[00:08] <directhex> ooh, may presents many opportunities for keysigning. how enormously exciting
[00:11] <YokoZar> haha so this page is rather inflated by the 100+ instances of "awkward punctuation in "about Ubuntu" docs" filed against every package http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html
[00:12] <YokoZar> actually that might just be launchpad vomitting
[00:16] <directhex> oh dear. madwifi no longer works on the acer aspire one in jaunty
[00:18] <maxb> Did it work in Intrepid?
[00:18] <maxb> I didn't think so.
[00:22] <directhex> yeah, it did
[00:22] <directhex> ath5k is also busted
[00:24] <maxb> ath5k WJFFM
[00:24] <maxb> madwifi very definitely *doesn't* work on Intrepid for me
[00:24] <maxb> (Well, a new enough snapshot from upstream does, but not the l-r-m one)
[00:25] <directhex> hm, wiki suggests blacklisting a module
[00:26] <directhex> that did the trick
[00:30] <maxb> which module?
[00:31] <directhex> acer_wmi
[00:31] <directhex> completely breaks ath5k
[00:42] <dtchen> directhex: see http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee830266b8f7780717796fea891ae35fe48c2fdf
[00:44] <directhex> dtchen, oh, neat. will that make it into the kernel that ships on jaunty (or into backports-modules)?
[00:44] <dtchen> directhex: probably into jaunty proper
[00:45] <directhex> afaik that would leave only hotplugging woe with the card reader as a "big"  AA1 glitch
[00:48] <directhex> hm, fan seems to be not spinning, that was an annoyance in intrepid
[02:54] <maxb> Hmm, I just used requestsync, but it subscribed ubuntu-release, not ubuntu-main-sponsors, despite the fact I used -s and am not a core-dev
[02:54] <maxb> that's a bug?
[03:20] <neatojones> Hello.  I'm running Jaunty with latest updates and can't get the kernel module "loop" to load.  It doesn't appear to be in the kernel modules.  Does anyone know where I could get this for Jaunty?
[03:20] <neatojones> I was expecting the module to be in /lib/modules/2.6.28-7-generic/kernel/drivers/block/loop.ko
[03:25] <dtchen> neatojones: CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y
[03:25] <neatojones> So, I need to recompile the kernel with that?
[03:25] <maxb> No, it means it's builtin
[03:25] <dtchen> neatojones: no, it's compiled in now and hence not a module.
[03:26] <maxb> 2.6.28-7-generic is far away from the latest updates, btw
[03:26] <neatojones> oh. So, just run that command?
[03:26] <dtchen> it was changed in 2.6.28-4.5
[03:26] <dtchen> it's not a command; it's from the kernel configuration
[03:27] <dtchen> i.e., you don't need to modprobe loop. it's already loaded.
[03:28] <neatojones> thanks
[03:28] <neatojones> I keep getting errors sayign that it isn't loaded
[03:28] <neatojones> which is why I thought I needed to  load it.
[03:29] <neatojones> ...but no wonder modprobe wasn't working :)
[03:30] <neatojones> My script is returning this error:  raise OSError("Error loading kernel module %s" % (mod,))
[03:30] <neatojones> oops...wrong part.
[03:30] <neatojones> OSError: Error loading kernel module loop
[03:33] <neatojones> maxb-sorry.  I misspoke on that :( I do have the new kernel.
[03:34] <doctormo> Hey guys, I'm looking for translation tools for svg files.
[03:38] <johanbr> doctormo: I'd be surprised if such a thing exists.
[03:38] <johanbr> You can always make a script that replaces <text> tags in the svg file, I guess.
[03:39] <doctormo> johanbr: Er, I'm after something that uses switch tags and languageSetting attributes propperly. svg does support i18n, just getting those into the launchpad translations is hard.
[03:47] <johanbr> doctormo: oh, I see
[03:48] <doctormo> johanbr: indeed, infact editing language specific text works in inkscape, it's just a matter of being able to generate a pot file and then recombine the po files back into the svg.
[05:56] <dtchen> directhex: yes, the fix is available in -11.39-generic
[06:07] <dholbach> good morning
[06:15] <mrsteveman1> is functionality similar to delta rpms available in deb based systems like ubuntu, is such functionality planned, or is it not worth the potential problems it may cause?
[06:34] <StevenK> mrsteveman1: Such as 'debdiff' ?
[06:47] <LaserJock> StevenK: I think mrsteveman1 mean binary (.deb) diffs, like for -updates
[06:48] <StevenK> Oh, so you only download the differences? Ick.
[06:49] <LaserJock> that's how openSUSE does updates as an example
[07:05] <mrsteveman1> does that just make things more difficult?
[07:05] <mrsteveman1> i imagine there are moderate bandwidth gains to be had
[07:06] <mrsteveman1> and lower costs for repo hosts
[07:53] <YokoZar> mrsteveman1: lower bandwidth costs, higher storage costs (especially when you start storing large deltas)
[07:54] <YokoZar> or rather large numbers of deltas
[08:07] <pitti> Good morning
[08:08] <pitti> calc: 348667> I'll look
[08:23] <pitti> calc: hm, seems it didn't work well last time, so another retracing won't gain much, I'm afraid
[08:23] <pitti> calc: it could be done manually with a few more debug symbols etc., but that's hard work
[08:31] <pitti> I hope that this bzr branch & rosetta marriage in LP wasn't just an April's fool, this sounds like a great feature
[08:44] <pitti> mvo: bug 348301 sounds a bit like interference with update-manager's changing of /etc/default/apport to enable it for upgrades?
[08:45] <pitti> mvo: I wonder what to do about it
[08:45] <pitti> mvo: if u-m changes the file in exactly the way the new package ships it, it shouldn't prompt, right?
