[00:03] <mtaylor> FAIL
[00:03] <mtaylor> oh, NEVERMIND
[00:03] <mtaylor> sorry
[00:12] <rowinggolfer> any idea when the the site will be up again?
[00:12] <rowinggolfer> I am itching to do my first ever push
[00:12] <thumper> rowinggolfer: see the topic
[00:13] <thumper> rowinggolfer: it should be back shortly
[00:13] <rowinggolfer> thumper: thanks
[00:13] <thumper> rowinggolfer: I'm certain there will be some form of announcement here when it's back
[00:14] <rowinggolfer> cool
[00:14] <rowinggolfer> bad karma that my first ever push co-incided with maitenance
[00:14] <rowinggolfer> hope It wasn't something I did ;)
[00:15] <thumper> no, nothing to do with you
[00:15] <rowinggolfer> thanks thumper.
[00:27] <spm> FYI ALL. Most parts of LP are back up now. Regular tasks are still down while we verify all is a-ok.
[00:36] <thumper> joey: Expected back: 23.30 UTC 15nd April ???
[00:37] <rowinggolfer> that's correct. it is still yesterday as far as UTC is concerned
[00:37] <thumper> rowinggolfer: 15nd of April?
[00:38] <rowinggolfer> well I made a push
[00:38] <thumper> cool
[00:39] <rowinggolfer> thumper: this is the first code I have ever stuck on launchpad
[00:39] <thumper> rowinggolfer: congrats then
[00:39] <rowinggolfer> I am getting a "this branch has not been scanned yet"
[00:40] <thumper> rowinggolfer: it takes a minute or two
[00:40] <rowinggolfer> ok.
[00:40] <rowinggolfer> first time using bzr also.
[00:40] <thumper> rowinggolfer: we are working to reduce that time
[00:40] <thumper> rowinggolfer: have you used other DVCSs ?
[00:40] <rowinggolfer> launchpad is a beautiful experience though
[00:40] <joey> thumper, :-)  15th
[00:40] <rowinggolfer> thumper: only ever to grab code... never before to push
[00:42] <thumper> rowinggolfer: I'm pleased you like it
[00:42] <rowinggolfer> oh dear... my branch is empty
[00:42] <rowinggolfer> I have mucked up somewhere
[00:42] <thumper> rowinggolfer: locally, do a `bzr revno`
[00:42] <rowinggolfer> ok
[00:42] <thumper> rowinggolfer: and maybe a `bzr info`
[00:42] <thumper> or `bzr info -v`
[00:43] <thumper> that should say the number of revisions in the repository
[00:43] <thumper> revno will give you the number of mainline revisions in the branch
[00:43] <thumper> not sure what it says if the branch is empty
[00:43] <rowinggolfer> ah... I get 0 revisions
[00:44] <rowinggolfer> so I should touch all the files?
[00:44] <thumper> no
[00:44] <thumper> what exactly have you done?
[00:44] <thumper> can you give me your bzr command history?
[00:44] <rowinggolfer> ok. here's what I did
[00:44] <rowinggolfer> I made a directory and populated it with my code
[00:44] <rowinggolfer> I'm on ubuntu BTW
[00:45] <thumper> ok
[00:45] <rowinggolfer> I navigated into said directory
[00:45] <rowinggolfer> bzt inti
[00:45] <rowinggolfer> bzr init
[00:45] <rowinggolfer>  bzr push lp:~rowinggolfer/rowinggolfer/trunk
[00:45] <thumper> rowinggolfer: ok, you missed two steps:
[00:46] <thumper> bzr add
[00:46] <thumper> bzr commit
[00:46] <thumper> add recursively adds the files
[00:46] <thumper> and commit makes it happen
[00:46] <thumper> then push will work
[00:46] <rowinggolfer> thanks
[00:46] <thumper> (as you expect it to)
[00:46] <rowinggolfer> bzr commit has open a nano
[00:47] <thumper> yes it expects a commit message
[00:47] <thumper> normally I pass one in on the command line
[00:47] <rowinggolfer> so I simply save that
[00:47] <thumper> bzr commit -m "Initial import" or whatever
[00:47] <rowinggolfer> cool
[00:48] <rowinggolfer> ok pushing now
[00:48] <rowinggolfer> this is very exciting
[00:48] <rowinggolfer> makes me feel like a real geek
[00:48] <thumper> heh
[00:48] <rowinggolfer> many, many thanks for your help
[00:49] <thumper> rowinggolfer: np
[00:49] <rowinggolfer> BTW - is the launchpad podcast still ongoing?
