[07:44] <pitti> Good morning
[07:51] <huats> morning everyone
[08:07] <pitti> hey huats
[08:08] <huats> hello pitti
[08:08] <huats> how are you ?
[08:08] <pitti> huats: pretty good, thanks; you?
[08:09] <huats> same here :)
[08:09] <huats> thanks !
[08:15] <seb128> good morning there
[08:15] <huats> morning mister seb128
[08:15] <huats> ;)
[08:16] <seb128> lut huats
[08:16] <huats> how are you seb128 ?
[08:16] <robert_ancell_> seb128: good morning
[08:16] <robert_ancell_> pitti: hi also!
[08:16] <seb128> huats: good apparently, you? ;-)
[08:16] <seb128> hey robert_ancell_!
[08:17] <seb128> robert_ancell_: how was you flight back?
[08:17] <huats> so am I !
[08:17] <huats> robert_ancell_: hey robert
[08:17] <robert_ancell_> huats: hey!
[08:17] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:17] <pitti> good morning robert_ancell_
[08:17] <pitti> made it back in one piece?
[08:18] <robert_ancell_> flight was long and uneventful...  And I think I watched every movie in their catalogue
[08:18] <seb128> did you have the same movies on the way back?
[08:19] <robert_ancell_> seb128: yes.  So I had to watch the dregs on the way back
[08:22] <pitti> robert_ancell_: seems you need more laptop spare batteries
[08:24] <seb128> bah, time after beta is crazy for bugs activity
[08:24] <robert_ancell_> pitti: yeah no power points on economy class.  And no power points in Abu Dhabi - new airport but no facilities
[08:25] <seb128> I got almost 700 bug emails during the weekend
[08:26] <seb128> pitti, mvo: want to help on the sponsoring queue today? ;-)
[08:26] <pitti> seb128: heh, I only got 350
[08:26] <pitti> seb128: ah, yes
[08:26] <seb128> hey MacSlow
[08:27] <MacSlow> greetings seb128
[08:27] <pitti> hey MacSlow, good morning
[08:27] <seb128> MacSlow: did you get my email about notify-osd? ;-)
[08:27] <pitti> seb128: I'll start with uploading the three new DX versions, shall I?
[08:27] <pitti> oh, right, I saw your reply
[08:27] <seb128> pitti: I did review notify-osd during the weekend, got my reply?
[08:27] <pitti> seb128: I'll start with the indicator stuff
[08:27] <MacSlow> seb128, email is slow today
[08:28] <seb128> pitti: if you want, thanks
[08:28] <seb128> MacSlow: I sent on saturday, let me copy that here if you didn't get it
[08:28] <MacSlow> seb128, I'm checking
[08:28] <seb128> MacSlow:
[08:28] <seb128> "I've looked at the update, the install has this change though
[08:28] <seb128> "< /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
[08:28] <seb128> ---
[08:28] <seb128> > /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in"
[08:28] <seb128> which breaks the dbus autospawning and make it not run"
[08:29] <mvo> seb128: sure
[08:29] <MacSlow> *sigh*
[08:29] <seb128> mvo: want to look to the brasero update in the queue? that's a svn change robert_ancell_ did backport should be no issue
[08:30] <mvo> seb128: ok
[08:30] <seb128> thanks
[08:31] <MacSlow> gee... my evolution just doesn't come around?
[08:32] <MacSlow> wtf
[08:32] <robert_ancell_> seb128: any last requests for my end of day?
[08:33] <seb128> robert_ancell_: not really, you should try to fix your timezone, I will probably drop you an email with some tasks or assign you some bugs during my day
[08:33] <seb128> robert_ancell_: so you have something to do for tomorrow ;-)
[08:33] <seb128> robert_ancell_: did you manage to find interesting to do today? I see that you did some bug triage ;-)
[08:35] <robert_ancell_> seb128: yeah pretty much triage and admin regarding travel today.
[08:36] <seb128> ok
[08:36] <robert_ancell_> seb128: I'm planning this week to start actively triaging a new package a day.  Currently gnome-games, gcalctool, vinagre.
[08:36] <seb128> enjoy your evening there, I've nothing specific waiting today so I think there is no point for your to stay around for nothing
[08:36] <seb128> that sounds a good plan!
[08:36] <pitti> robert_ancell_: sleep well!
[08:36] <seb128> I will probably assign you some bugs or updates during the week so watch your assigned bugs too ;-)
[08:37]  * robert_ancell_ stomach rumbles... Time for dinner!
[08:37] <robert_ancell_> seb128: ok, will do.
[08:38] <MacSlow> seb128, my evo is really dead atm.
[08:38] <MacSlow> seb128, trying to kill and restart it
[08:38] <robert_ancell_> ok, see you guys tomorrow!
[08:39] <seb128> MacSlow: I copied the email there
[08:39] <seb128> MacSlow: you just install the service.in rather than the .service
[08:40] <pitti> MacSlow: sounds like your intent is to create the .service at build time with some detected stuff? I just wonder what kind of detection you'd do during build?
