=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === Andre_Gondim is now known as Andre_Gondim-afk === asac_ is now known as asac === tuxlinux_ is now known as tuxlinux [13:23] Hello [13:24] I've got a question for the catalan folks about UDS :) [13:25] they don't have a loco channel? [13:25] Well, i think they're around [13:25] That's the channel for the UDS, right ? :O [13:28] er, no? This is the channel for scheduled ubuntu meetings. [13:28] Ok, i failed then [13:28] Sorry :) === mariusb_ is now known as marius === ember_ is now known as ember === evand1 is now known as evand [16:00] #startmeeting [16:00] Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew. [16:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:00] hello :) [16:00] hello;) [16:00] Greetings folks. [16:01] yo [16:01] hi [16:01] * slangasek waves [16:02] hi [16:03] hi [16:04] * robbiew is more tired from a flight from Austin to San Francisco, than from Austin to London [16:04] :/ [16:04] Going to make this quick, so I can catch my free breakfast :P [16:04] heh [16:05] haha [16:06] [TOPIC] Jaunty [16:06] New Topic: Jaunty [16:06] Anyone have some nasty bugs that I should be aware of? [16:07] bug 356518 sort of worries me if only because there's absolutely no indication of what's going wrong [16:07] does it count that I can't read e-mail right now? [16:07] Launchpad bug 356518 in grub "HP ML110 fails to boot with grub after server install via PXE / serial console" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356518 [16:07] but you're already aware of that [16:07] yes...aware of that one [16:07] :) [16:08] ok...I'll take silence as goodness....and not folks are just too beat to talk [16:08] :P [16:09] james_w: have you got anywhere with bug 271962, or does it need help? [16:09] Launchpad bug 271962 in consolekit "VT-switching from X returns you to X the first time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271962 [16:09] yeah, I'm a bit stumped as to where to look, but I haven't spent much time on it [16:10] james_w: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html [16:10] 350016 has been milestoned by doko, it looks like the python.m4 in automake could use some love yet (rather than just relying on a horrible hack in python get_python_lib(), ugh) [16:10] ok [16:10] robbiew: well, I meant where to look in the code, but thanks :-p [16:10] james_w: heh [16:10] I know...just joking [16:11] I posted a couple of youtube videos on our boot performance [16:11] compared to Windows 7 [16:11] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVeSbuVB14 [16:11] LINK received: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVeSbuVB14 [16:12] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocYhEZlakXQ [16:12] LINK received: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocYhEZlakXQ [16:12] we are neck and neck on my X301 [16:12] but KILL on the eeePC 900 :) [16:13] about the same on Suspend/Resume on the X301 [16:13] very cool! [16:13] I did a bit of test rebuilding recently using the new LP-native test rebuild feature, but we had to stop it because it turned out to spam buildd admins [16:13] infinity is doing one using the old infrastructure now [16:13] I filed seven bugs just for packages starting with 'a' from my run, though [16:14] cjwatson: whoa [16:14] mostly universe, though [16:14] in fact I think all universe, so no cause for immediate panic [16:15] THE UNIVERSE IS BROKEN! WE ARE ALL GOING TO VANISH IN A BIG BANG! [16:15] BIG BANG = Computer Janitor Gets Overzealous [16:16] [TOPIC] Karmic [16:16] New Topic: Karmic [16:17] jono on us managers to start getting blueprints ready...so just an fyi [16:17] /s/on/is on [16:17] blueprints for the top-down items, or also for ideas from the team? [16:17] I will create the ones for the internal roadmap items, but if you have some...make sure to let me know [16:18] top-down and ideas :) [16:18] I think we plan on having the UDS schedule ready by April 27th [16:19] robbiew: let you know, or push them to the wiki? [16:19] wiki is cool, as I'm subscribed to it [16:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/May2009 [16:21] [TOPIC] OEM/Platform Exchange [16:21] New Topic: OEM/Platform Exchange [16:21] So...the Platform team was asked to exchange 3 engineers with the OEM team for 6 months [16:21] not permanent [16:22] to help both teams understand better what the other does...and how we work [16:22] 6 months is pretty permanent at this pace of development... :) [16:22] heh [16:22] doko has graciously accepted the challenge :) [16:22] so for clarification, the people who go visit the OEM team would do what? [16:22] OEM stuff [16:22] heh [16:23] So what happens with the toolchain work doko usually does? [16:23] they'll be working as regular members of the OEM team, more or less [16:23] TheMuso: