[00:11] <nixternal> ryanakca: groovy, I will work on attacking it for you as i doubt I will get any time tonight...translations suck!
[00:20] <ryanakca> nixternal: splendid. Have you poked the sysadmins yet?
[00:30] <Riddell> ooh la la
[00:30] <Riddell> I think I've solved the translation problems
[00:30] <JontheEchidna> out of curiosity, what was the issue/fix?
[00:31] <davmor2> one stick of dynamite and a bucket of glue
[00:31] <Riddell> well, this may shock you, but the patch I wrote in a hurry was imperfect
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[00:32] <Riddell> I know, it's hard to believe, I am fallable
[00:32] <davmor2> NNNooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[00:32] <torkiano> hello all, can kubuntu developer take a look at bug #361408
[00:32] <torkiano> ?
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> Fallibility? In *our* Kubuntu robot?
[00:32] <torkiano> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-6/+bug/361408
[00:33] <Riddell> torkiano: maybe openjdk recommends it for a reason?
[00:34] <dtchen> please note that pulseaudio is also on the kubuntu discs
[00:34] <Riddell> it is?
[00:35] <dtchen> i'm a bit leery of that, because i'm going to get a crackton of useless bug reports
[00:36] <davmor2> Riddell: does that mean another kubuntu respin
[00:36] <dtchen> they're definitely on the alternate
[00:37] <torkiano> ups sorry, I thought that kubuntu doesn't use pulseadio by default
[00:37] <dtchen> they don't appear to be on the daily-live
[00:37] <dtchen> torkiano: it doesn't
[00:37] <dtchen> phonon pulls in libpulse0 indirectly
[00:37] <dtchen> both the dvd and the alternate images have pulseaudio debs
[00:39] <Riddell> davmor2: yes I think so
[00:40] <davmor2> get  it in quick then I want a clean slate in the morning and no more respins today has been a waste :)
[00:40] <Riddell> cdimage is
[00:40] <Riddell> cdimage is slow
[00:40] <Riddell> or is my ISP being useless?
[00:41] <davmor2> Riddell: bit of both
[00:42] <torkiano> dtchen: if kubuntu doesn't use pulseadio, I think that should be possible to install java plugin or openoffice without install pulseadio
[00:45]  * Riddell spots usb-creator on the CDs bringing in a load of gnome 
[00:45] <dtchen> torkiano: utterly agreed
[00:51] <Riddell> nixternal: got an ETA?
[00:55] <JontheEchidna> bug 358904
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> ^bug about usb-creator
[01:24] <ScottK> Fixed
[01:32]  * Riddell pokes nixternal 
[01:33]  * ScottK hands Riddell a bat.
[01:33] <nixternal> still working on it...the rosetta tarballs are horrible
[02:02] <Riddell> Quintasan: hmm, semantik failed to compile
[02:02] <Riddell> maybe it's missing a build dep
[02:26] <ScottK> Riddell: Does 4:4.2.2-0ubuntu5 fully resolve 355814?  It's marked open against several other packages.  I'll fix up the bug if no more needs doing.
[02:55] <e-jat> Riddell, http://yfrog.com/6tkonversationkde4p
[02:55] <e-jat> show i inform to tonio ?
[03:04] <yuriy> oops sorry, forgot about the meeting
[03:09] <shtylman> e-jat: is there a jaunty package?
[03:11] <e-jat> ppa on tonio
[03:11] <e-jat> but just now ive try it .. but now .. trying to compile from svn
[03:12] <shtylman> gotcha
[03:18] <e-jat> anyone here got konversation kde4 work .. i just compile it .. it not working well .. :(
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, it's working fine here
[03:19] <e-jat> i take it from svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/branches/work/konvi-kde4 konversation
[03:19] <tsimpson> did you install it?
[03:20] <e-jat> yeap
[03:20] <tsimpson> what do you mean by "not working well"?
[03:21] <tsimpson> bearing in mind that it's still in development and not "supposed" to work yet
[03:21] <e-jat> i uploading the screenshot ..
[03:23] <e-jat> arrrghhh
[03:23] <e-jat> sorry ...
[03:23] <e-jat> my bad ...
[03:25] <e-jat> guys . sorry .. my mistake ..
[03:25] <e-jat> yeah its working ..
[03:25] <tsimpson> as long as it works
[03:26]  * e-jat maybe not enough sleep make me clumsy a little bit in da morning .. :(
[03:26] <e-jat> yeah it works ..
[03:43] <e-jat> is kitchensync still in heavy developement?
[03:44] <JontheEchidna> I believe the latest word was that it was in development, but wouldn't be ready for KDE 4.2
[03:44] <JontheEchidna> I don't know how things have progressed since then
[03:44] <e-jat> ok thanks ..
[04:44] <NCommander> ScottK, I'm looking at amarok on ARM
[04:44] <ScottK> NCommander: Cool.
[04:44] <NCommander> ScottK, I also tested KDE4 on real hardware on ARM; seems to work ok-ish
[04:44] <NCommander> (no OpenGL on my test hardware, so it ran like a dog)
[04:44] <ScottK> Great.
[04:45] <ScottK> Runs like a dog on Intel too unless you tweak xorg.
[04:45] <NCommander> to turn on UXA or?
[04:45] <ScottK> The greedy thing
[04:45] <NCommander> link?
[04:45] <NCommander> I can't get accelaration running in Intel-video mode on my laptop, if you know a fix beside UXA ...
[04:45] <NCommander> And most of the patches have now been merged in Debian (pusling grabbed me and added me to pkg-kde, and merged those patches I added  into KDE upstream so it should remain fixed.
[04:46] <NCommander> ^- ScottK
[04:46] <ScottK> Bug #359600
[04:46] <ScottK> It's not suitable for a default because it's also crashy for some people, but working great for me.
[04:46] <NCommander> LP is lagging out for me
[04:46] <ScottK> Almost as fast a UXA, no rendering problems (like UXA), and it doesn't fall over a couple of times per day.
[04:47] <ScottK> Worse than normal?
[04:47] <NCommander> timed out
[04:47] <NCommander> Hasn't done that since intrepid-release
[04:48] <NCommander> THere it goes
[04:48] <ScottK> It's been doing that recently.
[04:49] <NCommander> I hadn't noticed, but most of today was making my life easier by merging patches upstream
[05:14] <rgreening> ScottK: xorg 1.6.1 is out...
[05:14] <rgreening> maybe we need to look at some update
[05:14] <ScottK> Well now that I've got the greedy thing going, it's not so bad.
[05:15] <ScottK> But I think it's the Intel bit we need fixed.
[05:17] <apachelogger> jefferai: the l10n component will always use the macros from kdelibs
[05:17] <apachelogger> everything else is a PITA
[05:18] <apachelogger> jefferai: just add the appropriate files to the cmake tree
[05:18] <apachelogger> script gen is failing due to phonon
[05:18] <apachelogger> no clue nor motivation to fiddle with that now
[05:19] <apachelogger> not to mention time :P
[05:19] <apachelogger> => work
[05:22] <NCommander> Why is amarok not up to date in bzr?
[05:22] <ScottK> Someone forgot to do it?
[05:23] <ScottK> Feel free.
[05:42] <nixternal> ScottK: oh man, rosetta is awesome...better than the best beer!
