[05:41] <vikashkoushik> Hi Guys
[05:41] <vikashkoushik> I am trying to become a member of Ubuntu
[05:42] <vikashkoushik> I thought I'll get some help from the Indian LoCo team but
[05:43] <vikashkoushik> they think that I am trying to become a member so that i'll get the email id with which they think that i'll show of in front of my friends.
[05:43] <vikashkoushik> I am not getting good response from them
[05:43] <vikashkoushik> need help guys
[05:47] <vikashkoushik> pls reply
[05:53] <vikashkoushik> any body there????/
[06:34] <vikashkoushik> anybody there?
[18:30]  * charlie-tca waves
[18:31] <knome> o/
[18:31] <knome> let's wait for other to arrive
[18:31] <knome> cody-somerville, will you be the chair?
[18:33] <j1mc_> hi all
[18:33] <j1mc_> i'll brb
[18:33] <charlie-tca> Hello, j1mc_
[18:33] <knome> hi jim
[18:34] <knome> ok
[18:34] <charlie-tca> knome: did you ping cody-somerville
[18:34] <knome> yes, on jabber also
[18:35] <knome> i can be the chair if he doesn't show up
[18:37] <j1mc_> hi all
[18:37] <knome> hi jim
[18:37] <knome> i suppose we should just start
[18:37] <knome> is that ok by everyone?
[18:38] <JPohlmann> Sure
[18:38] <charlie-tca> Let's do it.
[18:38] <j1mc> knome: sure
[18:38] <knome> #startmeeting
[18:38] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:38. The chair is knome.
[18:38] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:38] <knome> [TOPIC] Review last meetings action items
[18:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review last meetings action items
[18:38] <j1mc> it's been a while since i looked at the meeing notes from the last meeting
[18:39] <knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:39] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:39] <knome> There's a lot of action items for Cody.
[18:40] <knome> We haven't worked much on the wiki and the website with Jim.
[18:40] <charlie-tca> team calendar is on google now
[18:40] <knome> charlie-tca, did you set up a 5-a-day xubuntu team?
[18:40] <knome> charlie-tca, link?
[18:40] <charlie-tca> let me find it.
[18:41] <knome> JPohlmann, have you "filed bugs against packages in xfce to indicate out-of-date documentation"?
[18:41] <charlie-tca> I don't think we can set up a 5-a-day team after reading all the information. I think we have to do it as individuals and loco's instead
[18:41] <knome> charlie-tca, right.
[18:42] <knome> do we agree on this? :)
[18:42] <JPohlmann> knome: Uh, no.
[18:42] <charlie-tca> Here is the google calendare link:
[18:42] <knome> JPohlmann, no problem. :)
[18:42] <charlie-tca> https://www.google.com/calendar/render?cid=N2FqN2dnMWx2MjMzODJzajZwbWNzN3M5bnNAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ&invEmailKey=cjk%40teamcharliesangels.com%3A16633eb577e94199078b6c024e975a77c242a377
[18:42] <knome> ouch
[18:42] <charlie-tca> I think?
[18:42] <TheSheep> wheeee
[18:43] <j1mc> they have modified how 5-a-day is done.  they did it just before the global bug jam.  it is more integrated into launchpad now.
[18:43] <j1mc> hi TheSheep
[18:43] <charlie-tca> Yes, j1mc. But individuals are still not being updated
[18:43] <knome> [LINK] http://tinyurl.com/xubuntuteamcal
[18:43] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/xubuntuteamcal
[18:43]  * nhandler arrives
[18:43] <j1mc> charlie-tca: correct.  i think it has a bit less functionality now.
[18:43] <j1mc> it's still a work-in-progress
[18:44] <TheSheep> "The one time calendar access transfer key is invalid"
[18:44]  * charlie-tca thinks "a bit?"!
[18:44] <knome> should we try to create the xubuntu group or try to get people working with their loco's?
[18:44] <j1mc> i don't even really know the status of it now.
[18:44] <knome> TheSheep, d'oh
[18:44] <TheSheep> you need to copy the other link
[18:44] <knome> TheSheep, works for me.
[18:44] <TheSheep> not the 'one time' one
[18:44] <charlie-tca> knome: delay it for now, until they get 5-a-day working again
[18:44] <TheSheep> knome: apparently you were first :)
[18:45] <charlie-tca> the tiny url link works
[18:45] <knome> [AGREED] Delay setting up Xubuntu 5-a-day team until 5-a-day is working correctly again.
[18:45] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Delay setting up Xubuntu 5-a-day team until 5-a-day is working correctly again.
[18:45] <charlie-tca> or did I send my own calendar out?
[18:47] <knome> [TOPIC] Team updates
[18:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
[18:47] <j1mc> packaging?
[18:47] <j1mc> start there?
[18:47] <knome> a new topic? :)
[18:48] <j1mc> no, start with the packaging team update.  or whoever wants to start first. :)
[18:48] <charlie-tca> who is packaging? mr_pouit ?
[18:48] <knome> cody, ncommander maybe, mr_pouit
[18:48] <knome> There's a lot of reporting from last month, but none yet from April.
[18:49] <knome> ah, there is some.
[18:49] <knome> it's mainly cody done some things.
[18:49] <knome> [ACTION] Team leaders will update Team Report before 22th April.
[18:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Team leaders will update Team Report before 22th April.
[18:49] <knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
[18:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
[18:50] <knome> any discussion about team updates?
[18:50] <charlie-tca> yes
[18:50] <nhandler> I would just like to say that for karmic, I hope to be able to help out with packaging for xubuntu
[18:50] <charlie-tca> The next two mondays are ISO testing days
[18:51] <knome> [ACTION] Next two mondays are ISO testing days.
[18:51] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Next two mondays are ISO testing days.
[18:51] <charlie-tca> Since we release the RC on April 16 and Final on April 23, we need them tested
[18:51] <JPohlmann> I remember Cody was hoping to get Xfce 4.6.1 into jaunty.
[18:51] <charlie-tca> On Mondays, we smoke test as much as possible,
[18:51] <knome> JPohlmann, me too.
[18:51] <JPohlmann> We're currently in the process of releasing it but it might take a few days.
[18:52] <JPohlmann> Is anyone able to tell how long packaging it would take?
[18:53] <knome> didn't ncommander package it the last time?
[18:53] <JPohlmann> Together with mr_pouit, yeah.
[18:53] <charlie-tca> yes, he did
[18:54] <JPohlmann> Though that was an update from 4.4.x to 4.6.0. 4.6.0 to 4.6.1 is a different thing but I suppose it'll take less time ;)
[18:54] <j1mc> right
[18:55] <j1mc> JPohlmann: Jérôme Guelfucci is making good use of identi.ca in providing updates about xfce progress.  I picked up his release of Gigolo 0.3 from there.
[18:56] <knome> right.. anything else about the team reports?
[18:56] <j1mc> any other packaging updates?
[18:57] <j1mc> for documentation, i'm importing the translations.
[18:57] <JPohlmann> j1mc: I read your mail about ident.ca. The way I see it it's just a matter of which channel to use in order to push information about updates out to the world. It doesn't really matter whether it's identi.ca, a mailing list or a weblog.
[18:57] <knome> j1mc, from where?
[18:57] <knome> lp?
[18:57] <j1mc> JPohlmann: to some extent, yes, but there are some people who may only find out about somehting like that through just one of those channels.
[18:58] <charlie-tca> I am compiling a list of Jaunty critical bugs for Xubuntu that will be posted to the wiki
[18:58] <j1mc> knome: rosetta / launchpad.  matthew east and Adi Roiban are helping me.
[18:59] <JPohlmann> j1mc: True. Therefor we have official channels like the xfce-announce and xfce mailinglist.
[18:59] <JPohlmann> But it's nice if someone takes care of another well-known one. We can't support everything obviously ;)
[18:59] <j1mc> JPohlmann: right.  i certainly don't see identi.ca updates as a "must have," just a "nice to have"
[18:59] <knome> j1mc, charlie-tca: i updated the team report for you.
