[00:00] <vorian> They were fighting to get that changed when I was in school, but THE Missouri University kept blocking it
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> http://juliank.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/python-apt-to-become-first-debian-package-to-support-python-3/
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> maybe that'll take care of update-notifier-kde's mem usage
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> (in ref to the memory savings in python-apt
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> )
[00:01] <ScottK> Yeah
[00:02] <JontheEchidna> that being said, when are we going to push our stuff over to python3?
[00:02] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: In about 5 years
[00:02] <ScottK> not kidding
[00:02] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hum.... the problem there is more with the design and tests performed by python-apt
[00:03] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: the simple "isUpgradable" method is really, really testing everything possible
[00:03] <JontheEchidna> All I know is that every update, update-notifier-kde loads a whole python-apt thingie, which ends up eating 50 MB RAM
[00:03] <JontheEchidna> or something, I forget the technical details
[00:03] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yup, but well probably python 3 would help, also, the design has to be rewritten
[00:04] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: a simple port will not fix everything on that point
[00:04] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: It'd be really cool if the tool tip for the reboot need icon would tell you which packages it needed reboot for.
[00:04] <vorian> "please update for a new notification thingy"
[00:04] <Tonio_> ScottK: we also need something like a "you should logout and login again" for plasma/kdelibs updates for example
[00:04] <vorian> "It's a very important change"
[00:05] <Tonio_> ScottK: I have this on my list for the UDS
[00:05] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think reboot is enough.  Just say reboot is needed for that case too.
[00:06] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum.... but then how do you make the difference between a minor plasma update and an upstream version change ?
[00:06] <Tonio_> I don't want to ask people to reboot when there is a desktop file fix for plasma...
[00:06] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: qtscriptgenerator shouldn't need Qt4.5
[00:06] <Nightrose> what's the problem?
[00:06] <ScottK> The point isn't the degree of change, but what's needed to make it effective and does the average user care to logout/in instead of just rebooting
[00:06] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: f-f-f-failure
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> it sorta just doesn't build
[00:07] <Nightrose> ScottK: good luck for the notification discussion
[00:07] <Tonio_> ScottK: I agree with you on that point
[00:07] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: heh - got a pastebin?
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> it complains about something phonon-ish
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: I would, but launchpad's offline :/
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> I could give you the whole buildlog if it wasn't
[00:08] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: once you got it poke eean or Harald or have a look at our packagers list
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: anyways, I copied Harald's packages over to kubuntu-experimental right before LP went offline
[00:08] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think where there is smart postinst stuff we can do to make restarts of things happen it's reasonable to look into
[00:08] <ScottK> Nightrose: Thanks.
[00:09]  * JontheEchidna should write up a news story
[00:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum yep, but we have to list the sensible kde packages then :)
[00:09] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: \o/
[00:09]  * JontheEchidna also notes that there have been a lot of news stories on the kubuntu frontpage lately
[00:09] <ScottK> Tonio_: Probably a short list
[00:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: also I think we can be agressive on that point
[00:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: look at OSX, it is incredibly popular
[00:10] <Tonio_> ScottK: and believe me, any update requires reboot
[00:10] <Tonio_> and if you discard, you are prompted to reboot every..... 5 minutes...
[00:10] <Tonio_> and people like it
[00:10] <ScottK> Their upgrade mechanism is very painful.
[00:10] <daskreech> Isn't Ubuntu Policy just kinda reboot anywy?
[00:10] <JontheEchidna> which kdelibs cases require a reboot? Any crashes I see usually occur because HAL is being restarted during the update?
[00:10] <daskreech> I've seen it ask for reboot for upgrades of databases
[00:10] <JontheEchidna> er, minus that last ?
[00:11] <Tonio_> also, I noticed that sometimes you are prompted to reboot before the upgrade ends :)
[00:11] <JontheEchidna> kded4 doesn't like HAL being restarted much
[00:11] <Tonio_> that's REALLY bad :)
[00:11] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: imho, for all those reasons, I tend to favor upgrades at shurdown the way windows does
[00:12] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: it avoids those "on the fly" upgrades that might crash your apps
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> but these crashes happen *during* the upgrade, there's nothign we can do to stop that
[00:12] <Tonio_> like going from OOo 2 to OOo 3 with openoffice opened :)
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> and fwiw the kded crash is the only one I've seen
[00:12] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: bah we have to test the upgrades before and make sure everything is okay, that's true
[00:13] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but it's something that can be controlled, a lot more than what happens in this app when going from version a to version b
[00:13] <Tonio_> that's very random :)
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> all I'm saying is that kdelibs/plasma updates probably don't require a reboot
[00:13] <daskreech> Is ogg123 on the repos for anyone else?
[00:14] <daskreech>  jackalope
[00:14] <Tonio_> one thing is sure : update notifier shouldn't popup the icon while dpkg is still runing
[00:14] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that's for sure
[00:14] <ScottK> Tonio_: Not sure how to avoid that
[00:14] <JontheEchidna> daskreech: install vorbis-tools?
[00:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: make a loop and don't display the icon if dpkg database is locked....
[00:14] <daskreech> ScottK: A PID check ?
[00:14] <Tonio_> as simple as this
[00:14] <ScottK> Maybe
[00:14] <daskreech> JontheEchidna: AAhh that's what I moved to
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> <3 command-not-found
[00:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: too late for jaunty anyway :/
[00:15] <ScottK> Getting reboot required is a simple as touching one file, so we can put that in the postinst of any update we want.
[00:15] <Tonio_> that's not critical issue, and is both a matter of code and feature change...
