[13:59] <pitti> hello
[13:59] <robbiew> hi :)
[13:59] <fader_> howdy
[13:59]  * lool waves
[13:59] <lool> slangasek: morning!
[13:59] <slangasek> morning
[14:00] <mdz> good morning
[14:00] <ScottK> \o <--- Here after all ($WORK meeting cancelled).
[14:00] <heno> morning
[14:00]  * sbeattie waves
[14:01] <cjwatson> hiya
[14:01] <slangasek> pgraner, davidm, Riddell, Hobbsee: ping
[14:02] <pgraner> slangasek: here
[14:02] <slangasek> hi :)
[14:02] <ScottK> slangasek: 56 minutes ago Riddell said he'd be out for an hour on #kubuntu-devel.
[14:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[14:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is slangasek.
[14:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:02] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-27
[14:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-27
[14:02] <slangasek> ScottK: ok
[14:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
[14:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
[14:04] <slangasek> just a few straggler items here
[14:04] <slangasek> lool: 303232 - will you have a chance to open the per-lib tasks, or should I go ahead and do it?
[14:05] <lool> slangasek: I did, sent you the list
[14:05] <slangasek> and do you guys need help with the actual lib changes?
[14:05] <lool> slangasek: I'm disappointed your not procmail-ing to your dreams!
[14:05] <lool>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-vfp
[14:05] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-vfp
[14:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-vfp
[14:05] <lool> slangasek: Well in theory no, in practice help is welcome
[14:06] <slangasek> ah, separate bugs - these aren't targeted to jaunty yet?
[14:07] <lool> oh no, will milestone them now, sorry
[14:07] <slangasek> I was assuming the gcc-4.3 task on bug #303232 should be closed once those lib tasks are open
[14:07] <lool> slangasek: I think I'll unmilestone it and make it a bug to discuss gcc opts for karmic
[14:07]  * slangasek nods
[14:08] <lool> Ah the gcc one is unmilestoned
[14:08] <lool> Can't untrack it for jaunty
[14:08] <slangasek> lool: 'wontfix' the jaunty task
[14:08] <lool> thanks
[14:08] <slangasek> pgraner: you said apw and pitti were working on the kernel suspend/resume tagging - is there a bug number for tracking that?
[14:09] <pitti> apw just said he'll file one with what needs to be changed
[14:09] <pgraner> slangasek: I should have it in a few minutes, I'll send it over to you
[14:09] <slangasek> ok
[14:09] <pitti> should by done by next week
[14:10] <slangasek> last item on the list is mine; we got the CDs back down to size for beta through a combination of langpack rebasing and more heroic efforts by seb128, but we're not really any closer to having a good way to track where our CD space went in the first place
[14:11] <seb128> slangasek: I would bet on GNOME translated documentations
[14:11] <seb128> ie extra localized screenshots
[14:11] <cjwatson> would it help to get cd-size-analysis fixed not to need packages still in cdimage's mirror?
[14:11] <lool> (vfp bugs milestoned and targetted to jaunty)
[14:11] <slangasek> cjwatson: yes; I'm going to spend some quality time with the build logs early next week to see if I can extract all the information I need for this
[14:11] <slangasek> lool: thanks
[14:12] <slangasek> so that's it for carry-overs
[14:13] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Future issues expected to impact the release
[14:13] <apw> slangasek, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/349621
[14:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Future issues expected to impact the release
[14:13] <slangasek> apw: great, thanks
[14:13] <ScottK> I just milestoned a new bug, Bug #348704, since (that I know of) it breaks update-notifier-kde for upgraders.
[14:13] <slangasek> OMG, who put bug #1 back on the jaunty list
[14:14] <ScottK> It's got me flumoxed, so I'd appreciate it if someone like doko or maybe mvo_ could have a look.
[14:15] <slangasek> mvo_: do you have time to look at that?
[14:16]  * slangasek targets the bug as well
[14:16] <pitti> nothing new for that topic from desktop, for the record (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus is up to date)
[14:16] <slangasek> ScottK: you also brought up clamav as an issue.  Do we need to talk about that further here?