[19:00] <charlie-tca> thanks
[19:00] <knome> any other updates or discussions?
[19:00] <j1mc> knome: yes
[19:00] <knome> go on :)
[19:01] <j1mc> are we just doing team reports stuff about current status, or are we also discussing other plans?
[19:01] <SiDi> jlmc whats the latest deadline for doc translations ?
[19:01] <j1mc> SiDi: they should be in now, but because we are in universe, mdke says we're ok.
[19:02] <j1mc> i'll get them in this weekend.
[19:02] <knome> j1mc, there is an agenda item for things relevant to finalizing 9.04
[19:02] <SiDi> j1mc, ok, thanks, cause we're a  bit late with french doc
[19:02] <j1mc> knome: ok, let's move on then.
[19:02] <j1mc> SiDi: hurry. :)
[19:02] <knome> j1mc, and an item for specs and blueprints for jaunty.
[19:02] <knome> *karmic
[19:02] <j1mc> knome: coolness.
[19:02] <j1mc> i'm ok to move on if others are
[19:02] <knome> [TOPIC] Xubuntu plans for Ubuntu Open Week
[19:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu plans for Ubuntu Open Week
[19:03] <knome> there was some discussion about the xubuntu session
[19:03] <knome> on the mailing list mostly
[19:03] <charlie-tca> I have signed up for April 27 at 2100 UTC
[19:03] <knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
[19:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
[19:03] <charlie-tca> Are we doing more than one session?
[19:04] <knome> we might do two consecutive.
[19:04] <knome> charlie-tca, how much stuff do you have about Xubuntu QA in minutes?
[19:05] <charlie-tca> I don't know. Last time I thought I had 30 minutes, but it was only 10
[19:05] <charlie-tca> I did q & a for 20 minutes
[19:05] <knome> right.
[19:06] <charlie-tca> This time I have time to prepare, and can do an hour, if needed
[19:06] <knome> ok, so maybe we should go for two sessions
[19:06] <knome> i think the mail you sent was great.
[19:06] <charlie-tca> I want us out there. This is for the non-developers to find out how good we are!
[19:07] <j1mc> charlie-tca: i liked your email to the list, too.
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Thanks, but what are we going to do for more involvement through open week?
[19:07] <knome> [AGREED] We need to show off how good Xubuntu is to non-developers at Open Week
[19:07] <MootBot> AGREED received:  We need to show off how good Xubuntu is to non-developers at Open Week
[19:08] <knome> maybe we could do some slides to show
[19:08] <knome> and prepare as a group
[19:08] <charlie-tca> Keeping in mind, this is on IRC
[19:08] <knome> sure.
[19:08] <knome> i don't remember if it was openweek or developer week, but i saw a session with some slides
[19:09] <knome> and they were really great.
[19:09] <knome> they really supported the session
[19:09] <charlie-tca> If it works, let's do it
[19:09] <knome> well, we have to think about it
[19:09] <knome> shall we have a meeting about openweek later on?
[19:09] <charlie-tca> We have exactly two weeks
[19:09] <knome> yeah.
[19:10] <knome> next friday?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> If we are going to do that, should we grab the slot on thur right after training
[19:10] <charlie-tca> ?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> Should be lots of people around then
[19:10] <knome> right, let's do that
[19:10] <knome> will you sign up for that?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> Will do!
[19:11] <knome> [ACTION] Charlie signs up for another session at Ubuntu Open Week
[19:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie signs up for another session at Ubuntu Open Week
[19:11] <knome> thanks
[19:11] <knome> so, should we have a team/community planning meeting about these session??
[19:11] <knome> *sessions
[19:12] <j1mc> i think that would be helpful
[19:12] <j1mc> perhaps outline something via a google doc or gobby?
[19:12] <knome> any suggestions for date?
[19:12] <knome> sure
[19:12] <knome> gobby sounds good
[19:12] <SiDi> What about advertising the week on the irc channel ?
[19:13] <knome> [ACTION] Keep a meeting about the Open Week sessions and outline things on Gobby
[19:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Keep a meeting about the Open Week sessions and outline things on Gobby
[19:13] <knome> SiDi, sure.
[19:14] <knome> [ACTION] Everybody advertises Open Week on #xubuntu from now to eternity.
[19:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Everybody advertises Open Week on #xubuntu from now to eternity.
[19:14] <SiDi> even once its finished ? :)
[19:14] <j1mc> :)
[19:14] <knome> SiDi, there is always next one
[19:14] <nhandler> Blog posts on the planet might also help
[19:15] <knome> nhandler, about the xubuntu sessions?
[19:15] <knome> nhandler, or about open week?
[19:15] <j1mc> the xubuntu sessions, of course
[19:15] <nhandler> knome: Both. Blog about Open Week and mention the Xubuntu sessions
[19:15] <knome> lol
[19:15] <j1mc> perhaps outlining what we'll cover
[19:16] <nhandler> You can also blog about it afterwards for people who missed the session
[19:16] <knome> i will add that as idea, as i don't know who will do it
[19:16] <charlie-tca> Somebody gonna teach me how to make gobby work?
[19:16] <j1mc> cody-somerville and i are ok with the bloggings
[19:16] <nhandler> charlie-tca: They might have some docs from the last UDS
[19:16] <knome> [IDEA] Blog about (Xubuntu) Open Week (Sessions) before and after (preferably at Ubuntu Planet)
[19:16] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Blog about (Xubuntu) Open Week (Sessions) before and after (preferably at Ubuntu Planet)
[19:16] <charlie-tca> I couldn't make it work then, either
[19:16] <knome> charlie-tca, i can teach.
[19:17] <j1mc> charlie-tca: it took me a bit, too.  there are some really great gobby session notes available from the last UDS.
[19:17] <knome> j1mc, i don't have ubuntu membership yet, so i can't write to planet.
[19:17] <j1mc> charlie-tca: "from" the last uds.  not really how to use gobby, but gobby being used to keep notes
[19:17] <knome> anything else about open week?
[19:17] <j1mc> knome: that will have to be remedied. :)
[19:17] <knome> we have items to cover
[19:18] <charlie-tca> I know that. I couldn't follow nothing though, because I could not get gobby to work
[19:18] <j1mc> ok, let's move on
[19:18] <j1mc> charlie-tca: yeah :/
[19:18] <charlie-tca> Gobby notes suck if you can't work gobby
[19:18] <knome> [TOPIC] Discuss any issues relevant to finalizing the 9.04 release
[19:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss any issues relevant to finalizing the 9.04 release
[19:18] <nhandler> charlie-tca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSKarmic/RemoteParticipation has a section on Gobby
[19:18]  * knome gets something to drink.
[19:20] <knome> JPohlmann, so will you investigate getting xfce 4.6.1 in jaunty with the packaging team?
[19:21] <JPohlmann> There's not much to do about it other than to get 4.6.1 out as soon as possible. I'll bug our release manager again.
[19:21] <knome> [ACTION] Jannis bugs Xfce release manager in getting 4.6.1 out as soon as possible.
[19:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Jannis bugs Xfce release manager in getting 4.6.1 out as soon as possible.
[19:21] <j1mc> i don't know what kind of time crunch we are under to get these items in.
[19:22] <j1mc> i guess cody would know
[19:22] <nhandler> j1mc: The sooner the better
[19:22] <JPohlmann> Right
[19:22] <j1mc> nhandler: right
[19:22] <knome> [ACTION] Jannis talks with Cody about including 4.6.1.
[19:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Jannis talks with Cody about including 4.6.1.
[19:22] <knome> JPohlmann, no objections! :P
[19:22] <knome> any other issues?
[19:22] <knome> oh
[19:22] <nhandler> j1mc: The archive is frozen and we are 2 weeks from Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-April/000561.html
[19:22] <knome> [ACTION] Charlie is compiling a list of critical bugs in Jaunty.
