[03:19] <ebroder> Could someone on motu retarget bug 343036 as not fixed in Hardy?
[03:50] <mistya> hi there! I just installed ubuntu. it's fantastic! Thank's dev. Good Job
[03:57] <jtholmes> can someone tell me where the name of the file containing  partman/filter_mounted is
[04:01] <TheMuso> ARGH!
[04:02] <TheMuso> cUploaded a test ppa to Ubuntu!! :S
[04:02] <robert_ancell> does anyone know how to disable notify-osd?
[04:03] <TheMuso> any archive admins around who could reject my upload? :S
[04:03] <TheMuso> gah too late
[04:03] <stgraber> TheMuso: looks that way :) Was a bit surprised seeing the changelog for that pulseaudio.
[04:05] <TheMuso> stgraber: yeah. Need to default my dput config to my ppa from now on.
[04:06] <stgraber> were you planning to get this one in Jaunty anyway ? might be a bit difficult to revert to the old one otherwise ...
[04:07] <TheMuso> stgraber: no I wasn't, thats the damn problem!
[04:08] <stgraber> ok, so pulse in jaunty will have a funny version number then :) as Jaunty's 0.9.14 will need to have a version number of at least 0.9.15
[04:09] <TheMuso> Right
[04:09]  * TheMuso feels really stupid right now
[04:10]  * stgraber almost did it a few times .. that's the usual problem when maintaining a PPA with backports, another with test versions and also having the rights to upload to main (/me should also default to PPA ...)
[04:12] <TheMuso> ok I rushed to do an epoch to fix it. Gah I'm clumsy today
[04:13] <pwnguin> does pulseaudio sync from debian often anyways?
[04:14] <TheMuso> pwnguin: We merge, but we haven't synced ever afaik.
[04:14] <pwnguin> fun.
[04:14] <TheMuso> pwnguin: Yeah.
[04:14] <pwnguin> wacom is in a situation where i think someone bumped the epoch
[04:15] <pwnguin> the results are unfun
[04:15] <TheMuso> Well this is punishment for my lax in concentration and stupidity.
[04:17] <TheMuso> heh its not all bad, the ppa version ended up as dependency wait.
[04:19]  * TheMuso reckons soyuz should reject uploads with ppa in the version string that get accidentally uploaded to ubuntu proper.
[04:20] <pwnguin> you're now at the blame stage of grieving
[04:21] <TheMuso> pwnguin: Probably, but I still think its a good idea.
[04:22] <TheMuso> Or... Depending on what can be done with the pre upload command in dput, have a check done there.
[05:59] <Caesar> cjwatson: re those bugs
[05:59] <Caesar> Yeah, I can fix it in Debian
[06:00] <Caesar> I need to give the DHCP package a major overhaul
[06:01] <Hobbsee> mmm...nice new irssi
[06:39] <balarka> hello
[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[06:41] <balarka> dholbach, good morning
[06:41] <dholbach> hi balarka
[06:41] <balarka> dholbach, hi!
[06:41] <balarka> dholbach, i am new to ubuntu devel group
[06:42] <balarka> dholbach, i am curious to know where to start in helping the community with my code
[06:42] <balarka> dholbach, can you help me?
[06:43] <dholbach> so you wrote some code and want it included in Ubuntu?
[06:43] <balarka> nope
[06:43] <balarka> just want to contribute
[06:43] <balarka> to existing projects
[06:43] <dholbach> ah excellent
[06:43] <balarka> or new projects
[06:43] <balarka> anything is fine
[06:43] <dholbach> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted then
[06:44] <dholbach> it contains links to docs of our processes, our tools and where to find stuff to work on
[06:44] <dholbach> I hope you don't mind some reading in the beginning :-)
[06:44] <balarka> actually i went through most of them
[06:44] <balarka> sure sure..
[06:44] <balarka> no probelm
[06:44] <dholbach> just ask your questions in #ubuntu-motu about packaging stuff
[06:44] <dholbach> we have a bunch of helpful people in there
[06:44] <dholbach> we also have some https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training sessions coming up soon
[06:44] <balarka> ooh woow
[06:45] <balarka> i came to know from the docs that..
[06:45] <balarka> involvement starts from packaging?
[06:45] <balarka> is that correct
[06:45] <dholbach> packaging is basically "learning the tools"
[06:45] <balarka> ooh
[06:45] <dholbach> like how do I upgrade a package to a new upstream version or how do I get a patch included
[06:46] <balarka> ooh
[06:46] <dholbach> or what does it mean if "build fails due to XYZ" or "package is uninstallable for some reason"
[06:46] <balarka> so when can someone involve writing code
[06:47] <dholbach> there's lots of bug reports where just a bit of hacking (and knowing how to integrate it into the source package) is very very useful
[06:47] <balarka> ooh
[06:47] <balarka> got it
[06:47] <dholbach> rock on! :)
[06:48] <balarka> i am interested on java projects..
[06:48] <balarka> you have any idea
[06:48] <balarka> whom i need to contact
[06:48] <balarka> i mean which channel
[06:48] <dholbach> try hanging out in #ubuntu-java and ask the folks in there if they have open projects or open bugs that need resolving
[06:48] <dholbach> ttx, doko and slytherin are people you could contact
[06:49] <dtchen> e.g., updating eclipse
[06:49] <balarka> ooh
[06:49] <balarka> so which are do you work.?
[06:49] <balarka> just curious to know..
[06:50] <dholbach> "so which are do you work.?" - what do you mean?
[06:50] <balarka> i am sorry
[06:50] <balarka> which area do you work
[06:50] <balarka> is my question
[06:50] <balarka> in ubuntu
[06:51] <dholbach> little bits of everything, I used to work on desktop stuff, but now I'm more generally trying to make it as fun and straight-forward as possible to be involved with Ubuntu Development :)
[06:51] <balarka> woow
[06:51] <balarka> thats exciting..
[06:51] <balarka> so you are official devel for ubuntu is it?
[06:51] <Amaranth> dholbach is one of the four horsemen :P
[06:52] <balarka> oh cool
[06:52] <dholbach> if you mean an approved member of the Ubuntu development team, than yes
[06:52] <balarka> amazing..
[06:52] <dholbach> s/than/then
[06:52] <balarka> i seriously feel so glad being able to talk to a core ubuntu stud
[06:52] <balarka> excellent!
[06:52] <dholbach> haha
[06:53] <balarka> nope.. i mean it.. i never come across anyone till now who works with devel of ubuntu
[06:53] <balarka> so i am elated now
[06:53] <balarka> :)
[06:53] <pitti> Good morning
[06:54] <Amaranth> balarka: This channel is full of such people :)
[06:54] <balarka> hmm..
[06:54] <pitti> bryce: split 8x5 issues> thanks; this will make it easier to track
[06:54] <Amaranth> balarka: And with a little work you could be one of those people too
[06:54] <balarka> i never knew that.. i was diverted to this by  a friend
[06:54] <dholbach> balarka: you should definitely hang out in the Packaging Training sessions I talked about above
[06:54] <balarka> coool.. i would dream to be
[06:55] <balarka> dholbach, for sure..
[06:55] <dholbach> rock and roll
[06:55] <balarka> i am going thru the page now
[06:55] <dholbach> take your time :)
[06:55] <pitti> directhex: I'm certainly part of the desktop track planning, yes
[06:56] <balarka> dholbach, so its gonna come this first thursday right?
[06:56] <dholbach> yep
[06:56] <balarka> cool
[06:57] <pitti> slangasek: 345531> I'll have a look, and comment in the bug
[06:58] <balarka> dholbach,  there is no one responding on #ubuntu-java channel
[06:59] <balarka> dholbach, so what activities does packagin involve?
[06:59] <balarka> dholbach, is that just getting dependencies solved, compiling.. makefile stuff?
[07:00] <dholbach> balarka: just be patient, some of them might be sleeping and waking up later
[07:00] <balarka> dholbach, or a lot more involved
[07:00] <balarka> dholbach, sure.. hahah
[07:00] <dholbach> balarka: check out the packaging guide, it's going to make things a lot clearer
[07:01] <balarka> dholbach, did  you mean this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[07:01] <dholbach> yep
[07:01] <balarka> cool
[07:01] <balarka> will go thru it
[07:01] <dholbach> super
[07:02] <balarka> so will join the training channel on april 2nd then
[07:02] <balarka> dholbach, and can meet you there with some questions.. after reading this link
[07:02] <balarka> :)
[07:03] <dholbach> balarka: if it's specific packaging stuff, just ask in #ubuntu-motu
[07:03] <balarka> oh ok
[07:03] <dholbach> also the other stuff on MOTU/GettingStarted is going to be interesting
[07:03] <balarka> not much package specific
[07:03] <balarka> am a new commer to open source development
[07:03] <balarka> so wont have anything in depth kind of
[07:03] <dholbach> that's great :-)
[07:03] <balarka> but would certainly want to start my journey in open source
[07:04] <dholbach> super
[07:04] <balarka> yeah.. i am pretty excited about it
[07:04] <dholbach> play around with the stuff on PackagingGuide/Recipes too
[07:05] <dholbach> so you get an idea of how it all works
[07:07] <balarka> perfect
[07:07] <balarka> that should be nice resouces for a good start i guess
[07:07] <directhex> pitti, can you avoid scheduling anything where mono might be discussed on the friday?
[07:08] <pitti> directhex: it's a little too early for such request, scheduling will happen start of May or so
[07:08] <pitti> directhex: you'll just mark yourself as not present on Friday, then we'll figure that out automatically
[07:10] <directhex> pitti, already marked. i was just told to make sure the desktop team people were aware. so consider yourself aware!
[07:14] <pitti> asac: hm, someone reopened bug 346835; do you think the remaining case is still RC? should it perhaps be split into a separate bug?
[07:25] <slangasek> TheMuso: you've seen that the latest linux-ports FTBFS on hppa?
[07:35] <slangasek> lool, NCommander, ogra: does texlive-bin still need the build-dep on g++-4.2?
[07:45] <pitti> Riddell: do you know anyone working on bug 280762? seems this is not a jaunty regression, and it doesn't have an assignee
[07:46] <robert_ancell> what was the name of the program that would start a x server in a window?
[07:46] <dholbach> robert_ancell: xnest something?
[07:46] <robert_ancell> dholbach: thanks
[07:50] <slangasek> cjwatson: do you know if there's an MIR for micro-evtd-udeb?
