[00:09] <cjwatson> slangasek: if it's deferred, it's fine by me to unseed it
[00:10] <cjwatson> slangasek: I think I seeded it when there was still some question
[00:10] <slangasek> ok
[00:11] <slangasek> unseeding then, thanks
[00:41] <slangasek> superm1: ok, I've traced through hotkey-setup now, and I think the video/DOS stuff is the only thing left that does anything useful... I just got a bug report about why the remaining thinkpad key mask stuff is doing the /wrong/ thing... :)
[01:03] <dtchen> james_w: how often is package-import.u.c refreshed?
[01:04] <james_w> dtchen: regularly, but it's down at the moment I'm afraid
[01:04] <dtchen> aww
[01:04] <james_w> there won't be anything newer than around 3 days currently, sorry
[01:04]  * dtchen just sends upstream the git changesets instead
[01:04] <james_w> Something has changed about the network and I haven't looked for someone to fix it for me yet
[01:05] <james_w> when it comes back up it will be based on launchpadlib though, which will give a latency of ~5 minutes on average I think
[01:05] <dtchen> cool!
[01:05] <james_w> that's accepted -> available for "bzr branch"
[02:01] <RAOF> Anyone here a PPC fan?  I have no idea why ld is trying, and failing, to access crtsavres.o in this log http://tinyurl.com/dj8f9h
[02:09]  * ScottK suggests TheMuso when he's around.
[04:06] <rvn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tkdesk/+bug/234055
[04:06] <rvn> nobody has addressed this since hardy
[04:06] <rvn> can someone please look at that
[04:07] <rvn> it's still affecting the package in 8.10
[04:11] <rvn> the app needs to be updated to find newer versions of the packages it depends on that are shipped with the OS
[04:11] <rvn> not a hard fix i imagine
[04:21] <twb> Can someone with a firefox installed please tell me what its x-www-browser alternative priority is set to?
[04:21] <twb> The file is /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/x-www-browser
[04:25] <geofft> On my Intrepid ubuntu-standard system, 40
[04:26] <geofft> (it's being overriden by xlinks2 at priority 69)
[04:26] <twb> Really?!
[04:26] <twb> On Debian it's 70
[04:27] <twb> Any idea why that's different?
[04:27] <ebroder> We were talking about this elsewhere early. My theory is that x-www-browser wants to be something that launches quickly - i.e. you get an HTML attachment, you want to open it, see the file, close the window
[04:27] <ebroder> Firefox is too bulky for that kind of usage
[04:28] <ebroder> But that's just a theory - I don't know the real reasoning
[04:28] <geofft> I think Jaunty has firefox at a higher priority
[04:28] <twb> The current ordering on Debian is ridiculous
[04:28] <twb> galeon and netsurf are up the top
[06:49] <twb> Have I got this right?
[06:49] <twb> "My understanding of Ubuntu numbering is that it is -0ubuntu1 only if it is actually modifying an imported Debian package of version -0.  If it's a native Ubuntu package that has no relation to any Debian package, then it would just be -1."
[06:49] <twb> Er, and by "native Ubuntu" I really mean "not based on a Debian package".
[06:59] <infinity> twb: There are very few "native Ubuntu" packages in that sense, though.
[06:59] <twb> infinity: upstart and such
[06:59] <twb> infinity: but I've understood correctly, right?
[06:59] <laserjock> I don't think it'd be a -1, that would mean it was a Debian package
[06:59] <infinity> twb: Mostly, we view "packaged for Ubuntu first" packages as being "stuff that Debian hasn't gotten around to yet", and stick with the 1.2.3-0ubuntu1 versioning, so we get the merge hint if/when Debian picks it up.
[07:00] <twb> infinity: OK, I wasn't aware.
[07:00] <twb> infinity: is this new since, say, 2006?
[07:00] <laserjock> if it's really a native package you'd just do <version>
[07:00] <twb> laserjock: yeah, I misused the word "native"
[07:00] <laserjock> k
[07:00] <infinity> twb: upstart's versioned without the -XubuntuX mostly because Keybuk chose to do it that way, IMO.  Not due to any particularly strict policy on who upstream is.
