[21:01] Hi, I'm a little discouraged that there's been no feedback about the proposed fridge themes... [21:01] maybe you've looked at them and like none, if you're holding back on feedback because you don't want to hurt anyones feelings, please just email me directly [21:03] otherwise, it would be great to hear some comments... what you like about various things, if a great departure from the ubuntu website would be good or if you prefer the ones that share the rounded box on brown background [21:15] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/FridgeTheme - put your comments on that page directly or email the news team list or email me, matthew.nuzum@canonical.com [21:28] i've jaunty now :) [21:48] newz2000, I'll have a look now [21:48] thanks [21:48] newz2000, I'll make the decision if nobody else weighs in :-D [21:48] today just guide, monday we'll decide [21:48] * newz2000 is a poet today [21:49] oh wow [21:49] so many new ones! [21:56] newz2000: I replied a few minutes ago [21:56] Personally, I like Sand & Mercury's Entry [21:57] Make sure to say what it is you like or dislike since the goal here is to get people active for the last couple days [21:57] I personally think we can do better than what we've seen yet [21:57] yup [21:57] But partly that's just to piss off boredandblogging, who I know likes tripmxkay's Blue Ground Mockup. Hee hee [21:58] heh [21:58] i'll try to be more detailed [21:58] Seriously, tripmxkay's Blue Ground Mockup isn't bad. [21:59] But I just CAN'T let boredandblogging get away with beating me to it. [21:59] i liked trip and sand [21:59] heh [21:59] Yea, it was a real toss-up between the two. [22:00] Whichever, they would both need some work to allow for login of administrators, etc. [22:00] newz2000, (et al) - emailed my opinions [22:01] And, to be a bit contrary, I don't like the way the UWN was set in there. But that can be worked on, too, in tripmxkay's Blue Ground Mockup [22:01] Too difficult to read. [22:02] I have a preference for a new site layout [22:02] The Developers conference madrid was well done, though. [22:02] not just a re-color of the existing layout [22:02] but that's just my own opinion [22:02] The Fridge has looked the same since it was started [22:03] boredandblogging: you picked one that was in the normal ubuntu layout and one that was different, do you have an opinion on if it stays rounded or breaks out? [22:04] tyche: you too [22:04] newz2000: What do you mean by "breaks out" [22:04] does not have the rounded box on the coloured background [22:05] joey: Well, if you want REALLY different, see http://www.azloco.com/ [22:05] * joey hands tyche the sledgehammer [22:05] AH!!! A maul. Is it named "Darth"? [22:05] :-) [22:06] Also, question #2 - do you like seeing a full-post on the homepage or would you prefer a post teaser? [22:07] As to breakout - I like the rounded corners. It separates things better. [22:08] As to full-post or teaser, I suppose my UWN work is showing, but I'd prefer teaser. [22:08] I like rounded corners too. Even on the 2nd one I suggested, if those boxes were rounded it would look nicer [22:08] tyche, as in http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page ? [22:08] by rounded corners I mean the whole page in a rounded box like ubuntu.com is [22:08] newz2000: Yep. That, too. [22:09] joey: YES! [22:09] newz2000, I can live with rounder or breakout. Rounded is a bit more interesting as long as it scales well [22:09] (Please understand that these are just my personal opinions, and in no way are reflective of the opiinions of a REAL person) [22:09] tyche, how about a LARGE teaser.... [22:09] tyche, one where it's more than a blurb but shorter than the whole story? [22:10] * joey goes off to find an example [22:10] joey: For examples without pictures, see UWN 135. I'm not against pictures, we just don't use them on the UWN. [22:11] tyche, yah. I'm thinking a good summary vs a headline [22:11] It does mean having someone who can go in and see what the information is, and encapsulate it into a briefer form. [22:11] Yep [22:11] we don't have a high enough volume to mandate a headline so...why not make use of that [22:11] That's what we try to do with the UWN [22:12] First, using teasers leaves more space on the