[07:56] <dholbach> bryce and tjaalton: do you think you can take a look at bug 352335? it makes the package build again, but I dunno if all the quilt/xfsbs mumbo-jumbo is OK as it is
[07:58] <tjaalton> dholbach: it could be synced from experimental
[07:59] <dholbach> tjaalton: sounds good
[07:59] <tjaalton> acecad/aiptek/fpit
[07:59] <tjaalton> elographics/penmount/void once they are uploaded
[07:59] <tjaalton> new upstream versions though, but mostly due to build issues
[08:00] <tjaalton> so low/no risk
[08:04] <TheMuso> slangasek: Yes, and I am pretty sure I know why, and I don't see a need to fix it until I have to rebase on another mainline jaunty upload, or someone wants it, or there is no more other linux-ports work needed
[08:04] <slangasek> TheMuso: ah; it leaves NBS a mess in the meantime :(
[08:04] <TheMuso> slangasek: Right, I can have a fix pushed in a matter of 5-10 mins if you'd like.
[08:05] <slangasek> would be appreciated
[08:05] <TheMuso> ok
[08:30] <pitti> bryce: 322646> *hug* great!
[08:49] <TheMuso> slangasek: uploaded
[09:24] <bryce> pitti: fix uploaded
[09:32] <asac> pitti: closed it again
[09:33] <asac> pitti: usually reporters cannot read the bug title.
[09:46] <StevenK> asac: The icon theme with the green NM icons is at http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GNOME-colors?content=82562
[09:46] <StevenK> asac: If you look at the 3 previews, it's the bottom most right icon in all of them
[09:46] <asac> StevenK: ah ok. cool
[09:52] <cjwatson> slangasek: micro-evtd-udeb> I don't know - I could have sworn there was one at one point but couldn't see one last time I looked
[09:52] <cjwatson> lool: ^- do you know?
[09:52] <cjwatson> jtholmes: init.d/parted in the partman-base source package, but I'm just in the process of rewriting it right now to deal with bug 347916 ...
[09:54] <cjwatson> TheMuso: an epoch for pulseaudio? erk. The right answer would have been 0.9.15~test7+really0.9.14-0ubuntu16 :-(
[09:54] <cjwatson> TheMuso: now merge-o-matic will be permanently broken
[09:54] <cjwatson> (or, well, will never show pulseaudio)
[10:14] <pitti> asac: thanks
[10:14] <pitti> bryce: rocking, thanks
[10:22] <tkamppeter> pitti, bug 348316 seems to be a kernel issue. The users with problems have them with any backend: HAL, HPLIP, USB, unpatched USB ... The libusb-based USB backend I have in a modified CUPS package on my PPA now, but did not get any answer on that. Seems that this is really a Kernel problem ...
[10:24] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you have a machine where this happens?
[10:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: or anyone who could do an strace, or other helpful information?
[10:34] <pitti> slangasek: bad news; we can't add gnome-user-guide-* to language-support-*, that's bad for Kubuntu (bug 352036); I'll have to add them to language-pack-gnome-*, which means that they'll get back on the CD
[10:34] <pitti> slangasek: I don't see another way right now
[10:36] <seb128> pitti: can't we use conditional depends?
[10:36] <pitti> it would require "implication" depends
[10:36] <seb128> what do you mean?
[10:36] <pitti> i. e. "depends on gnome-user-guide-de if yelp is installed" or so
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: what is a conditional dependency?
[10:37] <cjwatson> seb128: no such facility
[10:37] <cjwatson> pitti: not all of them will go back on the CD if you add them to language-pack-gnome-* - I was looking at this when we were talking about it on this channel yesterday
[10:38] <tkamppeter> pitti, my second Jaunty box (i386) has also no problem to print via USB.
[10:38] <cjwatson> pitti: I think we'll still have saved several megabytes
[10:38] <seb128> pitti: well, "documentation | some_package_not_installed_in_ubuntu_but_$flavors_not_wanting_it"
[10:39] <seb128> pitti: similar to the type-handling "depends | not-gnu" hacks
[10:39] <cjwatson> the best long-term answer for this is to get rid of language-support-* entirely, use special fields in Packages instead, and teach tools to use that
[10:39] <pitti> cjwatson: right, but for those that we ship on CDs
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: that would break for boxes which have both installed, thuogh
[10:40] <seb128> pitti: use a dummy package which is shipped on CDs only?
[10:40] <cjwatson> seb128: at this point in jaunty, we should play safe and use techniques that we know to work
[10:40] <pitti> cjwatson: for this particular case, I'd like bug 123020 to get implemented
[10:40] <pitti> (in soyuz)
[10:40] <cjwatson> when you get to the point of inventing dummy packages shipped only on CDs, that's an excellent sign that the discussion should have been had several months ago ;-)
[10:40] <pitti> so that we can ship help translations, etc. directly in language-pack-*
[10:41] <apachelogger_> mvo: can we make qt-langauage-selector not install language-support-translations-$iso? ... that metpackage depends on localization of which only 1/4 are useful on a default kubuntu, also that package now depends on gnome-user-guide-$iso, which pulls in half the gnome stack
[10:41] <tkamppeter> pitti, any idea how to strace the CUPS backend when CUPS is executing a print job?
[10:41] <cjwatson> pitti: well, OK, but the general problem still remains for language-support-*
[10:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: sudo strace -o /tmp/trace -fv <pid>
[10:41] <pitti> cjwatson: right
[10:42] <cjwatson> pitti: (and note that that solution is no different in terms of space usage than simply having language-pack-gnome-* depend on things)
[10:43] <pitti> cjwatson: right, but structurally easier
[10:43] <pitti> cjwatson, seb128: I updated bug 352036 with the current plan; does that look okay to you?
[10:43] <cjwatson> pitti: what I'd like to see is something like Package: openoffice.org-thesaurus-de Language: de/writing/gnome or similar
[10:43] <cjwatson> seb128: yes, I think so
[10:43] <cjwatson> oops
[10:43] <cjwatson> pitti: ^-
[10:44] <pitti> thanks
[10:44] <cjwatson> basically this is working around the lack of language-support-gnome-translations-* but I'm *really* not keen on even more metapackages :-)
[10:45] <pitti> I tried to avoid even bringing up this option..
[10:45] <pitti> not only would it create even more package clutter, but also need installer and language-selector changes, etc.
[10:46] <mvo> apachelogger_: sure, if ArneGoetje has no objections, that can be done (but a patch would be good, I'm pretty busy currently)
[10:46] <cjwatson> right, I'd rather do it properly, with override fields rather than metapackages
[10:47] <cjwatson> apachelogger_: see bug 352036 which should deal with the worst of the problems currently affecting Kubuntu
[10:47] <cjwatson> apachelogger_: you came in in the middle of a conversation about it :)
[10:47] <apachelogger_> oh, neato :)
[10:48] <cjwatson> apachelogger_: long-term I'd prefer to see something more subtle than having to juggle metapackage requirements (see my comments above)
[10:49] <apachelogger_> mvo: ok, we can target that change for 9.10 I suppose :)
[10:49] <cjwatson> theoretically, it might even make sense for language-selector to do something like "install these support packages provided that all their dependencies without Language fields are already installed" - i.e. implement conditional dependencies outside apt
[10:53] <kagou> Hi
[10:53] <seb128> lut kagou
[10:54] <kagou> Hi seb128
[10:54] <kagou> is it possible to have a new upgrade for language-pack (1:9.04+20090320 for language-pack-gnome-fr-base) is 11 days old
[10:54] <seb128> kagou: there was a ppa with daily updates, not sure if that's still active though
[10:54] <seb128> pitti: ^
[10:55] <pitti> didn't we get new langpacks just yesterday?
[10:55] <kagou> yeah seb128, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-gnome-fr-base
[10:55] <pitti> Version: 1:9.04+20090330
[10:55] <pitti> (language-pack-gnome-fr)
[10:55] <kagou> I'm testing daily iso to find problem with translations
[10:56] <cjwatson> indeed, we ship delta language packs rather than revving -base all the time
[10:56] <kagou> pitti, ok for it but 20090320 for pack-gnome-fr-base
[10:56] <freinhard> pitti: yes, gnome-user-guide shouldn't be in language-support-translations, that's what we had yesterday
[10:56] <pitti> kagou: what cjwatson just said
[10:56] <seb128> kagou: the translations as updated as delta in the non base package as just said
[10:56] <cjwatson> kagou: the entire *point* of the split between LL-base and LL is that we don't have to update -base all the time
[10:56] <seb128> kagou: ie you have translations dating from yesterday in jaunty
[10:56] <seb128> or 2 days ago rather
[10:57] <kagou> ok seb128 so we have some problems to investigate with translation team
[10:57] <cjwatson> kagou: is it something in the installer? installer translations are updated by hand
[10:57] <kagou> cjwatson, indeed
[10:57] <cjwatson> kagou: which strings?
[10:57] <apachelogger_> cjwatson: ultimately language-selector probably should have a list of applications (that use individual language packages), and only install the appropriate language packages if the applications are actually installed. that way $user always gets the right amount of localization, which is kind of difficult when using metapackages anyway
[10:58] <cjwatson> apachelogger_: that information belongs in special fields in the override file, not hardcoded in language-selector, IMO
[10:58] <cjwatson> apachelogger: that information belongs in special fields in the override file, not hardcoded in language-selector, IMO
[10:58] <kagou> cjwatson, if you reed french ;) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-fr-l10n/2009-April/002918.html
[10:59] <cjwatson> kagou: sufficiently to make that out, thanks
[11:00] <kagou> your welcome cjwatson
[11:00] <apachelogger> cjwatson: yeah, you are probably right on that :)
[11:03]  * directhex speaks to travel agent
[11:03] <directhex> this UDS stuff is rather exciting, really
[11:05] <jpds> directhex: 'tis only just the beginning ;-)
[11:06]  * Laney cuts you all
[11:06] <directhex> jpds, yeah, but i've never been to a conference which wasn't mostly full of sales pitches
[11:09] <StevenK> directhex: You'll be at UDS?
[11:10] <directhex> StevenK, i will indeed
[11:10] <StevenK> directhex: Awesome!
[11:13] <biberao> hi
[11:13] <biberao> pitti, you there?
[11:14] <pitti> biberao: hi
[11:14] <biberao> i was sent to you
[11:14] <biberao> to ask 2 questions related to the guest user
[11:15] <biberao> can i?
[11:16] <pitti> biberao: just ask :)
[11:16] <biberao> ok
[11:16] <directhex> StevenK, i will be departing a day early though
[11:16] <biberao> how can i not allow Guest User to login on gdm and remove it from fast user switch applet
[11:16] <biberao> ?
[11:17] <pitti> biberao: the user cannot log in through gdm by default
[11:17] <pitti> "guest user", I mean
[11:17] <biberao> pitti, but its logging there
[11:17] <biberao> i dont know how
[11:17] <pitti> biberao: logging?
