[11:58]  * persia peers about
[11:58] <davidm> G'day
[11:59]  * ogra coughs and will try to follow in his sick head
[12:00]  * lool waves
[12:01]  * lool shivers and sneezes
[12:01] <ogra> go away! you infected me ...
[12:01] <dholbach> come on, we can't send the whole mobile team to hospital!
[12:01] <persia> OK.  Enough preamble, let's get started.
[12:01] <persia> #startmeeting
[12:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is persia.
[12:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:01]  * davmor2 runs clamtk to kill the virus
[12:02] <persia> Agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090326
[12:02] <persia> First up, action item revew
[12:02] <persia> [topic] persia to investigate 338148 (co)
[12:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia to investigate 338148 (co)
[12:03] <persia> So, I've looked a bit more, and I now understand the reason it doesn't work, but I've been distracted by installer issues, and haven't tracked down a fix yet.
[12:03] <lool> No NCommander?
[12:03] <persia> [topic] persia & NCommander to review workflow for testing alternate images.
[12:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia & NCommander to review workflow for testing alternate images.
[12:03] <lool> GrueMaster, plars: Around?  :-)
[12:03] <plars> lool: yup
[12:04] <persia> So,we went through it, and did a lot of testing, and found some fixes that ended up as bug #345534
[12:04] <persia> Most of those were just merged with trunk, and testing should be available post-beta.
[12:04] <ogra> i think lool has patches for that one
[12:05] <persia> For the flash-kernel bit?
[12:05] <ogra> yes
[12:05] <ogra> it was waiting on redboot-tools
[12:05] <persia> Cool!
[12:05] <lool> I have a partial patch
[12:05] <lool> It misses the udeb parts and the fconfig part
[12:06] <ogra> fconfig is a two liner if we work with the bin
[12:06] <persia> lool, Is it somewhere viewable?  I'm happy to help track down the udeb part.
[12:06] <lool> persia: Will attach it
[12:06] <persia> Great.
[12:06] <persia> Moving on...
[12:06] <ogra> if we dont, fconfig needs to grow an init function
[12:06] <persia> [topic] NCommander to post dmesg for jax10 to 280669 (co)
[12:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to post dmesg for jax10 to 280669 (co)
[12:06] <persia> NCommander appears to be absent.
[12:07] <persia> The dmesg appears to have been attached according to the bug log: I'll mark the action as done.
[12:07] <persia> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
[12:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
[12:07] <lool> no progress due to beta and I don't expect progress next week, but I keep it in my TODO
[12:08] <persia> OK.  I'll keep carrying it over then :)
[12:08] <persia> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
[12:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
[12:08] <ogra> the build-babbage-image.sh script on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20090326-armel+imx51/ will serve as a base for the tool here
[12:09] <ogra> i didnt update the spec though
[12:09] <ogra> so co
[12:09] <persia> OK.
[12:09] <ogra> same goes for the next two points
[12:09] <persia> Right.
[12:10] <persia> OK.  That completes action items.
[12:10] <persia> Let's move on to Roadmap
[12:10] <persia> [topic] offline-installer
[12:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
[12:10]  * ogra only has to say something to one point there ... (babbage status)
[12:10] <persia> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
[12:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
[12:10] <ogra> all other items are as they were
[12:11] <persia> No change since last week.
[12:11] <persia> [topic] arm-library-optimisation
[12:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  arm-library-optimisation
[12:11] <lool> Ready to be pushed now that glibc is in
[12:11] <persia> Excellent!
[12:11]  * NCommander coughs
[12:11] <lool> pango changes ready to be pushed; persia on the other changes
[12:12] <lool> persia: Feel free to revisit the other topics involving Michael
[12:12] <persia> [ACTION] persia to chase VFP for cairo, ffmpeg, gtk+2.0
[12:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to chase VFP for cairo, ffmpeg, gtk+2.0
[12:12] <persia> lool, No need: both action items were completed from other evidence.
[12:12] <persia> [topic] poulsbo-packaging
[12:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  poulsbo-packaging
[12:12] <persia> I didn't look at this at all this week.