[19:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie is compiling a list of critical bugs in Jaunty.
[19:23] <knome> nhandler, cody can get final freeze exceptions
[19:23] <knome> nhandler, and he's *really good* in that.
[19:23]  * j1mc nods
[19:23] <knome> [ACTION] Jim is importing documentation from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
[19:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim is importing documentation from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
[19:24] <nhandler> I personally would be hesitant to push a new version of xfce during final freeze. Read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze
[19:24] <knome> anything else we have to discuss about 9.04?
[19:24] <j1mc> as a note, it's the documentation translations :)
[19:24] <knome> right...
[19:24] <j1mc> :)
[19:25] <knome> [ACTION] Jim is importing documentation translations from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
[19:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim is importing documentation translations from Rosetta/Launchpad with help from Matthew East and Adi Roiban.
[19:25] <j1mc> nothing else to talk about concerning 9.04 from me.
[19:25] <knome> anybody else?
[19:26] <knome> the artwork is in a quite good shape
[19:26] <knome> the gdm background is now converted from svg to png buildtime.
[19:26] <knome> ok right, let's go on
[19:26] <j1mc> +1
[19:27] <knome> [TOPIC] Specifications and blueprints for (UDS) Karmic
[19:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specifications and blueprints for (UDS) Karmic
[19:27] <knome> i've registered two specs
[19:27] <knome> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-visual-concept
[19:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-visual-concept
[19:27] <knome> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-artwork-build-scripts
[19:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+spec/xubuntu-artwork-build-scripts
[19:27] <knome> we need more specs
[19:29] <j1mc> knome: do you think that the wiki mention of wiki pages should go under it's own spec?
[19:29] <j1mc> "We also should discuss about how to make the Xubuntu wiki pages etc. look consistent with each other and not look totally outdated compared to the new artwork."
[19:29] <j1mc> it seems like that is a separate item
[19:29] <knome> right
[19:30] <j1mc> [Agreed] We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team
[19:30] <knome> it kind of is, but there's no reason to have another spec for it.
[19:30] <knome> [AGREED] We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team.
[19:30] <j1mc> hrm. mootbot is not listening to me
[19:30] <MootBot> AGREED received:  We need more specifications from the Xubuntu team.
[19:30] <knome> of course not, because i'm the chair :P
[19:30] <j1mc> :)
[19:30] <charlie-tca> A lot of those specs will come from UDS, too, though
[19:31] <knome> sure
[19:31] <j1mc> we should look at what specs got implemented for 9.04, revisit those specs
[19:31] <j1mc> at least *also* do that
[19:31] <j1mc> and look forward
[19:32] <knome> [AGREED] Look at old specifications and whether they are implemented and revisit or mark superseded.
[19:32] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Look at old specifications and whether they are implemented and revisit or mark superseded.
[19:32] <j1mc> JPohlmann: I will bug the one guy who wrote about putting the xfce documentation on the wiki.
[19:32] <j1mc> I think that's a good idea.  Xfce needs updated docs
[19:32] <knome> [AGREED] Xfce needs updated documentation.
[19:32] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Xfce needs updated documentation.
[19:32] <JPohlmann> j1mc: You mean Nick?
[19:33] <j1mc> JPohlmann: Mike Massonnet brought it up last
[19:33] <JPohlmann> The main problem might be to find a suitable wiki system that supports generating nice offline documentation.
[19:34] <knome> sorry guys, but let's leave open discussion for the end and get forward in the agenda, shall we? :)
[19:34] <j1mc> knome: sure
[19:34] <nhandler> JPohlmann: Why not go the other way. Aren't there docbook->moin tools?
[19:34] <JPohlmann> j1mc: Okay ... I guess it's best if we discuss that on the xfce4-dev mailinglist.
[19:34] <knome> [TOPIC] Brainstorm ideas
[19:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Brainstorm ideas
[19:34] <knome> #
[19:35] <knome> # Uncheck "Save session for future logins" in Quit dialog by default
[19:35] <knome> [LINK] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/16756/
[19:35] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/16756/
[19:35] <JPohlmann> nhandler: Because docbook is kind of a high barrier. And offline docs are painful to maintain.
[19:35] <knome> folks! concentratE!
[19:36] <j1mc> :)
[19:36] <knome> is there any updates on saving session thing?
[19:36] <j1mc> knome: i don't have any updates
[19:36] <knome> JPohlmann?
[19:37] <j1mc> let's table that one.
[19:37] <knome> [LINK] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10852/
[19:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10852/
[19:37] <knome> "Update Xubuntu artwork on the live cd boot screen"
[19:37] <knome> for Karmic.
[19:38] <knome> i update the karmic artwork spec to include live cd artowrk
[19:38] <j1mc> cool :)
[19:38] <knome> charlie-tca, you here? :]
[19:38] <charlie-tca> Shouldn't that be the same artwork as GDM?
[19:38] <knome> [TOPIC] Increased tests for Live CD session
[19:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Increased tests for Live CD session
[19:38] <charlie-tca> I got lost
[19:38] <knome> charlie-tca, sure. but also the live cd boot menu
[19:39] <j1mc> i think the issue was that xubuntu had the same colored backgroupd as ubuntu during the install.
[19:39] <knome> charlie-tca, the usplash-like menu
[19:39] <j1mc> the usplash menu, too.
[19:39] <charlie-tca> I have expanded the testing page. I will be splitting the short test into desktop/live cd and installed testing
[19:39] <j1mc> not sure how this will work with xubuntu being in universe.
[19:39] <knome> whatever the issues are, we will fix them in karmic
[19:39] <knome> charlie-tca, can you provide links again?
[19:40] <charlie-tca> This is what we have: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
[19:40] <charlie-tca> I need to split it so it is not so long
[19:40] <knome> [ACTION] (Brainstorm ideas) Live CD boot screen/artwork graphics will be fixed in Karmic.
[19:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (Brainstorm ideas) Live CD boot screen/artwork graphics will be fixed in Karmic.
[19:40] <knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
[19:40] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short
[19:41] <knome> [ACTION] Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorted and readable.
[19:41] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie to work on the Testing wiki pages and split them to be shorted and readable.
[19:41] <knome> *shorter :P
[19:41] <charlie-tca> :-)
[19:42] <knome> do we need to review the items?
[19:42] <j1mc> The Ubuntu documentation team is pretty active lately.  I'm not sure of all of the changes that we'll be making, but we should have better documentation for 9.20.
[19:42] <knome> 9.10 :)
[19:42] <j1mc> heh, yes.  9.10
[19:42] <knome> [AGREED] We should have much better documentation for Karmic.
[19:42] <MootBot> AGREED received:  We should have much better documentation for Karmic.
[19:43] <j1mc> If you could set an action item to update the css for the Xubuntu documentation, I will be adding that as a spec
[19:43] <knome> [ACTION] Pasi to bug about people about joining the Xubuntu Team and write documentation.
[19:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Pasi to bug about people about joining the Xubuntu Team and write documentation.
[19:43] <knome> [ACTION] Pasi to update the CSS for the Xubuntu documentation with Jim.
[19:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Pasi to update the CSS for the Xubuntu documentation with Jim.
[19:44] <knome> [ACTION] Jim adds a specification about branding and reworking the Xubuntu documentation artwork and looks.
[19:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim adds a specification about branding and reworking the Xubuntu documentation artwork and looks.
[19:44] <j1mc> This release we tried to use yelp, and it didn't work out, so I spent time toward the end of the cycle converting things to the older format rather than writing a lot of new stuff.
[19:44]  * SiDi is fine with CSS, if help is needed there.
[19:45] <j1mc> SiDi: cool - are you on the xubuntu-devel mailing list?
[19:45] <SiDi> yes
[19:45] <knome> there is nothing like [INFO] :(
[19:45] <SiDi> there should be a [LOVE] one.
