| akgraner | nhandler: Iearned how to edit wiki's today...are there any that needed to be reviewed for typos and grammar? or where do I go to find out? | 00:24 |
|---|---|---|
| akgraner | well I need to fix my own typo's too as evidence of early sentence...ugh:) | 00:25 |
| jjesse | am i looking for the code for ubuntu-docs in the wrong spot? is it https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc? | 01:02 |
| jjesse | ah found it at: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc | 01:05 |
| j1mc | hi all | 04:08 |
| nhandler | Hey j1mc | 04:08 |
| OsamaK | Hello, is ubuntu documentation freeze in action? | 05:19 |
| emmajane | j1mc, hey :) | 05:27 |
| emmajane | j1mc, I got your registration!! | 05:28 |
| j1mc | emmajane: cool. :) | 05:29 |
| j1mc | i'm looking forward to the conference | 05:29 |
| j1mc | based on some of the conversations on the docteam mailing list, the gnome-doc mailing list, and being one of only two open-source doc'ers at a recent doc conference, i thought it would be helpful to attend. | 05:30 |
| emmajane | j1mc, me too :) | 05:30 |
| emmajane | j1mc, I just updated your account, so you should be able to edit the unconference pages now. | 05:30 |
| emmajane | j1mc, I'm just writing a quasi-reply to the docteam one. | 05:30 |
| j1mc | sure... it seems like we've had a lot more conversations than normal there lately. it can be a little contentious, but hopefully the conversations will bring about good things for the docteam and the docs. | 05:32 |
| OsamaK | again, any answer? | 05:54 |
| dtchen | OsamaK: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule | 05:58 |
| OsamaK | seen, but is it in action right now | 05:59 |
| dtchen | string freeze is in effect, yes | 06:00 |
| mdke | ho hum | 20:47 |
| philip_ | i can't get http://www.lynxworks.eu/editor/ to do anything useful, except chat on irc | 20:51 |
| mdke | chatting on irc is no mean feat | 20:54 |
| philip_ | it can be... mean | 20:56 |
| mdke | irc? | 20:58 |
| philip_ | oh, bad joke... just that communication (people) can be mean | 20:59 |
| mdke | they certainly can | 20:59 |
| mdke | ooh, golf | 21:00 |
| mdke | evening Rocket2DMn | 21:23 |
| Rocket2DMn | hey mdke , reading Wiki Team LP permissions thread right now | 21:25 |
| Rocket2DMn | like 50 emails today | 21:25 |
| Rocket2DMn | Ok mdke , I do like the idea of re-evaluating the team and subteam structure | 21:27 |
| Rocket2DMn | How do you propose dealing with new members who want to learn how to commit to bzr? | 21:29 |
| Rocket2DMn | I suppose as far ask LP teams are concerned we can keep those with AdminGroup privs and those with EditorGroup privs together | 21:31 |
| Rocket2DMn | I assume anybody can check out a bzr branch and commit to that, just not the main branch? | 21:33 |
| mdke | Rocket2DMn: new members learning how to commit to bzr don't really need a team | 21:37 |
| mdke | Rocket2DMn: but the idea is that there would be one open team, either ubuntu-doc itself or an ubuntu-doc-contributors, which interested people could join to show interest | 21:37 |
| mdke | yeah, lots of emails | 21:38 |
| Rocket2DMn | Yeah, I'm hashing out my idea right now, which actually has 2 "enthusiast" teams | 21:38 |
| mdke | I've had to give up for the time being to concentrate on getting the jaunty release out | 21:38 |
| Rocket2DMn | one for system doc, the other for wiki doc | 21:38 |
| mdke | that would my original idea | 21:38 |
| mdke | phil asked the question why two separate teams are necessary | 21:38 |
| Rocket2DMn | ah, ok, im just responding to the latest in the thread | 21:38 |
| mdke | I think he has a point | 21:38 |
| Rocket2DMn | The biggest reason I would see is because they are so different | 21:39 |
| mdke | that doesn't really matter for the purposes of showing interest though | 21:39 |
| mdke | keeping a single team kinda demonstrates that the two projects are part of the same team | 21:39 |
| Rocket2DMn | point taken | 21:39 |
| Rocket2DMn | what teams do we have now exactly? | 21:40 |
| mdke | too many :) | 21:42 |
| Rocket2DMn | hehe yeah, are we merging in xubuntu-doc and edubuntu-doc, etc? | 21:42 |