[00:15] <ScottK> Yes.  We're starting Karmic feature discussions
[00:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: if /var/lib/dpkg/lock exists, then wait 10 sec and test again...
[00:15] <Tonio_> then display the warning...
[00:16] <eiv> Just wanted to report that installation of 9.04 beta was successful from USB drive created with USBCreator under Kubuntu 8.10.  The new install boots FAST!  Only "bug" found so far is that I can't install Digikam or kipi-plugins with KPackageKit - it wanted to remove libgpod4-nogtk which was going to remove Amarok.
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> I'd like to get syntax-checking for adding repo URI's in software-properties-kde for karmic, for one thing
[00:17] <Tonio_> eiv: yeah, kpackagekit doesn't like package removal.... it's the very first release with it, it'll imprive in the future...
[00:17] <ScottK> eiv: amarok in Jaunty will work with either.
[00:17] <Tonio_> eiv: not as good as I'd like too, but alway better than adept
[00:17] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think both are unusably flawed.  I'd prefer we'd shipped no GUI tool to what we have.
[00:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: kpackagekit is currently maintained, and there are discussions against the backend issues....
[00:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: we always had problem with our package manager anyway....
[00:18] <eiv> ok.  I'll try with adept.  But what your saying is that amarok should be able to exist and play fine without libgpod4-nogtk?
[00:18] <ScottK> It's 2009 and DNS cache poisoning  is here to stay.  Not worrying about cryptographic verification of packages is just wrong.
[00:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: but yes, it's far from beeing perfect, I agree.... at least it is maintained and will evolve for sure
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> on the bright side, neither package managers crash quite like Adept 2.x did ;-)
[00:19] <ScottK> eiv: You should ugrade with upgrade-manager anyway
[00:19] <ScottK> There's instructions on the wiki
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> before I got involved in the greater Kubuntu community, I always found adept really unstable
  I know, but I have a spare machine that I thought I would use to test the ISO...
[00:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: then don't use a dns cache :)
[00:20] <ScottK> Tonio_: It's not your DNS cache that's the problem, but your ISP's.
[00:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: I was kidding :)
[00:20] <ScottK> OK
[00:20] <ScottK> Also we have users that traverse the great firewall of China to get packages from us.
[00:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's not the main issue with kpk anyway
[00:21] <Tonio_> ScottK: not beeing able to insall java is another story from the user perspective imho
[00:21] <ScottK> The lack of cryptographic verification is extremely problemtic for them
[00:21] <Tonio_> ScottK: apt-mirror ?
[00:21] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think we are the ones that understand the technical details.  It's up to us to provide secure infrastructure pieces.
[00:21] <eiv> Tonio_: I had the same problem with Java and KPackageKit - had to use 'apt-get -f install' to fix
[00:22] <Tonio_> eiv: that's known issue :/
[00:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's true, but kpk lacks not only low-level functionnality
[00:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: the simple lack of licence support is a problem
[00:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: also is the "upgrade" vs "dist-upgrade" stuff
[00:23] <ScottK> Tonio_: Yes.  Debian KDE team considered it competely unsuitable and is continuing Adept developement.
[00:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: and to me that's as important than the cryptography support
[00:23] <eiv> just FYI - Adept allowed me to install Digikam, while successfully removing libpod4-nogtk and retaining Amarok with what seems to be full functionality
[00:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: they forked adept ?????
[00:23] <ScottK> eiv: Please file bugs on kpackagekit.
[00:23] <eiv> np
[00:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: kpk is probably the one thing we'll have to take care the most for karmic...
[00:24] <ScottK> Tonio_: They are going to continue development from where it was stopped.
[00:24] <ScottK> It's on the Debian short list for GSoC proposals.
[00:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: the reason that make me confident in kpk are the good design
[00:24] <Tonio_> kcm modules + policykit and so on
[00:24] <Tonio_> but that's not enough for a good package manager, I absolutly agree
[00:25] <Tonio_> the thing is that most the the issues are not kpk
[00:25] <Tonio_> but the apt backend
[00:25] <ScottK> Yes
[00:26] <Tonio_> ScottK: I heard canonical was considering writting their own backend for it.....
[00:26] <Tonio_> ScottK: I think it was Riddell talking about that...
[00:26] <ScottK> There was that smart thing.
[00:26] <ScottK> Dunno if anything ever came of it.
[00:26] <ScottK> But that's an apt level tool AFAIK.
[00:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: but note that the backend receives love and is very far from beeing unmaintained.... that's the advantage against adept
[00:27] <ScottK> If they ever replace apt, then it'll be very hard not to end up a fork from Debian.
[00:27] <ScottK> Except Debian has made the decision to maintain Adept.
[00:27] <ScottK> So it'll be maintained here shortly.
[00:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: debian of kde/debian ? not the same thing
[00:28] <Tonio_> ScottK: bah if adept proves to be reliable in the future, I have no pb coming back to it
[00:28] <ScottK> It's on the Debian GSoC list, not the Debian/KDE GSoC liist
[00:29] <Tonio_> ScottK: to be honnest I would love kpk UI with libapt on the backend...
[00:29] <Tonio_> adept has alays been good at what it was doing, except from the UI
[00:29] <eiv> agreed.  I've always used Synaptic for a GUI
[00:29] <Tonio_> kpk UI is very kde, which I like, but yeah, packagekit philosophy is very different from debian... that's another issue
[00:30] <Tonio_> also, apt is for the sysadmin, not for my mother
[00:30] <Tonio_> I love deb packages, but on that point, rpm is making it better for the end user
[00:30] <Tonio_> debconf/ucf/dpkg are way too noisy for John Doe...
