=== hessml|away is now known as hessml|away|away === hessml|away|away is now known as hessml|away [01:41] what is the purpose of LTSP chroot? === hessml|away is now known as hessml|away|away [01:42] dustin: Huh? [01:43] setting up ubuntu server 8.10 and there is an option to enable LTSP chroot and I was wondering if I need it [01:46] well if nobedy here uses it I will assume that it is not necesary [01:46] I'm just having a little look-see. Gimmie a mo. [01:48] dustin: LTSP is the Linux Thinclient Server Project [01:48] dustin: unless you are setting up a thinclient server, you don't need LTSP [01:48] dustin: I'm not familiar with it, but it appears to relate to the LSTP client builder. I'm *guessing* that it is to allow you to chroot to the client image, so you can update it and modify it without affecting the server itself, but I may be wrong. [01:48] dustin: As twb says, if you're not using LTSP, then no. [01:49] ok that makes sence [01:50] is there a command line method to fix my grub it didnt burn right onto the disk [01:50] dustin: there is. [01:50] dustin: are you sure grub is at fault? What are the symptoms? [01:51] during install the disk flagged an error loading grub [01:51] as in installing [01:52] but if I can run a live cd and fix it after installing I think that I can work it out [01:52] Hmm, are you still in the installer? [01:52] yes [01:52] Switch to vt4. [01:53] Can you see anything about grub there? [01:53] ah point!! [01:53] brb [01:55] beautifull grub didnt get installed on the disk my burner is doing some of the wierdest stuff [01:55] at least this coppy had the base system on it :) [01:55] Perhaps you're trying to install grub on the wrong device? [01:56] it didnt offer an option but I would think that its target is md0 which is my root [01:58] The target should be the disk itself, not a partition or md device [01:58] wow I have had so many difficulties with this install........................................but it will be well worth the effort [01:59] And as a trick for new players, if you need to be able to boot from either drive if the array fails you need to manually copy the boot-block across too. [01:59] Unless there is a better way that I don't know of :) [02:01] laemmy guess.........I shoulda partitioned for two virtual md devices and dedicated one as a /boot partition [02:01] that way I would have my /boot on two drives in its own little place [02:02] or am I miss reading you? [02:03] dustin: are you using RAID5 or RAID1? [02:03] raid1 [02:03] dustin: then it ought to work... [02:03] this is a very small server [02:08] wow I just found out that apt-get isnt available in install bash [02:19] ok I have a command line how do I install and configure grub from there [02:19] I also have apt-get [02:22] dustin: chroot into the root filesystem (probably /target). [02:22] Oops, sorry. [02:22] Don't do that. [02:22] Instead, grub-install --root-directory=/target /dev/sda, where sda is the appropriate disk. [02:22] lol [02:22] You may need to use --recheck. [02:22] you guys have any suggestions for creating minimal chroot environments for users? [02:22] debootstrap seems a bit overkill [02:23] mattt: define `minimal'. [02:23] twb: ls, cat, find, tar, vi,e tc. [02:23] mattt: debootstrap creates a chroot that contains the minimum necessary to be a policy-compliant Debian system. [02:24] mattt: debootstrap --variant=buildd probably gets you what you want, more or less. [02:24] mattt: though I think it defaults to standard, not minimal [02:24] infinity: thanks. [02:24] ok, thanks guys [02:24] infinity: is that also what pbuilder uses? [02:24] otherwise, i've seen jailer, which seems another option [02:25] twb: Probably. I don't use pbuilder. [02:25] mattt: you should be aware that chroot(2) offers *zero* protection to your host system against the root user within the chroot. [02:25] twb: (As the buildd maintainer, I use sbuild and chroots identical to the buildds...) [02:25] infinity: fair enough [02:25] twb: bash grub-install: not found [02:26] dustin: yeah, OK, so you haven't got grub. You do need to chroot into target [02:26] mattt: if you want a secure chroot-like system, I suggest you look at xen and/or openvz. For more complete virtualization, there is kvm. [02:27] twb: heh, well ... this is actually going to be used on a domU :P [02:27] mattt: OK, no worries [02:27] twb: well, there are still issues ... because the domU runs stuff that i don't want the chroot to see [02:27] twb: this may sound stupid but what is the command for the chroot [02:28] dustin: chroot /target, I think [02:28] thats what I thought but wanted to