front page for more entries. [22:12] Second, they don't end up scrolling off before people can read them. [22:13] So do I understand correctly that you guys are preferring a look that has teasers instead of full stories on the homepage? [22:13] newz2000: That's MY opinion. [22:13] tyche, how about this format? http://www.faz.net/s/homepage.html [22:13] I'd call that a teaser [22:14] k [22:14] Format for teasers, though I can't really read German, is good. Format for the page doesn't meet the needs of the Fridge, I don't think. [22:14] so I don't have a strong preference but I'd lean towards a dedicated column for articles and those articles had a 1 paragraph teaser in them [22:15] s/in/for [22:15] Yep. That sounds about right. [22:15] and needs to accommodate sometimes having an image and sometimes not [22:15] correct [22:15] so, tyche and I seem to agree :-D [22:16] Oh, definitely. But from my point of view, the addition of images is an "extra", rather than a default that has to be canceled out. [22:16] agree there too [22:16] maybe on 1/3 of the stories will have pics [22:16] joey: Of course (SCHLUUUUUURP). [22:16] Hee hee [22:16] You think it would be that high? [22:16] previously no, but lately, I think [22:17] pics aren't that hard, plenty of CC out there [22:17] Maybe. I haven't seen that, myself. [22:17] I might suggest using compfight to grab cc images [22:18] yup [22:18] hope my replies to the thread don't seem harsh [22:18] so everyone likes sand and mercury, what about it would you like to see continued? [22:19] newz2000, s/everyone/everyone but Joey who thinks it is pretty but too close to the Fridge theme/ [22:19] (not to be construed as a veto) [22:20] well, everyone thought it worthy enough to mention. :-) [22:20] i like the fact that it actually highlights a story, know I sound like a broken record about it [22:20] yeah because it has pictures [22:20] take away the pictures and it falls aparet [22:20] apart [22:20] boredandblogging: that black box at the top? [22:20] newz2000: yes [22:21] * joey pulls them up again [22:21] how often does the ubuntu community (fridge,uwn,etc) create original content that could be featured like this? [22:21] we can choose to use it for the latest post or something specific if need be [22:22] If we could combine some of the colour elements and highlighting from Sand with the format of In Progress, I'd find that quite pleasant to use [22:23] the In progress mockup doesn't rely on pics [22:23] which as tyche pointed out, we have little of [22:24] if we always had pics, in progress falls apart [22:24] I agree that's key [22:24] in progress looks rather bland though due to lack of styling [22:24] if we gave it a facelift it would be more appealing I think [22:25] newz2000, could we ask those guys two things? [22:25] joey: you mean the Fridge in progress by MadsRH? [22:25] newz2000, 1) do a 2nd mockup of Sand w/o most of the pictures [22:25] tyche, yes sir [22:25] newz2000, 2) see if we could get a little more "effect styling" to In progress? [22:26] I don't know if they would be willing to do that [22:26] I'll bet they would [22:26] especially since we may not use their items [22:26] OK, That's not bad, but I see the problem of putting pictures in it. It would overblow the "style" of the page. [22:26] I'd like to see the sans-picture Sand mockup to prove to myself if it will fail with no pictures [22:27] tyche, yeah so we'd only have the VIDEO picture and then a picture, maybe, with each teaser on the left column [22:27] tyche, so, 2 stories max plus video [22:27] that sound right? [22:28] ok, will you guys be around for 20min or so? I think I might write this up and then pastebin it so you can check it out before I send it [22:28] I will be [22:29] should be [22:29] ok, let me see if what I can pull together [22:29] Well, the teaser for the UWN takes up a lot of space, at least the way johnc4510's been doing it, so far. I think there'd normally be room for 2 picture teasers or picture and non picture teasers. [22:29] Also, we don't always have Videos that would be advertised. [22:29] I kinda feel like Sands and In Progress are on a see-saw. One has too much, the other too little :-) [22:30] (And yes, I noticed WHICH one that person used. Hee hee) [22:30] right