[00:50] <thumper> I think so
[00:50] <thumper> mrevell does them
[00:50] <rowinggolfer> I haven't seen any turn up on my drive for a while....
[00:50] <thumper> I think there was a podcast just yesterday
[00:51] <rowinggolfer> ok... fault at my end then...
[00:51] <rowinggolfer> again.
[00:51] <rowinggolfer> :(
[00:52] <rowinggolfer> ok.. revision 1 pushed
[00:52] <rowinggolfer> I bid you goodnight
[00:52] <rowinggolfer> thanks again
[00:52] <thumper> rowinggolfer: good day here :)
[03:32] <poolie> sinzui: i didn't mean to be negative about RDF
[03:33] <poolie> it's potentially cool, it's just that if there's nothing that most people can do with it, it should be less prominent
[03:33] <poolie> like the thing about having invented cans but not yet the can opener
[03:33] <sinzui> poolie: I love RDF. I was an early subscriber to the list and I hacked on it at places I worked
[03:33] <poolie> (which was apparently true for some long time, like 30 years, i guess they banged on them with rocks or something)
[03:34] <poolie> or, more relevantly, like launchpad issuing openid but not yet accepting it
[03:34] <sinzui> poolie: We should publish enough information about projects so that it can be used to make a catalog of apps or people in a different way from how we made Launchapd.
[03:35]  * sinzui is also a jaded OpenID hacker
[03:36] <poolie> i don't have a problem with publishing it
[03:36] <poolie> it would be great if someone did make such a thing
[03:37] <poolie> i'm just disinclined to have links on the project homepage that when cilcked just cause the browser to ask you to save an xml file
[03:37] <sinzui> I agree. RDF is for a machine, not a person
[03:38] <jamesh> poolie: we implemented OpenID in Launchpad at the time when we had another service that needed to rely on it.
[03:38] <sinzui> we need an <link alternate> in the header to support RDF for machines.
[03:38] <jamesh> for shop.canonical.com
[03:38] <poolie> jamesh, if you mean "not because we misunderstood user demand" then i agree
[03:39] <poolie> sinzui: that would be good - and a blog.l.n post about how you can use it
[03:40] <poolie> like a script that will poke that rdf into freshmeat automatically would be nice
[03:40] <jamesh> poolie: well, prior to OpenID, the only shared auth solutions we had involved users entering their password on the remote site.  That was not an option for the shop site, since the site isn't directly managed by us.
[03:40] <poolie> though, hard, because fm insists on ugly passive voice phrasing for announcements
[03:41] <sinzui> I think we did misunderstand openid. We changed the user OpenID Identifiers because users see it as a social identity, which is not what was built in the first two rounds of development
[03:43] <sinzui> I would be happier if lazr changes and releases were sent to PyPI by RDF. I think publishing and distributing requires too much work between sites.
[03:44] <lifeless> poolie: I'm quite convinced that fm has gone insane
[03:45] <lifeless> poolie: they used to be far more relaxed
[03:45] <jamesh> I don't think I've bothered sending release announcements to freshmeat for a very long time
[03:45] <poolie> did you see their (apparently accidentally) snarky reply to bob in 1.13?
[03:45] <wgrant> I've always wondered about the purpose of the RDF stuff.
[03:46] <lifeless> poolie: yes, I was copied on that thread
[03:46]  * poolie hungers
[03:46] <sinzui> wgrant: I seems to be a broken promise, or one that has yet to be fulfilled.
[03:47] <jamesh> wgrant: it was originally going to be DOAP and FOAF exports.  Our data model didn't quite fit DOAP, which is why a different set of properties were used.  I think there is an equivalence in t he schema, but I could be wrong.
[03:48] <jamesh> the people/team RDF is pretty standard.
[03:48] <wgrant> Actually, I forgot about the team RDF. I used to use that a bit.
[03:48] <wgrant> But not the project stuff.
[03:48] <wgrant> I've never seen a use for that.
[03:49] <sinzui> wgrant: what did you use the team RDF for?
[03:49] <wgrant> sinzui: It was for a long time used for creating the REVU keyring.
[03:49] <wgrant> REVU would regularly grap the RDF for the keyring team and get the OpenPGP IDs.
[03:50] <wgrant> And later it was used for SSH public keys.
[03:52] <wgrant> Why is the list of proposed team members not batched like the active and former lists?
[03:53] <sinzui> The active members was batch to address an immediate concern that the page would not load
[03:53] <sinzui> And batching requires a hack if there is more than one batching list on a page
[03:53] <sinzui> The right answer would be to use ajax to get more items to add to the list
[03:54]  * sinzui want to do that for big lists of bugs and specs
[03:55] <sinzui> wgrant: The members lists should be searchable too.