[19:46] <knome> [ACTION] SiDi helps knome and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
[19:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  SiDi helps knome and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
[19:46] <knome> right.. that wasn't particularly logical.
[19:46] <knome> [ACTION] Steve (SiDi) helps Pasi and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
[19:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Steve (SiDi) helps Pasi and Jim with the documentation CSS if needed.
[19:47] <knome> charlie-tca, anything else about the tests for live cd session?
[19:47] <charlie-tca> Not right now. If anyone thinks something else should be included in testing, let me know.
[19:47] <charlie-tca> Please!
[19:48] <knome> ok
[19:48] <j1mc> charlie-tca: will do.
[19:48] <knome> i think we should leave the karmic artwork brainstorm for later.
[19:48] <j1mc> knome: sounds good
[19:49] <knome> at least to some time cody is available
[19:49] <charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, I want to try shipping Xubuntu 9.04 cd's in north america.
[19:49] <charlie-tca> This is on my own, out of my own pocket.
[19:49] <knome> right.
[19:49] <j1mc> wow
[19:49] <knome> that would be great.
[19:49] <knome> i think we need to discuss that more widely.
[19:49] <charlie-tca> Start with North America until I can deal with customs
[19:49] <knome> i am willing to ship xubuntu cd's as well.
[19:50] <knome> charlie-tca, let's put that into the next community meeting agenda
[19:50] <charlie-tca> Great, knome
[19:50] <knome> we definitely need cody's opinion
[19:50] <charlie-tca> Well, we start shipping in a couple of weeks.
[19:50] <knome> "we" ?
[19:50] <knome> :)
[19:50] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu
[19:51] <knome> w00t?
[19:51] <knome> via what
[19:51] <SiDi> I think charlie-tca means we should have an agreement on this before 23
[19:51] <SiDi> so we can be ready to ship xubuntu at the same time than ubuntu and kubuntu
[19:51] <charlie-tca> Thank you, SiDi
[19:52] <charlie-tca> And if anyone requests it, we should be able to send out the cd
[19:52] <knome> oh right.
[19:52] <charlie-tca> No bulk shipments, one per address
[19:52] <knome> then let's discuss about it at the meeting with open week stuff
[19:52] <knome> right?
[19:52] <charlie-tca> Okay
[19:52] <knome> [ACTION] Discuss shipping Xubuntu CD's in the Open Week planning session.
[19:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Discuss shipping Xubuntu CD's in the Open Week planning session.
[19:53] <knome> are we done or is there any other items?
[19:53] <knome> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[19:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[19:53] <charlie-tca> Like to thank everybody that showed up today.
[19:53] <j1mc> me too
[19:53] <knome> me too.
[19:53] <knome> i will set the minutes up.
[19:54] <j1mc> I've joined the gnome-doc mailing list, and as they look to make changes for gnome 3.0, i will try to make any new directions relatively platform independent
[19:54] <j1mc> at least, offer those suggestions up.
[19:54] <knome> [ACTION] Jim joined the gnome-dev mailing list and tries to make any new directions (relatively) platform independent
[19:54] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim joined the gnome-dev mailing list and tries to make any new directions (relatively) platform independent
[19:54] <charlie-tca> Oh, good.
[19:55] <j1mc> of course, i am just one dude, but if they are going to do something like replace yelp, why not replace it with something that can be used by something other than just gnome.
[19:55] <charlie-tca> One person at a time, right
[19:55] <knome> when was the last meeting?
[19:55] <knome> right, 15.2.
[19:55] <charlie-tca> two months ago?
[19:55] <j1mc> i feel like we had one in march
[19:56] <knome> there's no minutes up from it
[19:56] <j1mc> i just don't think the meeting page got updated.
[19:56] <knome> right
[19:56] <knome> i think i wasn't there
[19:56] <JPohlmann> j1mc: Sounds good
[19:56] <charlie-tca> We skipped march
[19:57] <j1mc> ah, ok
[19:57] <j1mc> ok, well... anything else?
[19:58] <knome> if there is anything else, please let us now in a few minutes :)
[19:59] <charlie-tca> Iḿ done
[19:59] <j1mc> i vote to adjourn the meeting :)
[19:59] <knome> #endmeeting
[19:59] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:59.
[19:59] <j1mc> thanks, all
[19:59] <knome> hmm... kinky timezone
[19:59] <j1mc> have a good rest of your weekend!
[19:59] <knome> you too
[19:59] <charlie-tca> Thanks, everybody.
[21:11] <cprofitt> Pricey you here?
[21:26] <cprofitt> .ubuntulog
[21:29] <ausimage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[21:29] <ausimage> ;)
[21:30] <cprofitt> thanks ausimage
[21:31] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[21:31] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:31. The chair is cprofitt.
[21:31] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:31] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[21:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:31.
[21:31] <cprofitt> alright... it works
[21:32] <SiDi> how did your meeting go ?
[21:32] <SiDi> not too much arguing ? :d
[21:32] <cprofitt> meeting starts in 28 minutes actually
[21:32] <SiDi> aw
[21:33] <cprofitt> was just testing the controls out
[21:33] <SiDi> What meeting is that ?
[21:33] <Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
[21:33] <SiDi> (i was here for the xubuntu one and i didnt leave channel, just curious about whats gonna go on ;p)
[21:34] <SiDi> Nice, i didn't know that group
[21:35] <cprofitt> join us then...
[21:35] <cprofitt> we appreciate all the feedback, advice and interested people that show up
[21:36] <SiDi> I've got a lot of work at the moment :)
[21:36] <cprofitt> no problem...
[21:36] <cprofitt> we will post logs...
[21:36] <SiDi> Personal and university projects. I can't join teams without having time available to contribute to what they do.
[21:36]  * cprofitt nods
[21:36] <cprofitt> I can understand that...
[21:37] <cprofitt> full time job and three kids are what eat my time
[21:37] <SiDi> i'll look after your team if i meet you at the UDS ;)
[21:37] <SiDi> ouch :P i can't even imagine having children right now :)
[21:41] <Vantrax> <- has a kid on the way
[21:43] <cprofitt> grats Vantrax
[21:43] <cprofitt> I have a three (1, 3, 8)
[21:44] <SiDi> I recommand you wait to see how they are at 13/14 before you make another one :>
[21:44] <cprofitt> I will  make no more...
[21:44] <cprofitt> I am too old for that now
[21:55]  * cprofitt FIVE minutes until the EDU meeting starts
[22:00] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[22:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is cprofitt.
[22:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:00] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Education Initiative
[22:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Education Initiative
[22:01] <cprofitt> Welcome everyone
[22:01] <cprofitt> This is the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education Focus Group
[22:01]  * pleia2 waves
[22:02] <cprofitt> Tonight we will be discussing our project of adopting Moodle and integrating it in with existing resources for Ubuntu Education
[22:02] <Vantrax> Thanks for coming pleia2
[22:02] <cprofitt> We are using MootBot and the instructions can be found here
[22:02] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[22:03] <cprofitt> I would like to thank everyone who has shown up for our meeting.
[22:03] <cprofitt> Now I would like to introduce the man leading the charge - Vantrax
[22:03] <cprofitt> take it away Vantrax
[22:03] <Vantrax> Sheesh....
[22:03] <Vantrax> that might be an overstatement:P
[22:04] <Vantrax> All right, for anyone that hasnt already seen it, the agenda can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
[22:04] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
[22:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
[22:04] <cprofitt> for the agenda
[22:05] <Vantrax> Im going to assume that no one here has an idea of what were doing and give a quick recap
[22:05] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Name of Project
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
[22:05] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Overview
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Overview
[22:05] <Vantrax> Our intention is to create an interactive learning environment to support new users becoming more engaged in the Ubuntu community. Our goal is to take new motivated users and turn them into contributing members of the community.