[12:13]  * persia skips general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
[12:13] <lool> You were to look into poulsbo-packaging?
[12:13] <persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
[12:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
[12:13] <NCommander> No progress, carryover.
[12:13]  * persia skips selection-of-arm-images
[12:13] <persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
[12:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
[12:14] <lool> Nothing new to report
[12:14] <persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
[12:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
[12:14] <persia> Still being ignored.
[12:15] <persia> [topic] bug #299847
[12:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847
[12:15]  * ogra added two new bugs to roadmap, please reload
[12:15] <NCommander> No progress
[12:15]  * persia plays browser caching games
[12:16] <persia> [topic] bug #328167
[12:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167
[12:16] <ogra> post beta
[12:16] <persia> [topic] bug #280699
[12:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280699
[12:16] <persia> Grr....  Not again!
[12:16] <persia> [topic] bug #280669
[12:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669
[12:17] <NCommander> carry over please.
[12:18] <davidm> I added a bug also just now
[12:18] <persia> [topic] bug #338148
[12:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148
[12:19] <persia> See progress in my action item
[12:19] <persia> [topic] bug #348411
[12:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348411
[12:20] <lool> fix committed?
[12:20] <lool> nothing to discuss then?
[12:20] <persia> Apparently.
[12:21] <ogra> there is one other bug with configuring apt persia and i both saw but neither of us reported or investigated yet
[12:21] <persia> [topic] bug #348411
[12:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348411
[12:22] <lool> We just had that one
[12:22]  * persia is confused.
[12:22] <ogra> yeah
[12:23] <lool> Also the bug title doesn't match the bug number on the wiki page
[12:23] <persia> Right.  I found it, and will fix the Roadmap.
[12:23] <ogra> hmm, right, my fault
[12:23] <lool> ogra: Fix the bug numbers or titles?
[12:24] <persia> [topic] bug #348504
[12:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348504
[12:24] <ogra> yeah, thts the one
[12:24] <lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/348504
[12:24] <lool> Right
[12:24] <lool> ogra: I am not sure why we need to track it in our meetings?
[12:25] <lool> Kernel team said they didn't want to milestone this as it was dependent on a patch from FSL and they wouldn't fix it themselves
[12:25] <ogra> its a releasse blocker ?
[12:25] <lool> And mobile is not going to fix the bug
[12:25] <persia> It's a release blocker.
[12:25] <lool> You can install to SD or to SATA and we can't do anything about it
[12:25] <ogra> SATA is USB
[12:26] <lool> So documenting the workaround in release notes is the only thing to do I'm afraid
[12:26] <ogra> all target media is usb
[12:26] <davidm> I agree
[12:26] <lool> ogra: Uh?
[12:26]  * NCommander didn't have this issue with the raw FSL 2.6.28 kernel ...
[12:26] <ogra> lool, the SATA is juts a usb bridge
[12:26] <lool> I thought this SoC was special in that it was *not* using USB for SATA/PATA
[12:26] <ogra> lool, the bug makes the image hardlock after some minutes
[12:27] <lool> ogra: So how do we fix it?
[12:27] <ogra> stopping syslog is the only way atm
[12:27] <ogra> acording to persia cooloney had a fix
[12:27] <davidm> lool, pata is not USB sata is
[12:27] <persia> Or editing syslog.conf to drop all kernel messages.
[12:27] <lool> davidm: hmm ok
[12:27] <persia> ogra, No, not a fix.  Was aware of the issue.
[12:28] <ogra> oh
[12:28] <ogra> then i misunderstood you
[12:28] <lool> ogra: My understanding was that kernel team would either merge fixes for final or as a SRU
[12:28] <ogra> we cant release witjh it though
[12:28] <lool> In all cases the mobile team can only document the workaround and that's done already
[12:28] <lool> ogra: It's on the kernel team's plate to review potential fixes to it and they requested not to milestone it
[12:29] <ogra> well, we wont get any installer debugging without syslog
[12:29] <lool> You want to discuss improvements to the workaround?