[07:01] <infinity> twb: And no, none of the versioning policy is particularly new.  We've been informally doing things pretty much the same way since warty.
[07:01] <twb> Fair enough.
[07:02] <infinity> twb: But the "only packaged in Ubuntu, and nowhere else" case is fuzzy, and sometimes it goes the way of ustrart, sometimes it goes the -0ubuntu1 route, generally depending on how likely the packager thinks it is that Debian will ever pick it up.
[07:02] <twb> infinity: may I quote you on the debian-haskell list?
[07:02] <infinity> twb: (And using versions without "ubuntu" means the archive admins have to add a manual blacklist to the sync process (we have one for upstart), "just in case" Debian ever ships a version)
[07:03] <twb> infinity: well, Debian does ship upstart, but only in experimental
[07:03] <infinity> twb: Right.  And when that moves to unstable, we'd accidentally sync it if we didn't have the blacklist.  Hence the issue.
[07:03] <twb> Huh.  I thought syncs were manual unless there were no differences.
[07:04] <infinity> twb: The fact that Keybuk happens to have been intimately familiar with the sync process, and blacklisting therein, may have influenced his versioning. :)
[07:04] <twb> Oh, I guess "no differences" is determined by the presence of ubuntuN
[07:04] <infinity> twb: Right.  Syncs versus merges are entirely based on version numbers.
[07:04] <twb> OK, thanks.  May I quote your comments above?
[07:04] <infinity> twb: When we autosync, anything that's not XubuntuX is auto-synced if Debian has a higher version number (unless we blacklist it).
[07:04] <infinity> twb: Quote away.
[07:04] <twb> Thanks.
[07:10] <DreadKnight> heya
[07:11] <DreadKnight> blender shows up very crappy ... guess bad video drivers
[07:11] <DreadKnight> i have ATI intel GMA 950
[07:15] <foxbuntu> DreadKnight, I think you might be asking for help in the wrong channel try #ubuntu
[07:16] <DreadKnight> well, i have jaunty :P
[07:16] <DreadKnight> bah im such and bleeding edge freak..
[07:16] <twb> DreadKnight: #ubuntu+1, then, I think
[07:16] <DreadKnight> oh ok
[07:17] <twb> But I thought 9.04 was already released?
[07:17] <foxbuntu> twb, not yet
[07:17] <twb> Oh, 23rd
[07:17] <twb> Someone confused me!
[07:17] <foxbuntu> :)
[07:17] <DreadKnight> lol
[07:18] <DreadKnight> beta released.. channel topic
[08:13] <gene2> I hate asking this here, but I've searched and searched, asked on #ubuntu and got nowhere. I'm looking to find the source for linux-image-2.6.24-23-rt, when I get it using apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-23-rt, I get the regular source with the Ubuntu patch but the preempt stuff is missing, because when I tr to load the config I have running it complains about a bunch of preempt variables not existing
[08:14] <gene2> I'd like to rebuild this package but I just cannot locate the ubuntu patch for 2.6.24.7-rt21, the original one does not apply clean
[08:14] <twb> gene2: look in debian/patches/ ?
[08:15] <gene2> yes sir
[08:15] <twb> There might be an #ubuntu-kernel or something.
[08:15] <gene2> there is no patches director in the debian directory
[08:15] <gene2> thanks, I'll give it a try
[08:18] <twb> Unfortunately I don't know how Ubuntu does its kernel packaging, so I can't help further.
[08:18] <twb> Theroretically kernel-package was once used, but AIUI that was long ago
[08:20] <gene2> got ya
[08:29] <cjwatson> gene2: by definition the only source that can possibly be used for our -rt kernel is contained in 'apt-get source <package name>' and in the build-dependencies listed in debian/control
[08:30] <cjwatson> gene2: the build system simply won't use anything else - so if you're not seeing something, either you're missing it or it's not there :-)
[08:30] <gene2> cjwatson: I was under the same impression but I'm telling you parts of the preempt-rt patch are missing
[08:31] <cjwatson> *shrug* the builds don't happen by magic
[08:31] <cjwatson> I don't know anything about the -rt kernel, I'm just giving you immutable rules for how our build system works
[08:31] <gene2> I agree, I'm going file by file looking how this patch might get applied but the way I see it now, the patch is not there
[08:32] <cjwatson> perhaps the patch you're looking for is not in fact applied then?
