[15:57]  * robbiew waves
[15:58]  * slangasek waves
[15:58]  * robbiew is tired of wrestling bug 345714 
[15:59] <robbiew> who needs virt terms anyways :P
[15:59]  * mvo is here
[16:00] <Keybuk> _o/
[16:00] <cjwatson> here
[16:00] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01]  * robbiew didn't create an agenda due to wasting too much time debugging bug 345714
[16:01] <robbiew> :/
[16:02] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Meeting time
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting time
[16:02] <robbiew> TheMuso proposes that we take advantage of the DST madness and move the meeting time
[16:02] <robbiew> curiously...TheMuso is not here :P
[16:04] <robbiew> we could perhaps move it later...but then I think we would hit the QA timeslot
[16:05] <robbiew> since no one seems to care...I'll talk it over with TheMuso and make a decision
[16:05] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Beta Bugs!!!!
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Beta Bugs!!!!
[16:05] <Keybuk> robbiew: I'd appreciate it if it wasn't too much later
[16:05] <cjwatson> much later is difficult for me on Wednesday, although one hour later is fine
[16:05] <mvo> robbiew: please make it not too late
[16:05] <robbiew> heh
[16:05] <cjwatson> I can do later but it would have to be other days
[16:06] <robbiew> understand
[16:06] <Keybuk> anything after 6pm london time is ... maritally difficult ? :)
[16:06] <robbiew> well...I suspect 2am is much more difficult...which is where it will be for TheMuso
[16:06] <robbiew> ;)
[16:07] <Keybuk> doesn't the whole thing get better for him with this DST shift?
[16:07] <Keybuk> we go +1, they go -1
[16:08] <cjwatson> depends whether he's getting up late or early
[16:08] <Keybuk> later just increasingly more am for him - so it'd need to be earlier?
[16:08] <robbiew> he wakes up early for the meeting
[16:08] <robbiew> so earlier is not necessarily better ;)
[16:08] <cjwatson> we've been on this meeting slot for a while, anyway; it wouldn't hurt to rotate
[16:08] <robbiew> I suppose we could make it a few hours earlier...but then slangasek feels the pain
[16:09] <cjwatson> I found out about doodle.com recently
[16:09] <slangasek> 6am, 8am, it's all pain
[16:09] <cjwatson> lets you hold a poll about comfortable event times and then see the best ones
[16:09] <slangasek> :)
[16:09] <robbiew> cjwatson: cool
[16:09] <robbiew> slangasek: heh
[16:09] <cjwatson> (the d-i team used this to plan meetings)
[16:10] <robbiew> I'll check it out, thnx
[16:10] <robbiew> so...anyone wrestling with nasty Beta bugs?
[16:11] <liw> I have a bunch of things in computer-janitor :(
[16:11] <Keybuk> the udev-inotify bugs seem to be settling down
[16:11] <robbiew> liw: mostly complaints about removing Skype
[16:11] <cjwatson> I've been beating on bug 347916 most of the day
[16:11] <robbiew> heh
[16:11] <Keybuk> there's an entertaining one, but nobody has reported it for Ubuntu yet
[16:12] <cjwatson> I'm confused about bug 349725, for much the same reason as slangasek
[16:12] <robbiew> cjwatson: ah...yeah, I ran into that on (347916)
[16:12]  * mvo is wrestling with a random apt-get hang and a update-manager-text crash and killed a bunch of python releated upgrade bugs the other day
[16:13] <slangasek> mvo: 349725 ^^ that one needs your input, if you hadn't seen yet
[16:13] <mvo> I have seen it, sorry that I have not answered
[16:13] <mvo> it bites people on intrepid->jaunty and I want something in update-manager to make sure people do not run into it
[16:13] <slangasek> ok
[16:13] <cjwatson> what more needs to be done with python? I saw several universe python2.6 changes in the sponsorship queue
[16:14] <cjwatson> and Keybuk reported a problem with 2.6 symlinks apparently not being put in place
[16:14] <mvo> I'm just not sure yet what the best course of action is (SRU for the fixes and focring them to be installed before the upgrade)