confirm b4 messing up [02:30] twb: bash: chroot: cannot change root directory to /target: no such file or directory [02:31] dustin: OK, you need to work out where it's mounted [02:31] dustin: look at /proc/mounts [02:31] twb does this install have you agravated yet ;) [02:31] dustin: nope. [02:32] well this might-- I am root and do not have permission to /proc/mounts [02:33] should I cat /proc/mounts [02:33] That's what I said. [02:33] ok then I misread u [02:34] I see things that are wrong??????????? [02:35] Insufficient data. [02:35] md0 is showing as ext2 and it is formatted to ext3 [02:35] That is OK. [02:36] ok as long as u agree with it I will over look that part does it matter that it is reporting errors [02:36] dustin: what errors? [02:36] dustin: also, please use punctuation and capitalization appropriately. [02:38] line reads /dev/md0 / ext2 rw, errors=continue 0 0 (maybe I am freaking out and missreading) [02:39] dustin: that says "if you see an error, continue". [02:39] dustin: it doesn't mean there ARE errors. [02:39] I have been staring at this screen for 12 hours now so it is entirely possible that I am just freaking out [02:40] I am now confused as to what environment you are in. [02:40] I thought you were in the installer still. [02:41] after installer failed to load grub I started in rescue mode so that I could access a command line [02:41] dustin: you mean that you ran the install CD in rescue mode? [02:41] as far as I can tell I am in a "safe mode" command line [02:42] Please just answer the question. [02:42] I am in rescue mode "NOW" [02:43] would you like me to start from the beginning and reload from the start because I have nothing to loose by doing so [02:44] twb: I am sorry for anny confusion I may have caused jumping around [02:45] I am having a bit of a day [02:45] dustin: OK, please confirm that /usr/sbin/grub-install doesn't exist at the moment. [02:46] confirmed [02:46] dustin: OK, is /usr/sbin mentioned in "echo $PATH"? [02:48] yes [02:48] That's weird [02:48] 12:29 twb: bash grub-install: not found [02:49] twb: He said it wasn't installed. [02:49] twb: (He confirmed its nonexistence...) [02:49] infinity: if it's not installed, then why is it in his path? [02:49] That's a pretty fundamental contradiction [02:50] 19:45 < twb> dustin: OK, please confirm that /usr/sbin/grub-install doesn't exist at the moment. [02:50] 19:46 < dustin> confirmed [02:50] He comfirmed that it doesn't exist. [02:50] Oh sorry, brain fart [02:51] dustin: can you check if lilo exists in any of the directories in your $PATH? [02:51] dustin: don't run it, I just want to know if it's there [02:51] its ok I have had to tripple confirm these errors to myself becouse I dont believe it [02:51] dustin: actually, you can just do "dpkg -l \*lilo*" and see if it has "ii" on the left [02:53] output of $PATH= /sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin [02:56] "| status=not/inst/Cfg-files" ect [02:57] last was dpkg output [02:57] dustin: yes, there should be a line at the bottom of dpkg's output saying either "ii" if it's installed or something like "pn" if it isn't. [02:58] is "un" the one u want? [02:58] OK, interesting. [02:58] dustin: that means you have somehow managed to install this system without ANY bootloader. [02:58] if I seem choppy or inattentive its becouse I run both my server and my desktop on the same monitor [02:59] yes!! [02:59] that is correct [02:59] dustin: well, that wasn't established before. [02:59] dustin: it might have been installed, but not installed into the MBR properly. [02:59] sorry I am a bit off today [02:59] No problem. [03:00] it might be the lortabs after my knee surgery [03:00] dustin: what you need to do now is get grub installed. That means getting either the install CD or the network working, then doing an "apt-get install grub". [03:00] I will apt-get it [03:00] brb [03:02] "grub has no installation candidate"..........*moans* [03:02] dustin: edit /etc/apt/sources.list. [03:02] dustin: there should be a commented-out reference to the CD. [03:16] twb: Perhaps he didn't like your bed-side manner? [03:16] owh: hmm? [03:17] twb: The person you've patiently been helping for the past hour and a half. [03:18] Hi, how do I unmount a harddrive? [03:19] matthew-21: In what context? [03:21] matthew-21: As-in, what are you trying to do. The unmount command is umount, but if you're asking, I'm guessing that's not what you're looking for. [03:28] my isp is about to get an earfull [03:28] dustin: do you think that will help? [03:28] twb: u still on? [03:29] I cant exit my editor....................................I