[08:52] <mvo> pitti: right
[08:52] <mvo> pitti: I can do that.
[08:55] <pitti> mvo: how do you modify the file right now?
[08:56] <pitti> mvo: just s/enabled=0/enabled=1/ ?
[08:56] <pitti> mvo: I just wonder how we handle this for the final release, since we'll disable apport for it
[08:56] <pitti> mvo: will you disable the temporary apport enabling in u-m too for final, or will that stay?
[08:56] <slangasek> mdke: wow; I knew it was safer to rmdir in the postinst, but I didn't realize it would be proven that quickly :-)
[08:56] <mvo> pitti: I want to disalbe the enabling of apport  for RC
[08:57] <pitti> ah, ok
[08:57] <mvo> pitti: yes, just the sed equivalent in python
[08:57] <pitti> mvo: hm, I wonder what it's complaining at then
[08:57] <mvo> pitti: its modifiyng the intrepid file, but the jaunty file has a addtional line in it
[08:57] <pitti> ah, of course
[08:57] <pitti> # you can temporarily override this with
[08:57] <pitti> # sudo force_start=1 /etc/init.d/apport start
[08:57] <mvo> yes
[08:58] <mvo> I can copy the jaunty version over and modify that, that should work
[08:58] <mvo> eh, no need to modify :)
[08:58] <mvo> but copy it iover
[08:59] <pitti> mvo: good idea, you'd extract it from the .deb?
[09:02] <mvo> pitti: good idea, then it would also automatically  be disabled when you disable it in the deb
[09:04] <mvo> pitti: I check it out how robust this will be, I do not want to add late breakage :)
[09:04] <pitti> mvo: it indeed sounds intrusive, downloading that deb first, extracting, etc.
[09:04] <pitti> mvo: perhaps just add the current jaunty conffile for now, and disable the code for final?
[09:05] <mvo> pitti: yeah, and the more sophicstiacted code for karmic
[09:05] <mvo> thanks pitti!
[09:05] <pitti> mvo: also, I don't plan to change that conffile again for karmic (except for enabling/disabling)
[09:05]  * pitti hugs mvo, danke
[09:05] <pitti> mvo: erm, hang on
[09:06]  * mvo hangs
[09:06] <pitti> mvo: why do we have to change the conffile in the first place?
[09:06] <pitti> # you can temporarily override this with
[09:06] <pitti> # sudo force_start=1 /etc/init.d/apport start
[09:06] <pitti> it could just call that?
[09:06] <pitti> mvo: or does libapt read the conffile itself?
[09:06] <mvo> pitti: this is not available in intrepid yet, is it? I need to start the intrepid version
[09:06] <pitti> mvo: dang, you are right
[09:07] <pitti> also, this force_start won't trigger python
[09:07] <pitti> nevermind for now
[09:08] <mvo> ok
[09:19] <Mez> bug 350732
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: the retracers all break down due to new LP and p-lp-bugs
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: the heck with it, I'm working on the launchpadlib migration now
[09:40] <seb128> great ...
[09:40] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[09:40] <pitti> let's not waste any more time on fixing plpbugs
[09:40]  * pitti invokes a new PPA bzr commit -m 'lazily log into Launchpad, so that bug reporting does not need it'
[09:40] <pitti> WTH?
[09:40] <pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/apport-retracer I meant to copy
[09:41] <pitti> that's how you reveal s3kr1ts, copy&paste errors..
[09:41] <directhex> the great thing about having 2 clipboards is you can never be sure which one gets used!
[09:52] <pitti> cprov: multi-ppa and copying between them is soooo awesome!
[09:52]  * pitti hugs cprov
[10:19] <seb128> pitti, mvo, slangasek: ok, so gnome-screensaver breaks after 2.24 to 2.26 updates
[10:20] <seb128> ie if you still have the old version running after upgrade and lock the screen it doesn't unlock
[10:20] <seb128> but display a flickering screen with no password entry
[10:20] <seb128> I didn't upload 2.26 yet due to that
[10:20] <seb128> do you think it's a blocker (ie we should not update until that's solved)?
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: asked the other way around, what would we lose by not updating?
[10:23] <seb128> pitti: NEWS summary is on bug #345107
[10:23] <seb128> several bug fixes but nothing crutial I think
[10:23] <seb128> we don't want to stay on 2.24 for ever
[10:23] <seb128> but we can for sure wait next cycle and see if somebody fixes the issue or have the cycle to work on it
[10:29] <pitti> if we can't find a way to kill the old screensaver on upgrade and start the new one (if the old one was running), I guess that's a valid fallback
[10:29] <seb128> that would unlock locked session
[10:31] <Mithrandir> pitti: you're on vendor-sec, aren't you?  What's the address?
[10:35] <directhex> seb128, so do it in reverse. is it possible to start the new daemon then kill the old one, leaving no period of unwanted unlockedness?
[10:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: I haven't been any more for years
[10:35] <seb128> directhex: you can't have 2 instances running no
[10:36] <seb128> directhex: and how would you make sure that nobody open a menu or something during the split second when there is no screensaver which would prevent locking
[10:37] <directhex> seb128, well, that's why i'm suggesting that having two instances briefly is better than no instances briefly
[10:37] <seb128> doesn't work
[10:37] <seb128> you can't run 2 instances and the first one already grab the screen, would be complicated to do
[11:15]  * pitti happily sees the apport python dup checker run with launchpadlib
[11:27] <tseliot> pitti: I've sent an email to the mailing list about bug 320632 as you suggested. Just FYI
[11:27] <pitti> tseliot: great, thanks!
[11:27] <tseliot> np
[11:28]  * ogra wonders why ubiquity never selects "nodeadkeys" by default in german installs
[11:32] <thekorn> pitti, great news, so apport is not depending on py-lp-bugs anymore?