[08:33] <gene2> perhaps so, it is very likely, but I cannot find where the patch lies then, when I grab the patch from the original maintainer, I can see it applies like 75%, so obviously it is not applied, the problem is I cannot find how it is applied using the rules anywhere
[08:34] <cjwatson> in the version you're looking at, patches are in debian/binary-custom.d/rt/
[08:36] <gene2> omg, thank you so much! I see it now, I really appreciate your help
[08:37] <cjwatson> I think 'debian/rules custom-prepare-rt' will give you buildable source ... somewhere
[08:38] <gene2> yes, looks like it, except i was not aware of the -prepare, this will help a lot instead of applying those by hand
[08:39] <gene2> thank you so much for your help, its 3:40am here, I can go to sleep now and figure out the remaining tomorrow
[08:40] <cjwatson> debian/build/custom-source-rt/ by the looks of things
[08:41] <cjwatson> is where custom-prepare-rt puts it, with the expectation that it be built with something like 'make -C debian/build/custom-source-rt O=debian/build/custom-build-rt' - see debian/rules.d/6-binary-custom.mk
[08:42] <gene2> I ran fakeroot debian/rules custom-prepare-rt it applied all the patches and crapped out in the end, trying to execute something, I'm getting tooo sleepy to figure out what
[08:43] <cjwatson> gene2: for reference, the build system starts from a clean extracted source package (from dpkg-source -x) with 'debian/rules build'
[08:44] <cjwatson> of course that will build all sorts of other stuff first
[08:44] <cjwatson> but that's where to start if you want to trace this through
[08:44] <cjwatson> (it'll later run 'fakeroot debian/rules binary' or a close equivalent)
[08:45] <cjwatson> in general 'debuild -b' will rebuild a package from source with no changes; you can apply changes on top of that by first editing the working tree and probably also editing debian/changelog to give it a different version number
[08:46] <siretart_> I've merged lintian 2.2.9 for personal use, now I wonder if it was acceptable to upload it to jaunty at this point.
[08:46] <gene2> I see
[08:46] <cjwatson> you can pick apart the build system by hand to rebuild just the -rt bit, which will use less machine time, but it might use less human time to just rebuild the lot ...
[08:46] <cjwatson> siretart_: I'd rather not, it moves to a newer version of policy than is in Ubuntu
[08:47] <siretart_> ok
[08:47] <cjwatson> siretart_: is there some particular fix you want?
[08:47] <siretart_> its in my ppa anyway..
[08:47] <siretart_> cjwatson: I'm working on debian packages for unstable, so I'd like to check against policy 3.8.1
[08:47] <cjwatson> ISTR I was reasonably deliberate in merging only up to 2.2.5 recently
[08:47] <cjwatson> if you're working on Debian packages, why not use a Debian chroot with Debian's lintian package installed?
[08:48] <cjwatson> that's what I do
[08:48] <cjwatson> since Debian requires binary uploads you need a chroot anyway
[08:48] <siretart_> hm..  the main reason is that I use emacs-client to connect to my 'main' emacs session
[08:49] <cjwatson> isn't that just a matter of some bind-mounts?
[08:49] <siretart_> perhaps I can make the debian chrooted emacsclient connect to the outside emacs? - /me goes investigating..
[08:49] <cjwatson> I have a bunch of hacky scripts which set up a chroot with all sorts of bind-mounts and shims for this kind of thing
[08:49] <cjwatson> (they're pretty specific to me but also not hard to reinvent)
[08:50] <Mithrandir> you generally just want $HOME and /tmp, don't you?
[08:50] <Mithrandir> schroot can do that for you easily enough
[08:50] <siretart_> and perhaps /srv/scratch/packages...
