/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/04/16/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

=== ember_ is now known as ember
asacgood morning :)07:20
AJNpa80http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=112705107:25
maxbwindow level all07:49
seb128hello there08:26
pittiGood morning08:37
didrocks morning seb128 & pitti08:40
seb128hello didrocks pitti08:40
pittihey didrocks08:41
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seb128hey chrisccoulson09:34
chrisccoulsonhi seb12809:34
seb128chrisccoulson: alex said he thinks he knows what is wrong with your nautilus bug09:34
seb128he will have a look today apparently09:35
chrisccoulsonthanks :)09:35
seb128chrisccoulson: in fact he just fixed it to svn09:37
seb128http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/nautilus?view=revision&revision=1518409:38
chrisccoulsonthanks, i just noticed the e-mail i got from the bugzilla09:38
chrisccoulsoni'll test the change later09:38
=== fta_ is now known as fta
mvoseb128: hm, we do no longer enable 81_gnome-app-install in nautilus for the mime search stuff?12:47
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
didrockspitti: I added -d to your debclean change in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr (contrary to debian/clean rules, debclean checks by defaut if build-deps are installed)13:03
pittiwell, that's usually a good idea, isn't it?13:07
didrockspitti: not sure, I often use intrepid to build with pbuilder13:09
didrockspitti: so, I don't have the build-deps installed. And I only use debian/rules clean to update debian/control from debian/control.in :)13:09
seb128mvo: no, why?13:12
mvoseb128: not having it means we can no longer do mime searches - or was that replaced with some different functionatliy?13:18
seb128mvo: basically nobody ported the patch when nautilus has been ported to gio (it was not trivial and I've been too busy to work on that)13:19
mvook. have a look, I think its a nice feature13:20
seb128mvo: the current version can use *kit to install packages if available but since we don't have that installed by default ... any change planned around that for karmic?13:20
seb128mvo: gnome-control-center can also installed theme engines if required using that13:21
mvoseb128: is it using the dbus desktop api for this? having that would be pretty easy13:21
seb128mvo: look at the code or ask to james_w he fixed some bugs about that recently but I think so yes13:21
mvoseb128: the problem with PK has not changed, it can not install  packages that require interaction13:21
seb128mvo: well, for the gnome-control-center theme engines or nautilus applications cases that should be no issue13:22
seb128no?13:22
james_wmvo: yeah, it uses dbus13:22
james_wsession bus13:22
seb128hey james_w ;-)13:22
james_whi seb12813:22
mvoif it uses the session bus api, then that (currenly) requires the whole gnome PK desktop apps, we should split that13:23
seb128mvo: can't we get it installed and used for easy packages and have it bailing an error for debconf cases?13:23
mvoits doing that right now (erroring out)13:23
seb128mvo: we will not change that for jaunty anyway, we can discuss that at uds (again?) if you want ;-)13:23
seb128otherwise I will let you decide if you think that we should get the gnome-app-install patch back13:24
seb128it's still there but not applied because the code changed, ie just need somebody adapting it to the new codebase13:24
mvoseb128: the g-a-i patch seems to be pretty small, I look into that and if its ok I think its a canidate for jaunty-updates13:24
mvoseb128: for karmic we should provide the dbus session api in one way or the other13:25
seb128mvo: would be great, thanks ;-)13:25
pittididrocks: I see13:51
seb128didrocks: I would argue if that you are running intrepid you can't really test jaunty upgrades though13:56
huatshello everyone14:03
kenvandine_wkNafallo: ping14:05
tseliotasac: this post suggests that I keep bugging you until 0.7.1 is available (in PPA for hardy in my case): http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/04/16/you-will-upgrade-to-networkmanager-071/14:06
kenvandine_wkmorning rickspencer314:10
asactseliot: i have the port for hardy somewhere. just need to get it up14:14
tseliotasac: great :-)14:14
rickspencer3good morning kenvandine_wk, et al14:15
kenvandine_wkNafallo: i did some gajim hacking last night... looks like the indicator stuff isn't what's broken in gajim14:16
pittihey rickspencer314:16
seb128hey rickspencer314:16
