[09:52] <mdke> we really need to sort out the ridiculous build time of ubuntu-docs
[09:52] <mdke> 2 hours is beyond a joke
[10:55] <mdke> excellent, found a way to do that
[14:29] <nhandler> Hi, I'm trying to fix Bug #285173, but I am having a hard time finding that section of the documentation. grep'ing the documentation as well as searching using yelp and the web interface turned up nothing. Did this section get modified/deleted, or am I doing something wrong?
[14:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 285173 in gnome-user-docs "Wrong Information in "Taking Screenshots" help" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285173
[14:29] <nhandler> Oh wait, I missed the part about gnome-user-docs ;)
[14:29] <mdke> heh
[14:30]  * nhandler thought he had LP only displaying ubuntu-doc bugs
[14:30] <mdke> nhandler: ideal way to fix that one is to do a patch which can go upstream too
[14:31] <mdke> nhandler: if you grab lp:gnome-user-docs, that is a bzr import of upstream svn so you can do a patch on that if you like and send it upstream
[14:40] <Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , i did some work on the RootSudo page last night following discussion a few weeks ago
[14:40] <mdke> hiya Rocket2DMn
[14:40] <Rocket2DMn> reorg-ed some stuff and made some of the existing warnings bold and oclored
[14:41] <Rocket2DMn> I plan on going back later to add more details on actually configuring sudo, like for fine-grained control
[14:42] <Rocket2DMn> Is there anything specific you would like to see done to the page mdke ?
[14:44] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: in the "enabling root account" bit, it says "Use at your own risk" but doesn't explain what those risks are
[14:44] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: maybe that could be clearer
[14:45] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, I'll see what I can pull together.  Maybe we need section in there just called Downsides of using root, like we have for sudo above
[14:46] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: possibly
[14:47] <Rocket2DMn> I think the document does still need some reorganizing, I may make a subpage entirely geared toward configuring sudoers, and leaving this base page to primarily explain differences in root and sudo, etc
[14:47] <Rocket2DMn> Do you agree?
[14:47] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: that sounds sensible
[14:48] <j1mc> hi all
[14:48] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , i'll start on that within the next few weeks, possibly even this weekend
[14:48] <mdke> :)
[14:48] <mdke> hi j1mc
[14:49] <Rocket2DMn> I'm also looking for more feedback on the MythTV email I sent out last night, there are SO many pages
[14:49] <Rocket2DMn> Maybe there is a contact who organizes them that we could talk to
[14:49] <Rocket2DMn> hi j1mc
[14:50] <mdke> probably the mythbuntu team could help
[14:50] <j1mc> i know mario limonciello, who i think is still pretty involved with mythbuntu.
[14:50] <j1mc> i can talk with him about this
[14:50] <mdke> yes he is
[14:50] <Rocket2DMn> that would be great j1mc
[14:51] <Rocket2DMn> I tend to think that just flat out deleting them is a good option, but I know that doesn't fly too well with most people :)
[14:52] <mdke> some attempt should probably be made to consolidate material
[14:52] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, I agree, unfortuntaly I don't see pages specific to Hardy and Intrepid really
[14:52] <mdke> unless there is no useful stuff there of course
[14:53] <Rocket2DMn> if those existed alongside the outdated ones, then I wouldn't feel so bad
[14:59] <j1mc> mdke: i think omf files are you used by yelp, correct?  they can be safely removed from xubuntu-docs?
[15:06] <mdke> j1mc: correct, provided that xubuntu-docs doesn't use yelp :)
[15:09] <j1mc> that is the joke that is not funny, but we laugh anyway. :)  no, xubuntu docs do not use yelp.
[15:10] <nhandler> mdke: Where should I send the gnome-user-docs patch? The upstream bug tracker? Or do they have a VCS that I should use?
[15:12] <mdke> nhandler: bug tracker is the best option so it doesn't get lost
[15:12] <mdke> j1mc: ok, then you can remove them
[15:25] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, I'm gonna try my hand at fixing a bug - bug 243797 for hardy
[15:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 243797 in ubuntu-docs "Networking troubleshooting docs refer to non-existent menu entry" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243797
[15:44] <Rocket2DMn> hey, when you refer to a program under System->Administration and you use something like (&device-manager;) to refer to it, where is the list of those items stored?
[15:47] <Rocket2DMn> nvm i think i found it
[15:55] <Rocket2DMn> I'm a little confused though - why are there more html files in the build than xml files?
[15:56] <Rocket2DMn> the xml i am trying to edit is hardy/ubuntu/internet/C/wireless.xml but the page in the build where i see the problem is troubleshooting.html
[18:34] <Rocket2DMn> How do I get my local copy from the repository up to date?  For example, in my Intrepid copy I'm stuck at revision 138 while 141 is the latest.
