=== maco_ is now known as maco
bryce_heya cwillu06:01
cwillupoke poek06:01
bryce_cwillu: with -intel bug triaging, the name of the game for us is getting bugs upstreamed to Intel06:01
bryce_we fix _some_ bugs in Ubuntu but the vast bulk are fixed upstream, and we cherrypick the patches into Ubuntu06:02
bryce_of course, hardly anyone reports bugs to us in a form that we can upstream, so it usually takes some work on our part to massage them into shape, getting the requisite info, etc.06:03
bryce_cwillu: the page to bookmark is http://intellinuxgraphics.org/how_to_report_bug.html06:04
cwillugot it06:05
bryce_I've been developing some automated scripts that help in gathering or requesting the info, but some reporters really need human help06:06
* cwillu is composing notes in the background, please keep the info dump going :)06:06
bryce_ah ok :-)06:06
bryce_what else...06:07
bryce_you may want to join the ubuntu-x@ mailing list as well; quite low traffic but I try to announce stuff there and we sometimes have useful discussions06:07
cwilluif I start adding tags to bugs in a private namespace, are they likely to remain there, at least for a week or so?06:08
bryce_we also have a team set up in launchpad - https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat06:08
bryce_private namespace?06:09
cwillu(cwillu-foo, cwillu-bar)06:09
bryce_ahh, yeah feel free to add tags06:09
cwillumainly so I don't trip on other stuff by accident06:09
cwilluI was planning on opening umbrella bugs per-chipset, linked to newly opened bugs for each unique symptom that I can see.  06:10
bryce_btw, if you join the ubuntu-x-swat list, one important caveat is that it subscribes you to the bug mail - roughly 100 mails per day06:10
bryce_so if you do that make sure you have procmail or something to filter those out.  I'd be happy to share my procmail rules if you use it06:11
cwilluI think a good portion of the deluge comes from people posting to the first bug they find with a similar symptom, so "intel video hangs" gets all the traffic even if it's an 810 bug06:11
bryce_being a member of the team enables you to set states Triaged and Wontfix, set priorities, etc.06:11
cwillubryce, I'm addicted to gmail :p06:11
bryce_indeed, you're absolutely right.  "driver performance regression" would be another good subjectline if you wanted to cause a me-too storm ;-)06:12
bryce_I try to always update bug titles when I see ones that just describe a generic symptom06:12
bryce_it helps head off confirmation hell06:13
bryce_regarding tagging of chipsets, one thing I've been doing is prepending bug titles with chipset names, [i845], etc.06:14
cwilluyep, that was my inspiration actually :)06:14
bryce_I think people used to use tags for the same purpose, but an advantage to the subject lines is that it helps mitigate me-too'ing06:14
cwilluUmbrella bug per chipset, and then nice fresh bugs with the chipset in the title, a list of similar but different bugs in the summary, exhortations to verify the chipset and simple instructions to do so06:15
bryce_as well, even mroe importantly, it's the format upstream likes to have when we upstream the bugs06:15
cwillubasically, a couple hundred words of boilerplate, to make it easy on the lazy bug reporters06:15
bryce_sounds interesting06:15
cwilluis that counterproductive re: upstreaming those bugs?  (I'm imaging that the boiler plate can be stripped easily enough)06:15
bryce_dunno, I'd need to see it in action.  Willing to give anything a shot that helps us get more organized06:16
cwilluI guess if I get a start on this over the weekend, I probably won't be tripping over too much concurrent activity on launchpad06:16
cwilluI'll avoid marking any of the old bugs as duplicates until it's clear if it's a win or not06:17
cwillu(are duplicated bugs hidden from searching-by-tag by default as well?)06:18
cwilluthis would also be one of those days I regret not having my wiki up and running06:23
cwillumy schemes -> http://pastebin.com/f5600578c06:23
cwilluis there any need to drill down to the particular revision, or is the general chipset enough?06:28
bryce_when you go through bugs you'll note the format I've been trying to use, basically separating standard sections via [lspci], [testcase], etc.06:29
cwillugod I hope they get that ext4 mess sorted out quick06:30