have never used it b4 [03:29] no I was typing into irc and found out that I was disconnected [03:29] Describe the editor. [03:30] how do I save and exit vim? [03:30] I wish to know if it is nano or vi. [03:30] its the newer version of vi [03:30] dustin :x [03:30] Type ESC :q RET [03:32] dustin save and exit=:x . exit without save=:q! [03:33] I still cant install grub even with cd enabled [03:34] I think it is missing from the disk [03:34] dustin: After uncommenting the source, did you run apt-get update? [03:34] I felt like I missed something [03:37] Sorry, yes, you will need to run apt-get update. [03:38] You may also need to run apt-cdrom, IIRC it is particularly stupid about that. [03:38] when I ran that update I was informed about apt-cdrom [03:39] grub is unpacking huray!!!!! [03:41] ok now to configure grub [03:41] how do I check it to verify its current settings [03:42] twb: can you walk me through grub settup in command line [03:43] dustin: May I suggest that you do some reading on the subject? [03:44] dustin: you should be able to just run "grub-install /dev/sda", where sda is the appropriate disk [03:44] ok [03:44] Actually, that might not work. Try it and see. [03:45] twb: With an array? [03:46] it seems to have liked that command [03:46] I am going to reboot and see how it goes [03:50] well thats a N/G but I am going to rub my eyes and take ten after that I will read the grub man file and try again [03:51] thank all of you for your help and tollerance [03:55] How do I give users user quotas for home dir? [03:57] matthew-21: you need to install the quota package, then mount /home with -o usrquota, then generate an initiate quota database. [03:59] twb: You mean initial right? [04:01] Okay, I've installed the quota package, now how do I give them a certain quota to use? lol [04:02] I mean so they can only upload a certain amount of stuff. [04:03] owh: yes [04:03] matthew-21: oh yes, you also need to allocate each user a quota -- otherwise it won't be enforced [04:03] What are the commands to do this? [04:04] quota or edquota, IIRC [04:04] dpkg -L quota | grep bin/ will tell you [04:05] matthew-21: You could just click on the first link of this google search "linux home dir quotas" and read the whole thing from start to end. [04:07] would this quota system work if I was using an external harddrive? like giving them a quota on the harddrive. [04:07] matthew-21: Well, it likely depends on how you've mounted that drive. [04:09] matthew-21: If the external hard drive changes, you're possibly going to run into issues identifying which drive it is. If the drive is just in an external case, but always there, it makes no difference. [04:10] I typed this. "mount -t vfat /dev/sdb1 /var/www/tb/" [04:10] The quota system doesn't care WHERE the drive is, only that it is mounted with -o usrquota [04:10] Quotas may not work with vfat. [04:10] I suspect that it doesn't support vfat. [04:10] and then link it to a folder in the users home dir. [04:10] Do not use FAT, as it is a bloody awful filesystem [04:11] matthew-21: quotas do not span disks. [04:11] matthew-21: if you're trying to put quotas on, say, ~user/public_html, and public_html is a symlink, then you need to set up quotas for the place that public_html points to. [04:11] matthew-21: Let me suggest that you take a step back and actually describe what you're trying to do and how it's currently setup, because from what I'm reading here, there are some serious problems. [04:15] I have an external harddrive, that I am leaving plugged in to the server all the time. I want to set up quotas on it, and so far iv mounted it using the command "mount -t vfat /dev/sdb1 /var/www/tb" I'm just wondering how to prevent users from taking up the entire harddrive laughs. [04:15] matthew-21: That does not appear to be the whole story because you're mounting it related to the web-root but sym-linking to a user. [04:16] I haven't done that yet, I was checking here before I did anything else. [04:17] matthew-21: So, how are the user accounts related to the web-root? [04:17] matthew-21: Is the external drive ever used anywhere else on another machine? [04:18] it was before, but I'm trying to make it into a server drive. [04:19] matthew-21: What about the user home directories and their relationship to the /var/www/tb tree? [04:19] I want the files that users upload to be accessible on the internet, that's why I add in web-root. [04:20] matthew-21: I'm guessing there are multiple users? [04:20] yes [04:20] matthew-21: Are all their files going to be uploaded into the same directory? [04:21] no [04:22] matthew-21: So, how