[00:30] <JontheEchidna> I don't think that KPK belongs inside a KCM (A package manager could have a KCM, maybe incorporating software-properties) but otherwise the UI is ok for me
[00:31] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: the shame is that when ubuntu probably has the best packages database over all linux distros
[00:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: we never had the nice package manager to deal with it properly on kubuntu side
[00:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: suse is the opposite, package database crackfull, but super UI...
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> Back when I was a mere user, I always seemed to manager with Adept 2, but it was really slow and unstable
[00:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: sometimes I wish there is just one distro, that kicks ass :)
[00:33] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: sure adept 2 was better than adept 3
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> I disagree
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> Adept 2 was slow and unstable. The only thing that it has on Adept 3 is that Adept 2 had better search funtions
[00:33] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: disagree about what ? one distro (that was just what my frustration sometimes drives me through)
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> that adept 2 was better than 3
[00:34] <Tonio_> hum, well we had the super coder, for sure
[00:34] <Tonio_> just that seele and him had a different vision of the UI :)
[00:34] <Tonio_> I would love to see mornfall work on packagekit apt backend
[00:34] <Tonio_> he would or sure be the man for this....
[00:35] <Tonio_> if I had the money, I would pay him for that :/
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> he has said before that he feels packagekit is fundamentally flawed, though I can't remember why
[00:35] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: no interraction with the user....
[00:36] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but really, believe me, the very first thing we are asked for when we deploy ubuntu in corp environment is "how to make updates to shut the f*** up ???????????"
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> maybe my 18 MB #kubuntu-devel logs caught his reasons
[00:37] <Tonio_> to me packagekit has to be blessed for that, except it's hard to handle on the backend side with apt strong basis on that point
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> [Tue Oct 28 2008] [08:54:04] <mornfall>	Yes, people are trying to come up with ways to make things like searching through slow, crappy dbus interfaces work, but that's something I'd just rather avoid.
[00:37] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: can you seriously imagin a french parliamenter having to answer this ?
[00:37] <Tonio_> "the file /etc/blablarc was touched by you or a script..."
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> lol
[00:37] <Tonio_> "what to do ? keep, replace ??"
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> if they're anything like our senators, they'd shit bricks
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> especially Ted Stevens
[00:38] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: nobody has to be able to response to this question...
[00:38] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that's why I consider apt great for sysadmins, it makes things simple for them
[00:39] <Tonio_> on the other side, I think packagekit has the winning vision for the future, really
[00:39] <Tonio_> just it'll take time before the backend fixes the apt support correctly, to be compliant with packagekit philosophy without breaking things
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> aww, my logs end when I switched over to Quassel. :( I guess konversation-kde4 doesn't do logs yet
[00:40] <ScottK> Tonio_: You can configure apt so you never ever get asked a conffile question.
[00:40] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yeah, I don't like this with quassel.... I can't "grep" for the logs....
[00:40] <ScottK> Tonio_: That's my biggest complaint.
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> I'm not using Quassel anymore
[00:40] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know I had to do it :)
[00:41] <ScottK> OTOH, I have to use Konversation the other day and i totally missed the chat monitor.
[00:41] <Tonio_> force-all in dpkg options helps
[00:41] <ScottK> have/had
[00:41] <JontheEchidna> quassel is good, though :)
[00:41] <Tonio_> but then you have debconf
[00:41] <Tonio_> non-interractive works, true that
[00:41] <ScottK> You can quiet that too
[00:41] <Tonio_> but then the licences......
[00:41] <Tonio_> etc..
[00:41] <Tonio_> it is not easy to do, really
[00:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: you can also preseed responses for debconf, I know
[00:42] <JontheEchidna> otherwise I have almost a year of #kubuntu-devel logs
[00:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: but for having to do that for years now, I really would like a tool to handle that once and for all on the desktop side
[00:42] <Tonio_> I hope kpk to make it decently in the future :)
[00:42] <ScottK> Yeah.  That's actually the reason ScottK-desktop hangs out here, so my text file logs continue.
[00:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: I may be wrong, though, but I'm confident in it
[00:42] <JontheEchidna> Whoa, I've almost been with kubuntu development for almost a year, come to think of it
[00:43] <JontheEchidna> er, I just used almost twice there
[00:43] <ScottK> Tonio_: I really wish we would switch to new stuff after it works, not in the hope it would work some day.
[00:43] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: is there a ay to auto purge logs in quassel ? looks like growing forever for me....
[00:43] <ScottK> Sput: ^^^?
[00:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: we should take care at this in the future, true that
[00:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: but well, then we would still release with kde3....
[00:43]  * ScottK just wants one release with no aspects that are complete crap.
[00:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: jaunty + kde4 was a different case
[00:44] <ScottK> Gutsy was the last release that was good all the way around for me.
[00:44] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Better package database than Debian?
[00:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: plus adept ain't really better than kpk anyway
[00:44] <nixternal> woo, just cleaned up a few hundred gig of irc logs :) i am now at 4gb worth which is roughly 2.5 years worth
[00:44] <ScottK> Tonio_: It has some things it's better at.
[00:44] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: as good at least
[00:45] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: plus we have some softwares they don't still have...
[00:45] <nixternal> I had logs from 1990 :/
[00:45] <DaSkreech> packagekit?
[00:45]  * JontheEchidna writes up an amarok 2.1 beta announcement
[00:45] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: let's say it's equivalent... it's still better than fedora or opensuse, for which you have to relay on 10 external repos
[00:46] <ScottK> Yep
[00:46] <DaSkreech> Is that because of philosophy?