[11:32] <pitti> thekorn: it still does in jaunty
[11:32] <pitti> thekorn: but I uploaded the launchpadlib branch packages to https://edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/apport-retracer now
[11:32] <pitti> thekorn: and I'm in the middle of deploying those to the retracers
[11:33] <gopogo> hi
[11:33] <pitti> thekorn: uploading this to jaunty involves a FF and a MIR for python-launchpadlib
[11:33] <pitti> I'll file those, but I wanted to roll this out now
[11:33] <pitti> thekorn: since p-lp-bugs is broken again with today's LP rollout
[11:33] <gopogo> Can I use Ubuntu remix on standard laptop
[11:33] <pitti> jaunty chroots now seem to work as well
[11:34] <thekorn> pitti, broken p-lp-bugs, I know :(
[11:34] <gopogo> I want to install on my dads laptop
[11:34] <pitti> thekorn: but now I don't care any more :)
[11:34] <ogra> does any gernam in her use the default german Xorg keymap instead of nodeadkeys ?
[11:34] <thekorn> pitti, :) that's fine
[11:34] <pitti> ogra: nodeadkeys FTW (but I'm usually using US layout)
[11:35] <ogra> pitti, right, its the only default i have to change in all my live installation tests and i was wondering if selecting nodeadkeys as a default wouldnt be cleverer
[11:35] <ogra> i personally dont know anyone not using nodeadkeys
[11:35] <pitti> well, I find it a "programmers" vs. "letter writers" issue
[11:36] <pitti> my wife occasionally needs accents
[11:36] <pitti> and she doesn't do shell backticks, etc.
[11:36] <ogra> hmm
[11:36] <ogra> i wonder if we should do a strawpoll on the de ML
[11:36] <pitti> I have no strong opinion about the default, but it's easy enough to change in ubiquity, thus *shrug*
[11:36] <gopogo> Can I use Ubuntu remix on standard laptop ..........I want use it on Dads 15 inch centrino laptop with 1 gb ram
[11:36] <ogra> i know historically in dexconf it was alway defaulting to nodeadkeys
[11:37] <dholbach> ogra: the answer will depend on where you ask, I guess :)
[11:37] <ogra> *always
[11:37] <pitti> gopogo: I don't see why not; -> #ubuntu please, though
[11:37] <gopogo> i am invisible ;-
[11:37] <ogra> dholbach, yeah, its tricky
[11:37] <ogra> but i remember all my debian installs as well as all my early ubuntu installs defaulted to it ... i think that change came with ubiquity
[11:38] <gopogo> pitti: can UNR run on non atom cpu like centrino
[11:38] <ogra> gopogo, thats really a question for #ubuntu
[11:38] <gopogo> i dont think anybody knows there
[11:39] <cjwatson> ogra: no, it did not come with ubiquity.
[11:39] <cjwatson> ogra: console-setup is more likely
[11:39] <ogra> cjwatson, ah
[11:39] <ogra> do we inherit it from debian ?
[11:39] <cjwatson> ish
[11:40] <cjwatson> it's a complete rewrite of the old console keyboard handling infrastructure
[11:40] <ogra> ah, k, then i wont complain ...
[11:40] <cjwatson> and it does affect how the X keymap is chosen
[11:40] <ogra> i just notice that i always have to do these two extra clicks if i do test installs
[11:40] <cjwatson> well, it sounds like a legitimate complaint, I'm just explaining how it came about
[11:40] <ogra> yeah
[11:41] <ogra> pitti is right though, it migth be different for textwriters
[11:41] <cjwatson> although for the record I can't find any evidence that nodeadkeys used to be used by default
[11:41] <ogra> hard to judge from a programmers POV :)
[11:41] <cjwatson> still looking around and trying to remember how the old stuff works
[11:41] <pitti> ogra: dead keys are a programmer's nightmare, but so is the entire German layout in the first place :)
[11:41] <ogra> heh
[11:41] <ogra> well, depends :)
[11:42] <ogra> cjwatson, it was seeded by dexconf iirc
[11:42] <pitti> because vim keybindings, C/Python operators, LaTeX commands etc. were all designed to be convenient to type on the US keyboard
[11:42] <cjwatson> ogra: no
[11:42] <cjwatson> ogra: xserver-xorg.postinst chose deadkeys or not based on the installer-selected keymap
[11:42] <ogra> ah
[11:43] <ogra> i thought i saw something hardcoded in dexconf, but i might misremember
[11:43] <ogra> its a while ago i looked at it
[11:43] <cjwatson> ogra: ah, here we go, you're right, it did use to be nodeadkeys by default
[11:43] <ogra> right
[11:43] <cjwatson> console-keymaps-at/keymap's Choices has de-latin1-nodeadkeys and not de/de-latin1
[11:43] <ogra> at least in my debian installs i'm sure
[11:44] <cjwatson> ogra: I'd like to have the output of a straw poll of course
[11:44] <ogra> yeah, i'll do one though i'm not actually sure where ... ubuntu-de might generate different output than ubuntu-devel ... the latter surely reaches more people
[11:45] <ogra> (or -devel-discuss)
[11:46]  * ogra thinks he'll do two 
[11:46] <cjwatson> I care more about "typical" German users than developers
[11:46] <cjwatson> whatever "typical" might mean
[11:46] <gopogo>  can UNR run on non atom cpu like centrino  ?
[11:47] <directhex> gopogo, absolutely
[11:48] <gopogo> thanks
[11:48] <directhex> gopogo, the unr images on cdimage are for i386 or amd64, and will run on any system regular ubuntu does
[11:49] <liw> ime developers tend to prefer non-localized systems, or only lightly localized systems, and have an unnaturaly fancy towards non-standarda layouts :P
[11:49] <gopogo> can I convert unr iso to usb img ?