[12:29] <ogra> i dont see improvements
[12:29] <persia> Let's set this aside.  This doesn't seem like productive discussion.  The bug isn't blocking me reviewing install issues.
[12:30] <persia> Moving on.
[12:30] <lool> Well I'd like to decide whether we're reviewing it
[12:30] <ogra> syslog, debug log and kern log get filled with 100s of MB
[12:30] <lool> I don't see the point in having this bug every week
[12:30] <ogra> that makes oom kick in
[12:30] <persia> lool, fair point.
[12:30] <lool> So let's document how to setup syslog properly
[12:30] <lool> Instead of just commenting out kern, you could drop kern.debug to /dev/null or something like that
[12:31] <ogra> and syslog ?
[12:31] <lool> Add a kern.none?
[12:31] <ogra> hrm
[12:31] <persia> So, who's going to document the improved workaround?
[12:31] <lool> I'm not using USB for my installs happy to leave it to one of you
[12:31] <persia> Let's keep this bug on our list, until we have a workaround that means it's only a kernel issue.
[12:31] <ogra> lool, huh ? what are you using ?
[12:32] <lool> SD
[12:32] <ogra> how do you do that when testing the live image ?
[12:32] <lool> I don't use the live image yet; I intend to add a partition after the live image for install
[12:32] <ogra> ah
[12:33] <ogra> makes sense ... but you will still get the errors as long as usb is active
[12:34] <ogra> lool, btw, as soon as bug 348411 is fixed your way wont work
[12:34] <davidm> persia, please reload I added more bugs
[12:34] <persia> ogra, Are you up for documenting how to configure syslog to be quiet?
[12:34] <ogra> sigh
[12:35] <ogra> seems i have to
[12:35] <ogra> i have to redo the builder script as well for the ubiquity bug
[12:35] <ogra> before beta gets out
[12:35] <persia> [action] ogra to document workaround for 348504
[12:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to document workaround for 348504
[12:36] <ogra> and i'm massively sick
[12:36] <ogra> and have to test nslu2 which nobody else can apparently
[12:36] <davidm> lool, did you go visist ogra this week? ;-P
[12:36] <persia> [topic] bug #348660
[12:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348660
[12:36] <lool> We had a phone call, that must be it
[12:36] <ogra> davidm, we're working together day and night since 10 days without break ...
[12:37] <persia> So I put together a quick hack that hides this issue.
[12:37] <ogra> i guess the intense closeness is the cause :)
[12:37] <davidm> ogra, I know, just bad joke about physical visit
[12:37] <lool> ogra: Give me more blanket
[12:37] <persia> I've a roadmap to actually fix it.
[12:37] <ogra> lool, heh
[12:38] <davidm> an electronic human bug, who would have thunk ;-P
[12:38]  * persia bangs the gavel
[12:38] <lool> persia: As long as u-i folks are happy with it, let's use it
[12:38] <persia> lool, use which?
[12:38] <lool> persia: I guess it shows we need flash-kernel ubiquity integration pretty quick afterwards though
[12:38] <NCommander> We do need to fix this bug in the installed system
[12:38] <lool> persia: Your quick hack
[12:38] <NCommander> Or else it will continue to fill up the syslogs.
[12:38] <persia> lool, The quick hack is already committed to ubiquity.  The real fix is needed also.
[12:38] <lool> NCommander: syslog.conf gets copied over
[12:39] <persia> Moving on.
[12:39] <NCommander> Ew
[12:39] <persia> [topic] bug #347350
[12:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #347350
[12:39] <lool> This issue is long standing and known since before UDS and was discussed there: not sure what we can do now
[12:39] <davidm> This is one for StevenK to track and perhaps fix if possible it's quite nasty
[12:40] <persia> Well, there's been massive improvements to ubiquity UI during the jaunty cycle.  For some other installation cases, the ubiquity UI was moved to oem-setup, addressing the issue.
[12:40] <davidm> We picked up a slew of bugs in yesterdays testing round on the UNR
[12:40] <persia> Except in cases where ubiquity doesn't fit, I suspect this ought be fairly straightforward.
