[21:01] <newz2000> Hi, I'm a little discouraged that there's been no feedback about the proposed fridge themes...
[21:01] <newz2000> maybe you've looked at them and like none, if you're holding back on feedback because you don't want to hurt anyones feelings, please just email me directly
[21:03] <newz2000> otherwise, it would be great to hear some comments... what you like about various things, if a great departure from the ubuntu website would be good or if you prefer the ones that share the rounded box on brown background
[21:15] <newz2000> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/FridgeTheme - put your comments on that page directly or email the news team list or email me, matthew.nuzum@canonical.com
[21:28] <Tumie> i've jaunty now :)
[21:48] <joey> newz2000, I'll have a look now
[21:48] <newz2000> thanks
[21:48] <joey> newz2000, I'll make the decision if nobody else weighs in :-D
[21:48] <newz2000> today just guide, monday we'll decide
[21:48]  * newz2000 is a poet today
[21:49] <joey> oh wow
[21:49] <joey> so many new ones!
[21:56] <boredandblogging> newz2000: I replied a few minutes ago
[21:56] <tyche> Personally, I like Sand & Mercury's Entry
[21:57] <newz2000> Make sure to say what it is you like or dislike since the goal here is to get people active for the last couple days
[21:57] <newz2000> I personally think we can do better than what we've seen yet
[21:57] <boredandblogging> yup
[21:57] <tyche> But partly that's just to piss off boredandblogging, who I know likes tripmxkay's Blue Ground Mockup.  Hee hee
[21:58] <boredandblogging> heh
[21:58] <boredandblogging> i'll try to be more detailed
[21:58] <tyche> Seriously, tripmxkay's Blue Ground Mockup isn't bad.
[21:59] <tyche> But I just CAN'T let boredandblogging get away with beating me to it.
[21:59] <boredandblogging> i liked trip and sand
[21:59] <boredandblogging> heh
[21:59] <tyche> Yea, it was a real toss-up between the two.
[22:00] <tyche> Whichever, they would both need some work to allow for login of administrators, etc.
[22:00] <joey> newz2000, (et al)  - emailed my opinions
[22:01] <tyche> And, to be a bit contrary, I don't like the way the UWN was set in there.  But that can be worked on, too, in tripmxkay's Blue Ground Mockup
[22:01] <tyche> Too difficult to read.
[22:02] <joey> I have a preference for a new site layout
[22:02] <tyche> The Developers conference madrid was well done, though.
[22:02] <joey> not just a re-color of the existing layout
[22:02] <joey> but that's just my own opinion
[22:02] <joey> The Fridge has looked the same since it was started
[22:03] <newz2000> boredandblogging: you picked one that was in the normal ubuntu layout and one that was different, do you have an opinion on if it stays rounded or breaks out?
[22:04] <newz2000> tyche: you too
[22:04] <tyche> newz2000: What do you mean by "breaks out"
[22:04] <newz2000> does not have the rounded box on the coloured background
[22:05] <tyche> joey: Well, if you want REALLY different, see http://www.azloco.com/
[22:05]  * joey hands tyche the sledgehammer 
[22:05] <tyche> AH!!!  A maul.  Is it named "Darth"?
[22:05] <joey> :-)
[22:06] <newz2000> Also, question #2 - do you like seeing a full-post on the homepage or would you prefer a post teaser?
[22:07] <tyche> As to breakout - I like the rounded corners.  It separates things better.
[22:08] <tyche> As to full-post or teaser, I suppose my UWN work is showing,  but I'd prefer teaser.
[22:08] <joey> I like rounded corners too.  Even on the 2nd one I suggested, if those boxes were rounded it would look nicer
[22:08] <joey> tyche, as in http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page  ?
[22:08] <newz2000> by rounded corners I mean the whole page in a rounded box like ubuntu.com is
[22:08] <tyche> newz2000: Yep.  That, too.
[22:09] <tyche> joey: YES!
[22:09] <joey> newz2000, I can live with rounder or breakout.  Rounded is a bit more interesting as long as it scales well
[22:09] <tyche> (Please understand that these are just my personal opinions, and in no way are reflective of the opiinions of a REAL person)
[22:09] <joey> tyche, how about a LARGE teaser....