[18:35] <Rocket2DMn> update and merge don't seem to do the trick
[18:35] <Rocket2DMn> and my ubunt-doc is still pointing at jaunty rather than karmic
[18:38] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: have you bound your branch to the bzr repo?
[18:38] <Rocket2DMn> i followed the directions on the wiki when is et it up
[18:38] <Rocket2DMn> i re-downaloded the ubuntu-doc branch so it should be good now, but intrepid is still outdated i guess
[18:38] <Rocket2DMn> connor@compy686:~/ubuntu_bzr/intrepid$ bzr update
[18:38] <Rocket2DMn> Tree is up to date at revision 138.
[18:39] <Rocket2DMn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/144324/
[18:39] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: maybe go to the root of your intrepid branch, and enter "bzr bind lp:ubuntu-doc/intrepid"
[18:40] <j1mc> then bzr update
[18:40] <Rocket2DMn> ok, i'll give that a go
[18:40] <Rocket2DMn> ah cool, that seems to have worked, do i need to merge as well?
[18:41] <j1mc> no, bzr update will always merge in changes from the branch
[18:42] <Rocket2DMn> ok, so if i have changes that i have made, they will be overwritten?
[18:42] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i recommend that you use "bzr bind" on all of your doc branches
[18:43] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, doing that right now j1mc , that isnt a command i saw on the wiki, perhaps it should be added
[18:43] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: you can use "bzr status" to check on all of your changes.  if you try to update, but you have uncommitted changes, it will let you know.
[18:43] <Rocket2DMn> do you have to do that every time the development docs move to the next release?
[18:46] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: if you want to use the same folder when you switch from jaunty to karmic, you would need to do "bzr unbind"
[18:46] <j1mc> i think... ?
[18:46] <j1mc> not sure :)
[18:47] <Rocket2DMn> hmm well for bug 243797 i made a local revision to wireless.xml in hardy
[18:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 243797 in ubuntu-docs "Networking troubleshooting docs refer to non-existent menu entry" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243797
[18:48] <superm1> hi guys. j1mc pointed me at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-April/012593.html .i'll repost what i just said in another channel:
[18:48] <Rocket2DMn> i update the branch and even did merge, but its not getting the old version of the file
[18:48] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: superm1 just joined - you can talk to him about the mythbuntu docs
[18:48] <Rocket2DMn> hi superm1 , that was me
 j1mc, hmm.  forgot about all those old pages.  i suspect people still do link around every so often, so i think the best thing to do is to centralize around the latest version, but don't hardcode it in the URL
 that way it can be updated regularly
[18:49] <superm1> although it would be especially nice if there was a hit counter on pages so we could affirm that
[18:49] <Rocket2DMn> superm1, in the past we have deleted pages that were specific to unsupported version, but there are just so many of these...
[18:50] <superm1> Rocket2DMn, so how about adding a header to the tops of them that they will be deleted soon as a warning
[18:50] <superm1> and then wait a few weeks and delete them
[18:50] <Rocket2DMn> well, we have a Tag that marks pages as Candidates for Deletion
[18:51] <Rocket2DMn> i tagged a couple of pages as Unsupported Version
[18:51] <Rocket2DMn> until i realized how many there are
[18:53] <Rocket2DMn> superm1, do you still maintain MythTV pages on the community docs?  I don't see many pages specific to supported versions like Hardy or Intrepid
[18:53] <superm1> yeah we stopped actively maintaining them ourselves personally in favor of a PDF that gets released with different mythbuntu versions
[18:53] <superm1> it's been easier to keep updated
[18:54] <superm1> I'm not sure what other community folk have done with the pages tho
[18:54] <Rocket2DMn> there all sorts of pages there, not just version specific (at least in title)
[18:55] <Rocket2DMn> Since Gutsy is reaching EOL, I was going to suggest just dealing with all the Edgy, Feisty, and Gutsy pages at once
[18:55] <superm1> yeah that seems fine to me
[18:55] <superm1> if someone came in #ubuntu-mythtv asking about an old release, we wouldnt help them anyhow and instead point them at a newer release or the forums
[18:56] <Rocket2DMn> we don't support old releases on the forums either
[18:57] <Rocket2DMn> Ok superm1 , so you don't have a problem with removing the pages from the community docs then?
[18:58] <superm1> yeah that should be fine as long as the releases are EOL
[18:58] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, it's almost a shame, some of those pages are beautiful, but they arent supported anymore
[18:58] <nhandler> mdke: Shouldn't we have a lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic branch now?
[19:00] <Rocket2DMn> j1mc, are you still here?