[08:40] <seb128> pitti:
[08:40] <seb128> Exec=@LIBEXECDIR@/notify-osd
[08:40] <MacSlow> @LIBEXECDIR@
[08:40] <pitti> aah
[08:41] <pitti> odd, ISTR that we had that for ages already
[08:41] <seb128> service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
[08:41] <seb128> I guess you want to change that
[08:41] <seb128> to service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
[08:42] <MacSlow> seb128, I never touched the packaging branch of notify-osd before. So I'm surprised this turned up just now
[08:42] <seb128> that's not in the packaging it's in the upstream tarball
[08:44] <seb128> MacSlow: it's commit 257 which broke it
[08:44] <seb128>  servicedir=/usr/share/dbus-1/services
[08:44] <seb128> -service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
[08:44] <seb128> +service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
[08:44] <seb128> +
[08:44] <seb128> +EXTRA_DIST= $(service_DATA)
[08:44] <seb128> you want to keep _DATA to .service
[08:44] <seb128> and add the .in to EXTRA_DIST
[08:44]  * MacSlow wishes we had automated builds after each commit to catch that earlier
[08:44] <MacSlow> package-builds that is
[08:45] <seb128> MacSlow: I can fix it in the package for this round but please fix the upstream code too
[08:45] <pitti> seb128: you're going to update notify-osd then, while you are at it?
[08:46] <seb128> pitti: I've the update ready, with bugs closed in the changelog etc, I was just waiting to sort that with MacSlow to upload
[08:46]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:46]  * pitti hugs MacSlow, too
[08:46]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:47] <MacSlow> changes from David
[08:47] <seb128> davidbarth: ^ ;-)
[08:47] <crevette> hello gentlemen
[08:47] <seb128> lut crevette
[08:48] <crevette> salut seb128
[08:48] <MacSlow> seb128, I'll ask him why he changed that on the morning-call
[08:48] <seb128> ok
[08:49] <seb128> MacSlow: I think that was to have the .service.in the make dist tarball
[08:49] <seb128> MacSlow: ie adding the service.in to EXTRA_DIST
[08:49] <seb128> but that was done incorrectly
[08:50] <MacSlow> service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
[08:50] <MacSlow> EXTRA_DIST= $(service_DATA) org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
[08:50] <MacSlow> I assume that's better
[08:50] <seb128> service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
[08:52] <seb128> EXTRA_DIST=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
[08:52] <seb128> rather
[08:52] <seb128> you don't need the .service in the tarball
[08:52] <seb128> it's built from the .in during the build
[08:52] <MacSlow> hm... yeah
[08:53] <crevette> seb128, about the inclusion of gnome-user-share by default in ubuntu, against which component should I open a bug? ubuntu?
[08:53] <MacSlow> seb128, fix committed and pushed
[08:53] <seb128> MacSlow: thanks
[08:53] <MacSlow> seb128, thanks!
[08:53] <seb128> crevette: none
[08:54] <seb128> crevette: those things should be discussed on mailing list not on a bug tracker when nobody out of bug triagers will read it
[08:54] <crevette> okay
[08:56] <mvo> seb128: I assume bug #344431 should be added to the brasero upload as well?
[08:56] <pitti> seb128: taking libunique, or do you have a lock on it?
[08:56] <seb128> mvo: please do
[08:57] <seb128> pitti: I'm doing bugs I've commented on, ie libunique and pidgin
[08:57] <pitti> seb128: ack
[08:57] <seb128> pitti: would be nice if you could look at fusa, it unbreaks translations and has a freeze exception request
[08:59] <seb128> brb, restarting session to make sure the notify-osd update works correctly
[09:01] <seb128> ok, works
[09:01] <seb128> MacSlow, pitti: new notify-osd uploaded
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: fusa> taking
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: yay you, thanks
[09:01] <MacSlow> seb128, sweeeeet!
[09:02] <seb128> MacSlow: good work on the new version, nice to see several crashers fixed there ;-)
[09:02] <tseliot> seb128: as regards bug 346964
[09:02] <tseliot> seb128: I have found a workaround which makes the gnome menu and the panel launch apps using the right display. I haven't found the real problem though. And nautilus keeps opening files using the wrong display. Shall we include my patch for gnome-panel anyway?
[09:03] <MacSlow> seb128, yeah... put my personal "pet hates" about notify-osd I wasn't able to fix yet... but crashers enjoy higher prio :)
[09:04] <seb128> MacSlow: good that we sat down with davidbarth at the office too, I was able to point him the fallback icon issue too ;-)
[09:05] <pitti> hey tseliot, good morning
[09:05] <tseliot> seb128: I get the display name from g_app_launch_context_get_display() and set it with g_setenv(). I know it shouldn't be necessary but I can't find the actual bug in the gtk (gdk) library
[09:05] <tseliot> pitti: good morning to you ;)
[09:06] <seb128> tseliot: can you try to get vuntz's opinion on the change?
[09:06] <tseliot> seb128: I already talked to vuntz but we haven't found the real problem yet
[09:06] <MacSlow> seb128, doing in person meetings/sprints is always good
[09:06] <seb128> tseliot: would he accept the gnome-panel change upstream?
[09:07] <tseliot> seb128: no, I guess not since it's not a bug in gnome-panel but in gtk (I *think*)
[09:08] <mvo> asac: should firefox in intrepid show me a restart required notification in the browser itself? I remeber seeing that some time ago, but do not in the intrepid version. is that expected?
[09:08] <seb128> tseliot: I would prefer to wait and try to fix the real issue for now
[09:08] <tseliot> seb128: but my patch helps and unless the bug is fixed before jaunty's release, our users will have a rather frustrating experience with multiple screens
[09:08] <tseliot> ok
[09:08] <seb128> tseliot: we can still include your patch in a week if we didn't find something else
[09:09] <seb128> tseliot: did you open an upstream gtk bug?
[09:09] <tseliot> seb128: sounds like a plan :-)
[09:09] <tseliot> no, but I'll do it soon
[09:10] <seb128> thanks
[09:26] <tseliot> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577273
[09:26] <tseliot> just FYI
[09:26] <seb128> tseliot: thanks
[09:26] <tseliot> np
[09:26] <seb128> tseliot: I though that was a GTK bug?