[11:51] <directhex> why not doenload the usb image?
[11:51] <directhex> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/9.04/beta/ubuntu-9.04-beta-netbook-remix-i386.img
[11:57] <mdz> mvo: which dist-upgrader log file would show the conffile prompts?
[12:01] <liw> mdz, I _think_ it's term.log
[12:01] <mdz> liw: ah, yes it is, I found an example. thanks
[12:04] <mvo> mdz: main.log will have it
[12:04] <mvo> (and term.log as well)
[12:05] <cjwatson> so I've been a little worried about our bug-fixing performance over time, and regenerated my graph of bug-fixes-uploaded-per-month a few days back to have another look at it
[12:05] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bugfix-history/plots/month-fixed.png
[12:05] <cjwatson> look at that spike last month! and I'm not sure that even includes most of the post-beta fixes
[12:06] <dholbach> holy moly!
[12:06] <cjwatson> (generated based on whatever was in my mailbox at 2009-03-27 19:43 local)
[12:06] <dholbach> good work everybody :)
[12:06] <gopogo> is webkitkde in ubuntu repo ?
[12:07] <mdz> cjwatson: nice!
[12:07] <pitti> heh, nice december UDS/christmas break
[12:08] <cjwatson> yes, some events are very visible on this kind of graph
[12:09]  * cjwatson regenerates it. Takes a while since it has to plough through lots of mailboxes
[12:12] <liw> I'm supposed to be able to edit the kernel command line in grub, right? whatever I try ends up in rebooting directly into BIOS
[12:13] <liw> hm, no, I can delete an argument ("quiet") and that works...
[12:14] <mdz> liw: worked for me last time I checked
[12:14] <liw> perhaps it _is_ the arguments I am trying ("iommu=soft" and "ata_ignore_hpa=0") then
[12:15] <liw> or perhaps Ubuntu really, really hates me, and not just my hard disks *sigh*
[12:15] <directhex> it's totally personal
[12:31] <pitti> seb128_: okay, please delete all apport cron mail you got until now
[12:31] <seb128_> pitti: ok
[12:32] <seb128_> pitti: did you manage to fix the retracers?
[12:32] <pitti> seb128_: I just finished with upgrading them all to launchpadlib
[12:32] <pitti> there was some fallout
[12:32] <pitti> seb128_: if you ever have to fix something, https://edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/apport-retracer has the extra packages now
[12:32] <pitti> seb128_: launchpadlib/wadllib backports, and apport packages from the launchpadlib branch for all supported releases
[12:33] <seb128_> pitti: ok
[12:33] <pitti> all retracers are on auto again
[12:34] <pitti> seb128_: due to the backport, hardy/intrepid now get the "autoclosing on obsolete pacakges" and some robustness fixes as well now
[12:34] <pitti> seb128_: I'll have lunch now, and deal with potential fallout in an hour
[12:34] <pitti> until then, all retracers should have run at least once
[12:34] <seb128_> exellent
[12:34]  * seb128_ hugs pitti
[12:34] <seb128_> good work!
[12:34] <pitti> *phew*
[12:35] <pitti> it was overdue
[12:35] <pitti> but quite some work
[12:35] <pitti> seb128_: I'm glad that Spads responded immediately to fix ronne's firewall rules
[12:40] <kwwii> hey seb128_, I subscribed you to the bug about the murrine engine version, so you don't forget ;)
[12:40] <seb128_> kwwii: I don't forget but I though you said they would roll a tarball?
[12:41] <kwwii> seb128_: not that I know of, all I know is that it is fixed in svn
[12:41] <seb128_> ok
[12:41] <kwwii> someone might have a package ready, let me ask around
[12:45] <seb128_> it's easy enough to backport a change
[12:45] <seb128_> I was just waiting on a new tarball
[12:47] <kwwii> seb128_: seems like someone did it already...https://launchpad.net/%7Esuraia/+archive/ppa/+files/gtk2-engines-murrine_0.90.1-0suraia1~jaunty1_0.90.2-0ubuntu1+svn170~jaunty1.diff.gz
[12:48] <seb128_> well they should open a sponsoring request bug then
[12:48] <seb128_> it will be faster for me to backport the svn change than to chase ppa versions
[12:49] <kwwii> hrm, ok...so what should I do? what would be faster/better?
[12:50] <seb128> nothing?
[12:50] <kwwii> lol
[12:50] <seb128> if you know the guy who has the ppa you can ask him to open a sponsoring request
[12:50] <seb128> if he doesn't I will just backport the change later today
[12:51] <kwwii> don't know him, and his email address isn't public, but I am sending him an email through launchpad, I'll get back to you
[12:52] <seb128> ok
[13:07] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bugfix-history/plots/month-fixed.png updated; those extra four days at the end of the month gave us another 200 bugs fixed or so
[13:07] <cjwatson> obviously it drops way down again since April only just started
[13:08] <cjwatson> IOW last month we fixed around 60% more bugs than any previous month on record
[13:08] <liw> yay for bug fixing
[13:18] <mdz> mvo: when you have a moment, could you have a look at bug 353768?
[13:21] <mvo> mdz: sure
[13:21]  * mvo looks
[13:35] <pitti> seb128: argh, now the launchpadlib errors start to strike
[13:36] <mvo> mdz: hm, tricky, trivial to workaround with the release-upgrader, but there should be a better generic way
[13:48] <mdz> mvo: should I go ahead and force the upgrade on my system, or is there useful debugging I could do?
