[02:18] <j1mc> i met a guy from amazon at a doc conference today.  they use docbook for their webservices docs. :)
[02:18] <j1mc> also, the guy who wrote "opensuse unleashed" uses kubuntu.
[02:24] <j1mc> D.I.T.A. seems to be the 'new black' in corporate doc production, though. It's open source, though, and opensuse packages it.  It wouldn't hurt to at least have it packaged for Ubuntu.
[02:26] <jjesse> nice
[02:27] <jjesse> never heard of dita, website for more info/
[02:27] <jjesse> my shift doesn't work
[02:27] <jjesse> that's wierd and sucks
[02:27] <philip_> good thing you have two of them
[02:27] <jjesse> neither one works, tab, shift caps lock ctrl
[02:27] <jjesse> hrmm
[02:28] <jjesse> in my windows vm it works but not in jaunty
[02:28] <jjesse> that is wierd
[02:29] <j1mc> jjesse: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-dita1/
[02:30] <jjesse> j1mc: i can't use that program, i'm a christian and don't believe in evolution ;p
[02:31] <philip_> you guys are considering a new structure for ubuntu docs?
[02:31] <j1mc> philip_: no, not really.  i'm just mentioning this.
[02:31] <j1mc> jjesse: i didn't link to any evolution stuff, did i?
[02:31] <jjesse> j1mc: darwin ;0
[02:31] <j1mc> haha
[02:32] <jjesse> glad you thought that was funny
[02:32] <j1mc> jjesse: i heard of some christian groups even aliasing linux commands like, "kill all" and stuff like that. :)
[02:32] <j1mc> it was hear-say, though...
[02:32] <j1mc> don't know the details and i'm not even sure if it is true.
[02:34] <j1mc> jjesse: it doesn't really seem all that different from docbook in terms of how it works.  instead of entities, you have 'conrefs' . . . i'm just learning about it.  the content reuse stuff i learned about today was pretty neat, though.
[02:34] <jjesse> j1mc: it looks interesting, bookmarked to read more
[02:34] <j1mc> coolness.
[02:35] <j1mc> like i said above, i may see about at least getting it packaged for ubuntu.  it's in opensuse, but not fedora.  opensuse actually packages docbook 3, 4 and 5 as separate packages.
[04:49] <cody-somerville> Hiya
[06:10] <pace_t_zulu_> i'd like to document how to compile webkitgtk ... i am at http://help.ubuntu.com/community
[06:11] <pace_t_zulu_> can someone give me pointers?
[06:12] <pace_t_zulu> hey
[06:12] <pace_t_zulu> anyone here?
[06:16] <cody-somerville> I'm here
[06:21] <pace_t_zulu> sup man
[06:21] <pace_t_zulu> i am compiling webkitgtk on jaunty beta 1
[06:21] <pace_t_zulu> there is no documentation online
[06:21] <pace_t_zulu> i'd like to add to the community wiki
[06:22] <pace_t_zulu> or just create a package for it
[06:22] <pace_t_zulu> could you give me some pointers?
[06:29] <pace_t_zulu> guess not... i'll go at it on my own
[13:29] <cody-somerville> mdke, ping
[13:29] <mdke> cody-somerville: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[13:29] <cody-somerville> mdke, I want to move documentation branches into their own project and use a project group
[16:45] <schwuk> Hey all. Just wanted to let you know about a new icon for Checkbox that's included in the 0.7.1 bugfix release we've asked to be included in Jaunty. bug 352389
[16:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 352389 in checkbox "Please update Checkbox to latest stable 0.7.1 in Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352389
[16:45] <schwuk> Don't think it should affect you too much.
[17:46] <mdke> schwuk: agreed, don't even know what checkbox is
[17:47] <mdke> cody-somerville: well, as per my email really, I'm extremely disappointed that you've gone ahead and forced this through without discussion
[17:50] <cody-somerville> I was just trying to get the translation stuff working
[17:50] <cody-somerville> our docs package isn't in main
[17:50] <cody-somerville> so it doesn't get automatically imported into Rosetta
[17:51] <mdke> no, I'm afraid that doesn't wash - it wasn't necessary for you to do that to get translations working
[17:51] <mdke> translation templates already existed under the Ubuntu project, all that was necessary was to update them
[17:51] <cody-somerville> Thats not quite true
[17:51] <schwuk> mdke: System > Administration > System Testing == Checkbox
[17:51] <cody-somerville> There are templates that are not used anymore and new ones that aren't there
[17:52] <mdke> cody-somerville: and why did creating a new project help you to change that in a way that you couldn't do anyway?
[17:53] <mdke> schwuk: ok, will check it out. Dont' think it's documented, anyway
[17:53] <cody-somerville> Because projects can import new templates and have other options available that packages don't
[17:54] <cody-somerville> mdke, I'd encourage you to take a look at project groups
[17:54] <cody-somerville> mdke, it provides you with everything you're looking for and everthing I'm looking for
[17:55] <cody-somerville> Anyhow, I have to run to the bank. I'll be back shortly and would be happy to continue a productive dialogue on how we can best take advantage of launchpad.
[17:55] <mdke> cody-somerville: actually, I have some objections to using a project group too, but at the moment I'm just expressing my disappointment that you went ahead and did this without discussing it
[17:57] <cody-somerville> I don't think its that big of a deal. Infact, I think its a bigger deal that we've decided to use launchpad oppositely to how the rest of the Ubuntu and launchpad community do.
[17:59] <schwuk> mdke: thanks
[17:59]  * cody-somerville is off to the bank, bbl
[17:59] <j1mc> cody-somerville: the xubuntu docs look great with the exception of the draft watermark being in place on the doc page.