[09:27] <tseliot> seb128: maybe. I can't see where the bug is. In the bug report I suggested that I can be a bug in GTK
[09:27] <seb128> tseliot: ok, I was suggesting to open in GTK in this case so you might get a reply from the GTK guys
[09:28] <seb128> tseliot: nobody out of vuntz will read this one on gnome-panel and vuntz already did know about it
[09:28] <tseliot> seb128: I looked at gdk and went up to glib but I didn't find anything suspicious
[09:28] <seb128> ok
[09:28] <tseliot> oh
[09:28] <seb128> btw the nautilus issue should be fixed in svn
[09:28] <seb128> did you try their change?
[09:28] <tseliot> seb128: are GTK bugs reported in the gnome bugzilla?
[09:29] <seb128> yes, gtk+ component there
[09:29] <tseliot> seb128: yes, I did and it doesn't seem to solve the problem
[09:29] <seb128> it should solve the places menu problem no?
[09:29] <tseliot> seb128: no, it doesn't, at least not here
[09:30] <tseliot> which makes sense if it's a gtk bug
[09:30] <tseliot> seb128: is it possible to reassing the bug to a different product in the gnome bugzilla?
[09:30] <seb128> tseliot: yes, the component is a combo, just pick an another component there
[09:32] <tseliot> ok, let me change it
[09:33] <tseliot> seb128: shall I leave the "target milestone" empty?
[09:34] <seb128> yes
[09:34] <tseliot> ok
[09:34] <tseliot> done
[09:36] <seb128> good
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: since bug 345244 is fixed upstream, we just wait for a new tarball instead of sponsoring the fix?
[09:44] <seb128> pitti: you can sponsor the fix, new tarballs are in 3 weeks
[09:44] <seb128> pitti: we can give testing to fixes before that
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: ack, doing
[09:44] <seb128> thanks
[09:49] <pitti> seb128: I don't think that the transient unlock breakage in bug 345107 is too bad, but it seems you'd rather want to stall the upload?
[09:50] <seb128> pitti: well, it means that users will have no way to go back to their session
[09:50] <seb128> pitti: ie they are good to power down the box with everything they have open running
[09:51] <pitti> seb128: if all else fails, the postinst could killall gnome-screensaver?
[09:51] <pitti> that's a very big hammer, though
[09:51] <seb128> that would unlock locked sessions while the user might be not there
[09:51] <seb128> which is a security concern
[09:51] <pitti> that would leave the user without screensaver at all until reboot
[09:52] <seb128> it's not unusual to let the computer do the upgrade while being away
[09:54] <pitti> true that
[09:56] <seb128> I would really prefer to get that bug fixed before doing the upgrade
[09:56] <seb128> I'm really not comfortable with that issue
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: ack
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: taking bug 341487
[09:56] <seb128> pitti: thanks ;-)
[09:56] <seb128> I'm fighting bug log and help gvfs upstream to debug some smb issue right now
[09:59] <mvo> asac: I just talked to a old friend who is pretty computer literate and tried ubuntu for the first time. for him network-manager was a bit of a challenge because under windows its the right-click that shows the available wireless networks. so he clicked right and searched and searched and did not find it. have you seen similar problems?
[10:04] <asac> mvo: hmm.
[10:05] <asac> mvo: i havent done much usability testing here ;)
[10:05] <mvo> asac: I was just curious if someone reported a bug
[10:06] <mvo> asac: probably not something we can do for jaunty, but might be worthwhile to consider for karmic
[10:08] <asac> mvo: yeah, but not sure how to best do it. I think dx plans to do some user experiments.
[10:09] <asac> mvo: but the fact that he found the wireless disconnected icon means that its not that bad ;) ... at least he got it almost right
[10:11] <asac> mvo: so one idea i could think off is to make the connection editor more powerful, so you can also connect from there
[10:12] <asac> meaning users that dont left click find the "Edit Connections" (maybe "Manage Connections") and then can configure and directly connect in the dialog
[10:25] <mvo> asac: yeah, I was thinking the same. if edit connections would be more powerful
[10:46] <hyperair> pitti: regarding nautilus-share, i accidentally uploaded a wrong patch. diff'd the wrong thing in git
[10:57] <mvo> asac: I reported #351487 about it (just FYI)
[10:57] <asac> mvo: cool ;)
[10:59] <asac> pasted my input there
[10:59] <mvo> thanks
[11:08] <tseliot> asac: news on network-manager for hardy? (sorry to be a pain)
[11:08] <tseliot> s/to be/ for being/
[11:09] <asac> tseliot: what do you want? 0.7.1?
[11:10] <tseliot> asac: yep
[11:10] <asac> i think you can be happy that we didnt upload that there
[11:10] <asac> there has been breakage now and then
[11:10] <asac> i will wait till its final ;)
[11:10] <asac> hopefully soonish
[11:11] <tseliot> asac: the only reason why we need it is for this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/chelsea/+bug/327247/
[11:11] <tseliot> :-/
[11:13] <tseliot> ok, let's wait for the final release
[11:16] <asac> tseliot: hopefully will happen this week ;)
[11:16] <asac> if it doesnt happen you can be lucky you dont have it yet
[11:16] <tseliot> asac: ah, so very soon
[11:16] <tseliot> good
[11:16] <asac> as it means we founda nother bad issue ;)
[11:17] <asac> we wanted to release 0.7.1 final 3 three weeks ago
[11:17] <asac> but there were bad regressions in some part of modem detection
[11:17] <tseliot> ok, so you took some time to fix the regressions
[11:19] <tseliot> fair enough
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, so I should or shouldn't upload bug 270644?