bryce_especially when upstreaming bugs I like to have the top of the bug report be a very brief [problem] statement, no more than 1-3 sentences, so people can quickly skim it06:30
cwilluTime for bed now, I should be getting started in ~10 hours or so06:31
cwilluThanks for the info :)06:31
bryce_regarding the particular revision...  in the subjectline I tend to keep it just to the family, but in the [lspci] section it is good to be more specific06:31
bryce_sure, cya later :-)06:32
cwilludon't know if you want to mention anything on the mailing list, I probably won't be bothering to subscribe to it until I'm thoroughly sick of sifting through launchpad sometime tomorrow :p06:33
bryce_ok, I'll wait 'til you make introductions06:36
tjaaltonbryce_: looks like the glxinfo crashers all had nvidia in NonfreeKernelModules, so -> nvidia-glx-180 :)07:00
tjaaltonmoving them right now07:01
bryce_tjaalton: odd, I was just looking at nvidia bug replies07:01
tjaaltonalso, there are a couple of intel regressions, suggesting that the most recent version doesn't work for everyone07:01
tjaaltonfiled against xorg07:01
bryce_looks like a handful of people followed through on my request to test + close -180 bugs.  Was hoping to see more, but at least it's something07:01
* bryce_ looks07:02
tjaaltonthese were filed against mesa07:02
bryce_which bug #'s?07:04
bryce_none of the new bugs in xorg look due to today's updates...07:05
tjaaltonok that was the only one I guess07:08
bryce_nx6110 sounds familiar...07:09
bryce_hmm, well if he truly has narrowed it to 2:2.6.3-0ubuntu4 or ubuntu3, the only change in those that looks reasonably questionable is 118_drop_legacy3d.patch07:11
bryce_./debian/changelog:  * 25_quirks_nx6110.patch:07:12
tjaaltonhmm bug 354889 looks related07:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 354889 in xorg "[jaunty] i845 xorg crashes upon playing video" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/35488907:13
tjaaltonfound a dupe for steve's bug07:16
bryce_how related?07:24
tjaaltonsame error message07:25
bryce_I've run across a bunch of "crash on playing video" bugs.  We need to report those upstream07:25
tjaaltonduped them already07:26
bryce_man, that bit of code to put the error into the dialog has turned out way more useful than I'd anticipated :-)07:26
Alexia_Deathbryce: that was a truly inspired idea.07:30
bryce_grep ftw07:30
* Alexia_Death hates having to do that manually when something fails07:31
Alexia_DeathNow, if crash log would not get overwritten if you log in again for random crashes...07:32
bryce_Alexia_Death: it should not get overwritten07:32
bryce_Alexia_Death: I made sure the failsafe log gets written to Xorg.failsafe.log instead07:32
Alexia_Deathfailsafe yes07:32
bryce_Alexia_Death: also the Xorg.0.log.old should still contain the prior crash07:32
Alexia_Deathbut say my X crashes but theres no need or failsafe07:33
Alexia_DeathX can start normally07:33
Alexia_Deathgreeter loads just fine and I log in07:33
bryce_crash should still be in the Xorg.0.log.old07:33
Alexia_DeathAfter I log in the crash log is gone.07:33
Alexia_Deathno. its gone.07:34
bryce_are you sure?07:34
Alexia_Deaththe greeter log is in the .old07:34
bryce_it's been there for me...07:34
Alexia_DeathI havent needed it in  the past few months but before that when tablet still crashed X I needed to keep a console session to coppy the log before it was lost07:35
Alexia_Deathits a sort of thing you only need when things go wrong  with X configured right...07:36
bryce_Alexia_Death: ok, well 274870 covers this situation07:36
bryce_http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=503251 - forwarded to debian, but no response so far afaik07:37
ubottuDebian bug 503251 in xorg-server "xorg-server: Xorg should keep more rotated logs" [Wishlist,Open]07:37
tjaaltonAlexia_Death: the wacom hotplug patches are now upstream :)07:37
tjaaltonin 0.8.3-207:38
bryce_(and I'm open to alternate ideas || patches)07:38
tjaaltonand builtin serial devices should work OOTB07:38
Alexia_Deathtjaalton: Indeed:D07:38
Alexia_Deathbryce: yes, that covers it:)07:38
Alexia_Deathtjaalton: how was that done?07:39
Alexia_DeathMy daemon has serial devices description file. I use an usb Serial tablet07:40
