[10:14] <mdke> morning all
[10:16] <mdke> bencrisford: you around?
[10:17] <bencrisford> I sure am :)
[10:17] <bencrisford> good morning ;)
[10:19] <mdke> bencrisford: morning :) We may have sorted out our timing issues now, and we'd like to move you back to Friday, and do our sessions on Tuesday, because one person can't make Friday. is that ok?
[10:19] <bencrisford> thats fine i guess
[10:20] <mdke> bencrisford: really sorry to mess you around over that
[10:20] <bencrisford> its fine
[10:20] <mdke> sure?
[10:20] <bencrisford> yeah
[10:20] <bencrisford> and i dont even have to change korganiser too much
[10:20] <bencrisford> because ill be attending your sessions anyway
[10:20] <mdke> :)
[10:21] <mdke> which time would you like on Friday? 19:00 UTC as before?
[10:21] <bencrisford> if possible yeah :)
[10:21] <mdke> yep, you get your pick of times on Friday, it's still quite free
[10:21] <bencrisford> :D
[10:22] <bencrisford> I can watch eastenders now :)
[10:23] <mdke> exactly
[10:23] <bencrisford> mdke: thanks for moving my time for me :), i was about to do that
[10:23] <bencrisford> one less thing to do
[10:23] <bencrisford> thanks ;)
[10:23] <mdke> no worries, thanks for being so flexible
[10:23] <mdke> ok, cya later
[10:23] <bencrisford> ok
[10:23] <bencrisford> cya
[11:26] <mdke> hiya adiroiban
[11:35] <adiroiban> hi
[11:36] <adiroiban> mdke: i can move my sessions earlier
[11:37] <adiroiban> if you think it's needed
[11:38] <mdke> adiroiban: for me they work slightly better a bit later, so that I have more time to get home from work. Do the times suit you ok at the moment?
[11:39] <adiroiban> yes
[11:39] <adiroiban> it's perfect :D
[11:39] <mdke> I guess for you the second one is at 22.00 LT?
[11:39] <mdke> ok, great
[11:39] <mdke> we can jiggle things around if we need to for other people
[11:41] <bencrisford> I'm looking forward to openweek already :D
[11:42] <mdke> :)
[12:02] <adiroiban> For the "Translating documentation" session i was thinking to include info about using Rosetta, testing translations, generating translated PDF, tips (ex translating documentation when not all UI is translated), how and how often the translation packages are pushed in Ubuntu, how to check for errors
[12:02] <adiroiban> should we create a wiki page
[12:03] <adiroiban> ?
[12:03] <adiroiban> or discuss over the mailing list?
[12:04] <mdke> adiroiban: maybe a wiki page will be cleaner.
[12:05] <mdke> adiroiban: I think it's important to cover how to make sure the tags are preserved and how to test; not sure about PDFs (we don't use them in the English version so it's probably not something necessary for translation)
[12:06] <adiroiban> i was thinkig to also cover the translations of Ubuntu Training
[12:06] <adiroiban> thinking
[12:07] <adiroiban> or they are different things
[12:07] <mdke> adiroiban: ah, yes I see - that would be quite cool
[12:08] <mdke> adiroiban: but treat it as a separate part of the session so that it's clear that it's a different task
[12:09] <adiroiban> i was using the translated "trainer" and "student" pdf version of Ubuntu Desktop training in various school in Romania
[12:09] <adiroiban> but I create a new session
[12:09] <adiroiban> but I  will create a new session
[12:10] <mdke> I think it can be covered in the same hour
[12:10] <mdke> that would be good
[12:10] <adiroiban> then we should have 2 session in the same hour?
[12:10] <adiroiban> then we should have two sessions in the same hour?
[12:11] <mdke> one session, but two sections
[12:11] <adiroiban> ok
[12:11] <mdke> I don't think translation of ubuntu-docs will take a full hour, so there will be time to cover training too, I think
[12:12] <adiroiban> yep. I feel the same
[12:12] <mdke> great
[12:12] <mdke> I have no experience with the training bit though, you'll have to cover that
[12:12] <bencrisford> Is this the translation hour?