[11:20] <seb128> pitti: just do it, I was going to do it because it's ready for upload I added the comment just to point that it's not worth backporting small changes
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: ok, doing then
[11:20]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[11:20]  * pitti hugs seb128 back
[11:20] <seb128> I'm almost done catching up with my bug emails
[11:21] <pitti> nice
[11:21]  * pitti didn't even start with them yet
[11:32] <seb128> ArneGoetje: hey, could you have a look at why current language packs in jaunty have no evolution-data-server-2.26
[11:32] <seb128> they seem to still have -2.24 for evolution-data-server and evolution-exchange
[11:33] <seb128> where current are 2.26
[11:34] <ArneGoetje> seb128: I'll check later
[11:35] <seb128> ArneGoetje: thanks
[12:03] <Keybuk> pitti: so DeviceKit is even more no-more now
[12:04] <Keybuk> DeviceKit-* will talk to udev directly
[12:04] <Keybuk> (not even via dbus)
[12:04] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, not even in udev-extras?
[12:04] <pitti> oh-uh
[12:04] <Keybuk> no, we finally read the book on netlink
[12:04] <Keybuk> and discovered that udev can, once it has processed the event, send a message *back* on the netlink socket
[12:05] <Keybuk> so it does that
[12:05] <pitti> Keybuk: I don't see a new DK-power release
[12:05] <Keybuk> which means anything can open the uevent netlink socket, switch to udev's multicast group, and receive uevents post-udev-processing
[12:05] <pitti> if there is one soon, I'd like to update that in universe and remove the devicekit package
[12:05] <Keybuk> this is all karmic stuff
[12:06] <pitti> Keybuk: you loose all the support for multiple types, argument marshalling, etc., though?
[12:06] <Keybuk> we won't have the udev that does this until then, I'm intending to not upgrade it between now and release ;)
[12:06] <pitti> ah, ok
[12:06] <pitti> I just leave them like they are then
[12:06] <Keybuk> pitti: DeviceKit doesn't really have multiple types now
[12:06] <pitti> they work right now, with the g-p-m in the -desktop PPA
[12:06] <Keybuk> *nods*
[12:08] <pitti> interesting juggle
[12:14] <Keybuk> indeed
[13:07] <Keybuk> mvo: I realise this is the most silly of issues, but do you know if I can make it so the desktop background *also* moves when I switch viewports? :p
[13:07] <Keybuk> the whole "windows vanishing while the desktop and panel stay where they were" thing, while clever, is really freaking me out :p
[13:11]  * Keybuk figures it out
[13:18] <mvo> Keybuk: you can get the old behaviour back if you go to ccsm and go to "wall" and remove the non slidding windows there
[13:30] <hggdh> seb128, ping
[13:31] <seb128> hggdh: hi
[13:32] <hggdh> hi seb128, with libpst accepted, should I open a MIR for it?
[13:32] <seb128> yes please
[13:32] <hggdh> k will do
[13:33] <seb128> thanks
[13:33] <seb128> and sorry you got so much trouble getting it reviewed
[13:33] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: i see ekiga source has been uploaded, but it isn't built
[13:33] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: ah, I bet it needs some NEWing, let me look
[13:33] <seb128> replacing an existant lib by an another codebase is not a common scenario ;-)
[13:33] <hggdh> heh
[13:34] <hggdh> just my luck, very first package had to be a complex issue
[13:35] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: hm, nothing in NEW; ptlib is current on all arches, and opal on all but armel
[13:35] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: (did you get an FTBFS mail for opal/armel?)
[13:35]  * kenvandine_wk looks
[13:35] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: ah, it's building right now
[13:35] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: seems slangasek just NEWed those some hours ago
[13:36] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[13:36] <kenvandine_wk> great
[13:36] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: ok, opal/armel is just "needs building", not ftbfs
[13:38] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: where can i look to see  build status?
[13:41] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opal -> click on topmost version
[13:42] <kenvandine_wk> oh
[13:42] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[13:42] <kenvandine_wk> i see
[15:06] <pitti> seb128: hm, for a few days now, using gpg invokes "pinentry" and it doesn't remember the passphrase for very long
[15:06] <pitti> seb128: is that an intended change?
[15:06] <seb128> not that I know
[15:07] <seb128> seahorse didn't change recently that I know
[15:08] <seb128> rickspencer3: pidgin still crashing?
[15:36] <phomes> seb128: wrt bug 339337 I just wanted to make sure it was noticed that sudoku no longer needs numpy i 2.26. The comments suggest that you are holding back on removing numpy for sudoku. (numpy was needed up to 2.25.92)
[15:37] <seb128> phomes: thanks for the comment we did remove the depends on numpy the comment was to raise that it created an issue there
[15:37] <seb128> phomes: we didn't add the depends back but planned to see what was required for sudoku, good that you tackled this one ;-)
[15:42] <phomes> seb128: I have removed the dependency on gnomeprint on trunk. It's a rather invasive change but since it is the only dependent app on gnomeprint it might be interesting.
[15:42] <seb128> phomes: that's already in jaunty
[15:42] <seb128> phomes: but thanks again ;-)
[15:43] <phomes> seb128: oh. You guys are quick :)
[15:43] <seb128> phomes: well it was the only thing still using libgnomeprint that's why I pinged on the upstream bug
[15:43] <seb128> robert_ancell backported the change some days ago
[15:44] <seb128> the print result is a bit less nice than the libgnomeprint one but closer of what you have on screen
[15:46] <phomes> seb128: yes. I was planning to adjust that a bit. Should I ping you guys if I make patches to make it nicer upstream?