| mdke | https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/+members | 21:43 |
| Rocket2DMn | yeah im on that page | 21:43 |
| Rocket2DMn | :) | 21:43 |
| mdke | I think we should, yes. Those teams aren't really used for any purpose I'm aware of | 21:43 |
| mdke | but we'll need to discuss it, the meeting is a perfect opportunity | 21:43 |
| Rocket2DMn | so they all collapse into ubuntu-doc. I also so mention of combining ubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs, etc _packages_ but didnt read in detail | 21:43 |
| mdke | heh | 21:44 |
| mdke | that's another issue yeah | 21:44 |
| Rocket2DMn | Is that what spawned this convo? | 21:44 |
| Rocket2DMn | If you were to keep the separate packages, would you just have anybody in the privileged doc team be able to commit to any *-docs package? | 21:45 |
| Rocket2DMn | that is to say, the high level branch that becomes that package | 21:46 |
| mdke | let's start from the beginning | 21:46 |
| mdke | Launchpad distinguishes between distributions (like Ubuntu) and upstream projects | 21:46 |
| mdke | distributions have lots of packages | 21:47 |
| mdke | we currently use both packages (ubuntu-docs, kubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs, edubuntu-docs) and an upstream project (ubuntu-doc) | 21:47 |
| mdke | the upstream project has previously had all our code branches on it | 21:47 |
| mdke | the proposal is to make lots of upstream projects which match the packages, so we'd have one upstream project for each package | 21:48 |
| mdke | is that relatively clear? (Launchpad is quite complicated sometimes :) | 21:48 |
| Rocket2DMn | yeah, i was aware of all that except that the upstream project was actually used for packages | 21:49 |
| Rocket2DMn | that i didnt know | 21:50 |
| Rocket2DMn | guess it makes sense looking at the URLs though | 21:50 |
| mdke | the upstream project isn't used for packages | 21:52 |
| Rocket2DMn | mdke, ubuntu-core-doc team is the one that can currently commit? is it the only one? | 21:52 |
| mdke | but it can be linked to a package | 21:52 |
| Rocket2DMn | right | 21:52 |
| Rocket2DMn | sorry | 21:52 |
| mdke | Rocket2DMn: ubuntu-core-doc is the team that can commit to the branches owned by it (which is all our official ones) | 21:52 |
| Rocket2DMn | ok, this is what i was going to propose - http://paste.ubuntu.com/147901/ | 21:53 |
| mdke | that's kinda already out there | 21:55 |
| mdke | except you've renamed the ubuntu-core-doc team | 21:55 |
| mdke | if we decide on the structure, we can certainly have a debate about the best naming convention | 21:56 |
| Rocket2DMn | Yeah, I think if we are going to re-org, we should make sure we get it right, even if that is renaming. +1 for a good naming convention | 21:57 |
| mdke | the reason for using "ubuntu-core-doc" was that it is consistent with "ubuntu-core-dev", the development team | 21:57 |
| mdke | but I'm not particularly attached to it, although we've used it for a while so it has settled in | 21:57 |
| Rocket2DMn | Well, consistency is important, I don't have a problem leaving the name if it matches others | 21:58 |
| Rocket2DMn | ubuntu-core-wiki ? | 21:58 |
| Rocket2DMn | I'm not clear on privilege differences between the community docs and w.u.c | 21:59 |
| mdke | w.u.c is not part of our domain at all | 21:59 |
| Rocket2DMn | (i see your earlier email that basically matches my suggestion) | 21:59 |
| Rocket2DMn | ok, i thought that might be the case | 21:59 |
| mdke | I think the wiki team name should have "admin" in it, because it implies admin rights over the wiki | 21:59 |
| mdke | the ubuntu-core-doc team is different, it implies committing rights | 22:00 |
| mdke | phew | 22:00 |
| Rocket2DMn | ok, trying to match a convention | 22:00 |
| * mdke finishes importing and fixing all translations for Jaunty | 22:00 | |
| Rocket2DMn | ubuntu-core-wiki-admin - or is that too long? | 22:00 |
| Rocket2DMn | or ubuntu-core-doc-wiki | 22:00 |
| mdke | I don't think the names need to follow the same convention, because they imply different privileges completely, not the same | 22:00 |
| mdke | as long as they are under the ubuntu-doc umbrella team, I'm happy | 22:01 |