[22:06] <Vantrax> We plan to do this by using moodle to coordinate all the various methods currently being used to teach with all the different teams currently engaged in various sorts of training
[22:06] <Vantrax> The intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program. This training will cover some similar process but will not have any accreditation or certification associated with it, and may act as a feeder into the official components. The information contained is intended to suplement the work already being done by several groups in IRC training to make their programs easier to find, and easier to take.
[22:07] <Vantrax> [TOPIC] Name of Project
[22:07] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Name of Project
[22:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
[22:08] <Vantrax> First bit off the line, we have to name what the project is going to be. The suggestions from community and canonical staff have been to include community and training or education. We are also currently petitioning to use the Ubuntu name and expect that it is likely to be granted
[22:09] <Vantrax> Aside from Ubuntu Community Training, and Ubuntu Community Education are there any other suggestions that people would like considered
[22:09] <cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Training
[22:09] <MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Training
[22:09] <JoshuaRL> o/
[22:09] <Vantrax> go JoshuaRL
[22:09] <cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Education
[22:09] <MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Education
[22:09] <JoshuaRL> Ubuntu Community Learning
[22:10] <cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
[22:10] <MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
[22:10] <Vantrax> Other suggestions?
[22:11] <pleia2> I worry about "Community Training" because it's so similar to the official stuff, and in every instance the official canonical training folks will have the "training" name already
[22:12] <JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
[22:12] <Vantrax> Jono actually preferred that one because it was similar, but clearly community based and not official.
[22:12] <cprofitt> I prefer education myself... but learning is good.
[22:12] <tim_sharitt> IMO, something with education or learning is more inviting to casual users and new users
[22:12] <forestpixie> +1
[22:12] <cprofitt> I emailed Jono about the difference between Education and Training, but have not received a response yet
[22:13] <tim_sharitt> training sounds too formal
[22:13] <pleia2> Vantrax: well, thus far the canonical training folks have launchpad and mailing lists called "ubuntu training" or somesuch
[22:13] <cprofitt> yes, training sounds like something will be done to you...
[22:13] <cprofitt> and we plan on some self-paced learning
[22:13] <Vantrax> Personally I am partital to Education
[22:13] <pleia2> I like Education
[22:14] <cprofitt> does anyone want the differences as I laid them out?
[22:14] <tim_sharitt> +1 for education
[22:14] <pleia2> cprofitt: sure :)
[22:14] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: go ahead
[22:14] <cprofitt> ok...
[22:15] <cprofitt> the education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained
[22:15] <cprofitt> the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life
[22:15] <cprofitt> the first is training
[22:15] <cprofitt> the second is education
[22:16] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: got learning available?
[22:16] <cprofitt> not handy
[22:16] <cprofitt> but can look it up
[22:16] <cprofitt>  	the act or process of acquiring knowledge or skill.
[22:17] <JoshuaRL> knowledge acquired by systematic study in any field of scholarly application.
[22:17] <JoshuaRL> oops, missed yours  :)
[22:17] <cprofitt> I like Education because it can be self-paced or instructor lead
[22:17] <Vantrax> Im still partial to Education looking at the definitions, everyone happy with that, or would you like to vote?
[22:18] <forestpixie> we need to vote I think
[22:18] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Name - Ubuntu Community Education
[22:18] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Name - Ubuntu Community Education.
[22:18] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:18] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:18] <cprofitt> +1
[22:18] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:18] <Vantrax> +1
[22:18] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:18] <tim_sharitt> +1
[22:18] <MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:18] <pleia2> +1
[22:18] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:18] <forestpixie> 1
[22:18] <JoshuaRL> +1
[22:18] <MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:18] <forestpixie> +1
[22:18] <MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[22:19] <Vantrax> Any other votes?
[22:19] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:19] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[22:19] <cprofitt> [VOTE]Ubuntu Community Learning
[22:19] <MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Learning.
[22:19] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:19] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:19] <cprofitt> 0
[22:19] <cprofitt> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <Vantrax> 0
[22:19] <Vantrax> +0
[22:19] <JoshuaRL> -1
[22:19] <MootBot> -1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
[22:19] <forestpixie> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from forestpixie. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
[22:20] <tim_sharitt> +0
[22:20] <MootBot> Abstention received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
[22:20] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:20] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
[22:20] <cprofitt> [VOTE]Ubuntu Community Training
[22:20] <MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Training.
[22:20] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:20] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:20] <cprofitt> -1
[22:20] <MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[22:20] <tim_sharitt> -1
[22:20] <MootBot> -1 received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[22:20] <forestpixie> -1
[22:20] <MootBot> -1 received from forestpixie. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[22:20] <Vantrax> +0
[22:20] <MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
[22:20] <JoshuaRL> -1
[22:20] <MootBot> -1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
[22:21] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:21] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
[22:21]  * nhandler arrives
[22:21] <cprofitt> [AGREED]Ubuntu Community Education
[22:21] <MootBot> AGREED received: Ubuntu Community Education
[22:21] <cprofitt> We will need to review that with Canonical
[22:22] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Use of the Ubuntu name
[22:22] <MootBot> New Topic: Use of the Ubuntu name
[22:23] <Vantrax> As before, any use of the Ubuntu name has to be approved by the branding/copyright group. A formal request has been made and is expected to be approved based on support from the Official Ubuntu training team leaders, community manager, and sadbfl
[22:23] <Vantrax> Just a little status update on that side of things
[22:24] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Training/Education focus
[22:24] <MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
[22:24] <Vantrax> cprofitt: mind if we do Integrating with the community first?
[22:24] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Integrating with the community
[22:24] <MootBot> New Topic: Integrating with the community
[22:25] <Vantrax> This has been an area of consern in planning this project, many groups in the community are already doing training.
[22:26] <Vantrax> The plan is that a new launchpad team and mailing list will be created including the representatives for the training program (currently dubbed Ubuntu Community Education) to make it a new entity that is a collaberation of teams, not the property of existing teams (ie Its not a Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team or a Classroom project).
[22:26] <Vantrax> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions in regard to this side of things
[22:26] <nhandler> I would like to see a few different teams created
[22:26] <pleia2> what kinds of things would be discussed there that wouldn't be on existing lists?
[22:27] <nhandler> For instance, a team for people interested in forum education, motu education, wiki education, etc. You would then have a parent team which has these smaller teams as members
[22:27] <pleia2> I'd rather not see a bunch of half-dead lists be created for specific things when discussions on all of them could be useful for everyone involved
[22:27] <Vantrax> pleia2: the idea is more that there are not several lists
[22:27] <cprofitt> I just want to state that the focus is to augment existing training... not replace it. We want to increase the use of IRC #classroom and have more people become involved with MOTU, Documentation, etc...
[22:27] <Vantrax> nhandler: most of these teams have lists already that serve this function isnt it?
[22:28] <JoshuaRL> nhandler: that could easily be handled within each respective team, if they decide they need it
[22:28] <nhandler> Vantrax: There aren't specific teams/lists for the education element of these teams
[22:28] <Vantrax> The idea is to provide a better method for training to tie the community training together
[22:28] <pleia2> yeah, currently motu, bugs, etc discuss thing within their own teams, since everyone in their team can contribute
[22:28] <cprofitt> Vantrax, I would think that the other teams would be fine on their own internal lists still... but the new group would allow for a common list to be shared for the areas that cross
[22:28] <nhandler> For instance, we have a MOTU School, but no MOTU School list/team
[22:28] <Vantrax> nhandler: i see what you meen now
[22:28] <cprofitt> I would think those teams have internal issues that do not need to be discussed in the context of education
[22:29] <cprofitt> so the new group would provide a shared 'education' list
[22:29] <Vantrax> nhandler: I would tend to assume it would be up to each contributing area to decide if they need a group/mailing list for this
[22:29] <cprofitt> and only focus on the education piece for all included teams
[22:29] <pleia2> I don't think we want to insist upon groups having a "motu school team/list" the reason they discuss this on their main lists is because they want to, and it attracts attention from everyone in their teams instead of segregating it
[22:29] <JoshuaRL> Vantrax: +1.  this should just be a parent group
[22:29] <Vantrax> such as the Beginners Team has done with its Education Focus Group
[22:29] <cprofitt> pleia2, I agree...