[16:14] <mvo> or life patching (the diff is just one line) when the upgrade starts
[16:15] <mvo> there is a open issue with a missing python-qt4-dbus link too, but I was not able to reproduce yet
[16:15] <cjwatson> an SRU would scare me less, I think
[16:15] <robbiew> the last comment in bug 349367 seems to indicate we should expect more python 2.6 related bugs
[16:16] <robbiew> bug 349467
[16:16] <mvo> we should also probably change python-central to actuallly fail to build if a python package  has synatax errors, currently it builds but then fails on the users install
[16:16] <Keybuk> cjwatson: you'll like the latest udev one - it's not about partitioning
[16:16] <Keybuk> hdparm opens block devices for writing; so hdparm -y (put the drive to sleep) results in a change event
[16:16] <robbiew> mvo: +1
[16:16] <cjwatson> Keybuk: makes a change
[16:16] <Keybuk> and udev promptly wakes the drive up to run vol_id on it
[16:16] <cjwatson> lovely
[16:17] <cjwatson> robbiew: I think that's an overreaction TBH, the broken package wasn't in place that long
[16:17] <robbiew> cjwatson: ah...Beta Mania
[16:17] <robbiew> gotcha
[16:17] <cjwatson> robbiew: I was thinking more of the 2.5->2.6 upgrade in general
[16:17] <robbiew> cjwatson: right
[16:18] <ScottK> We're close to having everything installable with 2.6 ( ~10 left I think)
[16:18] <mvo> I ran a big upgrade test today with ~3000 python releated package (main+universe) and it went fine (after some fixes yesterday)
[16:18] <mvo> but that does not mean the stuff actually works, python-support warns about 2.6 errors but does not error out
[16:19] <ScottK> I hit a couple of modules that were installable, but not working without rebuild.
[16:19] <ScottK> Fixed those of course, dunno what's left.
[16:19] <cjwatson> ScottK: have you seen evidence of other wider upgrade problems in there (like Keybuk's problem where the rtupdate hook didn't seem to be taking effect)?
[16:20] <ScottK> cjwatson: The one serious problem I'm aware of is the missing python-qt-dbus symlink that mvo is already looking at.
[16:20] <ScottK> There are just ones that won't work when someone uses them (in my case import foo failed).
[16:21] <mvo> (I should say the upgrade test had no package fialure left, the test finished right before the meeting, so I have not had a chance to investigate for problems like the ones Keybuk reported)
[16:22] <liw> mvo, in your upgrade tests, do you run into conffile prompts? (from dpkg, ucf, or other)
[16:22] <mvo> liw: no, just apport - and that is expected
[16:24] <mvo> ScottK: I was not yet able to reproduce the qt/dbus issue, but I will keep trying
[16:25] <mvo> liw: did python-fstab switch between pycentral and pysupport ever in its lifetime?
[16:25] <mvo> (or between intrepid and jaunty?)
[16:25] <liw> mvo, not as far as I can remember
[16:25] <ScottK> mvo: Thanks.  If nothing else can we add something to update-manager to fix it if we don't get a proper solution?
[16:26] <cjwatson> bug 349467: our check wasn't quite broad enough. I've asked infinity to rerun with more detail
[16:26] <mvo> ScottK: yes, but only as last resort. I'm sure more is affected than just this
[16:26] <liw> mvo, bzr seems to support my memory, for once
[16:26] <mvo> liw: execllent, thanks
[16:26] <ScottK> mvo: Definitely last resort.  Thanks.
[16:27] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News???
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News???
[16:28] <robbiew> I've seen some positive postings/blogs/articles about boot speed
[16:28] <cjwatson> any press reactions to the beta so far? I haven't been keeping watch
[16:28] <robbiew> good job Keybuk
[16:28] <slangasek> \o/
[16:29] <dholbach> http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono says we get a Mono kernel into Jaunty!
[16:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono says we get a Mono kernel into Jaunty!
