[07:20] <asac> good morning :)
[07:25] <AJNpa80> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1127051
[07:49] <maxb> window level all
[08:26] <seb128> hello there
[08:37] <pitti> Good morning
[08:40] <didrocks>  morning seb128 & pitti
[08:40] <seb128> hello didrocks pitti
[08:41] <pitti> hey didrocks
[09:34] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[09:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson: alex said he thinks he knows what is wrong with your nautilus bug
[09:35] <seb128> he will have a look today apparently
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[09:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson: in fact he just fixed it to svn
[09:38] <seb128> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/nautilus?view=revision&revision=15184
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> thanks, i just noticed the e-mail i got from the bugzilla
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> i'll test the change later
[12:47] <mvo> seb128: hm, we do no longer enable 81_gnome-app-install in nautilus for the mime search stuff?
[13:03] <didrocks> pitti: I added -d to your debclean change in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr (contrary to debian/clean rules, debclean checks by defaut if build-deps are installed)
[13:07] <pitti> well, that's usually a good idea, isn't it?
[13:09] <didrocks> pitti: not sure, I often use intrepid to build with pbuilder
[13:09] <didrocks> pitti: so, I don't have the build-deps installed. And I only use debian/rules clean to update debian/control from debian/control.in :)
[13:12] <seb128> mvo: no, why?
[13:18] <mvo> seb128: not having it means we can no longer do mime searches - or was that replaced with some different functionatliy?
[13:19] <seb128> mvo: basically nobody ported the patch when nautilus has been ported to gio (it was not trivial and I've been too busy to work on that)
[13:20] <mvo> ok. have a look, I think its a nice feature
[13:20] <seb128> mvo: the current version can use *kit to install packages if available but since we don't have that installed by default ... any change planned around that for karmic?
[13:21] <seb128> mvo: gnome-control-center can also installed theme engines if required using that
[13:21] <mvo> seb128: is it using the dbus desktop api for this? having that would be pretty easy
[13:21] <seb128> mvo: look at the code or ask to james_w he fixed some bugs about that recently but I think so yes
[13:21] <mvo> seb128: the problem with PK has not changed, it can not install  packages that require interaction
[13:22] <seb128> mvo: well, for the gnome-control-center theme engines or nautilus applications cases that should be no issue
[13:22] <seb128> no?
[13:22] <james_w> mvo: yeah, it uses dbus
[13:22] <james_w> session bus
[13:22] <seb128> hey james_w ;-)
[13:22] <james_w> hi seb128
[13:23] <mvo> if it uses the session bus api, then that (currenly) requires the whole gnome PK desktop apps, we should split that
[13:23] <seb128> mvo: can't we get it installed and used for easy packages and have it bailing an error for debconf cases?
[13:23] <mvo> its doing that right now (erroring out)
[13:23] <seb128> mvo: we will not change that for jaunty anyway, we can discuss that at uds (again?) if you want ;-)
[13:24] <seb128> otherwise I will let you decide if you think that we should get the gnome-app-install patch back
[13:24] <seb128> it's still there but not applied because the code changed, ie just need somebody adapting it to the new codebase
[13:24] <mvo> seb128: the g-a-i patch seems to be pretty small, I look into that and if its ok I think its a canidate for jaunty-updates
[13:25] <mvo> seb128: for karmic we should provide the dbus session api in one way or the other
[13:25] <seb128> mvo: would be great, thanks ;-)
[13:51] <pitti> didrocks: I see
[13:56] <seb128> didrocks: I would argue if that you are running intrepid you can't really test jaunty upgrades though
[14:03] <huats> hello everyone
[14:05] <kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: ping
[14:06] <tseliot> asac: this post suggests that I keep bugging you until 0.7.1 is available (in PPA for hardy in my case): http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/04/16/you-will-upgrade-to-networkmanager-071/
[14:10] <kenvandine_wk> morning rickspencer3
[14:14] <asac> tseliot: i have the port for hardy somewhere. just need to get it up
[14:14] <tseliot> asac: great :-)
[14:15] <rickspencer3> good morning kenvandine_wk, et al
[14:16] <kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: i did some gajim hacking last night... looks like the indicator stuff isn't what's broken in gajim
[14:16] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[14:16] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:16] <kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: it never calls the notify method, at least for messages... only seems to for contact_connected and new_mail
[14:16] <kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: so we also don't get notifications for messages... which we did before
[14:17] <kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: didn't follow it back far enough to see why not...