[13:53] <mvo> mdz: forcing it should be fine, I can reproduce it here
[13:54] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: ^
[13:56] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: thx :)
[15:23] <calc> pitti: oh ok, np
[15:28] <pitti> seb128: ok, please delete retracer cron mails again; should be fixed now *knocks on wood*
[15:29]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[15:40] <NCommander> cjwatson, good morning (or afternoon), did you get a chance to look over the possible solutions for shadow? (my patch didn't work after shadow finished building so back to square one for me)
[15:40] <cjwatson> not yet
[15:40] <cjwatson> I've been trying to fix RC installer bugs all day
[15:43] <NCommander> That Wubi one looks like a pain
[15:47] <cjwatson> NCommander: oh, that one I'm leaving alone
[15:47] <kwwii> seb128: bug made for sponsoring the murrine engine from the private ppa #353832
[15:48] <seb128> kwwii: thanks
[15:52] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Hi. I have a problem with indicator-applet. I've Evolution & Pidgin running, and both apps appears in the applet menu. However, sometimes one of them dissappears. Now, for example, Pidgin is running but its menu option has gone, so I can't select it in the applet and therefore I can't open the buddy list. This morning happens with Evolution, too
[15:53] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Do you know if this is a known issue?
[15:53] <tedg> RicardoPerez: Yes, it's a known problem, there's a fix in trunk, but I haven't made a release yet as I'm working on other fixes.
[15:54] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Great, so I don't need to submit a new bugreport, right?
[15:54] <tedg> RicardoPerez: It involves system and session bus ids matching and removing each other.  So if you don't log out and log in often, it should happen less :)
[15:55] <tedg> RicardoPerez: No, you shouldn't need to.  You're welcome to comment on bug 345599 though.
[15:55] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Oh, well, actually I never log out after rebooting or shutdown-restart...
[15:55] <tedg> RicardoPerez: Rebooting is your problem there.  Don't do that, no kernel upgrades ;)
[15:56] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Peeking into it
[15:57] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Mmmm... According to the bug 345599, it seems that the problem is notification icon dissappearing. My issue is that a menu entry dissappears, not the icon
[15:57] <tedg> RicardoPerez: It's the same in that if you only have one of the two apps running, the whole thing will disappear.
[15:58] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Oh, that sounds reasonable :) Can I try and test the trunk version in order to make sure?
[15:58] <tedg> RicardoPerez: Sure!  bzr branch lp:indicator-applet
[15:59] <RicardoPerez> tedg: That command downloads the source, right? Can I build a .deb binary package using that source?
[16:00] <tedg> RicardoPerez: Not directly.  I haven't merged it into the packaging branch.
[16:01] <RicardoPerez> tedg: But I can "make install" without fear, don't me? ;)
[16:02] <tedg> RicardoPerez: Heh, a healthy amount of fear would probably be good ;)
[16:02] <tedg> I wouldn't do it on a production system or anything like that.
[16:03] <RicardoPerez> tedg: Mmmm... I'll try to do it, I'm brave :) Thanks a lot!
[16:16] <mdz> mvo: regarding bug 349725, do we actually allow upgrades from 8.04 to 9.04 in one step?
[16:18] <mvo> mdz: kubuntu requested it
[16:18] <mvo> mdz: they want to support kde3 -> kde4 upgrades without going over intrepid
[16:19] <mvo> we will also need it for the next lts
[16:19] <mdz> mvo: interesting, I see
[16:20]  * mvo was a bit suprised aobut this too
[17:15] <calc> Riddell: shouldn't konqueror be registering alternatives for www-browser and x-www-browser?
[17:29] <Riddell> calc: yes, bug 353678
[17:29] <calc> Riddell: ok
[17:29] <calc> Riddell: also seems that sensible-browser is bunged
[17:32] <calc> sensible-browser is only special cased for gnome and does not use xdg-open at all
[17:52] <LaserJock> mdke: around?
[17:52] <mdke> LaserJock: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[17:53]  * LaserJock curses mdke's autoresponder
[18:00] <sabdfl> james_w, kenvandine_wk: apparently you rock! re gajim. thanks.
[18:04] <kady> calc: hello
[18:05] <calc> kady: hello
[18:05] <kady> calc: how are You?
[18:06] <calc> kady: ok, who are you? :)
[18:07] <kady> Just checking of you are the person to talk to about state of OO.o ?
[18:08] <kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: thanks... i want to see more stuff using the cool indicator stuff!
[18:08] <calc> kady: yes
[18:09] <calc> kady: whats up?
[18:09] <kady> calc: what is the state of the KDE 4 builds
[18:09] <kady> I heard they are turned off due to problems ?
[18:09] <calc> kady: there is no KDE 4 support in OOo period
[18:09] <NCommander> cjwatson, so I determined the reason behind the 0 for password expiration age getting written to the shadow file; we set that via login.defs, but removing unfortunately does not solve the issue. It seems if password age == 0, you MUST change your password even if the password aging fields are blank.
[18:09] <calc> kady: at the source level, so no way to really enable it for builds, it only halfway worked to compile but it didn't actually function properly since OOo does not support KDE4
[18:09] <kady> calc: not even disabled?
[18:10] <kady> calc: any plans to?
[18:10] <calc> kady: no there is no code written to support KDE4 in OOo
[18:10] <calc> kady: maybe long term, there is a novell guy who does all the KDE support, but he does a lot of other work too so hasn't had time to write kde4 support for OOo
[18:10] <calc> kady: if you want to write the support you are welcome to :)
[18:11] <kady> calc: That's what I was trying to get to who is in charge of that
[18:11] <kady> there is a kde.oo.o site that hasn't been touched for years
[18:11] <NCommander> cjwatson, thats an intentional behavior, so now the question is; what do we do to get that field blank?
[18:11] <kady> the "team" is dead
[18:11] <kady> ?
