=== Keybuk is now known as Guest97642
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vikashkoushikHi Guys05:41
vikashkoushikI am trying to become a member of Ubuntu05:41
vikashkoushikI thought I'll get some help from the Indian LoCo team but05:42
vikashkoushikthey think that I am trying to become a member so that i'll get the email id with which they think that i'll show of in front of my friends.05:43
vikashkoushikI am not getting good response from them05:43
vikashkoushikneed help guys05:43
vikashkoushikpls reply05:47
vikashkoushikany body there????/05:53
=== Zic is now known as Guest87256
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vikashkoushikanybody there?06:34
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=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
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* charlie-tca waves18:30
knomelet's wait for other to arrive18:31
knomecody-somerville, will you be the chair?18:31
j1mc_hi all18:33
j1mc_i'll brb18:33
charlie-tcaHello, j1mc_18:33
knomehi jim18:33
charlie-tcaknome: did you ping cody-somerville18:34
knomeyes, on jabber also18:34
knomei can be the chair if he doesn't show up18:35
j1mc_hi all18:37
knomehi jim18:37
knomei suppose we should just start18:37
knomeis that ok by everyone?18:37
=== j1mc_ is now known as j1mc
charlie-tcaLet's do it.18:38
j1mcknome: sure18:38
MootBotMeeting started at 12:38. The chair is knome.18:38
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:38
knome[TOPIC] Review last meetings action items18:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Review last meetings action items18:38
j1mcit's been a while since i looked at the meeing notes from the last meeting18:38
knome[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings18:39
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings18:39
knomeThere's a lot of action items for Cody.18:39
knomeWe haven't worked much on the wiki and the website with Jim.18:40
charlie-tcateam calendar is on google now18:40
knomecharlie-tca, did you set up a 5-a-day xubuntu team?18:40
knomecharlie-tca, link?18:40
charlie-tcalet me find it.18:40
knomeJPohlmann, have you "filed bugs against packages in xfce to indicate out-of-date documentation"?18:41
charlie-tcaI don't think we can set up a 5-a-day team after reading all the information. I think we have to do it as individuals and loco's instead18:41
knomecharlie-tca, right.18:41
knomedo we agree on this? :)18:42
JPohlmannknome: Uh, no.18:42
charlie-tcaHere is the google calendare link:18:42
knomeJPohlmann, no problem. :)18:42
charlie-tcaI think?18:42
j1mcthey have modified how 5-a-day is done.  they did it just before the global bug jam.  it is more integrated into launchpad now.18:43
j1mchi TheSheep18:43
charlie-tcaYes, j1mc. But individuals are still not being updated18:43
knome[LINK] http://tinyurl.com/xubuntuteamcal18:43
MootBotLINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/xubuntuteamcal18:43
* nhandler arrives18:43
j1mccharlie-tca: correct.  i think it has a bit less functionality now.18:43
j1mcit's still a work-in-progress18:43
TheSheep"The one time calendar access transfer key is invalid"18:44
* charlie-tca thinks "a bit?"!18:44
knomeshould we try to create the xubuntu group or try to get people working with their loco's?18:44
j1mci don't even really know the status of it now.18:44
knomeTheSheep, d'oh18:44
TheSheepyou need to copy the other link18:44
knomeTheSheep, works for me.18:44
TheSheepnot the 'one time' one18:44
charlie-tcaknome: delay it for now, until they get 5-a-day working again18:44
TheSheepknome: apparently you were first :)18:44
charlie-tcathe tiny url link works18:45
knome[AGREED] Delay setting up Xubuntu 5-a-day team until 5-a-day is working correctly again.18:45
MootBotAGREED received:  Delay setting up Xubuntu 5-a-day team until 5-a-day is working correctly again.18:45
charlie-tcaor did I send my own calendar out?18:45
knome[TOPIC] Team updates18:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Team updates18:47
j1mcstart there?18:47
knomea new topic? :)18:47
j1mcno, start with the packaging team update.  or whoever wants to start first. :)18:48
charlie-tcawho is packaging? mr_pouit ?18:48
knomecody, ncommander maybe, mr_pouit18:48
knomeThere's a lot of reporting from last month, but none yet from April.18:48
knomeah, there is some.18:49
knomeit's mainly cody done some things.18:49
knome[ACTION] Team leaders will update Team Report before 22th April.18:49
MootBotACTION received:  Team leaders will update Team Report before 22th April.18:49
knome[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports18:49
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports18:49
knomeany discussion about team updates?18:50
nhandlerI would just like to say that for karmic, I hope to be able to help out with packaging for xubuntu18:50
charlie-tcaThe next two mondays are ISO testing days18:50
knome[ACTION] Next two mondays are ISO testing days.18:51
MootBotACTION received:  Next two mondays are ISO testing days.18:51
charlie-tcaSince we release the RC on April 16 and Final on April 23, we need them tested18:51
JPohlmannI remember Cody was hoping to get Xfce 4.6.1 into jaunty.18:51
charlie-tcaOn Mondays, we smoke test as much as possible,18:51
knomeJPohlmann, me too.18:51
JPohlmannWe're currently in the process of releasing it but it might take a few days.18:51
JPohlmannIs anyone able to tell how long packaging it would take?18:52
knomedidn't ncommander package it the last time?18:53
JPohlmannTogether with mr_pouit, yeah.18:53
charlie-tcayes, he did18:53
JPohlmannThough that was an update from 4.4.x to 4.6.0. 4.6.0 to 4.6.1 is a different thing but I suppose it'll take less time ;)18:54
j1mcJPohlmann: Jérôme Guelfucci is making good use of identi.ca in providing updates about xfce progress.  I picked up his release of Gigolo 0.3 from there.18:55
knomeright.. anything else about the team reports?18:56
j1mcany other packaging updates?18:56
j1mcfor documentation, i'm importing the translations.18:57
JPohlmannj1mc: I read your mail about ident.ca. The way I see it it's just a matter of which channel to use in order to push information about updates out to the world. It doesn't really matter whether it's identi.ca, a mailing list or a weblog.18:57
knomej1mc, from where?18:57
j1mcJPohlmann: to some extent, yes, but there are some people who may only find out about somehting like that through just one of those channels.18:57
charlie-tcaI am compiling a list of Jaunty critical bugs for Xubuntu that will be posted to the wiki18:58
j1mcknome: rosetta / launchpad.  matthew east and Adi Roiban are helping me.18:58
JPohlmannj1mc: True. Therefor we have official channels like the xfce-announce and xfce mailinglist.18:59
JPohlmannBut it's nice if someone takes care of another well-known one. We can't support everything obviously ;)18:59
j1mcJPohlmann: right.  i certainly don't see identi.ca updates as a "must have," just a "nice to have"18:59
knomej1mc, charlie-tca: i updated the team report for you.18:59
knomeany other updates or discussions?19:00
j1mcknome: yes19:00
knomego on :)19:00
j1mcare we just doing team reports stuff about current status, or are we also discussing other plans?19:01
SiDijlmc whats the latest deadline for doc translations ?19:01
j1mcSiDi: they should be in now, but because we are in universe, mdke says we're ok.19:01
j1mci'll get them in this weekend.19:02
knomej1mc, there is an agenda item for things relevant to finalizing 9.0419:02
SiDij1mc, ok, thanks, cause we're a  bit late with french doc19:02
j1mcknome: ok, let's move on then.19:02
j1mcSiDi: hurry. :)19:02
