[00:24] nhandler: Iearned how to edit wiki's today...are there any that needed to be reviewed for typos and grammar? or where do I go to find out? [00:25] well I need to fix my own typo's too as evidence of early sentence...ugh:) [01:02] am i looking for the code for ubuntu-docs in the wrong spot? is it https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc? [01:05] ah found it at: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc [04:08] hi all [04:08] Hey j1mc [05:19] Hello, is ubuntu documentation freeze in action? [05:27] j1mc, hey :) [05:28] j1mc, I got your registration!! [05:29] emmajane: cool. :) [05:29] i'm looking forward to the conference [05:30] based on some of the conversations on the docteam mailing list, the gnome-doc mailing list, and being one of only two open-source doc'ers at a recent doc conference, i thought it would be helpful to attend. [05:30] j1mc, me too :) [05:30] j1mc, I just updated your account, so you should be able to edit the unconference pages now. [05:30] j1mc, I'm just writing a quasi-reply to the docteam one. [05:32] sure... it seems like we've had a lot more conversations than normal there lately. it can be a little contentious, but hopefully the conversations will bring about good things for the docteam and the docs. [05:54] again, any answer? [05:58] OsamaK: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule [05:59] seen, but is it in action right now [06:00] string freeze is in effect, yes [20:47] ho hum [20:51] i can't get http://www.lynxworks.eu/editor/ to do anything useful, except chat on irc [20:54] chatting on irc is no mean feat [20:56] it can be... mean [20:58] irc? [20:59] oh, bad joke... just that communication (people) can be mean [20:59] they certainly can [21:00] ooh, golf [21:23] evening Rocket2DMn [21:25] hey mdke , reading Wiki Team LP permissions thread right now [21:25] like 50 emails today [21:27] Ok mdke , I do like the idea of re-evaluating the team and subteam structure [21:29] How do you propose dealing with new members who want to learn how to commit to bzr? [21:31] I suppose as far ask LP teams are concerned we can keep those with AdminGroup privs and those with EditorGroup privs together [21:33] I assume anybody can check out a bzr branch and commit to that, just not the main branch? [21:37] Rocket2DMn: new members learning how to commit to bzr don't really need a team [21:37] Rocket2DMn: but the idea is that there would be one open team, either ubuntu-doc itself or an ubuntu-doc-contributors, which interested people could join to show interest [21:38] yeah, lots of emails [21:38] Yeah, I'm hashing out my idea right now, which actually has 2 "enthusiast" teams [21:38] I've had to give up for the time being to concentrate on getting the jaunty release out [21:38] one for system doc, the other for wiki doc [21:38] that would my original idea [21:38] phil asked the question why two separate teams are necessary [21:38] ah, ok, im just responding to the latest in the thread [21:38] I think he has a point [21:39] The biggest reason I would see is because they are so different [21:39] that doesn't really matter for the purposes of showing interest though [21:39] keeping a single team kinda demonstrates that the two projects are part of the same team [21:39] point taken [21:40] what teams do we have now exactly? [21:42] too many :) [21:42] hehe yeah, are we merging in xubuntu-doc and edubuntu-doc, etc? [21:43] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/+members [21:43] yeah im on that page [21:43] :) [21:43] I think we should, yes. Those teams aren't really used for any purpose I'm aware of [21:43] but we'll need to discuss it, the meeting is a perfect opportunity [21:43] so they all collapse into ubuntu-doc. I also so mention of combining ubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs, etc _packages_ but didnt read in detail [21:44] heh [21:44] that's another issue yeah [21:44] Is that what spawned this convo? [21:45] If you were to keep the separate packages, would you just have anybody in the privileged doc team be able to commit to any *-docs package? [21:46] that is to say, the high level branch that becomes that package [21:46] let's start from the beginning [21:46] Launchpad distinguishes between distributions (like Ubuntu) and upstream projects [21:47] distributions have lots of packages [21:47] we currently use both packages (ubuntu-docs, kubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs, edubuntu-docs) and an upstream project (ubuntu-doc) [21:47] the upstream project has previously had all our code branches on it [21:48] the proposal is to make lots of upstream projects which match the packages, so