[11:17] <biberao> sorry my english
[11:17] <biberao> :P
[11:17] <biberao> it was logged in
[11:17] <pitti> biberao: if you want to remove it from fusa, just uninstall gdm-guest-session to disable the functinoality completely
[11:18] <directhex> oh, that's one thing that bugs me about the Guest User. i keep getting a contentless mythbuntu desktop, even though mydefault gdm session is gnome
[11:18] <ogra> add some content then
[11:18] <ogra> :P
[11:18] <directhex> ogra, i'd prefer an ubuntu desktop
[11:18] <biberao> ok removed gdm-guest-session
[11:18] <pitti> directhex: please file a bug
[11:19] <biberao> pitti, do you know why it lets log in
[11:19] <biberao> ?
[11:19] <pitti> biberao: "it" == ?
[11:19] <pitti> biberao: please describe exactly what you see
[11:19] <biberao> gdm
[11:19] <biberao> when i came to the pc
[11:19] <pitti> biberao: you shouldn't be able to log in as guest in gdm
[11:20] <biberao> someone logged in with guest
[11:20] <pitti> only through fusa (or by manually running the script)
[11:20] <biberao> so it was from fusa
[11:20] <biberao> so i guess it will be fixed
[11:20] <biberao> but
[11:21] <biberao> gdm actually allowed me when i typed guest
[11:21] <biberao> to log in
[11:21] <biberao> im going to reboot
[11:21] <biberao> and test
[11:21] <biberao> brb
[11:21] <pitti> ugh
[11:23] <ogra> pitti, well, what happens if i "adduser guest" :)
[11:23] <ogra> he probably has an actual guest user
[11:24] <ogra> or does adduser prevent this
[11:24] <pitti> aah
[11:24] <pitti> no, it doesn't
[11:24] <directhex> hm, definitely have some kind of funny desktop when logging in as guest
[11:24] <directhex> let me try my VM
[11:25] <pitti> ArneGoetje: when do you plan the next language-pack-* update for jaunty?
[11:27] <directhex> oh, my laptop also goes tits up when i log out of the guest session. that's not cool either
[11:27] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I have the code ready for adding extra langpack recommends, and the list of those
[11:27] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I wonder if I need to manually update the affected ones now, or just wait for the next langpack upload
[11:32] <biberao> hi
[11:32] <biberao> pitti,
[11:32] <biberao> i think its all fixed now
[11:32] <pitti> biberao: I see what you meant
[11:32] <biberao> thanks
[11:32] <pitti> biberao: do you have a "normal" guest user? what does "id guest" show?
[11:32] <biberao> how do i check that?
[11:32] <biberao> :X
[11:33] <biberao> my guest account came default with ubuntu
[11:33] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks. I have added a comment to bug 348316
[11:33] <ogra> open a terminal, type: id guest
[11:33] <biberao> damn i need to remember my linux commands :P
[11:33] <pitti> biberao: as I said, "id guest"
[11:34] <biberao> sorry i just woke up 30 mins ago
[11:34] <biberao> i didnt even see the quotes
[11:34] <biberao> lol
[11:34] <biberao> pitti, no such user
[11:34] <pitti> biberao: okay
[11:34] <pitti> biberao: so in which condition could you log into gdm as "guest"?
[11:35] <biberao> pitti, i found out that you were right
[11:35] <biberao> guest cant login unless using fusa
[11:35] <pitti> right
[11:35] <pitti> *phew*
[11:35] <biberao> thanks
[11:36] <biberao> since im here my pcs are slow
[11:36] <biberao> and i have problems with usage of my ubuntu, these pcs looked faster with windows ihih
[11:36] <biberao> should i use blackbox?
[11:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, great
[11:39] <biberao> well
[11:39] <biberao> gtg
[11:39] <biberao> take care
[11:39] <directhex> it's definitely using a mythbuntu session. mythfrontend spew in .xsession-errors
[11:39] <directhex> how does the guest session pick which gdm session to use?
[12:00] <pitti> ArneGoetje: nevermind, with some shell hackery I'll do a mass reupload of those 20ish language-pack-gnome-*
[12:06] <pitti> directhex: it just runs /etc/gdm/Xsession
[12:11] <RicardoPerez> pitti: hi! only one question: the drivers name in restricted-manager shows untranslated. Is it right?
[12:12] <pitti> RicardoPerez: depends if it is translatable in the first place
[12:12] <pitti> RicardoPerez: jockey attempts to translate it
[12:12] <RicardoPerez> pitti: do you know which Launchpad template has the driver names? I'd like to check it...
[12:12] <pitti> RicardoPerez: "jockey"
[12:13] <directhex> i have two combined issues which make debugging awkward. my guest user's session seems to use mythbuntu, no matter what is configured in gdmsetup; and logging out as guest causes the screen to lock up with lots of crap on it
[12:13] <RicardoPerez> pitti: OK, so it seems to be a problem in the tool...
[12:13] <RicardoPerez> pitti: jockey template is fully translated, including the drivers names...
[12:14] <RicardoPerez> pitti: for example, restricted manager shows "NVIDIA accelerated graphics driver", instead of "Controlador para tarjetas gráficas NVIDIA" in Spanish... The translation is here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/es/82/+translate since 2008
[12:17] <RicardoPerez> pitti: I'll submit a bugreport about that, but I don't know against what package. restricted-manager or jockey?
[12:18] <mvo> apachelogger: it should be relatively easy to fix/change
[12:25] <pitti> RicardoPerez: ubuntu-bug jockey-gtk
[12:41] <RicardoPerez> pitti: ok, thanks a lot
[12:42] <jtholmes> cjwatson, ping  weak password
[12:55] <jpds> mvo: can you please confirm if bug #18645 has really been fixed?
[12:55] <mvo> jpds: that is fixed
[12:56] <mvo> jpds: I don't think it got a lot of testing yet though, but it should be there now
[12:56] <jpds> mvo: OK - I'll mark it as fix released, wanted to check with you first.
[12:56] <mvo> thanks jpds
[12:57] <pitti> BWAH LP! stop eating my comments when I add an invalid assignee
[12:58] <jpds> mvo: no problem.
[13:00] <mdke> mvo: I've encountered a problem with gdebi where it forcibly uninstalls rarian-compat and installs scrollkeeper when I use it to install gnome-user-docs or ubuntu-docs
[13:00] <mdke> mvo: it's described in comments 13 and 14 of bug 281277
[13:00] <mdke> mvo: do you have a bug report for that already or any guidance about what information I need to submit with a new report?
[13:01] <mvo> mdke: let me try to reproduce
[13:03] <mdke> mvo: thanks. you should be able to reproduce it with this - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24562564/ubuntu-docs_9.04.6_all.deb
[13:04] <mvo> mdke: I just did in a chroot, thanks
[13:04] <mvo> mdke: if you could file a new bug that would be nice, just paste the information in comment 13, that should be enough
[13:05] <mdke> mvo: ok, thanks
[13:14] <mvo> mdke: and please give me the bugnumber when its there :)
[13:15] <cjwatson> jtholmes: can you pick just one channel for your question and stick to it? :-)
[13:31] <Riddell> mvo: in bug 348704 how did you do the upgrade?
[13:32] <mvo> Riddell: in a automatic kvm upgrade and in a pbuilder chroot
[13:32] <mvo> Riddell: but was not able to reproduce :( you can always reproduce it?
[13:32] <Riddell> mvo: always upgrading using DistUpgrade tool from a fresh intrepid install
[13:33] <Riddell> but I can't understand what the issue would be, they're just symlinks
[13:33] <Riddell> there's no postinst script to do something wrong that I can see
[13:33] <mvo> Riddell: problably a bug in python-support, but I need to reproduce it first
[13:34] <mdke> mvo: it's bug 353088
[13:45] <cjwatson> kagou: brief summary of your translation problems: 1) fix committed; 2) can't do much about that, firefox translations are in language packs 3) newish string and unfortunately will change again but I'll try to make sure to import translations 4) untranslatable, ubiquity bug 5/6) probably need translation in gparted upstream, or else are due to a missing language pack on the live filesystem 7) partly fixed but the last ...
[13:45] <cjwatson> ... translation export I have doesn't have a French translation for the "Use weak password?" title 8) untranslatable, ubiquity bug 9/10) these are weird because those strings seem to be translated in apt and apt's translations aren't stripped for language packs
[13:45] <cjwatson> shut up, ubottu
[13:45] <cjwatson> kagou: 9/10 might be something to do with the locale not being set yet
[13:47] <seb128> cjwatson: do you need somebody to open bugs about the ubiquity bugs?
[13:48] <cjwatson> seb128: they have TODO comments in the source already
[13:48] <seb128> ok
[13:48] <cjwatson> so don't really need bugs as well
[13:48] <seb128> likely to be fixed for jaunty?
[13:49] <seb128> ok, who is our dbus expert there? ;-)
[13:49] <cjwatson> probably not
[13:49] <cjwatson> too many RC thngs
[13:49] <cjwatson> things
[13:50] <seb128> Keybuk, pitti: would it make sense to let gnome-session start the session bus? I think we have been coming forth and back on that
[13:50] <seb128> right now gvfs is dbus spawned
[13:51] <seb128> but the dbus session bus environment has the wrong SSH_* variable
[13:51] <seb128> ie not the gnome-keyring one
[13:51] <seb128> which means GNOME doesn't use the keyring in nautilus for example
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: instead of Xsession.d/?
[13:51] <Mithrandir> seb128: it actually seems quite right in jaunty, since it then uses my gpg-agent ssh support.
[13:52] <pitti> seb128: seems quite late for such a change, since it most likely would affect derivatives?
[13:52] <seb128> Mithrandir: it should be using gnome-keyring
[13:52] <pitti> Mithrandir: that was fixed yesterday
[13:52] <pitti> gnupg2 and gpg-agent was accidentally pulled into GNOME
[13:52] <pitti> (by default)
[13:52] <pitti> and thus pinentry got used
[13:52] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm installing them here manually anyway.
[13:52] <Mithrandir> since gnome-keyring doesn't seem to talk to my smart card.
[13:54] <seb128> pitti: could we try to identify gnome session in 75dbus_dbus-launch and not start it in such cases?
[13:55] <pitti> seb128: if that's possible easily, sure
[13:55] <pitti> seb128: nautilus uses it for ssh/sftp/smb passwords, etc.?