[16:29] <robbiew> http://www.pcworld.com/article/162129/ubuntu_jaunty_beta.html
[16:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.pcworld.com/article/162129/ubuntu_jaunty_beta.html
[16:30] <robbiew> dholbach: ha ha...April Fools :/
[16:31] <robbiew> ok...well I got my own bugs to get back to...plus a million ToDos
[16:31] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:31.
[16:31] <robbiew> thnx all
[16:31] <slangasek> thanks :)
[16:31] <liw> thanks
[16:31] <james_w> thanks
[16:32] <mvo> Keybuk: joy! I can reproduce the problem you mentioned that stuff for python2.6 is not linked. at least python-fstab, probably more
[16:32] <cjwatson> that pcworld article is "nothing major wrong, nothing exciting"
[16:32] <cjwatson> roughly
[16:32] <Keybuk> mvo: I think it was python-openid and python-tz that I first noticed it with
[16:32] <Keybuk> oh!
[16:32] <Keybuk> no
[16:32] <Keybuk> it was python-psycopg2
[16:32] <robbiew> cjwatson: yeah
[16:33] <robbiew> cjwatson: though some of the comments are interesting
[16:33] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I see that that review mentions e4defrag - do you share my opinion that we should steer clear until it's part of an e2fsprogs release?
[16:33] <Keybuk> cjwatson: definitely
[16:34] <Keybuk> ext4 is not yet stable enough to be rearranged at a whim
[16:34] <cjwatson> yeah, that's what I thought
[16:35] <cjwatson> the only real meat in the comments is the lack of libdvdcss, which isn't something we can do much about
[16:35] <mvo> Keybuk: did you file a bug already? if not I will do that just to keep track of the issue
[16:35] <cjwatson> also gradual improvement in driver detection and the like
[16:35] <Keybuk> mvo: no, I wasn't sure whether I was just hallucinating
[16:35] <Keybuk> or whether it had been reported yet
[16:47] <dholbach> are any teams having a meeting in 15m?
[16:48] <bdmurray> maybe foundations?
[16:49] <dholbach> no, that was before already
[16:49] <dholbach> ok... in that case, the room belongs to us for a bit :)
[16:49] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[16:49] <bdmurray> okay then it should be clear the qa team is in 1:15
[16:49] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:49. The chair is dholbach.
[16:49] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:49] <dholbach> we're here for an impromptu MOTU Council meeting because of some misscheduling we had with the last one
[16:49] <dholbach> who do we have here?
[16:50] <jpds> Hello.
[16:50] <dholbach> jpds, nixternal, geser?
[16:50] <dholbach> :-)
[16:50]  * geser is here
[16:50] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Brian Murray's MOTU application
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Brian Murray's MOTU application
[16:50] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianMurray/MOTUapplication
[16:50] <dholbach> bdmurray: how are you doing? :)
[16:51] <nixternal> yo yo
[16:51] <bdmurray> dholbach: Great, thanks!
[16:52] <nhandler> Hey
[16:52] <dholbach> bdmurray: You work with lots and lots of good QA and Bug Squad people every day - do you think it'd be possible to have a greater overlap between the MOTU and the QA team?
[16:52] <dholbach> hey nhandler :)
[16:52] <bdmurray> dholbach: Certainly, one thing I'd like to work on and having been working on is improving the patch workflow i.e. properly identifying patches and getting them sponsored.
[16:53] <dholbach> bdmurray: or to ask differently: do you think there's anything that's too complicated at the moment for people to go from "bug triage" to "bug fix"?
[16:53] <bdmurray> dholbach: I get the feeling that some of the MOTU documentation is focussed on creating new packages when I think its more desirable to have people improving the packages we already have.
[16:54] <dholbach> bdmurray: some of the MOTU or PackagingGuide documentation certainly has that focus
[16:54] <nhandler> bdmurray: I was looking through the different -changes mailing lists, and most of your uploads were for python-launchpad-bugs and bughelper. If you were to become a MOTU, would you still be sticking to mainly these 2 packages, or would you try to branch out a little?
[16:55]  * ScottK says +1 for improving packages.