tjaaltonAlexia_Death: with a hal callout program that feeds the parameters to the xserver/driver07:40
Alexia_Deathtjaalton: sounds sensible:)07:41
tjaalton"usb serial tablet"07:41
tjaaltonhow's that possible :)07:41
Alexia_Deathusb->serail adapter+ serial tablet:)07:42
tjaaltonhow the hll is lp karma counted these days? yesterday or the day before mine was around 16k and now it's over 50k..07:50
RAOFHm.  We may need to pull in a patch to update libdrm-nouveau.  Let's see...07:51
bryce_tjaalton: I heard there was some inflation in translation karma07:52
tjaaltoni wonder if there's a "my sister runs ubuntu" team..07:52
tjaaltonbryce_: haven't done those ;)07:52
tjaaltonoh, soyuz07:52
tjaalton35k from there07:52
bryce_tjaalton: btw, cwillu suggested some of these random unexplained lockups might be due to the ext4 fallout07:55
bryce_(bug #330824)07:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 330824 in linux "Soft lockups (freezes) when deleting files from ext4 partitions on 2.6.28" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33082407:56
RAOFOw.  Everyone's favourite not-quite-stable filesystem!07:56
tjaaltonI'll switch to btrfs once karmic opens ;)07:58
tjaaltonwho cares if it can't handle full disks07:59
tjaaltondisks are cheap07:59
bryce_I wonder if there's any way we can easily determine what filesystem they have installed?08:00
sbeattieinstalled or mounted? cat /proc/mounts will tell you what fs types are mounted08:04
tjaaltonthe problem is (reliably) determining where $HOME is08:04
tjaaltonunder / or /home or linked somewhere08:05
bryce_I'll add /proc/mounts to our apport08:05
sbeattieooh, mount -t ext4 will tell you if any of the fielsystems are ext4.08:06
sbeattiehrm, what does stat -f /path say on an ext4 system? 08:09
* sbeattie wiped all his test ext4 partitions after getting bit by data loss.08:10
bryce_    try:08:11
bryce_        script = subprocess.Popen(['mount', '-t', 'ext4'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE)08:11
bryce_        matches = script.communicate()[0]08:11
bryce_        if (matches):08:11
bryce_            report['ext4'] = matches08:11
bryce_    except OSError:08:11
bryce_        pass08:11
bryce_look good?08:11
tjaaltonsbeattie: Type: ext2/ext308:11
sbeattieah, bummer. time to file a bug on stat08:11
tjaaltonjcristau: should the rgb.txt-file be revived? there seem to be a number of client apps that still want it08:13
tjaaltonsome of them proprietary08:14
bryce_I ought to write an automatic script to reply to bugs with "randomly" in the subject ;-)08:31
RAOFHm.  I think we should pull in the recent changes to libdrm/nouveau.  Does anyone have any particular comments or questions about this?08:35
bryce_RAOF, yes what are the recent changes?  Are they feature additions or bug fixes?  How well tested are the changes?  Are there specific bugs in launchpad that they are likely to resolve?08:37
RAOFSo, it's difficult to say whether the changes are bugfix or new features.  There are things which certainly are bugfixes.  Fixing a memory leak, cleaning up typos.08:41
bryce_given that we're a week away from release, how comfortable are you with that uncertainty?08:42
bryce_(fwiw, I am struggling with -intel fixes that are *definitely* bug fixes, yet apparently cause regressions... aargh!)08:43
* wgrant makes it 2.5 weeks, not 1.08:43
RAOFI'm not entirely sure; this depends on precisely what xserver-xorg-video-nouveau is doing in Jaunty.  If it's predominantly for testing, then I'd be uncomfortable with not shipping the changes; their lack definitely generates an error in the driver, but I'm not sure whether anything actually _hits_ that path.08:45
bryce_wgrant: well, post April 9th we shouldn't be making any changes08:45
wgrantbryce_: That's true.08:45
* bryce_ s/release/end of development/08:46
bryce_wtf is up with wiki.ubuntu.com tonight?08:47
wgrantIt's not very up.08:47
RAOFWell, actually, I am sure that something hits that path; mesa.  DRI is definitely broken because we don't have the changes in libdrm-nouveau, but that's really neither here nor there.  I'm not sure whether anything _else_ hits it.08:47
bryce_RAOF: personally I consider it predominantly for testing, and will back you up 100% on that.08:48
bryce_RAOF: but ultimately it's up to you -- if the changes cause regressions you'll want to have a plan on if, and how to deal with them.  08:49