[15:47] <seb128> that would be nice thanks
[16:20] <jcastro> didrocks: ping
[16:22] <seb128> jcastro: hey, you should just ask your question ;-)
[16:22] <jcastro> heh
[16:23] <seb128> jcastro: do you know if uds invitations have been sent yet?
[16:23] <jcastro> I am working on it right now, just got the go ahead to proceed
[16:23] <jcastro> they should be out in an hour or so
[16:23] <andreasn> when is UDS?
[16:23] <seb128> ok good
[16:24] <jcastro> seb128: sometimes people don't fill out email address in lp so I have to go hunt people down.
[16:24] <jcastro> *cough* didrocks
[16:24] <jcastro> andreasn: may 25-29
[16:24] <andreasn> jcastro, cool. I might come
[16:24] <seb128> jcastro: ok ;-)
[16:24] <jcastro> andreasn: !
[16:24] <jcastro> andreasn: I miss you man
[16:25] <andreasn> when was the last time we met?
[16:25] <andreasn> I was in your country in October, but I can't recall if we met then
[16:26] <seb128> vuntz: hello? ;-)
[16:26] <andreasn> jcastro, are you going to GUADEC?
[16:27] <seb128> vuntz: I see that you commited session storing changes to svn
[16:27] <didrocks> jcastro: sorry for hiding my e-mail :) you can try didrocks -at- ubuntu.com
[16:27]  * didrocks hides ;)
[16:27] <seb128> vuntz: is that much different of the patch in bugzilla? did you fix the restart case?
[16:27] <dobey> hey andreasn
[16:28] <andreasn> hi dobey
[16:28] <dobey> andreasn: you *should* come to UDS
[16:28] <jcastro> didrocks: I found it.
[16:29] <andreasn> dobey, lots of stuff happening in May, but yeah, sure, I'll do my best
[16:29] <dobey> heh
[16:29] <andreasn> because LGM is in May too I think
[16:29] <dobey> bah
[16:29] <didrocks> jcastro: damned, unmasked ;)
[16:29] <dobey> LGM is in canuckland though
[16:29] <dobey> skip LGM and just go to UDS :)
[16:30] <dobey> barcelona > montreal
[16:30] <vuntz> seb128: it's a bit better than the patch in bugzilla, but still more or less the same
[16:30] <vuntz> seb128: restart/shutdown is not fixed yet
[16:30] <seb128> ok thanks
[16:30] <seb128> so probably not worth doing a svn snapshot yet
[16:30] <vuntz> (much harder than what I originally thought, because of ConsoleKit)
[16:30] <vuntz> nope
[16:31] <seb128> let me know when you do changes which need testing
[16:31] <seb128> I can snapshot svn to jaunty
[16:31] <andreasn> dobey, I hope I can do both in the end
[16:31] <vuntz> seb128: fwiw, I'll do a 2.26.0.90 tarball once the restart/shutdown thing is fixed
[16:31] <seb128> excellent thanks!
[16:31] <dobey> andreasn: yeah
[16:31] <andreasn> dobey, as LGM is at the beginning of the month anyway
[16:32] <dobey> ah
[16:33] <andreasn> where in Canada does Steven Garrity live?
[16:36] <seb128> pedro_: did you look upstream for bug #351347?
[16:36] <dobey> andreasn: PEI i think
[16:37] <dobey> andreasn: yeah, in PEI
[16:37] <pedro_> seb128: I'm doing it, bugzilla is taking ages though, haven't forgot about it
[16:37] <seb128> pedro_: ok, cool, I mark the email as read then ;-)
[16:38] <pedro_> seb128: ok :-)
[16:44] <kenvandine_wk> asac: do you know the status of the strings for bug 338389?
[16:45] <asac> kenvandine_wk: we flipped them, but there is an issue with missing icon
[16:45] <asac> not sure where this question comes from ;)
[16:45] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[16:45] <kenvandine_wk> talking to the dx guys, they are looking for status on the strings... if we are still waiting for translations, etc
[16:47] <Bojhan> mtp: png
[16:48] <Bojhan> mpt: ping
[16:56]  * kenvandine_wk -> lunch
[18:33]  * pitti -> Taekwondo, cu tomorrow
[18:44] <mpt> darn
[18:51] <Bojhan> mpt: hey
[18:52] <mpt> hello Bojhan
[18:52] <Bojhan> mpt: Hehe, hard time catching you. How are you doing?
[18:52] <mpt> Bojhan, crazy busy as usual
[18:53] <Bojhan> mpt: Hehe, I know the feeling
[18:54] <Bojhan> mpt: Well if you have any time, I would love to catch up a bit on ubuntu's efforts around ux and see how Drupal is similair and diffrent.
[18:54] <mpt> sure, now's good
[18:55] <Bojhan> mpt: oke great, so basicly all I know of your article, and I have been using it as ground work for a lot of improvements around our process
[18:57] <mpt> neat
[18:58] <Bojhan> mpt: Could you tell me abit about what you guys are doing, working on? I have just recently tested ubuntu, with my little cousins here, and they seemed to have completely missed they transferd from a windows to ubuntu envoirment
[19:04] <dobey> (curious: which article?)
[19:05] <Bojhan> dobey: http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2008/08/01/free-software-usability
[19:05] <mpt> Bojhan, for #1, companies that support Ubuntu (including Canonical, obviously), and companies that ship Ubuntu on their hardware (such as Dell and HP) have a financial interest in making it more usable. And Canonical is pushing distributed version control generally, though that hasn't produced noticable branch competition yet.