[22:09] <joey> tyche, one where it's more than a blurb but shorter than the whole story?
[22:10]  * joey goes off to find an example
[22:10] <tyche> joey: For examples without pictures, see UWN 135.  I'm not against pictures, we just don't use them on the UWN.
[22:11] <joey> tyche, yah.  I'm thinking a good summary vs a headline
[22:11] <tyche> It does mean having someone who can go in and see what the information is, and encapsulate it into a briefer form.
[22:11] <tyche> Yep
[22:11] <joey> we don't have a high enough volume to mandate a headline so...why not make use of that
[22:11] <tyche> That's what we try to do with the UWN
[22:12] <tyche> First, using teasers leaves more space on the front page for more entries.
[22:12] <tyche> Second, they don't end up scrolling off before people can read them.
[22:13] <newz2000> So do I understand correctly that you guys are preferring a look that has teasers instead of full stories on the homepage?
[22:13] <tyche> newz2000: That's MY opinion.
[22:13] <joey> tyche, how about this format? http://www.faz.net/s/homepage.html
[22:13] <newz2000> I'd call that a teaser
[22:14] <joey> k
[22:14] <tyche> Format for teasers, though I can't really read German, is good.  Format for the page doesn't meet the needs of the Fridge, I don't think.
[22:14] <joey> so I don't have a strong preference but I'd lean towards a dedicated column for articles and those articles had a 1 paragraph teaser in them
[22:15] <joey> s/in/for
[22:15] <tyche> Yep.  That sounds about right.
[22:15] <newz2000> and needs to accommodate sometimes having an image and sometimes not
[22:15] <joey> correct
[22:15] <joey> so, tyche and I seem to agree :-D
[22:16] <tyche> Oh, definitely.  But from my point of view, the addition of images is an "extra", rather than a default that has to be canceled out.
[22:16] <joey> agree there too
[22:16] <joey> maybe on 1/3 of the stories will have pics
[22:16] <tyche> joey: Of course (SCHLUUUUUURP).
[22:16] <tyche> Hee hee
[22:16] <tyche> You think it would be that high?
[22:16] <joey> previously no, but lately, I think
[22:17] <boredandblogging> pics aren't that hard, plenty of CC out there
[22:17] <tyche> Maybe.  I haven't seen that, myself.
[22:17] <newz2000> I might suggest using compfight to grab cc images
[22:18] <boredandblogging> yup
[22:18] <boredandblogging> hope my replies to the thread don't seem harsh
[22:18] <newz2000> so everyone likes sand and mercury, what about it would you like to see continued?
[22:19] <joey> newz2000, s/everyone/everyone but Joey who thinks it is pretty but too close to the Fridge theme/
[22:19] <joey> (not to be construed as a veto)
[22:20] <newz2000> well, everyone thought it worthy enough to mention. :-)
[22:20] <boredandblogging> i like the fact that it actually highlights a story, know I sound like a broken record about it
[22:20] <joey> yeah because it has pictures
[22:20] <joey> take away the pictures and it falls aparet
[22:20] <joey> apart
[22:20] <newz2000> boredandblogging: that black box at the top?
[22:20] <boredandblogging> newz2000: yes
[22:21]  * joey pulls them up again
[22:21] <newz2000> how often does the ubuntu community (fridge,uwn,etc) create original content that could be featured like this?
[22:21] <boredandblogging> we can choose to use it for the latest post or something specific if need be
[22:22] <joey> If we could combine some of the colour elements and highlighting from Sand with the format of In Progress, I'd find that quite pleasant to use
[22:23] <joey> the In progress mockup doesn't rely on pics
[22:23] <joey> which as tyche pointed out, we have little of
[22:24] <joey> if we always had pics, in progress falls apart
[22:24] <newz2000> I agree that's key
[22:24] <joey> in progress looks rather bland though due to lack of styling
[22:24] <joey> if we gave it a facelift it would be more appealing I think
[22:25] <joey> newz2000, could we ask those guys two things?
[22:25] <tyche> joey: you mean the Fridge in progress by MadsRH?
