[18:16] <Rocket2DMn> Hey guys, what did we decide about CategoryDocumentation?
[19:11] <nhandler> mdke: Since you agreed that we should have a karmic branch for gnome-user-docs, could you possibly create lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic and take care of setting that as trunk?
[19:19] <mdke> nhandler: I can create the branch but won't set it as trunk, because it isn't :)
[19:20] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: to get rid of it on the help wiki, over time
[19:21] <nhandler> mdke: So what is the difference between the lp:gnome-user-docs branch and the lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic branch?
[19:21] <mdke> nhandler: lp:gnome-user-docs is an import of upstream svn
[19:21] <mdke> nhandler: ubuntu-karmic and the other ubuntu branches have Ubuntu customisations
[19:28] <mdke> (and the packaging)
[19:30] <nhandler> mdke: Oh, ok. And is the lp:gnome-user-docs always in sync with upstream? Or do we manually update it?
[19:31] <mdke> nhandler: it's automatically synched. But I don't know if that will need to be changed for the move to git
[19:31] <nhandler> mdke: I thought they had tools (or were making tools) that allowed us to keep bzr branches in sync with svn/cvs/git branches for when archive reorganization comes
[19:33] <mdke> nhandler: there are lots of bzr plugins around
[19:35] <mdke> i think cvs and svn are the only ones supported by LP at the moment, but I may be wrong
[19:54] <Rocket2DMn> alright thanks mdke , so if we are editing pages that have it, just remove it?
[19:54] <Rocket2DMn> I thought we had reached that conclusion, but I wanted to check
[20:05] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yep
[20:05] <mdke> nhandler: ubuntu-karmic pushed up
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> cool, i'm starting to get some solid organization for our summer of documentation.  we will be tracking progress on this page again - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
[20:06] <mdke> great
[20:07] <Rocket2DMn> The plan in my head right now is to officially start in May since Jaunty will be out by then
[20:07] <j1mc> :)
[20:07] <Rocket2DMn> and Gutsy will be EOL
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, did we decide that DocuMENTORS was dead?
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> e.g. the ubuntu-doc-students team?
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-students
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> also have this old team lying around - https://launchpad.net/~wikiforumteam
[20:36] <missaugustina> Rocket2DMn: I just saw your mention of the DocuMENTORS team.  I joined that on Launchpad.  Is there a different team I should join?
[20:36] <Rocket2DMn> missaugustina, i'm not sure how it's going down exactly, there was discussion a few months ago about it
[20:37] <Rocket2DMn> people weren't really getting mentors i guess, but I don't think that team will disappear
[20:37] <Rocket2DMn> that wikiforimteam probably should though, that is old and unused
[20:39] <missaugustina> k, I didn't get the impression from DocuMENTORS that it was a one-on-one mentoring deal.
[20:39] <missaugustina> More like you are "in training" and folks on the list just point you in the right direction.
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i think that is how it is in reality, but i think the original intent was to be assigned a mentor
[20:40] <missaugustina> yeah, that sounds like a pretty tall order :)
[20:42] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't think that it should disappear myself, I just think it needs simplifying
[20:42] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: the way it was implemented was too formal
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> simplifying++
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> what about that wikiforumteam though?
[20:43] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'll scrap the wikiforum team though, you're right
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> ok cool
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> One of the hardest things I've found about getting involved with the doc team is that there is stuff everywhere
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> we've done a good job of organizing it over the last year, but its not perfect yet
[20:44] <missaugustina> There doesn't seem to be a consistent list of items and who's working on it.
[20:44] <mdke> missaugustina: the task list?
[20:45] <missaugustina> Maybe I was looking at the wrong thing?  For instance, Rhythmbox was listed as a to-do but there was someone already working on it.
[20:46] <Rocket2DMn> where we you lookng missaugustina ?  I'm not sure there really is a good way to mark pages as being worked on, its a community wiki, any page is fair game
[20:46] <missaugustina> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks
[20:47] <missaugustina> Under the Kubuntu section there is a table with more details of task status and who is working on it.
[20:47] <Rocket2DMn> ah ok, you're talking about system documentation (duh, my bad)
[20:48] <missaugustina> Sorry for the confusion ;)
[20:48] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not entirely sure how they coordinate working on system docs exactly.
[20:50] <mdke> it's very difficult to run a table like that because it quickly gets out of date
[20:50] <missaugustina> It's no biggie, I was just agreeing that as a newbie, it can be challenging because things are a little spread out :)
[20:50] <missaugustina> Yeah I totally understand.
[20:50] <mdke> and the rhythmbox one is still an active task because it hasn't been completed
[20:52] <mdke> but yeah, we can always work on keeping things better up to date
[20:53] <Rocket2DMn> The sheer number of community doc pages is overwhelming, it is difficult to decide how to proceed with much of this
[20:53] <missaugustina> Maybe folks working on those tasks could just put their name next to it so people coming to the page know who to contact?
[20:53] <mdke> yes, maybe. Although the mailing list should always be the first point of contact
[20:55] <missaugustina> Makes sense to me :)  Thanks!
