [10:18] pitti: what is the best way to debug http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/Fehler.png ? [10:18] mvo: f-spot remembers the previously used directory and selects it by default; if it doesn't exist, it brings up that error message [10:19] mvo: it should just check if it doesn't exist any more, and silently select the default folder instead IMHO [10:19] pitti: this was a fresh instrepid install with upgrade [10:19] pitti: ok, I can have a look at the code [10:19] crevette: thanks indeed [10:19] mvo: if you find a bug, I heard that robert_ancell is interested in the mono stack [10:19] mvo: LP bug report, I mean [10:20] asac, you're welcome I'm so bored at work I read patch incoming for gnome :/ [10:20] * robert_ancell regrets this already... [10:20] crevette: you could triage bugs ;-) [10:20] I could ... but this is much work [10:20] crevette: thats indeed interesting ;) [10:20] robert_ancell: cowtrading season is open [10:20] dont let your boss find the channel log [10:23] we need text file preview in gtk file selector ;) [10:23] pitti: who wants to trade when you can give things away? ;-) [10:23] asac, I'm not a slacker I do some work though === seb128_ is now known as seb128 [10:23] crevette: you could triage bugs! [10:23] and prove you are not slacking ;-) [10:25] seb128, it was about my day work, but i'm not slacking for ubuntu, I raise my karma from 1000 to 5000 damn it !! [10:25] :) [10:26] good work ;-) [10:26] it's nice that you work on the bluetooth satck [10:26] stack [10:26] yeah, I'm not that happy, I don't understand that much bluetooth [10:27] good chance to learn ;-) [10:29] yeah :/ [10:31] crevette: I'm sure seb128 will be delighted if you put some work on Compiz as well :p [10:32] I don't use compiz and I don't wanna have to learn what it is [10:32] :) [10:32] :) [10:33] didrocks: ok, you can get compiz if you really insist! [10:34] seb128: let's say I'm not using it too ;) And I know that you are so eager to maintain the associated package that it will be a crime to remove this pleasure to you :) [10:35] seb128: and first, I'm going deeper in GNOME technology first :) reading http://library.gnome.org/devel [10:35] didrocks, and not being cano I can easily refuse any assignment on compiz :) [10:36] crevette: yeah, no tag to push for us ;) [10:36] please note that compiz has a very responsive upstream [10:37] pitti: I think it's not a problem of responsive upstream, but more to go deep in the code, managing graphics layers, etc. I think that getting into the code might be more than time-consuming [10:38] it's a really good piece of work, but I don't know how new people easily can get into it [10:38] didrocks: I don't think that mvo did much hacking on the code iself either [10:39] don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to push the package on you [10:39] but from my perspective it seems that maintaining compiz is more a "keep good relations to upstream" and "do good bug triage" problem than hacking on the code yourself [10:39] mvo: ^ what are your experiences so far? [10:39] mvo: i. e. what would you hand out as a 'job description'? [10:40] yeah, I think that having mvo point of view is the right way :) [10:40] ok, I already asked that before [10:40] but where would you put a list of packages <-> usual maintainer [10:41] pitti: yes, that is a good description, preparing updates, keep an eye on the git tree and be nice to upstream (they are always very nice to us) [10:41] I was thinking desktop-bugs or ubuntu-desktop team bzr on launchpad [10:41] seb128: you want to keep that as a static list? [10:41] I'm open to suggestions [10:42] seb128: or something like "set of uploaders of last 10 uploads"? [10:42] what I see is a list of packages the team maintain [10:42] and who is usually doing updates [10:42] I don't mind doing updates, compiz is fun really, the problem is that I suck at bug triage [10:42] ie if somebody usually does ask him or her before starting on an update [10:43] I'm usually doing the gvfs and nautilus updates for example because I track upstream changes closely etc [10:43] hmm ... is there a way for me to grep through the full gnome svn ? [10:43] so I don't want somebody to jump on those because I'm not around [10:43] seb128: my initial gut feeling is that this could just be a dynamic list [10:43] but nobody is working actively on, let's say gucharmap and that is free to claim by contributors [10:43] ie first to come = first served [10:44] seb128: ah, I see; so for gucharmap the changelog scanning wouldn't say "free for all" [10:44] seb128: how about setting Maintainer to seb128@ubuntu.com for those packages