[03:55] <sinzui> paging though launchpad-users is neigh impossible.
[03:56] <wgrant> sinzui: There are two batches on +members.
[03:56] <sinzui> wgrant: it is a hack
[03:56] <wgrant> It is.
[03:56] <wgrant> But why not the third one as well?
[03:57] <sinzui> I don't think I'll get to team member pages for two months. I wanted to do them this month, but guide project registration needs a lot of help
[03:57] <wgrant> I see.
[03:57] <sinzui> wgrant: because we need to hack a third batch navigator to work on the page
[03:58] <sinzui> The team page work was no scheduled. I just wanted to make the pages more usable
[03:58] <wgrant> sinzui: Sure, but I wouldn't think that would be too difficult once you'd done it once.
[03:58] <wgrant> Ah.
[03:58] <sinzui> none-the-less I agree that the inconsistency is a problem
[03:59] <wgrant> Teams like ~ubuntumembers have an obscenely large number of proposed members.
[03:59] <sinzui> kiko has me look go through that page when large teams are involved to encourage me to make them nice
[03:59] <wgrant> Heh.
[04:00] <sinzui> wgrant: right. I was going to hack on a bug to take the use to the proposed member review page from the team page
[04:01] <wgrant> I don't think I've ever seen /~launchpad-users/+mailing-list-subscribers not time out.
[04:01] <wgrant> sinzui: EPARSE
[04:02] <sinzui> bug 326998 would let the user  link from the list of recently applied to the approval page
[04:02] <wgrant> sinzui: And the applications page would be split out of +members?
[04:05] <sinzui> wgrant: I wanted to link to the screen that lets the admins do bulk/single approvals
[04:06] <wgrant> sinzui: That would be nice.
[05:12] <meoblast001> hi
[05:12] <meoblast001> launchpad sent me an email saying i wouldnt get anymore emails from my mailing list and told me i can corect it by clicking on of the dead links below
[05:16] <Ursinha> meoblast001, can you show me the dead links, please?
[05:16] <meoblast001> ok
[05:17] <meoblast001> https://lists.launchpad.net/mailman/confirm/mysticgalaxies/a37b41225f8fbfd6462b522672bc22a7b1966cfc
[05:17] <meoblast001> https://lists.launchpad.net/mailman/options/mysticgalaxies/meoblast@aol.com
[05:34] <Ursinha> meoblast001, what do you get when clicking on them?
[05:34] <meoblast001> Ursinha: the good old 404
[05:34] <Ursinha> (sorry the delay, pretty late over here :)
[05:34] <meoblast001> The requested URL /mailman/confirm/mysticgalaxies/a37b41225f8fbfd6462b522672bc22a7b1966cfc was not found on this server.
[05:36] <Ursinha> weird
[05:37]  * Ursinha looks at beuno 
[05:38] <meoblast001> well... if i could just be unbanned from my own mailing list that would be fine
[05:42] <spm> meoblast001: when did you get the email that asks to click on the link?
[05:42] <meoblast001> a while ago but i clicked the link the day of or the day after i got it
[05:42] <spm> meoblast001: like > 12 hours ago received and clicked?
[05:43] <meoblast001> probably
[05:43] <spm> probably? :-) I ask as we had major update about 4-5 hours ago. may *not* be related, but ... may.
[05:44] <meoblast001> oh no... it was >12 hours ago
[05:44] <meoblast001> i thought you meant did i click it > 12 hours after receiving it
[05:44] <meoblast001> got it on April 8
[05:48] <meoblast001> i need to go to bed
[05:48] <meoblast001> goodnight everyone... i'll be back another day
[05:59] <Ursinha> spm, maybe that link expired? no clue
[05:59] <Ursinha> brain not working
[05:59] <spm> Ursinha: possibly
[05:59] <spm> Ursinha: given how late it is your way? not surprised :-)
[05:59] <Ursinha> spm, writing the handover email :)
[06:00] <Ursinha> and reviewing projects
[06:00] <Ursinha> do you know what comes next?
[06:00] <Ursinha> the losas fun!
[06:00] <spm> Ursinha: you are an evil evil person. nice, but evil. :-P
[06:00]  * Ursinha laughs evilly
[06:00] <Ursinha> :P
[06:00] <Ursinha> lol
[06:01] <spm> see! QED. spm 1, Ursula 0.