[05:43] <a|wen_> nixternal: are you sure you are not drinking while working with rosetta :P
[05:44] <nixternal> I feel like it
[05:44]  * nixternal makes a note to create a brand new build system for documentation in karmic
[05:45] <ScottK> nixternal: Something using cmake, of course.
[05:46] <nixternal> most definitely
[06:11] <seaLne> kb9vqf: the downloaded failed during the night but i have restarted it
[07:00] <Sput> ScottK: considering that intel drivers have vastly improved recently (with bleeding edge stuff), chances are that there will be releases with working accel in time for komatose kaviar :)
[07:00] <Sput> I have no problems whatsoever with intel now
[07:05] <a|wen_> Sput: i suspect all the fuss is only because intel using people is used to progress all the time :P ... not like with ati, where it for a long time was a constant gamble upgrading
[07:06] <Sput> a|wen_: well, there was a huge regression in intel drivers from 2.4 to 2.5 around december
[07:06] <Sput> and afaik jaunty hit it perfectly, because the current versions are too bleeding edge and 2.4 is too old
[07:07] <Sput> I'm just giving you people stuck in biyearly distro releases hope that the drivers are, indeed, improving quickly, and that my KDE4 desktop with desktop effects by now feels much faster than it ever felt with intel 2.4 and no effects
[07:08] <a|wen_> Sput: exactly ... and i think jaunty is the first time it feels like a setback to many
[07:08] <Sput> yeah that could be
[07:08] <Sput> but it boots fast, I'm told :)
[07:09]  * a|wen_ uses radeon; so i'm used to it being a gamble
[07:09] <Sput> ah yes. KDE4 has started to activate desktop effects with the opensource radeon driver a couple weeks ago
[07:10] <Sput> and with xvideo accel, I can watch fullhd movies and DVDs without tear and in much better quality than with fglrx, and even significantly higher quality than on windows :)
[07:11] <a|wen_> EXA is totally broken with my card using the open source driver ... has to use XAA which is actually not supported at all on my card
[07:11]  * Sput uses EXA
[07:11] <Sput> radeon, not radeonhd
[07:11] <Sput> on a r700
[07:12] <a|wen_> Mobility Radeon X300 ... so radeonhd is not even remotely possible with that old a card
[07:13] <a|wen_> but works nicely enough with XAA and xrender effects ... just has some vt-switching issues in some cases (locks up so even magic sysrq. doesn't work :/ )
[07:22] <seaLne> is kubuntu using pulseaudio in jaunty? or just ubuntu?
[07:24] <a|wen_> seaLne: afaik it is not installed as default ... but if pulseaudio is installed kde should be able to use it
[07:26] <seaLne> a|wen_: ok that matches what i'm seeing on my system, just wanted to confirm that was correct after all the general bitching about pulseaudio
[07:28] <a|wen_> seaLne: a lot of stuff tries to pull in pulseaudio ... and pulseaudio really seems to mess things up badly for many people
[07:32] <a|wen_> and openjdk has started recommending pulseaudio :/
[08:07] <seaLne> kb9vqf: http://www.geeksoc.org/~kd/kde3/kubuntu-9.04-beta-kde3-desktop-i386.iso finished mirroring finally
[08:08] <kb9vqf> seaLne: good!  I have updated the link on my download page accordingly
[08:08] <seaLne> well actually about 30min ago but i wasn't paying attention
[08:08] <kb9vqf> seaLne: you'll probably have a hefty surge in traffic sometime tomorrow ;)
[08:09] <seaLne> tommorow utc?
[08:09] <kb9vqf> seaLne: no, I meant tomorrow my time
[08:10]  * kb9vqf forgets people exists outside of Illinois
[08:10] <kb9vqf> :)
[08:10] <seaLne> stupid timezones :)
[08:10] <seaLne> are you about 0200 just now?
[08:11] <kb9vqf> Yes
[08:11]  * kb9vqf should really get to bed
[08:11] <kb9vqf> What are you at?  I forget what Europe's offset it
[08:11] <kb9vqf> is
[08:11] <seaLne> 08:10 in uk
[08:12] <kb9vqf> That's about when I have to wake up in the morning here.  Yuck.
[08:12] <kb9vqf> Actually, a bit earlier
[08:13] <seaLne> couldn't sleep so i've been up a few hours already
[08:13]  * kb9vqf wonders why everyone's comments are so hostile towards KDE3
[08:13] <kb9vqf> And yet, there are 500+ people who downloaded the CDs
[08:14] <seaLne> i guess a reaction to all the hostile coments about kde4? ;)
[08:14] <kb9vqf> :)
[08:15] <kb9vqf> I'm holding out for LCARS on a huge multitouch screen :-)
[08:16]  * kb9vqf yawns and goes to sleep
[08:28]  * freinhard yawns and gets up
[08:45] <nixternal> Riddell: sorry it took so long, the translations were a mess...fixing up the Makefile now and the debian/ files...would it still be OK to upload?
[09:32] <nixternal> Riddell: I went ahead and uploaded -- I think there might need to be some fixes to css stuff for translations, but won't know more until people test...translations are^Wwere a mess
[09:33]  * nixternal goes to bed now...have to wake up in 3 hours :(
[09:38] <slangasek> nixternal, Riddell: uploading is fine, but there's no margin for respinning all of the kubuntu images at this point for RC; so that will have to go in after the RC unless something else critical comes along
[10:26] <Riddell> just incase you didn't get that, test ISOs!
[10:38] <m4v> dolphin doesn't work if you open it as root with "kdesudo dolphin", i'm missing something or it's a bug?
[10:40] <davmor2> Riddell: I am :P
[10:51] <seaLne> kb9vqf: 64bit downloaded, can you confirm that the md5sums on the website are right? i have e1863de3d16c48964bb32809586cf43b  kubuntu-9.04-beta-kde3-desktop-i386.iso the other matches
[11:39] <Tonio_> hi there
[12:12] <quassel208> 8 days? and regressions are still there
[12:12] <quassel208> Ive bugged it yesterday
[12:17] <quassel208> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/361291  please have A look at it
[12:18] <quassel208> I included screenshots
[12:22] <Xand3r> hey ho, i love all kubuntu and linux devels
[12:23] <Xand3r> the rt61 chip from my sister works on kubuntu better than on windows!
[12:23] <Xand3r> i love you all
[12:24] <quassel208> #kubuntu-offtopic
[12:39]  * a|wen_ hugs Xand3r and wonders what exactly rt61 is
[12:40] <a|wen_> quassel208: are you using an intel or ati graphics card?
[12:40] <Xand3r> a|wen_: rt61 is the chipset of a ralink wlan card
[12:40] <quassel208> Intel 950
[12:41] <quassel208> Intel was in old the best on linux, When i runned kubuntu on 7.10 and 7.04 everthing runned perfect
[12:43] <a|wen_> Xand3r: ahh ... the wifi-stuff has really improved in the last few kernel releases; much less need for madwifi and co.
[12:44] <Xand3r> oh jea wpa-psk is no problem i realy like it if it works out of the box
[12:44] <quassel208> You know, aero and whats in Osx run flawless on this Atom 330 machine
[12:47] <a|wen_> quassel208: it's the intel painting problems you are seing... you can see some more information and also possible workarounds in bug 338669
[12:48] <quassel208> oh great, so I was right it is caused also by qt 4.5 ?
[12:50] <a|wen_> quassel208: nobody really knows ... intel blames QT, QT blames intel
[12:50] <quassel208> And I blame Kubuntu
[12:50] <Riddell> shtylman: know anything about this?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com:80/151367/
[12:50] <Riddell> when running OEM mode
[12:50] <quassel208> downgrading Qt would have resolved it ?