[14:16] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[14:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[14:16] <ScottK> It's an issue.
[14:17] <ScottK> I'm afraid we may have to choose between releasing with an oboslete clamav or with some broken rdepends.
[14:17] <ScottK> Given what it does, not releasing with the current one is not good.
[14:17] <cjwatson> how obsolete is obsolete?
[14:18] <pitti> ScottK: how often does clamav break ABI?
[14:18] <pitti> ScottK: IOW, if we'd need to do another update for jaunty-updates, would we need to go through that rdepends rebuild dance again, or was it more like an one-time change?
[14:18] <ScottK> cjwatson: one major version (0.94.2 versus 0.95) behind.  I can (but haven't) quantified how many virus types we'll miss
[14:18] <ScottK> pitti: Every major version they break it.
[14:19] <ScottK> They did sort of promise this is the last time and they've never done that before.
[14:19] <ScottK> All the libclamav rdepends do need changes to work with 0.95.  All the clamd users are fine.
[14:20] <ScottK> I should know by the middle of next week better where we are.
[14:20] <slangasek> on the flip side of pitti's question, we have tracked clamav in -backports in the past rather than in -updates, so if the reverse-deps couldn't catch up it's not as though we don't have a way to make 0.95 available to jaunty users?
[14:21] <ScottK> That's true.
[14:21] <ScottK> We have also pushed -backports to -security when the time came to keep the maintenance burden manageable (only in Universe).
[14:21] <mvo_> slangasek: I can have a look at the python-qt4 issue
[14:22] <mvo_> (I guess I'm as busy as everyone else)
[14:22] <ScottK> I have a plan for the tech board on my TODO to write up about that ....
[14:22] <slangasek> ScottK: I'm happy to let you make the decision regarding which way we go on the obsolete vs. rdeps question; let us know next week what we can do to help?
[14:22] <cjwatson> python-qt4> doko is away for a few days unfortunately
[14:22]  * slangasek nods
[14:22] <slangasek> mvo_: ok, subscribed you
[14:22] <ScottK> slangasek: OK.  Thanks.
[14:23] <slangasek> ScottK: any other things to discuss while you have the floor?
[14:24] <ScottK> KDE 4.2.2 was tagged yesterday.
[14:24] <ScottK> It'll get released ~tuesday next week.
[14:24] <slangasek> sounds good
[14:24] <ScottK> They've been very good about bugfix only in the third digit updates, so we're operating on the assumption this goes in.
[14:24] <ScottK> That's it.
[14:24]  * slangasek nods
[14:24] <cjwatson> I have a concern I'd like to raise, from while I was thinking about release notes
[14:24] <slangasek> cjwatson: go ahead
[14:25] <cjwatson> I went and looked at http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 last night and noticed that there are at least some things there that we never properly targeted to jaunty and haven't fixed
[14:25] <cjwatson> I think we should make a systematic effort to ensure that everything fixable there gets fixed
[14:25] <mdz> cjwatson: good call
[14:25] <slangasek> (after cjwatson, I'll do around the rest of the teams in a circle to make sure everyone has a chance to comment)
[14:25] <cjwatson> bug 290234 was the one I particularly noticed, though I've pushed up a branch fixing that one for mvo's review
[14:25] <slangasek> s/do around/go around/
[14:25] <mdz> cjwatson: can we put that onto a checklist somewhere so that release noted items for release x get targeted for x+1 as SOP?
[14:26] <cjwatson> mdz: good idea, I'll put it on NewReleaseCycleProcess
[14:26] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to document release-targeting of previous release release-notes items for NewReleaseCycleProcess
[14:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to document release-targeting of previous release release-notes items for NewReleaseCycleProcess
[14:27] <slangasek> cjwatson: since you're already partway through, can you also take care of finishing the release notes review in this case and targeting anything else that's outstanding?