[13:55] <seb128> pitti: ssh, my only issue there is that nautilus doesn't use the gnome-keyring ssh agent
[13:56] <seb128> pitti: the SSH_* point to ssh-agent and not gnome-keyring
[13:56] <seb128> look to /proc/$(pidof gvfsd)/environ
[13:58] <pitti> seb128: well, does the Xsession.d script have enough information about which program to run the session as?
[13:58] <pitti> or is that only determined later?
[13:59] <seb128> pitti: I'm not sure actually
[14:07]  * ogra mumbles ... so creating a vfat image from an iso with identical size and then using mcopy to copy the content over gets me a "disk full" error if i use -s with mcopy (recursive copying) ... how can that be
[14:07] <pitti> mdz: thanks for the apport fixes
[14:08] <pitti> mdz: would you mind if I move attach_media_build() to general-hooks/ubuntu.py, since it's ubuntu specific?
[14:08] <mdz> pitti: np, it was a pleasure to do some small programming
[14:08] <mdz> pitti: not at all; that was what gave me the idea
[14:08] <mdz> pitti: but I didn't want to commit an architectural change like that without discussing with you
[14:09] <pitti> I like the idea of general-hooks/ubuntu.py
[14:12] <mdz> ogra: iso is more space efficient
[14:12] <ogra> ah
[14:13]  * ogra tries du on the unpacked iso for determining the needed vfat size ...
[14:13] <pitti> mdz: BTW, I haven't forgotten about your "apport generic hook?" mail, it's just lower prio
[14:19] <ArneGoetje> pitti: next full export will happen on 10th.
[14:20] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ok, thanks; it's all fixed now, anyway
[14:22] <Unggnu> hi all
[14:22] <Unggnu> I wanted to make a bug report but I thought it might be better to recheck with your opinion
[14:23] <Unggnu> I think the gksu password caching is a security risk
[14:24] <Unggnu> if you use one system app from start menu the pass phrase is saved for a long time and every app started from menu or panel have root right if started with gksu
[14:24] <Unggnu> so basically a worm with user rights just have to wait until gksu is run, for updating or similar and it has root rights
[14:25] <Unggnu> Another issue is, why does every user home directory is readable for anyone except of some stuff like ssh or gpg?
[14:25] <reduz> hi
[14:26] <BUGabundo> pitti: ping
[14:26] <BUGabundo> do you have a few moments to help reduz with jokey and nvidia driver on jaunty?
[14:26] <Unggnu> And security updates should be downloaded automatically on desktop in the default configuration. What do you think?
[14:26] <cjwatson> bug 48734
[14:26] <cjwatson> Unggnu: I put a detailed explanation of why the home directory is that way in that bug ^-
[14:26] <Unggnu> cjwatson: thx
[14:27] <reduz> BUGabundo, jockey just says activating driver, but nothing really happens and if i enter/exit X, it still uses the xorg one
[14:29] <pitti> reduz: can you please put /var/log/jockey.log somewhere? (pastebin or attach to a bug report)
[14:29] <Unggnu> cjwatson: But Ubuntu is designed for desktop users afaik and in this case it makes sense. You want your own stuff private without changing permissions. Atm you are not asked and there is a reason why Windows has this feature since using NTFS. Everyone in community environment can change it.
[14:29] <cjwatson> Unggnu: bug 18905 would probably be worth fixing, but any worm that has access to your X display can already do whatever it wants, including hijacking a window running as root
[14:29] <pitti> reduz: tail /var/log/jockey.log should tell what it's doing right now
[14:29] <cjwatson> Unggnu: I have said my piece in that bug report and it's based on long experience; I do not expect to be persuaded
[14:29] <Unggnu> cjwatson: I think policy kit should be used for all this things so the passphrase is only cached for one app or saved.
[14:29] <cjwatson> sentences that start with "Ubuntu is designed for" are often false :-)
[14:29] <reduz> pitti:
[14:29] <reduz> 2009-04-01 10:26:46,191 DEBUG: Installing package: nvidia-glx-177
[14:30] <reduz> 2009-04-01 10:26:47,546 WARNING: modinfo for module nvidia failed: modinfo: could not find module nvidia
[14:30] <Unggnu> :)
[14:30] <pitti> reduz: hm, it doesn't seem to start installing then
[14:30] <cjwatson> Unggnu: policykit> yes, in most cases applications still running entirely as root should be converted to policykit
[14:30] <pitti> reduz: you don't happen to have synaptic or apt or any other package manager running?
[14:30] <reduz> pitti, nope
[14:30] <reduz> clean opened session
[14:31] <pitti> oh, hang on, it's not live any more
[14:31] <Unggnu> cjwatson: I just like security by design, especially if it has no penalties for a newbie.
[14:31] <pitti> reduz: ps aux|grep dpkg has anything?
[14:31] <cjwatson> Unggnu: of course it has penalties
[14:31] <cjwatson> Unggnu: if home directories are world-readable, it's harder for me to share a file with my wife using the same computer
[14:31] <reduz> pitti, nothing
[14:32] <Unggnu> cjwatson: use the same account if you have nothing to hide
[14:32] <cjwatson> Unggnu: as soon as this requirement comes up, people disable all the "security by design"
[14:32]  * Hobbsee adds a "not" into cjwatson's sentence
[14:32] <cjwatson> Unggnu: I have nothing to hide, but we have different desktop preferences and so it makes sense to have separate accounts
[14:32] <pitti> reduz: if you do this: sudo strace -v `pidof jockey-backend`
[14:32] <pitti> reduz: do you get an endless stream of stuff, or just a single call which it hangs on?
[14:33] <Unggnu> cjwatson: so if a newbie makes home readable for all it wouldn't hurt but ok
[14:33] <reduz> pitti, the strace help :)
[14:33] <cjwatson> Unggnu: like I say, except in the case of multi-user systems with dedicated system administration, there is typically a level of trust among people using the same computer. Excessively zealous security is worse than nothing.
[14:34] <reduz> pitti, jockey-backend seems to be running, though
[14:34] <Unggnu> cjwatson: I mean 90% of the computer os market handle it "zealous secure" and nearly no one grumps
[14:34] <pitti> reduz: oh, sorry
[14:35] <Unggnu> cjwatson: but more important is the gksu issue
[14:35] <ogra> mdz, thanks, adding a bit of buffer space helped
[14:35] <cjwatson> no-one grumps> wow, you must never talk to anyone :)
[14:35] <pitti> reduz: sudo strace -v `ps aux|grep jockey-backend | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}'`
[14:35] <Unggnu> not about this feature cjwatson :)
[14:35]  * pitti grumvles at ps for not DWIM
[14:35] <cjwatson> perhaps they invent crazy schemes involving mailing their files to each other when they're already on the same computer
[14:36] <Unggnu> cjwatson: :-D
[14:36] <cjwatson> or use Samba, or similar
[14:36] <reduz> pitti, strace: 4179: command not found
[14:36] <cjwatson> but in any case I don't think you can hold Windows up as a paragon of user security. It's well-known that people just open it up until it does what they need
[14:36] <pitti> reduz: sudo strace -v -p `ps aux|grep jockey-backend | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}'`
[14:36] <cjwatson> which is no better than starting out open, and less convenient
[14:36] <pitti> reduz: sorry (I'm busy with something else); this should work
[14:38] <Keybuk> seb128: if you start dbus from gnome-session, how do you get the address of the dbus socket to everything else?
[14:38] <reduz> pitti, not doing much
[14:38] <pitti> reduz: please pastebin the output
[14:38] <reduz> Process 4179 attached - interrupt to quit
[14:38] <reduz> restart_syscall(<... resuming interrupted call ...>
[14:39] <pitti> reduz: hm, looks like a deadlock then
[14:39] <pitti> reduz: can you always reproduce this, or did it just happen once?
[14:39] <reduz> pitti, booted twice, and both times i tried to run it, the same happened
[14:39] <pitti> reduz: let me /msg you to not spam the channel
[14:40] <reduz> pitti, sure
[14:41] <Unggnu> cjwatson: I am not sure with the paragon. It just bothers me that everyone tells Linux is more secure than Windows but atm Vista is more secure by design than Ubuntu. Data execution prevention, stack canaries, not readable user directory if not asked, no admin caching, autoupdates, browser runs with lower rights and so on. The biggest problem of Vista and later is the high market share so everyone interested tries to find and uses security hole
[14:41] <Unggnu> s.
[14:41] <Keybuk> seb128: how is gnome-keyring started?
[14:43] <Unggnu> cjwatson: They have made their homework imho. We shouldn't cound on a low market share => no risk.
[14:43] <Unggnu> *count
[14:43] <seb128> Keybuk: I'm discussing it with halfline on #gnome-hackers now
[14:43] <seb128> Keybuk: seems that gnome-keyring or gnome-session should use UpdateActivationEnvironment
[14:45] <BUGabundo> seb128: is bug 353131 one of yours or asac turf? already asked the user to install libbrasero-media0-dbgsym
[14:46] <asac> nautilus usually isn't me ;)
[14:46] <BUGabundo> I know asac, but its when pluging a 3g modem
[14:46] <ogra> asac, we could change that
[14:46] <BUGabundo> not seen by udev
[14:46] <asac> ogra: ;)
[14:46]  * BUGabundo seats and watchs asac punch ogra
[14:46] <asac> BUGabundo: lets wait for the retracers to kick in first
[14:47] <BUGabundo> okay
[14:47] <BUGabundo> in the mean time, I'll see if the user gets the debug symbols on his local system
[14:47] <ogra> BUGabundo, well, he mainly only cares for two packages :) that little browser thingie and this other program for networks
[14:47] <asac> BUGabundo: well. lets wait. if the retrace is good he doesnt need to install all the dbg packages
[14:48] <asac> ogra: i also have font stuff now ;)
[14:48] <ogra> ah, right
[14:48] <BUGabundo> ogra: ahaahah
[14:48] <BUGabundo> ogra: how many do you handle?
[14:48] <asac> ogra has always been lazy ;)
[14:49] <ogra> yeah, i'm only slacking through life here all day ...
[14:49] <ogra> just chatting on IRC from morning to evening ...
[14:49] <ogra> BUGabundo, currently i'm handling a full subarch
[14:50] <ogra> and the packages i touched last
[14:51] <seb128> BUGabundo: none of use and no need to ask anything while it has not been retraced
[14:51] <BUGabundo> ok seb128
[14:51] <seb128> use -> us
[14:51] <Unggnu> cjwatson: I have added a suggestion to the home directory bug report. What do you think. Anyway I guess it is to late for Jaunty.
[14:54] <cjwatson> Unggnu: no, I'm afraid I'm not going to add such a question to the installer; that's final
[14:54] <cjwatson> we have debated this endlessly for years
[14:54] <Unggnu> cjwatson: Do you have a link?