[06:01] <Ursinha> hey... you're cheating
[06:01] <Ursinha> I have way more than that 0, where are my points
[06:01] <Ursinha> spm, oh, I see, that karma rebalancing took them away
[06:02]  * Ursinha is funny today
[06:02] <spm> Ursinha: nah. that was me. DELETE from karma where uid=ursinha; I was bored earlier.
[06:02] <Ursinha> lol
[06:02] <Ursinha> THAT is cheating
[06:03] <spm> it also won't work, but never mind that :-D
[06:34] <wgrant> spm: Is staging meant to be out of date?
[06:34] <johnf> anyone know if there is a problem with ppa building? I've had something in the queue for over 2 hours and now it doesn't even have an estimate. Normally I have things build in less 20 mins
[06:34] <spm> wgrant: probably - the reboots this morning wouldn't have helped
[06:34] <johnf> Is there an overall build status page?
[06:35] <spm> johnf: yes. we're having some buildd issues atm. No eta on a fix unf. :-(
[06:35] <wgrant> spm: I have data on there from 5 days ago, and it is running db-devel from the 10th or so AFAICT...
[06:36] <wgrant> johnf: https://launchpad.net/builders/
[06:36] <johnf> wgrant: thanks. I'll go blog that as my google searching discovered nothing
[06:37] <wgrant> I wonder if I can find a link to it.
[06:37] <wgrant> IIRC I was only able to get to it from the breadcrumbs of a builder, which I got to from a build.
[07:49] <maxb> window level all
[10:03] <thp> i have a permission problem on launchpad
[10:04] <thp> i can access bug 362045, but not but 347483. (the former is a duplicate of the latter)
[10:05] <wgrant> thp: Both are private bugs, because the crash dumps may have confidential data. I'll check the latter to see if it's appropriate to open it up.
[10:06] <wgrant> Oh, only the latter is public.
[10:06] <wgrant> s/public/private/
[10:06] <wgrant> thp: You can now see bug #347483
[10:06] <thp> wgrant: thanks :)
[10:29] <rowinggolfer> hey popey
[10:29] <popey> hello
[10:30] <rowinggolfer> I have pushed a project onto launchpad
[10:30] <rowinggolfer> if you get a minute, do tell me if I have fouled up in any way
[10:30] <popey> url?
[10:30] <rowinggolfer> http://launchpad.net/rowinggolfer
[10:31] <popey> did you want rowinggolfer as the project name? would it not make more sense to be called openmolar?
[10:31] <rowinggolfer> popey: yes it would... I screwed up
[10:31] <popey> heh
[10:32] <popey> I dont know if it's possible to rename a project on launchpad, you might need the assistance of a launchpad admin
[10:32]  * popey pokes mrevell 
[10:32] <mrevell> hello
[10:32] <mrevell> :)
[10:32] <rowinggolfer> I asked in here... and was told to wipe it and start again
[10:32] <popey> ah
[10:32]  * mrevell reads up
[10:32] <rowinggolfer> hey mrevell
[10:32] <mrevell> rowinggolfer: Who told you to wipe and it start again?
[10:32] <rowinggolfer> popey: I am delighted your podcast has restarted. I was worried
[10:33] <popey> thanks rowinggolfer
[10:33] <rowinggolfer> mrevell: I can't remember. it was over a month ago
[10:33] <mrevell> rowinggolfer: To rename a project, you'll need to file a request at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[10:33] <popey> excellent, that easier
[10:34] <rowinggolfer> mrevell: thanks!!
[10:34] <mrevell> np :)
[10:34] <rowinggolfer> ah... that's ringing bells now
[10:34] <popey> \o/
[10:34] <rowinggolfer> that is where I asked
[10:34] <rowinggolfer> let me find where
[10:34] <mrevell> oh really?
[10:35] <popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/62436
[10:36] <popey> calvin misunderstood by the look of it
[10:36] <popey> confusion between your username and the project name
[10:37] <rowinggolfer> I asked the wrong question?
[10:37] <popey> no, not imo
[10:38] <danilos> rowinggolfer: we'll have admins rename the project for you
[10:38] <rowinggolfer> danilos: many thanks
[10:38] <mrevell> rowinggolfer: I'm sorry no one picked up on Calvin B's erroneous answer
[10:39] <rowinggolfer> can I just commend you fellas on a wonderfully designed code hosting site
[10:39] <rowinggolfer> this is my first ever commit to anything of this type
[10:39] <mrevell> thumper, jml, abentley, rockstar ^^^ See rowinggolfer's props for Code Hosting :)
[10:40] <mrevell> thanks rowinggolfer :) If you need any help we're here most of the time
[10:40] <rowinggolfer> mrevell: thumper helped me out last night.