[22:30] <cprofitt> I think vantrax's idea was to create one combined EDU list
[22:30] <nhandler> pleia2: I am not saying we need separate lists, I just think creating sub-teams of this new education team would be a good idea
[22:30] <JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
[22:30] <Vantrax> The idea of the list is that everyone has a central point for edu related info
[22:30] <cprofitt> so that teams could discuss education together in a combined place
[22:30] <pleia2> nhandler: I fail to use the usefulness
[22:30] <Vantrax> or to seek help on setting up a course on the moodle installation
[22:30] <nhandler> pleia2: Organization. You could see who is interested in certain types of lessons. You could then have different people in charge of coordinating those lessons
[22:31] <cprofitt> 0/
[22:31] <pleia2> nhandler: I think it adds complexity and requirements upon teams doing lessons
[22:31] <pleia2> I think we want to make it easy for them :)
[22:31] <cprofitt> pleia2, would you have education issues cross posted on the regular team lists?
[22:32] <pleia2> cprofitt: yeah, then more people see it and perhaps someone who didn't know about it could toss in their info, wider audiences are generally good
[22:32] <pleia2> putting education stuff in its own corner tends to cause things to die off
[22:32] <cprofitt> would it be good to have one 'uber' list plus cross posting? or just all cross posting?
[22:33] <cprofitt> I see two sides... keeping people involved and the 'logs' of the list... one 'education' list would make it easy to find education posts...
[22:33] <pleia2> uber list plus cross posting
[22:33] <cprofitt> cool... I think I like that idea...
[22:33] <nhandler> Having an uber list would also make it easy for people to contact the people in charge of the lessons
[22:33] <JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
[22:33] <cprofitt> Vantrax?
[22:33] <pleia2> like currently with classroom a couple of us are on main ubuntu lists, read planet and news, and when we see a lesson we post about it to -classroom, we encourage teams doing classes to publicise them with classroom, but they're cross posted elsewhere too
[22:34] <pleia2> nhandler: agreed
[22:34] <cprofitt> so do we need a new team or just a mailing list to accomplish that?
[22:34] <Vantrax> Im just thinking how easy is this going to be for a new user looking for information
[22:35] <forestpixie> probably easier than looking all over the place
[22:35] <nhandler> cprofitt: If you are making the list through Launchpad, you need a team
[22:35] <pleia2> Vantrax: me too, I fear that having too many subteams would be confusing (and if one is dead and the rest are busy? they get a false impression of the project if they join that dead one...)
[22:35] <cprofitt> Vantrax, I think the mix of Uber list and cross posting should solve the issue of finding things... but also pollinate the existing groups
[22:35] <Vantrax> I think we should have an LP team related to the organisational side of this, for people contributing materials or helping coordinate
[22:35] <cprofitt> k...
[22:35] <forestpixie> +1
[22:36] <forestpixie> although we could use the one we already have couldn't we
[22:36] <Vantrax> I think we should also have a mailing list for information on training, and sublist for each area that are crossposted
[22:36] <Vantrax> forestpixie: the idea is for another group not related to an existing group
[22:36] <pleia2> it's the sublist I have trouble with
[22:36] <nhandler> Vantrax: That is what my idea about the subteams was partially about
[22:37] <nhandler> However, I don't think the sublists are needed
[22:37] <Vantrax> ok, subteams but not sublists?
[22:37] <nhandler> Yes
[22:37] <pleia2> I don't think subteamsare needed either
[22:37] <nhandler> That would keep things organized
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> o/
[22:37] <nhandler> pleia2: Why? If I am only interested in doing a certain type of session, you don't think that matters
[22:37] <Vantrax> pleia2: I agree, but I can see the use on the organisational side
[22:37] <Vantrax> go Rocket2DMn
[22:37] <JoshuaRL> o/ 2
[22:37] <cprofitt> Rocket2DMn,
[22:37] <pleia2> nhandler: subteams are essentially already handled by the projects themselves, asking them to join these seems excessive
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> I've been following some of this discussion, it's become apparent that sublists definitely dont work, we saw this on the BT
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> re: Subteams, who would actually be ON the subteams?
[22:38] <cprofitt> +1 Rocket2DMn
[22:38] <Vantrax> Rocket2DMn: I think were past sublists
[22:38] <tim_sharitt> I don't think we need subteams/sublists right now unless we see that are actually needed in the future
[22:38] <pleia2> tim_sharitt: +1
[22:38] <cprofitt> Lets vote on this...
[22:38] <forestpixie> +1 tim_sharitt
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> a "subteam" is more of a reference to a completely other ubuntu team
[22:38] <JoshuaRL> i think that we should use one list, and one team.  if the traffic and the work gets exessive, then we can make them
[22:38] <Vantrax> Id leave it as an option if we expand too rapidly, but for the moment the scale is a little small
[22:38] <cprofitt> [VOTE]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
[22:38] <MootBot> Please vote on: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists.
[22:38] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:38] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:39] <cprofitt> +1
[22:39] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:39] <forestpixie> +1
[22:39] <MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:39] <tim_sharitt> +1
[22:39] <pleia2> +1
[22:39] <MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:39] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:39] <Vantrax> +1
[22:39] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:39] <JoshuaRL> +1
[22:39] <MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[22:40] <cprofitt> any more votes - Rocket2DMn
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> i wont vote on your stuff guys, just thought i'd provide some input.  thank you
[22:40] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:40] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[22:40] <cprofitt> [AGREED]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
[22:40] <MootBot> AGREED received: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
[22:40] <jpds> So, you lot don't want a list at lists.ubuntu.com?
[22:40] <Vantrax> Its likely that thats where the list will be made
[22:40] <pleia2> it would be nice to have ubuntu-education :)
[22:41] <cprofitt> +1 pleia2
[22:41] <JoshuaRL> +1
[22:41] <forestpixie> +1
[22:41] <cprofitt> next topic Vantrax ?
[22:41] <nhandler_> jpds: Doesn't the team need to be an official Ubuntu team to use lists.ubuntu.com
[22:41] <pleia2> and the ubuntu-classroom would simply be an aggregation of events in the #ubuntu-classroom channel
[22:41] <pleia2> list
[22:42] <jpds> pleia2: Someone beat you to it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
[22:42] <cprofitt> {TOPIC]Training/Education focus
[22:42] <MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
[22:42] <nhandler> jpds: Those darn edubuntu people ;)
[22:42] <pleia2> oh, edubuntu?
[22:42] <cprofitt> we can be ubuntu-community-education
[22:42] <jpds> nhandler: I'd have to check policy for non-LoCo mailing lists first.
[22:42] <Vantrax> we will work something out:P
[22:43] <nhandler> jpds: I'll talk with the brainstorm people. I know they recently moved from launchpad to lists.ubuntu.com
[22:43] <Vantrax> To start with its been suggest that we start with three basic streems of courses.
[22:43] <Vantrax> One aimed at new users to learn the basics of how Ubuntu works and how to work with your system.
[22:44] <Vantrax> a more sysadmin based stream to learn how to administrate Ubuntu system for business and educational environments.
[22:44] <Vantrax> lastly a contributor stream that focuses on learning how to contribute to the development of Ubuntu
[22:45] <Vantrax> New User Sample Course Ideas:
[22:45] <Vantrax> Learn about the terminal, how installing applications and repositories work, filling in a bug reports, modifying your desktop and theming, Root and Sudo, Partitioning and fstab, how to use IRC, how to use the Ubuntu Wiki, how to use Launchpad (Bugs and Answers), Linux file permissions, and the linux file system hiarchy.