does that answer relate to linking their home directories with a sym-link to /var/www/tb ? [04:22] I would create seperate folders as I gave users space. [04:23] matthew-21: So, how would the structure look? [04:23] like if there was a user named bob, the tree would be /var/www/tb/bob [04:24] matthew-21: In addition to that structure, /var/www/tb/{username}, do the users also have /home/{username} [04:25] ah, how would I get quotas for each folder though? [04:25] matthew-21: It's per drive, per user/group [04:26] matthew-21: Read this: http://www.linuxhomenetworking.com/wiki/index.php/Quick_HOWTO_:_Ch28_:_Managing_Disk_Usage_with_Quotas [04:30] is there a way to do this without partitioning? [04:31] matthew-21: Well, the external drive is a partition all by itself. [04:32] ah, I see. do I need to edit the /etc/fstab file? [04:32] Yup [04:32] or can I just say external harddrive is partition. [04:33] matthew-21: fstab is a mechanism to automatically mount a drive. I suppose you could manually mount it each time you reboot, but after a power-failure/reboot, the mount would not be there. [04:34] Normally you should refer to external drives' filesystems by UUID. [04:35] For FAT, I believe this is an eight-byte string XXXX-XXXX. [04:36] I gotta say that using FAT for a server mounted drive that is intended to support quotas and be served as a web-volume make little sense to me. [04:37] I would format the drive, but I have stuff backed up onto it and cannot put the files anywhere else. [04:38] matthew-21: if you aren't using RAID, then you have a SPOF already [04:38] ? what do you mean. [04:38] You ought to go buy a second disk, and RAID1 them. During that transition you could also convert the filesystem. [04:39] SPOF == Single Point Of Failure [04:39] matthew-21: I mean that if that hard drive dies (the Single Point of Failure) then you have lost that data forever [04:39] ah [04:41] okay, I would like to ask a different question if that's okay with you, how would I authorize my website so people would need a username and password to log in to the actual website? [04:41] I think that it is possible. [04:42] But I am not sure. [04:43] thank you for your help though, I really appreciate it. [04:43] matthew-21: that depends on a large range of factors. [04:43] I don't want anything really secure, just a way to secure apache and my site a bit. [04:44] Those phrases are rather contradictory. [04:45] matthew-21 http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/10/06/limiting-access-to-websitesdirectories-with-htaccess/ [04:45] matthew-21: The moment your server is connected to the 'net, it's waiting to be compromised. A "little bit" of security is not a sensical statement. [04:47] You could, for example, only allow access to the website when connecting over an encrypted VPN (which you would set up). [04:47] You need to ask questions like "what is the threat model?" [04:49] twb: I'm not sure that what you're saying is meaningful in the context. I agree, but I don't think it helps. I've been struggling to communicate these same concepts in other channels, "How do you help those without any meaningful background." [04:50] I'm trying to find out which port LTSP listens on cause I thought tftpd-hpa has to be running but I can't find an instance of that process. Anyone have some info? [04:50] twb: It's the phenomenon of: "This cannot be that hard, look, I can run the installer and it all just works." [04:51] twb: Unfortunately computing isn't quite yet as developed as say driving a car. [04:52] centaur5: Isn't it run by an inetd process - in which case, it's likely in /etc/services [04:54] owh: Interesting, tftp is port 69 but netstat doesn't show anything waiting on that port. How does that work? [04:55] owh: haha, "explanations are hard so we resorted to car analogies" [04:55] centaur5: Hmm, does it work? As in, if you telnet to port 69, do you get a response? [04:55] centaur5: inetd should be listening to that port. [04:56] twb: car analogies can be used for almost anything :) [04:56] twb: If you have a better analogy, I'm all for it. [04:56] "security analysis isn't as easy as falling over" [04:57] "Just because you can catch a ball doesn't mean you understand differential calculus" [04:57] twb: Right, that's all fine, but how do you explain that to someone who comes to you with a differential calculus question without the knowledge to understand the answer? [04:58] owh: well the comments above are first meant to help the guy understand that he really doesn't know differential calculus [04:59] One they understand that they don't understand, you can