RAOFWorst case we can simply disable the patch.  That'll take things back to their current, apparently working fine, state.08:51
* bryce_ nods08:51
bryce_make sure to solicit testing feedback in that case08:51
bryce_disabling patches pre-release is not too difficult, but post release can require a lot of annoying paperwork08:52
bryce_fwiw, I'm really happy with -nouveau's state in jaunty, it is exceeding where I'd expected of it to be development-wise08:54
bryce_similarly with -ati.  I think our open source story on both nvidia and ati hardware is notable08:55
RAOFIt's very nice that 2D is quite drama-free.08:55
bryce_Intel, however, is not meeting what I had anticipated in jaunty.08:55
bryce_but still there's time08:56
RAOFIntel has been somewhat of a problem child this release, hasn't it.08:56
RAOFAlthough that might also be due to lack of testing; we've only had... 6 bugs reported against the nouveau stack in total?08:56
bryce_could be08:56
bryce_certainly no shortage of bug reports against nvidia -18008:56
bryce_RAOF: I'd put a "we're not accepting bug reports against -nouveau" statement in the bug tracker for -nouvea at the start of jaunty08:57
bryce_that may be cutting down on bug reports a bit.  I should probably pull that out (assuming you're interested in bug reports)08:57
RAOFI'm moderately interested, but the bugs will be less and less interesting the older Jaunty's snapshot gets.08:58
RAOFI know that Jaunty's nouveau package has so far resulted in at least one bug being filed upstream and fixed, though.  So that's good :)08:59
bryce_my plan has been to pull that out once karmic opens, which is just a few weeks, so unless you're anxious for bug reports I'll stick to that plan09:00
RAOFI think that's a fine plan.09:00
bryce_ok kewl.  let me know if there's any specialized info beyond the norm you'd like included in nouveau bug reports09:01
bryce_most people don't read directions, but for those who do, we can tell them what to include09:01
RAOFXorg.0.log, as always.  Also, and slightly more difficultly, dmesg with the drm module loaded with 'debug=1'.09:02
bryce_interesting; how do you load the drm module with debug=1 ?09:02
RAOF"modprobe drm debug=1"09:03
RAOFBut you obviously have to do that outside of X, and preferably you want to do that before nouveau.ko has been loaded at all.09:03
bryce_right, hm09:03
RAOFSo I tend to start in recovery mode, drop to a root terminal, modprobe, then continue the boot sequence.09:04
bryce_usually by the time they've gotten to the directions, they've already got their bug.  I'll need to think on where best to put that direction.09:04
RAOFThat's obviously only useful if you can easily reproduce the bug; running with debug=1 results in everything being a bit slower, and dmesg being big :)09:05
bryce_are there disadvantages to running with debug=1 ? 09:05
bryce_oh okay09:05
bryce_maybe we need a 'how to debug nouveau' wiki page with this on it09:05
RAOFThat's a fine idea.09:07
* bryce_ switching machines...09:07
bryce^%$ broken wiki09:11
bryceok, well, some day we should make a troubleshooting page for nouveau.  ;-)09:12
RAOFOnce the wiki is up!09:12
RAOFOK.  libdrm is pushed to git.  I'll craft a call for testing.09:29
tjaaltonbryce: a random stock reply for such bugs?-)09:48
brycetjaalton: couldn't hurt09:53
bryceheya albert2310:48
albert23hi bryce10:49
brycealbert23: what's new10:51
albert23bryce: not much yet. Weekend has started and going to do some performance testing on Kubuntu10:56
albert23That's a bit slow on 96510:56
bryceeverything is slow on all intel chipsets10:56
bryce(my fault I think)10:57
jcristautjaalton: yes, possibly (re: rgb.txt)10:57
albert23bryce: actually, Gnome is doing fine on the 96511:01
albert23and the 945 is fine without gem as well11:02
albert23So I guess it's the whole gem newness that's hurting at the moment11:03
mnemoalbert23: try open a fullscreen firefox window on each side of the cube in gnome and then spin the cube11:03
mnemoI think it11:03
mnemos about how big the bitmaps are or something11:03
* bryce waves to jcristau11:04
mnemoif I spin the cube with no programs active, it's really fast even in EXA but if I create lots of firefox windows then in becomes very slow.. so maybe kubuntu just uses the intel driver differently and thus runs straight into the perf problems11:05