that you care really hard about [10:44] ;) [10:44] and for the others, ubuntu-desktop@ [10:44] yes. [10:44] I saw that in some packages already [10:45] well at lesat mozillateam sets it to mozillateam to indicate that folks should talk to us first before touching. [10:45] so if ubuntu-desktop is too broad you can narrow it down by your own name [10:45] asac: well what we do know is that I dispatch updates on IRC [10:46] but I'm not always around and I don't want to block work [10:46] and it would be better to have a public list of what is being worked by who [10:46] yeah. thats a workflow system ;) [10:46] you could auto create a batch of Needs packaging bugs [10:46] when tarballs get rolled upstrream [10:46] and then use the assignee notion [10:48] right, I don't fancy opening 70 bugs every new GNOME week [10:48] it's lot of "paper work" [10:48] and waiting on launchpad [10:48] seb128, back to bluetooth, the problem is bluez doesn't have a BTS which is really boring [10:50] seb128: autocreating bugs would be ok though? or even too heavy weight? [10:51] it feels like lot of paper work to me [10:51] we could have a table which lists upstream versions and current jaunty ones [10:51] seb128: what about a social solution to just tell every contributor to check the changelog and Maintainer: field first? [10:51] and say that anybody is free to claim anything not update [10:51] seb128: http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/PkgList/versions_current.html is pretty neat [10:51] so we would move the maintainer info to individuals? [10:52] so you want merge-o-matic for upstream with work assignment feature ;) [10:52] pitti: right, something around those lines [10:52] asac: not really mergo-o-matic is about producing diffs no? [10:53] asac: well something around that for updates yes [10:53] seb128: yeah i referred to the "newer version in upstream part" [10:53] ie listing things not uptodates as we list merges to do would be nice yes [10:53] maybe talk to scott ... gnome tarballs should be as debian packagesjust that they dont have a debian/ dir ;) [10:54] we have plenty of similar pages already [10:54] see the ubuntu-x page pitti just gave [10:54] the pkg-gnome debian team has one too [10:55] seb128: this one: http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-2.26-status.html ? [10:55] yes [10:55] but if you just that that and you cannot claim a "tarball" it doesnt solve your initial problem? [10:55] or is your initial problem that you have to hand out tasks ? [10:55] right we want: [10:55] - a list [10:55] - an easy way to claim updates on this list [10:55] yeah. claiming updates should be like making a timed lock [10:55] which are somewhat orthogonal things [10:55] e.g. for 36 hours or so [10:56] or whatever time seems reasonable [10:56] I was thinking just have a bzr where you add a line "source name" [10:56] to claim that you work on "source" [10:56] and have the page code looking that that bzr [10:56] we could also have a small command list tools [10:56] ie, list-to-do [10:57] seb128: so if we want to look for the future claiming could simply be creating a new [10:57] which would list available updates and being worked ones just by using watch files and this bzr todo list [10:57] UNRELEASED changelog entry [10:57] in bzr [10:57] e..g [10:57] seb128: on a tangent, retracers are grinding [10:57] well, that's not because you fix a typo in the control description and don't want to upload that you want to keep a lock on the source [10:57] dch -i -DUNRELEASED "*new gnome tarball x.x.x"; then commit means its claimed [10:57] pitti: excellent [10:58] i mean if you could just express that you work on it in the bzr tree where you will work on directly it makes most sense, no? [10:58] instead of maintaing a different file that everybody has to remember to use and so on [10:58] right [11:01] so how about the idea of claiming through UNRELEASED changelog entry [11:01] well, that's not because you fix a typo in the control description and don't want to upload that you want to keep a lock on the source [11:01] and a website that parses bzr trees for versions currently worked on [11:01] (and how long idle) [11:01] seb128: hmm [11:01] valid argument. [11:01] my feeling is that bugs are too much of a constrain [11:01] and that changelog updates are racy and don't work in all cases [11:01] we used the wiki for a while but it takes ages to load and commit changes [11:01] I leaning toward a simple bzr list and a wrapper tool [11:01] desktop-todo claim source [11:02] desktop-todo info source [11:02] that sort of thing [11:02] and use a bzr for infos storage [11:02] Couldn't