[12:40] <plars> yeah, with some of these resolution bugs you can workaround by alt-clicking and moving the window about, but not with this one
[12:41] <lool> I'm personally pressing enter  :-)
[12:41] <ogra> not in oem-config i think
[12:41] <ogra> since it runs fullsceen
[12:41] <plars> lool: which works, so long as you don't want to change anything
[12:41] <davidm> I pressed enter all the way through OEM confg and made it to complete install
[12:42] <davidm> I was able to set timezone, enter my name password etc. just had to hit enter for each screen to go forward
[12:42] <persia> davidm, That's for UNR, I presume?
[12:42] <davidm> Yes
[12:42] <lool> davidm: You did?  I can't press enter on the import from other OS screen, which I reported
[12:42] <davidm> All the last bugs I added are UNR
[12:42] <lool> perhaps that was fixed in the mean time hmm
[12:42] <persia> Right.  MID still has an issue that it can't complete oem-install interactively because of kourou.
[12:42] <StevenK> The problem is we are past UI freeze ...
[12:43] <lool> StevenK: exactly
[12:43] <lool> StevenK: That's why I fear we can't do much at this point
[12:43] <lool> Not only is it risky to change the UI of all people installing ubuntu, but it breaks doc & screenshots   :-/
[12:44] <lool> (and the fixes aren't trivial in my eyes either)
[12:46] <persia> OK.  We seem stalled.
[12:46] <lool> davidm: So how important is it when compared to other issues?
[12:46] <persia> So, Do we want to pursue the oem-config UI alignment with ubiquity at this point?
[12:47] <davidm> We need to release note it I think
[12:47] <lool> this class of issues is only worth fixing if we fix all screens, the changes don't seem trivial and will require a lot of our cycles and a horde of exceptions
[12:47] <davidm> You can install it, the OEM team will have to fix this for sure for their builds, so we will have to get a fix in a some point.
[12:48] <lool> persia: I saw the problem in ubiquity, I don't think oem versus ubiquity is the problem
[12:48] <davidm> We are now responsible for UNR fitting on screens or getting someone to fix them
[12:48] <davidm> It's our headach
[12:48] <lool> Hmm theres' something which we could do for timezone which wouldn't be too insane: don't show the map widget when it doesn't fit
[12:49] <persia> lool, "The same problem"?  I've been running ubiquity installs at 800x600, and can see the buttons.  This sounds like something more severe.
[12:49] <davidm> persia, skip Bug 346589  I just saw a post from cjwatson about it,
[12:49] <lool> persia: I ran it on my EeePC 701SD in UNR and saw this issue
[12:49] <davidm> it's in hand
[12:50] <davidm> The netbooks have smaller vertical res that removes the buttons from the screen completely
[12:50] <davidm> 576 I think
[12:50] <ogra> 600 - twp panels (= 48px)
[12:50] <ogra> *two
[12:50] <davidm> just enough to remove the buttons from the screen
[12:50] <persia> Oh, Yeah.  There's little enough space at 600 that I can imagine 576 just doesn't fit at all.
[12:50] <ogra> or is that the new glass ?
[12:51] <davidm> That is the new glass size
[12:51] <ogra> ah
[12:51] <davidm> VERY popular
[12:51] <ogra> but only one panel in UNR
[12:51] <lool> persia: eeepc is 800×480
[12:51] <ogra> so 576-24
[12:51] <davidm> Yea
[12:51] <davidm> So 701 is even smaller
[12:51] <lool> So it's 480 minus one panel on UNR
[12:52] <persia> lool, Ah.  Yeah, nothing we have fits in 480.
[12:52] <davidm> Anyway, it needs to be tracked and fixed at some point
[12:52] <davidm> UNR works well on the thing however
[12:52] <lool> We don't have a hard goal at the moment, do we?
[12:52] <persia> We asked for that at UDS, and got a *lot* of improvements, but it's not enough for 480.
[12:52] <ogra> definately not
[12:52] <persia> I thought the hard goal was currently at 600 vertical pixels.
[12:52] <davidm> lool, we own the UNR now and the issues around it.
