[10:32]  * james_w waves
[11:24] <davidbarth> james_w: hi!
[11:24] <james_w> hi davidbarth 
[12:03]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[12:04]  * Ienorand -> Brownie cake dessert
[13:12] <RainCT> Uhm.. How are we supposed to join the ML?
[13:18] <james_w> https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/listinfo/ayatana-project
[13:44] <RainCT> thx
[14:56]  * kenvandine_wk thinks we should have a topic
[14:59] <jens-25621> Hm.. when i start pidgin a email icon appears in the panel. I guess that's gonna change?
[14:59] <hyperair> nope
[14:59] <hyperair> it's a "message" icon
[14:59] <hyperair> it's not gonna change.
[15:00] <kenvandine_wk> jens-25621: that is the message indicator
[15:01] <jens-25621> This is intended to replace the pidgin pannel applet, gmail notification, evolution notification, etc. Right?
[15:02] <kenvandine_wk> eventually yes
[15:02] <kenvandine_wk> already replaces pidgin and evolution notification icons
[15:14] <kenvandine_wk> great
[15:15] <davidbarth> kenvandine_wk: ah, now that its created i can also change it with konversation; previoulsy it did not work
[15:15] <njpatel> maybe we should stop using #dx now
[15:16] <kenvandine_wk> yeah
[15:16] <kenvandine_wk> well
[15:16] <kenvandine_wk> set the topic there directing folks over here
[15:16] <davidbarth> +1
[15:16] <njpatel> sure
[15:22] <jens-25621> Is there any documents available that explains the idea? I don't quite get the point, except saving panel space.
[15:25] <kenvandine_wk> one sec
[15:25] <kenvandine_wk> https://edge.launchpad.net/indicator-applet
[15:25] <kenvandine_wk> i guess that isn't a great discription
[15:25] <kenvandine_wk> but it is a central point for human to human interaction
[15:25] <kenvandine_wk> so things that might need your attention
[15:27] <jens-25621> Ok, thanks
[15:40] <tedg> jens-25621: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
[15:40] <jens-25621> Great!
[15:41] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: thanks... that is better than i came up with
[15:41] <kenvandine_wk> perhaps we should post a link to a wiki page that talks more about the projects ayatana is working on
[15:41] <tedg> Probably should link that from the page you sent.
[15:41] <kenvandine_wk> in the topic that is
[15:45] <tedg> davidbarth: Perhaps you could make the Ayatana project in LP a "project group" (I don't know how to do that) and then we can make the other projects part of it.  Kinda like how Bazaar and LP itself work.
[15:48] <james_w> I believe you ask an admin to do that by filing a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[16:00] <davidbarth> james_w: i had the lists.canonical.com list setup initially, but it seems that a launchpad list is better
[16:00] <davidbarth> james_w: especially for people with multiple emails
[16:00] <james_w> did I put the wrong link in the email?
[16:01] <davidbarth> james_w: i've opened the team to remove the restrictions
[16:01] <davidbarth> james_w: yes ;) but that's my fault
[16:01] <davidbarth> james_w: i had the first list setup before
[16:01] <davidbarth> james_w: i would just like to make sure i have the right launchpad setting, ie
[16:02] <davidbarth> james_w: the list should be moderated like ubuntu-devel, but apart from that, everybody should be free to join
[16:02] <davidbarth> james_w: is there some after-post moderation feature in LP
[16:02] <davidbarth> james_w: or do i need to reapply the "moderated team" setting in LP
[16:02] <james_w> I'm not sure I'm afraid
[16:03] <davidbarth> hmm, i need a launchpad guy then ;)
[16:03] <james_w> I'll follow up on the mailing list
[16:06] <davidbarth> james_w: hold on, i will post more information once i'm sure the lp setup is ok
[16:06] <james_w> thanks
[16:09]  * tedg really wants "debuild" to show an animation of a fairy loosing it's wings if I forget to do an ./autogen.sh first!  So much time lost by forgetting that.
[16:09] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[16:20] <tedg> So when I use g_dgettext do I still need to have the string with a _() around it?
[16:34] <nealmcb> https://launchpad.net/ayatana and perhaps that MessagingMenu link or the like should probably go in the topic here.  Or something more general, with faqs etc.
[16:39] <nealmcb> Will the launchpad tabs for code, bugs, translations, answers for ayatana be used, or will the specific code project be used for that stuff e.g. notify-osd?  If the former, you might want to delete them for now to avoid confusing folks
[16:39] <nealmcb> oops - I mean "if the latter"
[16:41] <doctormo> hey tedg, what's with the new name?