kenvandine_wkNafallo: it never calls the notify method, at least for messages... only seems to for contact_connected and new_mail14:16
kenvandine_wkNafallo: so we also don't get notifications for messages... which we did before14:16
kenvandine_wkNafallo: didn't follow it back far enough to see why not...14:17
rickspencer3pitti: is it too late to make a change to Jaunty?14:17
rickspencer3just one more package?14:17
rickspencer3j/k14:17
kenvandine_wkhehe14:17
pittirickspencer3: you have to convince slangasek, but for new packages, definitive "yes"14:18
pittior, if it's universe, convince motu-release :)14:18
* kenvandine_wk has a laptop with intel that xorg doesn't work in the installer14:18
rickspencer3perhaps we could get calc to upload OO 3.014:18
kenvandine_wks/laptop/netbook14:18
rickspencer3I mean 3.114:18
rickspencer3it's only like 50 megs bigger compressed14:18
pittirickspencer3: what did you have for breakfast?14:18
pittiI want it too!14:18
* pitti throws some candies at rickspencer314:18
kenvandine_wki am terrified of OOo changes14:19
kenvandine_wkthey are never easy...14:19
rickspencer3seriously though, I'm wondering if Hugh's upgrade report may be the norm14:19
seb128we should just ship abiword ang gnumeric14:19
seb128less issues and CD spaces for translations ;-)14:19
kenvandine_wkseb128: oh yeah!14:19
rickspencer3seb128: put it on the UDS schedule14:19
rickspencer3:)14:19
kenvandine_wkrickspencer3: we'll never win that... it is insane14:20
seb128rickspencer3: you want to get me into trouble at uds, don't you? ;-)14:20
rickspencer3kenvandine_wk: I know, I was joking14:20
kenvandine_wkrickspencer3: 3 years ago i tried doing that in foresight... i literally got hate mail about it14:20
rickspencer3actually, OO is very important to Ubuntu and our users14:20
rickspencer3lol14:20
* kenvandine_wk likes google docs14:20
kenvandine_wki saw we ship prism wrappers for google docs :-D14:20
rickspencer3I think that users expect a bloated and full featured Office-like package14:21
kenvandine_wkmuch easier to maintain... and faster to build :)14:21
rickspencer3and without, we wouldn't seem like a real platform14:21
rickspencer3:(14:21
kenvandine_wkhehe14:21
kenvandine_wktrue14:21
rickspencer3I think it would be sweet if someone did for OO what someone did for Netscape Navigator14:21
kenvandine_wkand OOo has gotten better14:21
kenvandine_wkisn't novell kind of doing that?14:22
kenvandine_wkor is that more out of desparation?14:22
pittiyeah, splitting the apps is on the plan14:22
rickspencer3well .. they are splitting them to make it all easier to build14:22
kenvandine_wkrickspencer3: easier to maintain as well... and easier for distributors14:23
rickspencer3but they are not extracting the 10% of the code which is the most valuable and making that lighter and faster14:23
kenvandine_wkall and all a win14:23
kenvandine_wkrickspencer3: true14:23
rickspencer3what Novel is doing is super valuable though14:23
kenvandine_wkhey tedg14:23
tedgkenvandine_wk: good morning14:24
mvoseb128: bug #362307 (includes the patch) - somehow I missed that this got dropped, otherwise I would have tried to get to it earlier14:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 362307 in nautilus "does not support g-a-i mime search anymore" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36230714:26
seb128mvo: thanks14:26
seb128mvo: that looks fine to me, maybe try asking slangasek if that can go between rc and jaunty?14:28
rickspencer3jcastro: 2nd page of digg?14:33
mvoseb128: thanks for the review, I will think about but my gut feeling is that its ok to do a sru for it14:35
seb128mvo: I've an another sru pending for nautilus but I can get both in the same upload14:39
mvocool, thanks - let me know if I can do anything to make your life easier (like putting it into bzr ;)14:40
seb128mvo: yes please commit to bzr so I don't forget about it ;-)14:40
seb128the package is already in bzr so you just have to push the change14:40
mvoseb128: ok14:41
seb128thanks14:41
didrocksseb128: that's true, just running in VB currently. I will fix this for next session, but still wait for alpha 3 maybe to not having whole day just to set up/fix things14:41
seb128didrocks: alpha3? rc is this week you are lagging ;-)14:42
didrocksseb128: Really? O_o kidding, I'm talking for next release of course :p14:43
seb128well if you test in vm you can probably build in the vm too no?14:43
seb128otherwise how do you now it build with current unstable versions?14:44
didrocksseb128: I'm thinking about switch to kvm, because VB is not very suited for that.14:44