[22:25] <joey> newz2000, 1) do a 2nd mockup of Sand w/o most of the pictures
[22:25] <joey> tyche, yes sir
[22:25] <joey> newz2000, 2) see if we could get a little more "effect styling" to In progress?
[22:26] <joey> I don't know if they would be willing to do that
[22:26] <newz2000> I'll bet they would
[22:26] <joey> especially since we may not use their items
[22:26] <tyche> OK, That's not bad, but I see the problem of putting pictures in it.  It would overblow the "style" of the page.
[22:26] <joey> I'd like to see the sans-picture Sand mockup to prove to myself if it will fail with no pictures
[22:27] <joey> tyche, yeah so we'd only have the VIDEO picture and then a picture, maybe, with each teaser on the left column
[22:27] <joey> tyche, so, 2 stories max plus video
[22:27] <joey> that sound right?
[22:28] <newz2000> ok, will you guys be around for 20min or so? I think I might write this up and then pastebin it so you can check it out before I send it
[22:28] <joey> I will be
[22:29] <boredandblogging> should be
[22:29] <newz2000> ok, let me see if what I can pull together
[22:29] <tyche> Well, the  teaser for the UWN takes up a lot of space, at least the way johnc4510's been doing it, so far. I think there'd normally be room for 2 picture teasers or picture and non picture teasers.
[22:29] <tyche> Also, we don't always have Videos that would be advertised.
[22:29] <joey> I kinda feel like Sands and In Progress are on a see-saw.  One has too much, the other too little :-)
[22:30] <tyche> (And yes, I noticed WHICH one that person used.  Hee hee)
[22:30] <joey> right but that was part of the requirements that newz sent out to the team.
[22:30] <tyche> joey: Yes, there I'll agree with you.
[22:31] <tyche> However, I also like the idea of a plain (or at least graduated) single color background, like a paper was laying on a desk.  It makes it easier to scale for larger screens, without making one feel that something is missing.
[22:32] <joey> tyche, my fear of Sands is that if you go look at it now, and then remove the pictures, you'll see http://fridge.ubuntu.com/ as it is today :-)
[22:32] <tyche> What we did with azloco.com was to scale the middle area, so the columns remained the same size.  It works for us, but I don't think it would work for the Fridge.
[22:32] <joey> tyche, yeah I like that paper on the desk look too
[22:33] <tyche> joey: Good point.  But could we put a background around Fridge in progress?
[22:33] <joey> sure!
[22:33] <tyche> Other minor things, like "Latest headlines" being instead "Selected from the Planet"
[22:33] <joey> in fact, I hope so!
[22:34] <joey> oooh that's an interesting idea Craig
[22:34] <tyche> LOL
[22:35] <tyche> Well, isn't that where we usually get our headlines from?  The UWN does it by getting links from outside.  But the Fridge is more of an insider resource.
[22:35] <joey> Planet Poop
[22:35] <joey> er
[22:35] <joey> Planet Press
[22:35] <tyche> from the Planet.
[22:36] <joey> Fridge doesn't today but it could.  An "Overheard on the Planet".... column would be interesting
[22:36] <tyche> joey: I hope you realize that what we're suggesting would require a chief editor and at least one or two contributors to keep it flowing.
[22:36] <joey> so, I've been meaning to speak to you about that.....
[22:36]  * joey grins.
[22:37] <tyche> Which means that we'd have an internal organ and an external organ.  I'll let your imagination fill in the blanks.  Hee hee
[22:37] <newz2000> ok, while I catch up on what you've been discussing, read this and tell me what needs added: http://pastebin.com/d2577478
[22:38] <joey> tyche, so I had an idea for one of those boxes
[22:38] <joey> tyche, an automated google news search for the title of Ubuntu with a required word of Linux (to prevent sport stories)
[22:39] <joey> I have a feed URL but it is a mile long
[22:39] <joey> http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&as_scoring=r&as_maxm=4&q=ubuntu+linux&as_qdr=m&as_drrb=q&as_mind=4&as_minm=3&as_maxd=3&output=rss
[22:39] <newz2000> what would be cool is to feature cc licensed photos that embody the spirit or idea of Ubuntu on a weekly basis
[22:40] <tyche> joey: BTW, you DO realize that a "joey" is a type of clown, hence I don't take your grin as meaning anything.  So there!  Hee hee
[22:41] <joey> newz2000, 2 comments:  1) wtf! use paste.ubuntu.com :-)   2) the "in progress" comment might be a little contentious but I like it :-)
[22:41] <joey> tyche,  =)
[22:42] <tyche> newz2000: In general, I think you captured our thinking.