knomej1mc, and an item for specs and blueprints for jaunty.19:02
j1mcknome: coolness.19:02
j1mci'm ok to move on if others are19:02
knome[TOPIC] Xubuntu plans for Ubuntu Open Week19:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Xubuntu plans for Ubuntu Open Week19:02
knomethere was some discussion about the xubuntu session19:03
knomeon the mailing list mostly19:03
charlie-tcaI have signed up for April 27 at 2100 UTC19:03
knome[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep19:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep19:03
charlie-tcaAre we doing more than one session?19:03
knomewe might do two consecutive.19:04
knomecharlie-tca, how much stuff do you have about Xubuntu QA in minutes?19:04
charlie-tcaI don't know. Last time I thought I had 30 minutes, but it was only 1019:05
charlie-tcaI did q & a for 20 minutes19:05
charlie-tcaThis time I have time to prepare, and can do an hour, if needed19:06
knomeok, so maybe we should go for two sessions19:06
knomei think the mail you sent was great.19:06
charlie-tcaI want us out there. This is for the non-developers to find out how good we are!19:06
j1mccharlie-tca: i liked your email to the list, too.19:07
charlie-tcaThanks, but what are we going to do for more involvement through open week?19:07
knome[AGREED] We need to show off how good Xubuntu is to non-developers at Open Week19:07
MootBotAGREED received:  We need to show off how good Xubuntu is to non-developers at Open Week19:07
knomemaybe we could do some slides to show19:08
knomeand prepare as a group19:08
charlie-tcaKeeping in mind, this is on IRC19:08
knomei don't remember if it was openweek or developer week, but i saw a session with some slides19:08
knomeand they were really great.19:09
knomethey really supported the session19:09
charlie-tcaIf it works, let's do it19:09
knomewell, we have to think about it19:09
knomeshall we have a meeting about openweek later on?19:09
charlie-tcaWe have exactly two weeks19:09
knomenext friday?19:10
charlie-tcaIf we are going to do that, should we grab the slot on thur right after training19:10
charlie-tcaShould be lots of people around then19:10
knomeright, let's do that19:10
knomewill you sign up for that?19:10
charlie-tcaWill do!19:10
knome[ACTION] Charlie signs up for another session at Ubuntu Open Week19:11
MootBotACTION received:  Charlie signs up for another session at Ubuntu Open Week19:11
knomeso, should we have a team/community planning meeting about these session??19:11
j1mci think that would be helpful19:12
j1mcperhaps outline something via a google doc or gobby?19:12
knomeany suggestions for date?19:12
knomegobby sounds good19:12
SiDiWhat about advertising the week on the irc channel ?19:12
knome[ACTION] Keep a meeting about the Open Week sessions and outline things on Gobby19:13
MootBotACTION received:  Keep a meeting about the Open Week sessions and outline things on Gobby19:13
knomeSiDi, sure.19:13
knome[ACTION] Everybody advertises Open Week on #xubuntu from now to eternity.19:14
MootBotACTION received:  Everybody advertises Open Week on #xubuntu from now to eternity.19:14
SiDieven once its finished ? :)19:14
knomeSiDi, there is always next one19:14
nhandlerBlog posts on the planet might also help19:14
knomenhandler, about the xubuntu sessions?19:15
knomenhandler, or about open week?19:15
j1mcthe xubuntu sessions, of course19:15
nhandlerknome: Both. Blog about Open Week and mention the Xubuntu sessions19:15
j1mcperhaps outlining what we'll cover19:15
nhandlerYou can also blog about it afterwards for people who missed the session19:16
knomei will add that as idea, as i don't know who will do it19:16
charlie-tcaSomebody gonna teach me how to make gobby work?19:16
j1mccody-somerville and i are ok with the bloggings19:16
nhandlercharlie-tca: They might have some docs from the last UDS19:16
knome[IDEA] Blog about (Xubuntu) Open Week (Sessions) before and after (preferably at Ubuntu Planet)19:16
MootBotIDEA received:  Blog about (Xubuntu) Open Week (Sessions) before and after (preferably at Ubuntu Planet)19:16
charlie-tcaI couldn't make it work then, either19:16
knomecharlie-tca, i can teach.19:16
j1mccharlie-tca: it took me a bit, too.  there are some really great gobby session notes available from the last UDS.19:17
knomej1mc, i don't have ubuntu membership yet, so i can't write to planet.19:17
j1mccharlie-tca: "from" the last uds.  not really how to use gobby, but gobby being used to keep notes19:17
knomeanything else about open week?19:17
j1mcknome: that will have to be remedied. :)19:17
knomewe have items to cover19:17
charlie-tcaI know that. I couldn't follow nothing though, because I could not get gobby to work19:18
j1mcok, let's move on19:18
j1mccharlie-tca: yeah :/19:18
charlie-tcaGobby notes suck if you can't work gobby19:18
knome[TOPIC] Discuss any issues relevant to finalizing the 9.04 release19:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Discuss any issues relevant to finalizing the 9.04 release19:18
nhandlercharlie-tca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSKarmic/RemoteParticipation has a section on Gobby19:18
* knome gets something to drink.19:18
knomeJPohlmann, so will you investigate getting xfce 4.6.1 in jaunty with the packaging team?19:20
JPohlmannThere's not much to do about it other than to get 4.6.1 out as soon as possible. I'll bug our release manager again.19:21
knome[ACTION] Jannis bugs Xfce release manager in getting 4.6.1 out as soon as possible.19:21
MootBotACTION received:  Jannis bugs Xfce release manager in getting 4.6.1 out as soon as possible.19:21
j1mci don't know what kind of time crunch we are under to get these items in.19:21
j1mci guess cody would know19:22
nhandlerj1mc: The sooner the better19:22
j1mcnhandler: right19:22
knome[ACTION] Jannis talks with Cody about including
MootBotACTION received:  Jannis talks with Cody about including
knomeJPohlmann, no objections! :P19:22
knomeany other issues?19:22
nhandlerj1mc: The archive is frozen and we are 2 weeks from Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-April/000561.html19:22
knome[ACTION] Charlie is compiling a list of critical bugs in Jaunty.19:22
MootBotACTION received:  Charlie is compiling a list of critical bugs in Jaunty.19:23
knomenhandler, cody can get final freeze exceptions19:23
knomenhandler, and he's *really good* in that.19:23
* j1mc nods19:23
knome[ACTION] Jim is importing documentation from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.19:23
MootBotACTION received:  Jim is importing documentation from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.19:23
nhandlerI personally would be hesitant to push a new version of xfce during final freeze. Read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze19:24
knomeanything else we have to discuss about 9.04?19:24
j1mcas a note, it's the documentation translations :)19:24
knome[ACTION] Jim is importing documentation translations from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.19:25
MootBotACTION received:  Jim is importing documentation translations from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.19:25
j1mcnothing else to talk about concerning 9.04 from me.19:25
knomeanybody else?19:25
knomethe artwork is in a quite good shape19:26
knomethe gdm background is now converted from svg to png buildtime.19:26
knomeok right, let's go on19:26
knome[TOPIC] Specifications and blueprints for (UDS) Karmic19:27
MootBotNew Topic:  Specifications and blueprints for (UDS) Karmic19:27
knomei've registered two specs19:27
knome[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-visual-concept19:27