[19:06] <kenvandine_wk> holy crap... my laptop won't boot
[19:06] <mpt> Bojhan, for #2 we haven't done anything in particular yet (though we're hiring:-)
[19:07] <dobey> haha, "15 pixels of fame"
[19:09] <mpt> Bojhan, for #3, we have comments pages on wiki.ubuntu.com and (lots of) mailing list discussions, and we've implemented quite a few changes in response to those discussions (though not as many as some people would have liked)
[19:09] <dobey> lots of people get to see the result of what i did in webkit, but it's hard to point at safari and say 'i did that'
[19:10] <mpt> unless you're in "Help" > "Acknowledgments"
[19:10] <Bojhan> mpt: But from the community, is there no reconizements?
[19:10] <mpt> (and I guess most WebKit developers aren't)
[19:10] <mpt> Bojhan, I'm not sure. What's a reconizement?
[19:11] <Bojhan> mpt: Well at our confrences, core contributors and such are starting to state how active certain designers are in making drupal easier to use, that is a massive effort ect.
[19:11] <mpt> ah, right
[19:11] <mpt> Nothing like that yet
[19:12] <mpt> though sabdfl does have a habit of sponsoring people with excellent ideas to attend the Ubuntu Developer Summits :-)
[19:14] <mpt> For #4, in Canonical's new Design team we're working out a process for user testing by computer science classes and other organizations that want to contribute in a fairly reliable way
[19:15] <mpt> which will hopefully make us less reliant on "well, for *me* it works fine"
[19:16] <Bojhan> mpt: So you havn't done any slightly formal usability testing?
[19:16] <mpt> For #5 it's mainly a matter of leading by example. E.g. Ubuntu's new notification system had a design spec that was about 60% written before coding began.
[19:16] <mpt> Bojhan, we have on Launchpad, but not on Ubuntu yet
[19:18] <mpt> For #6, using the notification system as an example again, the design spec is extremely detailed so there's little room for whim (though the flip side of that is that it becomes hard for programmers to find the particular text they should be implementing right now)
[19:19] <Bojhan> Wow,
[19:19] <mpt> For #7, nothing yet
[19:20] <Bojhan> Thats quite something, I have yet to be able to pin a spec as leading for any patch yet
[19:20] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD is the spec in question
[19:23] <Bojhan> mpt: for #7 we are now in a trend of people asking for interface pattrens, to solve all of their issues
[19:23] <mpt> yes, there's a bit of that
[19:23] <mpt> like the Yahoo Web interface patterns
[19:24] <Bojhan> mpt: yhea, I am quite unsure how that is going to work out.
[19:24] <mpt> For #8, Gnome already has a culture of simplicity (and so do some individual projects, like Pidgin for example), and companies that make money from Ubuntu are starting to get interested in working on the stuff that's less sexy for volunteers
[19:25] <mpt> (with notable exceptions, e.g. Evan Dandrea worked on Windows-to-Ubuntu migration well before being hired by Canonical, and the Wubi guys are volunteers too)
[19:27] <mpt> #9 is a problem we haven't tackled yet. For example, one of my colleagues reported a bug a couple of weeks ago about a horribly-presented error message, and was fobbed off by a well-meaning QA volunteer who basically said "you should suggest this on brainstorm.ubuntu.com instead"
[19:27] <Bojhan> aww
[19:27] <mpt> She had to pull out a reference to the Gnome interface guidelines before the bug report was accepted :-)
[19:28] <Bojhan> mpt: I am going around just marking stuff as Critical bug, which need to be fixed for a release
[19:28] <Bojhan> aww :(
[19:29] <mpt> Good for you, if you have the authority
[19:30] <mpt> #10 is just an ongoing struggle, nothing much to say there
[19:30] <Bojhan> mpt: Well your culture is probally still 2x drupal's size, so we just have visability that makes it possible.
[19:30] <mpt> same with #11
[19:30] <mpt> true
[19:32] <mpt> For #12, Canonical's UX design team is 90% working from the same office in London. That doesn't much help the rest of the community, though.
[19:32] <mpt> For #13, see #5 above
[19:33] <Bojhan> so for #12 is Canonical the largest contributor to the UX of Ubuntu?
[19:33] <mpt> No, the largest contributor is the Gnome project
[19:34] <mpt> Gnome has regular meetings and hackfests, but is mostly distributed
[19:34] <Bojhan> Ahh
[19:34] <mpt> For #14 and #15, watch this space
[19:35] <Bojhan> mpt: I think that #14 is one of our biggest problems,
[19:36] <mpt> yeah, I guess that would be tricky for Web frameworks
[19:36] <Bojhan> mpt: basicly everything in Drupal is modulair, so everything has to be consistent for abstraction purposes.
[19:36] <mpt> in general
[19:37] <Bojhan> mpt: I must say there is so much overlap with our situation, the sole diffrence is probally that recently we had these "outside" UX people contracted to fix the usability or UX of Drupal.
[19:38] <mpt> ah, fun
[19:38] <Bojhan> mpt: Well I think you know them leisa reichelt and mark bolton
[19:39] <mpt> Bojhan, I met Leisa very briefly last week. I don't think I've met Mark.