albert23mnemo: indeed, 3 times firefox makes the spin slow11:08
albert23but Kubuntu already seems to be slower with just moving windows around11:08
* bryce <-- passing out11:08
brycenight everyone.11:08
albert23good night11:09
Kanohi, was it needed to change the order of the entries in the xorg.conf13:42
cwilluoooo, uxa is fast again on the latest kernel on 94513:51
albert23bug 34931413:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 349314 in linux "[i915] allocate MCHBAR space & enable if necessary" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34931413:53
albert23Fixes tiling issues and slowdown on i915 chipsets13:54
cwillugot the impression that was supposed to help exa though13:58
cwillualbert23, was that supposed to be fixing uxa or exa?  Uxa has good performance again, exa still has noticeably slower rendering on larger windows14:01
albert23cwillu: the change is in i915_gem_tiling, and gem is used by both exa and uxa14:03
cwilluineffective on exa then14:03
albert23cwillu: with exa, do you still see tiling error messages in X log?14:05
cwilluhttp://pastebin.com/f4b9a0722 is uxa14:05
cwilluhttp://pastebin.com/f779fadfc is exa14:05
cwilluFailed to set tiling on front/back/depth buffer under exa14:06
cwilluThere's also a warning:  (WW) intel(0): DRI2 requires EXA14:07
cwillubah, UXA14:07
albert23uxa also fails on the front buffer14:07
cwilluuxa is fast for any size of window though14:08
cwillulike, night and day difference14:08
albert23good, so far it was only fast fro small windows for me14:08
Kanocwillu: rejected by kernel usually means that the drm from kernel is wrong, 11.40 is patched14:08
cwilluKano, I'm running 11.4014:08
Kanowell maybe the fix was only for another chipset14:10
albert23Jesse mentions he only tested on i915...14:10
* albert23 has no luck with the new kernel. GLBlur full-screen and sauerbraten are still slow (amd64)14:52
cwilluI've never had blur be fast on a 94514:57
albert23It's fast for me with gem disabled14:58
cwilluwow, turning it on and off again just put performance through the floor, I'm getting .2 fps now15:00
mnemohow can I make an LP bug be open against both python2.6 and mesa? if I select "also affects project" I only see upstream mesa project15:00
cwillueven with blur redisabled15:00
mnemoits for this bug --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.6/+bug/35513715:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 355137 in python2.6 "[G45] xserver and/or python2.6 crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New]15:00
cwillumnemo, also affects distribution15:00
mnemoaah ok15:00
cwillubryce, the boilerplate for "we need xorg.0.log and lspci" should probably include a note to remark the bug as confirmed or new15:21
cwilluooo, ubuntu wiki is back up15:34
bryce_cwillu: in fact what I've been doing lately, is tag bugs "needs-lspci-vvnn" when asking for those files.  I'm working on a script that automatically reviews bugs with those tags, that have had the files subsequently provided by the original reporter, and then it moves the bug to Confirmed automatically20:35
bryce_cwillu: using a script to do it ensures some level of consistency, and simplifies things for the reporter a bit, since they can then just reply via email or whatever20:36
bryce_oh btw, I've got a processing script that runs against all bugs in New, and asks the user to attach stuff, etc.20:37
bryce_so take care not to put bugs into New state unless they do need to be re-processed by the script.  20:37
bryce_I've seen situations where the reporter kept putting the bug back to New, and getting a new automated response, repeat etc.20:38
cwilluyep, I've been marking them back to confirmed20:40
cwilluthe first script re: needs-lspci-vvnn, is that running now?20:40
cwilluI've removed that tag from about 5-6 bugs that had the relevant details attached20:41
bryceI run the scripts manually usually on Mondays20:41
cwilluyou remember anything about 865's dri being disabled offhand?20:41
bryceI like to keep them supervised since I've been known to make coding goofs ;-)20:42
bryceyes, in fact it is intentionally disabled20:42
cwilluis there a particular api for scripting lauchpad, or are you just making normal http requests?20:42