[18:12] <kady> sounds like it if the one person who can do anything is not even working on OO.o
[18:12] <calc> kady: jan holesovsky (Kendy on irc) is who works on it, the official novell build is called go-oo / ooo-build which is available at go-oo.org
[18:12] <kady> go-oo is what Ubuntu uses I heard
[18:13] <kady> No idea of the truth of that
[18:13] <calc> kady: yes it is
[18:13] <calc> kady: he's mentioned on that page you linked to: "Jan Holesovsky /kendy at openoffice org/"
[18:14] <kady> ok thanks
[18:14] <calc> he still does a lot of work on OOo but just doesn't have time to fix up for KDE4
[18:14] <calc> i think Novell doesn't ship kde4
[18:14] <kady> Do you know what were the problems they were having
[18:14] <kady> calc: They have nightly builds of KDE4 so ....
[18:14] <calc> kady: ah ok
[18:15] <calc> kady: i think its just a time issue of he hasn't had time to write the kde4 file dialog and maybe some other stuff
[18:15] <calc> i do know at least that the kde4 file dialog is not done
[18:15] <kady> calc: might be better to try and build somethign a little more long term than a 2 week push then
[18:16] <kady> KDE4 is still in flux and I would expect thigns needt o get tweaked as time goes by and OO.o and KDE4 improve
[18:16] <kady> might make more sense to try and get three interested people to work with this
[18:16] <kady> thanks
[18:16] <kady> I'll try and contact him
[18:17] <calc> ok
[18:18] <kady> calc: Does Ubuntu plan to package OO.o extentions they way they do FF ?
[18:21] <askand> Hi!  I remember seeing a nice tool that helps you get the right format in the changelogfile? what was that?
[18:21] <LaserJock> askand: dch ?
[18:22] <calc> kady: if someone wants to do it they can
[18:22] <calc> kady: i have no plans to package all the extensions in the world myself
[18:22] <calc> kady: we have a few extensions packaged and maybe a few with each new release will be done, but not all of them by any stretch
[18:23] <askand> LaserJock: thanks
[18:24] <kady> calc: oh no not at all :) packaging all the FF extensions would be an exercise in exhaustion that I hope would be done as a sacrifice in the name of science :)
[18:25] <kady> but the idea is to provide useful functionality without having people wander around the net installing things
[18:25] <kady> I would argue that OO.o is probably more in need of that service than FF
[18:33] <lamont> ubuntu-bug /usr/bin/xvnc4viewer
[18:33] <lamont> Error showing url: Failed to execute child process "/usr/lib/firefox/firefox" (No such file or directory)
[18:33] <lamont> does that mean it filed the bug? (which would really be better with _some_ form of content...
[18:35] <ogra> lamont, from my experience it treis to log in with your browser and makes you add subject and description
[18:35] <ogra> *tries
[18:36] <lamont> ah, so that'll be _2_ bugs to file manually. kewl
[18:36] <ogra> so i would doubt it filed anything
[18:37] <lamont> searching lp for bugs in the package in question yielded a clean slate, wasn't sure if it was using the mail interface, or just completely faceplanting
[18:37] <ogra> i would guess it uses SENSIBLE_BROWSER ot x-www-browser
[18:37] <ogra> just a guess but i think w3m or lynx might work as well
[18:38] <lamont> it's probably related more to the fact that there are 2 instances of firefox (aka SENSIBLE_BROWSER) in 2 profiles running
[18:39] <sabdfl> kenvandine_wk: you and me both :-)
[18:40] <lamont> morning sabdfl
[18:40] <sabdfl> hiya lamont, 's a good season for firefighting :-)
[18:40] <kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: got other things you can suggest?
[18:41] <lamont> 'struth
[18:43] <sabdfl> kenvandine_wk: is gwibber using the Messaging Menu?
[18:43] <greg-g> segphault has a bzr branch for that support
[18:44] <sabdfl> love to see that in the default install for 9.10 :-_)
[18:44] <greg-g> sabdfl: we'll see what he and the team can do :)
[18:45] <kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: there is a branch, yes
[18:45] <kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: i am using it :)
[18:45] <greg-g> kenvandine_wk: this one right?  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~segphault/gwibber/gwibber-indicate
[18:45] <kenvandine_wk> and providing some feedback to ryan :)
[18:46] <kenvandine_wk> greg-g: yes... if you have indicate-python installed
[18:46]  * greg-g nods
[18:46] <kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: once i get those python bindings sponsored :)
[18:47] <Laney> kenvandine_wk: If you want that in Jaunty you should seek a freeze exception
[18:47] <Laney> but it is now exceptionally late
[18:48] <Laney> i'm happy to review it after that though
[18:48] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[18:55] <jcastro> sabdfl: ryan is merging messaging indicator support today or tomorrow, should be in jaunty this week if all goes well.
[18:56] <jcastro> sabdfl: pending the python bindings of course
[18:57] <sabdfl> rockalong
[18:57] <askand> Who has the final saying on what should be included by default in Ubuntu?
[18:57] <sabdfl> FINAL say?
[18:57] <sabdfl> me
[18:58] <sabdfl> but there are quite a few better places to start.
[18:58] <askand> sabdfl: I have posted to the ubuntu-devel-discussion list :)
[18:58] <askand> I was just curious
[18:58] <sabdfl> that's a very good place to start.
[19:06] <askand> sabdfl: Haha, didn't know that you were the founder of Ubuntu and actually the one who has the final say, thought you were just some random helpful guy with hybris :)
[19:07] <sabdfl> tada, i'm both ;-)
[19:11] <highvoltage> askand: he also says that "Linux is a phenomenal facebook device" :)
[19:13] <calc> anyone know if there is way to use evolution to send an email from the command line?
[19:13] <calc> i need to reset my debian password but i don't have local mta setup which aiui is what 'mail' requires
[19:14] <azeem> why is sending an email from the command-line required to reset your debian password?