opportunity for others to step up ;) [16:23] likewise, the people transferring to us will be working more or less as regular members of the platform team [16:23] we still need to work out the details [16:23] Ok [16:23] and I suspect doko will not be 100% gone [16:23] we would miss him :) [16:24] the toolchain is mostly ready for karmic, but: [16:24] mterry will be coming over to our team... [16:24] * we'll need people to keep an eye on glibc and gcc bugs, and forward them as appropriate (particularly in the case of gcc bugs that may block builds) [16:24] * somebody's going to need to keep OpenJDK ticking over [16:24] * Python 3.1 [16:24] (and related python issues) [16:25] just Python 3.1 and not all Python versions? [16:25] Python 3.1 is the bit that will involve most effort, I should think ... [16:26] doko can speak for himself on other things that he does, of course, but there is definitely some temporary handover needed; as robbiew says, hopefully we can use this as an opportunity for some cross-training [16:26] * liw would love to learn Python ;-) [16:27] (otoh, I'd even more love to write stuff in Python, but hey...) [16:27] * robbiew puts liw down for python [16:27] :P [16:28] hm, doko is also the Python maintainer in Debian [16:28] doko mentioned to me that he was likely to continue doing some things in his spare time where he's the Debian maintainer [16:28] right [16:28] there are still a lot of details to work out on both sides [16:28] I don't think we can fairly expect to rely on him for Ubuntu work; obviously he'd be welcome but it wouldn't be fair to expect it [16:29] but wanted to let folks know now [16:29] right [16:29] We are also getting a "loaner" from the Launchpad team :) [16:30] Muharem will be doing a short tour of the Foundations Tea [16:30] Team [16:30] (we don't have to send anyone back) [16:30] cjwatson: how long? I've forgotten :/ [16:30] I think the current plan is three months [16:30] right, thnx [16:31] he's one of the Soyuz developers, as many of you will know, and part of the idea is to help them get a better idea of how we work from day to day [16:31] we've done some brainstorming, but suggestions for smallish projects tractable by a good Python programmer would be welcome [16:33] I'd offer to take the OEL challenge, however there is a fair amount of shifting sands with accessibility in the next 6-12 months, particularly speech wise, which I'd prefer to remain on top of. [16:33] OEM even [16:33] TheMuso: Thanks. we have our 3 platform team members for this round [16:34] but I'll keep that in mind for the next one...assuming there is one :P [16:34] I'd like to setup team mentors for both Mike Terry and Muharem [16:35] robbiew, what time zones are they in? [16:35] I think mvo would be good for Muharem :) [16:35] liw: Muharem is in Germany (I think) and Mike is in the Eastern US [16:37] evand would be good for Mike Terry...but he moved to the UK :/ [16:37] heh [16:39] though I am a mentor for hugh blemings (Kernel team)...and he's in australia [16:39] so it can work [16:39] but I suspect that we need closer timezones than US central and Australia for a technical mentoring relationship :) [16:40] [TOPIC] AOB/Good News? [16:40] New Topic: AOB/Good News? [16:40] * evand can still do it if there is no better fit [16:40] Yes, meeting times./ [16:40] ah yes [16:40] IIRC we only have Steve still in the US [16:40] Finland and US/Eastern have a couple of hours of overlapping time for 9-17 work hours, so if no-one else is better suited, I can expose my ignorance of everything and mentor mterry [16:40] Debconf? What are we supposed to do with respect to registration and travel? Is Maria handling this? [16:41] evand: yes, randa is handling...through the wiki page [16:41] good news: I upgraded my laptop to jaunty and only had to file two bugs; the upgrade itself was pretty smooth (except that we _really_ need to figure out something like ucf into dpkg proper so all pacakges get it) [16:41] are you listed on it? [16:41] yes [16:41] then your good [16:41] ok [16:41] robbiew: still waiting for a green light to answer the DebConf CfP [16:42] robbiew: still waiting for a green light to answer the DebConf CfP [16:42] robbiew, Debconf..sorted today... Im registering everyone [16:42] randa: ^^? [16:42] randa: is the call for papers issue resolved? [16:42] So... Meeting time for me is currently 1 AM, which works for me today due to heading away for the easter weekend, however this is a slightly annoying time for me. If the meeting were either 1 hour earlier, or 2 hours later, I could either stay up if earlier, and work early again if later [16:42] robbiew, give me a minute. Busy now, YES everything done. [16:43] randa: are we required to submit papers [16:43] ? [16:43] randa, yay [16:43] she used CAPS...so I will leave her alone now :) === kennymc0_ is now known as kennymc0 [16:43] cjwatson: no [16:43] robbiew, lol. Just a minute guys [16:43] randa: no worries...I need to get to the Linux Collaboration Summit in a few anyways [16:43] * liw is happy to move meeting time up to 9 hours earlier :-) [16:43] "resolved" would be that I know it's ok to submit the talk [16:43] which I still don't :) [16:44] TheMuso: Ok [16:45] TheMuso: let me check the Fridge Calendar to see what conflicts (if any) we have...then I'll let folks know which way we move it [16:45] moving the meeting 9 hours earlier sounds nice to me :) [16:45] robbiew: ok thanks [16:45] I suspect it will be earlier....not 9 hours earlier though [16:45] 9h would be ok for me too, but not much more :) [16:45] Earlier is fine, since I'll just stay up for it. [16:46] ok...gotta run to the Linux Collaboration Summit kickoff (in 15min) [16:46] #endmeeting [16:46] Meeting finished at 10:46. [16:46] thanks@ [16:46] thanks [16:46] have fun kicking off :) [16:46] thanks [16:46] heh [16:47] thanks [16:47] thanks [16:48] thanks [18:00] hey [18:00] Hello [18:00] Hi [18:00] * ogasawara waves [18:00] holas! [18:00] hello [18:00] Howdy [18:01] hey [18:01] bdmurray: meeting ping [18:02] heno: is that different to a normal ping :D [18:02] hi [18:02] ara is on holiday and I've pinged cr3 [18:02] ok, we can start! [18:02] #startmeeting [18:02] Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno. [18:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [18:03] [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro [18:03] New Topic: UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro [18:03] We celebrated the xorg hug day last Thursday [18:03] it was pretty good as you can see per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090402 [18:03] and we also got nice comments from the maintainer [18:04] Big Thanks to paulduf, gsmx, carlos3.14 and cwillu.com for their great work during the event [18:04] Tomorrow we're going to have a Hug Day based on Bugs with Patches [18:05] the page and list of bugs is already up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090409 [18:05] and there's already people working on them ;-) [18:05] Yeah, I just saw somebody updated a patched bug with a debdiff [18:05] and i need to inform that i'm not going to be around tomorrow (i'm taking a holiday) [18:06] so if any of you guys can be around #ubuntu-bugs to help people there would be perfect [18:06] I'll be there! [18:07] I'm sure the documentation that bdmurray set up will help a lot :-) [18:07] thanks bdmurray [18:07] great, thanks pedro_ and bdmurray [18:07] [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray [18:07] New Topic: New bug control members! -- bdmurray [18:08] No news this week. [18:08] ok [18:08] [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- heno [18:08] New Topic: Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- heno [18:08] Didn't really happen I was too busy an ara is on hols [18:09] We sort of botched this one in Ara's absence :( [18:09] next week will be smoke testing [18:09] We didn't send out an announcement the week before [18:09] heno: I thought there was one on the friday [18:10] right, next week it starts getting serious with RC smoke testing [18:10] davmor2: on the blog? [18:10] heno: pass I might of been dreaming [18:11] I don't see one [18:11] heno: me then :) [18:11] we should start smoke testing ISOs tomorrow/Friday really [18:12] I know davmor2 has already started [18:12] what do you mean smoke testing [18:12] sbeattie: are you running some upgrade testing? [18:12] jtholmes: general testing [18:13] heno: oh did they get unfrozen [18:13] yes, I've been doing some upgrade testing, will do more. [18:13] hasn't mvo automated upgrade testing with ec2? [18:14] heno: mvo froze them on friday I didn't know they had been unfrozen [18:14] jtholmes: we do a quick sanity test of as many ISO images as possible to make sure they are generally in good shape for full validation testing next week [18:15] heno gotcha [18:15] yes, upgrades have been unfrozen, the issue around python-central/python2.6-minimal has been fixed. [18:15] davmor2: ^^^ [18:15] sbeattie: cool ta === tuxlinux_ is now known as tuxlinux [18:16] * sbeattie got hit by it on one machine, so was quite interested in its resolution. [18:16] * davmor2 plans upgrades on hw tomorrow then :) [18:16] bdmurray: he does some scripted testing but I sleep better when we supplement that with some testing of more real-world over-loaded installs [18:17] heno: makes sense, I wonder if we could use his infrastructure / tools though [18:17] finally on testing days: the one after next will also be ISO smoke testing [18:18] the next two weeks will be continual ISO testing really [18:18] fader_: how broad is our automated install coverage now? [18:18] heno: and lot's