[19:40] <Bojhan> mpt: ahh, yhea so basicly they got hired by Acquia to work on stuff, a pretty wierd construction to begin with - but basicly the upcomming 2 months they will make radical proposals we need to give feedback on and at the end Acquia engineers will code it up
[19:40] <mpt> That could be good in that they come at the task without being sullied by knowledge about why things are the way they are
[19:41] <mpt> It could be risky in that they just dump some changes and run, without permanent developers changing their thinking
[19:42] <Bojhan> mpt: defintly, I think there is great value in having an outside consultant, though I am constantly trying to battle the fundamental issues we are trying to solve they only see the symptons of
[19:43] <Bojhan> mpt: So, do you see your team doing some kind of usability testing in the near future? I would assume, that such a large communtiy has the funds to sponsor such a thing, as it could greatly impact the momentum and focus on the interface? Or is that all run trough the Gnome project?
[19:44] <mpt> Bojhan, a bit of both
[19:44] <mpt> We're planning our own testing of Ubuntu-specific stuff, and the Gnome Foundation is also looking at running tests
[19:46] <Bojhan> mpt: I must say running tests on opensource projects, is far more pleasing then any pay-able work. Since the people in the observation room and the participants have a very diffrent motivation
[19:47] <Bojhan> mpt: We setup http://drupalusability.org/ after a test we did 2 months ago
[19:48] <mpt> cool
[19:48] <Bojhan> mpt: If you ever need help setting up something similair, give me a ping - since we bassicly have all the stuff laying around for any other opensource project to use
[19:48] <mpt> Bojhan, thanks, I'll keep that in mind
[19:49] <Bojhan> mpt: So have you been able to involve usability experts into the game, or is it still hard to attract any?
[19:49] <mpt> Bojhan, but, er, what do you mean by "stuff" specifically? :-)
[19:50] <Bojhan> mpt: Well as in the setup of the site, so clean, without content.
[19:51] <Bojhan> mpt: and a lot of problems, we solved along the way in getting this out the community and intergrated part of the workflow
[19:51] <mpt> ok
[19:51] <Bojhan> mpt: basicly, we approached this kind of steve-krugy, saying
[19:52] <Bojhan> these are the bunch of small issues, and those are the larger problems
[19:54] <Bojhan> For 2# have you been able to pull from existing communities such as ixda?
[20:15] <dobey> hrmm
[20:16] <Nafallo> jesus christ compiz!
[20:17] <Nafallo> 666m RES now
[20:17] <dobey> i think you mean ANTI-jesus christ
[20:18] <Nafallo> ;-)
[20:18] <dobey> compiz is ok here
[20:18] <dobey> which is surprising, given the resolution i'm running it at
[20:18] <Nafallo> dobey: architecture? :-)
[20:18] <dobey> firefox on the other hand, is 192M
[20:18] <dobey> 32bit
[20:18] <dobey> but my screen is 2048x1152 :)
[20:18] <Nafallo> yeah. I've only heard this reported on 64-bit ;-)
[20:18] <dobey> ah
[20:18] <dobey> could be
[20:18] <dobey> in which case i'm glad i'm not using 64-bit
[20:18] <Nafallo> firefox is 400m RES and thunderbird 394m RES
[20:19] <dobey> yeah, gecko sucks
[20:19] <dobey> and webkit isn't really any better
[20:19] <Nafallo> I'd say compiz suck currently ;-)
[20:19] <dobey> well
[20:19] <dobey> firefox also sucks on 32bit
[20:19] <dobey> compiz is 29M RES for me
[20:20] <dobey> so maybe you should install 32-bit :)
[20:20] <Nafallo>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[20:20] <crdlb> compiz doesn't leak memory (at least not significantly)
[20:20] <Nafallo>  3413 nafallo   20   0 1999m 667m 3672 S    0 17.5  15:01.75 compiz.real
[20:20] <crdlb> it's the nviida  driver that causes that
[20:20] <dobey> nvidia on 64-bit only i guess?
[20:20] <johanbr> 58 meg res for me (on nvidia 64-bit)
[20:20] <Nafallo> crdlb: dude... the nvidia driver wouldn't work on my intel chipset :-)
[20:21] <Nafallo> making assumptions isn't helping ;-)
[20:21] <mpt> Bojhan, not yet.
[20:21] <dobey> Nafallo: i assume you need to install 32-bit instead :)
[20:21] <crdlb> Nafallo: ok, then mesa is doing it :>
[20:21] <Nafallo> dobey:
[20:21] <Nafallo> Mem:   3914164k total,  3870588k used,    43576k free,     4628k buffers
[20:21] <Nafallo> Swap:  4000144k total,   905416k used,  3094728k free,  1621460k cached
[20:22] <crdlb> but that's the first time I've heard of it on !nvidia
[20:22] <Nafallo> so no 32-bit either. I'd rather have the bug fixed personally :-)
[20:22] <Nafallo> hehe. still ballooning :-P
[20:23] <Nafallo> 2002m 669m 3668
[20:23] <Nafallo> I wonder if this could be UXA...
[20:23] <Nafallo> Ng: around? :-)
[20:24] <Nafallo> Ng: so anyway. seen any issues with compiz using UXA rendering? I use it with extras if you could help me re-produce :-)
[20:27] <Nafallo> oooh.
[20:28] <Nafallo> red herring :-/
[20:37] <Ng> Nafallo: what kinda issues?
[20:37] <Nafallo> Ng: 20   0 2035m 679m 3664 S    0 17.8  15:11.76 compiz.real
[20:38] <Nafallo> Ng: the memory leaking kind ;-)
[20:40] <dobey> hi glatzor
[20:46] <Ng> Nafallo: I definitely don't see that. Do you get it with default compiz settings?
[20:47] <Nafallo> Ng: running w/ extra.
[20:47] <Nafallo> Ng: hmm. you /are/ running x86_64, right?