[19:10] <superm1> Rocket2DMn, could you maybe make new pages with the old content and add a header that they need to be updated/
[19:10] <superm1> like new pages that don't specify the version in them
[19:11] <Rocket2DMn> superm1, I'm not sure exactly how you have them organized, there are honestly like 100 pages
[19:11] <Rocket2DMn> lots of stuff under MythTV/Install
[19:12] <Rocket2DMn> with /Server and /Live as subpages of those
[19:12] <Rocket2DMn> and a whole host of child pages there, see - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex
[19:14] <Rocket2DMn> How much info do you plan on keeping on the wiki?
[19:24] <superm1> i think the thing is a lot of pages include other pages
[19:31] <Rocket2DMn> agreed superm1 , i had noticed that
[19:32] <Rocket2DMn> When pages get deleted, we remove all links to them first
[19:32] <Rocket2DMn> I'm sure some of those pages are not your official pages, but if you know which ones are/were, we can start with those
[19:33] <Rocket2DMn> Perhaps you could get your volunteers to spend time on the pages, since I don't really know anything about MythTV.  If the community can decide which pages are absolutely no longer needed, they can delete the contents and tag them for Deletion
[19:38] <superm1> well i think the best thing to do would be post in the mythbuntu forum looking for help to clean up
[19:40] <Rocket2DMn> i see you have lots of stickies in there already :)
[19:41] <Rocket2DMn> superm1, would you like time to discuss with your team how best do proceed with coordinating your documentation efforts?
[19:42] <Rocket2DMn> Once you decide how you're going to approach the task, I'd be happy to help you with removing pages
[19:42] <Rocket2DMn> I think it is best if you pull all the info you desire from existing pages, and then mark the pages for Deletion using the Candidate for Deletion tag
[19:42] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
[19:43] <Rocket2DMn> Pages that are to be deleted can't be Included by other pages, and wiki links to that page should be removed
[20:19] <mdke> nhandler: yes
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, when you get a few minutes, i uploaded patches to a few bugs
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> would you mind reviewing them and checking that I did them correctly?
[20:26] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, I'm having a look
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> cool, thanks
[20:27] <mdke> they look fine
[20:27] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: i guess you checked the photo program against the actual software?
[20:29] <Rocket2DMn> i downloaded the program in jaunty and looked
[20:30] <mdke> great
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> I don't know if any of those other bugs want to have SRUs
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> well i guess one already is
[20:32] <mdke> hmm
[20:32] <mdke> the musicvideophotos patch doesn't work
[20:33] <mdke> how did you make it?
[20:33] <Rocket2DMn> hm maybe my local branch was outdated, hold up
[20:33] <Rocket2DMn> i was having issues earlier
[20:34] <mdke> were you using the karmic branch?
[20:35] <Rocket2DMn> since i made tha tpatch i redownloaded the development branch
[20:35] <Rocket2DMn> i think it may hav ebeen stuck on jaunty
[20:35] <Rocket2DMn> i
[20:35] <Rocket2DMn> ill redo it
[20:36] <mdke> I think you may have done it on the hardy branch
[20:36] <mdke> because musicvideophotos.xml in jaunty and karmic doesn't have the relevant section, it's in photos.xml now
[20:36] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i see stuff got re-orged
[20:38] <Rocket2DMn> if it's even still applicable...
[20:38] <mdke> should be, the bug was reported on the basis of jaunty I think
[20:38] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i quick grep for one of those phrases didnt find it though
[20:39] <Rocket2DMn> ah there is is
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> is the patch i uploaded applicable to the existing jaunty docs?
[20:40] <mdke> no
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> hm weird
[20:40] <mdke> you've edited musicvideophotos.xml, but in Jaunty that file is empty
[20:40] <mdke> it only includes other files
[20:41] <mdke> that's why I say you must have been working on hardy
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/144416/
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> is that better?
[20:45] <mdke> looks like it will work
[20:45] <Rocket2DMn> that is for karmic
[20:45] <Rocket2DMn> does it work for jaunty, too? i havent checked
[20:46] <mdke> that works on karmic
[20:46] <Rocket2DMn> after i make changes, how do i overwrite them with what is in the repository?  When I merge it says nothing to do, but status shows 2 files that i've worke don
[20:46] <Rocket2DMn> if i merge --force, will it overwrite my changes?
[20:48] <Rocket2DMn> apparently not
[20:48] <mdke> you can revert changes made by you with "bzr revert"
[20:49] <Rocket2DMn> ah, sweet, thanks
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> lol mdke , my last name is Imes, not Ines :)
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> no worries
[21:11] <nhandler> :)
[21:11] <Rocket2DMn> nice catch nhandler , i never wouldve noticed
[21:24] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: whoops