[14:54] <cjwatson> no
[14:55] <Unggnu> I don't get the problem of one checkbox line, but Ok. I guess there is a reason.
[14:57] <cjwatson> Ubuntu already has data execution prevention and stack canaries, which you incorrectly described as features of Vista over Ubuntu
[14:57] <cjwatson> I do tend to agree that we should ask about automatic updates somewhere; the alternate/server installer already does
[14:58] <Unggnu> cjwatson: it has, but it is disabled
[14:58] <BUGabundo> cjwatson: is there a blueprint for that?
[14:58] <cjwatson> problem of one checkbox line> in the alternate/server installer, that's one extra point of user interaction; in the desktop installer, the user page is already the biggest page on the installer and its visual size causes problems
[14:59] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: no, and it's not necessary for there to be
[14:59] <Unggnu> cjwatson: I know that a linux server with some configuration is at least as secure and most likely more secure.
[15:00]  * BUGabundo points that the Installer desktop on VESA is close to impossible
[15:01] <ogra> ??
[15:01] <mdke> slangasek: I think your recent change to gnome-user-docs may have introduced a problem - the omf files for the documents are no longer installed in /usr/share/omf as they should be, so none of the documents appear in yelp and all links to them are broken
[15:02] <cjwatson> Unggnu: PAE (for NX support) is problematic in terms of hardware support, that's true, so it does depend on which kernel you have installed. But I am not aware of stack canaries being disabled
[15:02] <ogra> BUGabundo, i'm running it on an 800x600  framebuffer desktop here and it works fine
[15:02] <mdke> slangasek: I'll file a bug and assign it to you, if you don't mind
[15:02] <Unggnu> cjwatson: All important Ubuntu apps are compiled with stack canaries?
[15:02] <cjwatson> ogra: yeah, that's only because the user page is currently in a scrolled window, which (a) looks pretty crap and (b) causes the timezone map to be too small for bigger screens
[15:02] <BUGabundo> ogra: yesterday I add a dell gx270 with the affected intel 865
[15:02] <BUGabundo> only VESA would login... 30% of the installer would not be seen
[15:03] <cjwatson> Unggnu: our gcc has used -fstack-protector by default since 6.10. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags
[15:03] <jelmer> seb128: ping
[15:03] <ogra> cjwatson, right, i agree about a ... b should be fixed by scaling
[15:03] <Unggnu> cjwatson: cool, thanks
[15:03] <seb128> jelmer: hello
[15:03] <jelmer> seb128: I've looked at OpenChange 0.8.2, but it includes some new libraries since 0.8.0 used by the server side
[15:04] <jelmer> seb128: would that be a problem for Ubuntu?
[15:04] <seb128> jelmer: I don't think so
[15:05] <seb128> jelmer: evolution-mapi is not usuable now so we need an update anyway I think
[15:08] <mdke> slangasek: ok, it's bug 353154 - I will also see if I can figure out how to fix it a bit later
[15:09] <jelmer> seb128: cool, thanks
[15:12] <directhex> hm, i wonder why i can't get evolution-mapi working
[15:13] <seb128> is it crashing?
[15:14] <directhex> hangs for ages then spits out an error "MAPI_E_NETWORK_ERROR"
[15:14] <ogra> mdz, while your hint was helpful .... ogra@antimony:~$ ls -l iso/ubuntu
[15:14] <ogra> lrwxrwxrwx 1 ogra warthogs 1 2009-03-24 12:53 iso/ubuntu -> .
[15:14] <directhex> when trying to add the account
[15:14] <ogra> thats why it died
[15:15] <mdz> that would do it too
[15:15] <seb128> hum
[15:16] <cjwatson> ogra: what's wrong with that?
[15:17] <ogra> cjwatson, vfat isnt actually symlink friendly but mcopy follows them ...
[15:17] <cjwatson> ah
[15:17] <ogra> so that like copies the content over and over until my image is full
[15:17] <ogra> s/like/link/
[15:21] <directhex> i might be misunderstanding how to use it, but it definitely just hangs here
[15:25] <seb128> directhex: open an upstream bug?
[15:41] <Unggnu> Btw. is it final that the 2.6.28 ath5k driver stays in Jaunty? It seem to have many problems.
[15:48] <Unggnu> They are fixed with the backport modules package or by using 2.6.29 but Jaunty isn't even released so a patch might be appropriate.
[15:54] <pitti> tseliot: thanks for the patch in bug 320632; did you get any feedback on it?
[15:54] <tseliot> pitti: no, maybe I should package it and make it available in my PPA, otherwise people won't test it
[15:55] <pitti> tseliot: that would be nice; please also consider mailing u-devel@ for a call for testing, since it becomes a bit pressing now, time-wise
[15:55] <tseliot> pitti: ok
[16:10] <kagou> cjwatson, indeed :) -> <cjwatson> 14:43:43> +kagou: 9/10 might be something to do with the locale not being set yet
[16:16] <ni|> hey, whats the remote desktop system in jackalope
[16:16] <ni|> VNC?
[16:18] <maco> think so
[16:20] <BUGabundo> vino ?
[16:20] <ogra> ltsp !
[16:20] <ogra> (ok, not really :) )
[16:21] <BUGabundo> I have set my own ltsp system one day
[16:21] <kees> Unggnu: some of your questions are addressed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ
[16:21] <BUGabundo> last time I tried it, it was a fuss... to much work to put it running
[16:21] <ogra> nice
[16:21] <ogra> when did you try it last time ?
[16:21] <BUGabundo> the best of Edubuntu got lost
[16:21] <BUGabundo> 1y ago
[16:21] <BUGabundo> hardy I think
[16:21] <ogra> no, it didnt get lost
[16:22] <ogra> all ltsp bits moved 1:1 from edubuntu into ubuntu
[16:22] <BUGabundo> there should be a TaskSel for it
[16:22] <BUGabundo> making it stupid-easy
[16:22] <BUGabundo> one click, and you are done
[16:22] <ogra> no, it needs special treatment, there is a udeb for it
[16:22] <ogra> right
[16:22] <BUGabundo> with just a question or two
[16:22] <ogra> use the laternate CD and use the F4 menu to select "install ltsp server"
[16:22] <BUGabundo> 1) Is this server or client
[16:23] <ogra> and it asks no questions at all
[16:23] <BUGabundo> 2) where to connect
[16:23] <BUGabundo> ahh nice
[16:23] <ogra> 1 is irrelevant
[16:23] <BUGabundo> didn't know that
[16:23] <Unggnu> kees: thx
[16:23] <ogra> clients netboot from the server
[16:23] <BUGabundo> time to set up 3 more VMs
[16:23] <slangasek> mdke: I'm on it
[16:23] <ogra> BUGabundo, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
[16:24] <BUGabundo> I already have a DHCP in the network... gonna need to hack it to set the TFTP
[16:24] <slangasek> pitti: having the relevant gnome-user-guide-* versions back on the CD isn't a terrible loss, it won't cost us more than a couple meg anyway :)
[16:24]  * BUGabundo rumbels something about ISA server
[16:24] <BUGabundo> ogra: thanks for the link
[16:24] <pitti> slangasek: you say that so light-heartedly..
[16:24] <slangasek> pitti: easy come easy go!
[16:24] <pitti> heh
[16:24] <ogra> BUGabundo, more background info on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
[16:28] <BUGabundo> do we have rsync running as a service now?
[16:29] <BUGabundo> a user said it came with ubutnu-standard seed
[16:29] <BUGabundo> and was running as service
[16:30] <mdke> slangasek: thanks a lot
[16:31] <ogra> BUGabundo, the initscript is there since forever, but its a no-op since forever as well
[16:31] <BUGabundo> ok
[16:31] <tseliot> cjwatson: are @canonical.com addresses whitelisted in ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com ?
[16:32] <BUGabundo> ogra: its just that the insists its running on is system
[16:32] <dholbach> tseliot: nope
[16:32] <dholbach> tseliot: just ~ubuntu-dev people AFAIK
[16:32] <tseliot> dholbach: ok, I'll keep using my old address then. Thanks for your reply
[16:32] <kees> cjwatson: do you feel that this section correctly captures your feelings on the subject? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Permissive%20Home%20Directory%20Permissions
[16:32] <ogra> BUGabundo, well, its initscript is started but doesnt run any process
[16:33] <kees> (we wrote it during the Sprint because, well, it was a f.a.q.)
[16:35] <cjwatson> tseliot: not in general; some are
[16:35] <cjwatson> tseliot: Ubuntu developers are whitelisted, and there's a fairly lengthy manual list as well
[16:36] <cjwatson> I don't think it's appropriate to have a blanket whitelist for @canonical.com personally
[16:36] <cjwatson> kees: yes, thanks - I looked for that but obviously missed it
[16:37] <tseliot> cjwatson: ok, thanks for your answer
[16:37] <kees> cjwatson: well, it wasn't in the FAQ until about 3 minutes ago -- it was on another page, but it belongs there.  (I added the bug link just now too)
[16:38] <cjwatson> kees: ah, heh
[16:38] <pitti> kees: hm, Private/ doesn't exist by default, only with ecryptfs
[16:39] <mathiaz> sbeattie: how well does apport support disconnect mode (ie the system doesn't have a network connection to lp)?
[16:39] <ka6sox-work> cjwatson, I spoke with davidm @ SCALE about the potential for leaving update-manager-core as the only thing in a unsupported distro (ie edgy, feisty) so that you don't have to manually upgrade 2-3 revisions to use do-upgrade.
[16:39] <kees> pitti: oh? I thought it was part of the xdg-whatever package that creates Music, Pictures, etc?
[16:40] <kees> xdg-user-dirs ?
[16:40] <pitti> not that I know of
[16:40] <cjwatson> ka6sox-work: I'm not sure that's actually possible; doesn't update-manager know how to switch to old-releases?
[16:40] <pitti> kees: I just know it in the context of ecryptfs
[16:40] <sbeattie> mathiaz: let me verify, but I *think* it lets you save the report to file later/from a different location.
[16:40] <cjwatson> ka6sox-work: anyway, update-manager is mvo's business
[16:40] <kees> pitti: well, for ecryptfs, it's considered "Encrypted Private"
[16:40] <cjwatson> kees: it's ecryptfs-only, as pitti says
[16:41] <pitti> kees: right, so I don't think this FAQ and Private/ have anything to do with each other
[16:41] <kees> cjwatson, pitti: yup, you are absolutely right.
[16:41] <ka6sox-work> okay thanks..I'll wait around for mvo.