move onto phase #2: gettin' some schoolin' [04:59] I lecture at a university. I find analogies to be highly effective at times. [04:59] And did you see evidence of this "moving to phase #2"? [05:01] PhotoJim: lecturing to filthy, delinquent undergrads, or lecturing to humans? [05:02] When I spend time in IRC, I find I'm trying for a balance between telling the person asking the question what the answer is and explaining where to find the answer. It's easy just to give the answer, but over time it takes more time. [05:02] Nod. [05:03] twb: All human, few filthy, very few delinquent. [05:03] I used to run a helpdesk and I spent many months arguing that teaching users was cheaper than helping them. Over time management began to see a drop-off in the number of calls because users began to get a clue. Until this happened though, the call stats were abysmal. [05:04] owh: short term pain for long term gain, as they say. [05:04] PhotoJim: lucky bastard. [05:04] twb: some students are a challenge of my patience, and some are a true pleasure. but that is true of most groups of humans. [05:05] twb: I respect that you are trying to show that a VPN is one approach, all I was doing was questioning if the person whom you were giving the advice to understood even the words, let alone the concepts. [05:05] PhotoJim: Yup. [05:06] A few months ago I started composing an email to ubuntu-devel-discuss about this phenomenon. As Ubuntu becomes more popular, we run the risk of being drowned in requests for help. [05:07] the Internet is a good example of that sort of effect. [05:07] That is, it might get to the point where we couldn't help despite our best efforts because there was too much need to get help. [05:07] PhotoJim: Yeah, and it's getting worse. [05:07] yes, that's true, although in defense of it, we wouldn't have multi-megabit cheap broadband if hardly anyone were on the Net. [05:07] PhotoJim: More an more people yammering for help, less and less actual help available. [05:08] yes, true. [05:08] PhotoJim: And more and more dis-information. [05:08] The internet is beginning to be a race to the bottom. [05:08] PhotoJim: here undergrads are mostly at university to drink and have promiscuous sex, AFAICT :-/ [05:08] They should all be locked up. [05:08] twb: I teach fourth-year business students. the horny clueless ones have dropped out by then. :) [05:09] I saw a forum recently where the answer voted by the forum members as being the most helpful was in-fact incorrect and the answer that was actually correct was voted down as being not relevant. [05:09] i have ubuntu serve and i am a newby. i have some question and hope somebody can help? [05:09] owh; heh. that's discouraging. [05:09] * owh was gob-smacked. [05:10] Rafael: Sure, ask away. [05:10] owh: well, forums are for people who are too stupid to use usenet. [05:10] (Assuming you mean web forums.) [05:10] twb: Hmm, I'm a list-moderator on a large list and we continually get requests to "upgrade" to a web-forum. [05:11] Smack them with gmane.org [05:11] twb: "No, don't you understand, that's not the same." "We want a web-forum with whim's and upload and..." [05:12] any bash gurus here? :) [05:12] 1) i am trying to connect server to 3 window computer..i am assuming i hve to use samba..my first question is the following...can a network storage adapter be conected to a router and make backups of the data of server as windows documents? [05:12] mattt: That just depends on the level of guru required - specifically, what the actual question is :) [05:13] owh: any idea why this doesn't work? bins="cp,ls"; for x in /bin/{$bins}; do echo $x; done [05:14] mattt: Separate it with a space. [05:14] mattt: The delimiter isn't a comma. [05:14] 2) any advise of any network storage enclosure that will connect to the server without any problem, and also if i would like to connect one at home how can i do this? [05:14] owh: what i'm looking for it to do is echo /bin/cp and /bin/ls, not /bin{cp,ls} [05:14] err /bin/{cp,ls} [05:15] mattt: Yes, I understand that, bins="cp,ls" is delimited with a comma. [05:15] owh: space doesn't work ... and this does work "for x in /bin/{cp,ls}; do echo $x; done" [05:16] Rafael: few network enclosures, especially at the low end, support Linux networking. A cheaper way to accomplish that goal is to use a USB2 enclosure that you can use with native Linux filesystems. [05:16] mattt: bins="a b" ; for a in $bins ; do echo $a ; done [05:16] Rafael: there are higher-end drive enclosures that are called Network Attached Storage that will do Linux filesystems and networking natively, but they cost a lot more