[14:17] <rickspencer3> pitti: is it too late to make a change to Jaunty?
[14:17] <rickspencer3> just one more package?
[14:17] <rickspencer3> j/k
[14:17] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[14:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: you have to convince slangasek, but for new packages, definitive "yes"
[14:18] <pitti> or, if it's universe, convince motu-release :)
[14:18]  * kenvandine_wk has a laptop with intel that xorg doesn't work in the installer
[14:18] <rickspencer3> perhaps we could get calc to upload OO 3.0
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> s/laptop/netbook
[14:18] <rickspencer3> I mean 3.1
[14:18] <rickspencer3> it's only like 50 megs bigger compressed
[14:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: what did you have for breakfast?
[14:18] <pitti> I want it too!
[14:18]  * pitti throws some candies at rickspencer3
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> i am terrified of OOo changes
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> they are never easy...
[14:19] <rickspencer3> seriously though, I'm wondering if Hugh's upgrade report may be the norm
[14:19] <seb128> we should just ship abiword ang gnumeric
[14:19] <seb128> less issues and CD spaces for translations ;-)
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: oh yeah!
[14:19] <rickspencer3> seb128: put it on the UDS schedule
[14:19] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:20] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: we'll never win that... it is insane
[14:20] <seb128> rickspencer3: you want to get me into trouble at uds, don't you? ;-)
[14:20] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I know, I was joking
[14:20] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: 3 years ago i tried doing that in foresight... i literally got hate mail about it
[14:20] <rickspencer3> actually, OO is very important to Ubuntu and our users
[14:20] <rickspencer3> lol
[14:20]  * kenvandine_wk likes google docs
[14:20] <kenvandine_wk> i saw we ship prism wrappers for google docs :-D
[14:21] <rickspencer3> I think that users expect a bloated and full featured Office-like package
[14:21] <kenvandine_wk> much easier to maintain... and faster to build :)
[14:21] <rickspencer3> and without, we wouldn't seem like a real platform
[14:21] <rickspencer3> :(
[14:21] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[14:21] <kenvandine_wk> true
[14:21] <rickspencer3> I think it would be sweet if someone did for OO what someone did for Netscape Navigator
[14:21] <kenvandine_wk> and OOo has gotten better
[14:22] <kenvandine_wk> isn't novell kind of doing that?
[14:22] <kenvandine_wk> or is that more out of desparation?
[14:22] <pitti> yeah, splitting the apps is on the plan
[14:22] <rickspencer3> well .. they are splitting them to make it all easier to build
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: easier to maintain as well... and easier for distributors
[14:23] <rickspencer3> but they are not extracting the 10% of the code which is the most valuable and making that lighter and faster
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> all and all a win
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: true
[14:23] <rickspencer3> what Novel is doing is super valuable though
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> hey tedg
[14:24] <tedg> kenvandine_wk: good morning
[14:25] <mvo> seb128: bug #362307 (includes the patch) - somehow I missed that this got dropped, otherwise I would have tried to get to it earlier
[14:26] <seb128> mvo: thanks
[14:28] <seb128> mvo: that looks fine to me, maybe try asking slangasek if that can go between rc and jaunty?
[14:33] <rickspencer3> jcastro: 2nd page of digg?
[14:35] <mvo> seb128: thanks for the review, I will think about but my gut feeling is that its ok to do a sru for it
[14:39] <seb128> mvo: I've an another sru pending for nautilus but I can get both in the same upload
[14:40] <mvo> cool, thanks - let me know if I can do anything to make your life easier (like putting it into bzr ;)
[14:40] <seb128> mvo: yes please commit to bzr so I don't forget about it ;-)
[14:40] <seb128> the package is already in bzr so you just have to push the change
[14:41] <mvo> seb128: ok
[14:41] <seb128> thanks
[14:41] <didrocks> seb128: that's true, just running in VB currently. I will fix this for next session, but still wait for alpha 3 maybe to not having whole day just to set up/fix things
[14:42] <seb128> didrocks: alpha3? rc is this week you are lagging ;-)
[14:43] <didrocks> seb128: Really? O_o kidding, I'm talking for next release of course :p
[14:43] <seb128> well if you test in vm you can probably build in the vm too no?