[16:41] <mathiaz> sbeattie: this is my main concern to installing apport by default on ubuntu-server
[16:41] <pitti> kees: perhaps just point out to make files/dirs 700?
[16:41] <cjwatson> but of course you can always create one
[16:41] <mathiaz> sbeattie: another minor concern is that it bloats the default installation
[16:41] <kees> I would really like to see Private in xdg-user-dirs.  dang, I thought that's where it ended up.
[16:43] <kees> FAQ adjusted
[16:43] <seb128> kees: xdg-user-dirs and xdg-user-dirs-gtk handle those special directories
[16:44] <mvo> ka6sox-work: update-manager needs backports for the code that switches to old-releases. that is currently not done because of time constrains :/
[16:44] <sistpoty|work> scott_ev: please don't change the status of FFe bugs (bugs where motu-release is subscribed). we (motu-release) use "confirmed" to denote that a freeze exception is granted. Thanks
[16:45] <kees> seb128: yeah, just found it.  I've opened bug 353231 for it.
[16:46] <seb128> kees: nobody is working on it so the bug is likely going to stay there is you don't write the patch yourself for it ;-)
[16:47] <mathiaz> sbeattie: IMO the major use case for apport on server is that ubuntu-bug will be run on a sysadmin workstation to report a bug that happened on another server system.
[16:47] <mathiaz> sbeattie: does apport support this use case?
[16:48] <kees> seb128: right, I just wanted to get it filed.
[16:48] <sbeattie> mathiaz: it's supposed to, but saving the report isn't working for me for some reason.
[16:48] <freinhard> ArneGoetje, cjwatson: nice, gnome-user-guide just got uninstalled! don't know who exactly fixed it: thx!
[16:51] <pitti> seb128: ok, instead of crashing with KeyError, apport-retrace now DTRT (see bug 349833)
[16:52] <seb128> pitti: you rock!
[16:53] <pitti> apw: do you have any preference wrt. the tag alternatives in bug 349621?
[16:53] <pitti> apw: for backwards compatible LP search I'm inclined to keep apport-kerneloops for real oopses at least
[16:54] <slangasek> mdke: gnome-user-docs fix uploading, new merge proposal sent
[16:54] <apw> pitti, a tricky one, hard to be compatible with both searches
[16:54] <apw> breaking mine is the newer one
[16:54] <pitti> apw: the second option wouldn't break either
[16:55] <ArneGoetje> freinhard: pitti did.
[16:55] <pitti> apw: AFAIUI, it would just add "panic-oops" tag to real oopses
[16:55] <mdke> slangasek: thanks very much.
[16:55] <mdke> how long does it take for a binary to appear on LP or in the archive after a build finishes?
[16:56] <pitti> apw: i. e apport-kerneloops would be the general class (which should ideally be called "apport-kernel"), and "panic-oops" vs. "resume" tell you the subclass
[16:56] <pitti> mdke: short answer: two to three hours
[16:56] <freinhard> pitti: you're the man! :D
[16:56] <apw> yeah if you are happy it works ok for me
[16:56] <apw> pitti, if we later sanitise them, they can do a DB update for change them
[16:56] <pitti> apw: I don't mind either way, just trying to think about what existing searches folks use
[16:57] <mdke> pitti: whoosh, that's a long time
[16:57] <apw> yeah i concor on them
[16:57] <pitti> freinhard: not sure what it's about, but if you mean gnome-user-guide-*, well, I broke it, I fix it :)
[16:58] <pitti> apw: do you happen to have a real kerneloops bug?
[16:59] <pitti> apw: or, can you confirm that a kernel oops really calls /usr/share/apport/kernel_oops ?
[16:59] <pitti> (as opposed to creating a .crash file all by itself in some way)
[17:00] <apw> pitti, there is a real way to trigger one, which works all the way to kerneloops and gets hidden automatically
[17:00] <apw> lieb, can you point pitti to the crasher tester thing
[17:00] <pitti> apw: ah, I know about that one
[17:00] <pitti> I was just lazy
[17:00]  * pitti RTFS
[17:01]  * apw is lazy too
[17:01]  * maco wishes kernel panics generated .crash's too
[17:02] <pitti> apw: got it, bug 286389 is one
[17:02] <pitti> maco: they do if you have kerneloops installed
[17:02] <sbeattie> pitti: is apport-cli/ubuntu-bug's "keep report for later" option unimplemented? I always get "Problem report file: None" when I try to keep a report for later.
[17:02] <maco> pitti: only some of the types of panics i get do
[17:03] <maco> the ones where it just spins up the cpu and stops responding to input (including magic sysrq)...nothing for those
[17:03] <maco> and the last one that included flashing caps didnt either. but some have in the past.
[17:03] <TheMuso> cjwatson: You don'tneed to tell me that. :) In my panic it was the first thing I thought of, and I was reminded of such a solution afterwards. :S
[17:05] <pitti> apw: should the tag really be called "panic-oops", given that many oopses aren't panic?
[17:06] <pitti> apw: there are already 55 bugs tagged "kernel-oops", should it rather use that one?
[17:06] <apw> that would be more sensible yes
[17:06] <pitti> sbeattie: sorry, which option?
[17:07] <sbeattie> selecting K for keep report for later when using apport-cli
[17:07] <pitti> sbeattie: ah, I see; it's meant to work, mind filing a bug about it?
[17:07] <sbeattie> pitti: will do, thanks!
[17:09] <cjwatson> TheMuso: *nod*
[17:10]  * ogra wonders if anyone from ubuntu-mir could finally approve redboot-imx and redboot-tools
[17:10] <ogra> the latter will break flash-kernel and armel imx51 installs if its not in main soon
[17:13] <broonie> OOI are you guys working on pushing the i.MX kernel towards mainline or are you carrying the diff?
[17:13] <ogra> its going into mainline
[17:13] <amitk> broonie: I am breaking it into tiny bits for mainline
[17:14] <kees> ogra, NCommander: RedBoot-imx> this needed in main because it will appear on a liveCD?  or is it only used to *create* the liveCD?
[17:14] <ogra> the latter
[17:15] <NCommander> the later
[17:15] <kees> in that last, does it need to be in main?
[17:15] <NCommander> oh, ogra beat me to it
[17:15] <ogra> in karmic we'll provide something like grub-install for it
[17:15] <ogra> would be good to have it in main, makes it easier to install it on the cd creation machines
[17:15] <broonie> amitk: Oh, wow - excellent news.
[17:16] <broonie> amitk: Any audio stuff coming?
[17:16] <ogra> kees, else the image creation script needs to hack around that and i'll make cjwatson unhappy with my weird script hacks
[17:16] <kees> my knowledge is a bit thin in this area.  :)
[17:16] <kees> I thought we could create images when things are in universe now?
[17:17] <ogra> kees, for official images all packages going on these images need to be in main
[17:17] <amitk> broonie: thats upto freescale mostly
[17:17] <kees> ah-ha
[17:17] <broonie> amitk: Ah, so unlikely to happen then.
[17:17] <ogra> for unofficial ones universe can be used
[17:17] <ogra> imx51/babbage has to be official
[17:17] <kees> cjwatson: do you think we should add "official image support" to the Rationale list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements ?
[17:17] <Superdweeb> hi guiz, is mark shuttleworth in the room?
[17:18] <Superdweeb> awake, possibly?
[17:18] <sbeattie> pitti: bug 353253
[17:19] <cjwatson> kees: wouldn't hurt; I think it morally comes under build-dependency [of our CD images]
[17:19] <cjwatson> Superdweeb: he's a busy man. What do you want?
[17:19] <Superdweeb> I want something really easy to handle and simple to fix.
[17:19] <Superdweeb> I mean I want it fixed.
[17:19] <Superdweeb> It wont take a moment to give the order.
[17:20] <ogra> and you think mark can fix it for you ?
[17:20] <Superdweeb> I think he would and can give the order to have it done by release.
[17:20] <kees> cjwatson: is some person/group in charge of the MIR requirements list besides the MIR team?
[17:20] <kees> I just want to clarify the language
[17:20] <cjwatson> kees: go ahead and edit it
[17:20] <kees> cool
[17:21] <cjwatson> Superdweeb: do you often find that the CEO of anything other than a tiny company takes all the decisions himself?
[17:22] <Superdweeb> I think this decision would be a simple one to make and, rationally, a clean, unobscured ripple.
[17:22] <Superdweeb> It would make about as much sense as the cool new notification system.
[17:22] <Superdweeb> Which was on his blog.
[17:23] <cjwatson> yes, Mark takes a personal interest in desktop experience, but in general the way to request changes is not to contact the founder of Ubuntu, but to file a bug
[17:23] <Superdweeb> I'm not going to file a bug about this, because it's been around since the very beginning of ubuntu, and it's so trivial, everyone has overlooked it.
[17:23] <Superdweeb> But it's also very important.
[17:23] <cjwatson> and the way to escalate problems goes through developers with an interest in the package, through the team with a general responsibility for the package, to the technical board
[17:23] <cjwatson> it does not involve everyone contacting Mark directly, since that wouldn't scale
[17:24] <Superdweeb> I'm told by the responsible developers, erm, artists, that this is in the hands of upstream gnome.
[17:24] <Superdweeb> I'd like to shoot upstream gnome, take it out of their hands, and have this dealt with.
[17:24] <cjwatson> your attitude is not appropriate, so I'm not surprised you aren't getting traction
[17:24] <Superdweeb> I promise, this is such a SIMPLE problem nobody wants to have anything to do with it.
[17:24] <jameswf> can the 9.04 login screen look like http://www.live.com/
[17:24] <cjwatson> please follow the code of conduct and deal respectfully with other developers, including those in GNOME
[17:24] <Chipzz> or you could just request ubuntu to patch it, and leave upstream out of it?
[17:25] <Superdweeb> Yes.
[17:25] <Superdweeb> I just want to patch it here.
[17:25] <cjwatson> what IS the problem?
[17:25] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: what do you want to patch?
[17:25] <Superdweeb> Gnome-panel handles.
[17:25] <Superdweeb> Resize your panel.
[17:25] <Chipzz> then what's with the shooting of upstream? been playing too much CS? :)
[17:25] <Superdweeb> Now make it transparent.
[17:26] <Superdweeb> IT's super dooper how much you guys have put into this, the entire notification area handles transparency perfectly.
[17:26] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: I believe there's already a bug about that one upstream
[17:26] <Superdweeb> well, it needs to be stopped. this is ugly. it dates back to the neo-lithic era of gtk 1.0.
[17:26] <cjwatson> it's not in general economic for us to patch *everything* in Ubuntu, unless it's actually important to us
[17:26] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: do you have a patch for it?