[12:52] <quassel208> http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/151370/  this is my xorg
[12:52] <a|wen_> quassel208: it's possible (but that has other drawbacks); using an old intel driver might also have solved it (but that has a lot of other drawbacks as well)
[12:53] <Riddell> davmor2: when was the last time you tried OEM on kubuntu live?
[12:53] <davmor2> Riddell: yesterday
[12:53] <quassel208> Lol, You know I say much about Windows, but I never saw a regression there, either did I in iPC 10.5.6
[12:53] <Riddell> davmor2: and ubiquity started fine?
[12:53] <quassel208> but maby you canm help? I never really though my xorg
[12:54] <davmor2> yes but I got a glitch after end user setup
[12:54] <davmor2> Riddell: ^
[12:54] <Riddell> mm, but I'm getting a crash before ubiquity even starts :(
[12:54] <davmor2> Riddell: give me 10 minutes I'll run it
[12:55] <a|wen_> quassel208: adding Option "AccelMethod" "UXA" or Option "AccelMethod" "XXA" is possible workarounds ... see the last comment on the bug to see where to add it to xorg.conf
[12:55] <Riddell> davmor2: evan has confirmed it (and fixed)
[12:56] <quassel208> If they found workarounds? Why dont they get in the updates ?
[12:58] <quassel208> Do i need Option "Tiling" "No" to in it? I copyed the part in the last comment
[12:58] <a|wen_> quassel208: try just adding the UXA-line
[12:58] <quassel208> only the uxa line? so not the rest?
[12:59] <a|wen_> yes, just try adding the UXA line
[12:59] <a|wen_> quassel208: the workarounds are workarounds, which means they don't work for all people; and for some people kde won't even start if you try them
[12:59] <quassel208> Yeah that would be truth, but used jaunty exa default ?
[13:00] <quassel208> Do I need to restart my computer to renew x?
[13:01] <a|wen_> quassel208: EXA is default for intel on jaunty yes
[13:01] <quassel208> ctrl alt backspace doesnt work, because someone in Ubuntu decided to disable it
[13:01] <a|wen_> quassel208: you need to restart X ... log out and restart kdm
[13:02] <quassel208> ctrl alt backspace would do that normal?
[13:02] <a|wen_> quassel208: and you can enable ctrl-alt-backspace killing X under display in systemsettings
[13:02] <a|wen_> that kills X, yes
[13:04] <quassel208> killing x? dont in need to do that in system monitor ?
[13:05] <a|wen_> quassel208: ctrl-alt-backspace will kill X if you enable it in system settings
[13:05] <a|wen_> quassel208: logging out and restarting kdm also works
[13:05] <a|wen_> or finally you can just restart the computer
[13:05] <quassel208> lol thats also a option
[13:11] <quassel208> lets hope this solves it
[13:15] <quassel208> Magic lamp is something I asked for XD
[13:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: little question about hardy.... I noticed that with security enabled, we get a 3.5.10 kdelibs and 3.5.9 kdebase.... isn't that a problem ?
[13:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's needed for a kdepim security issue as I mind.  it's not a problem
[13:22] <davmor2> Riddell: can you subscribe me to the oem bug please
[13:23] <quassel208> If i choose exterme slow desktop effects, then they work flawless
[13:26] <a|wen_> quassel208: but the glitches is gone?
[13:30] <jussi01> ok, who here has netbooks?
[13:30] <jussi01> do I need lpia or normal 32bit...??
[13:30] <jussi01> (for atom processors...)
[13:30] <rgreening> me
[13:30] <rgreening> jussi01: I have A110
[13:31] <rgreening> Works with Kubuntu x386 and lpia alt image
[13:31] <jussi01> rgreening: ok. Ive just bought a LG x110... with atom 270... recommended?
[13:31] <rgreening> jussi01: I currently use the lpia alt image
[13:32] <rgreening> either will work, but it would be better for extending battery time to use the lpia
[13:32] <rgreening> I would expect
[13:32] <jussi01> rgreening: where are the lpia images? I cant see the jaunty ones here on cdimage.ubuntu.com
[13:32] <rgreening> 1 sec...
[13:33] <rgreening> jussi01: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/ports
[13:34] <jussi01> ahh...
[13:34] <rgreening> jussi01: look under daily... looks like the beta wasnt built
[13:35] <jussi01> rgreening: how did you install it?
[13:35] <quassel208> Yes I think they are gone, but cant say for sure
[13:36] <rgreening> jussi01: do you have an external cdrom drive?
[13:36] <jussi01> nope
[13:36] <rgreening> ok, how about an existing working ubuntu install?
[13:37] <quassel208> slowing the effects makes them look better
[13:38] <rgreening> jussi01: if you have a ubuntu install to work from another system, download the iso, install usb-creator and run usb-creator. It can install the iso to a thrumb drive and then you can boot from the thumb drive and install from there.
[13:38] <jussi01> rgreening: Im on kubuntu now, on my 64bit destop
[13:38] <rgreening> if you only have a windows box, try unetbootin (as a last resort)
[13:38] <rgreening> ok, then install usb-creator
[13:39] <rgreening> stick in a 1GB or better stick
[13:39] <rgreening> and you should be good
[13:39] <jussi01> :)
[13:40] <jussi01> curious, not really an issue, but installing usbcreator gives this: INFO: using unknown version '/usr/bin/python3.0' (debian_defaults not up-to-date?)
[13:42] <rgreening> dunno.
[13:43] <jussi01> image almost downloaded :)
[13:43]  * jussi01 hugs his 10/10 connection
[13:43] <rgreening> cool. jussi01: only issue I had was dhcp never worked when trying to autodetect. Let me know if you have the same issue. It's ok after that and on reboot.
[13:44] <rgreening> only during install the dhcp detect failed.
[13:44] <rgreening> so it could be my issue....
[13:45] <jussi01> rgreening: lets see...
[13:45] <jussi01> oh yummy
[13:45] <jussi01> usb-creator segfaults
[13:46] <jussi01> jussi@galaxy:~$ usb-creator
[13:46] <jussi01> Traceback (most recent call last):
[13:46] <jussi01>   File "/usr/bin/usb-creator", line 21, in <module>
[13:46] <jussi01>     from usbcreator.gtk_frontend import GtkFrontend
[13:46] <jussi01>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/usbcreator/gtk_frontend.py", line 25, in <module>
[13:46] <jussi01>     import gnomevfs
[13:46] <jussi01> ImportError: No module named gnomevfs
[13:46] <jussi01> crap
[13:46] <jussi01> sorry about that paste...
[13:46] <jussi01> :/
[13:49] <jussi01> Hrm, I have libgnomevfs2-0 installed ...
[13:50] <Riddell> you'll need the python module for gnomevfs
[13:50] <Riddell> file a bug on usb creator and tell it to get its dependencies sorted out
[13:51] <jussi01> Riddell: sure. whats the python package with it called, cant seem to see it here... ?
[13:52] <Riddell> I've no idea, iz gtk bug
[13:52] <jussi01> hehe
[13:54] <Mamarok> Riddell: how can I order Kuuntu CDs for Jaunty? They only ship 75 in the official packages, as usual :(
[13:54] <Mamarok> Kubuntu* even
[14:01] <davmor2> Riddell: should that bug read eom ;)
[14:03] <jussi01> Riddell: just fyi, seems that you need python-gnome2
[14:07] <nixternal> slangasek: thank you for that update
[14:17] <jussi01> rgreening: moment of truth....