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-visual-concept19:27
knome[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-artwork-build-scripts19:27
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-artwork-build-scripts19:27
knomewe need more specs19:27
j1mcknome: do you think that the wiki mention of wiki pages should go under it's own spec?19:29
j1mc"We also should discuss about how to make the Xubuntu wiki pages etc. look consistent with each other and not look totally outdated compared to the new artwork."19:29
j1mcit seems like that is a separate item19:29
j1mc[Agreed] We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team19:30
knomeit kind of is, but there's no reason to have another spec for it.19:30
knome[AGREED] We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team.19:30
j1mchrm. mootbot is not listening to me19:30
MootBotAGREED received:  We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team.19:30
knomeof course not, because i'm the chair :P19:30
charlie-tcaA lot of those specs will come from UDS, too, though19:30
j1mcwe should look at what specs got implemented for 9.04, revisit those specs19:31
j1mcat least *also* do that19:31
j1mcand look forward19:31
knome[AGREED] Look at old specifications and whether they are implemented and revisit or mark superseded.19:32
MootBotAGREED received:  Look at old specifications and whether they are implemented and revisit or mark superseded.19:32
j1mcJPohlmann: I will bug the one guy who wrote about putting the xfce documentation on the wiki.19:32
j1mcI think that's a good idea.  Xfce needs updated docs19:32
knome[AGREED] Xfce needs updated documentation.19:32
MootBotAGREED received:  Xfce needs updated documentation.19:32
JPohlmannj1mc: You mean Nick?19:32
j1mcJPohlmann: Mike Massonnet brought it up last19:33
JPohlmannThe main problem might be to find a suitable wiki system that supports generating nice offline documentation.19:33
knomesorry guys, but let's leave open discussion for the end and get forward in the agenda, shall we? :)19:34
j1mcknome: sure19:34
nhandlerJPohlmann: Why not go the other way. Aren't there docbook->moin tools?19:34
JPohlmannj1mc: Okay ... I guess it's best if we discuss that on the xfce4-dev mailinglist.19:34
knome[TOPIC] Brainstorm ideas19:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Brainstorm ideas19:34
knome# Uncheck "Save session for future logins" in Quit dialog by default19:35
knome[LINK] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/16756/19:35
MootBotLINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/16756/19:35
JPohlmannnhandler: Because docbook is kind of a high barrier. And offline docs are painful to maintain.19:35
knomefolks! concentratE!19:35
knomeis there any updates on saving session thing?19:36
j1mcknome: i don't have any updates19:36
j1mclet's table that one.19:37
knome[LINK] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10852/19:37
MootBotLINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10852/19:37
knome"Update Xubuntu artwork on the live cd boot screen"19:37
knomefor Karmic.19:37
knomei update the karmic artwork spec to include live cd artowrk19:38
j1mccool :)19:38
knomecharlie-tca, you here? :]19:38
charlie-tcaShouldn't that be the same artwork as GDM?19:38
knome[TOPIC] Increased tests for Live CD session19:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Increased tests for Live CD session19:38
charlie-tcaI got lost19:38
knomecharlie-tca, sure. but also the live cd boot menu19:38
j1mci think the issue was that xubuntu had the same colored backgroupd as ubuntu during the install.19:39
knomecharlie-tca, the usplash-like menu19:39
j1mcthe usplash menu, too.19:39
charlie-tcaI have expanded the testing page. I will be splitting the short test into desktop/live cd and installed testing19:39
j1mcnot sure how this will work with xubuntu being in universe.19:39
knomewhatever the issues are, we will fix them in karmic19:39
knomecharlie-tca, can you provide links again?19:39
charlie-tcaThis is what we have: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short19:40
charlie-tcaI need to split it so it is not so long19:40
knome[ACTION] (Brainstorm ideas) Live CD boot screen/artwork graphics will be fixed in Karmic.19:40
MootBotACTION received:  (Brainstorm ideas) Live CD boot screen/artwork graphics will be fixed in Karmic.19:40
knome[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short19:40
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short19:40
knome[ACTION] Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorted and readable.19:41
MootBotACTION received:  Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorted and readable.19:41
knome*shorter :P19:41
knomedo we need to review the items?19:42
j1mcThe Ubuntu documentation team is pretty active lately.  I'm not sure of all of the changes that we'll be making, but we should have better documentation for 9.20.19:42
knome9.10 :)19:42
j1mcheh, yes.  9.1019:42
knome[AGREED] We should have much better documentation for Karmic.19:42
MootBotAGREED received:  We should have much better documentation for Karmic.19:42
j1mcIf you could set an action item to update the css for the Xubuntu documentation, I will be adding that as a spec19:43
knome[ACTION] Pasi to bug about people about joining the Xubuntu Team and write documentation.19:43
MootBotACTION received:  Pasi to bug about people about joining the Xubuntu Team and write documentation.19:43
knome[ACTION] Pasi to update the CSS for the Xubuntu documentation with Jim.19:43
MootBotACTION received:  Pasi to update the CSS for the Xubuntu documentation with Jim.19:43
knome[ACTION] Jim adds a specification about branding and reworking the Xubuntu documentation artwork and looks.19:44
MootBotACTION received:  Jim adds a specification about branding and reworking the Xubuntu documentation artwork and looks.19:44
j1mcThis release we tried to use yelp, and it didn't work out, so I spent time toward the end of the cycle converting things to the older format rather than writing a lot of new stuff.19:44
* SiDi is fine with CSS, if help is needed there.19:44
j1mcSiDi: cool - are you on the xubuntu-devel mailing list?19:45
knomethere is nothing like [INFO] :(19:45
SiDithere should be a [LOVE] one.19:45
knome[ACTION] SiDi helps knome and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.19:46
MootBotACTION received:  SiDi helps knome and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.19:46
knomeright.. that wasn't particularly logical.19:46
knome[ACTION] Steve (SiDi) helps Pasi and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.19:46
MootBotACTION received:  Steve (SiDi) helps Pasi and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.19:46
knomecharlie-tca, anything else about the tests for live cd session?19:47
charlie-tcaNot right now. If anyone thinks something else should be included in testing, let me know.19:47
j1mccharlie-tca: will do.19:48
knomei think we should leave the karmic artwork brainstorm for later.19:48
j1mcknome: sounds good19:48
knomeat least to some time cody is available19:49
charlie-tcaOh, by the way, I want to try shipping Xubuntu 9.04 cd's in north america.19:49
charlie-tcaThis is on my own, out of my own pocket.19:49
knomethat would be great.19:49
knomei think we need to discuss that more widely.19:49
charlie-tcaStart with North America until I can deal with customs19:49
knomei am willing to ship xubuntu cd's as well.19:49
knomecharlie-tca, let's put that into the next community meeting agenda19:50
charlie-tcaGreat, knome19:50
knomewe definitely need cody's opinion19:50
charlie-tcaWell, we start shipping in a couple of weeks.19:50