[14:27] <cjwatson> suckered
[14:27] <cjwatson> ok
[14:27] <cjwatson> (I've done the NewReleaseCycleProcess change)
[14:27] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to complete review of 8.10 release notes to identify jaunty targets
[14:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to complete review of 8.10 release notes to identify jaunty targets
[14:28] <cjwatson> is there any other similar list of major issues that we might have forgotten about?
[14:28] <slangasek> not that I'm aware of
[14:29] <slangasek> I have been sucking in the technical overview errata after each milestone
[14:29] <sbeattie> bugs tagged regression-release, perhaps.
[14:30] <sbeattie> (though alas the current set needs more triage, as I've been focusing on the regression-potential tagged bugs)
[14:31] <slangasek> sbeattie: can you triage them and let us know about any that need targeting yet, or should we get more hands on triaging?
[14:31] <sbeattie> I'll talk with the rest of the QA team about getting more triage love for them.
[14:32] <sbeattie> feel free to action me on tha.t
[14:32] <slangasek> [ACTION] sbeattie to follow up with QA team about getting attention on the regression-release bugs
[14:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to follow up with QA team about getting attention on the regression-release bugs
[14:32] <sistpoty|work> maybe some announcement regarding regression-{potential,release} might refresh memory of some devs? (/me included *g*)
[14:33] <sbeattie> sistpoty|work: okay; heno did one recently, I thought, but we can do it again.
[14:33] <sistpoty|work> sbeattie: :)
[14:33] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
[14:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
[14:33]  * heno nods - let's do that
[14:33] <slangasek> sbeattie, fader, heno: anything else we need to discuss from your corner?
[14:34] <fader_> I just want to mention that we got a large number of 'failed' results in the most recent hardware tests, but it's because there's a checkbox test breaking
[14:34] <sbeattie> also as a reminder, I have been assigning regression-potential bugs to teams; please look at the team-assigned reports at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/
[14:34] <slangasek> fader_: noted, thanks
[14:34] <fader_> There's a bug on it and it should be resolved pretty quickly but I didn't want anyone to panic when looking at the report :)
[14:34] <pitti> fader_: do you guys have some hardware with intel 8x5 chips, with x == {4,5,6}?
[14:35] <fader_> pitti: Is this about the X issues that Bryce is working on?
[14:35] <pitti> fader_: right, -intel driver not working on some/all i845/i855
[14:35] <slangasek> bug #304871
[14:35] <slangasek> ScottK's feedback was that the problem was resolved for him with the beta
[14:35] <ScottK> pitti: From last week's meeting I did test with i865 and it WFM.
[14:36] <fader_> pitti: I'm looking through the hardware list to find the machines that have those chipsets, as we don't currently have a good automated way to find that out
[14:36] <pitti> fader_: many thanks
[14:36] <fader_> I'll coordinate with him to get him that list and any other details he needs
[14:36] <fader_> np :)
[14:37] <heno> We expect a spike in bug reports after Beta and would appreciate it everyone gave and hand in triaging new bugs
[14:38] <heno> we will focus mainly on that next week
[14:38] <rickspencer3> heno: any particular areas that would most helpful to look at?
[14:38] <heno> bdmurray is preparing a list of 'bugs filed since beta'
[14:38] <heno> rickspencer3: first of all bugs for packages each person cares about
[14:39] <pitti> noted
[14:39] <heno> the installer usually gets a fresh influx too
[14:39] <heno> (that's it from QA)
[14:40] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
[14:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
[14:40] <slangasek> (pitti already said 'nothing new for desktop' :)
[14:40] <slangasek> lool: anything you need to raise?
[14:40] <lool> (may I dump my usual status?)
[14:40] <slangasek> yes
[14:41] <lool> list of specs and bugs on our radar <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>; current high-level status per topic:
[14:41] <lool> - UNR good shape except for intel graphics regression on eeepcs (349314, 344443)
[14:41] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[14:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[14:41] <cjwatson> lool: I'm aware that there are quite a few things where the mobile team is waiting for foundations to fix stuff, and I'd like to make sure nothing is slipping through the cracks. Is MobileTeam/Roadmap the thing we should be monitoring?