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> eh? 403'd?
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> but I logged in as webmaster
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> Riddell, ryanakca: has anything changed in regards to the website credentials?
[00:47] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you use Firefor or Konqueror?
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> I get 403'd with the webmaster account
[00:47] <ScottK> r/x
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: FF
[00:47] <ScottK> OK.  So much for that theory
[00:48] <ScottK> Gotta run ....
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: so amarok 2.1b is available, but I can't seem to make an announcement on the website yet :(
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: also, https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-experimental/+archive/ppa/+build/949655
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> qtscriptbindings failure^
[00:55]  * Tonio_ beds....
[01:07] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: you need to add all phonon libs in order to get that to build...you can't build qtscriptbindings in its current form without patching it
[01:08] <nixternal> actually, you need to patch the hell out of it in order to get it build
[01:13] <JontheEchidna> I'd rather just not backport it
[03:32] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: do we need to rebuild the rest of the KDE modules so that they will keep the translations in their .desktop files?
[03:33]  * JontheEchidna just now realizes that riddell is probably sleeping
[03:34] <ScottK> Never can tell with him.
[05:30] <a|wen_> do anyone know why there is a "screen-configurations.xml" file in the home-dir on a new install / with a new user?
[06:50] <rmrfslash> Hey everyone. I just upgraded to 9.04. After installing Kubuntu 8.10, knetworkmanager was able to recognize my Verizon USB modem and connect me to the internet using CMDA. Now, the NetworkManager plasmoid doesn't.
[06:50] <rmrfslash> Anyone have any suggestions?
[07:26] <Sput> ScottK, Tonio_: proper log handling and autopurging and fulltext search is definitely something we have on our agenda
[07:26] <Sput> after all, we have a database at our disposal :)
[07:31] <Daskreech> mysql ?
[07:35] <markey> and agaaaain, a new kernel
[07:36] <markey> what's the point of this?
[07:36] <markey> why would I want a new kernel every week, including a reboot
[07:36] <markey> a mystery
[07:39] <Sput> Daskreech: postgres
[08:14] <Tonio_> Sput: rocking ;)
[08:20] <android> Tonio_: you feel like hacking on something? :D
[08:20] <Tonio_> android: I feel like waking up and need to take a shower :)
[08:20] <android> Tonio_: hehe :D
[08:20] <Tonio_> android: but appart from that any suggestion ?
[08:22] <android> Tonio_: I think Ive mentioned this before, but I would really love to see the nm plasmoid using the list of providers for easy config  - the list that gnomes nm-applet uses
[08:22] <android> !info mobile-broadband-providers
[08:22] <android> err
[08:22] <Tonio_> android: indeed that would be cool or hsdpa....
[08:23] <Tonio_> android: bu tthe lake of maintainance for the nm is a more general issue....
[08:23] <android> Tonio_: yeah, its just an auto config list for hsdpa
[08:23] <Tonio_> android: too late for any hack in jaunty, but that's something we'll have to discuss in the uds for the long term purpose...
[08:23] <android> !info mobile-broadband-provider-info
[08:23] <Tonio_> android: no time for that today, but why not for tomorrow :)
[08:24] <android> Tonio_: super stuff :)
[08:24] <Tonio_> android: the problem is that I don't have hsdpa device to test...
[08:24] <android> Tonio_: really? :/
[08:24] <android> not even your mobile??
[08:24] <Tonio_> android: hsdpa for laptops is pretty rare in france, we are more to have wireless everywhere :)
[08:24] <Tonio_> android: I have an iphone :)
[08:24] <android> Oh, ok. /me has 3 devices...
[08:25] <Tonio_> barrely usable with kde4
[08:25] <android> yeah
[08:25] <android> Iphones are annoying like that...
[08:25]  * Tonio_ showers and goes to work
[08:25] <Tonio_> android: I think we should even consider getting out of networkmanager for instance, since there are nice alternatives coming along
[08:25] <Tonio_> android: but that's another story ;)
[08:26] <android> Tonio_: hehe, yeah perhaps
[08:29] <android> someone remind me of the meta package name for the extra plasmoids?
[09:05] <Mamarok> android: plasma-widget something I guess
[09:06] <Mamarok> it's not plasmoids anymore since 4.2
[09:19] <Nightrose> nixternal: wohoooo @ email to cwg - let's see how this works out
[09:34] <Tm_T> I sense some 1337ism in there
[09:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: little ping to let you know I found an interesting backup/restore tool kde4 compatible :)
[09:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: not for now, but karmic, of course
[09:54] <Tonio_> apachelogger: as we discussed this.... k3b indeed needs the latest polkit-qt, so I may not be able to update the package waiting for karmic :/
[09:55] <Lure> Tonio_: can you ship newer polkit-qt in your ppa - I think jaunty testers would be great for karmic too
[09:56] <Tonio_> Lure: hum then I'll have to re-package policykit-kde.... that could break things
[09:56]  * Lure needs to upgrade old desktop first as my laptop does not have DVD writer ;-)
[09:56] <Tonio_> Lure: k3b works "decently" right now, so I prefer to wait for karmic to start all of this :)
[09:56] <Lure> Tonio_: I understand, things can get messy quickly
[09:57] <Tonio_> Lure: there are more important things in the process
[09:57] <Tonio_> Lure: I may have a look this we
[09:57] <Tonio_> Lure: but no promiss to do anything :)
[10:32] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm trying to package all this.... after all, why not :)
[11:14] <Riddell> RC due for release in a few hours
[11:16] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/RC/Kubuntu/Feedback  any more bugs we should mention or tidy up?