than ones that do Windows networking. [05:16] owh: but if i have a common prefix (/bin in this case), /bin/{cp,ls} is a bit tidier [05:17] USB2 is pretty slow, though. [05:17] owh: but i see what you're getting at [05:17] eSATA sounds sexy, but I haven't tried it myself [05:17] twb: the SMB drive enclosure I have is slower than USB2. [05:18] PhotoJim: haha [05:18] mattt: echo /bin/{cp,ls} [05:18] eSATA is great, if you can get compatible stuff. the only time I've tried it, the drive I got, combined with the enclosure and SATA card, wouldn't talk. [05:18] twb: could be the speed Linux does SMBFS, perhaps. but the enclosure is painfully slow. [05:19] ITYM CIFS [05:19] PhotoJim: sorry for my ignorance..the server (linux) is going to safe for example word documets, then if i am using samba, shouldnt it be windows compatible so it can safe in word format. ie..server goes down i can have windows computer look into enclosure and still read documents? [05:19] twb: I use rsync, USB2 is plenty fast :) [05:19] [05:19] USB2 isn't great but it's not awful either. USB1.1 is awful. :) [05:19] owh: I'm comparing the speed of USB2 to the speed of e.g. the SATA bus. [05:20] twb: Sure, depends on usage requirements though. [05:20] Nod. [05:21] owh: bins=`echo /bin/{cp,ls}`; for x in $bins; do echo $x; done [05:21] owh: is that what you mean? cuz that does ... seem to work. :) [05:21] the nice thing about USB2 (assuming one doesn't have a working Linux NAS or eSATA device) is that you can backup your whole disk into one device, and then remove it for safekeeping. [05:21] mattt: I was just showing you what different methods of expansion are available. Glad to see that you have what you need. [05:22] PhotoJim: another guy I know has a udev rule to do that automatically when it detects the drive (by UUID). [05:22] twb: oh, that's slick. [05:22] owh: cheers [05:22] PhotoJim: so he just plugs it in when he gets home, esentially [05:23] twb: Did he document this anywhere - I mean, it's all nice and well fixing stuff, but if it ain't written down, it didn't happen. [05:23] I recently got a pair of terabyte drives and put them in RAID1. I think I'm going to get another pair, one for a spare RAID1 drive (online) and another in an enclosure for a removable backup drive. [05:23] owh: yeah, probably on a blog [05:23] owh: I can't be bothered finding the reference, sorry. [05:23] * owh is reminded to make a post about MYOB running off a server drive, even if MYOB tells me that it doesn't work :) [05:23] twb: That's cool :) [05:23] It was probably Russell Coker, if you wanna google [05:28] do not want to overwellm chat, but this is what i want to do: i am a doctor and build ubuntu server to store data (word and pdf documents). i want to make backups of this into and external drive (network attach enclosure), in a way that if server fails backups can be read from enclosure, at the same time would like to do same at home so baiscally have 2 backups...where can i read or learn about this? [05:29] also if i want to connect network attach storage from home to office, any suggestion on good router for office that will make this coenction easily and secure [05:31] Is tftp (port 69) the only thing that LTSP requires or are there more ports that need to be open? [05:31] Rafael: You are setting up a whole lot of interdependent processes there. These are the ones I can see off the top of my head. [05:31] 1. Ubuntu Server, [05:31] 2. Samba server to serve word and pdf documents to users [05:31] 3. Network storage mount [05:31] 4. Server backups to same [05:31] 5. Network storage fail-over [05:31] 6. Remote access to LAN [05:31] 7. Remote access to remote storage [05:31] Crap [05:32] Sorry 'bout that. Seems is a separate post. [05:32] hello to all. just poppin in to ask if anyone knows a very simple way of setting up a network where a client computer boots up and authenticates to a server which will then load up the users home folder and desktop settings? [05:32] Rafael no, that cannot be done easily. you need a network admin for rent or just use one usb drive and take it with you to work and home. [05:32] loginhelp: The edubuntu server will do that out of the box. [05:33] owh: does edubuntu server have lamp setup as well? right now i'm trying to config ubuntu server 8.04 [05:33] Rafael: This stuff is not complicated to learn, but it will test your patience. My question would be: "Is it cheaper to do this yourself, or is it cheaper to pay someone to do this?" [05:34] loginhelp: Well it's the same project. I suspect it also has a LAMP task. Of course you can also install LTSP into