knome"we" ?19:50
knomevia what19:51
SiDiI think charlie-tca means we should have an agreement on this before 2319:51
SiDiso we can be ready to ship xubuntu at the same time than ubuntu and kubuntu19:51
charlie-tcaThank you, SiDi19:51
charlie-tcaAnd if anyone requests it, we should be able to send out the cd19:52
knomeoh right.19:52
charlie-tcaNo bulk shipments, one per address19:52
knomethen let's discuss about it at the meeting with open week stuff19:52
knome[ACTION] Discuss shipping Xubuntu CD's in the Open Week planning session.19:52
MootBotACTION received:  Discuss shipping Xubuntu CD's in the Open Week planning session.19:52
knomeare we done or is there any other items?19:53
knome[TOPIC] Open discussion19:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Open discussion19:53
charlie-tcaLike to thank everybody that showed up today.19:53
j1mcme too19:53
knomeme too.19:53
knomei will set the minutes up.19:53
j1mcI've joined the gnome-doc mailing list, and as they look to make changes for gnome 3.0, i will try to make any new directions relatively platform independent19:54
j1mcat least, offer those suggestions up.19:54
knome[ACTION] Jim joined the gnome-dev mailing list and tries to make any new directions (relatively) platform independent19:54
MootBotACTION received:  Jim joined the gnome-dev mailing list and tries to make any new directions (relatively) platform independent19:54
charlie-tcaOh, good.19:54
j1mcof course, i am just one dude, but if they are going to do something like replace yelp, why not replace it with something that can be used by something other than just gnome.19:55
charlie-tcaOne person at a time, right19:55
knomewhen was the last meeting?19:55
knomeright, 15.2.19:55
charlie-tcatwo months ago?19:55
j1mci feel like we had one in march19:55
knomethere's no minutes up from it19:56
j1mci just don't think the meeting page got updated.19:56
knomei think i wasn't there19:56
JPohlmannj1mc: Sounds good19:56
charlie-tcaWe skipped march19:56
j1mcah, ok19:57
j1mcok, well... anything else?19:57
knomeif there is anything else, please let us now in a few minutes :)19:58
charlie-tcaIḿ done19:59
j1mci vote to adjourn the meeting :)19:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:59.19:59
j1mcthanks, all19:59
knomehmm... kinky timezone19:59
j1mchave a good rest of your weekend!19:59
knomeyou too19:59
charlie-tcaThanks, everybody.19:59
cprofittPricey you here?21:11
cprofittthanks ausimage21:30
MootBotMeeting started at 15:31. The chair is cprofitt.21:31
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:31
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:31.21:31
cprofittalright... it works21:31
SiDihow did your meeting go ?21:32
SiDinot too much arguing ? :d21:32
cprofittmeeting starts in 28 minutes actually21:32
cprofittwas just testing the controls out21:33
SiDiWhat meeting is that ?21:33
SiDi(i was here for the xubuntu one and i didnt leave channel, just curious about whats gonna go on ;p)21:33
SiDiNice, i didn't know that group21:34
cprofittjoin us then...21:35
cprofittwe appreciate all the feedback, advice and interested people that show up21:35
SiDiI've got a lot of work at the moment :)21:36
cprofittno problem...21:36
cprofittwe will post logs...21:36
SiDiPersonal and university projects. I can't join teams without having time available to contribute to what they do.21:36
* cprofitt nods21:36
cprofittI can understand that...21:36
cprofittfull time job and three kids are what eat my time21:37
SiDii'll look after your team if i meet you at the UDS ;)21:37
SiDiouch :P i can't even imagine having children right now :)21:37
Vantrax<- has a kid on the way21:41
cprofittgrats Vantrax21:43
cprofittI have a three (1, 3, 8)21:43
SiDiI recommand you wait to see how they are at 13/14 before you make another one :>21:44
cprofittI will  make no more...21:44
cprofittI am too old for that now21:44
* cprofitt FIVE minutes until the EDU meeting starts21:55
MootBotMeeting started at 16:00. The chair is cprofitt.22:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]22:00
cprofitt[TOPIC] Education Initiative22:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Education Initiative22:00
cprofittWelcome everyone22:01
cprofittThis is the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education Focus Group22:01
* pleia2 waves22:01
cprofittTonight we will be discussing our project of adopting Moodle and integrating it in with existing resources for Ubuntu Education22:02
VantraxThanks for coming pleia222:02
cprofittWe are using MootBot and the instructions can be found here22:02
cprofittI would like to thank everyone who has shown up for our meeting.22:03
cprofittNow I would like to introduce the man leading the charge - Vantrax22:03
cprofitttake it away Vantrax22:03
Vantraxthat might be an overstatement:P22:03
VantraxAll right, for anyone that hasnt already seen it, the agenda can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings22:04
cprofitt[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings22:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings22:04
cprofittfor the agenda22:04
VantraxIm going to assume that no one here has an idea of what were doing and give a quick recap22:05
cprofitt[TOPIC] Name of Project22:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Name of Project22:05
cprofitt[TOPIC] Overview22:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Overview22:05
VantraxOur intention is to create an interactive learning environment to support new users becoming more engaged in the Ubuntu community. Our goal is to take new motivated users and turn them into contributing members of the community.22:05
VantraxWe plan to do this by using moodle to coordinate all the various methods currently being used to teach with all the different teams currently engaged in various sorts of training22:06
VantraxThe intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program. This training will cover some similar process but will not have any accreditation or certification associated with it, and may act as a feeder into the official components. The information contained is intended to suplement the work already being done by several groups in IRC training to make their programs easier to find, and easier to take.22:06
Vantrax[TOPIC] Name of Project22:07
cprofitt[TOPIC] Name of Project22:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Name of Project22:07
VantraxFirst bit off the line, we have to name what the project is going to be. The suggestions from community and canonical staff have been to include community and training or education. We are also currently petitioning to use the Ubuntu name and expect that it is likely to be granted22:08
VantraxAside from Ubuntu Community Training, and Ubuntu Community Education are there any other suggestions that people would like considered22:09
cprofitt[IDEA]Ubuntu Community Training22:09
MootBotIDEA received: Ubuntu Community Training22:09
Vantraxgo JoshuaRL22:09
cprofitt[IDEA]Ubuntu Community Education22:09
MootBotIDEA received: Ubuntu Community Education22:09
JoshuaRLUbuntu Community Learning22:09
cprofitt[IDEA]Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)22:10
MootBotIDEA received: Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)22:10
VantraxOther suggestions?22:10
pleia2I worry about "Community Training" because it's so similar to the official stuff, and in every instance the official canonical training folks will have the "training" name already22:11
JoshuaRLpleia2: +122:12
VantraxJono actually preferred that one because it was similar, but clearly community based and not official.22:12