[12:52]  * ogra thought 576-panel
[12:53] <persia> We could move it to 576, but that's less.  480 sounds too low.
[12:53] <davidm> We have have to at least deal with 576 panels
[12:53] <lool> davidm: Let me more explicit: I have a 100x100 device, will UNR work on it?
[12:53] <ogra> heh
[12:53] <davidm> lool, no
[12:53] <lool> davidm: What's the limit?
[12:53] <davidm> eee PC 701
[12:53]  * persia notes there are only 7 minutes left, and lots to cover.
[12:54] <davidm> Lets move on for now
[12:54] <persia> [topic] bug #344449
[12:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #344449
[12:54] <persia> So, the fix to make the message less confusing has been committed.
[12:55] <davidm> Yes just happened :-)
[12:55] <persia> The underlying issue that one may or may not want to install on the install media is a bit murky.
[12:55] <cjwatson> there's still the fact that it appears at all, but I posted an extensive proposal to one of Matt's bugs
[12:55] <cjwatson> I think it will be tractable for final
[12:55] <davidm> cjwatson, thanks
[12:55] <cjwatson> you can't actually install on the installation medium; that won't be fixable
[12:55] <cjwatson> well, ish
[12:56] <cjwatson> if the installation medium has other partitions already set up then you can install on those as long as you don't change the partition table
[12:56] <lool> cjwatson: Is it ok to install on a partition of that medium which isn't used by the installer?
[12:56] <cjwatson> ^-
[12:56] <lool> Ok; thanks
[12:56] <lool> That's actually what I want to do
[12:56] <cjwatson> bear in mind that's a historically awkward case
[12:56] <lool> But others are installing on another medium
[12:56] <lool> cjwatson: I was just curious and like that setup; but it's personal
[12:56] <cjwatson> because the partition table is locked, the kernel will refuse to reread it if you change any partitions at all in non-trivial ways
[12:57] <lool> persia: Next bug?
[12:57] <persia> [topic] bug #319825
[12:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #319825
[12:57] <persia> This looks like a kernel bug to me.
[12:57] <lool> (cjwatson: Happy to read whether you think it's possible to fit ubiquity and oem-setup in 480 screens)
[12:58] <davidm> Again we need to track this
[12:58] <persia> Do we need to discuss it each week?
[12:58] <davidm> make sure it's resolved
[12:58] <cjwatson> lool: 600 yes, 480 ambitious
[13:00] <lool> davidm: ^
[13:00] <cjwatson> although 600 still probably not trivial
[13:00] <davidm> cjwatson, is 576 within your opinion of 600?
[13:00] <ogra> 576
[13:00] <lool> davidm: I don't think it's worthwhile to track it in the mobile meetings; we could poke the kernel team weekly about it via email or in their meeting perhaps?
[13:00] <cjwatson> davidm: not sure
[13:00] <persia> cjwatson, 600 works in ubiquity today, with the latest UI changes.
[13:00] <davidm> lool, OK on 319825
[13:00] <lool> davidm: There are already kernel bugs hotlists; I think that would be my preferred way
[13:00] <davidm> lool, OK by me
[13:00] <cjwatson> persia: oh good. oem-config is still awkward due to the annoying language screen
[13:00] <persia> cjwatson, Right.
[13:00] <cjwatson> might be possible to make better use of horizontal space there though
[13:00] <ogra> doent work on 600 for me on the babbage without moving the window
[13:00] <ogra> *doesnt
[13:00] <persia> ogra, Hrm.  Dunno why you and I see different results.  Let's compare after the meeting.
[13:00] <ogra> the buttons are hidden behind the bottom panel
[13:00] <davidm> persia, head for last bug please
[13:00] <ogra> i have a 1px line for each of them i can click on
[13:00] <persia> [topic] bug #346078
[13:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #346078
[13:01] <davidm> I had that happen to me, we need to track again unless someone has better idea
[13:01] <persia> So, pitti seems to have this on-track.  Shall we just coordinate with him, as with the kernel bug above?
[13:01] <davidm> Yes
[13:01] <lool> That's on pitti's radar already
[13:01] <lool> Right
[13:01] <persia> RIght.  Let's try to drop them from the roadmap for next week.