[16:55]  * dholbach saw a bunch of Brian Murray uploads in the last 3-4 months
[16:55] <bdmurray> nhandler: I've also done some work with apt-cacher and firefox-launchpad-plugin both of which I'd like to keep an eye on.  Additionally, since I created the ubuntu-qa-tools project I'll be keeping an eye on its package too.
[16:56] <bdmurray> nhandler: So yes, I'd like to branch out.
[16:57] <geser> bdmurray: have you done any merges or sync till now? after a look at your uploads I could only find inclusions of patches
[16:58] <bdmurray> geser: I did an update of makeztxt during Jaunty's cycle
[16:58] <bdmurray> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/makeztxt
[16:59] <dholbach> I think I remember a few patches that you sent to Debian too, right?
[17:00] <bdmurray> Yes in bug 331535, I forwarded the patch upstream and it became a sync request.
[17:00] <geser> bdmurray: what about merging ubuntu changes with a new revision from Debian?
[17:00] <bdmurray> Additionally, in bug 313260 I forwarded the patch to Debian and updated the Ubuntu package.
[17:01] <nhandler> I am sorry, but I have to leave early for personal reasons.
[17:01] <bdmurray> geser: No, I haven't done much of that.
[17:01]  * nhandler leaves
[17:01] <dholbach> nhandler: take care
[17:01] <nixternal> sorry, had a phone call
[17:01]  * nixternal catches up quickly
[17:01] <dholbach> jpds: are there any questions that you have?
[17:02] <jpds> It looks good to me.
[17:03] <dholbach> bdmurray: I'd be really interested to start working with you on the "you triaged bugs, OK, start fixing them" part of things.... is there anything from your personal experience that you found more difficult than it should have been?
[17:05] <dholbach> nixternal: any questions from you?
[17:05] <bdmurray> dholbach: When you look at a bug report about a piece of software you aren't familiar with I think it takes a bit too much effort to determine what the primary programming language and the patch system for that package are.
[17:05] <bdmurray> If a new contributor is familiar with python how can they find packages in universe to look at?
[17:05] <geser> bdmurray: as you haven't done a merge with Debian till now: how will you handle your first merges when you are a MOTU?
[17:06] <nixternal> dholbach: doing some research, 1 minute :)
[17:06] <ScottK> bdmurray: The answer to that one is look for packages subscribed to the pythonistas team.
[17:06] <bdmurray> geser: I'll follow the documenation, ask for help if I get stuck and ask for someone to review it before I actually perform it.
[17:07] <bdmurray> ScottK: That is fairly obscure.
[17:07] <ScottK> bdmurray: Extremely.
[17:08] <dholbach> to me it smells like we need some better kind of "fix bugs" portal :)
[17:09] <dholbach> nixternal, geser, jpds: do you have any more questions?
[17:09]  * dholbach is all set
[17:09] <geser> no questions left
[17:09] <jpds> Neither.
[17:09] <nixternal> good to go
[17:10] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Brian Murray become MOTU?
[17:10] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Brian Murray become MOTU?.
[17:10] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[17:10] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[17:10] <dholbach> +1
[17:10] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[17:10] <jpds> +1
[17:10] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[17:10] <geser> +1
[17:10] <nixternal> +1
[17:10] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:10] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[17:11] <dholbach> #endvote
[17:11] <dholbach> [endvote]
[17:11] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[17:11] <dholbach> congratulations bdmurray!
[17:11] <nixternal> congrats bdmurray and welcome :)
[17:11] <jpds> Congrats bdmurray!
[17:11] <bdmurray> Thanks everyone!
[17:11] <nixternal> word to the wise, do not do:  grep '\[\ \ bdmurray\]' \#ubuntu*.log
[17:11] <dholbach> jpds, nixternal, geser: anyone of you who'd like to do the honours? if not, I'll do it in a bit
[17:11] <ogra> bdmurray, SAVE THE UNIVERSE !!!
[17:12] <ogra> (and congrats :) )
[17:12]  * nixternal points at jpds to do the honours
[17:12] <nixternal> let him get his feet wet with this one :D
[17:12] <jpds> I'll do it.