[11:17] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: keep the translations in .desktop files?  we're using gettext for translations now
[11:17] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: website login hasn't changed
[11:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know you may have other priorities, but could please look at bug 362005 ?
[11:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: looking for that konqueror and plugins thing....
[11:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect this may be due to konqueror preloaded sessions...
[11:28] <Tonio_> hum the option for autoscan at startup has been thrown away it seems... that's bad...
[11:32] <e-jat> is it AMR decodec has been fixed in RC ?
[11:33] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks for taking care of kdenlive - hope that Riddell does +1 too!
[11:34]  * Lure is just getting into this HD editing thing... ;-)
[11:34] <Tonio_> Lure: :)
[11:34] <Tonio_> hum plugins detection is performed with a binary : nspluginscan
[11:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: should we exec this at konqueror startup via a patch ?
[11:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: or fix the desktop file for "nspluginscan && konqueror" ?
[11:35]  * Lure thinks that kdenlive is becoming next KDE flagship app!
[11:35] <Riddell> +1 on kdenlive
[11:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'd investigate why the scan at startup has gone
[11:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, oki... afaik the option for autodetect on startup has just been droped... no idea if that kde4.2 or generally kde4 historical change.... looking
[11:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: uploading kdenlive, thanks
[11:36] <jussi01> Lure: why?
[11:37] <Riddell> "I'd investigate why"
[11:37] <a|wen_> Riddell: updated the feedback page with some bug numbers ... is there still .desktop problems; aren't they gone by now?
[11:38] <Lure> jussi01: because it is the best video editing app for linux - both in terms of usability as well as HD/AVCHD support
[11:39] <jussi01> Lure: ok, better than cinelerra/lumiera?
[11:39] <Lure> jussi01: and it is improving fast
[11:39] <Riddell> a|wen_: some languages don't have the translations
[11:40] <Lure> jussi01: cinelerra still has more options/effects, but it is more complicated to use and AVCHD does not play well there
[11:40] <jussi01> Lure: Ive not seen the changes to kdenlive, but if it is really good then we at ubuntu studio need to take another look at it ;)
[11:40] <a|wen_> Riddell: if they are in the original .desktop files they get imported to rosetta and used, right? ... so yeah, there is missing translations in some cases; but this has no technical reasons (or am i missing something)
[11:42] <neversfelde> uh, amavis should not ask wether to keep the old config or get maintainers new one :(
[11:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: the all code for scaning at konqueror startup has been droped....
[11:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's probably some long time ago change...
[11:44] <Riddell> a|wen_: it's just that some of the kde-l10n-xx packages don't have all the desktop_foo.po translations
[11:45] <Riddell> fixes are waiting in unapproved queue but won't go through rosetta until the lang-pack updates
[11:46] <ScottK> neversfelde: Actually amavisd-new tries very hard to avoid having that come up.
[11:46] <a|wen_> Riddell: okay, in that way ... then definitely worth mentioning there
[11:46] <ScottK> neversfelde: You should over-ride the package defaults in 50-user to make sure it's the way you want it.
[11:49] <neversfelde> ScottK: I deleted the ubuntu defaults, but I probalby should use 50-user
[11:53] <Tonio_> hum svn log on kde doesn't seem to work out well right now...
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I may have a patch for konqueror and plugin detection...
[12:33] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: this is for kdebase?
[12:33] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yup
[12:33] <JontheEchidna> Just this morning bug 354768 got an upstream fix, it could be nice if you could include it while you're at it
[12:36] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna, Riddell: here is the fix : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/152037/
[12:36] <Tonio_> currently building for tests though....
[12:37] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: will do, no pb :)
[12:37] <Riddell> Tonio_: why was scan at startup removed upstream?
[12:37] <JontheEchidna> :)
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: couldn't find the information in the svn log :/
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: probably was droped cause flash caused konqueror to be unstable, so that the user confirms he wants to use it.... dunno
[12:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: well at least, I have to test my patch, then you decide whatever you want... I won't make the decision on that point
[12:41] <Riddell> ask upstream then
[12:46] <Lure> Riddell: should we mention Digikam/kipi-plugins in RC announcement (even though that they are not on CD)?
[12:48] <Riddell> Lure: if you like
[12:48]  * Lure just noticed that Jaunty has same "release date" as my 3rd daughter ;-)
[12:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: my patch works, except it runs the scan at konqueror closing :)
[12:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: fixing this and let you know
[12:59] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: "little else needs said"?
[13:00] <allee> in systray amarok suggested to install flashplugin-nonfree and libdvdread3.   buglet, it should be flashplugin-installer and libdvdread4.
[13:00] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: it's amarok :P
[13:00] <JontheEchidna> hmm, though maybe not
[13:00] <Riddell> amarok usually has a lot to say about itself :)
[13:01] <ScottK> neversfelde: I'd recommend you redo it.
[13:01] <JontheEchidna> I also removed some personal issues/wishlist items that crept into the feedback page
[13:01] <neversfelde> ScottK: done, seems to work good
[13:01] <JontheEchidna> (for the known issues section)
[13:01] <neversfelde> thank you
[13:01] <ScottK> No problem
[13:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: thanks
[13:02] <Riddell> allee: hmm, that seems like a full sized bug
[13:03] <Riddell> I wonder why flashplugin got renamed
[13:03] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, they changed the package name for flashplugin at the last minute :/
[13:04] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: dunno, you could probably ask asac since he did it
[13:04] <ScottK> Tonio_: kdenlive accepted.