cprofittI prefer education myself... but learning is good.22:12
tim_sharittIMO, something with education or learning is more inviting to casual users and new users22:12
cprofittI emailed Jono about the difference between Education and Training, but have not received a response yet22:12
tim_sharitttraining sounds too formal22:13
pleia2Vantrax: well, thus far the canonical training folks have launchpad and mailing lists called "ubuntu training" or somesuch22:13
cprofittyes, training sounds like something will be done to you...22:13
cprofittand we plan on some self-paced learning22:13
VantraxPersonally I am partital to Education22:13
pleia2I like Education22:13
cprofittdoes anyone want the differences as I laid them out?22:14
tim_sharitt+1 for education22:14
pleia2cprofitt: sure :)22:14
JoshuaRLcprofitt: go ahead22:14
cprofittthe education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained22:15
cprofittthe act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life22:15
cprofittthe first is training22:15
cprofittthe second is education22:15
JoshuaRLcprofitt: got learning available?22:16
cprofittnot handy22:16
cprofittbut can look it up22:16
cprofitt the act or process of acquiring knowledge or skill.22:16
JoshuaRLknowledge acquired by systematic study in any field of scholarly application.22:17
JoshuaRLoops, missed yours  :)22:17
cprofittI like Education because it can be self-paced or instructor lead22:17
VantraxIm still partial to Education looking at the definitions, everyone happy with that, or would you like to vote?22:17
forestpixiewe need to vote I think22:18
cprofitt[VOTE] Name - Ubuntu Community Education22:18
MootBotPlease vote on:  Name - Ubuntu Community Education.22:18
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:18
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:18
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:18
MootBot+1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:18
MootBot+1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 322:18
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 422:18
MootBot+1 received from JoshuaRL. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 522:18
MootBot+1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 622:18
VantraxAny other votes?22:19
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 622:19
cprofitt[VOTE]Ubuntu Community Learning22:19
MootBotPlease vote on: Ubuntu Community Learning.22:19
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:19
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:19
MootBotAbstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 022:19
MootBot-1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -122:19
MootBotAbstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -122:19
MootBotAbstention received from forestpixie. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -122:19
MootBotAbstention received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -122:20
MootBotFinal result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -122:20
cprofitt[VOTE]Ubuntu Community Training22:20
MootBotPlease vote on: Ubuntu Community Training.22:20
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:20
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:20
MootBot-1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -122:20
MootBot-1 received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -222:20
MootBot-1 received from forestpixie. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -322:20
MootBotAbstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -322:20
MootBot-1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -422:20
MootBotFinal result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -422:21
* nhandler arrives22:21
cprofitt[AGREED]Ubuntu Community Education22:21
MootBotAGREED received: Ubuntu Community Education22:21
cprofittWe will need to review that with Canonical22:21
cprofitt[TOPIC]Use of the Ubuntu name22:22
MootBotNew Topic: Use of the Ubuntu name22:22
VantraxAs before, any use of the Ubuntu name has to be approved by the branding/copyright group. A formal request has been made and is expected to be approved based on support from the Official Ubuntu training team leaders, community manager, and sadbfl22:23
VantraxJust a little status update on that side of things22:23
cprofitt[TOPIC]Training/Education focus22:24
MootBotNew Topic: Training/Education focus22:24
Vantraxcprofitt: mind if we do Integrating with the community first?22:24
cprofitt[TOPIC]Integrating with the community22:24
MootBotNew Topic: Integrating with the community22:24
VantraxThis has been an area of consern in planning this project, many groups in the community are already doing training.22:25
VantraxThe plan is that a new launchpad team and mailing list will be created including the representatives for the training program (currently dubbed Ubuntu Community Education) to make it a new entity that is a collaberation of teams, not the property of existing teams (ie Its not a Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team or a Classroom project).22:26
VantraxDoes anyone have any comments or suggestions in regard to this side of things22:26
nhandlerI would like to see a few different teams created22:26
pleia2what kinds of things would be discussed there that wouldn't be on existing lists?22:26
=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang
nhandlerFor instance, a team for people interested in forum education, motu education, wiki education, etc. You would then have a parent team which has these smaller teams as members22:27
pleia2I'd rather not see a bunch of half-dead lists be created for specific things when discussions on all of them could be useful for everyone involved22:27
Vantraxpleia2: the idea is more that there are not several lists22:27
cprofittI just want to state that the focus is to augment existing training... not replace it. We want to increase the use of IRC #classroom and have more people become involved with MOTU, Documentation, etc...22:27
Vantraxnhandler: most of these teams have lists already that serve this function isnt it?22:27
JoshuaRLnhandler: that could easily be handled within each respective team, if they decide they need it22:28
nhandlerVantrax: There aren't specific teams/lists for the education element of these teams22:28
VantraxThe idea is to provide a better method for training to tie the community training together22:28
pleia2yeah, currently motu, bugs, etc discuss thing within their own teams, since everyone in their team can contribute22:28
cprofittVantrax, I would think that the other teams would be fine on their own internal lists still... but the new group would allow for a common list to be shared for the areas that cross22:28
nhandlerFor instance, we have a MOTU School, but no MOTU School list/team22:28
Vantraxnhandler: i see what you meen now22:28
cprofittI would think those teams have internal issues that do not need to be discussed in the context of education22:28
cprofittso the new group would provide a shared 'education' list22:29
Vantraxnhandler: I would tend to assume it would be up to each contributing area to decide if they need a group/mailing list for this22:29
cprofittand only focus on the education piece for all included teams22:29
pleia2I don't think we want to insist upon groups having a "motu school team/list" the reason they discuss this on their main lists is because they want to, and it attracts attention from everyone in their teams instead of segregating it22:29
JoshuaRLVantrax: +1.  this should just be a parent group22:29
Vantraxsuch as the Beginners Team has done with its Education Focus Group22:29