[22:42] <tyche> As to the CCed photos, that might be more difficult, but not impossible.
[22:42] <newz2000> yeah, a future idea
[22:43] <joey> newz2000, before you hit enter...
[22:43] <joey> tyche, boredandblogging -  question
[22:43] <tyche> joey: I tried something like that when I first started with the UWN, but the danged thing was useless.  It always came in on MONDAY.
[22:43] <joey> tyche, boredandblogging -  do you want the Fridge to be a) bright, colourful, and busy,  b) clean, colourful, and simple,  or  c) something else?
[22:44] <boredandblogging> how about a happy medium?
[22:44] <boredandblogging> :-P
[22:44] <joey> boredandblogging, sure... give me adjectives
[22:44] <newz2000> boredandblogging: no, you have to pick
[22:44] <joey> those creative guys love adjectives :-)
[22:45] <tyche> The basic structure should be clean, to allow someone to make more of it when necessary or applicable.  But it does need the color outside to differentiate "PAGE" from "BACKGROUND"
[22:45] <boredandblogging> i do prefer simple
[22:45] <tyche> simple, to my mind, equals clean.
[22:45] <tyche> It makes it easier to scan and read
[22:46] <joey> ok, so I hear  clear/simple as a winner as I agree there too
[22:46] <tyche> Busy detracts from the messages being delivered.
[22:46] <joey> boredandblogging, what about outside & background?
[22:46] <newz2000> I saw cool script that pulsed the background colour gradually through every shade in the rainbow
[22:46] <boredandblogging> i have no opinion about colors as long as its not grey
[22:47] <tyche> newz2000: That would be busy.
[22:47] <boredandblogging> not really
[22:47] <joey> ok, I agree with tyche  that we should try a mockup of differentiation of page vs background
[22:47] <newz2000> I was kidding. (well, I have seen it but I'm not really suggesting we use it)
[22:47] <tyche> I agree with boredandblogging, but would say colors instead of pastell.  Using a graduated background would be fine, too.
[22:48] <joey> I agree with not grey :-)  You too tyche?
[22:48] <tyche> Yep
[22:48] <joey> ok, 3 things we agree on them
[22:48] <joey> er then
[22:48] <joey> er right
[22:48] <tyche> I also think it should be outside the "standard" Ubuntu colors.
[22:48] <joey> hmm, so explain that a little more tyche
[22:48]  * newz2000 needs to get clarification on this
[22:49] <tyche> Some cool color, such as blue or green, not the tan/orange of Ubuntu.  There can be such a thing as too much of a good thing.
[22:49] <joey> newz2000, we agree so far on a) not grey, b) clear/simple, c) colours not pastels, d) differentiation of page vs background
[22:49] <joey> for a mockup
[22:49] <tyche> Leave the Ubuntu colors to the Ubuntu.com pages
[22:49] <newz2000> ok, so does twitter's homepage do this? (except for the pastel part) http://twitter.com/
[22:50] <joey> tyche, so I think I'm not with you on this one.
[22:50] <joey> tyche, I'd rather have more white than colour
[22:50] <joey> tyche, more google vs over zealous ubuntu brown
[22:50] <tyche> Hmmm.  Maybe, depending on how the "watermark" was done.
[22:51] <tyche> joey: I'm talking just about the background.  That's the area that would be scaled into or out of, depending on the size of the individual's screen and resolution.
[22:52] <joey> tyche, more zoozimps than Sunset (to use a gmail theme example)
[22:52] <joey> tyche, ah I see
[22:52] <tyche> For example, I'm running a 1440 X 900 screen.  The colored background simply means "OK, I don't need to look there."