[14:41] <lool> pgraner: Mind if I milestone that linux bug for jaunty?
[14:41] <cjwatson> lool: alternatively, if you routinely target the relevant bugs to jaunty, that's fine too
[14:41] <lool> cjwatson: It's a good mean to put things on our radar
[14:41] <lool> cjwatson: So happy if you put something there which we should keep an eye on
[14:42] <cjwatson> lool: no, I meant the other way round
[14:42] <cjwatson> lool: things that are already on your radar that should be on ours
[14:42] <lool> cjwatson: Then no, it's where we track what we have to do
[14:42] <lool> cjwatson: I guess we should use bugs and subscribe to them ourselves when we're blocked by foundation stuff
[14:42] <pgraner> lool: yea milestone it
[14:42] <cjwatson> in that case, if you could target relevant bugs to jaunty, that's the best way to make sure we don't forget
[14:43] <lool> It's a good question, we often wonder how to track e.g. a kernel issue which affects the team which we'd like to keep an eye on but we can't do anything about ourselves
[14:43] <cjwatson> lool: for example, should bug 347350 be RC for jaunty?
[14:43] <lool> cjwatson: Well I was personally reluctant to push for too high standards in screen resolution, but that's my personal position; it would be high on our list of things we'd like to see fixed on jaunty though
[14:44] <lool> (general focus on playing nicer with small screens basically)
[14:44] <cjwatson> I'll target it and leave a comment to that effect
[14:44] <lool> pgraner: thanks, done
[14:44] <lool> cjwatson: I'm happy to comment on any bugs where you need guidance on priority/importance, or raise them in my team
[14:44] <lool> - MID image is okay-ish; needed extra care for beta
[14:45] <lool> - armel netbook images: pretty bad beta outcome with versatile and iop32x broken
[14:45] <lool> , so only ixp4xx to release; imx51 netboot will be added with next d-i upload
[14:45] <lool> - armel's "iMX51 Babbage": first image released in beta required extra hacks; working on merging everything in archive; lots of hardware support issues with the kernel which need FSL patches (wired network, USB, wifi); need testplan
[14:45] <lool> - VFP libs, NEON: in progress; list of bugs covered earlier
[14:45] <lool> - other milestoned bugs: generally coming back to focusing on them after the bab
[14:45] <lool> bage/beta push
[14:45] <lool> - Poulsbo drivers: late, no progress yet on finding out why the intrepid drivers don't work for us but work for Intel; looking harder and harder to get in jaunty; Intel claimed they targetted mesa 7.3, so a mesa update at this point could i
[14:45] <lool> n theory impact these drivers, but given that's 7.3 => dev and 7.4 => stable it's not supposed to
[14:45] <lool> (sorry vim is unhappy today)
[14:45] <lool> - touchscreen support: ogra didn't have time to work on this due to babbage, and we lack support for a bunch of them
[14:46] <slangasek> lool: what kind of 'not work' did you get with poulsbo?
[14:46] <lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/138987/ is the same dump, but readable
[14:46] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/138987/ is the same dump, but readable
[14:46] <lool> slangasek: StevenK says the GL support doesn't work at all; Intel says it does
[14:47] <lool> Like glxgears not even working
[14:47] <slangasek> ok
[14:47] <lool> I'm a bit worried that we're at that point for the drivers
[14:47] <slangasek> just asking because mythbuntu was having issues with mesa, superm1 uploaded a fix to revert a couple of patches post-beta
[14:47] <slangasek> but it doesn't sound like it's related
[14:48] <lool> No, I'm mentionning the state of intrepid
[14:48] <slangasek> oh, ok
[14:48] <lool> Because the packaging was supposed to be copied from the intrepid one when complete
[14:48] <slangasek> right
[14:49] <lool> So the chain of actions which would give us jaunty drivers is a bit scary: a) fix 3D b) agree on way forward for jaunty packaging (stevenk/bryce) c) push to jaunty and test
[14:49] <slangasek> right
[14:49] <lool> However on the mesa side, it's not looking happy with DRI ATM
[14:50] <lool> This is not really related to mobile, but elisa upstream contacted me about a regression in mesa which is fixed in 7.4RC2
[14:50] <lool> bug #349127
[14:50] <lool> And they say it affects other; I poked bryce to check whether that was worth tracking for jaunty; I personally think it is if we have a reviewable patch
[14:51]  * slangasek targets it to jaunty pre-emptively
[14:51] <lool> are there questions from anyone with the mobile status?  anything I forgot to cover?