[14:18] <rgreening> hehe
[14:27] <jussi01> rgreening: yep, had the dhcp thing
[14:27] <Riddell> Mamarok: if you have a paticular event I can ask our shipit admin
[14:28] <rgreening> jussi01: ok, appears to be specific to the lpia image.
[14:28] <rgreening> weird
[14:28] <rgreening> ScottK: ^
[14:28] <Mamarok> Riddell: would be nice, yes, I will have OpenExpo again in September, is it possible to have *only* Kubuntu ones?
[14:29] <rgreening> any ideas ScottK? Maybe its the alternate installer is broken
[14:29] <rgreening> though, shouldnt as I just installed server using alt image.. hmmm
[14:29] <ScottK> rgreening: I think we need to ask cjwatson then.  I'd suggest you two get together on a good bug and we ask.
[14:32] <rgreening> jussi01: can you join me in #ubuntu-devel?
[14:47] <Tonio_> ScottK: new kdenlive fixes several crashes out....
[14:47] <ScottK> Tonio_: Package it and test it.  If it's just bugfix, we should get it in.
[14:47] <Tonio_> ScottK: it also adds a couple of new features...
[14:48] <Tonio_> not major ones though...
[14:48] <ScottK> If it fixes crashes, we probably still want it, you just need to do all the FFe paperwork then.
[14:49] <Tonio_> yup
[14:49] <Tonio_> packaging and doing this...
[14:50] <Tonio_> ScottK: will do toonight probably as for now I"m backporting kde 3.5.10 to the french parliament :)
[14:50] <Tonio_> and have 5 builds running in parrallel
[14:50] <ScottK> Still Feisty?
[14:52] <Tonio_> ScottK: hardy
[14:52] <ScottK> Tonio_: Hardy has 3.5.10 in -updates.
[14:52] <ScottK> What is it you need to do?
[14:52] <Tonio_> we don't use the backport branch, only security, so I have to rebuild everything including our patches for our repo
[14:53] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know :)
[14:53] <ScottK> Ah.  I see.
[14:53] <Tonio_> ScottK: bah include our patches :)
[14:53] <jefferai> apachelogger: just fix the scripts to put the macros in the right place
[14:53] <Tonio_> also we have a different versioning policy as well as different distribution naming
[14:53] <ScottK> Lovely.
[14:54] <ScottK> So effectively you're your own derivative then.
[14:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: yup :/
[14:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: and it also has it's own -default-settings package, metapackage and so on
[14:55] <ScottK> Right.
[14:56] <Tonio_> ScottK: which makes sense since what you want in corp env isn't the same as for a standard distrib
[14:56] <Tonio_> beagle, kerry, acroread blabla....
[14:56] <ScottK> Of course.
[14:56] <Tonio_> no dolphin by default :)
[14:57] <smarter> what can acroread do that okular/libpoppler can't?
[14:57] <smarter> (hey)
[14:57] <Tonio_> one day I may consider reusing this to provide a more official derivative targeted to corp env, why not
[14:57] <Tonio_> smarter: editable pdf, with formulars....
[14:57] <Tonio_> smarter: also, kpdf isn't as good as okular, and right now we don' use kde4 (out of question !!)
[14:58] <smarter> right ;)
[14:58] <Tonio_> smarter: also okular sometimes has problems with color recto/verso printing and so on... acroread "just works"
[14:59] <smarter> printing in Qt4 is weird sometimes
[14:59] <Tonio_> smarter: default settings are also very different....
[15:00] <Tonio_> smarter: I started with the kds package and forked it from version 1 to version 86 now :)
[15:00] <Tonio_> let's say it, it is more a fork than a derivative :)
[15:00] <smarter> do you have a screenshot of the default desktop? :p
[15:01] <Tonio_> sure, lemme see...
[15:02] <Riddell> Mamarok: yes that should be possible
[15:03] <Mamarok> Riddell: thanks, so I can also have some to hand over to the KDE people who always show up with OpenSuSE CDs :)
[15:08] <Tonio_> smarter: http://planetemu.net/temp/capture1.png
[15:08] <Tonio_> smarter: as you can see it doesn't look like a kubuntu hardy ;)
[15:09] <smarter> nop
[15:09] <smarter> quiet nice
[15:09] <smarter> the applet is superkaramba-powered?
[15:09] <Tonio_> yup
[15:09] <Tonio_> unfortunatelly, we still don't have plasma on this :/
[15:12] <smarter> the systray icon for sound isn't kmix?
[15:12] <Tonio_> smarter: it is but I packages oxygen for kde3
[15:12] <Tonio_> s/packages/packaged/
[15:12] <smarter> oh ;)
[15:13] <smarter> that's an old version of the icon I guess
[15:13] <Tonio_> also it uses qtcurve by default, as us now
[15:13] <Tonio_> smarter: it i indeed
[15:13] <smarter> you also use qtcurve for gtk apps?
[15:13] <Tonio_> yup
[15:14] <Tonio_> and qt/kde ones aswell for unified theme
[15:14] <Tonio_> that's something I'd like to see one day in kubuntu, but we can hardly get rid of oxygen :) Riddell wouldn't approve this :)
[15:20] <Riddell> Mamarok: e-mail me a couple months before the event
[15:32] <Tonio_> smarter: I'll probably write a blueprint/spec for samba sharing and karmic kde4....
[15:32] <smarter> 'kay$
[15:32] <Tonio_> smarter: just to let you know I won't forget about you for that, once we have time to work on this :)
[15:33] <smarter> I trust you :)
[15:33]  * smarter wishes he could go to the UDS...
[15:33] <Tonio_> this is a really must have....
[15:33] <smarter> true
[15:40] <Quintasan_> Riddell: sorry for late response, looks like mistake in script or a missing build-depend
[15:40] <Quintasan_> Riddell: I will look at it later
[15:53] <shtylman> Riddell: nope...only thing I updated was the timezone stuff for the oem-config kde side
[15:55] <Riddell> shtylman: evan got that bug fixed
[15:55] <shtylman> cool
[15:55] <Riddell> although OEM config is still doing the strange thing of not restoring the kdmrc file at the final stage
[15:56] <shtylman> that may be a d-i bug?
[15:58] <Riddell> kdmrc gets copied to kdmrc-backup or something and somehow the -backup copy has the changes in it for oem autologin when it shouldn't
[16:09] <Mamarok> Riddell: will do, thank you!
[17:23] <nixternal> hey, OpenWeek is almost upon us, anyone interested in doing a Kubuntu session or 2?
[17:23] <nixternal> right now we have 0
[17:23] <nixternal> I will do one
[17:27] <Riddell> nixternal: I told jcastro to put me down for one
[17:27] <nixternal> Riddell: want to do that join QA thing again?
[17:27] <Riddell> oh I don't know anything about QA
[17:27] <nixternal> err, Questions/Answers
[17:27] <Riddell> I was planning on an introduction to Kubuntu through the community or something
[17:27] <Riddell> ah, Q&A
[17:28] <nixternal> ya, forgot that & :)
[17:28] <nixternal> we have a bunch of slots if we want them
[17:28] <nixternal> since the last Q&A was quite successful for us
[17:58] <davmor2> Riddell: what happens if you play some film footage in dragon player and move the mouse back and forth over it?