bryceyes, the api is provided by 'launchpadlib'20:42
cwilluis there any hope for it being enabled?20:42
cwilluthanks, I'll look into that20:43
bryceyes, the original problem was that with DRI enabled, 865 would freeze during boot20:43
cwillu845 et al?20:43
brycewe tried a number of different things to get it working but no dice, so ended up disabiling it20:44
bryceno, I disabled it only on 86520:44
cwilluhmm, xorg claims 845 and 865 have it disables20:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 355258 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i865] Jaunty: DRI disabled with i865" [Undecided,Confirmed]20:45
bryceoh right20:45
brycehmm, I think we don't need to disable it on 845; I could take that bit out of the patch20:46
brycethis is bug 304871 btw20:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30487120:46
cwilluyes, I pulled one guy away from that report back to his on report on 865 on the same issue, marked it as fix released, and got him to file a new bug for the dri issue20:48
cwillu343690 I believe20:49
cwilluhttp://pastebin.com/ff2e4278 is where I'm at20:50
cwilluInternally flagging each bug as either a hang/crash, display corruption/anomaly, or performace20:51
cwilluI'm just working down the list of incomplete bugs from the bug day page20:51
cwilluonce I've finished that pass, I'll make umbrella bugs for each class, link them all up, etc20:52
bryceyeah I've thought we could fix titles to include keywords (like I did with "(UXA bug)") to make them easier to group20:52
cwilluI've just been doing [i865] [UXA], etc20:52
cwilluplus tags, but ya20:52
cwilluwonder how easy it would be to have seperate 'packages' per chipset to report against20:53
cwilluI mean, I know they're all in theory -intel, but...20:53
brycebtw, there's some triaging graphs here - http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Plots/20:54
bryceclick on X, then -intel on the left20:54
* cwillu looks at the dip in incomplete bugs at 12:00->20:00, and shouts "hey, that was me!" :)20:55
cwilluis there a magic syntax to write bug numbers in launchpad description so that they get linked up automatically?  If there is, I haven't tripped over it yet20:58
bryce"linked up"?  do you mean duped?20:59
cwilluno, just referenced20:59
bryceah, yes if you say "bug NNNNN" it'll autolink them21:00
bryce"bug #NNNN" may work too21:00
cwilluI knew that.  Except for the last 4 hours21:01
cwilluanyways :p21:01
bryceI don't think creating separate packages for each chipset would be very feasible, but I've thought it would be nice to create a launchpadlib report that allows ordering and/or filtering by chipset (or tags in general)21:01
cwilluIf I can get a few machines with 845/855/865 chipsets, would some sort of remote access test farm be useful?21:26
mnemocwillu: I think the most useful resource would be a a server that everyone can PXE boot from into various configs for super easy bisection21:35
mnemoit would be like grub booting over network where you can choose like 2.6.28kernel+intel2.6.3+mesa7.4 etc21:35
mnemousing such a tool we could easily and conveniently bisect issues21:36
mnemoand find the patches we need to cherry pick21:36
cwillukexec would make short work of that21:36
mnemoif one has to compile mesa,kernel,libdrm and intel ddx it's soo much work to bisect issues (also many people, like me, is not that good at fixing issues when stuff doesnt compile)21:36
mnemoive not really been able to test upstream versions at all until I found xorg-edgers21:37
mnemobut know I've been able to file several good upstream bugs using xorg-edgers + mainline kernel21:37
mnemoand easy bisection is probably the _one_ thing I can imagine that could help us quickly backport cherry picks21:38
mnemothe idea is basically xorg-edgers but with history and bootable directly from network21:38
mnemothat would rock imo, heh21:39
mnemobut probably hard to build21:39
* cwillu ponders21:39
cwilluI'd need a power supply that I can power-cycle over the network21:39
cwilluand maybe a webcam :p21:39
mnemoalso... then it would also be easy for us to ask bug reporters to "hey, go boot this blah blah versions and see when it broke plx"21:40
mnemoi mean if its really easy we can get help from more people21:40
cwillubut beyond that, it doesn't look completely infeasible21:40