[14:51] <slangasek> I think that covers it for me, thanks
[14:52] <slangasek> [TOPIC] kernel team
[14:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team
[14:52] <pgraner> slangasek: We have a Broadcomm STA driver update landing soonish that fixes lots of reported issues.
[14:52] <pgraner> slangasek: LP 334994 there is a race in the kernel somewhere which is tricky to trigger on real hardware which leads to the kernel not clearing down some sysfs state.
[14:52] <slangasek> the Broadcom should already be in, I think
[14:53] <pgraner> slangasek: apw is on the RAID one
[14:53] <apw> ack
[14:53]  * slangasek nods
[14:53] <pgraner> other than those its the usual ARM goodness
[14:54] <pgraner> Thats it for kernel team
[14:54] <lool> pgraner: In general, babbage status is pretty bad kernel side
[14:54] <slangasek> bug #343254, hmm, didn't I see that discussed in the linux changelog?
[14:54] <lool> I know kernel team is waiting for FSL patches, but I jsut want to raise it that we really care a lot if you can get them in
[14:54] <pgraner> lool: hense my comment about ARM
[14:54] <lool> pgraner: Yup, echo-ing your concerns with my specific issues :)
[14:55] <pgraner> lool: Freescale is the issue unfortunately
[14:55] <lool> Ack; I think with the beta image we have a better basis to demo our problems
[14:56] <lool> The other non-FSL thing would be the versatile image which was broken just before beta
[14:56] <lool> I don't know whether it's worth fighting apparmor there; I don't think it ever worked for us there; happy if you fix it but I don't mind disabling it on verstaile
[14:56] <pgraner> slangasek: don't know about that one, dtchen has been working it
[14:57] <slangasek> pgraner: yep; pinged him
[14:57] <lool> Hmm indeed, I'm having pulseaudio issues myself
[14:57] <pgraner> lool: we just got it AA working for the imx51 we'll look at it on versatile.
[14:58] <lool> pgraner: Yes, I think it was turned on in versatile because it was believed the fix would also allow it to work under versatile
[14:58] <pgraner> lool: bug number?
[14:58] <slangasek> versatile/apparmor is already targeted; bug #348835
[14:58] <lool> 348835
[14:58] <pgraner> lool: ack, we'll get on it
[14:59] <lool> thanks
[14:59] <slangasek> are there any other actionable issues wrt ARM, or that we need to get on the bug list?
[14:59] <lool> The FSL dependent ones are not milestoned, the rest is properly milestoned
[15:00] <pgraner> slangasek: we are working to the bug list and working with Freescale so it will go up to kernel freeze
[15:01]  * slangasek nods
[15:01] <slangasek> cjwatson: was there anything else we needed to discuss for foundations, or are we covered?
[15:01] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
[15:02] <cjwatson> I think I covered it
[15:02] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[15:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
[15:02] <dendrobates-> hi
[15:02] <slangasek> heya
[15:02] <dendrobates->  a couple of release critical bugs in eucalyptus.
[15:02] <dendrobates-> bug 347622
[15:03] <dendrobates-> bug 347629
[15:03] <dendrobates-> we are also watching bug 334994 which the kernel team is working on.
[15:04]  * slangasek nods
[15:04] <dendrobates-> it affects vm's, however, we are not how valid a usecase. apart from testing, software raid has in vm's
[15:05] <dendrobates-> That's all that new.
[15:05] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[15:05] <slangasek> I think that's it, then
[15:05] <slangasek> anything else from anyone?  speak now or hold your peace until the same time next week
[15:05] <slangasek> (or until #ubuntu-devel)
[15:06] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:06] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:06.