[18:09] <seele> any progress made on the amarok beta? i didn't see anything new about it
[18:10] <ScottK> Apachelogger has something in his ppa
[18:10] <Riddell> must admit it's not been on my radar
[18:21] <a|wen_> davmor2: what should happen if you do?
[18:22] <davmor2> a|wen_: I don't think the video should stutter :)
[18:22] <a|wen_> davmor2: plays nice and smooth here
[18:25] <a|wen_> davmor2: i suppose you with "stutter" mean that it doesn't play smoothly?
[18:26] <davmor2> a|wen_: it look like your hitting FF or rew
[18:28] <a|wen_> davmor2: try to explain further ... i can't see anything strange neither windowed or in full screen
[18:29] <davmor2> a|wen_: I've moved on since it might be a hardware thing
[18:30] <a|wen_> davmor2: not unlikely to be hardware/driver related
[18:30] <davmor2> there are some 32bit alts left I might have a look at them
[18:34] <ScottK> Seems fine here.
[18:35] <davmor2> ScottK: Like I say it could just be a hw thing
[18:35] <ScottK> It sounds like.
[18:35] <davmor2> but I wanted to check that it was anything more :)
[18:37] <shtylman> my quassel icon is pulsing...is this normal? im scared....
[18:38] <davmor2> shtylman: don't worry it just means you computer is about to blow ;)
[18:39] <shtylman> davmor2: damn...its a nice computer too...
[18:39] <davmor2> shtylman: just vacate the room if it speeds up
[18:42] <shtylman> noted
[19:03] <Lure_> can somebody with digikam/kipi-plugins installed on jaunty confirm that it works?
[19:03] <Lure_> I get crash on start
[19:03] <Lure_> digikam: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/kde4/plugins/phonon_platform/kde.so: undefineng9fromAsciiEPKci�
[19:03] <Lure_> but it may be that my system is broken
[19:08] <ScottK> Lure: When I install that, why is it pulling in libgpod4 instead of libgpod4-nogtk?
[19:10] <seaLne> Lure: loaded ok for me
[19:11] <Lure> seaLne: thanks, so it is my sysem
[19:11] <Lure> ScottK: JontheEchidna knows more - it seems that does not work with nogtk for some reason
[19:12] <JontheEchidna> the kipi ipod plugin needs the gtk version
[19:12] <ScottK> Works here in any case.
[19:12] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That seems unfortunate.
[19:12] <JontheEchidna> yeah, the nogtk one can't move pictures/artwork around :/
[19:13] <ScottK> Are bugs filed in the right places?
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> I can't seem to find an upstream bugtracker
[19:17] <ScottK> "New package: kde-l10n-se (main) [4:4.0.98-0ubuntu2 → 4:4.0.98-0ubuntu3]" seems somewhat old.
[19:19] <apachelogger> jefferai: diff at hand?
[19:19] <apachelogger> ScottK, JontheEchidna: someone just needs to do QA on amarok
[19:19] <apachelogger> packagingwise it shoudl be fine
[19:19] <jefferai> apachelogger: no, because you have all the uncomitted code
[19:19] <jefferai> hence why Nightrose told me to ping you in the first place
[19:19] <jefferai> :-P
[19:19] <jefferai> also I don't know ruby
[19:20] <jefferai> but I can tell you what needs to be done
[19:20] <apachelogger> jefferai: fine with me :D
[19:21] <Riddell> ScottK: that's the latest northern sami translation from upstream.  means the team has got below the % threshold to release it
[19:21] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Makes sense.
[19:21] <ScottK> There's a few of those.
[19:22] <jefferai> apachelogger: can you view the top-level CMakeLists.txt file right now?
[19:23] <apachelogger> of what? ... svnish
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> amarok still plays music :)
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> the little status thing in the systray icon is neat
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> aww. the /media script doesn't work in konvi-kde4 :(
[19:44]  * JontheEchidna amaroks
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> whoa, lastfm gui got pimped
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: works for me (tm)
[19:48] <apachelogger> feel free to copy to experimental and backport then :P
[19:49]  * JontheEchidna wonders if he should fix scrobbling in Amarok 2.0.x first....
[19:49] <JontheEchidna> ~lastfm
[19:49] <kubotu> dualscreenman is listening to "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" by Propellerheads [Decksandrumsandrockandroll, 1998]
[19:51] <a|wen_> JontheEchidna: can you see if the stacktrace on bug 360901 looks like a QT issue to you or if it really is a kdesvn issue?
[19:52] <JontheEchidna> a|wen_: nah, but it originally was filed against kdebase
[19:52] <JontheEchidna> kdesvn would be a more appropriate place to triage it, I think
[19:52] <JontheEchidna> it could very well be a Qt bug though
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> oh, I'm thinking of a different bug
[19:53] <a|wen_> JontheEchidna: yeah, i think you are :)
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> that teaches me to say words without looking first :P
[19:54] <a|wen_> JontheEchidna: the other bug did look like a kdesvn issue ... already reported upstream
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> cool
[19:55]  * a|wen_ reported it upstream more specifically
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, bug 360901's backtrace looks entirely located in Qt
[19:59] <a|wen_> JontheEchidna: okay ... thanks for verifying that my stacktrace reading skills are not completely broken
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> ~lastfm
[20:02] <kubotu> dualscreenman is listening to "Lumberjack Song" by Monty Python [Sings, 1991]
[20:15] <JontheEchidna> I hate patching our amarok packages
[20:17] <seaLne> is there a reason kbluetooth would have a greyed out option for adding an audio device?
[20:19] <seaLne> in device manager if you go to add a new device it has input device and greyed out audio device
[20:25]  * JontheEchidna uploads a hopefully-scrobbling version of amarok 2.0.2 to his ppa
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> ~lastfm
[20:25] <kubotu> dualscreenman is listening to "Clubbed to Death" by Rob Dougan
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> ^That's a good one
[20:37] <jussi01> rgreening: ping?
[20:38] <ScottK> I don't see how sematik could have ever expected to build.
[20:38]  * ScottK is fixing.
[20:50] <ScottK> Riddell: Fixed semantik uploaded.
[20:51]  * ScottK grumbles about test building before sponsoring...
[21:01] <ghostcube> hmm anyone seen britan got talents oO
[21:01] <ghostcube> if not this is to hard
[21:01] <ghostcube> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY&feature=related
[21:12] <sime_> pwnage
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: could I get sponsorship for bug 355308?
[21:57] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: uploading
[22:00] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: all looks good, uploaded :)
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: thanks!
[22:13] <Tonio_> yw :)
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: think you could push amarok through when you get this ping?
[22:14]  * JontheEchidna needs to apply for core-dev, sponsorship is getting boring :P
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> how is that going to work with the archive reorg in karmic?
[22:14] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Nothing that isn't important enough to respin the RC isos gets pushed until after the RC is out.
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: oh, ok
[22:14] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: nvm
[22:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: e-jat for experimental membership or what?
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> hmm?
[22:28] <apachelogger> fenris applied for memership
[22:28] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/~fenris
[22:29]  * apachelogger would technically think that one should qualify for becoming ninja and thus get indirect member of experimental really
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> yeah, unless he had stuff to upload I wouldn't really see the point anyway
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> oh
[22:33]  * JontheEchidna sees about making amarok packages available
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> We want this for jaunty and intrepid?