cprofittpleia2, I agree...22:29
cprofittI think vantrax's idea was to create one combined EDU list22:30
nhandlerpleia2: I am not saying we need separate lists, I just think creating sub-teams of this new education team would be a good idea22:30
JoshuaRLpleia2: +122:30
VantraxThe idea of the list is that everyone has a central point for edu related info22:30
cprofittso that teams could discuss education together in a combined place22:30
pleia2nhandler: I fail to use the usefulness22:30
Vantraxor to seek help on setting up a course on the moodle installation22:30
nhandlerpleia2: Organization. You could see who is interested in certain types of lessons. You could then have different people in charge of coordinating those lessons22:30
pleia2nhandler: I think it adds complexity and requirements upon teams doing lessons22:31
pleia2I think we want to make it easy for them :)22:31
cprofittpleia2, would you have education issues cross posted on the regular team lists?22:31
pleia2cprofitt: yeah, then more people see it and perhaps someone who didn't know about it could toss in their info, wider audiences are generally good22:32
pleia2putting education stuff in its own corner tends to cause things to die off22:32
cprofittwould it be good to have one 'uber' list plus cross posting? or just all cross posting?22:32
cprofittI see two sides... keeping people involved and the 'logs' of the list... one 'education' list would make it easy to find education posts...22:33
pleia2uber list plus cross posting22:33
cprofittcool... I think I like that idea...22:33
nhandlerHaving an uber list would also make it easy for people to contact the people in charge of the lessons22:33
JoshuaRLpleia2: +122:33
pleia2like currently with classroom a couple of us are on main ubuntu lists, read planet and news, and when we see a lesson we post about it to -classroom, we encourage teams doing classes to publicise them with classroom, but they're cross posted elsewhere too22:33
pleia2nhandler: agreed22:34
cprofittso do we need a new team or just a mailing list to accomplish that?22:34
VantraxIm just thinking how easy is this going to be for a new user looking for information22:34
forestpixieprobably easier than looking all over the place22:35
nhandlercprofitt: If you are making the list through Launchpad, you need a team22:35
pleia2Vantrax: me too, I fear that having too many subteams would be confusing (and if one is dead and the rest are busy? they get a false impression of the project if they join that dead one...)22:35
cprofittVantrax, I think the mix of Uber list and cross posting should solve the issue of finding things... but also pollinate the existing groups22:35
VantraxI think we should have an LP team related to the organisational side of this, for people contributing materials or helping coordinate22:35
forestpixiealthough we could use the one we already have couldn't we22:36
VantraxI think we should also have a mailing list for information on training, and sublist for each area that are crossposted22:36
Vantraxforestpixie: the idea is for another group not related to an existing group22:36
pleia2it's the sublist I have trouble with22:36
nhandlerVantrax: That is what my idea about the subteams was partially about22:36
nhandlerHowever, I don't think the sublists are needed22:37
Vantraxok, subteams but not sublists?22:37
pleia2I don't think subteamsare needed either22:37
nhandlerThat would keep things organized22:37
nhandlerpleia2: Why? If I am only interested in doing a certain type of session, you don't think that matters22:37
Vantraxpleia2: I agree, but I can see the use on the organisational side22:37
Vantraxgo Rocket2DMn22:37
JoshuaRLo/ 222:37
pleia2nhandler: subteams are essentially already handled by the projects themselves, asking them to join these seems excessive22:37
Rocket2DMnI've been following some of this discussion, it's become apparent that sublists definitely dont work, we saw this on the BT22:38
Rocket2DMnre: Subteams, who would actually be ON the subteams?22:38
cprofitt+1 Rocket2DMn22:38
VantraxRocket2DMn: I think were past sublists22:38
tim_sharittI don't think we need subteams/sublists right now unless we see that are actually needed in the future22:38
pleia2tim_sharitt: +122:38
cprofittLets vote on this...22:38
forestpixie+1 tim_sharitt22:38
Rocket2DMna "subteam" is more of a reference to a completely other ubuntu team22:38
JoshuaRLi think that we should use one list, and one team.  if the traffic and the work gets exessive, then we can make them22:38
VantraxId leave it as an option if we expand too rapidly, but for the moment the scale is a little small22:38
cprofitt[VOTE]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists22:38
MootBotPlease vote on: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists.22:38
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:38
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:38
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:39
MootBot+1 received from forestpixie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:39
MootBot+1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 322:39
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 422:39
MootBot+1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 522:39
MootBot+1 received from JoshuaRL. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 622:39
cprofittany more votes - Rocket2DMn22:40
Rocket2DMni wont vote on your stuff guys, just thought i'd provide some input.  thank you22:40
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 622:40
cprofitt[AGREED]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists22:40
MootBotAGREED received: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists22:40
jpdsSo, you lot don't want a list at lists.ubuntu.com?22:40
=== nhandler is now known as Guest28052
VantraxIts likely that thats where the list will be made22:40
pleia2it would be nice to have ubuntu-education :)22:40
=== Guest28052 is now known as nhandler_
cprofitt+1 pleia222:41
cprofittnext topic Vantrax ?22:41
nhandler_jpds: Doesn't the team need to be an official Ubuntu team to use lists.ubuntu.com22:41
pleia2and the ubuntu-classroom would simply be an aggregation of events in the #ubuntu-classroom channel22:41
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
jpdspleia2: Someone beat you to it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education22:42
cprofitt{TOPIC]Training/Education focus22:42
MootBotNew Topic: Training/Education focus22:42
nhandlerjpds: Those darn edubuntu people ;)22:42
pleia2oh, edubuntu?22:42
cprofittwe can be ubuntu-community-education22:42
jpdsnhandler: I'd have to check policy for non-LoCo mailing lists first.22:42
Vantraxwe will work something out:P22:42
nhandlerjpds: I'll talk with the brainstorm people. I know they recently moved from launchpad to lists.ubuntu.com22:43
VantraxTo start with its been suggest that we start with three basic streems of courses.22:43
VantraxOne aimed at new users to learn the basics of how Ubuntu works and how to work with your system.22:43
Vantraxa more sysadmin based stream to learn how to administrate Ubuntu system for business and educational environments.22:44
Vantraxlastly a contributor stream that focuses on learning how to contribute to the development of Ubuntu22:44
VantraxNew User Sample Course Ideas:22:45
VantraxLearn about the terminal, how installing applications and repositories work, filling in a bug reports, modifying your desktop and theming, Root and Sudo, Partitioning and fstab, how to use IRC, how to use the Ubuntu Wiki, how to use Launchpad (Bugs and Answers), Linux file permissions, and the linux file system hiarchy.22:45