[13:02] <persia> Personally, I think things like this are better added as discussion items for the meeting than roadmap items.
[13:02] <persia> Anyway.
[13:02] <persia> [topic] NSLU2 enablement
[13:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  NSLU2 enablement
[13:02] <lool> let's skip that: image killed for beta
[13:02] <ogra> finishing the beta install here
[13:02] <lool> Oh no sorry, I'm confused
[13:02] <persia> OK.
[13:02] <lool> I mixed it up with versatile
[13:02] <ogra> i'm at 97%
[13:02] <persia> ogra, Nothing new to report?
[13:03] <ogra> persia, seems to have run fine up to here
[13:03] <persia> [topic] Babbage enablement
[13:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage enablement
[13:03] <lool> persia: Don't think we need to visit it every week anymore; ogra is doing beta testing using the already done enablement
[13:03] <ogra> and i dont plan to touch it agaiun if nobody reports breakage
[13:03] <lool> persia: (I mean on NSLU2)
[13:03] <persia> ogra, IF it's done, remove it from the roadmap :p
[13:04] <ogra> feel free
[13:04] <lool> Babbage is a good topic though: NCommander what needs to be done for d-i support after beta still?
[13:04] <lool> On ubiquity, we need a flash-kernel frontend IIUC what persia explained me
[13:04] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20090326-armel+imx51/ is there, i will add the fixes fdor syslog and ubiquity today
[13:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20090326-armel+imx51/ is there, i will add the fixes fdor syslog and ubiquity today
[13:04] <NCommander> lool, its pending cjwatson's merge
[13:04] <lool> NCommander: It's done i think
[13:04] <persia> NCommander, That's done.
[13:04] <cjwatson> which is committed
[13:04] <ogra> the dl page points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BabbageJauntyBetaInstall
[13:04] <lool> NCommander: But what needs to be done from our side still?
[13:04] <cjwatson> I'll upload right after beta
[13:04] <persia> There's also an outstanding choose-mirror branch to make armel use ports.
[13:04] <cjwatson> lool: there's still a flash-kernel task on that bug
[13:05] <cjwatson> persia: oh, there is? I'll hunt that down
[13:05] <ogra> which should get you going with a working install after i changed the two issues
[13:05] <lool> cjwatson: Yeah, I have a flash-kernel update for the regular updates
[13:05] <lool> But not for the udeb part
[13:05] <NCommander> lool, then we need to hook up the cdimage code to spit out an image. The only thing that doesn't work is kernel installation due to the post-install on the kernel not doing anything AFAIK
[13:05] <lool> And it doesn't fix the bug with initramfs size
[13:05] <persia> cjwatson, I'll pass you the URL
[13:05] <ogra> and not for fconfig yet
[13:05] <NCommander> (I assigned that task on the bug to you lool)
[13:05] <cjwatson> persia: it's ok, if it's on LP I'll find it easily
[13:06] <lool> cjwatson: I'd like to ask you for help on the issue with flash-kernel and fconfig and bootscript with initramfs size after the meeting
[13:06] <lool> NCommander: Oh ok
[13:06] <cjwatson> lool: ok
[13:06] <ogra> all in all i think we got a lot futher with babbage than lool and i belived last week ...
[13:06] <lool> persia: Perhaps we can also discuss the -installer bit moving to a separate script
[13:06] <ogra> yeah
[13:06] <ogra> redboot-install or something
[13:06] <NCommander> ogra, well, we have live images now, and alternate ones will be here soon AFAIK
[13:07] <persia> lool, Doesn't need to happen.  There's another way it can be done, which makes it easier.
[13:07] <lool> persia: Hmm ok
[13:07] <persia> See the #ubuntu-devel backscroll from about 75 minutes ago.
[13:07] <lool> ok
[13:07] <lool> Anything else on babbage enablement?
[13:07] <ogra> nope
[13:07] <lool> There are some hardware and kernel issues, but not on our plate
[13:07] <persia> Alright then.