[08:51] <cjwatson> and /proc /sys /dev /dev/pts, and I actually mount bits of $HOME and /tmp separately rather than the whole thing. Also I transfer xauth and iceauth data into the chroot
[08:51] <cjwatson> and /etc/resolv.conf
[08:52] <cjwatson> I might look into schroot/dchroot one day
[08:52] <siretart_> skip dchroot, schroot replaces it
[08:55] <slangasek> schroot is very nice
[08:57] <slangasek> proc and /dev/pts are handled by default; as are /home and /tmp, but your mounts are just a config file anyway
[08:57] <Mithrandir> slangasek: resolv.conf should arguably be done by default too.
[08:57] <slangasek> maybe it is
[08:57] <slangasek> I'm not sure I've looked :)
[08:57] <slangasek> it is
[08:57] <slangasek> :)
[08:57] <slangasek> $ cat /etc/schroot/copyfiles-defaults
[08:57] <slangasek> /etc/group
[08:57] <slangasek> /etc/hosts
[08:57] <slangasek> /etc/passwd
[08:57] <slangasek> /etc/resolv.conf
[08:58] <slangasek> /etc/shadow
[08:58]  * hyperair thinks that was more than 3 lines of a paste. =p
[08:58] <slangasek> you are correct
[08:58] <siretart_> indeed. emacsclient "just works"...
[08:59]  * cjwatson installs schroot and puts it on the "when I get round to it" list, then
[08:59] <slangasek> schroot+lvm snapshotting == win
[09:00] <cjwatson> mm, unfortunately attempting to convert laptop in-place to lvm == loss, probably
[09:00] <slangasek> ah, yeah
[09:00] <slangasek> :)
[09:08] <A4Tech> Hi, Please Give, I collect deb package but it will be the program of the scripts.
[09:08] <A4Tech> ie make and install the files I have no. What should I do?
[09:09]  * hyperair tries very hard to understand and fails.
[09:11] <A4Tech> hyperair what you do not understand? :)
[09:11] <hyperair> your two sentences.
[09:11] <A4Tech> I need to collect the deb package, which will be only 2 Script and a pair of directories
[09:12] <A4Tech> and that he has set this in ~/.gnome2/...
[09:12] <Mithrandir> are you asking for help on how to build a deb package?
[09:12] <A4Tech> Mithrandir yes)
[09:14] <A4Tech> written everywhere how to build packages from source
[09:14] <A4Tech> but I have some bash scripts
[09:16] <cjwatson> then you take the standard advice for building packages from source, but just leave out the bits about compiling things
[09:17] <A4Tech> hmm, and where to edit the path, which will set the contents of the package?
[09:17] <cjwatson> man debhelper (and then read the various other manual pages linked from that; dh_install in particular may be relevant)
[09:18] <A4Tech> ok
[09:45] <RAOF> Poot!  When did compiz start preventing gnome-do from presenting properly?
[09:46]  * RAOF looks learily at the recent focus_on_map patch.
[09:50] <RAOF> Oh, dear.  It seems that compiz is no longer putting splash windows on the top of the z-order, where nature intended.
[09:57]  * hyperair hates splash windows anyway
[09:58] <RAOF> hyperair: One _tiny_ problem: gnome-do takes out a keyboard & pointer grab, and is a splash window...
[09:59] <hyperair> what? seriously?
[09:59] <hyperair> i thought it was a dock.
[09:59] <hyperair> oh whoops sorry i was thinking of docky =p
[09:59] <RAOF> That would be the 'docky' interface, added quite recently.  Which is a dock, and hence doesn't suffer from the problem.
[10:00] <hyperair> yeah
[10:00] <RAOF> All the other interfaces _are_ splash windows, take out grabs, and then aren't positioned above other windows.  This makes the computer appear to behave quite strangely!
[10:02] <hyperair> hmm
[10:05] <RAOF> Compiz has an awesome dependency graph.  It includes such wonders as libxine-dev.
[10:05] <crdlb> what pulls that in? O_o
[10:06] <RAOF> Some kde4 stuff, which depends on phonon, which depends on libxine.
[10:06] <hyperair> lol nice
[10:06] <crdlb> ah, wait isn't that the point of phonon? :P
[10:06] <RAOF> No.
[10:06] <hyperair> why does compiz depend upon kde4 again?
[10:06] <crdlb> to build kde4-window-decorator et al.