but that was part of the requirements that newz sent out to the team. [22:30] joey: Yes, there I'll agree with you. [22:31] However, I also like the idea of a plain (or at least graduated) single color background, like a paper was laying on a desk. It makes it easier to scale for larger screens, without making one feel that something is missing. [22:32] tyche, my fear of Sands is that if you go look at it now, and then remove the pictures, you'll see http://fridge.ubuntu.com/ as it is today :-) [22:32] What we did with azloco.com was to scale the middle area, so the columns remained the same size. It works for us, but I don't think it would work for the Fridge. [22:32] tyche, yeah I like that paper on the desk look too [22:33] joey: Good point. But could we put a background around Fridge in progress? [22:33] sure! [22:33] Other minor things, like "Latest headlines" being instead "Selected from the Planet" [22:33] in fact, I hope so! [22:34] oooh that's an interesting idea Craig [22:34] LOL [22:35] Well, isn't that where we usually get our headlines from? The UWN does it by getting links from outside. But the Fridge is more of an insider resource. [22:35] Planet Poop [22:35] er [22:35] Planet Press [22:35] from the Planet. [22:36] Fridge doesn't today but it could. An "Overheard on the Planet".... column would be interesting [22:36] joey: I hope you realize that what we're suggesting would require a chief editor and at least one or two contributors to keep it flowing. [22:36] so, I've been meaning to speak to you about that..... [22:36] * joey grins. [22:37] Which means that we'd have an internal organ and an external organ. I'll let your imagination fill in the blanks. Hee hee [22:37] ok, while I catch up on what you've been discussing, read this and tell me what needs added: http://pastebin.com/d2577478 [22:38] tyche, so I had an idea for one of those boxes [22:38] tyche, an automated google news search for the title of Ubuntu with a required word of Linux (to prevent sport stories) [22:39] I have a feed URL but it is a mile long [22:39] http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&as_scoring=r&as_maxm=4&q=ubuntu+linux&as_qdr=m&as_drrb=q&as_mind=4&as_minm=3&as_maxd=3&output=rss [22:39] what would be cool is to feature cc licensed photos that embody the spirit or idea of Ubuntu on a weekly basis [22:40] joey: BTW, you DO realize that a "joey" is a type of clown, hence I don't take your grin as meaning anything. So there! Hee hee [22:41] newz2000, 2 comments: 1) wtf! use paste.ubuntu.com :-) 2) the "in progress" comment might be a little contentious but I like it :-) [22:41] tyche, =) [22:42] newz2000: In general, I think you captured our thinking. [22:42] As to the CCed photos, that might be more difficult, but not impossible. [22:42] yeah, a future idea [22:43] newz2000, before you hit enter... [22:43] tyche, boredandblogging - question [22:43] joey: I tried something like that when I first started with the UWN, but the danged thing was useless. It always came in on MONDAY. [22:43] tyche, boredandblogging - do you want the Fridge to be a) bright, colourful, and busy, b) clean, colourful, and simple, or c) something else? [22:44] how about a happy medium? [22:44] :-P [22:44] boredandblogging, sure... give me adjectives [22:44] boredandblogging: no, you have to pick [22:44] those creative guys love adjectives :-) [22:45] The basic structure should be clean, to allow someone to make more of it when necessary or applicable. But it does need the color outside to differentiate "PAGE" from "BACKGROUND" [22:45] i do prefer simple [22:45] simple, to my mind, equals clean. [22:45] It makes it easier to scan and read [22:46] ok, so I hear clear/simple as a winner as I agree there too [22:46] Busy detracts from the messages being delivered. [22:46] boredandblogging, what about outside & background? [22:46] I saw cool script that pulsed the background colour gradually through every shade in the rainbow [22:46] i have no opinion about colors as long as its not grey [22:47] newz2000: That would be busy. [22:47] not really [22:47] ok, I agree with tyche that we should try a mockup of differentiation of page vs background [22:47] I was kidding. (well, I have seen it but I'm not really suggesting