we'd have one upstream project for each package [21:48] is that relatively clear? (Launchpad is quite complicated sometimes :) [21:49] yeah, i was aware of all that except that the upstream project was actually used for packages [21:50] that i didnt know [21:50] guess it makes sense looking at the URLs though [21:52] the upstream project isn't used for packages [21:52] mdke, ubuntu-core-doc team is the one that can currently commit? is it the only one? [21:52] but it can be linked to a package [21:52] right [21:52] sorry [21:52] Rocket2DMn: ubuntu-core-doc is the team that can commit to the branches owned by it (which is all our official ones) [21:53] ok, this is what i was going to propose - http://paste.ubuntu.com/147901/ [21:55] that's kinda already out there [21:55] except you've renamed the ubuntu-core-doc team [21:56] if we decide on the structure, we can certainly have a debate about the best naming convention [21:57] Yeah, I think if we are going to re-org, we should make sure we get it right, even if that is renaming. +1 for a good naming convention [21:57] the reason for using "ubuntu-core-doc" was that it is consistent with "ubuntu-core-dev", the development team [21:57] but I'm not particularly attached to it, although we've used it for a while so it has settled in [21:58] Well, consistency is important, I don't have a problem leaving the name if it matches others [21:58] ubuntu-core-wiki ? [21:59] I'm not clear on privilege differences between the community docs and w.u.c [21:59] w.u.c is not part of our domain at all [21:59] (i see your earlier email that basically matches my suggestion) [21:59] ok, i thought that might be the case [21:59] I think the wiki team name should have "admin" in it, because it implies admin rights over the wiki [22:00] the ubuntu-core-doc team is different, it implies committing rights [22:00] phew [22:00] ok, trying to match a convention [22:00] * mdke finishes importing and fixing all translations for Jaunty [22:00] ubuntu-core-wiki-admin - or is that too long? [22:00] or ubuntu-core-doc-wiki [22:00] I don't think the names need to follow the same convention, because they imply different privileges completely, not the same [22:01] as long as they are under the ubuntu-doc umbrella team, I'm happy [22:01] Ok, well, cant have much of a namng convention with only 2 or 3 subteams :) [22:03] true [22:04] Alright, well naming conventions aside, I like the email you sent this morning, I guess it would have ben at 11:54 UTC [22:04] I sent too many emails today :( [22:10] i'll reply to it [22:17] mdke, what is dougie talking about re: adding the team to bugcontrol? [22:18] should core-doc already be able to have full privs over ubuntu-docs packages? [22:18] Rocket2DMn: ideally, it would. But the privileges in Launchpad aren't subtle enough for that [22:19] Rocket2DMn: the bugcontrol team is the only one with privileges over Ubuntu bugs [22:19] I'm negotiating a solution with bmurray, but he has some issues about the idea [22:19] ah, bummer you can assign a particular team full privs [22:19] i can see why they might be opposed though [22:20] it's because the bugcontrol team has the ability to see crash dumps that might have private content in them [22:21] that is one potential concern [22:22] i also wouldnt want to grant a member of some team with control over a single app the ability to have the same control over all packages [22:22] we'll see what the solution is [22:23] it will probably be to encourage members to join ubuntu-bugcontrol separately [22:24] I think that is fair. If you're going to give somebody the power, they should have to be approved for it like everybody else [22:24] it also pushes blame away from you if a doc-team member does something stupid with other packages and the bosses come looking for the one who granted the user those privs [23:20] j1mc: do you have plans for importing xubuntu-docs translations? [23:21] mdke: do i just export them from launchpad, and then add them to the docs? i think there's a script involved, too, right? the script that cuts them out if they aren't at least 75% complete? [23:21] j1mc: that's part of the packaging, you probably dont' need to worry about that bit. But there are other bits to worry about [23:22] ok - any tips? [23:22] j1mc: what I thought we might do is invite one of the translation guys to help, he has shown a lot of interest in -docs translations recently and knows the tools well [23:22] sounds great [23:22] j1mc: so you could work with him, if he is willing [23:23] sure [23:23] lemme see [23:24] j1mc: in the meantime I'll outline the basic process [23:25] j1mc: step 1 is to download the translations from rosetta. Do