[14:44] <seb128> otherwise how do you now it build with current unstable versions?
[14:44] <didrocks> seb128: I'm thinking about switch to kvm, because VB is not very suited for that.
[14:44] <didrocks> seb128: pbuilder
[14:44] <didrocks> and with that, I'm sure to not forget some build-deps
[14:45] <didrocks> don't be afraid, I also testbuild, testinstall and trying the app before getting some sponsorship :)
[14:58] <Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: kewl. let's look at it tomorrow when I have a day off :-)
[14:59] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[14:59] <kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: i hadn't even noticed i wasn't getting the notifications.. although i only use gajim for testing :)
[15:00] <Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: I'm getting the usual bubbles for notifications still.
[15:00] <kenvandine_wk> for messages?
[15:01] <kenvandine_wk> i get them for new mail and contacts connecting
[15:01] <kenvandine_wk> not for new messages
[15:01] <seb128> didrocks: it's just weird that you work on a distribution you don't use
[15:01] <seb128> didrocks: it's lot of extra work
[15:05] <didrocks> seb128: the extra work is when running autotools, yes :/
[15:05] <seb128> didrocks: no, the extra work is all the time, when starting the vm, when trying in the vm rather than normal use, when using pbuilder rather than just building
[15:06] <seb128> I've been doing cross distro builds, there is a reason why I do so few debian updates nowadays ;-)
[15:07] <didrocks> seb128: maybe my worflow will change with the time :) I added a hook to push in a local reprepro and just apt-get update in the vm (who is running all the time, when updating/fixing packages).
[15:07] <didrocks> but I agree that pbuilder is slow :/
[15:07] <didrocks> but it's great to avoid missing build-deps, it's something I'm quite afraid of (even if I diff the configure files automatically now ;))
[15:08] <seb128> I'm doing iso testing in kvm, it's nice to do quick testing but it's the same that running the system and doing it normal use testing for a day
[15:08] <didrocks> seb128: and you switch to the new version from day 1 of open repository ?
[15:09] <seb128> no, I usually focus on doing srus and stabilizing stable for a month and so
[15:09] <seb128> then I keep stable but start doing syncs on debian and test those on the current stable
[15:09] <seb128> in which point I've a mix of stable + updated GNOME
[15:10] <seb128> and I upgrade when I feel the new version should be somewhat usable (usually around uds)
[15:10] <huats> seb128: you know with didrocks we have a lot of work methods in common (the vm usage)
[15:10] <seb128> you can install selected GNOME updates and still keep xorg, linux etc from the stable
[15:10] <didrocks> ok, seems interesting. I will see which workflow will suit me the best for next release. Everyday is a new experiencing one ;)
[15:11] <didrocks> seb128: seems to be tricky to define apt priorities for every GNOME package
[15:13] <seb128> I don't
[15:13] <seb128> I just install what I need to build the updates I'm working on
[15:13] <seb128> and dpkg -i those
[15:14] <didrocks> seb128: yes, but you build most of GNOME package, so, if we want to update GNOME packages too, we will certainly need yours putted in unstable ubuntu release :)
[15:15] <seb128> I do upload things directly, what reason would I have to keep those locally?
[15:15] <seb128> but I expect the work for next month will be to sync GNOME 2.26 on debian
[15:15] <seb128> ie jaunty will have all the requirement to build and test those
[15:16] <didrocks> seb128: ok, right, I didn't get it, that you only worked SRU for jaunty, thought that you put the new GNOME updates to karmic
[15:16] <seb128> no
[15:17] <seb128> I work first on getting some SRU in jaunty to fix issues we will get reported around now and after jaunty
[15:17] <didrocks> right...