didrocksseb128: pbuilder14:44
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
didrocksand with that, I'm sure to not forget some build-deps14:44
didrocksdon't be afraid, I also testbuild, testinstall and trying the app before getting some sponsorship :)14:45
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3
Nafallokenvandine_wk: kewl. let's look at it tomorrow when I have a day off :-)14:58
kenvandine_wkok14:59
kenvandine_wkNafallo: i hadn't even noticed i wasn't getting the notifications.. although i only use gajim for testing :)14:59
Nafallokenvandine_wk: I'm getting the usual bubbles for notifications still.15:00
kenvandine_wkfor messages?15:00
kenvandine_wki get them for new mail and contacts connecting15:01
kenvandine_wknot for new messages15:01
seb128didrocks: it's just weird that you work on a distribution you don't use15:01
seb128didrocks: it's lot of extra work15:01
didrocksseb128: the extra work is when running autotools, yes :/15:05
seb128didrocks: no, the extra work is all the time, when starting the vm, when trying in the vm rather than normal use, when using pbuilder rather than just building15:05
seb128I've been doing cross distro builds, there is a reason why I do so few debian updates nowadays ;-)15:06
didrocksseb128: maybe my worflow will change with the time :) I added a hook to push in a local reprepro and just apt-get update in the vm (who is running all the time, when updating/fixing packages).15:07
didrocksbut I agree that pbuilder is slow :/15:07
didrocksbut it's great to avoid missing build-deps, it's something I'm quite afraid of (even if I diff the configure files automatically now ;))15:07
seb128I'm doing iso testing in kvm, it's nice to do quick testing but it's the same that running the system and doing it normal use testing for a day15:08
didrocksseb128: and you switch to the new version from day 1 of open repository ?15:08
seb128no, I usually focus on doing srus and stabilizing stable for a month and so15:09
seb128then I keep stable but start doing syncs on debian and test those on the current stable15:09
seb128in which point I've a mix of stable + updated GNOME15:09
seb128and I upgrade when I feel the new version should be somewhat usable (usually around uds)15:10
huatsseb128: you know with didrocks we have a lot of work methods in common (the vm usage)15:10
seb128you can install selected GNOME updates and still keep xorg, linux etc from the stable15:10
didrocksok, seems interesting. I will see which workflow will suit me the best for next release. Everyday is a new experiencing one ;)15:10
didrocksseb128: seems to be tricky to define apt priorities for every GNOME package15:11
seb128I don't15:13
seb128I just install what I need to build the updates I'm working on15:13
seb128and dpkg -i those15:13
didrocksseb128: yes, but you build most of GNOME package, so, if we want to update GNOME packages too, we will certainly need yours putted in unstable ubuntu release :)15:14
seb128I do upload things directly, what reason would I have to keep those locally?15:15
seb128but I expect the work for next month will be to sync GNOME 2.26 on debian15:15
seb128ie jaunty will have all the requirement to build and test those15:15
didrocksseb128: ok, right, I didn't get it, that you only worked SRU for jaunty, thought that you put the new GNOME updates to karmic15:16
seb128no15:16
seb128I work first on getting some SRU in jaunty to fix issues we will get reported around now and after jaunty15:17
didrocksright...15:17
seb128let's say from now until 2 weeks after jaunty15:17
seb128then I work on bringing the debian and ubuntu 2.26 in sync in karmic15:17
seb128that will take some weeks, and since they have 2.26 you can do that on jaunty15:17
seb128then I start on 2.2715:17
didrocksok, so, no major prerequiste changes during this time15:18
seb128which you can start building and testing on jaunty15:18
didrocksok15:18
seb128in this point you have a jaunty + updated GNOME15:18
seb128then I upgrade ;-)15:18
didrocksunderstood :-)15:18
didrockskeep us in touch for what we can fix/merge from debian after jaunty's release15:19
didrocksdo we put 2.26.1 to debian SVN alioth?15:19
didrocks(push back, removing ubuntu LPI for instance?)15:19
seb128debian is getting 2.26.1 right now15:20
seb128so we basically get their 2.26 version for things they updated15:21
seb128diff with ubunyu15:21
seb128ubuntu15:21
seb128apply ubuntu changes if required15:21