[10:40] <mrevell> because we're spread across the world, there's usually someone here :)
[10:40] <rowinggolfer> thanks.
[10:40] <rowinggolfer> good luck with july 31st BTW
[14:13] <lukeW> hi - is it possible to edit a bug comment... I inadvertently left a phone number (via an email signature reply) and I'd like to remove this
[14:13] <beuno> lukeW, you can't edit it
[14:14] <beuno> but you can ask for an admin to remove it
[14:14] <beuno> in: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[14:14] <lukeW> okay .. thank beuno
[14:14] <lukeW> *thanks
[14:15] <intellectronica> lukeW: bear in mind that by the time you get to remove the comment, emails with bug notifications will have already been sent. that makes your situation either more or less serious, depending on how you judge it
[14:16] <lukeW> intellectronica; it's okay really - i just don't want the phone number on the web (via searches etc)
[14:23] <lukeW> will editing ever be introduced to launchpad?
[14:23] <intellectronica> lukeW: no
[14:23] <lukeW> I suppose it could lead to confusion?  Is that the reason it's not allowed?
[14:24] <intellectronica> lukeW: exactly. once you've said something and people have added other comments, potentially referring to yours, having your previous comment removed can be confusing
[14:25] <lukeW> the ability to make minor edits could be useful - if only for the archive / web version
[14:25] <intellectronica> lukeW: maybe, maybe, one day in the very distant future we'll have an undo available for a few minutes after posting, like you get in gmail now
[14:25] <lukeW> ah okay
[14:25] <lukeW> i still haven't worked out how to access the gmail undo
[14:26]  * beuno stares into the future
[14:26] <lukeW> lol
[14:26]  * lukeW sees the future stare back
[14:26] <intellectronica> lukeW: you turn it on in the "labs" tag in the yellow settings box
[14:26] <lukeW> ah okay
[14:26] <lukeW> i'll do that
[14:26] <lukeW> will be quite useful
[14:37] <wgrant> Are product/distribution/sourcepackagename changes going to be interleaved in 2.2.4?
[14:38] <beuno> wgrant, interleaved with what?
[14:38] <beuno> and hi  :)
[14:39] <wgrant> beuno: With the comments, like a few change types were in 2.2.3.
[14:40] <wgrant> Ah, I mean in bugs.
[14:40] <beuno> good question
[14:40]  * beuno stares at gmb 
[14:51] <danilos> beuno: stop those cross-eyed looks!
[15:02] <gmb> wgrant: You mean as in "I rename my project, that gets reflected in its bug tasks' activity logs"?
[15:03] <wgrant> gmb: No, as in "I retarget this task from launchpad to malone"
[15:03] <gmb> wgrant: Oh, thank fuck for that. :)
[15:04] <gmb> wgrant: Er, if we have time. It's not a big change; I might get time to land it in week 4.
[15:04] <wgrant> gmb: Although that would certainly be nice, it would certainly complicate everything.
[15:05] <gmb> wgrant: More than somewhat, yes :). Although in terms of actual code it's probably not all that hard to do.
[15:07] <wgrant> gmb: Anyway, I was going to bed. Thanks.
[15:07] <gmb> np.
[15:53] <johnf> do packages in a ppa have higher preferences than packages in ubuntu when the ppa is building?
[15:57] <al-maisan> johnf: it's not as simple, the build scoring algorithm uses a number of factors
[15:57] <johnf> al-maisan: is it documented anywhere?
[15:57] <al-maisan> johnf: I do not believe so.
[15:58] <james_w> johnf: you mean when installing build-dependencies?
[15:58] <johnf> james_w: yes
[15:58] <james_w> my guess is no
[15:59] <al-maisan> johnf: sorry, I misunderstood you ; I thought you meant the scoring of builds
[15:59] <johnf> ie if my ppa has ruby-dev 1.8.6 and ubuntu has  ruby-dev 1.8.7 and I have another package with build-depends on ruby-dev. Will it use ruby-dev from my ppa even though it has a lower version  number
[16:00] <cprov> johnf: no, it will use the highest version.
[16:00] <johnf> hmm ok looks like I'll have to increment the epoch
[16:02] <cprov> johnf: and if we are talking about exactly same versions, we can't reliably predict which version will be installed (as far as I can tell)
[16:02] <johnf> hmm https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA?action=show&redirect=PPAQuickStart#Dependencies seems to indicate it will prefer the PPA
[16:02] <cprov> johnf: ubuntu archive comes first in the buildd sources_list, but I'm not sure if it matters.