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> or just jaunty?
[22:34] <apachelogger> intrepid as well
[22:34] <apachelogger> for jaunty you can just copy from my staging ppa
[22:34] <apachelogger> ...don't forget about qtscriptgenerator in both cases though :)
[22:34] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> anything special I should know about backporting?
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> or do I just need to wing it?
[22:35] <apachelogger> just version change I'd think
[22:35] <apachelogger> oh
[22:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you also need to backport taglibs-extras
[22:38] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do I need to upload amarok?
[22:46] <Riddell> davmor2: were your kubuntu upgrade tests from 8.10 or 8.04?
[22:46] <davmor2> 8.10
[22:47] <neversfelde> amarok in 8.10 is currently unusable for last.fm users, so I think it would not be bad to fix this :)
[22:48] <Tonio_> ScottK, Riddell: could you have a look at bug 362005 please ?
[22:49] <neversfelde> err 9.04 not 8.10
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: Tonio did, nothing needs to be done until after RC
[22:56] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I saw you where talking about the issues with the plasmoid NM...
[22:57] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I look at the svn everyday and have a new version available on my repo
[22:57] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but FYI, there is nothing new concerning the network management itself, only "graphical" changes
[22:57] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: which is an issue, I agree, since now it "globally works" nobody seems to have the will to finish it
[22:58] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: mean improve encription, vpn and hsdpa management and so on...
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> yeah...
[22:58] <Tonio_> on the other end, there is a lot of work done arround wicd support and the pardus NM backend....
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> this is what happens when you rely on alpha suse technology being "ready" on your release cycle I guess :P
[22:59] <Tonio_> so hopefully if networkmanager doesn't get mature enough we'll have alternatives...
[22:59] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: well imho "we" (understand canonical) should be concerned about networkmanager support in both ubuntu/kubuntu
[23:00] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and (sorry for that) it is by far more important than notifications...
[23:00] <Tonio_> I needed to say it, sorry...
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> agreed
[23:00] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but for having seen what pardus does, I'm really impressed
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> but they didn't get any new Qt/KDE devs until way into jaunty, maybe things will change....
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> (they meaning Canonical)
[23:01] <Tonio_> http://blog.ratonred.com/2009/02/network-manager-plasmoid/
[23:01] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I hope so :)
[23:01] <Tonio_> also I'm concerned by the fact networkmanager has always been neglected on the kde side appart from suse devs.... that's another story
[23:02] <Tonio_> kopete, konqueror, all of that is great, but what if you can't connect to your wireless ? :)
[23:02]  * Tonio_ wishes he was a better coder...
[23:03] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: the pardus networkmanager even seems to support connection sharing :)
[23:03] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: impressive isn't it ?
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> such a thing exists? :P
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> you wouldn't know it if you'd been using KNM
[23:04] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: well the point is that with kde3 their work was hardly portable, but now it seems their comar backend has a way better structure, and all the graphical stuff is a matter of python kcm modules and plasmoids
[23:04] <Tonio_> honnestly, I think my absolute priority for karmic will be to package their work...
[23:05] <Tonio_> I really don't mind networkmanager becoming the de-facto standard, if it doesn't work, and we have problems with it for more than 2 years now on the kde side, I wouldn't mind getting rid of it for something that receives good maintainance and that works :)
[23:06] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I hope you push me the day I propose this in a meeting, hehe :)
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> :)
[23:06] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hey also have a very nice service manager, as well as a user manager....
[23:07] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: the thing I don't get is that all this never got upstream.... although kde devs said to be impressed by this work...
[23:07] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: probably since that's python only...
[23:08] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and since they use python, they really should be our friends I guess ;)
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> lol
[23:09] <Tonio_> no but seriously this lack of support for network in kde is really a problem we should try to fix on the long term, even if that means changing our mind/backend/whatever...
[23:10] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: when opensuse will be about to be released, there will be a super rush to improve our current plasmoid, which is nice, but our release schedule is a problem on that point for now...
[23:11] <ScottK> Tonio_: I gave kdenlive my ack.  You'd need two.
[23:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: thanks :) who else may I ping ? Riddell ?? ^^
[23:11] <ScottK> Tonio_: I expect for Karmic Canonical will want to give us the 'benifit' of their notification work.
[23:12] <Tonio_> ScottK: bah as said, as long as this doesn't become THE priority and if we can switch back, I don't mind
[23:12] <ScottK> Tonio_: Riddell or any other motu-release member.
[23:12] <Tonio_> but if that's done without a one click way to switch back, and if priority isn't given to low level basic stuff, then I'll be in trouble, let's say :)
[23:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: plus I think what has been done with gnome is currently impossible with kde4....
[23:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: it relays too much on notifications (file copy, file move, extraction etc...)
[23:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: if I can't pause my file copy then we'll break super key improvement in kde4, and that I won't accept...
[23:14] <ScottK> I guess my view is as long as the basic governance strucuture of Kubuntu is maintained, then it'll work out.
[23:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: in computing, I generally tend to improve what lacks and never touch what works :)
[23:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: notifications in kde4 are probably one of the key improvements to kde3 and one of the things that works the best in it....
[23:15] <ScottK> I decided to go to UDS and work on sorting it out, so I haven't give up.
[23:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: but if we start patching all apps to make it to work, or just get rid of the buttons for fun..... that'll be *bad*
[23:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: I just hope any decision isn't already made and the UDS an opportunity to convince us....
[23:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: that was my problem with last google even... nothing to debate, just introduce pre-defined choices...
[23:16] <ScottK> I know the ayatana people have had a planning offsite.  I'd feel a lot better if there was some advance discussion about their thinking.
[23:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: we'll see... but one thing is sure, there are lots of things prior to change the superb kde4 notification system
[23:17] <ScottK> Absolutely.
[23:17] <rickspencer3> Tonio_: ScottK: I think they are very much planning to come and discuss in an open manner
[23:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: port usb-creator, improve network manager, get user management and service management kcm modules....
[23:17] <ScottK> rickspencer3: I've heard that before.
[23:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: kde4 integration in OOo instead of kde3....
[23:18] <rickspencer3> I haven't seen anything that makes me think the KDE arm of the Dx team have decided anything
[23:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: so many things in fact...
[23:18] <ScottK> Yeah.
[23:18] <ScottK> rickspencer3: The problem is since it's completely opaque to the community we can do nothing but speculate.
[23:18] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: no offence there :)
[23:18] <rickspencer3> It's too bad we couldn't pull off the KDE 4 dialogs i OO in Jaunty
[23:19] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: just that a lot of people were very surprised that lots of things were decided before the last UDS :)
[23:19] <rickspencer3> yeah
[23:19] <rickspencer3> just was discussing this morning how that didn't work out so well
[23:19] <ScottK> Debian has KDE4 in Sid now and they have some decent coders in their KDE team, so maybe we can collaborate with them.
[23:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: pardus also does incredible things at the moment with kde4.... I tested and was blown away, really...
[23:20] <rickspencer3> ScottK you mean for OO integrations?
[23:20] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Yes.
[23:20] <rickspencer3> for OO 3.1?
[23:20] <ScottK> The problem is the KDE4 integration is not at all mature, so it's not just a question of packaging.
[23:20] <ScottK> Someone needs to write the code.
[23:20] <rickspencer3> calc tried very hard to make the new dialogs work, but it busted all over the place, and no one could get it to work in other distros
[23:21] <rickspencer3> irc
[23:21] <ScottK> If we could get some resource behind that and work with other interested distros, that would be a real service.