pittirickspencer3, bryce: FYI, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/ReleaseNotes and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReinhardTartler/X/RevertingIntelDriverTo2.4 now have detailled workaround information, warnings, and rollback instructions15:21
seb128ask a sync if not15:21
didrocks... what is called merging :)15:21
seb128and if there is some changes which would make sense for debian them those to the debian bts15:21
didrocksoki15:22
rickspencer3pitti: so weird, I was just checking that15:22
seb128right, I'm not sure to understand your question so I explain it again ;-)15:22
didrocksseb128: you use Mom to get merging status (what packages have been updated) or just ML?15:22
rickspencer3pitti: could you please add a section for the freezes?15:23
seb128didrocks: usually ml, but that's another case where having a table of versions would be useful15:23
pittirickspencer3: I went through those bugs, but the only non-patchy workaround that I found was to disable DRI15:23
seb128didrocks: in fact I've a custom hack to generate a package of packages where the debian version is higher than the ubuntu one15:24
rickspencer3pitti: I think folks find that turning off desktop effects works15:24
pittirickspencer3: which is currently covered in the suspend/hibernate hangs15:24
seb128a page of packages rather15:24
pittiI'll make that more general15:24
rickspencer3I'd rather be explicit about the hangs15:24
didrocksseb128: a page of packages is more understable than package of package :) Ok, seems where we should give a look at too :)15:26
didrocksseb128: thanks for the workflow explanation15:26
pittirickspencer3: updated again15:27
seb128you're welcome ;-)15:27
rickspencer3pitti: thanks15:27
rickspencer3looks good15:27
rickspencer3:)15:27
superm1mvo, particularly about that zenity thing, the proposed patch just changes focus_on_map in all the glade file to True.  wanted to see if there was opposition to this (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/25534023/zenity-2.26.0-focus.patch) ?16:07
mvosuperm1: not from me, makes me wonder why it was defaulting to "False" in the first place16:10
superm1mvo, well i'd guess oversight;  this emphasis on making sure focus_on_map was doing the right thing is a recentish thing isn't it?16:10
mvosuperm1: sort of, the fact that it opens in the background is, but unless there is a good reason (taht I don't see) I think focus_on_map should be true16:13
superm1mvo, okay. seb128 didn't hae an opinion about this one way or the other either, so since upstream hasn't been responsive on this, i'd like to get this patch in to fix the immediate problem and then repoke upstream16:15
seb128what is the bug number again?16:15
superm1bug 27208316:20
* jtholmes is away: for about 3 hours16:36
seb128pedro_: hey17:12
pedro_salut seb12817:12
seb128pedro_: what's going on on bug #338644, still looking upstream for a duplicate? ;-)17:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 338644 in nautilus "nautilus misarrange the items in the different views" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33864417:12
pedro_seb128: woops don't think so, will take care of that now, thanks for raising it17:13
pedro_too many bug mail to catch up :-717:14
seb128pedro_: you're welcome, thanks, I'm cleaning nautilus today ;-)17:14
seb128I did gnome-control-center yesterday17:14
seb128yeah, I've stopped keeping emails as todolist, too many of those17:14
seb128I read those quickly, reply to things easy or important17:14
seb128and triage components on launchpad directly otherwis17:14
seb128listing bugs which are not known to affect upstream or need to be sent there17:15
pedro_yeah that seems the best way to do it, otherwise you keep missing things like that bug17:15
seb128pedro_: don't worry that's nothing important, it's just not possible to keep track of everything going on ;-)17:17
mib_8snagycahey is this anygood?17:23
mib_8snagycaany1 here?17:24
mib_8snagycafine be that way17:24
hyperairsome people just can't wait. how stupid.17:42
seb128bbl18:21
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
pittirickspencer3-afk: what you tried to say with the "required:" blueprint whiteboards is better achieved with "Subscribe someone else" -> "Participation essential"20:47
pittirickspencer3-afk: the summit.ubuntu.com planner also has this feature, I'm not sure whether setting this is bidirectional (Keybuk?)20:48
seb128pitti: what sort of fixes will be accepted between rc and jaunty?20:50
pittiseb128: OMGbreakstheworld, and "tiny patch with zero regression risk"20:50