[22:45] <cprofitt> I would like to suggest another stream - an Trainer stream -- a course to help people who want to be trainers
[22:45] <Vantrax> SysAdmin Sample Course Ideas:
[22:45] <Vantrax> Basic Security Practices, Apparmor and Iptables, Networked logins using pam modules, locking down the gnome desktop, mantaining large scale SOE deployments (cssh and rc.local), automating remote backups, and Ubuntu SOE development.
[22:45] <cprofitt> I think it is critical that we be able to 'grow' people as trainers
[22:45] <forestpixie> +1
[22:46] <Vantrax> Contributor Sample Course Ideas:
[22:46] <Vantrax> Python Programming, how to use bzr, how to build a package, Introduction to Kernel Compiling, Introduction to Compiling, How to Triage Bugs, introduction to Launchpad Translations,
[22:46] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: that would be covered in the contributor stream right?
[22:46] <cprofitt> perhaps, but not by what Vantrax just posted...
[22:46] <Vantrax> Now there are also options for a security stream looked at as well focusing more on  advanced security practices, encryption, intrustion detection, and penetration testing (nubuntu style). This however is out of scope initially due to its complex nature.
[22:46] <nhandler> Vantrax: Have you talked with james_w yet? He is currently the Dean of the MOTU School
[22:47] <Vantrax> not yet, hence why I was askin you if anyone else from MOTU should be here:P
[22:47] <cprofitt> Vantrax, pleia2 what are your thoughts on developing the instructors?
[22:47]  * nhandler doesn't remember being asked that
[22:47] <Vantrax> As said, these are just samples for discussion to get an idea
[22:47] <pleia2> cprofitt: no comments, good idea
[22:47] <nhandler> cprofitt: I think those types of sessions would be great to give, especially before an Open Week or Dev Week
[22:47] <Vantrax> cprofitt: good idea
[22:48] <cprofitt> I just can not see us growing the offerings unless we ensure people are ready to be instructors
[22:48] <cprofitt> so it seems to be central to the success of the project
[22:48] <Vantrax> I would defineately agree
[22:49] <Vantrax> gah, horrible spelling
[22:49] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: but maybe it could be in the contributor stream.  stickeyed, so to speak, but it makes sense for it to be there.
[22:49] <cprofitt> I do not think this needs a vote... we need to flesh that out and work with the stakeholders
[22:49] <Vantrax> JoshuaRL: I would think that would be the right spot to put it
[22:49] <cprofitt> which I believe brings us to our next topic
[22:49] <Vantrax> thats the next bit:P
[22:49] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Identifying Stakeholders
[22:49] <MootBot> New Topic: Identifying Stakeholders
[22:50] <Vantrax> So now that we have an idea who we are looking at, who are our stakeholders for this project?
[22:50] <nhandler> I would definitely try and get james_w involved
[22:51] <Vantrax> I would guess were looking at MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, New Users Network
[22:51] <JoshuaRL> Rocket2DMn: documentation team should be included, right?
[22:51] <Vantrax> I dont think NUN is active..
[22:51] <pleia2> NUN is dead
[22:51] <nhandler> Vantrax: It isn't last I checked
[22:52] <cprofitt> MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation -- those are the right groups?
[22:53] <JoshuaRL> sounds good cprofitt
[22:53] <Vantrax> also if anyone can supply contact leads for the education programs that would be good:P
[22:53] <Vantrax> I have about half of them
[22:53] <nhandler> Who do you need Vantrax ?
[22:53] <cprofitt> [VOTE]Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
[22:53] <MootBot> Please vote on: Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation.
[22:53] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:53] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:53] <Vantrax> i have motu now, but email would be nice
[22:53] <cprofitt> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:53] <JoshuaRL> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:53] <pleia2> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:53] <Vantrax> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:53] <nhandler> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:53] <forestpixie> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[22:53] <tim_sharitt> +1
[22:53] <MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[22:54] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:54] <MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
[22:54] <cprofitt> [AGREED]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
[22:54] <MootBot> AGREED received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
[22:54] <cprofitt> [ACTION]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
[22:54] <MootBot> ACTION received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
[22:54] <JoshuaRL> Vantrax: matthew east (mdke) mdke@ubuntu.com for Doc team
[22:54] <JoshuaRL> or cprofitt  :)
[22:55] <nhandler> james_w for MOTU, probably bdmurray for Bug Squad
[22:55] <Vantrax> Rocket2DMn: who runs the bugsquad training?
[22:56] <nhandler> Vantrax: They don't really have an active training program afaik. But bdmurray is in charge of the team
[22:56] <Vantrax> okies, they have alot of material that ive seen
[22:57] <pleia2> yeah, they do regular bug days that include training
[22:57] <pleia2> but it's not that specific
[22:57] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Developing Online Courseware
[22:57] <MootBot> New Topic: Developing Online Courseware
[22:57] <nhandler> pleia2: The bug days aren't really training sessions
[22:57] <Vantrax> we should make it a little more, even if it is just on the moodle and not in IRC
[22:57] <cprofitt> Vantrax tells me that this topic is my ball...
[22:57] <pleia2> nhandler: right, but if people ask for help on how to get started they get help
[22:57] <pleia2> which is why I say it's not that specific :)
[22:58] <Vantrax> need to make it a little easier, and a little more specific:P
[22:58] <cprofitt> When it comes to Moodle there are two types of on-line courses that I am familiar with
[22:58] <cprofitt> instructor lead and self-paced
[22:58] <pleia2> Vantrax: I dunno, I think we need to ask them how things are going and offer help if they want it ;)
[22:58] <Vantrax> yep, thats all im planning on with anyone
[22:59] <cprofitt> Instructor lead is a course that will make use of wiki material, activities in moodle, forum posts and IRC sessions
[22:59] <cprofitt> self-paced would involve moodle activites and wiki information that people would walk through themselve
[23:00] <Vantrax> Over time I would guess those resources would probably all end up in moodle (aside from forum posts and active IRC sessions)
[23:00] <cprofitt> on their own
[23:00] <cprofitt> Vantrax, I see no reason to duplicate the material that is naturally going to be in the wiki
[23:00] <cprofitt> inside of Moodle
[23:00] <cprofitt> create activities, etc for it sure...
[23:00] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: self paced would probably be a re-tooling of the instructor led info, right?
[23:00] <pleia2> Vantrax: perhaps, but I think we should always be mindful of accessibility, it would be ashame to insist upon everything being in moodle and then lose that resource at some point
[23:00] <cprofitt> but the base information should likely stay in the wiki
[23:01] <pleia2> that happened to Classroom, Classroom summaries were put on a blog, which disappeared :(
[23:01] <Vantrax> I tend to think that training and information are presented very differently
[23:01] <cprofitt> Vantrax, yes, but in a great many courses they use text books written by others
[23:01] <cprofitt> and the instructor guides people through the material...
[23:01] <Vantrax> No argument there:P
[23:02] <cprofitt> gives them activities to ensure they learn the knowledge and can apply it
[23:02] <Vantrax> More thinking for the self paced courses where it is not instructor led
[23:02] <cprofitt> for me the wiki is the text book
[23:02] <cprofitt> with self-paced the material can link to the wiki
[23:02] <cprofitt> and then give them exercises
[23:02] <cprofitt> internal to Moodle
[23:02] <cprofitt> I think the idea will have to be massaged as we move forward with it...
[23:03] <Vantrax> as with everything:P
[23:03] <cprofitt> but as we are not building the entire core of knowledge from the ground up we have to respect the normal location of this knowledge
[23:03] <Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
[23:03] <cprofitt> curious on pleia2 and nhandler and Rocket2DMn - thoughts
[23:04] <cprofitt> JoshuaRL, ?
[23:04] <pleia2> I'm good
[23:04] <nhandler> cprofitt: Who is going to be in charge of keeping the online stuff up-to-date?
[23:04] <forestpixie> that sounds right to me cprofitt
[23:05] <JoshuaRL> i like the idea of using existing info for the instructor led courses
[23:05] <cprofitt> nhandler, I would assume that the wiki would fall to any of the people who would normally do that...