[17:26] <Superdweeb> I'm just an idiot.
[17:27] <Superdweeb> DO you think I have access to the gnome sources?
[17:27] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: yes, everyone does
[17:27] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/
[17:28] <Superdweeb> I'm just a user who happens to be a geek who knows enough about ubuntu to hack a bit on getting all his family applications working on wine. I have been taking college programming, but what they have taught me so far is mostly VB and cobol. I'm hoping to move to a larger college and learn something useful like C, but very simply..
[17:28] <Superdweeb> I asked you to handle this.
[17:28] <Superdweeb> Just like everyone else, you are telling me to do it myself.
[17:28] <Superdweeb> This is GTK 1.0.
[17:28] <Superdweeb> In an interface where ALL windows have rounded corners.
[17:29] <Superdweeb> Where we have so many brilliant edits to the appearance.
[17:29] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: no, I was just asking you whether you had a patch for it
[17:29] <Keybuk> maybe you've seen one elsewhere?
[17:29] <Superdweeb> Never.
[17:29] <Keybuk> or if you've talked to other people, they've pointed you at one
[17:29] <Superdweeb> I was told to edit the gtkrc file in a theme, but I never got anywhere.
[17:29] <Keybuk> if you could file a bug in Launchpad, that would be appreciated
[17:30]  * ogra starts to develop a passionate hate for jauntys constant crashyness
[17:30] <Keybuk> it may be that it's fixed by replacing the GNOME panel
[17:30] <Superdweeb> I will file 500 bugs.
[17:30] <Keybuk> since that seems to be the general plan
[17:30] <Keybuk> Superdweeb: just one will do
[17:30] <Superdweeb> I'm scared keybuk.
[17:30] <Superdweeb> They say they are replacing the gnome interface with something totally new.
[17:30] <Keybuk> in fact
[17:30] <Keybuk> there's already a bug
[17:30] <Keybuk> bug #46659
[17:30] <Chipzz> but anyway
[17:31] <Keybuk> if you subscribe to that, you'll be notified of any work in this area
[17:31] <Chipzz> wouldn't #dx be more appropriate?
[17:31] <Superdweeb> I'll be notified.
[17:31] <Superdweeb> The bug was filed 3 years ago.
[17:31] <Superdweeb> Still hasn't been dealt with.
[17:31] <Chipzz> write a patch? :)
[17:31] <Superdweeb> This is jaunty now, we have SUPERNESS in our distro.
[17:32] <azeem> or pay somebody to write a patch
[17:32] <Superdweeb> I'll pay you $10 US.
[17:32] <Superdweeb> paypal.
[17:32] <Superdweeb> right now,
[17:32] <Superdweeb> What do you say?
[17:32] <Chipzz> I'ld say you're a cheapskate ;)
[17:32] <Chipzz> $10 is about 1h of work
[17:33] <Chipzz> less
[17:33] <Superdweeb> I'd up it to 20 but my monthly allowance for food is 50.
[17:33] <Chipzz> writing it, submitting it, getting it integrated would take way longer than 1h
[17:33] <Superdweeb> I was payed 20 dollars this week by a client, erm, a friend, who asked me to fix her computer.
[17:33] <Superdweeb> I installed spybot s and d, firefox, and handed her an 8.10 disk and asked her to take a look at it sometime.
[17:34] <azeem> Superdweeb: that's off-topic here
[17:34] <Superdweeb> IT is?
[17:34] <Superdweeb> I contributed time and effort to your cause, my cause, our cause.
[17:34] <Chipzz> Superdweeb: azeem has other duties he has to attend to
[17:35] <Superdweeb> super.
[17:35] <Chipzz> and as a matter of fact, so do I :) which I'm going to do
[17:35] <Superdweeb> Are you absolutely sure mark can't schedule me in for a few minutes sometime?
[17:35] <Chipzz> yes
[17:36] <Superdweeb> by appointment, even?
[17:36] <Chipzz> this was explained quite clearly to you above
[17:36] <Chipzz> surely you read that?
[17:36] <Superdweeb> It was explained that he was a busy man.
[17:37] <kees> Superdweeb: the best place to get leverage would be here: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
[17:37] <azeem> euh
[17:37] <Superdweeb> Your pointing me upstream again.
[17:37] <Superdweeb> Lets not go there.
[17:37] <Superdweeb> But sure.
[17:37] <Superdweeb> I'll email them right now.
[17:38] <ogra> kees, thanks a lot for the two approvals ... the mobile team will pay you a beer from the team cash at UDS :)
[17:38] <kees> \o/
[17:38] <Chipzz> Superdweeb: also, like I said, the best place to discuss this is #dx (desktop experience)
[17:38] <Chipzz> please take the discussion there
[17:39] <Superdweeb> Is that an ubuntu-specific channel?
[17:39] <Chipzz> not entirely sure but I think it is
[17:39] <pitti> sbeattie: thank
[17:39] <Superdweeb> I see kenvandine there, didn't he part foresight for ubuntu?
[17:39] <Superdweeb> I'll go there
[17:40] <Superdweeb> bye for now, I will be back, better get to work on my patch, you bunch of dammed code monkies.
[17:41] <pitti> bdmurray: oh, congratulations to your new MOTU badge!
[17:41] <TheMuso> bdmurray: Yeah congrats!
[17:42] <bdmurray> pitti, TheMuso: Thanks!
[17:47] <apachelogger> could someone please take a look at bug 330419 and tell me if kwin is supposed to send some signal to get gnome to draw the desktops?
[17:47] <mdke> Keybuk: double bluff april fool, nice one. That had me going
[17:48] <superm1> asac, ping.  i wanted to ask about that dnsmasq-base bug for NM.  it got triaged a while back, but not with a definitive plan as I can tell. is there a particular reason to not add it as recommends?
[17:49] <asac> superm1: its not a recommends ?
[17:49] <nixternal> hahahaha Keybuk!!!!
[17:49] <superm1> asac, well it's not in the default install from a recent live disk, so I'd suppose it's not still
[17:49] <asac> yeah should be added
[17:50] <mathiaz> Is a third-party package that installs most of its files in /opt allowed to put files in /usr/sbin (for example) too?
[17:50] <asac> superm1: does dnsmasq-base ship this ugly resolvconf stuff?
[17:50] <superm1> asac, I don't think so. all I see is a /usr/sbin/dnsmasq binary in the package
[17:51] <asac> superm1: nah. what i mean, does it depend on resolvconf and then replace resolv.conf with "127.0.0.1"? or is that just dnsmasq (main) package?
[17:51] <superm1> asac, oh no it doesn't.  i just installed it on afresh install, it has no additional dependencies
[17:51] <superm1> so resolvconf doesn't come in
[17:52] <asac> superm1: good. then i will add that now to recommends
[17:52] <superm1> asac, and it's still using my standard name servers in /etc/resolv.conf
[17:52] <superm1> asac, great thanks.  will finally be able to do connection sharing out of the box then :)
[17:52] <asac> good thanks for checking the resolvconf thing
[17:53] <asac> superm1: committed. rev 37
[17:53] <asac> next update will get this
[17:54] <asac> superm1: did we hav a bug id for that?
[17:54] <superm1> asac, yeah we did. let me see if i can find it
[17:55] <superm1> bug 269963
[17:55] <lool> cjwatson: Hi, I'm on a show today; just got network now and can't stay much longer, is there anything you'd need me to look at now?
[17:56] <lool> slangasek: No idea about texlive-bin
[17:56] <lool> NCommander: Could you please try building texlive-bin with the current gcc to check whether the g++-4.2 is still needed?
[17:56]  * ogra wonders why slangasek specifically asked us
[17:57] <NCommander> lool, on which architecture?
[17:57] <lool> ogra: Probably an armel change?
[17:57] <cjwatson> lool: ... sorry, lost context. About what?
[17:57] <lool>   * use gcc/g++-4.2 on armel to fix FTBFS (closes: #483939) (thanks Adeodato)
[17:57] <lool>  -- Norbert Preining <preining@debian.org>  Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:29:49 +0200
[17:57] <lool> texlive-bin (2007.dfsg.1-4) unstable; urgency=low
[17:57] <NCommander> ah, fair enough
[17:57] <lool> cjwatson: In general, anything :)
[17:58] <lool> cjwatson:  micro-evtd-udeb?
[17:58] <lool> No idea about this
[17:59] <cjwatson> oh, well, somebody needs to sort that out yes
[18:03] <NCommander> lool, do you want me to attempt to fix the build with 4.3 if it fails?
[18:04] <lool> NCommander: Happy to yes
[18:04] <calc> nice rsync'ing a i386 cd from an amd64 cd had a 1.81 speedup :)
[18:04] <lool> cjwatson: ah it needs to be promoted
[18:04] <lool> NCommander: Do you think you could write a MIR for micro-evtd-udeb??
[18:04] <lool> s/??/?
[18:05] <NCommander> I did
[18:05] <NCommander> Ages ago...
[18:05] <NCommander> lool, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportMicroEvtd
[18:05] <NCommander> wait
[18:05] <NCommander> you did, I just bookmarked it
[18:06] <NCommander> actually, we both did looking at the history page ...
[18:07] <lool> NCommander: is there a bug?
[18:07] <lool> I don't recall writing it, can't believe it
[18:08] <NCommander> lool, I wrote it, you revised it according to the history
[18:08] <NCommander> (you did the source code review)
[18:08] <lool> Right
[18:08] <lool> NCommander: Could you bug that please?
[18:08] <NCommander> I don't think its going to pass a MIR with a security issue ...
[18:09] <lool> Just so that I think of looking at it tomorrow, don't have much time here, and it will take me a couple of hours to go home; it's already 7pm
[18:09] <NCommander> fair enough.
[18:59] <mvo> doko: if you could have a look at bug #353251 that would be appreciated
[19:14] <mbana> how do i reset the sound preferences page to default, as in, system->prefs->sound (on ubuntu)
[19:16] <Keybuk> tests/type_wrapper.c:449: error: assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast
[19:16] <Keybuk> *sigh* there's nothing worse than errors in auto-generated code
[19:16] <Keybuk> the damned C file VANISHES once make has done with it
[19:16] <cjwatson> they're great, you can fix thousands of them at once
[19:17] <cjwatson> Keybuk: mark them .SECONDARY?
[19:17] <Keybuk> cjwatson: in this case, it's more of a general annoyance
[19:17] <Keybuk> though I have briefly thought of doing the __LINE__ trick
[20:12] <NCommander> slangasek, texlive ICEs with GCC 4.2 :-/
[20:12] <NCommander> er
[20:12] <NCommander> 4.3
[20:19] <calc> pitti: does bug 348667 just need to be kicked to be retraced again?