[12:12] <mdke> yes
[12:12] <bencrisford> because I wasn't going to attend but if you guys think it'll be worth it i will
[12:13] <mdke> only if you are thinking of becoming a translator :)
[12:13] <bencrisford> it would help if i knew any languages i guess :P
[12:13] <adiroiban> :)
[12:13] <mdke> well, en_GB counts as a language
[12:13] <mdke> there is an en_GB translation team
[12:14] <bencrisford> but i would need to know another language also no?
[12:14] <bencrisford> or am i misunderstanding the system?
[12:14] <mdke> no, the en_GB team turns American English into British English
[12:14] <bencrisford> Oh, that sounds good i might look into that
[12:14] <adiroiban> mdke: I can handle the training part
[12:15] <mdke> adiroiban: great
[12:16] <bencrisford> the translation session is now marked in my KOrganiser :)
[12:16] <bencrisford> ive got 3 sessions in a row
[12:16] <bencrisford> :D
[12:17] <mdke> bencrisford: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-en-gb
[12:18] <bencrisford> ooh thanks :)
[12:19] <bencrisford> What are the requirements to join?
[12:20] <bencrisford> anything fancy?
[12:21] <mdke> I don't know
[12:21] <mdke> but if you follow the links you'll find out
[12:23] <bencrisford> Ok, I applied
[12:24] <bencrisford> so hopefully i'll get an email telling me
[12:24] <bencrisford> if I dont meet them already that it :)
[12:24] <bencrisford> is*
[12:24] <bencrisford> Maybe I just have to spell a really long word for them :D
[12:25] <mdke> I guess so
[12:25]  * mdke is afk for a while
[12:26] <bencrisford> ok
[12:51] <j1mc> adiroiban: are you around?
[12:52] <adiroiban> hi
[12:52] <adiroiban> yes
[12:52] <j1mc> hello :)
[12:53] <j1mc> if now is an ok time, we can go over importing the translations.  i haven't really had a chance to validate them yet.
[12:53] <adiroiban> i have start running the xml translating script
[12:54] <adiroiban> games and hardware translations are missing from Rosetta
[12:54] <adiroiban> do you know why ?
[12:54] <adiroiban> and they are not included in shipped-docs
[12:55] <j1mc> adiroiban: hmmm... that's strange
[12:55] <adiroiban> should I ignore them?
[12:55] <j1mc> let me check something
[12:55] <adiroiban> let me upload the current errors status
[12:56] <j1mc> o
[12:56] <j1mc> ok
[12:58] <j1mc> i need to modify the translate.sh script, don't i? because the xubuntu-docs layout is different
[13:01] <adiroiban> http://194.54.129.79/xubuntu-docs-jaunty/
[13:01] <adiroiban> you can move the scripts and libs folder in desktop-guide
[13:01] <adiroiban> and from there, the layout is identical
[13:02] <adiroiban> i am running a custom translate.sh script
[13:02] <adiroiban> to help me generate an error report
[13:03] <adiroiban> in add-applications.xml there is an erropr
[13:03] <adiroiban> error
[13:03] <adiroiban> http://194.54.129.79/xubuntu-docs-jaunty/report_xml/add-applications/ace.txt
[13:03] <j1mc> so just move the scripts and libs folders into the desktop guide itself?
[13:03] <adiroiban> yes
[13:04] <adiroiban> but I can run the translate script for you
[13:04] <adiroiban> first we should check the original xml files
[13:05] <adiroiban> games and hardware are part of the xubuntu-docs ?
[13:05] <j1mc> the link you provided... ace.txt ... does that indicate an error in the original xml?  how is that generated?
[13:05] <adiroiban> please update the  libs/shipped-docs with the current list of xml included in xubuntu-docs
[13:06] <adiroiban> i have moved the xubuntu-docs-index
[13:06] <adiroiban> into a separte folder
[13:06] <adiroiban> as it was in the root
[13:06] <adiroiban> and I have add it to ﻿libs/shipped-docs
[13:08] <adiroiban> the ace.txt was generated by running "xmllint"
[13:08] <adiroiban> there is a validate.sh script
[13:08] <j1mc> hm, games and and hardware are part of the shipped docs
[13:09] <adiroiban> ok
[13:09] <adiroiban> then we will need to import them in Rosetta
[13:09] <adiroiban> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/xubuntu-docs
[13:09] <j1mc> xubuntu-docs-index - is that the name of the actual file?