cprofittI would like to suggest another stream - an Trainer stream -- a course to help people who want to be trainers22:45
VantraxSysAdmin Sample Course Ideas:22:45
VantraxBasic Security Practices, Apparmor and Iptables, Networked logins using pam modules, locking down the gnome desktop, mantaining large scale SOE deployments (cssh and rc.local), automating remote backups, and Ubuntu SOE development.22:45
cprofittI think it is critical that we be able to 'grow' people as trainers22:45
VantraxContributor Sample Course Ideas:22:46
VantraxPython Programming, how to use bzr, how to build a package, Introduction to Kernel Compiling, Introduction to Compiling, How to Triage Bugs, introduction to Launchpad Translations,22:46
JoshuaRLcprofitt: that would be covered in the contributor stream right?22:46
cprofittperhaps, but not by what Vantrax just posted...22:46
VantraxNow there are also options for a security stream looked at as well focusing more on  advanced security practices, encryption, intrustion detection, and penetration testing (nubuntu style). This however is out of scope initially due to its complex nature.22:46
nhandlerVantrax: Have you talked with james_w yet? He is currently the Dean of the MOTU School22:46
Vantraxnot yet, hence why I was askin you if anyone else from MOTU should be here:P22:47
cprofittVantrax, pleia2 what are your thoughts on developing the instructors?22:47
* nhandler doesn't remember being asked that22:47
VantraxAs said, these are just samples for discussion to get an idea22:47
pleia2cprofitt: no comments, good idea22:47
nhandlercprofitt: I think those types of sessions would be great to give, especially before an Open Week or Dev Week22:47
Vantraxcprofitt: good idea22:47
cprofittI just can not see us growing the offerings unless we ensure people are ready to be instructors22:48
cprofittso it seems to be central to the success of the project22:48
VantraxI would defineately agree22:48
Vantraxgah, horrible spelling22:49
JoshuaRLcprofitt: but maybe it could be in the contributor stream.  stickeyed, so to speak, but it makes sense for it to be there.22:49
cprofittI do not think this needs a vote... we need to flesh that out and work with the stakeholders22:49
VantraxJoshuaRL: I would think that would be the right spot to put it22:49
cprofittwhich I believe brings us to our next topic22:49
Vantraxthats the next bit:P22:49
cprofitt[TOPIC]Identifying Stakeholders22:49
MootBotNew Topic: Identifying Stakeholders22:49
VantraxSo now that we have an idea who we are looking at, who are our stakeholders for this project?22:50
nhandlerI would definitely try and get james_w involved22:50
VantraxI would guess were looking at MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, New Users Network22:51
JoshuaRLRocket2DMn: documentation team should be included, right?22:51
VantraxI dont think NUN is active..22:51
pleia2NUN is dead22:51
nhandlerVantrax: It isn't last I checked22:51
cprofittMOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation -- those are the right groups?22:52
JoshuaRLsounds good cprofitt22:53
Vantraxalso if anyone can supply contact leads for the education programs that would be good:P22:53
VantraxI have about half of them22:53
nhandlerWho do you need Vantrax ?22:53
cprofitt[VOTE]Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation22:53
MootBotPlease vote on: Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation.22:53
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:53
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:53
Vantraxi have motu now, but email would be nice22:53
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:53
MootBot+1 received from JoshuaRL. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:53
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 322:53
MootBot+1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 422:53
MootBot+1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 522:53
MootBot+1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 622:53
MootBot+1 received from tim_sharitt. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 722:53
MootBotFinal result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 722:54
cprofitt[AGREED]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation22:54
MootBotAGREED received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation22:54
cprofitt[ACTION]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt22:54
MootBotACTION received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt22:54
JoshuaRLVantrax: matthew east (mdke) mdke@ubuntu.com for Doc team22:54
JoshuaRLor cprofitt  :)22:54
nhandlerjames_w for MOTU, probably bdmurray for Bug Squad22:55
VantraxRocket2DMn: who runs the bugsquad training?22:55
nhandlerVantrax: They don't really have an active training program afaik. But bdmurray is in charge of the team22:56
Vantraxokies, they have alot of material that ive seen22:56
pleia2yeah, they do regular bug days that include training22:57
pleia2but it's not that specific22:57
cprofitt[TOPIC]Developing Online Courseware22:57
MootBotNew Topic: Developing Online Courseware22:57
nhandlerpleia2: The bug days aren't really training sessions22:57
Vantraxwe should make it a little more, even if it is just on the moodle and not in IRC22:57
cprofittVantrax tells me that this topic is my ball...22:57
pleia2nhandler: right, but if people ask for help on how to get started they get help22:57
pleia2which is why I say it's not that specific :)22:57
Vantraxneed to make it a little easier, and a little more specific:P22:58
cprofittWhen it comes to Moodle there are two types of on-line courses that I am familiar with22:58
cprofittinstructor lead and self-paced22:58
pleia2Vantrax: I dunno, I think we need to ask them how things are going and offer help if they want it ;)22:58
Vantraxyep, thats all im planning on with anyone22:58
cprofittInstructor lead is a course that will make use of wiki material, activities in moodle, forum posts and IRC sessions22:59
cprofittself-paced would involve moodle activites and wiki information that people would walk through themselve22:59
VantraxOver time I would guess those resources would probably all end up in moodle (aside from forum posts and active IRC sessions)23:00
cprofitton their own23:00
cprofittVantrax, I see no reason to duplicate the material that is naturally going to be in the wiki23:00
cprofittinside of Moodle23:00
cprofittcreate activities, etc for it sure...23:00
JoshuaRLcprofitt: self paced would probably be a re-tooling of the instructor led info, right?23:00
pleia2Vantrax: perhaps, but I think we should always be mindful of accessibility, it would be ashame to insist upon everything being in moodle and then lose that resource at some point23:00
cprofittbut the base information should likely stay in the wiki23:00
pleia2that happened to Classroom, Classroom summaries were put on a blog, which disappeared :(23:01
VantraxI tend to think that training and information are presented very differently23:01
cprofittVantrax, yes, but in a great many courses they use text books written by others23:01
cprofittand the instructor guides people through the material...23:01
VantraxNo argument there:P23:01
cprofittgives them activities to ensure they learn the knowledge and can apply it23:02
VantraxMore thinking for the self paced courses where it is not instructor led23:02
cprofittfor me the wiki is the text book23:02
cprofittwith self-paced the material can link to the wiki23:02
cprofittand then give them exercises23:02
cprofittinternal to Moodle23:02
cprofittI think the idea will have to be massaged as we move forward with it...23:02