of it :D [18:18] bdmurray: I'll talk with him about it. [18:18] all alternates i386 and amd64 every day? :) [18:19] heno: We're getting the official builds: desktop, server, kubuntu, ubuntu studio, and alternate [18:19] Both i386 and amd64, yes [18:19] fader_: did cjwatson say whether his fix for lvm worked? [18:19] fader_: do we have a way of seeing if there are gaps in that coverage? [18:19] heno: It's still high on my list to get a better report that reflects the breadth of testing we're getting, so we don't have a good way of seeing gaps right now [18:20] is the distribution random or pre-determined? [18:20] davmor2: He thinks it did... we should know soon. I'll be watching it for the next couple of days to see if it happens again. [18:20] I have been testing 386 ios's ubuntu and kubuntu every day for the last week and plan to continue [18:21] heno: The distribution happens as CD images are posted, so as soon as a new image is posted it gets put into the queue to be tested [18:21] jtholmes: that's great! How are you reporting any bugs you find? [18:21] So it's semi-deterministic? :) [18:21] thru lp [18:21] Do you also add then to iso.qa.ubuntu.com? [18:21] jtholmes: great! please let us know in #ubuntu-testing if anything turn up broken [18:21] heno: what kind of gaps might you have in mind? like that some flavour is not being tested for an extended period of time? [18:22] bdmurray: not for smoketests [18:22] bdmurray, no I did not know about that will look there though and note any [18:22] heno: one thing we could do is make the builds page on the certification website publicly accessible, it doesn't contain any private data [18:22] heno ok will do [18:22] fader_: ok, so semi-random we would see failures if the right ISOs get picked [18:23] cr3: interesting, let's look at that afterwards [18:23] fader_: what happens when more than one image is released in a day? [18:23] heno: Right... at the moment we might potentially miss an error in one flavor if another flavor were consistently being tested after it every time [18:23] heno: In practice I think the probability of this is reasonably low, but it's still something I'm aware of [18:23] ok [18:23] davmor2: They get queued up and tested one after another [18:24] fader_: ah okay cool [18:24] davmor2: cr3 has created a very nice system for scheduling the tests and making sure the images are all getting picked up [18:24] [TOPIC] UbuntuOpenWeek call for topics! -- jcastro [18:24] New Topic: UbuntuOpenWeek call for topics! -- jcastro [18:25] davmor2: I detect every image which appears on cdimage.u.c and releases.u.c which get enqueued for testing [18:26] We can certainly do a desktop automation session [18:26] we have done some general triage sessions in the past [18:27] should we done some where we focus in more detail on a package? [18:28] a "writing apport hooks" topic? [18:28] sbeattie: that's more appropriate for Developer week I think [18:28] How about we announce our intention to do that and ask the community to suggest which packages we should cover triage for? [18:28] bdmurray: ah, okay. [18:28] btw the prep page is at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep [18:29] heno: how about checkbox always a fav [18:29] ok, jcastro doesn't seem to be here so we'll move on [18:30] davmor2: also for dev week I think [18:30] [TOPIC] QA team landing page - suggestions and additions -- schwuk [18:30] New Topic: QA team landing page - suggestions and additions -- schwuk [18:30] http://people.ubuntu.com/~schwuk/homepage/ [18:30] LINK received: http://people.ubuntu.com/~schwuk/homepage/ [18:30] Fairly self explanatory - this is the start of the new QA landing page [18:30] nice [18:31] I like it... very nice [18:31] cool [18:31] There's some cleanup to be done, and more text added, but is there anything people would lkike to add? [18:31] schwuk: where should we collect feedback about missing items etc? [18:31] will you set up a wiki page? [18:31] would be nice to add the upcoming events related to qa? like hug days, testing days, meetings ? [18:32] heno: yes [18:32] pedro_: agreed [18:32] pedro_: +1 [18:32] pedro_: +1 [18:32] we need an easy way for many people to edit that [18:32] something like a revision control system [18:33] right, a file in restricted access bzr [18:33] yeah git [18:33] * pedro_ runs [18:33] heh [18:33] * schwuk chases pedro_ with a stick [18:33] hehe [18:33] * davmor2 lends schwuk his hammer it hurts more than a stick [18:34] The homepage will be moved to a bzr branch soon, but the events could be pulled from anywhere e.g. a QA Team calendar [18:34] can we pull the QA only events out of fridge's calendar? [18:34] we're adding those to the fridge [18:34] schwuk: is there a qa-calendar? [18:34] sbeattie: I'm sure we can [18:35] schwuk: will you research a suitable solution