you have a page like Bryce's with a "Claim" button that uses LP auth? [11:02] well if somebody wants to do that [11:02] CLI++ [11:03] seb128: I can work on that if you wish, once jaunty released (too much work atm, as you know) [11:03] but I've no clue about lp authentification and I don't want to spend time on a website [11:03] didrocks: would be nice, we can discuss it at uds if you will be there [11:03] i'll see [11:03] dunno if invitations have already been sent [11:03] the code is probably stealable from bryce and REVU [11:03] seb128: I hope I will be there, still waiting for sponsoring results :) [11:04] didrocks: maybe make claiming so that it either shows how old the claim is [11:04] or that it gets automatically unset after a while [11:04] i guess showing how old is good [11:04] asac: yes, timeline is import there, for not having deadlock [11:04] asac: right [11:05] important* [11:07] mpt, ping [11:12] asac: you already got commit approval for your evolution change ;-) [11:13] the evolution guys are reactive nowadays that's cool [11:13] yep M barnes is really working hard on evo [11:14] until he'll be relocated on other things [11:14] :/ [11:14] does redhat relocate people often? [11:14] mchra is doing most of the bug fixing work I notice [11:14] mccaan seems to be a moving target [11:15] mbarnes is rather doing the switch away from bonobo etc changes [11:15] right [11:15] but mchra and mbarnes are on evolution for several cycles now [11:15] but I guess now mchra and barnes are really involved in evo so I hope they'll continue to work for some time [11:16] Laney, hey [11:16] yo [11:16] Laney, upsating libgupnp fixed the crash in nautilus-sendto-universe [11:16] excellent [11:16] I did a FFe request to have it updated [11:17] seb can approve that [11:17] even universe packages ? [11:17] * Laney thinks so [11:17] crevette: only universe packages rather ;-) [11:18] I'm not approving packages for main [11:18] what is the bug number? [11:18] bug 348122 [11:18] Launchpad bug 348122 in gupnp "FFe: Sync gupnp 0.12.6-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348122 [11:19] seb128: great. can you commit ;)? [11:19] asac: you don't have commit access to the GNOME svn yet? you should ask for that ;-) [11:20] seb128: good. whats the process? [11:21] asac: http://live.gnome.org/NewAccounts [11:23] Laney, I didn't had to answer on the bug report but the upgrade seems to be really safe [11:24] nothing out of nautilus-sendto-universe is using the lib [11:24] yep [11:24] and all other gupnp packages are developped by the same people [11:24] I don't understand why this one was not updatd [11:24] because nobody did it [11:24] there others packages were synced and not this one [11:25] it was updated in Debian after FF [11:25] after DIF even [11:25] asac: mbarnes is commiting the change now, you should still apply for svn access ;-) [11:26] seb128: are you voucher? [11:26] asac: yes [11:26] asac: you can probably list danw too [11:26] seb128: i have to select a module [11:26] I guess you worked enough with him for that no? [11:27] i think so [11:27] hum [11:27] asac: select nm, maybe just ping danw before ;-) [11:28] yeah [11:28] vuntz: ^ [11:28] seb128: you are not a module owner right? [11:28] vuntz: is there any way to apply for a svn account without being active commiter on a specific component? [11:28] asac: well I'm one of the gnome-control-center ones but it would be weird if you applied for this one since you didn't contribute on it [11:28] heh [11:29] ok [11:29] i will wait till dan pops up [11:29] i can ask chpe too [11:29] just ask danw and pick nm I would say [11:29] seb128, this active component is not really relevant, I didn't touch specific modules neither [11:29] oh right [11:29] let me check if he is online ;) [11:29] crevette: what component did you pick on the mango page then? [11:29] not either ... i will decide based on who pops-up first ;) [11:30] seb128: do the evo guys also have a hand on gtkhtml? [11:30] yes, mbarnes does gtkhtml too [11:30] seb128, I don't remember, dodji was the coucher for me, and I set hadess also [11:30] seb128: ok. i marked the gtkhtml patch as a depends of the evolution bug so i guess they will see [11:30] asac: I expect he will review your other patch soon too, if he doesn't I'll ping him about it [11:30] s/coucher/voucher/ [11:31] seb128: no hurry. [11:31] i am sure tat most patches get in in time for .1 [11:31] right [11:31] gnome folks have always been reponsive ... except maybe at-spi ;) [11:32] hmm ... just found out that pidgin isnt even gnome ;) [11:36] no it's not [11:36] empathy is the GNOME im client [11:36] pidgin is only