[17:13] <dholbach> jpds: thanks a bunch!
[17:13] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[17:14] <dholbach> ...probably not
[17:14] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[17:14] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:14.
[17:14] <dholbach> Thanks a lot everybody!
[17:59] <ara> hey hey
[17:59] <pedro_> hello everybody
[17:59] <heno> hey all!
[18:00]  * fader_ waves.
[18:00] <bdmurray> hi
[18:00] <davmor2> Hello
[18:00] <sbeattie> hey
[18:00] <heno> jtholmes: did you want to add an item to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings ?
[18:01] <jtholmes> yes do i have edit permissions
[18:02] <heno> schwuk, ogasawara: qa meeting ping
[18:02] <ogasawara> I'm here
[18:02] <heno> hi!
[18:02] <heno> ok, let's go!
[18:02] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
[18:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <heno> lots of agenda items: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[18:03] <heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:03] <pedro_> bdmurray: congratulations on becoming a MOTU!
[18:03] <bdmurray> pedro_: You are jumping ahead!  Thanks though.
[18:03] <jtholmes> heno item  more structure to kde desktop testing
[18:03] <pedro_> ;-)
[18:03] <heno> congrats bdmurray!!
[18:03]  * heno crosses out item 3 :)
[18:04] <ara> congrats bdmurray!
[18:04] <pedro_> Ok we didn't had a hug day the past week
[18:04] <pedro_> but we're going to have a Xorg based one Tomorrow
[18:05] <pedro_> it's going to be based specifically on xorg-server and xserver-xorg-video-intel
[18:05] <pedro_> bryce did an amazing job helping us to get the hug day page on a good shape
[18:06] <heno> pedro_: and I understand you've talked to the desktop folks
[18:06] <bdmurray> pedro_: I noticed that bryce removed New bugs from the bug day.  That's a really interesting process of his.
[18:06] <pedro_> and as you can see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090402 there's already people working on it
[18:06] <pedro_> heno: yeps, as we discussed on previous meetings , we're going to start adding the hug days as an agenda items for the teams
[18:06] <sbeattie> bdmurray: any idea what the reasoning for him doing that?
[18:07] <heno> pedro_: great
[18:07] <mnemo> if bryce is planning to merge mesa 7.4, then it would be nice to have that done before the testday begins
[18:07] <bdmurray> sbeattie: not specifically, I think he checks for attachments and if they don't exist then asks for them.
[18:07] <ara> I would like to add that bryce also sent announcements to several mailing list, it is great to see how he got involved
[18:07] <bdmurray> It'd be interesting to talk to him about it and find out how well it works.
[18:08] <bdmurray> I imagine there are some errors but I wonder if the rate is acceptable and if it might work for the kernel.
[18:08] <heno> mnemo: it's a bug triage day, not really a testing day
[18:09] <heno> ok, moving on
[18:09] <heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
[18:10] <bdmurray> No new members this week but we have a couple of applications pending.
[18:10] <heno> ok, are those waiting for bugs lists etc to be submitted?
[18:10] <bdmurray> heno: No, they are in the 1 week review period.
[18:11] <heno> ok
[18:11] <heno> [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- ara|sbeattie
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- ara|sbeattie
[18:11] <ara> There was not much movement on the latest testing day
[18:12] <ara> davmor2 not being there was noticed :D
[18:12] <davmor2> sorry wifi was dead on the site :)
[18:13] <ara> there were people coming around asking for the testing day, but in the end they didn't do much
[18:13] <ara> how can we promote more activity on testing days?
[18:13] <ara> I see that people are interested, but maybe our way to run them is innerly wrong
[18:14] <heno> I guess it's better when we have proper test plans
[18:14] <heno> this was more of a test improv jam
[18:14] <sbeattie> hrm, maybe a suspend-resume testing day, where we have an explicit test, but need a wide variety of people/hardware?
[18:15] <sbeattie> or other hardware related testing, again where we can start with recipes?