[16:03] <johnf> cprov: so there isn't an apt-preferences for the ppa?
[16:03] <johnf> Will be wonderful when this is all open source, then I could just go check for myself :)
[16:03] <cprov> johnf: no, in the help there is no *explicit* indication that PPA build-deps are preferred
[16:07] <cprov> johnf: I can't find anyone to answer that quickly, could you please open a question in the soyuz product about it ?
[16:07] <cprov> johnf: it's a nice FAQ candidate.
[16:08] <johnf> cprov: sure
[16:08] <cprov> johnf: thank you.
[16:11] <maxb> Hmm. If you have exactly the same version in the Ubuntu primary archive and an Ubuntu PPA, I think the answer is You're Doing It Wrong :-)
[16:12] <cprov> maxb: yes, yes, but I'm curious about which version will be installed. If it's somehow predictable either by apt or sbuild.
[16:13] <maxb> If it's up to apt, it'll be the first one in sources.list afaik
[16:13] <cprov> maxb: right, I vaguely remember of reading it
[16:14] <cprov> in this case, primary archive always goes first (you can tell by looking at the buildlog)
[16:15] <johnf> The example use case is say I need ruby 1.8.6 for intrepid (which has 1.8.7). I can upload this to my PPA and it will build
[16:16] <johnf> but then if I upload libmysql-ruby to my ppa it will build against the primary ruby instead of the ppa ruby. Well I assume it will anyway. Giving it a quick test now
[16:18] <maxb> johnf: You really need such a specific version?
[16:18] <johnf> maxb: In this specific case I'm patching ruby with the enterpirse edition patches which only apply against 1.8.6-p286. So yes very specific :)
[16:21] <maxb> Perhaps you should package it as ruby-ee, and declare a conflict on the standard ruby packages
[16:23] <johnf> maxb: I tried that initially but then I need to create new packages -ee packages for every single package I need that depends on ruby. Rather than just copying them into my ppa.
[16:24] <johnf> At this stage I think I'll bump the epoch on my ruby package to make sure it becomes the builddep
[16:24] <maxb> johnf: Is this PPA just for you personally, or for a wider audience?
[16:25] <johnf> maxb: Just for me
[16:25] <maxb> Hmm, actually, why would you need to create new packages?
[16:25] <maxb> And for that matter, why would you need to copy them into your PPA, even?
[16:25] <johnf> so right now libmysql-ruby depends on ruby1.8-dev
[16:26] <johnf> If my ppa packages where prefered I could just copy it into the ppa and it would build against my ruby packages
[16:26] <johnf> I can achieve that by adding an epoch version I suppose
[16:27] <johnf> but if I did the -ee method I would need to change the build depends for libmysql-ruby to depend on -ee
[16:27] <johnf> or am I missing some easier way of doing this/
[16:27] <johnf> ?
[16:27] <maxb> Hmm, no, you would have to change the build-depends.
[17:25] <jere21> Hi, I accidentally created a second ppa. Can i delete it?
[17:27] <Ursinha> jere21, hi, you can ask the deletion file a question in answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-project
[17:27] <Ursinha> again
[17:27] <jere21> thx!
[17:28] <Ursinha> jere21, hi, you can ask the deletion, just file a question in https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-project
[17:28] <Ursinha> sorry the messed answer :)
[17:28] <jere21> np :-)
[17:28] <Ursinha> jere21, no problem :)
[18:16] <scott_ev> so, who lost 75% of their points besides me
[18:17] <scott_ev> change the point system, fine, just don't take peoples points  away
[18:18] <scott_ev> I WAS spending 20 hours a week triaging bugs....no more
[18:19] <scott_ev> there are plenty of places I can help without getting messed  around
[18:22] <matsubara> scott_ev: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/karma-where-did-mine-go
[18:23] <scott_ev> oh, I've read it and it's BS
[18:23] <exarkun> You should get a 3x karma multiplier for reading that page
[18:23] <scott_ev> thange the point system, fine, but don't take peoples points away
[18:24] <scott_ev> I went from 6500 - 1900
[18:38] <maxb> scott_ev: If everyone's karma was adjusted down, that's fair, no?
[18:43] <scott_ev> it just feels wrong to take away.  change the rules, ok
[18:44] <scott_ev> maxb: did you loose 75%?
[18:44] <maxb> Don't know what I had before.
[18:45] <scott_ev> all I know is that since I don't work anymore, I spend most of my time helping in launchapd and I got screwed
[18:45] <scott_ev> someone will take my place
[18:53] <rockstar> scott_ev, what did you karma really provide for you?