[13:05] <Tonio_> ScottK: many thanks :)
[13:05] <Riddell> bug 362276
[13:09] <rmrfslash> Does "final freeze in effect" mean that there will be no more changes to the code at all, or just no new features?
[13:10] <Lure> Riddell: add note about digikam/kipi-plugins - feel free to change/strip....
[13:10] <rmrfslash> Well, aside from any bug fixes
[13:11] <Lure> s/add/added/
[13:12] <ScottK> rmrfslash: It means only important fixes.
[13:14] <Lure> Tonio_: can you comment on bug 334052
[13:14] <rmrfslash> I see.
[13:14] <Lure> Tonio_: it seems there is patch with fix that works for several users
[13:15] <rmrfslash> I was on late last night to see if someone might be able to help me get my Verizon broadband modem (usb720) working.
[13:15] <rmrfslash> It was working with knetworkmanager in 8.10. Just plugged it in and I could connect no problem. Now though, with the NetworkManagement plasmoid I am having all srots of problems.
[13:17] <rmrfslash> Basically, when I plug the modem in, the NM plasmoid list is populated with an entry for an "Ovation U720" and sometimes a 1.1 root  hub
[13:17] <Tonio_> Lure: looking
[13:18] <rmrfslash> The only way I can connect now is w/ kppp
[13:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm about to upload a kdebase with fixes for bugs 349728 and 354768
[13:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: no pb for you ?
[13:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'd still really suggest you ask upstream why the code was removed in the first place
[13:18] <Riddell> dfaure is over on #kde-devel
[13:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki
[13:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay so appart from the french grammar, it seems the option never was in konqueror in fact.... strange I was pretty sure it was, but I was wrong...
[13:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: what do we do then ?
[13:28] <Tonio_> imho it is still a problem that you have to restart kde to see your plugin...
[13:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: end of the debate.... that's not seen as an issue on their side... we probably don't want to patch and maintain this forever (even if the patch is there and works like a charm...)
[13:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: better you decide what to do... I wouldn't mind pushing the patch, and eventually consider using kdirwatch + kds to do something on the config side in the future...
[13:48] <Tonio_> as suggested by one of the guys
[13:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: waiting for your opinion to drop/upload :)
[13:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'm generally for it
[13:53] <Riddell> so it gets my approval
[13:53] <Riddell> other release managers may disagree of course :)
[14:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: well let's upload and see what happens :)
[14:15] <Tonio_> _r1_: je viens de faire rentrer le dernier kdenlive dans jaunty.... ca corrige pas mal de crashes apparement :)
[14:26] <allee> Riddell: occurs at another place.  Konqueror informed me shockwave plugin not installed  -> then suggest to install flashplugin-nonfree too, instead of installer
[14:27] <quassel208> guys who knows where i can find a list of required packages for kde trunk? it wants to remove all kde packages on jaunty
[14:27] <allee> I assume I've to logout/in as flashplugin-nonfree was already installed
[14:27] <rgreening> allee: restart all konq
[14:28] <rgreening> konq cant tell it was installed
[14:28] <allee> rgreening: yeah, but that not the bug(let).  the buglet is to suggest  flashplugin-nonfree (transitional pkg) instead of flashplugin-installer
[14:29] <allee> s/that/that's/
[14:29] <rgreening> ah
[14:29] <rgreening> the konq patch needs updating then
[14:37] <_r1_> Tonio_: \o/
[14:37] <_r1_> Tonio_: I'll try it tonight
[14:37] <Tonio_> _r1_: kk
[14:55] <Riddell> allee: ok, I'll upload a fix to kde4libs
[14:55] <Riddell> quassel208: apt-get build-dep kde4libs
[14:56] <quassel208> is that everthing ?
[14:56] <Riddell> it's what kdelibs needs
[14:56] <quassel208> okay, because I wanna build is to /opt/kde-nightly dic
[15:08] <quassel208> Riddel can you give me to the cmake . DCMAKe prefix= or how do i typ that command ?
[15:10] <quassel208> because i going compile it to /opt/kde-nighly
[15:11] <Riddell> cmake /path/to/source -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/kde-nightly
[15:11]  * ScottK notes the current discussion on #kde-devel and hopes someone who understands about our Dolphin package is following it.
[15:13] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ohhhhhhhhh
[15:13] <apachelogger> you probably need to nuke the phonon support
[15:14] <Riddell> ScottK: he's got a self compiled KDE, probably didn't build against some relevant dependency
[15:14] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: intrepid's qt and phonon didn't share their includes, so qtscriptgenerator probably won't find the includes due to boooohy qmake
[15:14] <JontheEchidna> heh, this will be "fun"
[15:14] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks
[15:16] <Riddell> wow, what have they done to kscd
[15:24] <davmor2> Riddell: run it through with a big knife
[15:38] <quassel208_> Riddel, cmake /path/to/source -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/kde-nightly it doesnt work like that or needs it to be cmake /home/wesley/KDE/kdelibs -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/kde-nightly
[15:40] <ScottK> apachelogger is the 'make stuff install in /opt' expert.
[15:42] <quassel208_> Is he here ?
[15:43] <quassel208_> http://rafb.net/p/67hlh562.html
[15:43] <quassel208_> got a error
[15:45] <Riddell> quassel208: mkdir build; cd build; cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/kde-nightly ..