[13:07] <persia> [topic] ARM Benchmarking
[13:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Benchmarking
[13:07] <ogra> and we're late all over but we all know that
[13:07] <lool> Yeah
[13:08] <ogra> and its not our fault, i think we did what we could do
[13:08] <lool> NCommander actually benchmarked doko's libgcc-vfp
[13:08] <NCommander> I benchmarked libgcc_s via hwcaps.
[13:08] <NCommander> lol
[13:08] <lool> But results where not impressive, either unconclusive or no progress at all
[13:08] <NCommander> There was a slight increase in performance, but nothing to really write home about.
[13:08] <lool> NCommander: Could you tell doko about your results?
[13:09] <NCommander> sure.
[13:09] <lool> Perhaps he will decide to drop the changes, or  suggest alternate benchmarking?
[13:09] <lool> [action] foobar blahablhablah
[13:09] <NCommander> o_O;
[13:09]  * lool invokes persia 
[13:09] <persia> [action] NCommander to report on libgcc-vfp benchmark results to doko
[13:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to report on libgcc-vfp benchmark results to doko
[13:10] <persia> And that takes us to the last item of the day:
[13:10] <persia> [topic] Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
[13:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
[13:10] <lool> Ah sorry, no time left to discuss that   :-P
[13:10] <ogra> we're over time actually
[13:11] <ogra> long ago that we managed *that*
[13:11] <persia> I know.  But since I chair the next meeting, I don't care :p
[13:11] <lool> Yeah, that was the joke, but they are asleep, poor fellows  :-/
[13:11] <lool> So, what time?
[13:11] <persia> No they aren't.  I've seen comments from several in those timezones that got up far too early today.
[13:11] <lool> GrueMaster: You had a proposal
[13:11] <persia> I still think 21:00 UTC is best.
[13:12] <davidm> I'm OK with 21:00 UTC
[13:12] <lool> So I'm moving to UTC+2 next week
[13:12] <davidm> I think that fell in line with what GrueMaster put forward
[13:12] <lool> along with ogra
[13:12] <ogra> yeah
[13:12] <davidm> what time does that make it for you 23:00?
[13:12] <lool> It's not as awful as 6am though
[13:13] <ogra> yeah
[13:13] <ogra> (to both statements)
[13:13] <lool> davidm: what's that website again?
[13:13] <persia> 21:00 UTC is 06:00 JST.
[13:13] <lool> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/advmeeting.html
[13:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/advmeeting.html
[13:13] <lool> persia: Ah so it's already awful, well then it's done
[13:13] <persia> OK.  Any objections to 21:00 UTC?
[13:14] <StevenK> Ew, 8am
[13:14] <davidm> Not from me
[13:14] <plars> no objection here :)
[13:14] <ogra> no objections
[13:14] <NCommander> What time is that eastern?
[13:14] <persia> [agreed] Mobile Team Meeting times will change to 21:00 UTC henceforth.
[13:14] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Mobile Team Meeting times will change to 21:00 UTC henceforth.
[13:14] <ian_brasil> post this to the mailing list?
[13:14] <persia> ian_brasil, Certainly.  This is more convenient for you as well, right?
[13:14] <lool> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=224
[13:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=224
[13:15] <StevenK> Just as long as we aren't having the meeting in just under 8 hours.
[13:15] <ian_brasil> yes
[13:15] <davidm> NCommander, about 5PM your local time
[13:15] <persia> StevenK, No, we're not having *another* meeting today
[13:15] <NCommander> YES!!!!!
[13:15] <ogra> StevenK, depends how long this one will still run :P
[13:15] <persia> Now that's resolve.
[13:15] <StevenK> Heh
[13:15] <persia> Anyone have any other items to raise?
[13:16] <NCommander> What about the phone call?
[13:16] <lool> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=24&p5=224
[13:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=24&p5=224
[13:16]  * ogra would like to raise that lool ROCKS ... thanks a lot for the help since last wed. on the babbage :)
[13:17]  * lool feels better with ogra's support; I was feeling bad not making progress on my own tasks
[13:17] <lool> ogra: Let's reach for the sky!
[13:17] <ogra> YEAH !