[18:15] <davmor2> hmm nice
[18:15] <heno> good one, that's easy for people to do
[18:15] <heno> ogasawara: do we have a good flow of reports from suspend testing already?
[18:16] <ogasawara> heno: yes, too many
[18:16] <heno> at what point running up to release to they stop being useful
[18:16] <ogasawara> heno:  at the point where we/kernel team can't keep up with them
[18:16] <bdmurray> Isn't kernel freeze tomorrow?
[18:16] <sbeattie> heno: again, audio might make an interesting test day, particularly if we can come up with recipes/sample audio situations that should work.
[18:16] <heno> ogasawara: too many detailed reports or too many false reports/noise?
[18:17] <sbeattie> bdmurray: the apr 9th, unless google calender is lying to me again.
[18:17] <ogasawara> heno: most are people sending in reports because apport asked
[18:17] <ogasawara> heno: so I've been trying to stock reply a lot of them
[18:17] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule says 9th
[18:18] <ogasawara> heno: I've also been chatting with pete about triaging in general
[18:18] <bdmurray> Okay, that's still soon though!
[18:18] <sbeattie> bdmurray: agreed!
[18:18] <ogasawara> heno: and how the kernel team can help
[18:18] <heno> ogasawara: so that's more about people triggering thr apport hook rather than running the full test
[18:19] <heno> bdmurray: agree - very soon in this context
[18:19] <ogasawara> heno: yes, it's not obvious if it was triggered as a direct result of running the tst
[18:19] <heno> ok
[18:20] <heno> ogasawara: ok, great. let's pick up that conversation on our next call
[18:20] <heno> so ...
[18:20] <heno> audio is a candidate - also server testing
[18:20] <heno> the server team have been quite keen to get additional test coverage
[18:21] <heno> I thought we could have one about extending automated test coverage on server
[18:21] <heno> starting with the security team tests
[18:21] <cr3> heno: I already have a head start on that one, but more help would definatly be appreciated
[18:22] <cr3> I mostly have server team tests though, so there's probably little overlap with security team tests
[18:22] <sbeattie> cr3: very little
[18:22] <heno> cr3: can you share your work so far?
[18:22] <heno> is it in LP?
[18:23] <cr3> heno: nope, only local
[18:23] <heno> if we can bring server, security and checkbox folks together we might make some progress
[18:23] <sbeattie> kees from the security team was receptive to this when I talked to him yesterday about it.
[18:24] <heno> cr3: would it make sense to add the security collection to the same package?
[18:24] <heno> unfortunately their meeting day is Tuesday
[18:25] <heno> We only have one testing day before release ...
[18:25] <cr3> heno: there might be considerations for doing that
[18:25] <heno> the weeks after are both smoke testing days
[18:26] <cr3> heno: if the security team tests are overwhelmingly big, for example, I'd think about having them in a package twice
[18:26] <cr3> heno: furthermore, I think that security team integration should be done through bzr rather than included in the package
[18:26] <heno> my hunch is to do audio next Monday and work on the server automation stuff separately
[18:27] <ara> what kind of testing would you do on audio'
[18:27] <ara> ?
[18:27] <ara> heno: ^
[18:27] <cr3> heno: the motivation is that security concerns are timely, so they need to be able to run tests immediately from their branch instead of having to wait for a package to get deployed
[18:27] <cr3> sbeattie: ^^^ sounds good to you?
[18:27] <ara> btw, are you guys hit by the PA crakling noise bug?
[18:28] <sbeattie> cr3: yes.
[18:28] <heno> there are a series of tests here http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Hardware for audio
[18:28] <davmor2> ara: seemed to of cleared up after todays updates
[18:28] <heno> also, popular VoIP software
[18:29] <ara> heno: hehehe
[18:29] <eeejay> and orca, perhaps?
[18:29] <heno> indeed
[18:29] <heno> eeejay: that's still not playing nice with pulse right?
[18:29] <heno> eeejay: could you add a basic Orca case to http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com ?