ubuntu-server. [05:35] Rafael: To give you a car analogy: "Do you maintain your own car, or do you pay a mechanic?" [05:35] ha [05:36] Someone was paying attention [05:36] owh: i like computers and to learn, that is a hobby for me even thought you might be rigth since linux is completely new for me....i buld the ubuntu server and hve install samba already and tsting with no problem...i am also plaing with webmin and ebox, but would like to have some type of security so that is why i am trying to do the backups [05:37] Rafael if you want security then uninstall webmin, that is very insecure. [05:37] Rafael: backups are "business continuity" or "disaster recovery". The term "security" usually means security against other people. [05:37] Yes, webmin is absolutely to be avoided. [05:37] owh: i do mantein all my windows computer but i am learning linux..so so far is fun, as long as i learn and progress, but you are rigth that if it becomes problematic then it can be a headache [05:38] Rafael: Well, as you've no doubt found out at this point, the questions you've already solved are not documented in one single place. The more you add, the bigger the resources you need to understand and build. [05:38] twb: is webmin not good? [05:38] twb: sorry, when i mean security i mean..server crashes and data is safe ..sorry for gramar [05:38] loginhelp no, webmin is not good. it is full of vulnerabilities. [05:39] Rafael: As twb points out, "business continuity" is what you're really asking about and if we gave you "partial" information, there would potentially be liability issues. Don't get me wrong, and I suspect the same is true for twb, we are happy to help, but be mindful of the landscape you're stepping onto. [05:40] any other alternatives to managing a server with gui on a client? [05:40] loginhelp: landscape and/or ssh [05:40] well i know tht webmin is not on the repository and ebox is, but i have configure the box on raid 1 and raid 5 and after erasing one of the 3 hard drives i can start the rebuld process in less than 1 minute..i agree from reading that is vulnerable to other things [05:41] Rafael: There is a reason it's not in the repository, the ubuntu-server team made that choice, specifically. We've discussed it several times even. [05:41] It's probably easier for #ubuntu-server to help with specific problems such as "how do I make do " compared to broad things like "how can I make my server secure and fast" or "how can I share files on the internet?" [05:41] Fair summary. [05:42] For those kinds of broad questions, you probably want to talk to either a local professional, or to a local linux user group. [05:42] thanks guys for your help [05:42] Rafael: To note, there are amateurs and professionals in this channel, so don't be afraid of asking. [05:43] Regarding webmin, I have personally audited both parts of its core, and some modules. The code is absolute crap, and it WILL be full of horribleness. [05:43] May I observe that this is another example of the same phenomenon. The questions are legitimate, the need is real, but as a community we may not have the tools to help such a need. That worries me. [05:44] do not worry, but there are diferent type of doctors, some that does not know how o turn on a computer and some that we like and go deep into learning computer issues..when we divert the question to liabilites we loose the purpose of having amateurs and professional..that is fine and one moer etime thanks for the help [05:45] owh i disagree. people screw-up their cars all the time because they think they can fix it. (another car analogy.) [05:45] In my professional opinion as a sysadmin, *none* of the web-based administrative tools I have seen are of even remotely good quality. Admittedly, I have not closely looked at ebox. [05:45] Rafael: No, I think you mis-understand. [05:45] or they can learn mechanics and fix cars [05:46] For the simplest things such as "I want to add another user", I would probably try to deploy gnome-system-tools over VNC, only accesible from the local (i.e. trusted) network. I have not actually trialled this yet. [05:46] so i am guessing there is no way i'm going to find a step A to step Z on how to get a school network going in 3 hours? [05:46] Rafael: I was trying to comment on the size of the question you were asking. It's not that I don't believe you can do it, or that we cannot help you achieve it, it's that there are *many* issues that will come up while you're doing it. Some of those relate directly to the running of your company. [05:47] loginhelp no, it's deep topic. [05:47] loginhelp: Boot from the edubuntu live cd. [05:47]