we use it) [22:47] I agree with boredandblogging, but would say colors instead of pastell. Using a graduated background would be fine, too. [22:48] I agree with not grey :-) You too tyche? [22:48] Yep [22:48] ok, 3 things we agree on them [22:48] er then [22:48] er right [22:48] I also think it should be outside the "standard" Ubuntu colors. [22:48] hmm, so explain that a little more tyche [22:48] * newz2000 needs to get clarification on this [22:49] Some cool color, such as blue or green, not the tan/orange of Ubuntu. There can be such a thing as too much of a good thing. [22:49] newz2000, we agree so far on a) not grey, b) clear/simple, c) colours not pastels, d) differentiation of page vs background [22:49] for a mockup [22:49] Leave the Ubuntu colors to the Ubuntu.com pages [22:49] ok, so does twitter's homepage do this? (except for the pastel part) http://twitter.com/ [22:50] tyche, so I think I'm not with you on this one. [22:50] tyche, I'd rather have more white than colour [22:50] tyche, more google vs over zealous ubuntu brown [22:50] Hmmm. Maybe, depending on how the "watermark" was done. [22:51] joey: I'm talking just about the background. That's the area that would be scaled into or out of, depending on the size of the individual's screen and resolution. [22:52] tyche, more zoozimps than Sunset (to use a gmail theme example) [22:52] tyche, ah I see [22:52] For example, I'm running a 1440 X 900 screen. The colored background simply means "OK, I don't need to look there." [22:52] yeah, same here [22:52] same screen size even on my work computer [22:53] I'd rather the background be subdued [22:53] But on a 1024 X 768 screen, that area would be reduced, but the main page would appear to be the same as the 1440 X 900 [22:53] I find with very bright backgrounds (newz - like the canonical wiki) that my eyes cross and start bleeding [22:53] Yep, subdued is possible (just add more black, and cut the value of the color) [22:54] tyche, you don't like the brownish slate currently on ubuntu.com ? [22:54] I think it's fine for ubuntu.com. I think the Fridge should be different from it, though. [22:55] I'd even go with a brushed steel look [22:56] hmm we may not agree on that one. I'm more an apple style guy vs a microsoft style guy [22:56] brushed steel does not equal grey. Brushed steel is actually (graphically) a combination of thin white and black lines, vertically. [22:57] joey: ok, so not grey, coloured. But not pastel and don't make your eyes bleed. [22:58] Another color is raw sienna, done as a graduated top to bottom [22:58] newz2000, do we have a new background planed for jaunty? [22:58] for the desktop or the web-page? [22:58] desktop: yes, two, website: no [22:58] newz2000, web [22:59] no change. There'll be a homepage banner again. [22:59] you know tyche and boredandblogging, I actually find the newer moz header quite nice. What do you think? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/9584 [22:59] * newz2000 pretends joey didn't just say that [23:00] * joey laughs. [23:00] How about a Nokia beta blue tyche? http://betalabs.nokia.com/ [23:00] * tyche joins newz2000 in ignoring joey's comment. [23:00] newz2000, do you think we could change the web background? [23:00] newz2000, or would it meet with resistance? [23:00] you mean change the fridge theme's background periodically? [23:01] joey: The nokia one is interesting, and an example of what I meant by graduated. [23:01] newz2000, no... just something different from the current Ubuntu one. I'm wondering if someone in Marketing or Mark would get upset [23:02] for the fridge or for ubuntu.com? [23:02] (Yea, I know. I'm back to sucking up to the boss) [23:02] tyche, you know, I really like the ovi look. e.g. https://mail.ovi.com/playr/login [23:02] newz2000, fridge [23:02] no one will mind [23:02] Ovi = too much white on white. [23:03] * joey nods at both of you. :-) [23:03] Too much like Mondrian [23:03] so newz2000, how about with that email and the adjectives above... you include a prompting for a different low-key background [23:04] joey: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mondrian_Comp10.jpg [23:04] low-key? [23:04] oh, I thought you were saying the opposite [23:05] newz2000, by low-key I mean somewhere