[18:30] <eeejay> heno: nope, and in jaunty i noticed that PA is respawned once it is killed, so i didn't manage to get functioning orca
[18:30] <eeejay> heno: will do
[18:30] <heno> hm, so people just uninstall it?
[18:30] <heno> it did work for me in my ISO smoke testing
[18:31] <heno> but admitedly that was shallow
[18:31] <heno> any other strong views on the testing day tpic?
[18:31] <eeejay> heno, after a few tabs it stops speaking for me
[18:31] <heno> *topic
[18:31] <heno> hm, ok
[18:32] <heno> ara: it's your call :)
[18:33] <ara> heno: sorry?
[18:34] <heno> ara: as the driver for testing days I think you should make the final decision on the next topic
[18:34] <ara> heno: I think I would vote for audio, indeed
[18:35] <heno> ok, settled
[18:35] <heno> thanks
[18:35] <heno> [TOPIC] Call for UDS topics -- heno
[18:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Call for UDS topics -- heno
[18:35] <heno> It's time to start thinking about UDS topics!
[18:35] <ara> topic: audio! triaging bugs, reporting better audio bugs, scaling them, etc, etc, etc, :-)
[18:35] <heno> Please add suggestions to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UDSKarmic
[18:36] <heno> good one
[18:36] <bdmurray> An apport hook for audio bugs would be good
[18:36] <ara> bdmurray: indeed
[18:36] <bdmurray> Except they are currently mixed in the linux package
[18:36] <davmor2> bdmurray: +1
[18:37] <heno> we should make a burn down chart for apport hook coverage
[18:37] <bdmurray> perhaps if we sent them back to alsa-driver then we could have a hook for that package
[18:37] <bdmurray> ogasawara: maybe you could bring that up at your sprint?
[18:37] <ara> bdmurray: I suggested pitti to give away t-shirts reading "I report my bugs using apport"
[18:37] <bdmurray> ara: hahah
[18:37] <sbeattie> heh.
[18:37] <heno> what is a realistic first goal? apport hooks for all main packages?
[18:38] <sbeattie> main is a lot; installed by default might be a better goal.
[18:38] <bdmurray> sbeattie and I talked about this before and we should look at the packages with the greatest volume of bugs first and move down that list
[18:38] <heno> makes sense
[18:38] <heno> good UDS topic
[18:38] <heno> next
[18:38] <heno> [TOPIC] Bugs since sometime -- bdmurray
[18:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs since sometime -- bdmurray
[18:39] <bdmurray> Just in case you haven't heard I've made a bugs since Beta report
[18:39] <bdmurray> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bugnumbers/bugs-since-2009-03-26.html
[18:39] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bugnumbers/bugs-since-2009-03-26.html
[18:40] <heno> already populated with bugs :)
[18:41] <heno> from the New and Confirmed state AFAIK - why confirmed and not Incomplete?
[18:41] <davmor2> bdmurray: a couple then
[18:41] <bdmurray> "using the theories that the bug is missing information if it is Incomplete and somebody who knows what they are doing looked at it if it is Triaged."
[18:42] <bdmurray> So bugcontrol can work on moving the Confirmed ones to Triaged and targetting for the release if necessary
[18:42] <heno> as explained here http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=40 :)
[18:43] <heno> ok, great
[18:43] <davmor2> found a dupe already :)
[18:43] <heno> [TOPIC] Patch flagging tools -- bdmurray
[18:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Patch flagging tools -- bdmurray
[18:44] <heno> see http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=41
[18:44] <bdmurray> As a part of the patch workflow process it helps to make sure attachments are properly flagged as patches and that patches really are patches and not something else.
[18:44] <bdmurray> I've thrown a couple of tools to make this easier in ubuntu-qa-tools.
[18:45] <bdmurray> They make it a one step process to (un)flag the attachment and add a comment about the what you did and the importance of flagging them properly.
[18:46] <pedro_> nice, and we're running a bugs with patches hug day next week ;-)
[18:46] <heno> bdmurray: these are command line tools accepting bug# as an argument, right?