cwillubiggest problem would be how to handle access to it21:40
cwilluI don't need to be providing an open proxy :p21:40
cwilluI'm intruiged :21:41
cwillunot intruiged enough to jump on it right now, but that's probably something useful that I can poke at post jaunty release21:41
=== mnemo is now known as mne|afk
* cwillu idly wonders how you spell intruiged anyway21:42
cwilluthat's it21:42
brycea test farm is a good idea. With X testing, there's a bit of a limitation in that a lot of bugs require you to sit in front of a real physical screen21:50
brycealso, for bugs where X locks up, if you're using the machine remotely, how do you restart it?  You'd need some sort of IPC or something21:51
brycebut... if we had a good plan, I'd totally be on board with it.21:51
tjaaltonhmm, people on the bibblelabs forums claim that our nvidia packages are broken because they link libGL.so.1 against the nvidia library, when it should be the mesa version..21:51
tjaaltonresulting that bibble5 doesn't start21:52
tjaalton"works on fedora"21:52
brycemne|afk: in fact I've been working on a bisection page thingee (for just -intel and -ati, not mesa, xserver, etc. yet)21:53
bryceI've just had so much regular bug work to do, my progress has been slow.  But it's probably about a man-week from being usable21:53
brycecwillu: fwiw, before I started working at Canonical, in my previous job I set up exactly such a remote, automated test harness, for doing NFS testing, called 'Crucible'21:55
cwillubiggest sticking point is how do you monitor the video:  I mean, one could just get a good big kvm with a monitor and a webcam, but that's pricy21:58
cwilluotherwise you're stuck with only really being able to test crashers21:58
bryceI was actually fortunate in snapping up a kvm when my previoous company went belly up and auctioned everythign off :-)21:59
cwilluintels aren't discrete, so you can't just plop a bunch of them into one machine and select them via pci address or whatever21:59
cwillu(thinking out loud)21:59
bryceeven with discrete cards, there's often only one slot on the mboard to stick them21:59
bryceand having >1 vidcard in a system can sometimes cause other kinds of problems... (something I've been testing actually...)22:00
cwilluwell, that can be addressed with a good choice of machine to use in the first place22:00
cwillualthough that still doesn't help with the 'capturing the output' problem22:00
* bryce nods22:00
cwilluI miss my multiseats :)22:00
cwilluafk for a bit22:03
=== mne|afk is now known as mnemo
mnemo"With X testing, there's a bit of a limitation"22:05
mnemothats the reason why I was thinking about PXE network booting22:06
mnemoso you get different versions of stuff but you can still only test _your_ hardware22:06
mnemo"With X testing, there's a bit of a limitation in that a lot of bugs require you to sit in front of a real physical screen"22:07
mnemohmm, now still is pretty aburd actually... http://portableubuntu.sourceforge.net/index.php?section=screenshots22:11
mnemoubuntu for Windows ?22:11
brycemnemo: ahh, gotcha, thought you meant pxe booting within a testing environment22:44
bryceer, _remote_ testing environment I mean22:45
tjaaltonlp is quite responsive today..23:10
* bryce waves23:12
tjaaltonfiling a FFe for wacom-tools23:12
RAOFtjaalton: Which LP are you using, and how can I get at it? :)23:16
tjaaltonRAOF: edge, trying to be sarcastic ;)23:16
RAOFOh.  Dissappointing!  I'd quite like to actually access my bugs, damnit!23:20
maxbedge is functional, if slow, which is more than can be said for release right now :-)23:21
maxbmain lp.net is completely down23:33
brycebugger, wonder what happened.  wiki was down last night too23:36
tjaaltonseems to work now23:40
RAOFBah!  People should restart their computers more often.23:47
RAOFOr at least not report bugs when they're running the 2.6.28-7 kernel but only have the 2.6.28-11 headers installed, and then install nouveau-kernel-source.23:49
tjaaltonyeah, like my vdr box which has intrepid and 2.6.27-2, and dist-upgrade pulled in -11 which fails to boot :)23:54
tjaaltonI should upgrade it to jaunty now that I have a keyboard which works on it23:55
tjaaltonplugging the hd to another machine just to edit menu.lst isn't much fun23:56

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