[15:51] <quassel208_> CMake Error at cmake/modules/MacroEnsureOutOfSourceBuild.cmake:17  this error i get
[15:52] <Riddell> quassel208: mkdir build; cd build; cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/kde-nightly ..
[15:52] <quassel208_> in the kdelibs dir ?
[15:54] <Riddell> mm hmm
[15:54] <quassel208_> keep getting error 17
[15:58] <Riddell> quassel208_: try #kde-devel then
[15:59] <quassel208_> to bad kde nigthly doesnt update anymore
[16:15] <apachelogger> actually
[16:15] <apachelogger> quassel208_: install amarok-nightly-tools
[16:15] <apachelogger> then execute neonmake in the source directory
[16:16] <apachelogger> ScottK: for some stuff it requires at times some env var magic to ensure it works
[16:17] <quassel208_> but doesnt neonmake build to amarok-nightly dir ?
[16:17] <apachelogger> no
[16:17] <apachelogger> it applies magic to build against whatever stack seems to be most appropriate to compile against
[16:18] <quassel208_> okay, do i need to login to kde nightly ?
[16:18] <JontheEchidna> are we supporting fiesty -> gutsy upgrades anymore?
[16:18] <JontheEchidna> both are eol'd
[16:20] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: nope
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> k, thought so. I just wanted to make sure because upgrade paths can be tricky
[16:23] <quassel208_> apachelogger, does kde-nightly get updated sometime ?
[16:24] <apachelogger> sometime whensome one fixes it somehow
[16:24] <quassel208_> ow, but with neonmake i can do it myself ?
[16:24] <apachelogger> and you should log into nightly
[16:25] <apachelogger> quassel208_: pretty much
[16:25] <apachelogger> besides the fact that kde-nightly builds are failing for a reason
[16:25] <apachelogger> so you need to resolve that reason yourself
[16:26] <apachelogger> which is kinda selfish because you could as well just be that someone who fixes kde-nightly builds somehow sometime
[16:26] <quassel208_> ow works that somehow the same ?
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> So I was looking through the bugs here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=language-pack-kde&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> doh, fail
[16:27] <apachelogger> you know
[16:27] <apachelogger> if I hate one thing about launchpad, it's the urls
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> anyway, there are a bunch of "erroneous package!" reports at the top. What's with those?
[16:29] <apachelogger> hahaha
[16:29] <apachelogger> that triager is awesome
[16:29] <apachelogger> rofl
[16:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: seems to be a mid-name-transition issue
[16:35] <JontheEchidna> Is it still a valid issue?
[16:36] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[16:36] <apachelogger> probably not
[16:36]  * jtholmes is away: for about 3 hours
[16:36] <apachelogger> the command indicates it was run on gutsy
[16:38]  * Tm_T slaps jtholmes for using public aways
[16:38] <ScottK> !away > jtholmes
[16:38]  * apachelogger likes public aways
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> lol. that triager did that to a bunch of other similar bug reports
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> like a lot of them
[16:41] <apachelogger> all of them :P
[16:41] <apachelogger> who do you get your 5-a-day count up? ... ask for more information on autogenerated bug reports where there is no more information :P
[16:49]  * JontheEchidna doesn't even bother with 5-a-day
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> I'd be like "what? Only 5?"
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> maybe if it was 50-a-day, then that might be a challenge
[16:53] <apachelogger> righto
[16:53] <apachelogger> so
[16:53] <apachelogger> I just read threw a study
[16:53] <apachelogger> stating that having a mac is more expensive than a pc
[16:54] <apachelogger> with reasons like you need to pay for mobile me to sync stuff while you can have that with windows live for free
[16:54] <apachelogger> (of course not mentioning that the windows live mesh stuff is also available for mac, so you could just as well use that and not buy mobile me :P)
[16:55] <apachelogger> also, for some reason in the scenario a family needs to upgrade their ilive for $99, while windows does not get upgraded
[16:56] <apachelogger> also good fun is that in the scenario they bought mac office for $149 rather than iwork for $69 (wich would compare better to the preinstalled ms works on the pc anyway)
[16:56] <apachelogger> anyway ... I guess it is enough tto say that MS financed the study ;-)
[17:24] <Tonio_> Lure: polkit-qt packaged, policykit-kde and k3b might be toonight
[17:54] <pinheiro> Riddell: ping
[17:59] <Riddell> hi pinheiro
[18:00] <Riddell> pinheiro: which planet?
[18:02] <pinheiro> kde
[18:02] <pinheiro> planet
[18:02] <pinheiro> after the day chages we get no bg
[18:02] <pinheiro> changes
[18:06] <Riddell> pinheiro: I see posts from today
[18:07] <pinheiro> yeah in post from today we get a background
[18:07] <pinheiro> but yesterdays post dont have
 anyways
[18:07] <pinheiro> [18:14] <Surkow|laptop> the thing that is wrong on the page
[18:07] <pinheiro> [18:14] <Surkow|laptop> is that the division with class "day"
[18:07] <pinheiro> [18:14] <Surkow|laptop> is not inside the division with ID "content"
[18:08] <pinheiro> so i have been told :P
[18:09] <Riddell> aaah
[18:09] <Riddell> hmm
 pinheiro, just tell ridel one of the day divisions is not in the content division
[18:33] <Riddell> someone please post http://www.kubuntu.org/news/9.04-rc if the announcement is out before I get back
[18:35] <Lure> Riddell: "beta information page"?
[18:36] <Lure> Riddell: title also says "Beta Ready for testing"
[18:39] <freinhard> some app crashes, apport doesn't show up. sometimes i get all crashes in a batch. how can i get the apport popup?