pitti(being considerate with the latter, especially with the ones which can become SRUs)20:51
seb128ok, not really learning something there, I think I need to come with specific examples ;-)20:51
seb128pitti: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/libsoup?view=revision&revision=1254 for example20:52
seb128pitti: fix some crasher cases in evolution (not so frequent but enough to have upstream asking me if jaunty has the change)20:52
seb128I'm fine doing srus, etc20:53
pittiseb128: you can try and upload it to the queue, worst case it gets rejected and needs to be turned into an SRU20:53
seb128but I'm also fine getting the fix in jaunty and doing less paper work ;-)20:53
pittiwell, at this point it isn't less paperwork20:53
nhainesheh20:53
pittiyou need a jaunty bug for it and document the fix, sub ubuntu-release, etc.20:53
seb128right, I'm just trying to optimize, ie I will not bother going through those rounds if you prefer having an sru direct20:54
seb128ok, thanks20:54
seb128I will sru20:54
seb128do you know if jaunty-proposed is already open for uploads?20:54
pittiseb128: sounds good20:54
pittiseb128: yes, you can upload to -proposed20:54
pittiit won't get accepted until after release, of cousre20:54
seb128right20:55
seb128just to get things out of my plates20:55
seb128ie get bugs in shape and uploads in the queue20:55
pittiyou can do that, yes20:56
pittiok, early bedtime for me today, to get healthy again20:57
* pitti waves20:57
seb128pitti: 'night20:57
=== dpm_ is now known as dpm
seb128pedro_: still looking to bug #320026 too? ;-)21:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 320026 in nautilus "Thumbnail of jpeg (11 by 3072 pixels) not displayed in Nautilus" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32002621:48
pedro_seb128: yeah!21:48
seb128hehe21:48
pedro_seb128: let me look into that right now21:49
seb128thanks21:49
* pedro_ kicks his memory21:49
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3
rickspencer3pitti - thanks21:50
kenvandine_wkrickspencer3: was there a wiki page for documenting our experiences using EXAOptimizeMigration?21:53
kenvandine_wkor a bug?21:53
rickspencer3kenvandine_wk: there is a bug, I think you can find it in the minutes, otherwise, I'll get it for you in a few21:54
kenvandine_wkoh...21:54
kenvandine_wkright21:54
kenvandine_wki'll get it21:54
kenvandine_wkbeen stable here... faster than EXA without it... but not as fast as UXA21:54
* kenvandine_wk comments then goes back to uxa21:55
rickspencer3interesting21:55
kenvandine_wkuxa is just smoking fast on this box21:57
rickspencer3kenvandine_wk: good21:57
kenvandine_wkand exa without that option is dog slow...21:57
seb128pedro_: could be http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12493622:02
ubottuGnome bug 124936 in Thumbnails "small images (under 96px) are not thumbnailed" [Minor,New]22:02
seb128pedro_: I just ran across it while searching for an another thumbnail issue22:03
* pedro_ looking22:03
pedro_seb128: seems similar but on the test archive they're a couple of images with almost the same size (1103px-11px and 3072x11px)  the first one renders ok and the other doesn't22:07
pedro_seb128: maybe it's a library issue, eog is having the same behavior22:07
seb128right22:08
pedro_or an eog since IIRC it's the one responsible for doing such thumbnails isnt?22:08
seb128let's see if upstream figure something22:08
pedro_yep22:08
seb128I don't think so, I think it's gtk which is used to do those22:08
seb128or libgnomeui22:08
pedro_will ping claudio for the eog part in case he knows something about it22:09
seb128thanks22:09
pedro_np22:09
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i'm just going through some old gnome-session bugs. If I understand bug 47005 correctly, it's a non-issue now isn't it?23:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 47005 in gnome-session "'Switch User' button from 'System/Quit' should behave exactly like 'Switch User' from gnome-screensaver" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/4700523:45
seb128chrisccoulson: when using fusa you mean? right23:46
seb128chrisccoulson: and gnome-screensaver switch to gdm too, right can be closed now23:47
chrisccoulsonthis bug report is when using the session dialog, but i think all buttons do the same thing now - they just take you back to GDM23:47
chrisccoulsonyeah, i'll close that one23:47
chrisccoulsonthanks23:47
seb128you're welcome, thanks for triaging those ;-)23:47

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