| Rocket2DMn | Ok, well, cant have much of a namng convention with only 2 or 3 subteams :) | 22:01 |
| mdke | true | 22:03 |
| Rocket2DMn | Alright, well naming conventions aside, I like the email you sent this morning, I guess it would have ben at 11:54 UTC | 22:04 |
| mdke | I sent too many emails today :( | 22:04 |
| Rocket2DMn | i'll reply to it | 22:10 |
| Rocket2DMn | mdke, what is dougie talking about re: adding the team to bugcontrol? | 22:17 |
| Rocket2DMn | should core-doc already be able to have full privs over ubuntu-docs packages? | 22:18 |
| mdke | Rocket2DMn: ideally, it would. But the privileges in Launchpad aren't subtle enough for that | 22:18 |
| mdke | Rocket2DMn: the bugcontrol team is the only one with privileges over Ubuntu bugs | 22:19 |
| mdke | I'm negotiating a solution with bmurray, but he has some issues about the idea | 22:19 |
| Rocket2DMn | ah, bummer you can assign a particular team full privs | 22:19 |
| Rocket2DMn | i can see why they might be opposed though | 22:19 |
| mdke | it's because the bugcontrol team has the ability to see crash dumps that might have private content in them | 22:20 |
| Rocket2DMn | that is one potential concern | 22:21 |
| Rocket2DMn | i also wouldnt want to grant a member of some team with control over a single app the ability to have the same control over all packages | 22:22 |
| mdke | we'll see what the solution is | 22:22 |
| mdke | it will probably be to encourage members to join ubuntu-bugcontrol separately | 22:23 |
| Rocket2DMn | I think that is fair. If you're going to give somebody the power, they should have to be approved for it like everybody else | 22:24 |
| Rocket2DMn | it also pushes blame away from you if a doc-team member does something stupid with other packages and the bosses come looking for the one who granted the user those privs | 22:24 |
| mdke | j1mc: do you have plans for importing xubuntu-docs translations? | 23:20 |
| j1mc | mdke: do i just export them from launchpad, and then add them to the docs? i think there's a script involved, too, right? the script that cuts them out if they aren't at least 75% complete? | 23:21 |
| mdke | j1mc: that's part of the packaging, you probably dont' need to worry about that bit. But there are other bits to worry about | 23:21 |
| j1mc | ok - any tips? | 23:22 |
| mdke | j1mc: what I thought we might do is invite one of the translation guys to help, he has shown a lot of interest in -docs translations recently and knows the tools well | 23:22 |
| j1mc | sounds great | 23:22 |
| mdke | j1mc: so you could work with him, if he is willing | 23:22 |
| j1mc | sure | 23:23 |
| mdke | lemme see | 23:23 |
| mdke | j1mc: in the meantime I'll outline the basic process | 23:24 |
| mdke | j1mc: step 1 is to download the translations from rosetta. Do you have a "Download" button in the middle at the top of https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/xubuntu-docs | 23:25 |
| j1mc | i have an 'overview / import queue' button | 23:26 |
| mdke | damn | 23:26 |
| j1mc | wait, one moment | 23:26 |
| j1mc | logging in... :) | 23:26 |
| j1mc | no, still no download buton | 23:26 |
| mdke | ok, you need special privileges to download all the translations at the same time. | 23:26 |
| mdke | either me or adi (the guy I'm talking about) can do it | 23:27 |
| j1mc | ah, ok | 23:27 |
| mdke | anyway, the translations arrive as a tar.gz, and you export them into the branch directory | 23:27 |
| j1mc | i can download all of the translations for each of the individual files, though. | 23:28 |
| j1mc | that would take longer | 23:28 |
| mdke | right | 23:28 |
| mdke | they have cranky names, so you rename them with the script that is called scripts/hack.sh (at least in ubuntu-docs that is what the script is called) | 23:28 |
| mdke | then, you use the translate.sh script to build translations and find errors with them | 23:28 |
| j1mc | do you have to put them in any special folder before renaming them? | 23:28 |
| mdke | no, you untar them and they have the same folder structure as our branch | 23:29 |
| j1mc | e.g., in the "basic-commands" folder for ... ah, ok | 23:29 |
| mdke | so they slot in | 23:29 |
| j1mc | right | 23:29 |