you have a "Download" button in the middle at the top of https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/xubuntu-docs [23:26] i have an 'overview / import queue' button [23:26] damn [23:26] wait, one moment [23:26] logging in... :) [23:26] no, still no download buton [23:26] ok, you need special privileges to download all the translations at the same time. [23:27] either me or adi (the guy I'm talking about) can do it [23:27] ah, ok [23:27] anyway, the translations arrive as a tar.gz, and you export them into the branch directory [23:28] i can download all of the translations for each of the individual files, though. [23:28] that would take longer [23:28] right [23:28] they have cranky names, so you rename them with the script that is called scripts/hack.sh (at least in ubuntu-docs that is what the script is called) [23:28] then, you use the translate.sh script to build translations and find errors with them [23:28] do you have to put them in any special folder before renaming them? [23:29] no, you untar them and they have the same folder structure as our branch [23:29] e.g., in the "basic-commands" folder for ... ah, ok [23:29] so they slot in [23:29] right [23:29] there are always plenty of translations with errors, because translators don't follow the rules :( [23:30] the most time consuming bit is to fix those [23:30] ok [23:30] hm [23:30] and this has to be done tonight? [23:30] it's ok if it does... i'm just asking [23:30] j1mc: no, not necessarily. In theory, it would have been done today but things are generally a lot more flexible [23:30] I've often done them the weekend following the freeze [23:30] ok [23:30] especially for xubuntu-docs (universe) it should be flexible [23:30] right [23:31] * mdke checks out the xubuntu-docs branch [23:31] hmm, the directory structure is a bit different to ubuntu-docs [23:32] the translation script might need some work to accomodate that [23:32] grr, yes. um, someone switched them without consulting me. [23:32] I guess it was easier than fixing the packaging to fit the directory structure [23:33] :/ [23:33] the docs were in the other format for the last release, though. at least i think they were. [23:33] we'll fix them for karmic [23:33] right [23:33] I really like what you've been saying about xubuntu and ubuntu getting closer [23:34] cool. glad to hear it. [23:35] so, where did we get to about translations [23:35] the translate.sh script [23:35] that takes po files and turns them into xml [23:36] then validates the xml to output any errors [23:36] untarring them, and getting them into the right folder [23:36] oh, have you downloaded some already? [23:36] correcting the validation errors... that's just like correcting regular validation errors, right? [23:36] no, i don't have the docs yet [23:36] or, the translations yet [23:37] j1mc: exactly, yes [23:37] mdke: I asked j1mc what the procedure was for becoming a member of the core-doc team. He only knew what he did to gain membership. We were also unable to find a wiki page explaining this. I know you are meant to contribute and demonstrate your abilities/knowledge, but then what? Do you apply on irc/mailing list? Do you wait for a meeting? Do you have to be no [23:37] nhandler: that cut off after "to be no" [23:38] nhandler: but the procedure is to send a few decent size patches which get reviewed positively, and then ask :) [23:38] * nhandler curses mibbit [23:38] mdke: Do you just ask on IRC? Or do you have to ask at a meeting? [23:39] nhandler: in any medium [23:39] mdke: Ok, thanks a lot. This should probably be mentioned on the wiki somewhere [23:40] nhandler: yes, I agree. I think the process should be a lot clearer [23:41] mdke: will it take a while to get translations downloaded for xubuntu docs? [23:41] j1mc: I'm still waiting for the email [23:41] i'm not quite sure how i'll get them. ah, ok. [23:42] I'll send you a link when it arrives [23:42] ok [23:42] then you can play around with them, and we'll speak again maybe tomorrow - nearly bed time here [23:42] yeah, it takes a bit to generate them. it used to take longer, if i recall correctly. [23:43] nhandler: thanks for the suggestion about the wiki, and for bringing up the topic. :) [23:43] it takes a hell of a long time yeah [23:44] mdke: yeah, that sounds fine - if you can just send me the link when you get it, that would be great. [23:44] * mdke nods [23:44] I couldn't get hold of adi [23:44] but I'll send him an email and copy you in [23:44] ok [23:50] j1mc: ok, YGM. I'll catch you tomorrow, maybe over email [23:50] YGM? [23:50] sounds good. have a good rest [23:50] (you got mail) [23:50] cya [23:51] got it. the link works. :) later.