[15:06] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[15:06] <lool> Thanks
[15:07] <pitti> thanks everyone
[15:52] <al-maisan> hello MTecknology, how are things?
[15:52] <al-maisan> I am pinging you re. my membership to "Official Ubuntu Members"
[15:52] <MTecknology> yup, I'm here
[15:53] <al-maisan> I received an email suggesting to meet here
[15:53] <MTecknology> Just an FYI, the group membership is for official Ubuntu members only
[15:53] <al-maisan> sure
[15:53] <MTecknology> are you a member?
[15:54] <al-maisan> yes, I am muharem@ubuntu.com but my linkedin accont is tied to a different email
[15:54] <MTecknology> can you give me a link to your profile?
[15:54] <al-maisan> MTecknology: https://edge.launchpad.net/~al-maisan
[15:55] <MTecknology> I don't see you having an @ubuntu.com email addy
[15:56] <al-maisan> just a sec
[15:56] <MTecknology> al-maisan: actually, give me a minute - I'm discussing something with someone right now
[15:56] <al-maisan> sure
[15:57] <MTecknology> I've been basing it off of membership to ~ubuntumembers. You're the second canonical employee not an ubuntu member - I'm not 100% sure what I should be doing with this :P
[15:57] <al-maisan> OK
[15:57] <al-maisan> take it easy
[15:58] <ScottK> MTecknology: Do you have any idea how many copies of your mail some people got?
[15:58] <al-maisan> I assumed I am a member
[15:58] <MTecknology> You're approved, but I'll need to think over that whole thing again. You should apply for membership :)
[15:58] <MTecknology> it'll make it easier for me :)
[15:59] <MTecknology> ScottK: 2 should be the max, and that should only have been to a few
[15:59] <al-maisan> MTecknology: will do.
[15:59] <MTecknology> al-maisan: I assume you know where to apply at?
[15:59]  * al-maisan just saw this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[15:59] <MTecknology> yup - thansk for chatting with me
[16:00] <ScottK> MTecknology: Three for me.
[16:00] <al-maisan> MTecknology: thank you.
[16:00] <MTecknology> ScottK: what route did they all take? :S
[16:02] <ScottK> MTecknology: One for Kubuntu members, one for Ubuntu members, and one for Ubuntu core-dev.
[16:03] <MTecknology> ScottK: .... Oh sh**. I forgot that other teams are members of the team
[16:03] <MTecknology> I'm going to file a bug about that happening. I'm sorry about that.
[16:04] <ScottK> MTecknology: Well that's fine, but I also believe you're abusing Launchpad.  I think it's grossly offtopic to use the contact a user feature to promote a social network.
[16:05] <ScottK> I've got it on my TODO to mail you, but since I saw you here ....
[16:06] <MTecknology> ScottK: I was trying to figure out a better way to hit the "target market", but Icouldn't figure one out. A few people enjoyed that I did it that way actually.
[16:07] <ScottK> MTecknology: I think your post to planet did that fine.
[16:07] <MTecknology> oh
[16:07] <MTecknology> ScottK: I am sorry - forgive me? :)
[16:08] <ScottK> MTecknology: If I've got a really cool Ubunt t-shirt I want to sell to ubuntu members, is it appropriate for me to reach my target market this way?
[16:08] <ScottK> MTecknology: I suppose, but just understand that some people are very sensitive about unwanted intrusions in their inbox.
[16:09] <MTecknology> ScottK: ya. I'll think about it a little longer next time
[16:10]  * ScottK nods
[16:11] <MTecknology> ScottK: on the other side of the fence though - it's up to 88 members now
[16:11] <ScottK> MTecknology: So spamming is justified based on it works?
[16:12] <MTecknology> ScottK: for some people that make a living off it :P - but no, that was just a side comment
[16:12] <MTecknology> I'll run away now
[16:12] <ScottK> on the other side of the fence comes across as justification to me.
[16:12] <ScottK> OK