[22:52] <joey> yeah, same here
[22:52] <joey> same screen size even on my work computer
[22:53] <joey> I'd rather the background be subdued
[22:53] <tyche> But on a 1024 X 768 screen, that area would be reduced, but the main page would appear to be the same as the 1440 X 900
[22:53] <joey> I find with very bright backgrounds (newz - like the canonical wiki) that my eyes cross and start bleeding
[22:53] <tyche> Yep, subdued is possible (just add more black, and cut the value of the color)
[22:54] <joey> tyche, you don't like the brownish slate currently on ubuntu.com ?
[22:54] <tyche> I think it's fine for ubuntu.com.  I think the Fridge should be different from it, though.
[22:55] <tyche> I'd even go with a brushed steel look
[22:56] <joey> hmm we may not agree on that one. I'm more an apple style guy vs a microsoft style guy
[22:56] <tyche> brushed steel does not equal grey.  Brushed steel is actually (graphically) a combination of thin white and black lines, vertically.
[22:57] <newz2000> joey: ok, so not grey, coloured. But not pastel and don't make your eyes bleed.
[22:58] <tyche> Another color is raw sienna, done as a graduated top to bottom
[22:58] <joey> newz2000, do we have a new background planed for jaunty?
[22:58] <newz2000> for the desktop or the web-page?
[22:58] <newz2000> desktop: yes, two, website: no
[22:58] <joey> newz2000, web
[22:59] <newz2000> no change. There'll be a homepage banner again.
[22:59] <joey> you know tyche and boredandblogging, I actually find the newer moz header quite nice. What do you think?  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/9584
[22:59]  * newz2000 pretends joey didn't just say that
[23:00]  * joey laughs.
[23:00] <joey> How about a Nokia beta blue tyche?  http://betalabs.nokia.com/
[23:00]  * tyche joins newz2000 in ignoring joey's comment.
[23:00] <joey> newz2000, do you think we could change the web background?
[23:00] <joey> newz2000, or would it meet with resistance?
[23:00] <newz2000> you mean change the fridge theme's background periodically?
[23:01] <tyche> joey: The nokia one is interesting, and an example of what I meant by graduated.
[23:01] <joey> newz2000, no... just something different from the current Ubuntu one. I'm wondering if someone in Marketing or Mark would get upset
[23:02] <newz2000> for the fridge or for ubuntu.com?
[23:02] <tyche> (Yea, I know.  I'm back to sucking up to the boss)
[23:02] <joey> tyche, you know, I really like the ovi look.  e.g.  https://mail.ovi.com/playr/login
[23:02] <joey> newz2000, fridge
[23:02] <newz2000> no one will mind
[23:02] <tyche> Ovi = too much white on white.
[23:03]  * joey nods at both of you. :-)
[23:03] <tyche> Too much like Mondrian
[23:03] <joey> so newz2000, how about with that email and the adjectives above... you include a prompting for a different low-key background
[23:04] <tyche> joey: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mondrian_Comp10.jpg
[23:04] <newz2000> low-key?
[23:04] <newz2000> oh, I thought you were saying the opposite
[23:05] <joey> newz2000, by low-key I mean somewhere between bright orange bleeding eyes and mud shale ubuntu.com
[23:05]  * joey grins.
[23:05] <newz2000> ok
[23:05] <newz2000> is a texture / image / gradient good or bad?
[23:05]  * joey looks at tyche and boredandblogging 
[23:05] <joey> um. Dunno for me. I'm open for mockups
[23:06] <tyche> A background should be exactly that:  Something that falls into the background and doesn't detract from the main interest - in this case, the Fridge
[23:06] <newz2000> ok
[23:06]  * joey admits to be partial to Novel/Suse green
[23:06] <tyche> newz2000: Texture, done right, is good.  Gradient is good.  Image is POSSIBLY bad
[23:07] <joey> yeah, depends on the image4
[23:07] <newz2000> how about this? (NSFW) from ubuntu calendar? http://www.marcus-fischer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ubuntu-calendar-march1.jpg
[23:07] <newz2000> oh, right, it has the ubuntu brown so it won't work
[23:08] <joey> right but his website might work  http://www.marcus-fischer.com/
[23:08] <joey> look at that background tyche
[23:08] <tyche> Well, you might also get some flak from Ubuntu-Women
[23:08] <tyche> That is nicely done
[23:09] <tyche> The drop-shadow works, too.