[23:21] <rickspencer3> yeah
[23:21] <rickspencer3> I think calc was the first one who really tried to ship it, and it kicked back pretty hard :)
[23:21] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Yes.  It needs someone who can write KDE code.
[23:21] <rickspencer3> and OO code, and who can manage the OO build system
[23:21] <Tonio_> ScottK: one of openoffice tech board members is a very good friend of mine
[23:21] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:22] <ScottK> Escellent.
[23:22] <ScottK> s/x
[23:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: maybe we can try to find out both a debian/ubuntu resource and an OOo one to work together on that point
[23:22] <rickspencer3> have you guys considered joining #ayatana and asking what's up with notifications and Karmic Kubuntu?
[23:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: and I know she is really concerned about kde4, ut she's not a coder :)
[23:22] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Did.  Got not answer.
[23:22] <ScottK> not/no
[23:22] <rickspencer3> hmm
[23:22] <rickspencer3> strange
[23:22] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: not yet (no time for that unfortunatelly....) I'm super busy currently :/
[23:23] <ScottK> I've been idling there for a couple of weeks.
[23:23] <rickspencer3> huh, I see ScottK in there now in fact
[23:23] <ScottK> rickspencer3: I don't find it strange at all.  I find it consistent.
[23:23] <rickspencer3> it's strange that it's consistent then
[23:23] <rickspencer3> I don't know that they, in fact, have any solid plans
[23:24] <rickspencer3> I know that on the Ubuntu side they are planning to develop a couple of things in Karmic
[23:24] <rickspencer3> but in the normal way
[23:24] <ScottK> I'd have loved to hear something like, "Dunno, what do you think".
[23:24] <rickspencer3> starting with discussion at UDS
[23:24] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: the thing is that compared to gnome, kde4 relays really very strongly on notifications (aka even for file copy for example)
[23:24] <rickspencer3> yeah
[23:24] <ScottK> They describe what happened at Google as discussion too.
[23:24] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: so before starting or deciding anything, feasability has to be checked
[23:25] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: plus considering maintaining this on the long term, as since the passive notifications are completly against kde philosophy...
[23:25] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: it'll *never* go upstream for sure...
[23:25] <rickspencer3> ScottK - Jaunty was different, because it was the first real development project they did
[23:25] <ScottK> rickspencer3: One of the new features I like the best in Jaunty would have been prohibited by the Canonical Notification design.
[23:25] <rickspencer3> now we have the benefit of experience
[23:26] <rickspencer3> I'm organizing the desktop track, and Dx is part of my track
[23:26] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: everything has a start, and whatever the attempt is, even if I don't agree, trying new things is always good, I have no pb with that, really
[23:26] <ScottK> rickspencer3: I'm am keeping an open mind that Jaunty will prove to be exceptional, but I have to see some evidence.
[23:26] <rickspencer3> fair enough
[23:26] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: just that I don't place notifications in the center of the desktop user experience
[23:26] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: for me they have to fit the concerned desktop philosophy
[23:26] <rickspencer3> Tonio_: I don't think it was at the center of the experience, but ...
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> Aah, it's nice to be able to do no-changes backports L)
[23:26] <ScottK> rickspencer3: If it helps any, I grew up right next to Missouri.  You know their state motto, right?
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> *:)
[23:27] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: most people (including me) understood it like this :)
[23:27] <rickspencer3> unlike KDE, GNOME didn't have a well define philosophy, so I think it was a good place to start
[23:27] <rickspencer3> Tonio_: yeah, I think it's interesting
[23:27] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: absolutly true :)
[23:27] <ScottK> It didn't help any to have them in here telling us how great the new notification design would be for Kubuntu when they hadn't even tried the existing KDE 4.2 notification system.
[23:28] <rickspencer3> yeah
[23:28] <rickspencer3> open mouth, insert foot
[23:28] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: gnome is more a list of good softwares, but at some points lacking a strong commonly shared structure linking them
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> aside from GTK^, though that's not a strong link
[23:28] <rickspencer3> mmm
[23:28] <rickspencer3> I find that GNOME hangs together quite nicely actually ...
[23:29] <rickspencer3> but I think the HIG is the unifier
[23:29] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: gtk is nothing compared to plasma + solid + phonon + akonadi etc...
[23:29] <ScottK> Dunno.  The only times I ran Gnome is just felt wrong to me.
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> of course :)
[23:29] <rickspencer3> heh
[23:29] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and all of them also are linked... changing the notifications on that point would be *super* critical :)
[23:29] <ScottK> I'm glad people like it for them, but it's not for me.
[23:29] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: from a technical perspective I mean :)
[23:29] <ScottK> From what little I know about it, I understand the upstream discussions with Gnome didn't go so great either.
[23:30] <rickspencer3> I don't recall problems there at all
[23:30] <rickspencer3> GNOME has a long tradition of people starting "competitor" projects
[23:30] <Tonio_> ScottK: I followed a bit, it didn't seem that rude, especially since as rickspencer3 said, there wasn't that strong philosophy in gnome
[23:31] <ScottK> I'm just going on hearsay.
[23:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: plus any feature removal in gnome is generally considered *interesting* :)
[23:31] <ScottK> I did see one bug report where the reaction was essentially send patches and we'll consider them.
[23:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: forget that, just the last late troll of the day :)
[23:31] <rickspencer3> my sense is that the KDE community views forking and starting "competitor" projects much more negatively
[23:31] <ScottK> Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but not a strong reject either.
[23:31] <JontheEchidna> From what I've seen, if the new Kubuntu notification stuff follows the same design principles as the Ubuntu stuff, upstream won't be amused
[23:31]  * rickspencer3 kicks Tonio_
[23:32] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: kde is more in "improve one good peace together" than "let's reinvent the wheel"
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> none of the plasma devs see the design as anything less than retarded, tbh
[23:32] <ScottK> Tonio_: I'm with you on the late troll of the day anyway.
[23:32] <rickspencer3> yeah
[23:32] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: that's why there is generally one good kde software and not 10 competitors...
[23:32] <rickspencer3> there's seem to be much more reverance for "upstream"
[23:32] <rickspencer3> it's a differnet culture
[23:32] <Tonio_> yup, not better or worse, but different (my preference goes there, but that's just me)
[23:32] <ScottK> One that Canonical does not appear to have done a stellar job of trying to work with.
[23:33] <ScottK> I know jono's community development expo isn't a Canonical thing exactly, but he didn't invite KDE at all.
[23:33] <ScottK> They all know who he works for.
[23:33] <rickspencer3> I don't even know what you're talking about
[23:33] <rickspencer3> community development expo?
[23:33] <rickspencer3> am I that out of the loop? ;)
[23:34]  * JontheEchidna didn't know about it
[23:34] <Tonio_> ScottK: really ? that doesn't ressemble jono...
[23:34] <ScottK> That's my understanding
[23:34] <Tonio_> ScottK: got it...
[23:35]  * Tonio_ is stick of backporting the all kde3 for the french parliament.....
[23:35]  * Tonio_ wishes he could use kde4 for the migration :'(
[23:36] <rickspencer3> jono's ears aren't burning
[23:36] <jono> hey
[23:36] <rickspencer3> I told him to join :)
[23:36] <jono> whats going on?