to that? [18:35] heno: yes [18:35] when should we aim to roll this out properly? [18:35] that would be ideal, given how poorly we are at updating the wiki page header. [18:35] I'm creating a page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/HomePage to track comments etc. [18:36] heno: after jaunty [18:36] it would be good to have it for open week [18:36] when is that again? [18:37] 27th+ [18:38] schwuk: shall we milestone the roll-out for the 27th? [18:38] heno: sure [18:38] (it's almost ready now IMO) [18:38] thanks [18:39] [TOPIC] Bugsquad mentors project -- pedro|heno [18:39] New Topic: Bugsquad mentors project -- pedro|heno [18:39] We were talking about doing more active mentoring of people starting out with triage [18:40] similar to the MOTU program [18:40] pedro_: do you have a link to the MOTU one? [18:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring [18:40] where a new triager would have a contact point [18:41] this would also encourage specialisation [18:41] developers and bug control folks should be encouraged to mentor [18:42] any volunteer mentors in this meeting? (and is this a good idea?) [18:42] right now we have only a list of people to contact if you need help with something https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Contacts [18:42] but not a lot of people know about that list and i wonder how many of the people listed there was contacted [18:44] I get contacted a lot but I'm not sure its because of that list. ;-) [18:44] bdmurray: it's also tricky to identify a speciality for you :) [18:45] bdmurray, contact by email or irc or??? [18:45] there is a student column on the page so we can try to balance out the mentoring load [18:45] heno: no bdmurray=Bug Dude [18:46] davmor2: so do people misinterpret that as "Dude to bug about bugs"? [18:46] e-mail, irc, via launchpad [18:46] sbeattie: is regression/sru triage a category in this context? [18:46] cr3: either way the bugs get fixed :) [18:47] heno: sure. [18:48] bdmurray: anything you'd care more to mentor than other things? apport-hook issues? [18:49] heno: crazy bug queries, consolidating duplicates, writing apport-hooks / package bug guidelines [18:50] heno: update-manager / compiz as packages [18:50] iow, 'advanced bug management techniques' [18:50] ok, cool [18:50] that's a good start [18:52] I'll update the wiki and email the dev list asking for other topic mentors [18:52] Any other business? [18:52] yes [18:53] the test cases [18:53] starting with the accessories section [18:53] terminal calculator text editor [18:53] the same names should be used in ubuntu and kubuntu test cases [18:54] ref: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Applications [18:54] but to do that they have to have a prefix etc. any ideas [18:54] jtholmes: Right realised what you on about now just name them like this /kubuntu/calculator [18:54] or calculatorku calculatorub and then both can have texeditor as page name [18:54] jumping in. do the test cases cover checking translations? [18:55] Riddell: no but good point [18:55] davmor2, ok can do [18:56] only gets a brief mention in ISO test cases AFAIR [18:56] davmor2: that's pretty important, especially since we just changed important parts of our translation setup [18:56] Riddell: I think I did for keyboard and lanuage selection [18:56] language even [18:57] we should probably just have a separate translations test case or plan [18:57] fader_: can you work with davmor2 to design one? [18:58] heno: I can add it to system tests and it can get pulled into various tests from there [18:58] heno: Sure [18:58] right and we can then have a plan that pulls in that intro plus various other desktop tests [18:58] fader_: I'll throw an outline together tomorrow morning for that [18:58] thanks fader_ and davmor2 [18:59] davmor2: Thanks! :D [18:59] AOB? [18:59] Yeah, I just learned about a new feature of apport-collect I wanted to share [18:59] ok [19:00] One can use 'apport-collect -p compiz 1345' to add the compiz package hook information to any bug. [19:00] well to bug 1345 ;-) [19:00] Launchpad bug 1345 in malone "Activity log shouldn't say "XXX: not yet implemented"" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345 [19:00] bdmurray: nice [19:00] oops [19:01] oh, cool! [19:01] Additionally mdz just wrote a hook for alsa-base which will gather information similar to alsa-info.sh [19:01] bdmurray: why not just use alsa-info.sh? [19:01] nice [19:02] So we could ask sound related kernel bugs to run 'apport-collect -p alsa-base 1345' [19:02] is there a pulse one yet [19:02] cr3: alsa-info.sh uploads a text blob to a pastebin [19:02] davmor2: not yet, its on the list [19:02] cr3: the apport hook separates the different info into nice attachments and uploads to launchpad [19:02] and it will collect on crashes [19:02]