[23:09] <joey> yeah, love the drop shadow
[23:09] <joey> look at how he's bowed the top here:  http://www.marcus-fischer.com/?page_id=2
[23:10] <joey> err, well, the whole site I guess
[23:10] <joey> I didn't notice until just now :-D
[23:10] <tyche> Yep.  He's got two things going at the same time.  The graduated background, and the highlights and drop shadow from where he places his light source.
[23:11] <tyche> And he carries that over into the upper band of the "page", by showing where the light source is.
[23:12] <newz2000> ok, that's it. No more feedback.
[23:13] <tyche> For a physics student at the University of Hamburg, he shows remarkable ability in graphic design.
[23:13] <newz2000> I'm going to get this ready and pastebin for one more review.
[23:13] <newz2000> 2min
[23:13] <newz2000> (that could be a stock wordpress theme)
[23:13] <tyche> Then SOMEONE has VERY good taste
[23:14] <newz2000> I agree, that is remarkably good
[23:14] <tyche> That sort of thing is plain, but makes a statement at the same time.
[23:15] <newz2000> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/143732/
[23:16] <newz2000> I need to add something there about avoiding ubuntu title font and over-styling the text.
[23:18] <joey> newz2000, just missing one thing
[23:18] <joey> newz2000, a big thanks to everyone from the Fridge team
[23:18] <newz2000> good plan
[23:19] <joey> newz2000, maybe "put together a new plan" could be "put together a new plan or revise an existing one"
[23:19] <tyche> Looks good, especially with joey's addition.
[23:20] <newz2000> ok, got it
[23:20] <newz2000> I'll send and copy the news team
[23:22] <tyche> joey: RE: " [14:36] <joey> so, I've been meaning to speak to you about that....."  So, what did you want?
[23:23] <joey> nothing but to harass you :-)
[23:23] <tyche> Ah.  OK.  NP
[23:23] <tyche> I stand harassed.   Hee hee
[23:25] <joey> newz2000, one more thing..
[23:25] <joey> newz2000, thank you very very much for your help!
[23:25] <newz2000> my pleasure
[23:25] <tyche> BTW, as a follow up to my follow up comment to that:  I was once told, "It takes a wise man to play a fool."  This was told to me by the head of Clown Alley for Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Baily Combined Shows, Inc.
[23:25] <joey> I'm sure boredandblogging and tyche would agree
[23:25] <tyche> Yep.  Definitely.
[23:25] <newz2000> sometimes getting other people to do work is more fun than doing it yourself
[23:26] <tyche> newz2000: Ah, yes.  Delegation of authority by a lazy man.  Hee hee
[23:26] <newz2000> lazy? Its easier just to do it yourself.
[23:26] <newz2000> :-)
[23:26] <tyche> I Heartily approve.  LOL
[23:30] <joey> tyche, why do I get the feeling you delegated all of your work and you just pretend to be retired now? :-)
[23:33] <tyche> Nope.  I actually retired.  But before I left, I tried to have everyone up to speed on the idea of sharing ideas and ways of "short-cutting" the work without sacrificing quality.  Some of it actually managed to carry over, after I left.
[23:33] <joey> ah ha! I see.
[23:33] <tyche> However, I'll admit to being a lazy man.  I work VERY HARD at being lazy.
[23:34] <joey> Does anyone know if my email about the sun shipping Ubuntu laptops made it to the news list or did I send it to the wrong place again?
[23:34] <tyche> It's on the Ubuntu-news-team list.
[23:34] <tyche> I get it as a digest
[23:35] <joey> ok good. :-) I'll wait to see if anyone wants to do it before I do
[23:37] <tyche> newz2000: Your post just hit the mailing list.  Looks good.
[23:37] <newz2000> cool
[23:37] <newz2000> I think I'm going to go eat some dinner
[23:37] <newz2000> catch you later gang
[23:37] <tyche> Enjoy