a GTK application ;-) [11:39] seb128: re webkit. i have to check why gwibber doesnt work. i asked gwibber folks to investigate let me check [11:43] asac: don't bother, it's important in no way for jaunty [11:44] asac: I would just push epiphany-webkit to universe if we have 1.1 [11:44] but a ppa will do [11:45] seb128: how about syncing the webkit stuff to -desktop ppa? and then seeing how well it works? [11:46] i dont want to put it into my ppa because its currently used for "font" topic ... unfortunately there is no sub-ppa support yet [11:47] so if we can use -desktop for that it would be great [11:50] asac: there is a webkit ppa [11:50] asac: https://edge.launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive/ppa [12:00] oh good [12:04] pedro_: hey [12:04] salut seb128 [12:05] pedro_: I think mvo could use some help triaging his components [12:05] pedro_: is there anything scheduled for the new bug day? [12:05] I was just running accross https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties [12:05] 82 bugs, 46 new [12:05] could that be a bug day target? [12:05] i think mozilla components need a massive mass and flash hug ;) [12:06] seb128: yep totally, there's nothing for tomorrow though and next week we are having a xorg one to help bryce with the bugs [12:06] pedro_: perhaps you can quickly announce software-properties for tomorrow? ;-) [12:07] well there is no hurry [12:07] I just came across it [12:08] m i think we're too close to the date, we announce those to UWN as well [12:08] I would not mind help with hat [12:08] seb128: i'll add it to the planning for April though [12:08] pedro_: thanks [12:08] and will do some triaging there today in the meantime [12:09] you rock! [12:09] * seb128 hugs pedro_ mvo [12:09] * pedro_ hugs both [12:09] pedro_: maybe you can manage to tackle that backlog by your own today who knows ;-) [12:09] I marked some duplicate right now but that's a bit too many bugs to triage right now for me to go through the list [12:10] i dont even know the magnitude of my backlog [12:10] heh yeah maybe, let's see how it goes :-) [12:11] grgr i am the only one getting a lot of spam lately? [12:11] define "a lot" ;)? [12:12] well at least 40 emails a day [12:12] pedro_: with or without spam filtering? [12:12] lol [12:12] pedro_: I'm going some hundred of spams through my spam filtering a day [12:13] and some thousand in the spam filter too [12:13] i think i get a couple hundreds each day and also a bunch of legitimate mails i never see because my spam filtering is too strict [12:13] asac: well I'm not filtering those locally [12:13] mm i might consider that option, i'm getting tired of those [12:13] so 40 mails get through your provider filter? [12:14] yeah [12:15] pitti: can you confirm you can login to ekiga.net with 3.2? [12:16] kenvandine_wk: ack; was broken this morning, seems to work now [12:17] kenvandine_wk: @ekiga.net's echo test still doesn't work for me, though [12:17] kenvandine_wk: oops, it does work for me now [12:17] it works for me with 3.0.1, but not 3.2 [12:18] i get this request terminated message, which there has been at least one other report of on the mailing list [12:18] * kenvandine_wk is debugging it [12:18] kenvandine_wk: ekiga.net seems to be very brittle for me, too [12:18] weird it works for you [12:18] tried it again, and it's silent [12:19] * pitti wonders whether so many people complain at ekiga, the application, because ekiga.net, the service, is totally unreliable [12:19] likely :) [12:19] the error code i am getting is what happens when you try to register/auth and before it answers you cancel it [12:19] both my Canonical as well as my diamondcard.us account have always worked perfectly [12:19] but it happens in like a second [12:20] rick said ekiga.net has been reliable for him, with 3.0.x [12:20] it works amazingly well with our canonical setup [12:20] * kenvandine_wk thinks it is better than skype :) [12:21] can't compare, I have never used skype [12:21] i've only used it a few times... but i always had little weird problems... [12:28] thanks seb128 for the ack for gunp [12:28] gupnp [12:28] crevette: you're welcome [12:36] asac: do you know if there's anybody working on bug 341684 (in order to assign it to and set the right status) ? [12:36] Launchpad bug 341684 in network-manager-applet "nm-applet notifications should have more information for disconnected states" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341684 [12:39] pedro_: commented [12:40] asac: great, thanks you [12:42] pitti: now ekiga.net is working for me in 3.2... but i get a segfault on exit [12:43] pitti: do you get that? [12:43]