[18:44] <Lure> freinhard: apport is turned off for RC
[18:45] <Lure> freinhard: "ubuntu-bug <crash-file>"
[18:50] <freinhard> Lure: where do those crash files?
[18:51] <freinhard> what a sentence...
[18:51] <freinhard> where do those crash files end up?
[18:51] <a|wen-> freinhard: /var/crash
[18:52] <freinhard> hmm that folder isn't empty at all
[18:53] <freinhard> dr konqi doesn't exist anymore
[18:53] <freinhard> ?
[18:58] <freinhard> where to report bugs/whishes for ubuntu-bug? searching for ubuntu-bug on the net isn't that usefull :/
[18:58] <Lure> freinhard: ubuntu-bug does proper mapping to package and reports to Launchpad
[18:59] <Lure> ubuntu-bug is just a helper script arround apport
[19:11] <a|wen-> freinhard: "dpkg -S `which ubuntu-bug`" should tell you which package the script/executable belongs to
[19:38]  * apachelogger pokes JontheEchidna with bug 209873
[19:45]  * apachelogger continues poking JontheEchidna with http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc//devel/kdebase-workspace/kdebase-workspace-4.1.2-rootprivs.patch?view=markup
[20:15] <ScottK> So when is 4.2.3 out and are we ready?
[20:22] <seaLne> ooh impressive digikam now fires up and connects to my camera when i plugged it in (after clicking on that action in devices notifier)
[20:23] <neversfelde> ScottK: should be tagged on 29th of April, afaik
[21:00] <jtholmes> jtholmes is back now
[21:10] <Riddell> jtholmes: we missed you
[21:11] <jtholmes> thanks seems i pulled a no no  with the away message i thought i was doing it silently but it wasnt yikes
[21:13] <Riddell> jtholmes: I'm sure all will be forgiven.  just keep doing lots of useful testing :)
[21:14] <jtholmes> thanks again i love it
[21:15] <jtholmes> Riddell, can you show me how to do  /away  without disturbing others, i thought i did it right
[21:16] <jtholmes> Riddell, where do we need some testing now
[21:18] <Riddell> jtholmes: well we're just waiting on RC to be announced
[21:18] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/9.04-rc and https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/RC/Kubuntu need checking for sanity
[21:18] <Riddell> oh, there's the announce arrived now
[21:19] <jtholmes> great
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> w00t
[21:20] <Riddell> jtholmes: /away depends on client, I wouldn't expect it to post to the channels but maybe some clients do
[21:21] <Riddell> ?
[21:25] <Nightrose> seele: what is the status of amarok packages for you for the usability testing on saturday?
[21:26] <Nightrose> are there any packages that are usable for it for you?
[21:26] <Riddell> ~twitter update Kubuntu Release Candidate is out.  The shoe in the announce image on kubuntu.org is from seele.
[21:26] <kubotu> status updated
[21:26]  * Riddell giggles and runs off
[21:26] <Nightrose> haha
[21:26] <JontheEchidna> lol
[21:27]  * JontheEchidna goes to kubuntu.org to see the shoe
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> ohmy :P
[21:28]  * Nightrose doesn't see any shoes
[21:28] <Nightrose> :(
[21:29] <Nightrose> ahh there you go...
[21:29] <Nightrose> awesome :D
[21:29] <seele> Nightrose: i saw apachelogger had something for jaunty i need to test tonight
[21:29] <seele> but i dont know if it is useful or not
[21:30] <Nightrose> ok
[21:30] <seele> hmm
[21:30] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: got that error again so i can poke eean about it?
[21:30]  * seele flicks a gumband at Riddell's head
[21:30] <Nightrose> :P
[21:30] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: apachelogger sez I need to disable the phonon stuff
[21:31] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: ok can you do that? the thing is that seele wants to do some usability testing this weekend and it would be really handy to have packages for that
[21:31] <Nightrose> neon isn't working atm either....
[21:31]  * Nightrose grumbles
[21:32] <seele> the last neon build i have is pretty broken looking
[21:32]  * seele fires up virtualbox
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> The jaunty packages are working fairly well
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> they're in kubuntu-experimental
[21:52]  * seele crosses her fingers and upgrades...
[22:02] <asraniel> is it normal that my update notifier always tells me that i have 48 updates left? (and there are in fact only 6, which are blocked for 1 month now)
[22:03] <seele> ScottK: amarok usability testing this weekend, you should bring one of your girls if you dont have anything to do :)
[22:03] <ScottK> asraniel: If you have blocked updates, open konsole and try sudo apt-get dist-upgrade.
[22:03] <ScottK> seele: Perhaps.  I'm not sure what's on tap for the weekend yet.  That's a long term problem.
[22:03] <seele> ScottK: ok
[22:04] <seele> ScottK: oh, and there is some earth day event sunday on the captial lawn. it is supposed to be a nice day if you are looking for something to do then too :)
[22:04] <asraniel> ScottK: ok
[22:04] <asraniel> ScottK: oh, and there is some earth day event sunday on the captial lawn. it is supposed to be a nice day if you are looking for something to do then too :)
[22:04] <asraniel> ups sorry!
[22:04] <seele> i think a concert and some other things
[22:05] <asraniel> ScottK: didn't know that, thanks it seems to work (even though a little strange)
[22:05]  * ScottK nods at everyone
[22:05] <dtchen> yeah, i'm volunteering for that
[23:31]  * ScottK notes KDE bug 175687 and wonders if we want the patch for Jaunty?
[23:31]  * ScottK then heads out for the evening ...