[19:14] <calc> azeem: apparently you have to do the following: https://db.debian.org/doc-mail.html
[19:15] <calc> echo "Please change my Debian password" | gpg --clearsign | mail chpasswd@db.debian.org
[19:15] <bryce> sabdfl: :-)
[19:15] <calc> i suppose possibly typing that in and making evolution do the equivalent of clearsign will work as well
[19:15] <walters> calc: like 5 years ago i successfully used evolution's gpg signature stuff to do that, but i wouldn't be surprised if it regressed now
[19:15]  * calc isn't sure if there is an easy way to do that in evolution
[19:16] <azeem> calc: or just c&p the first two pipes into evolution's new mail body?
[19:16] <azeem> but I'd try what happens if you just send a signed mail first
[19:16] <calc> azeem: iirc i've tried that but it doesn't quite work for some reason
[19:16] <calc> but haven't tried just a signed email
[19:21] <calc> walters: ah it did work with just signing it :)
[19:23] <slangasek> NCommander: so, texlive-bin still ICEs on arm with gcc 4.3; are there optimization tweaks we could try in order to get it building?  I'm not keen to have to re-promote gcc-4.2 to main for a single package
[19:33] <NCommander> slangasek, I can mess around with it, no promises if I can fix it though :-/
[19:34] <slangasek> I just got access back to an arm again, I'm poking at it a bi
[19:34] <slangasek> t
[19:37] <NCommander> slangasek, if you want superuser access to an ARM box, you can use one of mine.
[19:37] <slangasek> already sorted here
[19:37] <NCommander> slangasek, ah good
[19:38] <directhex> at least ARM works in qemu
[19:38] <directhex> i could never get sparc/ppc going
[19:52] <mdke> LaserJock: now I am
[19:56] <mdke> LaserJock: I guess for the edubuntu-docs upload, you'll need to ship the symlink at /usr/share/gnome/help/libs to point at /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs and install the edubuntu libs there, to cater for the case where edubuntu-docs are installed on their own
[20:17] <maco> tedg: i'm in gnome now, and yes the envelope is visible
[20:18] <tedg> maco: Great!
[20:19] <maco> tedg: is there a bug filed for the "is online" notifications going to the indicator applet instead of only the messaging notifications going there, for pidgin?
[20:20] <tedg> maco: It's not a bug, it's a requested feature!  Basically so you can respond to them quickly if they're important.
[20:20] <maco> oh
[20:20] <tedg> maco: They disappear pretty quickly.
[20:20] <maco> they disappear out of there?
[20:20] <maco> i thought the stuff in the indicator applet was supposed to persist
[20:21] <tedg> Yes, it's only recent logins.
[20:21] <maco> ah ok
[20:21] <maco> nice
[20:21] <tedg> There's a request to increase the length of time, so I'll probably do that here shortly.
[20:21] <tedg> They're only there for 15 seconds now.
[20:21] <maco> also, does new gdm know how to handle user switching and logouts and things using dbus? or is it still the domain sockets I saw comments in FUSA's code alluding to?
[20:22] <tedg> Yes.  The current gdm is sockets, the new one is DBus.
[20:22] <maco> is jaunty current or new?
[20:22] <tedg> Current in Jaunty.  GNOME upstream is actually a different one.  We're lagging.
[20:22] <tedg> GNOME upstream is "new".
[20:23] <maco> ok. and fusa should be updated to use the dbus stuff in karmic then, so it stops crashing when it cant find domain sockets in kdm?
[20:23] <tedg> The plan is for Karmic to make it understand both GDM and KDM so that users don't have to worry about that anymore.
[20:23] <maco> yay!
[20:25] <LaserJock> mdke: I think I'll rather just not use libs/ unless you have an  objection
[20:26] <LaserJock> mdke: we're only shipping one doc these days, I don't see as much value in using "common" files these days
[20:27] <mdke> LaserJock: so you'll just stop using entities at all?
[20:27] <mdke> LaserJock: or ship them in the document itself?
[20:28] <LaserJock> mdke: the easiest would be to just ship them with the doc itself
[20:29] <LaserJock> you end up having a copy for each translation, but I'm not sure if that's a big deal
[20:30] <LaserJock> *or* I could ship the .ents in /usr/share/edubuntu-docs/
[20:30] <LaserJock> I just don't think we necessarily need to overlap namespace
[20:53] <mdke> pitti: no docs for UNR as far as I know yet
[20:54] <askand> tedg: It's not a bug, it's a requested feature, but is there a bug filed for the "is online" notifications going to the indicator applet  anyway? :)
[20:55] <tedg> askand: I don't think so.  Feel free to start one. :)
[20:56] <askand> tedg: nah, it propably will not be changed so close to release anyway, I think I can learn to live with it :)
[20:56] <maco> i vote in favor of configuration options next time
[20:57] <maco> and im totally a gnome user at the moment, so no kde comments!
[20:57] <maco> :P
[20:58] <maco> uh....i also dont recommend trying to launch xmonad while a gnome session is running O_O
[21:00] <kirkland> pitti: cool, working on the update-notifier ecryptfs bits ... let me know if you need my help!
[21:38] <NCommander> cjwatson, I'm just been made aware that we're having build queue issues with armel; if you upload anything thats important for arm (like installer bits), I'll be around for most of the day/night so feel free to ping me for rescores (I'm rescoring your last uploads)
[21:38] <NCommander> cjwatson, I also uploaded a potential fix for the useradd issue
[21:39] <infinity> NCommander: Well, the "issue" is that there are 3 giant sources building right now.  Hard to fix that, unless we want them killed.
[21:40] <NCommander> infinity, I've gotten reports that builds are getting stuck in the queue; base-installer for instance didn't build infront of the mass rebuilds.