[16:42] <tedg> doctormo: We're trying to change it quickly to hide from the community ;)
[16:42] <doctormo> tedg: heh
[16:42] <njpatel> tedg: devhelp seems to indicate that _() should be used instead of g_dgettext 
[16:42] <doctormo> Way to go, someone announced it on the ubuntu-devel mailing list. :-P
[16:42] <tedg> doctormo: No, the goal is to have something "bigger" for everything that we're doing.  Makes it so that the individual projects can have sensible names :)
[16:43] <tedg> njpatel: We're on #ubuntu-desktop with the question now :)
[16:43]  * njpatel hops to #ubuntu-desktop
[16:44] <doctormo> tedg: sounds good, I'll hang around just to read, there's bound to be interesting stuff.
[16:44] <tedg> doctormo: Oh, no, now we're going to have to call in the black helicopters to erase the memories of everyone that reads that list!  What a pain. :)
[16:47] <doctormo> tedg: So apart from the osd-notif, what are the other projects?
[16:50] <nealmcb> doctormo: more hints at https://launchpad.net/ayatana 
[16:50] <doctormo> Ta lov
[16:51] <doctormo> nealmcb: Do you guys need some branding? or are you going in house?
[16:52] <nealmcb> I'm not one of "you guys" - just curious bystander
[16:52] <nealmcb> doctormo: "ta lov"?
[16:52] <james_w> I know Ubuntu is known for brown, but "outhouse" graphics might be going a bit far
[16:53] <nealmcb> lol
[16:53] <nealmcb> james_w: The proper term is "organic" :)
[16:53] <james_w> heh
[16:54] <doctormo> nealmcb: I thought that was what we all were, curious bystanders... 
[16:54] <tedg> doctormo: The only other one is http://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
[16:55] <tedg> doctormo: Lots of patches for apps right now though.  We should find a place to centralize them.
[16:56] <njpatel> we need desktop-wide text-entry completion
[16:56] <njpatel> something that effects every gtk-entry
[16:56] <njpatel> then my keyboard would survive another couple of years
[16:56] <doctormo> njpatel: that needs hinting, or some form of text box typing... otherwise you'd get a mess
[16:57] <njpatel> maybe so, but someone should do it :)
[16:58] <doctormo> njpatel: someone? hang on my cat's trying to jump out of the window...
[16:58] <njpatel> :-)
[17:00]  * tedg will miss doctormo's cat, but is glad that he's working on text entry completion.
[17:02] <doctormo> tedg: I'm working on user data systems, "someone" can work on text entry completion ;-)
[17:03] <tedg> Hmm, I liked your cat more than I like user data systems...  ;)
[17:04] <doctormo> tedg: The doctor's cat is not an centralised advanced technoledgy.
[17:12]  * tedg laughs knowingly as that's exactly what doctormo's cat wants him to believe.
[17:17] <doctormo> We projected a 1929 cartoon on the wall the other day, that cat kept on trying to bat boe-peep's school teacher. silly cat.
[17:18] <doctormo> I hope he doesn't do that when we show the chaplin.
[17:21] <doctormo> tedg: Re the messaging indicator applet, I think it's a usability problem to lump messages to you with messages to others that you got because of some other reason (bcc, mailing list etc)
[17:22] <doctormo> It'd be better to seperate those out, and I'm hoping it'll be thread aware.
[17:23] <tedg> doctormo: Well, that depends largely on the evolution plugin.  In Evo it's actually surprisingly hard to get that information.  The goal is to make it "mailbox" aware so that you can filter it that way.  That's talked about in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu
[17:24] <doctormo> Oh I'm going to be so happy to put EDS out to pasture. damn that thing. :-)
[17:25] <tedg> EDS doesn't do mail.
[17:27] <doctormo> Isn't that the backend store?
[17:27] <doctormo> Or is EDS just for calendars and contacts?
[17:27] <tedg> EDS is just for calendars, contacts and I believe notes.
[17:28] <tedg> Camel is a library, but it does the mail stuff.
[17:28] <tedg> I don't think EDS will go away, but I'm excited about the DBus merge.
[17:28] <mpt> davidbarth, maybe you could ask the LP admins to change it
[17:30] <doctormo> tedg: yes me too, at last I'll be able to use it as a data source for compatability :-)
[17:43]  * MacSlow -> capoeira
[18:49] <njpatel> http://johnnyjacob.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/makespace-plugin-for-gnome-evolution/ is nice
[18:50] <njpatel> could use it for netbooks
[18:50] <njpatel> I can imagine it would be a bit annoying in the long run, through
[18:53] <james_w> having something like the KDE 4 menu for that might save some of the annoyance
[18:53] <james_w> so you have faster access to the directories that are closer to the one you are in
[18:54] <james_w> have you seen the proposed new netbook interface for evolution?