[13:09] <adiroiban> i can not see them here
[13:10] <adiroiban> index.xml
[13:10] <j1mc> understood
[13:10] <adiroiban> i have create the xubuntu-docs-index/C/
[13:10] <adiroiban> and moved the xml file there
[13:10] <adiroiban> to have the same layout for xml internationalization
[13:10] <j1mc> how can i import games and hardware.xml files into the import queue?
[13:11] <adiroiban> hm... yep.. xubuntu-docs are not in main
[13:11] <adiroiban> i will upload them
[13:11] <j1mc> adiroiban: that's correct.  xubuntu is in universe.
[13:11] <adiroiban> it's just that I didn't know why they are missing
[13:12] <adiroiban> for now we will not have the translations of hardware and games
[13:12] <adiroiban> but at least, i know what to do to solve it
[13:12] <mdke> it's because they are not listed in libs/shipped-docs
[13:12] <adiroiban> now let's check add-applications
[13:12] <mdke> so the get-pot.sh script misses them
[13:13] <mdke> so if you add them to libs/shipped-docs, then they will get imported
[13:14] <j1mc> ok
[13:14] <mdke> as for importing them, I think they should get imported from the branch if you upload the new pot files, Rosetta has added that feature now
[13:14] <mdke> or adiroiban can import them manually
[13:15] <adiroiban> mdke: does it work for packages outside of main ?
[13:15] <adiroiban> we are talking about ubuntu
[13:15] <j1mc> i've added them to libs/shipped-docs
[13:15] <adiroiban> and not the ubuntu-docs project
[13:15] <mdke> adiroiban: I think it should - ROsetta gets pot files from branches now, as well as from package uploads
[13:16] <j1mc> if i run the get-pot.sh, will it refresh the pot files, including games and hardware?
[13:16] <mdke> and the xubuntu-docs project is linked to the package for translations
[13:16] <adiroiban> does this applied to distributions?
[13:16] <adiroiban> i think this feature is available only for projects
[13:16] <mdke> adiroiban: I think the link between the project and the package should do the trick, but I'm not 100% sure
[13:16] <adiroiban> j1mc: try
[13:16] <adiroiban> mdke: i'm not sure it will
[13:17] <adiroiban> i will check with Rosetta guys and Arne
[13:17] <mdke> for speed, it's probably better to add manually too, I guess
[13:17] <adiroiban> mdke: i don't know how?
[13:17] <adiroiban> mdke: i don't know how. can you do it?
[13:18] <mdke> hmm
[13:18] <mdke> let me see
[13:18] <adiroiban> i don't see any upload button
[13:18] <adiroiban> I can only upload updated pot files
[13:19] <adiroiban> j1mc: why do we have a different folders layout in xubuntu-docs?
[13:19] <adiroiban> i was thinking to use the same layout as ubuntu-docs
[13:19] <mdke> damn, I can't see an upload button either
[13:19] <adiroiban> and it will be easier to share script
[13:19] <adiroiban> scripts
[13:20] <mdke> adiroiban: we'll rearrange the folder structure for karmic but I think it's too risky to change it now for jaunty
[13:20] <j1mc> adiroiban: it was changed around by someone when they went to build the package for me.  i'll change the structure to match ubuntu docs for karmic.
[13:21] <adiroiban> ok
[13:21] <adiroiban> it's ok for karmin
[13:21] <j1mc> i've rerun the get-pot.sh
[13:21] <adiroiban> karmic
[13:21] <j1mc> :)
[13:21] <mdke> j1mc: go ahead and push the new pot files to the branch
[13:21] <j1mc> i removed the reference in the get-pot.sh script to .omf files, as we don't use them in xubuntu
[13:22] <adiroiban> mdke: for karmic, maybe we can implement the bzr branch sync in Rosetta
[13:22]  * mdke nods
[13:22] <mdke> adiroiban: yeah
[13:22] <adiroiban> mdke: but in this way ubuntu-docs will not be listed in the main ubuntu list
[13:22] <j1mc> grr... i was working in the karmic branch, need to refresh the pot files in the jaunty branch
[13:24] <mdke> adiroiban: we're evaluating some issues about Launchpad structure for karmic at the moment, we'll see how it turns out
[13:27] <j1mc> i modified the shipped-docs and reran the get-pot.sh script, but it doesn't appear to have generated new pot templates for games and hardware
[13:28] <mdke> what was the output of the script?