[18:54] <scott_ev> a sense of accomplishment.  goals to set and accomplish
[18:54] <scott_ev> and something to show when I interview for ubuntu membership
[18:55] <intellectronica> scott_ev: your frustration is understood, but consider that we too like to have our work appreciated, and this sort of attitude is kinda' frustrating
[18:56] <scott_ev> change the rules, fine.  but don't take points away that have already been given
[18:56] <scott_ev> it's crap
[18:56] <intellectronica> scott_ev: karma is relative, but appears to be absolute, and because of that, the change looks kinda' scary, but consider that when you, say, interview for ubuntu membership, your karma will be evaluated in relation to others, not as an absolute
[18:57] <intellectronica> scott_ev: karma is relative, the rules for behaviour in this community aren't. please stop
[18:57] <scott_ev> stop what, voicing an opinion?
[18:57] <scott_ev> i don't think so
[18:58] <intellectronica> scott_ev: your opinion is very welcome, that's what this channel is about. but you're expected to voice it in a civilised and friendly manner. even when you are frustrated
[18:59] <scott_ev> I believe I have
[18:59] <scott_ev> what?  you're upset that I used the worr crap?
[18:59] <scott_ev> sorry
[19:00] <intellectronica> scott_ev: and finally, yes, this was a mistake, and it was corrected. it _is_ annoying when that happens, and we work very hard to try and make sure it doesn't. but when it does, it's nice if we can get your understanding
[19:01] <scott_ev> ok, I'll leave you to it. There are more productive things I can do with my time that will be appreciated
[19:02] <intellectronica> scott_ev: indeed. and once again, apologies for the karma problems on behalf of the launchpad team
[19:03] <scott_ev> well think things through and maybe warn people that changes are  comming.  I woke up to find 75% of my karma gone with no explaination for 2 days
[19:04] <exarkun> intellectronica: I wonder why it was a "mistake" and how the change was a "correction"
[19:04] <intellectronica> scott_ev: yes, that's definitely one of the lessons to learn from this
[19:05] <exarkun> (I don't think I pay as much attention to my karma as scott_ev does to his, but I pay /some/ attention, and I am stimulated negatively when it goes down due to no actions on my part)
[19:05] <scott_ev> I'm nit so frustrarted that it happened; it's more in the 'how' and why.  you just don't take things from people, period...not when they are volunteers
[19:05] <intellectronica> exarkun: have you read danilo's blog about this? i think it clarified it quite well. the most important thing to take from it, i guess, is that karma is relative, even though it may seem absolute
[19:05] <exarkun> intellectronica: I did, and it didn't really address the question I'
[19:05] <exarkun> m trying to ask
[19:05] <exarkun> Since karma doesn't actually /mean/ anything, I wonder what the motivation for using it to make me feel bad is.
[19:05] <javierder> joey, ping
[19:06] <joey> and hi here jacob
[19:06] <joey> er javierder
[19:06] <joey> lol
[19:06] <joey> tab tab tab tab atab
[19:06] <exarkun> The only thing I could derive from danilo's blog post is that the lp developers thought they had done something "unfair" in granting too much karma.
[19:06] <exarkun> But since karma /doesn't/ mean anything, I wonder how "unfair" it really could be.
[19:07] <exarkun> Is it that other people who weren't participating while karma was being inflated might feel cheated because they have to do more work to catch up to people who were?
[19:08] <LarstiQ> exarkun: I use karma to get an idea of how involved someone is with a project
[19:09] <exarkun> LarstiQ: It seems to me like it is a value which is deceptive in the indication it gives of that.
[19:10] <exarkun> Even ignoring the likelihood that it is very easily gamed, how do you know how much value to assign to a point of karma?  Perhaps there is a correct way to do that which I am just not aware of.
[19:12] <intellectronica> exarkun: after the fix, karma is more reflective of a user's participation than it was before _in relation to other users_
[19:12] <LarstiQ> exarkun: relative to the other people active in the project
[20:59] <kkubasik> bac:  hey, hows it going?
[20:59] <bac> kkubasik: hi.  things are going well.
[21:04] <MTecknology> Is it ever going to be possible to allow users that aren't in a team to sign up for the mailing list?
[21:04] <MTecknology> I noticed this in the new layout "Policy:  You must be a team member to subscribe to the team mailing list." and was wondering if I can make that change :)
[21:05] <beuno> MTecknology, it's...  complicated
[21:05] <beuno> maybe
[21:05] <beuno> but it opens up spam again
[21:07] <MTecknology> ok - so the functionality exists, but it's not open in order to prevent spam?