[17:59] <cody-somerville> j1mc, indeed
[18:00] <cody-somerville> j1mc, Is knome still planning on giving it a css/image refresh?
[18:00] <philip_> is there a designated person who responds to new people on the doc list? especially those with patches.
[18:01] <mdke> cody-somerville: the difference is that the current use is a result of discussion, whereas your actions were directly contrary to previous discussions, and complete disregard for the team. If you can't see that, then we'll just have to leave it there
[18:02] <mdke> philip_: not really. your patch will be seen to, but it's a bit slow at the moment because our docs have been frozen for the jaunty release in April
[18:03] <philip_> why freeze them? so translators can catch up?
[18:03] <mdke> philip_: exactly right
[18:03] <philip_> if a translation is let's say 80% complete, do you include them?
[18:04] <mdke> I think the threshold is exactly 80%, as it happens :)
[18:04] <philip_> interesting
[18:05] <philip_> i work on the php manual, and we end up inserting english where the translations are missing (not saying this is perfect... but just comparing)
[18:05] <mdke> if a translation is 80% complete, the remaining 20% automatically shows in English
[18:05] <mdke> but if a translation is less than 80% complete, it isn't included in Ubuntu at all
[18:05] <philip_> ah
[18:05] <mdke> this is because we don't have enough CD space to ship that many translations, so we choose the most complete ones
[18:06] <philip_> interesting
[18:06] <mdke> ideally, we'd do it differently, but there are some technical objections
[18:07] <philip_> yeah, gets tricky
[18:07] <philip_> do you like working with po files? i'm considering proposing this and implementing for us
[18:08] <mdke> yes, it's excellent.
[18:08] <philip_> it's sad when we change markup to the english docbook, thus rendering every translation of said file as outdated
[18:08] <mdke> as long as the toolchain for converting the documentation to a po file is robust enough
[18:08] <mdke> in the case of xml, there is a good tool (xml2po)
[18:08] <philip_> i'm still learning about this process
[18:08] <philip_> and studying ubuntu :)
[18:08] <mdke> philip_: with xml2po, each string is separate so the translators only have to update individual paragraphs
[18:09] <philip_> i must say your "how to contribute" page is amazing
[18:09] <philip_> ours is total fail
[18:09] <mdke> the general page?
[18:09] <philip_> the main page for ubuntu, but specifically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[18:10] <mdke> that's good to hear
[18:10] <mdke> we have revised it quite a bit in an attempt to make it clear
[18:10] <philip_> the only part that wasn't clear is how to check out the source, for bzr dummies like me
[18:10]  * mdke nods
[18:10] <mdke> philip_: feel free to amend it, a fresh pair of eyes is always good
[18:11] <philip_> didn't realize bzr knows about the ubuntu namespace, without an url and such
[18:11] <philip_> so struggled to find an url
[18:11] <mdke> bzr has some integration with Launchpad which makes things simple
[18:11] <mdke> that works with any project using Launchpad, not just Ubuntu :)
[18:11] <philip_> magic
[18:13] <j1mc> mdke: what element determines whether or not the draft watermark is printed?  is it this? <xsl:param name="draft.mode" select="'yes'"/>
[18:14] <mdke> j1mc: yes, you should change that to 'no'
[18:14] <j1mc> awesome.  glad i found that.  thanks.
[18:14] <mdke> :)
[18:16] <nixternal> hola!
[18:16] <mdke> hi nixternal
[18:16] <nixternal> j1mc: you gonna be home in time for Flourish on Friday and Saturday? If you don't come and see my talk, I will be hurt :p
[18:17] <nixternal> how goes it Mr. East?
[18:17] <j1mc> nixternal: i'll only be there on saturday.
[18:17] <j1mc> :(
[18:17] <nixternal> grrr
[18:17] <nixternal> well, I will be on the Open Source Panel so you can see that
[18:18] <mdke> nixternal: fine thanks, you?
[18:18] <nixternal> I was planning on attacking the creator of Ruby, but after reading up on him, he is a cool dude
[18:18] <nixternal> mdke: doing good, trying to find a job in this wonderful American economy :)
[18:18] <mdke> nixternal: ah, best wishes for that
[18:18] <nixternal> thank you sir
[18:45] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[18:45] <nixternal> hallo
[18:45] <jjesse> did i ask if you were around the week of the 13th of april?  i'll be in oakbrook
[18:45] <nixternal> I should be around
[18:46] <nixternal> ya, you asked already :p
[18:46] <nixternal> aren't you in Evanston right now?
[18:46] <jjesse> doing it remotely, was going to be in evanston, but client has no budget this year so doing work remotely
[18:46] <jjesse> so i sit at my desk working through gotomeeting.com
[18:47] <jjesse> which doesn't have a linux client, so i have to run an xp vm to do any work
[18:47] <nixternal> ahh..was gonna tell you to make sure to hit up their Irish Pubs...bar none the best I have been in
[18:48] <nixternal> you going to be working at McDonalds headquarters in Oak Brook?
[18:48] <nixternal> you can see Hamburger University :)
[18:49] <jjesse> lol, i wish
[18:49] <jjesse> no symantec has an office there i'll be working out of
[18:49] <nixternal> hrmm, i didn't know symantec moved to Oak Brook
[18:50] <jjesse> just a chicago office
[18:50] <nixternal> they used to be next door to CA (Computer Associations)
[18:50] <nixternal> err, Associates..the other virus software company
[19:01] <jjesse> hrmm probablly, don't know how long they've been in oakbrook