[13:28] <mdke> did it include games and hardware?
[13:29] <mdke> maybe you're running into an issue with the directory structure as "libs" has been moved to under desktop-guide, so you'll need to move the scripts directory too, as adi suggested
[13:29]  * mdke pops for lunch
[13:30] <adiroiban> mdke:  Bon Appétit :)
[13:30] <j1mc> mdke: good suggestion, but i had moved the scripts file into the desktop guide temporarily before running get-pot.sh
[13:30] <adiroiban> j1mc: i can look into that problem
[13:31] <j1mc> mdke: enjoy your lunch :)
[13:31] <j1mc> adiroiban: thanks
[13:32] <adiroiban> j1mc: we should run xmllint on add-applications and see how to fix it
[13:32] <j1mc> adiroiban: the xubuntu docs are a bit different than the ubuntu docs.
[13:33] <j1mc> ours are kind of a meta-document, beginning from the index.xml file
[13:33] <j1mc> if you look at the index.xml file, it provides links to each of the other xml documents
[13:33] <adiroiban> i see
[13:34] <j1mc> so we validate index.xml
[13:34] <j1mc> the individual documents themselves will show broken links, but if index.xml validates, then it is ok.
[13:34] <adiroiban> that's right
[13:35] <j1mc> i've clicked on the links within the actual html output, and they work, so we should be ok.
[13:38] <adiroiban> i have ran the get-po.sh script
[13:38] <adiroiban> (after deleting the omf check)
[13:38] <adiroiban> and the hardware.pot and games.pot files have been generated
[13:39] <j1mc> great :) thanks
[13:40] <adiroiban> i will check with Rosetta guys and see how we can have them uploaded
[13:40] <j1mc> adiroiban: thanks
[13:41] <adiroiban> this is the page with "administrative" link ? http://194.54.129.79/xubuntu-docs-jaunty/html/add-applications/ace/gnome-app-install.html
[13:43] <j1mc> adiroiban: are you running jaunty?
[13:44] <adiroiban> right now I'm in hardy
[13:44] <adiroiban> but I can reboot
[13:44] <j1mc> hm, ok.  np
[13:44] <j1mc> i've tested it on my jaunty install with xubuntu-docs 9.04.1, and it works
[13:44] <adiroiban> ok
[13:45] <j1mc> links to "administrative tasks" via an "administrative" link work.
[13:45] <adiroiban> for now we can ignore the "linkend references" errors
[13:45] <adiroiban> i will modify my scripts to include the index.xml
[13:48] <j1mc> thanks, adiroiban
[13:54] <adiroiban> we will need to see how to add i18n support in libs/xubuntu.ent
[13:55] <adiroiban> all those string are not translated
[13:55] <j1mc> do files in the libs folder need to be translated?  i don't understand
[13:56] <j1mc> the menu references don't get translated?  so if i say go to File > Open ...
[13:56] <adiroiban> if they are string
[13:56] <j1mc> that doesn't get translated?
[13:57] <adiroiban> let me check
[13:57] <adiroiban> but at a first look i don't think they are translated
[14:02] <adiroiban> it's ok
[14:03]  * j1mc is relieved :)
[14:04] <adiroiban> no, it's not ok
[14:04] <adiroiban> :(
[14:05] <adiroiban> http://194.54.129.79/xubuntu-docs-jaunty/html/add-applications/it/gnome-app-install.html
[14:05] <adiroiban> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/xubuntu-docs/+pots/add-applications/it/54/+translate
[14:05] <j1mc> hm... "the section called"  :(
[14:05] <adiroiban> the <xref linkend="advanced"/> strings are not translated
[14:06] <j1mc> that doesn't seem italian. :(
[14:06] <adiroiban> and that string can not be translated
[14:06] <adiroiban> in Rosetta
[14:07] <adiroiban> we can upload in xubuntu.ent.pot file
[14:07] <adiroiban> and then for each xml, include the translated ent file
[14:08] <j1mc> this is not a problem in ubuntu docs?