[13:17] <persia> That's it then.
[13:17] <persia> #endmeeting
[13:17] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:17.
[13:17] <lool> persia: Thanks for chairing
[13:17] <ogra> thanks
[14:00]  * persia peers about
[14:01] <ttx> persia: o/
[14:01] <persia> OK.
[14:01] <persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
[14:01] <ttx> \o
[14:02] <persia> Raising the other hand doesn't fool me.  I count by nicks :)
[14:02]  * dantalizing is listening in
[14:02] <ttx> bah
[14:02] <persia> OK.  As usual, nobody added anything to the agenda for this week.
[14:02] <persia> robilad and slytherin aren't here.
[14:02] <persia> I'm going to drop those items from the roadmap.
[14:03] <persia> WIthout direction, I'm not sure we're getting anywhere on the first (as there's no spec or anything for anyone else to take over).
[14:03] <persia> And I think we've made *so much* progress on the second that we're probably almost ahead of Debian.
[14:04] <ttx> almost. They moved quite a bunch to main as well :)
[14:04] <persia> You've convinced me.  We'll drop the first, but not the second.
[14:04] <persia> I didn't get anywhere with my cunning plan to drop Java 5.
[14:04] <ttx> bummer :)
[14:04] <persia> ttx, How's JavaContents coming along?
[14:05] <ttx> not much done since last week. i'll generate a javaContents for jaunty beta
[14:05] <ttx> (because I need it for myself, quite selfishly)
[14:05] <ttx> no feedback
[14:05] <persia> heh.
[14:06] <persia> And for attracting new Java packagers?
[14:06] <ttx> I might blog about it but it's only interesting to java packagers
[14:06] <ttx> ... and this is a rare species
[14:06] <persia> Yes, but blogging about it might get more of them to raise their hands :)
[14:06] <ttx> will do.
[14:07] <persia> OK.  Anything else?
[14:09] <ttx> no.
[14:09] <persia> Alright then.  Meeting adjourned.
[16:39] <sbc> MTecknology: Thanks for the LinkedIN group invite.
[16:58] <dholbach> bdmurray, statik: hello - are you guys around?
[16:59] <statik> hey there dholbach
[16:59] <bdmurray> I'm here
[16:59] <dholbach> bdmurray, statik: I think we have some scheduling problems over here plus soren's daugher is ill, so he won't make it - I'm really really sorry about this
[16:59] <statik> hey, life happens, it's ok
[16:59] <statik> dholbach: so is the meeting for today cancelled?
[17:00] <dholbach> bdmurray, statik: can we reschedule the meeting? does the time generally suit you? so we could just do it in one of the next days? I'll try to chase up enough MC members so we have quorum then
[17:00] <dholbach> I'd take an action item to find a time that suits us all over email
[17:00] <bdmurray> I can go +1 or -1 from now
[17:00] <bdmurray> on a different day ;-)
[17:01] <statik> dholbach: I don't mind waiting until the next meeting, next month
[17:01] <dholbach> thanks a bunch for being so understanding!
[17:01] <dholbach> statik: you sure?
[17:01] <statik> dholbach: i am going on holiday tomorrow, yes it's no problem
[17:01] <dholbach> statik: ok great - thanks a lot
[17:01] <statik> dholbach: i'll move myself on the wiki page to the next meeting
[17:02] <dholbach> and sorry for the misscheduling / life-that-just-happens
[17:02]  * geser is here now too
[17:02] <dholbach> bdmurray: I'm sure we can find a time together and process your application RSN
[17:03] <bdmurray> dholbach: Okay, I'd really prefer not to wait 2 weeks or what have you
[17:03] <geser> the MC is flexible, we already had two ad-hoc meetings in the past
[17:04] <dholbach> bdmurray: no worries - I'm sure we get it done real soon - I'll send that email to everybody in a bit, so we do some ad-hoc scheduling
[17:04] <bdmurray> dholbach: great, thanks for doing that
[17:04]  * dholbach hugs geser, jpds, statik and bdmurray
[17:04] <dholbach> take care guys
[17:04] <dholbach> ##endmeeting