[20:55] <mdke> one good way to organise it would be to have a bug for every task, then you can check the bug for the status and current assignee
[20:57] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, if you want to take the bug route, maybe you want to add a bug link to each community doc page like we did with manpages?
[20:58] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: hmm?
[20:59] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I was just talking about having a bug for the tasks on our task pages
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> ah, that can be done, too
[20:59] <mdke> what were you suggesting?
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> take for example: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/intrepid/en/man1/yelp.1.html
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> see that bug link at the top?
[21:00] <Rocket2DMn> you could do something like that official and community doc pages and have it default to filing against the ubuntu-docs package
[21:00] <mdke> we have that in the footer of the theme
[21:02] <Rocket2DMn> ah i see it on the official docs, though it goes to ubuntu-doc project, not ubuntu-docs package
[21:02] <Rocket2DMn> no such link on the community docs afaict
[21:03] <mdke> oh yeah. I'd rather encourage people to fix problems in the community docs themselves than collect bugs for those pages
[21:03] <mdke> but the WikiGuide page contains a link
[21:04] <Rocket2DMn> does the theme need to be updated to link to ubuntu-docs package instead of ubuntu-doc based on our new bug policy?
[21:04] <mdke> yes
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> do we need to open a bug task for that, or will you just go ahead and do that sometime?
[21:09] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I thought it had already been done, but for some reason the change isn't working
[21:09] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm digging into it now
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> hmm, i see its ok on https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/newtoubuntu/C/index.html
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> seems to just be the homepages
[21:12] <mdke> ah, DOH
[21:13] <mdke> thanks Rocket2DMn
[21:15] <Rocket2DMn> np
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, question about a bug i'm working on - bug 352313
[21:24] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 352313 in ubuntu-docs "Grammar error" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352313
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> The bug appears in two places - virutalization.xml and jeos.xml in serverguide
[21:24] <mdke> ok
[21:25] <Rocket2DMn> the text is exactly the same in those sections of the documents - how/why?
[21:25] <mdke> shouldn't it be?
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> Well, I'm not entirely sure why documentation is being maintained in two places there
[21:26] <mdke> oh, it's a substantial section?
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> do I need to update both documents?  Or should they be Including?
[21:26] <mdke> I thought you just meant that the same sentence appeared twice
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> yeah its a large part of the document
[21:27] <Rocket2DMn> or rather, is that virtualization document not correct, b/c looking at the build it is simply a table of contents type page
[21:27] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, jeos.xml isn't used anymore as far as I can see, it's not included in serverguide.xml
[21:28] <mdke> sommer: jeos.xml can be removed I guess to avoid confusion
[21:28] <mdke> good spot Rocket2DMn
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> i dont see a serverguide.html
[21:28] <mdke> serverguide.xml
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> let me rebuild
[21:29] <mdke> no, don't bother
[21:29] <Rocket2DMn> too late
[21:32] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, should I delete the jeos.xml file as part of my patch/diff?
[21:33] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: we can let sommer do it separately
[21:33] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, how do we go about that? Email? bug and assign to him?
[21:34] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: he'll take care of it, he's good at irc hilights
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> haha ok, i'll make a quick mention on the current bug report when i attach the patch as well
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> this leads me to another question then - where is the xml->html filename correlation defined?
[21:36] <Rocket2DMn> its doesnt appear to be one-to-one or even simple includes
[21:36] <mdke> there isn't any correlation
[21:36] <mdke> the xsl stylesheets define what html files are build during the build
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> ah, so where are those?
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> libs?
[21:38] <mdke> well, we use standard ones installed by docbook-xsl, with some minor customisations in libs/
[21:39] <mdke> the names of the html files come from the section id's in the xml
[21:39] <mdke> so if you have "<sect1 id="video">", then that becomes video.html when we build the html
[21:40] <Rocket2DMn> ok, so all sect1 definitions become html files then?
[21:41] <mdke> possibly also sect2, I'm not 100% sure
[21:41] <Rocket2DMn> the one i checked wasnt a html
[21:42] <mdke> it depends on to what level of detail you "chunk" the html, i.e. split it into separate html files
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks for clearing that up, that helps my understanding quite a bit
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> ill have that patch in just a moment, only needed to remove one word :)
[21:43] <mdke> don't forget to use scripts/validate.sh before you send the patch, that is your best friend
[21:43] <Rocket2DMn> doin that now
[21:43] <mdke> so $ scripts/validate.sh serverguide/C/serverguide.xml
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> some of the older versions didnt have a document/C/document naming convention, like for Hardy i think
[21:45] <Rocket2DMn> maybe im confusing myself
[21:47] <mdke> we've always used that structure
[21:48] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i just went back and checked
[21:48] <Rocket2DMn> im running circles around myself, dont mind me
[21:50] <Rocket2DMn> alright, the patch is uploaded to the bug report
[21:52] <mdke> thanks
[21:55] <Rocket2DMn> goin afk, thanks for the help matthew