[18:55] <james_w> I can't remember the name now
[18:56] <james_w> ah, anjal
[18:58] <kenvandine_wk> i started to package anjal :)
[18:58] <kenvandine_wk> but got busy
[18:58] <james_w> cool, next cycle :-)
[18:58] <kenvandine_wk> yeah :)
[18:58] <kenvandine_wk> it requires patches to evolution
[19:06] <njpatel> i tried to build it but couldn't get it working
[19:06] <njpatel> pretty nice though
[19:06] <james_w> anyone familiar with dbus-glib?
[19:07] <njpatel> james_w: what part exactly :)
[19:07] <james_w> I'm trying to chain two calls together
[19:08] <james_w> and I want to pass user_data that is used when the second call completes
[19:08] <james_w> (using the async functions)
[19:08] <james_w> but the first call seems to free the user_data on completion
[19:08] <james_w> hmm, maybe NULL for the first free_func will prevent that
[19:08] <njpatel> hmm, it shouldn't touch user_data
[19:08] <njpatel> james_w: yes :)
[19:09] <james_w> let me try
[19:09] <doctormo> That sounds like a scary thought, this is in C right?
[19:11] <james_w> yeah
[19:23] <tedg> james_w: I think that you need to annotate the XML file to note that the data shouldn't be free'd.
[19:23] <james_w> it's not going over the bus though
[19:23] <james_w> I wouldn't have thought that the XML would matter
[19:24] <tedg> james_w: Yes, you're annotating how the dbus-glib bindings are built for you.
[19:24] <james_w> plus it appears to work with NULL as the free_func :-)
[19:24] <njpatel> if you don't add the free_func, then the user_data should remain allocated
[19:24] <tedg> Oh, this is using it directly, not with generate API functions?
[19:25] <james_w> yeah
[19:25] <njpatel> not sure, james_w want to pastebin if it doesn't work?
[19:25] <james_w> well, the segfault has now gone, and I get the second call, so I'm happy for now, thanks :-)
[19:26] <njpatel> segfaults not happening is always good :)
[19:27] <james_w> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jamesw/nautilus-packagekit.diff
[19:29] <doctormo> james_w: How do you do that? upload data to your person?
[19:29] <james_w> doctormo: sorry?
[19:30] <doctormo> No wait, my mistake, thought that was launchpad
[22:00] <hyperair> say.. when will libindicate develop a libindicate-bin?
[22:00]  * hyperair thinks libindicate in an irssi script would be a good idea
[22:04] <james_w> it's tougher than libnotify
[22:04] <james_w> you have to persist for as long as the indicator
[22:05] <tedg> I guess you could build one that took unix signals...  that's be a little convoluted, but possible.
[22:06] <james_w> you could have one that just read commands from stdin
[22:06] <james_w> easy to get wrong
[22:06] <tedg> Heh, probably a better question would be, when is irssi going to get DBus support? ;)
[22:06] <james_w> they want it remote as well
[22:07] <james_w> and idea I had was write a dbus service that took a well known name on the session bus, and had methods like "CreateServer", "CreateIndicator" and the like
[22:07] <james_w> and did them for you
[22:07] <tedg> Heh, well, you *could* tunnel dbus... okay, I'm going to take my medicine and get off the crazy train ;)
[22:07] <james_w> they claim they are going to make it work over tcp or something one day :-)
[22:08] <tedg> james_w: You could really do that with DBus introspection.  It'd be interesting.
[22:08] <james_w> one day...
[22:08] <james_w> I don't need it for the apps I use luckily
[22:44] <james_w> urgh, indicators in xchat is going to be hard
[22:44] <james_w> well, good ones at least
[22:46] <ScottK> So how does one subscribe to the mailing list?
[22:48] <james_w> ScottK: it's moved to launchpad
[22:49] <james_w> you join ~ayatana and opt to subscribe
[22:49] <ScottK> So I have to join a team to talk on a list?
[22:49] <james_w> AIUI
[22:50] <ScottK> I guess it's so.
[22:52] <ScottK> That's sufficiently non-intuitive that it might be useful for someone to let people know.
[22:54] <james_w> yes
[22:55] <ScottK> james_w: Thanks for letting me know.
[22:55] <james_w> David said he was checking everything and would then reply to the list
[22:55] <james_w> it may be in the moderation queue
[22:55]  * ScottK nods
[22:55] <james_w> (the list being ubuntu-devel@)
[22:55] <ScottK> Right