[23:36] <rickspencer3> well asked, really
[23:36] <rickspencer3> we were talking about Kubuntu and Ayatana at UDS
[23:36] <rickspencer3> is it going to be a discussion, or is the Dx team going to show up with ...
[23:36] <rickspencer3> a bunch of desiscions?
[23:37] <jono> ahhh right
[23:37] <rickspencer3> also, there was some question about some kind of expo thing, and why KDE wasn't invited
[23:37] <jono> who raised the concerns about the invitations thing?
[23:37] <rickspencer3> uh
[23:37] <ScottK> jono: That was me.
[23:37] <rickspencer3> "the community"
[23:37] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:37] <jono> ScottK, what is the concern?
[23:38] <ScottK> jono: It's not a big deal.  I just heard there were some perception issues related to who got invited and who didn't.
[23:38] <jono> yeah, this is nonsense
[23:38] <jono> a few notes:
[23:39] <jono>  * the CLS is an open summit in which anyone is welcome to join
[23:39] <jono>  * the reason KDE never got an invite is simply because I forgot - there is no conspiracy
[23:39] <jono>  * also, many other large projects didn't get an invite - X.org, Mozilla, OpenOffice.org, Thunderbird, Evolution etc
[23:40] <jono> there were a lot more projects who didn't get an invite than did
[23:40] <jono> and those who got an invite were simply the most immediate people in my address book to begin filling it up
[23:40] <jono> I would love KDE participation and if there are any people you would recommend to invite, I am happy to do so
[23:40] <ScottK> jono: I think the uncertainty about ayatana is really a much more important issue.
[23:41] <jono> ScottK, sure, I just wanted to set the record straight on the summit
[23:41] <ScottK> Fair enough
[23:41] <jono> ScottK, also, next time you have a concern, email me - much better than discussing it in a channel I am not in ;-)
[23:41]  * ScottK nods
[23:41] <jono> good man
[23:41] <jono> ayatana?
[23:41] <rickspencer3> yea dude
[23:41] <ScottK> Desktop Experince
[23:42] <ScottK> experience even
[23:42] <rickspencer3> so I got the impression (very strongly) that the dx team was coming to UDS to discuss and develop int eh normal way for Karmic
[23:42] <jono> rickspencer3, likewise
[23:42] <rickspencer3> you were in that meeting this morning
[23:42] <rickspencer3> okay
[23:42] <rickspencer3> good
[23:42] <rickspencer3> unfortunatley their all asleep now
[23:43] <jono> I think it would be valuable to have plenty of discussion
[23:43] <rickspencer3> yeah
[23:43] <jono> maybe ScottK can advise on his expectations
[23:43] <ScottK> I think it would be useful to improve the community perception if they would give some advance word of what it is they want to discuss
[23:43] <rickspencer3> would they not follow the normal blueprint process?
[23:43] <ScottK> jono: My expectation is that they will show up and give direction and we'll all get up and leave.  I hope I am wrong in that.
[23:44] <jono> ScottK, half full my friend, half full :-)
[23:44] <jono> I would like to think there will be good engagement at UDS
[23:44] <rickspencer3> jono - I haven't heard much about plans for KDE though
[23:44] <jono> damn, brb, phone
[23:45] <jono> back
[23:45] <jono> wrong number
[23:45] <rickspencer3> ask one tough question, jono folds like a house of cards
[23:45] <rickspencer3> oops
[23:45] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:45]  * jono slaps rickspencer3 :-)
[23:45] <ScottK> jono: I keep looking for facts on the ground to give me more optimism.  I'm open to it, but I have to see it.
[23:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: I discussed the notification stuff with david barth at the french SL2009 and I had the feeling nothing was already decided, and that discussion was still possible
[23:45] <jono> rickspencer3, yeah, I think we should encourage some KDE focused Dx sessions at UDS
[23:45] <jono> ScottK, dude, look at the wider governance and openness in Ubuntu - its pretty good
[23:46] <jono> compare and contrast with governance elsewhere
[23:46] <Tonio_> ScottK: plus agateau also is there to give his opinion now, and knows about kde technicals and philosophy...
[23:46] <rickspencer3> jono: last UDS the Kubuntu folks had some killer sessions for Jaunty
[23:46] <jono> ScottK, lets get things in perspective - while there may be concerns around the Dx stuff, it does not overshadow the whole game
[23:46] <ScottK> jono: There was zero community engagement in the notification design for Jaunty and even stuff like the update-notifier changes that got essentially 100% negative reaction, it was ignored.
[23:46] <jono> I agree that there should be solid discussion
[23:46] <rickspencer3> I feel like we're about to repeat a conversation we've had many times before
[23:46] <jono> rickspencer3, agreed
[23:46] <jono> we have been through this
[23:47] <rickspencer3> I'm sure the chanell would rather get back to shipping Jaunty
[23:47] <jono> lets focus on moving forward
[23:47] <jono> yeah
[23:47] <rickspencer3> I think that I should come back when I have ...
[23:47] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Certainly, bu t nothing's actually changed yet.
[23:47] <rickspencer3> actually sessions to discuss
[23:47] <jono> ScottK, this is a process, things adjust and move, give it time
[23:47] <rickspencer3> I plan to talk to dbarth tomorrow about the sessions that he wants, so it should be a matter of a couple of days
[23:47] <jono> ScottK, but what would help is positive energy from you
[23:47] <jono> I am not asking you to ignore the issues, but lets focus on solutions
[23:48] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: that would be greeat
[23:48] <rickspencer3> sweet
[23:48] <rickspencer3> in the meantime
[23:48] <jono> rickspencer3, agreed, lets focus on sessions
[23:48] <rickspencer3> JAUNTY JAUNTY JAUTNY!
[23:48] <jono> I recommend a bunch of blueprints are put together to inspire the sessions
[23:48] <ScottK> jono: There is nothing with respect to solutions I can do.
[23:48] <rickspencer3> both Kubuntu and Ubuntu are about to have epic releases!
[23:48] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: bah there is nobody to approve me FFE's that late :/
[23:48] <jono> ok, I will leave you folks to it if you are scheduling
[23:48] <rickspencer3> Tonio_: lol
[23:48] <jono> must get back to the email pit
[23:49] <jono> I will loiter here, ping me if needed
[23:49] <Tonio_> jono: see ya
[23:49] <jono> ScottK, don't worry, pal :-)
[23:49] <jono> bye Tonio_ !
[23:49] <rickspencer3> has it occurred to you guys that Karmic starts with a "K"
[23:50] <rickspencer3> the next release is like *your* release :)
[23:50]  * rickspencer3 back to work
[23:50] <Tonio_> rickspencer3: hehe :)
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: looks like qtscriptbindings is a no-go for intrepid
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> maybe it needs Qt 4.5?
[23:55] <vorian> boo ya
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> whew
[23:55] <vorian> werd homies
[23:55]  * JontheEchidna just copied over amarok for Jaunty, LP will be going down in 4
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> though it probably won't publish in time?
[23:58] <vorian> time for what?
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> to publish the Amarok 2.1 beta .debs before LP goes down
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> I don't know if that would affect the publishing cron job or not
[23:58] <vorian> Show Me (answer to ScottK's question)
[23:58] <ScottK> vorian: Absolutely.
[23:58] <vorian> ah, it'll be a wait and see deal
[23:59]  * vorian colleged in Missouri
[23:59] <ScottK> vorian: Where?
[23:59] <vorian> SMSU
[23:59] <vorian> now known as MSU