[10:07] <Mithrandir> build dependency graph != dependency graph, though
[11:27] <RicardoPerez> andersk: Hi. Can I chat with you about the bug #269904 ? I've a refresh problem with the clock applet
[14:04] <directhex> is it still not possible to connected to encrypted wifi when auto-logging-in? i don't remember the specifics
[14:06] <infinity> directhex: There was a pretty long discussion on ubuntu-devel (search for "keyring" on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-March/thread.html) about auto login and keyring passwords, but AFAIR, nothing was actually changed in that regard for jaunty.
[14:07] <infinity> directhex: So, since there's nothing unlocking your keyring, and it's encrypted-by-default, you can't both auto-login and auto-connect to secure wireless.
[14:09] <jpds> Unless you don't have a password on the keyring.
[14:17]  * hyperair doesn't
[14:17] <Company> but it does work if i select "available to all users" when editing connections
[14:18] <Company> does it not use the keyring then or am i misremembering?
[15:01] <ion_> nautilus: - Update fallback icon to not look like gnome 1.x
[15:02] <ion_> *Finally*
[15:29] <superm1> slangasek, great! I think the next step will be to find out if it really is doing anything "useful" for desktop installs, or if the X driver is doing similar behaviors on it's own when it initializes xrandr.  I'm not sure i've got any older laptops with svideo still, so i'll have to look around
[17:06] <beginner9> hello
[17:06] <beginner9> can someone help me with this?
[17:07] <beginner9> no one?
[17:08] <beginner9> hey
[17:08] <beginner9> nenolod
[18:06] <ebroder> If I'm merging package a into package b, then the new package b should provide, conflicts, and replace a, right?
[19:05] <directhex> who killed pciehp?
[19:12] <directhex> it used to be at least possible to get hotplug working on an aspire one's memory card readers, or at least on one of them. jaunty seems to have no pciehp.ko, and correspondingly zero hotpluggability
[19:25] <johanbr> directhex: CONFIG_HOTPLUG_PCI_PCIE=y
[19:25] <johanbr> it's built-in
[19:29] <directhex> oh bugger, that means kernel parameters to alter behaviour doesn't it
[19:30] <johanbr> yes
[19:33] <directhex> wish i knew what made these card readers so difficult to have JustWork(tm)
[21:10] <dtchen> kirkland: i'll file a wishlist about this, but it would be awesome if screen-profiles also prepended exit status to PS1
[21:11] <dtchen> kirkland: "exit status" -> non-zero exit status
[21:12] <jefferai> asac: hey there, Riddell said I should ping you
[21:12] <jefferai> having a networking issue
[21:46] <philsf> is this the right place to ask for the removal of a package?
[21:46] <philsf> Bug #64594
[21:48] <philsf> bug has been  around since 2006, and upstream shows no activity towards a solution in a long time, please remove hubackup before jaunty
[21:49] <cjwatson> philsf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages
[21:50] <cjwatson> philsf: in short: if you aren't an Ubuntu developer, get an Ubuntu developer to sponsor your request (and in this case, preferably get this Martin Bergner guy to agree, since he seems to be involved; "hostile removals" tend to create aggravation and confusion); if you are, subscribe the ubuntu-archive team to the bug
[21:51] <jefferai> asac: basically the issue is, I had a default openvz install of 8.04 server which I upgraded to 8.10, no problems in either...but when I upgrade it to 9.04 (tried several times) the networking doesn't work.  The main issue seems to be that /var/run/network isn't being created, so ifstate can't be found/stored there, but if I add that directory it gets wiped out on the next reboot
[21:51] <jefferai> (of the container)
[21:52] <philsf> cjwatson: I see, thanks for the info
[22:07] <philsf> cjwatson: it appears it was already removed, with consent from developers: Bug #320797
[22:08] <philsf> should I close the original bug as invalid? I can't set as wontfix
[22:15] <Cronos> is it here to ask for help on ubuntu 9.04 ?
[22:15] <Mithrandir> no
[22:15] <Mithrandir> ask in #ubuntu+1
[22:15] <Cronos> kk
[22:22] <cjwatson> philsf: fix released is probably closest
[22:22] <cjwatson> philsf: just include an explanation pointing to the other bug