between bright orange bleeding eyes and mud shale ubuntu.com [23:05] * joey grins. [23:05] ok [23:05] is a texture / image / gradient good or bad? [23:05] * joey looks at tyche and boredandblogging [23:05] um. Dunno for me. I'm open for mockups [23:06] A background should be exactly that: Something that falls into the background and doesn't detract from the main interest - in this case, the Fridge [23:06] ok [23:06] * joey admits to be partial to Novel/Suse green [23:06] newz2000: Texture, done right, is good. Gradient is good. Image is POSSIBLY bad [23:07] yeah, depends on the image4 [23:07] how about this? (NSFW) from ubuntu calendar? http://www.marcus-fischer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ubuntu-calendar-march1.jpg [23:07] oh, right, it has the ubuntu brown so it won't work [23:08] right but his website might work http://www.marcus-fischer.com/ [23:08] look at that background tyche [23:08] Well, you might also get some flak from Ubuntu-Women [23:08] That is nicely done [23:09] The drop-shadow works, too. [23:09] yeah, love the drop shadow [23:09] look at how he's bowed the top here: http://www.marcus-fischer.com/?page_id=2 [23:10] err, well, the whole site I guess [23:10] I didn't notice until just now :-D [23:10] Yep. He's got two things going at the same time. The graduated background, and the highlights and drop shadow from where he places his light source. [23:11] And he carries that over into the upper band of the "page", by showing where the light source is. [23:12] ok, that's it. No more feedback. [23:13] For a physics student at the University of Hamburg, he shows remarkable ability in graphic design. [23:13] I'm going to get this ready and pastebin for one more review. [23:13] 2min [23:13] (that could be a stock wordpress theme) [23:13] Then SOMEONE has VERY good taste [23:14] I agree, that is remarkably good [23:14] That sort of thing is plain, but makes a statement at the same time. [23:15] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/143732/ [23:16] I need to add something there about avoiding ubuntu title font and over-styling the text. [23:18] newz2000, just missing one thing [23:18] newz2000, a big thanks to everyone from the Fridge team [23:18] good plan [23:19] newz2000, maybe "put together a new plan" could be "put together a new plan or revise an existing one" [23:19] Looks good, especially with joey's addition. [23:20] ok, got it [23:20] I'll send and copy the news team [23:22] joey: RE: " [14:36] so, I've been meaning to speak to you about that....." So, what did you want? [23:23] nothing but to harass you :-) [23:23] Ah. OK. NP [23:23] I stand harassed. Hee hee [23:25] newz2000, one more thing.. [23:25] newz2000, thank you very very much for your help! [23:25] my pleasure [23:25] BTW, as a follow up to my follow up comment to that: I was once told, "It takes a wise man to play a fool." This was told to me by the head of Clown Alley for Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Baily Combined Shows, Inc. [23:25] I'm sure boredandblogging and tyche would agree [23:25] Yep. Definitely. [23:25] sometimes getting other people to do work is more fun than doing it yourself [23:26] newz2000: Ah, yes. Delegation of authority by a lazy man. Hee hee [23:26] lazy? Its easier just to do it yourself. [23:26] :-) [23:26] I Heartily approve. LOL [23:30] tyche, why do I get the feeling you delegated all of your work and you just pretend to be retired now? :-) [23:33] Nope. I actually retired. But before I left, I tried to have everyone up to speed on the idea of sharing ideas and ways of "short-cutting" the work without sacrificing quality. Some of it actually managed to carry over, after I left. [23:33] ah ha! I see. [23:33] However, I'll admit to being a lazy man. I work VERY HARD at being lazy. [23:34] Does anyone know if my email about the sun shipping Ubuntu laptops made it to the news list or did I send it to the wrong place again? [23:34] It's on the Ubuntu-news-team list. [23:34] I get it as a digest [23:35] ok good. :-) I'll wait to see if anyone wants to do it before I do [23:37] newz2000: Your post just hit the mailing list. Looks good. [23:37] cool [23:37] I think I'm going to go eat some dinner [23:37] catch you later gang [23:37] Enjoy