[21:07] <beuno> no, it doesn't exist
[21:07] <beuno> because it creates all sorts of problems
[21:07] <beuno> we do want to make it easier
[21:07] <MTecknology> ok
[21:07] <beuno> so we'll figure out something eventually
[21:08] <MTecknology> good 'nuf for me :) - :P
[21:08] <MTecknology> thanks
[21:08] <beuno> welcome'
[22:02] <scott_ev> hello whoever you are
[22:11] <ikus060> Hi, it's my first time with launchpad and I want to register a new project. May anybody give me some help ?
[22:11] <beuno> ikus060, sure. What seems to be the problem?
[22:11] <ikus060> So far, i'm looking to 'upload' my code into a bazaar branch
[22:12] <ikus060> The branche is https://code.launchpad.net/~ikus060/libnotify-mozilla/trunk
[22:12] <beuno> ikus060, do you have your branch already locally?
[22:12] <beuno> ikus060, I see
[22:12] <ikus060> I don,t think so cause it's the first time i'm using bazaar
[22:12] <beuno> you haven't pushed to the branch yet
[22:12] <ikus060> nope
[22:12] <ikus060> this is what I'm trying to do
[22:12] <beuno> do you have the branch ready locally?
[22:13] <beuno> ikus060, also, have you seen: https://help.launchpad.net/BzrHowto
[22:13] <ikus060> well .. I have the code ready, but I don't have any 'branchs' setup locally
[22:13] <beuno> ikus060, that page explains how to do it
[22:13] <ikus060> great ..
[22:14] <ikus060> I will look into it and come back in case of problem
[22:14] <ikus060> Thanks
[22:22] <ikus060> beuno : I guess there is some information missing : To interact with launchpad in any way, you must have an account and a SSH key registered, so make sure you have both.
[22:23] <jcastro> barry: it seems my permissions to the mailing list approval queue has been removed. Has this responsibility been given to someone else? (woohoo?)
[22:26] <beuno> jcastro, I think it's broken
[22:26] <beuno> I can't access it either
[22:26] <beuno> possibly related to another bug bac is working on
[22:27] <bac> jcastro: barry has landed the fix to that bug but it isn't on edge yet
[22:27] <bac> jcastro: it only happens when the team is private and you aren't a member
[22:30] <jcastro> ah ok, cool, thanks guys
[22:35] <ikus060> Hi, Is there a HowTo tu upload download file ?
[22:40] <barry> bac, jcastro hopefully tomorrow ;)
[22:42] <bac> ikus060: this page should help:  https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/FileDownloads
[22:42] <ikus060> bac: thanks
[22:46] <thumper> morning
[23:09] <savvas> does anyone know why bug 136435 shows an error on the upstream debian bug tracker?
[23:09] <savvas> "Launchpad couldn't import bug #454679 from Debian Bug tracker."
[23:11] <tonyyarusso> Hi, I uploaded a system hardware report through System>Admin>System Testing on Ubuntu 9.04 beta, and now I need to post a corrective comment on it.  Where would I find that?
[23:12] <beuno> tonyyarusso, it's not available on the UI, unfortuntly
[23:12] <beuno> you can submit it agian though
[23:12] <tonyyarusso> heh, okay
[23:12]  * tonyyarusso made an idiot mistake
[23:13] <beuno> tonyyarusso, happens to the best of us  :)\
[23:14] <savvas> tonyyarusso: are you using hardy? because in jaunty there's no commenting anymore :)
[23:14] <jkakar> Oooh, I just had my first taste of the AJAX-y "Mark bug as duplicate" feature.  Very nice!
[23:14] <jkakar> As time goes on, more and more of the surprises from Launchpad are making me smile, instead of frown.  Nice work. :)
[23:14] <savvas> I'm getting an oops while trying to search for bugs :\ OOPS-1202EB388
[23:14] <beuno> jkakar, you're comment almost makes me cry
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> savvas: No, it's jaunty, but it has comment boxes on each step on the tests.
[23:15] <jkakar> beuno: :)
[23:17] <savvas> tonyyarusso:  I have no idea then, mine just asks for my email address that I used to register myself at Launchpad :) the package is checkbox-gtk and I'm using 0.7.1 at the moment, maybe I'm outdated :)
[23:24] <kirkland> i'm trying to convert https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/362427 into a question
[23:32] <meoblast001> hi
[23:32] <meoblast001> by any chance was i removed from the "do not send" list on my mailing list?
[23:32] <meoblast001> if not i think i'm going to file a bug