[20:37] <mvo> Riddell, scottk: i suspect the missing qt.so link is due to bug #353251
[20:38] <Bluehorn> hey everybody
[20:39] <Bluehorn> Perhaps somebody here can help me: I want to update the packaging of my Debian ddclient package.
[20:39] <Bluehorn> And I'd like to have it in bzr.
[20:40] <maxb> Bluehorn: Hi! General packaging help and discussion of Ubuntu universe packages is more on topic in #ubuntu-motu
[20:40] <Bluehorn> Now I am wondering if the tool generating package-import.ubuntu.com is available somewhere.
[20:41] <Bluehorn> maxb: That's a misunderstanding, I do not need help with the packaging itself. I just want to use bzr as the VCS and have no idea how to import my history into it.
[20:41] <maxb> Ah
[20:41] <maxb> I don't know what drives package-import.u.c, but have you seen bzr-builddeb's import-dsc command?
[20:42] <Bluehorn> ah
[20:42] <Bluehorn> maxb: just found it on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DistributedDevelopment/Specification
[20:44] <Bluehorn> maxb: thanks for the pointer!
[20:52]  * NCommander thinks shadow's manpage reads like a legal document
[20:59] <seb128> slangasek: GNOME 2.16.1 will have a standing freeze exception right?
[21:00] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: yay... gnome 2.16.1 was a great version :)
[21:00] <seb128> 2.26.1
[21:14] <maxb> Hi, bzr 1.13.1 is in unstable. should I file a new sync request / FFe, or take over bug 341501 which is about 1.13rc1 but never got closed?
[21:22] <slangasek> seb128: yes
[21:22] <seb128> slangasek: tarball will be available after the rc freeze that's no issue? just making sure ;-)
[21:23] <slangasek> seb128: hmm, eew :(  none of them are available until that week?
[21:23] <seb128> slangasek: no, they are due on monday 13 april
[21:24] <seb128> usually GNOME roll on their tarball on the due day
[21:24] <seb128> if we want to lower changes I can snapshot the svn for the few components which got quite some commits
[21:25] <seb128> so we have easier review after the freeze
[21:25] <slangasek> I'm mostly concerned about having the buildds be that busy right before RC
[21:25] <seb128> slangasek: I don't expect they will roll tarballs for everything so we should have the updates in jaunty on monday evening
[21:26] <slangasek> wok
[21:26] <slangasek> ok
[21:46] <NCommander> cjwatson, I've been working on debugging #349504 since I worked out what was causing the issue , and I was curious if you'd be interesting in sponsoring the fix-it upload
[21:50]  * NCommander pokes the bot
[21:50] <cjwatson> NCommander: I'm happy to review a patch. (And for the record I knew the problem was in useradd not adduser, that's why I asked ogra to file the bug on shadow ;-) )
[21:51] <cjwatson> NCommander: I'm not sure I wouldn't be more comfortable with useradd setting it to 1 rather than 0 at this point, though. Do we *know* that everything handles an empty sp_lstchg right?
[21:51] <NCommander> cjwatson, er, its not setting it to one
[21:51] <NCommander> cjwatson, its leaving the field blank
[21:52] <NCommander> Which is what it should do if there is no exp
[21:52] <cjwatson> that's what you're suggesting it should do, yes
[21:52]  * NCommander traced this through libshadow
[21:52] <NCommander> Oh
[21:52] <NCommander> sorry, misread
[21:52] <NCommander> (long day)
[21:52] <cjwatson> I'm suggesting that maybe spotting current-time==0 and special-casing that to 1 would be safer
[21:52] <cjwatson> anyway, it's the end of my day, happy to look at it tomorrow
[21:53] <NCommander> We could put in a special usecase where if both expiration date, and last password equal zero, it will ignore the reset
[21:53] <NCommander> That being said, any app working through libshadow works correctly
[21:53] <cjwatson> unlike, for example, pam? :-)
[21:54] <NCommander> cjwatson, I tested it on real hardware without any issues
[21:54] <cjwatson> the common interface to the shadow file is not libshadow, but getspent and friends in libc (and that doesn't really define semantics, just syntax)
[21:54] <NCommander> But I see your point.
[21:54] <cjwatson> NCommander: I understand, but I am trying to ensure that we don't run into problems with things that you didn't think to test
[21:54] <cjwatson> anyway; will review patch tomorrow if you post it
[21:54] <NCommander> So its do the right solution which might break broken implementations, or the wrong solution which makes the possibly broken one work
[21:54] <NCommander> :-/
[21:55] <cjwatson> pretending that time cannot be any less than 1 day post-epoch is hardly all that wrong
[21:55] <cjwatson> anyway, I haven't checked whether empty sp_lstchg is safe, that's all
[21:55] <cjwatson> post the patch you have and we can talk about it based on that
[21:56] <NCommander> cjwatson, I'm waiting for my build to finish, but I can also cook a solution to libshadow just as easily
[22:56] <LordMetroid> Anyone got an idea on how hard it would be to make S-video automount?
[23:02] <slangasek> what do you mean, "automount"?
[23:02] <slangasek> mounting is something you do with disks, not video
[23:12] <LordMetroid> yes, I mean work automatically when you plug the s-video cable in
[23:12] <directhex> that's driver-dependent
[23:13] <bluszcz> hi
[23:14] <bluszcz> i am trying to find policy about truetype packaging, but there is no word about it: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.8.5 - is there any ubuntu specific document?
[23:15] <bluszcz> i also found something like this:
[23:15] <bluszcz> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-x@lists.debian.org/msg04524.html
[23:15] <bluszcz> ;)
[23:16] <slangasek> hrm, didn't you ask this same question a couple days ago?
[23:17] <bluszcz> i asked about fonts generally, AFAIR
[23:17] <bluszcz> but it is possible, that i am wrong ;)
[23:17] <bluszcz> anyway - i tried today another with ttf and failed
[23:17] <bluszcz> i can debug actual packages, butt...
[23:17] <bluszcz> http://www.archivum.info/debian-policy@lists.debian.org/2008-07/msg00206.html
[23:18] <slangasek> well, the policy is "install your fonts in a per-package directory under /usr/share/fonts/truetype"
[23:19] <bluszcz> and what should be run after it?
[23:20] <bluszcz> take a look:
[23:20] <bluszcz> http://pastebin.com/m269a659b
[23:20] <slangasek> that part is less clear than it should be :/
[23:21] <bluszcz> sorry, but where did you found "install your fonts in a per-package directory under /usr/share/fonts/truetype" phrase?
[23:21] <slangasek> when I say that it's the "policy", I mean it's what everyone does
[23:21] <slangasek> it's not written in policy, which as Russ says in the link you posted, is a bug
[23:23] <bluszcz> ok
[23:23] <bluszcz> i think i had to submit a bug
[23:24] <bluszcz> in launchpad
[23:25] <bluszcz> Launchpad is offline for scheduled maintenance. We should be back soon.
[23:25] <bluszcz> gods left me off.
[23:26] <maxb> james_w: Hi, are you around? I wanted to ask whether bug 341501 (https://staging.launchpad.net/bugs/341501/) still being open means you have an eye on the bzr 1.13.1 sync needed, or if another bug should be filed?
[23:26] <maxb> huh, how did ubottu manage that
[23:26] <slangasek> bluszcz: this isn't something that's a good candidate for a bug report; it's a policy discussion
[23:27] <bluszcz> slangasek: lack of documentation is a bug
[23:27] <slangasek> bluszcz: my first choice would be to see this resolved in Debian where it can find its way down into Ubuntu automatically; otherwise, I think it ought to be a blueprint
[23:27] <bluszcz> hm
[23:27] <bluszcz> i found good template
[23:28] <bluszcz> package is called ttf-engadget
[23:28] <bluszcz> very simple
[23:28] <slangasek> of course it's a bug.  It's just not useful to handle a policy bug in the LP bug tracker, because you won't get the right set of people considering it
[23:28] <bluszcz> ok
[23:28] <bluszcz> very clear debian/rules :)
[23:28] <james_w> maxb: they should probably be closed now. Thanks for the reminder about the sync though. Are you interested in working on it?
[23:31] <LordMetroid> directhex, even though it is driver dependant, it should be possible right?
[23:31] <bdmurray> sparc is a port now right?
[23:31] <bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Architectures
[23:32] <LordMetroid> directhex, at least some kind of configuration GUI would ease the utilisation of S-video
[23:35] <slangasek> bdmurray: yes
[23:36] <maxb> james_w: Well, I haven't tested it *yet*, but I'm interested enough to look into it if it turns out to actually require any work.
[23:36] <maxb> OK, I will close that bug when LP comes back up and file a suitable new one.
[23:36] <slangasek> LordMetroid: for drivers supporting xrandr, that should already be handled through System -> Preferences -> Display, I think?  But I'm not sure whether that works to make it persistent across sessions
[23:36] <LordMetroid> xrandr just tells me off when I try to run it
[23:36] <seb128> slangasek: display changes are written on the disk and loaded at login
[23:37] <slangasek> bluszcz: ttf-engadget doesn't look like a very good template to me; the fonts are registered with neither defoma or fontconfig
[23:38] <slangasek> LordMetroid: well, what video driver do you have and what's the process for getting S-Video configured on your system *non*-automatically?
[23:38] <LordMetroid> I got some older ati card
[23:38] <LordMetroid> Dunno what it is
[23:38] <LordMetroid> nor do I know what driver it is, I have no idea about how to get s-video running
[23:39] <james_w> maxb: thanks. It should be quite straightforward, let me know if you hit any trouble
[23:39] <LordMetroid> And I am an experienced programmer, normal common Joe would have no chance in hell to get their S-video running
[23:39] <LordMetroid> It needs to be remedied
[23:40] <slangasek> LordMetroid: ok, that's a much larger problem than "getting it working automatically", then; for all I know, that means the S-Video output isn't supported by the driver...
[23:40] <bluszcz> slangasek: #
[23:40] <bluszcz> dh_installtex - register Type 1 fonts, languages, or formats with TeX
[23:40] <bluszcz> #
[23:40] <bluszcz> dh_installxfonts - register X fonts
[23:41] <slangasek> LordMetroid: but you should probably talk to folks in #ubuntu-x
[23:41] <bluszcz> only these two helpers...
[23:41] <bluszcz> none of found examples use it ;)
[23:43] <slangasek> bluszcz: neither of those are relevant; you would want dh_installdefoma, and also something that registers with fontconfig, but I don't see a helper for that