[14:08] <adiroiban> there are no such links in ubuntu-docs
[14:09] <adiroiban> .... we have gnome-menus.ent
[14:09] <adiroiban> in ubuntu-docs
[14:10] <j1mc> right
[14:10] <j1mc> they are both just .ent files, though, so i don't understand why one would work, and one wouldn't work.
[14:10] <adiroiban> i don't know... i'm investigating
[14:15] <mdke> adiroiban: you don't need an ent.pot file, entitites are expanded and included in pot files for the relevant document
[14:15] <mdke> that's what the -e flag to xml2po does
[14:16] <mdke> not sure what causes that error though
[14:16] <adiroiban> yes. the ent is included in the translated xml
[14:17] <adiroiban> but I can not find the source for "the section called"
[14:17] <adiroiban> same page: ubuntu-docs http://l10n.ubuntu.tla.ro/ubuntu-docs-jaunty/html/add-applications/it/offline.html#aptoncd
[14:17] <adiroiban> xubuntu-docs: http://194.54.129.79/xubuntu-docs-jaunty/html/add-applications/it/offline.html#APTonCD
[14:18] <mdke> there is no source for that
[14:18] <mdke> it is added by the xsl when the html is built, it's automatic for ulink links
[14:18] <mdke> do you see the error when opening the translated xml file in yelp?
[14:20] <adiroiban> no
[14:20] <adiroiban> and the xml is translated
[14:20] <mdke> ok, so it's a problem with the html build process
[14:21] <adiroiban> well in yelp instead of "the section called - X" , we have "Section 1 - X"
[14:22] <mdke> hmm
[14:22] <mdke> what's the value of the entity "language" in index.xml?
[14:22] <adiroiban> and I  think this is a yelp string
[14:23] <adiroiban> en
[14:23] <mdke> adiroiban: when yelp displays xml, it converts them to html on the fly. It uses simple xsl from gnome-doc-utils to transform it
[14:24] <mdke> so that xsl turns <xref linkend=""/> to "Section X - Y"
[14:24] <adiroiban> in the Italian add-applications.xml file we have ENTITY language "en"
[14:24] <mdke> I don't *think* that should matter, because the html build shouldn't use it, but try changing it and see if it helps
[14:26] <mdke> no, it's the same in ubuntu-docs, that's not the problem
[14:27] <adiroiban> maybe because I don't have  the italian language support installed
[14:27] <mdke> no, that's not it either
[14:28] <mdke> the difference between the two links on the first page, where one works, and one doesn't, is that the first is a <link> and the second is an <xref>
[14:29] <mdke> hmm. Don't know the answer to that
[14:29] <mdke> once the translations have been imported and the branch updated, I'll take a look
[14:30] <adiroiban> j1mc: can you rerunt the get-pot.sh script
[14:30] <adiroiban> removing the "omf"
[14:30] <j1mc> ok
[14:30] <adiroiban> push it to bzr branch, and link the translation to it?
[14:32] <adiroiban> mdke , j1mc if a huge part of "add-applications" is identical in ubuntu-docs and xubuntu-docs , why do we have separate xml files?
[14:33] <j1mc> i reran the get-pot.sh, but because the strings were the same, bzr doesn't recognize any changes.  pot files already existed for harware.xml and games.xml
[14:33] <adiroiban> ok
[14:33] <j1mc> bzr status
[14:33] <adiroiban> then just enable the translations
[14:33] <mdke> adiroiban: because they are separate packages
[14:33] <j1mc> oops... one moment
[14:34] <mdke> but we'll be talking about how xubuntu and ubuntu can share docs better in the next release cycle
[14:34] <j1mc> if i push anything, it will only be updating the shipped-docs file, and the get-pot.sh file
[14:34] <adiroiban> maybe the pot files were already there
[14:35] <mdke> not in my branch
[14:35] <adiroiban> :)
[14:35] <mdke> if you've moved the scripts folder and edited libs/shipped-docs, it's definitely worth pushing those changes
[14:41] <j1mc> mdke: well, i moved the scripts folder, and then moved it back. some of the scripts don't work with the current setup
[14:45] <j1mc> i've pushed those changes up though
[19:09] <nhandler> Is it possible to have an <informaltable> with only a <thead> and no <tbody>?