[21:41] <infinity> NCommander: Yeah, that sometimes happens too.  Especially if a package is given-back in the web UI and gets a score of 0. :/
[21:42] <NCommander> infinity, yeah, I keep pushing builds to the front of the queue, like KDE :-/
[21:47] <xq> is there a definite issue, that has been confirmed, with the usb boot build of jaunty beta?
[22:48] <slangasek> lool, NCommander: texlive-bin builds fine on armel, with gcc-4.3 -O0, fails with -O1; any objections to making that change?
[22:49] <superm1> slangasek, have you been doing much experimentation with already installed systems switching to grub-pc?
[22:50] <slangasek> superm1: not yet; you?
[22:50] <superm1> slangasek, well I did back in 8.04, and it was OK.  I was just doing some experimentation with 9.04 stuff and it's looking like it's not defining the root line properly wrg to UUIDs now
[22:50] <NCommander> slangasek, no objections here
[22:51] <slangasek> superm1: ah; I think UUID handling is an open item in the spec, isn't it?
[22:51] <superm1> slangasek, no I had thought upstream integrated UUID support, but maybe so maybe it's just something wrong with the postinst
[22:52] <slangasek> I thought the syntax between the two is different
[22:52] <superm1> slangasek, and if I skip grub1 and install grub2, it uses UUIDs and does the right thing.  it's just when transitioning, something doesn't get written out write in grub1's menu.lst
[22:52]  * slangasek nods
[23:19] <slangasek> what's the authoritative way to find out what optimizations a given -O level implies?
[23:20] <slangasek> (since g++-4.3's manpage appears not to accurately define these for armel)
[23:21] <azeem> slangasek: -dumpspecs maybe?
[23:22] <azeem> sorry
[23:22] <mathiaz> sbeattie: just installed apport on one of my jaunty vm - gdb was pulled in.
[23:23] <mathiaz> sbeattie: I'm not sure we want to have gdb installed by default on every server install (in the case we choose to install apport by default)
[23:24] <mathiaz> sbeattie: same comment for python-xdg
[23:24] <sbeattie> mathiaz: hrm, okay. I wonder how needed it is for the backtrace.
[23:25] <sbeattie> mathiaz: can you file a bug on those against apport and subscribe me to it? Thanks.
[23:25] <mathiaz> sbeattie: ok
[23:27] <slangasek> azeem: "sorry"?  (nothing in -dumpspecs seems to cover this, anyway)
[23:27] <azeem> "sorry" for saying something without checking first
[23:28] <sbeattie> mathiaz: I'll talk to pitti about it and the issue I have saving reports; I really think it would be valuable to have apport installed on the server by default, particularly if we get more per-package apport hooks -- look at the ones for apparmor and mdadm for the kinds of information we can collect.
[23:29] <mathiaz> sbeattie: agreed.
[23:29] <cjwatson> NCommander: there's no special rush for installer builds just now
[23:29]  * sbeattie has a goal of increasing the number of apport hooks for server packages in the kranky kitty devel cycle.
[23:29] <cjwatson> NCommander: I can rescore them myself if I need to, too ;-)
[23:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: the info documentation isn't all that bad is it?
[23:30] <superm1> slangasek, well this takes care of the problem http://pastebin.com/f3a9badc8 , but ignores the situation of people who go and use a separate root line in menu.lst (whereas the previous approach ignored the more common case of people who used UUIDs)
[23:31] <mathiaz> sbeattie: bug 354172 for your pleasure
[23:31] <cjwatson> NCommander: (thanks, though)
[23:31] <sbeattie> mathiaz: thanks.
[23:31] <slangasek> cjwatson: is it guaranteed to be authoritative?  I'm trying to find the key optimization causing an ICE on armel, and the manpage claims -O1 is equal to a set of optimizations which is clearly incomplete
[23:32] <mathiaz> sbeattie: so if I want to write hooks for mysql-dfsg-5.0, what would be the name of the apport hook file?
[23:32] <mathiaz> sbeattie: source_mysql-dfsg-5.0.py?
[23:32] <NCommander> cjwatson, I didn't know you were a buildd admin
[23:33] <cjwatson> NCommander: tech board
[23:33] <cjwatson> slangasek: no, I wouldn't like to say guaranteed
[23:33] <NCommander> I didn't know the tech board were in the buildd admin group
[23:33] <cjwatson> the tech board *owns* the buildd admin group
[23:33] <NCommander> I didn't know the tech board owned the buildd admin group ;-)
[23:33] <sbeattie> mathiaz: yes, source_[source_package_name].py
[23:34] <the_dark_warrio> when running 'gksu gedit', the screen should get faded by a semi-transparent window, but it isn't covering my hole screen, which I think is due to the high res (1680x1050). Is this a known bug? Should I report it?
[23:34] <slangasek> superm1: brain is returning ENOSPC; file bug + target?
[23:36] <superm1> slangasek, sure will do
[23:38] <slangasek> cjwatson: right, the info docs lie in the same way as the manpage
[23:38] <cjwatson> d'oh, sorry for misdirecting you then
[23:39] <slangasek> n/p
[23:39] <slangasek> would be nice if there were a commandline arg to gcc/g++ to spit it out :/
[23:46] <cjwatson> I think some of the optimisations don't actually correspond to independent -O options
[23:51] <slangasek> heh - indeed, apparently -O1 -fno-tree-ter works, but -O0 -ftree-ter also works
[23:57] <TheMuso> /c/c
[23:59] <cjwatson> NCommander: quick glance over my comments on bug 349504? might be able to upload tonight if you can sign off the last point
[23:59] <NCommander> Oh ****
[23:59] <NCommander> I respan the debdiff to fix that
[23:59] <NCommander> I guess I uploaded the old one by mistake