Vantraxas with everything:P23:03
cprofittbut as we are not building the entire core of knowledge from the ground up we have to respect the normal location of this knowledge23:03
Vantraxcprofitt: +123:03
cprofittcurious on pleia2 and nhandler and Rocket2DMn - thoughts23:03
cprofittJoshuaRL, ?23:04
pleia2I'm good23:04
nhandlercprofitt: Who is going to be in charge of keeping the online stuff up-to-date?23:04
forestpixiethat sounds right to me cprofitt23:04
JoshuaRLi like the idea of using existing info for the instructor led courses23:05
cprofittnhandler, I would assume that the wiki would fall to any of the people who would normally do that...23:05
tim_sharittsounds good cprofitt :)23:05
Vantraxnhandler: the stuff in moodle or wiki or?23:05
JoshuaRLthe less duplication, the better.23:05
cprofittand that instructors teaching that course would bear soem of that burden too23:05
cprofittthe Moodle course would be maintained just by the instructors23:05
cprofittdoes that sound good nhandler ?23:05
nhandlerIt sounds good, we'll see if it works23:06
cprofitt[TOPIC]Project Milestones23:06
MootBotNew Topic: Project Milestones23:06
cprofittback to you Vantrax23:06
VantraxThis is pretty simple and quick23:06
VantraxJust a little breakdown of how things should go forward from here (pick it apart)23:07
VantraxThe information discussed here will form a project plan with the scope and aim23:07
Vantraxthat will be posted to planet, and mailed to everyone23:08
VantraxThen we get the initial deployment of moodle started and get the theme done23:08
VantraxWe need to create content guidelines (presentation standards and layout)23:08
Vantraxthen moderator groups based on contributing areas23:08
Vantraxwe need to get sample courses delivered in moodle using the standards, preferably getting the entire new user stream ready as a priority23:09
VantraxAnnouncement to community and a call for more topics that people want covered23:09
cprofittyes, and that sample can be a course on how to use Moodle as an instructor23:10
Vantraxmore course development based on feedback with at least one streem complete23:10
JoshuaRLcprofitt: nice idea23:10
Vantraxthe of course an official launch23:10
JoshuaRLVantrax: yeah, the new user stream should definitely be a high priority23:10
cprofittMoodle also allows for you to use an existing course as a template... so we should plan on using that feature as well23:11
nhandlercprofitt: Does Moodle support OpenID?23:11
Vantraxnhandler: it does23:11
cprofittnhandler, I believe we are working on that...23:11
cprofittnot sure if we have the config done on it though23:11
cprofittbodhi is the man with the plan there23:11
Vantraxnope, bodhi will be working on it23:11
nhandlerWe could maybe use that along with the Launchpad API to grant certain privileges on Moodle to members of certain teams23:12
Vantraxnhandler: that would be a good idea23:12
cprofittwe will have to have admins, instructors and students23:12
cprofittthe instructor lead classes will need periods in which the course can be registered for23:12
Vantraxalso probably a moderators for a stream23:13
cprofittself-paced can be 100% open23:13
cprofittlast topic Vantrax ?23:13
cprofitt[TOPIC]Session feedback mechanism23:13
MootBotNew Topic: Session feedback mechanism23:13
Vantraxforestpixie asked about this23:14
forestpixieBodhi wanted us to look into having some sort of feedback mechanism that users can access after sessions have run - the idea at the moment being a simple poll thread on the forum. He's talking to admin (at some point) about where we should do so - but does anyone have an problem with doing it that way or any other ideas.23:14
Vantraxthat would be my idea23:14
nhandlerIf we are creating an LP team, we could also put the poll on LP23:14
cprofittI agree we will want some form of feedback...23:14
Vantraxhave a are of the forum related to questions and feedback on a specific session23:14
Vantraxhave an area23:14
forestpixienhandler: we were looking at new threads/pols for each session that runs23:14
nhandlerOr we could also put feedback on the wiki below the IRC logs23:14
cprofittI think we need to be cautious what we ask though... and how the information is processed23:15
JoshuaRLcprofitt: theres whole degrees in that sentence23:15
forestpixie+1 - just  a simple 1-5 poll and then if people wish to post in thread they can23:15
cprofittJoshuaRL, yes there are23:15
Vantraxin principle I agree with the idea forestpixie but it will need to be dug into a bit23:15
pleia2nhandler: I like that, or failing that we use one of these other ideas and then link to the logs page so it's all accessible from one spot at least23:16
cprofittforestpixie, I think we can work on the content (questions) at a later time...23:16
pleia2some people have trouble with editing wikis23:16
forestpixiepleia2: +123:16
nhandlerBecause in my opinion, the comments are much more valuable than the actual rating23:16
JoshuaRLcprofitt: i have a friend thats a marketing major, i could ask him for suggestions23:16
cprofittWe could even use forums for it if we wanted a more simple place for editing23:16
forestpixiesounds good JoshuaRL23:16
cprofittthat would expose the courses in another place as well23:16
forestpixiethat is bodhi's thought cprofitt23:17
cprofittJoshuaRL, it is less marketing...23:17
cprofittand more getting useful constructive information23:17
JoshuaRLcprofitt: but it IS marketing, from the feedback idea.  thats a big part of marketing.23:17
cprofittno axe grinding, etc23:17
cprofittany other ideas that anyone else has?23:17
* cprofitt motions to close the meeting23:18
forestpixieabove all it needs to be simple or people won't bother23:18
VantraxSo the project info we discussed here will be written up then mailed out and I will post it to planet23:18
tim_sharitt+1 cprofitt23:18
nhandlerVantrax: Are the logs/minutes going to be on the wiki as well?23:18
forestpixieI'll put the log on the FG wiki in a minute23:18
MootBotMeeting finished at 17:18.23:18
Vantraxnot too bad23:19
JoshuaRLthanks Vantrax cprofitt pleia223:19
Vantraxran faster than I thought:P23:19
forestpixiethanks all23:19
nhandlerforestpixie: You can take the logs from MootBot23:19
cprofittthanks for coming everyone!!!23:19
cprofittI appreciated it.23:19
forestpixienhandler: how23:19
pleia2thanks guys :)23:19
cprofittI am gathering the mootbot logs now23:19
cprofittand will put them on our meeting page23:19
Vantraxthanks for comining people23:20
forestpixiecool saves me then cprofitt23:20
Vantraxill have an email out with the info and an action plan later in the week23:20
cprofittanyone know how long Mootbot takes to update the page with the logs?23:34
SiDiour page has been updated quite fast23:34
SiDidid you #endmeeting ?23:34
SiDi(yes, you did, sorry :p)23:35
SiDicprofitt, you might want to ask knome if there's anything particular to do23:35
cprofittknome, how do I get the logs from my meeting?23:36
cprofittthanks SiDi23:36
SiDicprofitt, you're welcome23:36
cprofittSiDi, I am beginning to think it did not make the logs...23:37
cprofittthe last line was - MootBot> Logs available at http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/23:37
cprofittand that does not look like the result they show on the wiki23:37
SiDii never used that bot honnestly23:38
SiDii hope this isnt somethinng you forgot to do before the meeting :/23:39
cprofitthave you used a different one?23:39
cprofittI hope not as well...23:39
cprofittnothing appears to be listed on the wiki23:39
SiDinope. i just know that knome used it and we have our logs ;)23:39

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