[18:46] <pedro_> we can ask people to test those tools there
[18:47] <bdmurray> right something like check-patch-comment.py 355778
[18:47] <heno> cool
[18:48] <heno> jtholmes: did you have a topic?
[18:48] <jtholmes> yes i was wondering about structured test plans and if there are any
[18:48] <jtholmes> i saw the link above but have not had time to check
[18:49] <jtholmes> specific numbered test plans work the best
[18:50] <jtholmes> comments
[18:50] <heno> jtholmes: davmor2  can probably fill you in on the state of test plans for Kubuntu AFAIR that was your focus)
[18:50] <davmor2> jtholmes: what like these http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Applications
[18:50] <jtholmes> yes that was my intended focus
[18:51] <davmor2> not written yet but will have a scheme similar to the above
[18:51] <heno> let's leave that for next week then, after you've charted what we currently have
[18:51] <jtholmes> davmor2 yes something like that now that i know where some are i will look them over
[18:51] <heno> Any other topics?
[18:51] <jtholmes> sure good
[18:51] <fader_> I just wanted to bring up one quick thing
[18:52] <fader_> I have a "sanity checking" script I've started on to help with iso testing to determine if the install worked from a first-blush analysis
[18:52] <fader_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sanity.sh
[18:52] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sanity.sh
[18:52] <fader_> If anyone has any ideas to add to this or improve it let me know... I'll try to get it cleaned up and in a state where we can use it in iso testing
[18:53] <heno> fader_: looks good, thanks
[18:53] <ara> fader_: what does the script do?
[18:54] <heno> we'll make sure to use it for RC testing
[18:54] <fader_> ara: at the moment it does some very simple checks to see if the most important directories and files exist and have the right permissions
[18:54] <fader_> (think /bin, /etc/passwd, etc.)
[18:54] <fader_> And checks a few things like making sure there's a network device detected, a working package manager (dpkg)
[18:54] <bdmurray> fader_: there was a bug at the end of the last release cycle with permissions that'd be good to add too
[18:55] <fader_> bdmurray: Excellent, if you can point me at where to find that I'll add it
[18:55] <heno> right, that was the inspiration for this
[18:55] <fader_> bdmurray: (or give me a bit of context and I'll find it in LP)
[18:55] <sbeattie> fader_: yeah, the security has something vaguely similar now, but there's elements that can be merged
[18:55] <davmor2> fader_: good call after last release with the slight hiccup in permissions
[18:55] <cr3> fader_: it would be nice if you could contain each test in its own standalone script, so that you can run them individually
[18:55] <fader_> The idea is just to make sure we have the absolute basics of a working Linux system installed :)
[18:55] <cr3> fader_: if you did that, your tests could be integrated into other suites like checkbox, shunit, etc.
[18:56] <fader_> cr3: I can break it out like that but I'm leery of making it too unwieldy -- I'd like to have something we can ask people to run and just get a quick error count (of 0 we hope) after an install
[18:56] <fader_> Though heno and I discussed getting it into checkbox and asking people to run that instead
[18:56] <bdmurray> fader_: also if you could add a check for bug 274069 that'd be great too
[18:56] <cr3> fader_: keep the separate in your project, use a Makefile to concatenate them together
[18:56] <ara> fader_: the bug about the permissions: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/290798
[18:56] <bdmurray> basically MTU greater than 576 I think
[18:57] <fader_> cr3: sounds good, I'll work with you to figure out how to get it into CB properly
[18:57] <fader_> bdmurray, ara: thanks, I'll look at those bugs and see what I can add
[18:57] <cr3> fader_: whether it be eventually integrated or not is one thing, I'm only expressing concern to make it "integratable"
[18:57] <fader_> Anyone else that has suggestions please drop me a line :)
[18:57] <heno> all sounds good!
[18:57] <heno> 3 min left, AOB?
[18:58] <heno> thanks everyone!
[18:58] <heno> #endmeeting
[18:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:58.
[18:58] <ara> thanks!
[18:58] <davmor2> ta
[18:58] <eeejay> cheers :)
[18:59] <pedro_> thanks