[23:05] <tim_sharitt> sounds good cprofitt :)
[23:05] <Vantrax> nhandler: the stuff in moodle or wiki or?
[23:05] <JoshuaRL> the less duplication, the better.
[23:05] <cprofitt> and that instructors teaching that course would bear soem of that burden too
[23:05] <cprofitt> the Moodle course would be maintained just by the instructors
[23:05] <cprofitt> does that sound good nhandler ?
[23:06] <nhandler> It sounds good, we'll see if it works
[23:06] <cprofitt> k
[23:06] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Project Milestones
[23:06] <MootBot> New Topic: Project Milestones
[23:06] <cprofitt> back to you Vantrax
[23:06] <Vantrax> This is pretty simple and quick
[23:07] <Vantrax> Just a little breakdown of how things should go forward from here (pick it apart)
[23:07] <Vantrax> The information discussed here will form a project plan with the scope and aim
[23:08] <Vantrax> that will be posted to planet, and mailed to everyone
[23:08] <Vantrax> Then we get the initial deployment of moodle started and get the theme done
[23:08] <Vantrax> We need to create content guidelines (presentation standards and layout)
[23:08] <Vantrax> then moderator groups based on contributing areas
[23:09] <Vantrax> we need to get sample courses delivered in moodle using the standards, preferably getting the entire new user stream ready as a priority
[23:09] <Vantrax> Announcement to community and a call for more topics that people want covered
[23:10] <cprofitt> yes, and that sample can be a course on how to use Moodle as an instructor
[23:10] <Vantrax> more course development based on feedback with at least one streem complete
[23:10] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: nice idea
[23:10] <Vantrax> the of course an official launch
[23:10] <Vantrax> ^then
[23:10] <JoshuaRL> Vantrax: yeah, the new user stream should definitely be a high priority
[23:11] <cprofitt> Moodle also allows for you to use an existing course as a template... so we should plan on using that feature as well
[23:11] <nhandler> cprofitt: Does Moodle support OpenID?
[23:11] <Vantrax> nhandler: it does
[23:11] <cprofitt> nhandler, I believe we are working on that...
[23:11] <cprofitt> not sure if we have the config done on it though
[23:11] <cprofitt> bodhi is the man with the plan there
[23:11] <Vantrax> nope, bodhi will be working on it
[23:12] <nhandler> We could maybe use that along with the Launchpad API to grant certain privileges on Moodle to members of certain teams
[23:12] <cprofitt> Yes..
[23:12] <Vantrax> nhandler: that would be a good idea
[23:12] <cprofitt> we will have to have admins, instructors and students
[23:12] <cprofitt> the instructor lead classes will need periods in which the course can be registered for
[23:13] <Vantrax> also probably a moderators for a stream
[23:13] <cprofitt> self-paced can be 100% open
[23:13] <cprofitt> last topic Vantrax ?
[23:13] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]Session feedback mechanism
[23:13] <MootBot> New Topic: Session feedback mechanism
[23:14] <Vantrax> forestpixie asked about this
[23:14] <forestpixie> Bodhi wanted us to look into having some sort of feedback mechanism that users can access after sessions have run - the idea at the moment being a simple poll thread on the forum. He's talking to admin (at some point) about where we should do so - but does anyone have an problem with doing it that way or any other ideas.
[23:14] <Vantrax> that would be my idea
[23:14] <nhandler> If we are creating an LP team, we could also put the poll on LP
[23:14] <cprofitt> I agree we will want some form of feedback...
[23:14] <Vantrax> have a are of the forum related to questions and feedback on a specific session
[23:14] <Vantrax> have an area
[23:14] <forestpixie> nhandler: we were looking at new threads/pols for each session that runs
[23:14] <nhandler> Or we could also put feedback on the wiki below the IRC logs
[23:15] <cprofitt> I think we need to be cautious what we ask though... and how the information is processed
[23:15] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: theres whole degrees in that sentence
[23:15] <forestpixie> +1 - just  a simple 1-5 poll and then if people wish to post in thread they can
[23:15] <cprofitt> JoshuaRL, yes there are
[23:15] <Vantrax> in principle I agree with the idea forestpixie but it will need to be dug into a bit
[23:16] <pleia2> nhandler: I like that, or failing that we use one of these other ideas and then link to the logs page so it's all accessible from one spot at least
[23:16] <cprofitt> forestpixie, I think we can work on the content (questions) at a later time...
[23:16] <pleia2> some people have trouble with editing wikis
[23:16] <forestpixie> pleia2: +1
[23:16] <nhandler> Because in my opinion, the comments are much more valuable than the actual rating
[23:16] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: i have a friend thats a marketing major, i could ask him for suggestions
[23:16] <cprofitt> We could even use forums for it if we wanted a more simple place for editing
[23:16] <forestpixie> sounds good JoshuaRL
[23:16] <cprofitt> that would expose the courses in another place as well
[23:17] <forestpixie> that is bodhi's thought cprofitt
[23:17] <cprofitt> JoshuaRL, it is less marketing...
[23:17] <cprofitt> and more getting useful constructive information
[23:17] <JoshuaRL> cprofitt: but it IS marketing, from the feedback idea.  thats a big part of marketing.
[23:17] <cprofitt> no axe grinding, etc
[23:17] <cprofitt> any other ideas that anyone else has?
[23:18]  * cprofitt motions to close the meeting
[23:18] <forestpixie> above all it needs to be simple or people won't bother
[23:18] <Vantrax> So the project info we discussed here will be written up then mailed out and I will post it to planet
[23:18] <tim_sharitt> +1 cprofitt
[23:18] <nhandler> Vantrax: Are the logs/minutes going to be on the wiki as well?
[23:18] <forestpixie> I'll put the log on the FG wiki in a minute
[23:18] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[23:18] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:18.
[23:19] <Vantrax> not too bad
[23:19] <JoshuaRL> thanks Vantrax cprofitt pleia2
[23:19] <Vantrax> ran faster than I thought:P
[23:19] <forestpixie> thanks all
[23:19] <nhandler> forestpixie: You can take the logs from MootBot
[23:19] <cprofitt> thanks for coming everyone!!!
[23:19] <cprofitt> I appreciated it.
[23:19] <forestpixie> nhandler: how
[23:19] <pleia2> thanks guys :)
[23:19] <cprofitt> I am gathering the mootbot logs now
[23:19] <cprofitt> and will put them on our meeting page
[23:19] <nhandler> :)
[23:20] <Vantrax> thanks for comining people
[23:20] <forestpixie> cool saves me then cprofitt
[23:20] <Vantrax> ill have an email out with the info and an action plan later in the week
[23:34] <cprofitt> anyone know how long Mootbot takes to update the page with the logs?
[23:34] <SiDi> our page has been updated quite fast
[23:34] <SiDi> did you #endmeeting ?
[23:35] <SiDi> (yes, you did, sorry :p)
[23:35] <SiDi> cprofitt, you might want to ask knome if there's anything particular to do
[23:36] <cprofitt> knome, how do I get the logs from my meeting?
[23:36] <cprofitt> thanks SiDi
[23:36] <SiDi> cprofitt, you're welcome
[23:37] <cprofitt> SiDi, I am beginning to think it did not make the logs...
[23:37] <cprofitt> the last line was - MootBot> Logs available at http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/
[23:37] <cprofitt> and that does not look like the result they show on the wiki
[23:38] <SiDi> Erm..
[23:38] <SiDi> i never used that bot honnestly
[23:39] <SiDi> i hope this isnt somethinng you forgot to do before the meeting :/
[23:39] <cprofitt> have you used a different one?
[23:39] <cprofitt> I hope not as well...
[23:39] <cprofitt> nothing appears to be listed on the wiki
[23:39] <SiDi> nope. i just know that knome used it and we have our logs ;)