| mdke | there are always plenty of translations with errors, because translators don't follow the rules :( | 23:29 |
| mdke | the most time consuming bit is to fix those | 23:30 |
| j1mc | ok | 23:30 |
| j1mc | hm | 23:30 |
| j1mc | and this has to be done tonight? | 23:30 |
| j1mc | it's ok if it does... i'm just asking | 23:30 |
| mdke | j1mc: no, not necessarily. In theory, it would have been done today but things are generally a lot more flexible | 23:30 |
| mdke | I've often done them the weekend following the freeze | 23:30 |
| j1mc | ok | 23:30 |
| mdke | especially for xubuntu-docs (universe) it should be flexible | 23:30 |
| j1mc | right | 23:30 |
| * mdke checks out the xubuntu-docs branch | 23:31 | |
| mdke | hmm, the directory structure is a bit different to ubuntu-docs | 23:31 |
| mdke | the translation script might need some work to accomodate that | 23:32 |
| j1mc | grr, yes. um, someone switched them without consulting me. | 23:32 |
| mdke | I guess it was easier than fixing the packaging to fit the directory structure | 23:32 |
| j1mc | :/ | 23:33 |
| j1mc | the docs were in the other format for the last release, though. at least i think they were. | 23:33 |
| mdke | we'll fix them for karmic | 23:33 |
| j1mc | right | 23:33 |
| mdke | I really like what you've been saying about xubuntu and ubuntu getting closer | 23:33 |
| j1mc | cool. glad to hear it. | 23:34 |
| mdke | so, where did we get to about translations | 23:35 |
| mdke | the translate.sh script | 23:35 |
| mdke | that takes po files and turns them into xml | 23:35 |
| mdke | then validates the xml to output any errors | 23:36 |
| j1mc | untarring them, and getting them into the right folder | 23:36 |
| mdke | oh, have you downloaded some already? | 23:36 |
| j1mc | correcting the validation errors... that's just like correcting regular validation errors, right? | 23:36 |
| j1mc | no, i don't have the docs yet | 23:36 |
| j1mc | or, the translations yet | 23:36 |
| mdke | j1mc: exactly, yes | 23:37 |
| nhandler | mdke: I asked j1mc what the procedure was for becoming a member of the core-doc team. He only knew what he did to gain membership. We were also unable to find a wiki page explaining this. I know you are meant to contribute and demonstrate your abilities/knowledge, but then what? Do you apply on irc/mailing list? Do you wait for a meeting? Do you have to be no | 23:37 |
| mdke | nhandler: that cut off after "to be no" | 23:37 |
| mdke | nhandler: but the procedure is to send a few decent size patches which get reviewed positively, and then ask :) | 23:38 |
| * nhandler curses mibbit | 23:38 | |
| nhandler | mdke: Do you just ask on IRC? Or do you have to ask at a meeting? | 23:38 |
| mdke | nhandler: in any medium | 23:39 |
| nhandler | mdke: Ok, thanks a lot. This should probably be mentioned on the wiki somewhere | 23:39 |
| mdke | nhandler: yes, I agree. I think the process should be a lot clearer | 23:40 |
| j1mc | mdke: will it take a while to get translations downloaded for xubuntu docs? | 23:41 |
| mdke | j1mc: I'm still waiting for the email | 23:41 |
| j1mc | i'm not quite sure how i'll get them. ah, ok. | 23:41 |
| mdke | I'll send you a link when it arrives | 23:42 |
| j1mc | ok | 23:42 |
| mdke | then you can play around with them, and we'll speak again maybe tomorrow - nearly bed time here | 23:42 |
| j1mc | yeah, it takes a bit to generate them. it used to take longer, if i recall correctly. | 23:42 |
| j1mc | nhandler: thanks for the suggestion about the wiki, and for bringing up the topic. :) | 23:43 |
| mdke | it takes a hell of a long time yeah | 23:43 |
| j1mc | mdke: yeah, that sounds fine - if you can just send me the link when you get it, that would be great. | 23:44 |
| * mdke nods | 23:44 | |
| mdke | I couldn't get hold of adi | 23:44 |
| mdke | but I'll send him an email and copy you in | 23:44 |
| j1mc | ok | 23:44 |
| mdke | j1mc: ok, YGM. I'll catch you tomorrow, maybe over email | 23:50 |
| j1mc | YGM? | 23:50 |
| j1mc | sounds good. have a good rest | 23:50 |
| mdke | (you got mail) | 23:50 |
| mdke | cya | 23:50 |
| j1mc | got it. the link works. :) later. | 23:51 |
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