[20:48] <Ng> nope
[20:49] <Nafallo> that's the culprit then :-P
[20:49] <Nafallo> Ng: oh well. thanks anyway. feel free to run from a usbstick or whatever... ;-)
[20:55] <glatzor> hello dobey
[21:00] <dobey> i really should rewrite the check mode for distutils-extra
[21:46] <kenvandine_wk> ok... so that is no fun
[21:47] <kenvandine_wk> somehow my disk got whacked...
[22:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson: hello, there?
[22:55] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[22:56] <robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb, still here?
[22:56] <seb128> robert_ancell: yes ;-) I tend to be around in the evening for one hour or two
[22:59] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[22:59] <huats> hey seb128
[23:00] <james_w> hi everyone
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> hi james_w
[23:00] <james_w> huats: get any interesting mail today?
[23:00] <huats> hey james_w !
[23:00] <huats> YES !
[23:01] <seb128> lut huats
[23:01] <james_w> :-)
[23:01] <seb128> everybody joining now ;-)
[23:01] <huats> james_w: how are you ? it has been so long ?
[23:01] <huats> james_w: already answered :)
[23:01] <james_w> \o/
[23:01] <james_w> huats: I'm good thanks, how are you?
[23:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson: did you get any update about this vino-server being respawned in loop bug? do you think it's jaunty milestone material or not?
[23:02] <huats> I am fine too :)
[23:02] <huats> james_w: thanks
[23:02] <james_w> glad to hear it
[23:02] <huats> I am in Paris to attend Solutions Linux
[23:02] <huats> a Linux event
[23:02] <james_w> oh, cool
[23:02] <james_w> oui, je connais
[23:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no update at the moment. the only trigger case i can think of seems quite unlikely, but the reporter of that bug seems to be sure he did not trigger it that way so I'm not sure if it should be milestoned or not really
[23:03] <huats> james_w: c'est vrai... un francophone comme toi :)
[23:03] <james_w> heh
[23:03] <chrisccoulson> my trigger case was to manually start vino-server, then change the gconf key so gnome-session spawns a second instance, which immediately exits and starts this cycle
[23:03] <chrisccoulson> but the reporter is saying he never manually started the first vino-server
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> so i'm not sure really
[23:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson: ok, I'm going through the milestoned bug, seems a medium priority, annoying case but not happening often apparently
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think you're right
[23:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson: maybe he got vino registered in the session or something ... but that's weird since we don't have session storing right now
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's a bit strange
[23:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson: otherwise are you looking for bugs to investigate or you are busy enough with other things right now?
[23:05] <chrisccoulson> i can investigate some other bugs, but perhaps not this evening
[23:05] <seb128> ok
[23:06] <chrisccoulson> just looking at the vino source - it still uses GnomeClient, so it should be possible to make the respawning work correctly
[23:06] <chrisccoulson> unliek with nautilus ;)
[23:06] <seb128> chrisccoulson: I just crossed bug #233913 if you are interested by having a look this week
[23:07] <chrisccoulson> i can take a look at that hopefully tomorrow
[23:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson: oh and sorry for not really replying to those comments about the media icon in the new pulse capplet the other day
[23:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson: I had to run to catch a plane
[23:07] <seb128> thanks
[23:07] <chrisccoulson> that's ok
[23:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson: I think the issue is a minor one since the capplet is not installed by default anyway
[23:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it is quite a minor issue
[23:08] <seb128> changing the theme seems to be the easiest way
[23:09] <seb128> but if that's not done for jaunty that no big deal
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure why i couldn't get it to display the application icon though. maybe that's a limitation with pulseaudio
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> changing the theme sounds good
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> it's only a handful of icons
[23:10] <seb128> right
[23:27] <Ampelbein> seb128: could you give an example of a "non standard case" package update? so i can see what you mean and perhaps ask some questions.
[23:28] <seb128> Ampelbein: I've no specific example but you mostly did update
[23:28] <seb128> Ampelbein: that was to write something there ;-)
[23:28] <Ampelbein> ah, ok. ;-)
[23:29] <Ampelbein> btw, thanks for the testimonial
[23:29] <seb128> Ampelbein: did you do library updates and checked if the shlibs need to be updated for example? did you do python packaging and check it's conform to the python policy?
[23:29] <seb128> Ampelbein: did you do new packages or binary splits?
[23:29] <Ampelbein> seb128: ok, thats something i will have a look for.
[23:30] <Ampelbein> i tried a split of binary and -dev package. bug #326899
[23:31] <Ampelbein> i don't mind if it doesn't get accepted, was a good excercise to learn more about how packaging work
[23:32] <seb128> good ;-)
[23:32] <seb128> as said that was rather to write something there, most of the desktop updates are usually easy and I was not sure if you did non standard update changes
[23:32] <seb128> ie do you now how to check that the symbols of a library changed?
[23:33] <Ampelbein> but i think i need some guidance for library updates. and i'm sure there are people here to help.
[23:33] <Ampelbein> no
[23:33] <seb128> ok
[23:33] <seb128> next time we have a lib to update I will think to you ;-)
[23:35] <Ampelbein> cool.
[23:36] <Ampelbein> i think i'll check the bugs tagged "packaging" and see if i can do some more ;-)
[23:38] <seb128> good
[23:43] <huats> seb128: I'll take care of the new anjuta
[23:43] <seb128> huats: thanks
[23:46] <dobey> seb128: can you sync the new tango-icon-theme from debian?
[23:47] <seb128> dobey: what is your launchpad-id?
[23:47] <dobey> seb128: dobey
[23:48] <seb128> dobey: synced
[23:50] <dobey> thanks