[15:17] <seb128> let's say from now until 2 weeks after jaunty
[15:17] <seb128> then I work on bringing the debian and ubuntu 2.26 in sync in karmic
[15:17] <seb128> that will take some weeks, and since they have 2.26 you can do that on jaunty
[15:17] <seb128> then I start on 2.27
[15:18] <didrocks> ok, so, no major prerequiste changes during this time
[15:18] <seb128> which you can start building and testing on jaunty
[15:18] <didrocks> ok
[15:18] <seb128> in this point you have a jaunty + updated GNOME
[15:18] <seb128> then I upgrade ;-)
[15:18] <didrocks> understood :-)
[15:19] <didrocks> keep us in touch for what we can fix/merge from debian after jaunty's release
[15:19] <didrocks> do we put 2.26.1 to debian SVN alioth?
[15:19] <didrocks> (push back, removing ubuntu LPI for instance?)
[15:20] <seb128> debian is getting 2.26.1 right now
[15:21] <seb128> so we basically get their 2.26 version for things they updated
[15:21] <seb128> diff with ubunyu
[15:21] <seb128> ubuntu
[15:21] <seb128> apply ubuntu changes if required
[15:21] <pitti> rickspencer3, bryce: FYI, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/ReleaseNotes and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReinhardTartler/X/RevertingIntelDriverTo2.4 now have detailled workaround information, warnings, and rollback instructions
[15:21] <seb128> ask a sync if not
[15:21] <didrocks> ... what is called merging :)
[15:21] <seb128> and if there is some changes which would make sense for debian them those to the debian bts
[15:22] <didrocks> oki
[15:22] <rickspencer3> pitti: so weird, I was just checking that
[15:22] <seb128> right, I'm not sure to understand your question so I explain it again ;-)
[15:22] <didrocks> seb128: you use Mom to get merging status (what packages have been updated) or just ML?
[15:23] <rickspencer3> pitti: could you please add a section for the freezes?
[15:23] <seb128> didrocks: usually ml, but that's another case where having a table of versions would be useful
[15:23] <pitti> rickspencer3: I went through those bugs, but the only non-patchy workaround that I found was to disable DRI
[15:24] <seb128> didrocks: in fact I've a custom hack to generate a package of packages where the debian version is higher than the ubuntu one
[15:24] <rickspencer3> pitti: I think folks find that turning off desktop effects works
[15:24] <pitti> rickspencer3: which is currently covered in the suspend/hibernate hangs
[15:24] <seb128> a page of packages rather
[15:24] <pitti> I'll make that more general
[15:24] <rickspencer3> I'd rather be explicit about the hangs
[15:26] <didrocks> seb128: a page of packages is more understable than package of package :) Ok, seems where we should give a look at too :)
[15:26] <didrocks> seb128: thanks for the workflow explanation
[15:27] <pitti> rickspencer3: updated again
[15:27] <seb128> you're welcome ;-)
[15:27] <rickspencer3> pitti: thanks
[15:27] <rickspencer3> looks good
[15:27] <rickspencer3> :)
[16:07] <superm1> mvo, particularly about that zenity thing, the proposed patch just changes focus_on_map in all the glade file to True.  wanted to see if there was opposition to this (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/25534023/zenity-2.26.0-focus.patch) ?
[16:10] <mvo> superm1: not from me, makes me wonder why it was defaulting to "False" in the first place
[16:10] <superm1> mvo, well i'd guess oversight;  this emphasis on making sure focus_on_map was doing the right thing is a recentish thing isn't it?
[16:13] <mvo> superm1: sort of, the fact that it opens in the background is, but unless there is a good reason (taht I don't see) I think focus_on_map should be true
[16:15] <superm1> mvo, okay. seb128 didn't hae an opinion about this one way or the other either, so since upstream hasn't been responsive on this, i'd like to get this patch in to fix the immediate problem and then repoke upstream
[16:15] <seb128> what is the bug number again?
[16:20] <superm1> bug 272083
[16:36]  * jtholmes is away: for about 3 hours
[17:12] <seb128> pedro_: hey
[17:12] <pedro_> salut seb128
[17:12] <seb128> pedro_: what's going on on bug #338644, still looking upstream for a duplicate? ;-)
[17:13] <pedro_> seb128: woops don't think so, will take care of that now, thanks for raising it
[17:14] <pedro_> too many bug mail to catch up :-7
[17:14] <seb128> pedro_: you're welcome, thanks, I'm cleaning nautilus today ;-)
[17:14] <seb128> I did gnome-control-center yesterday
[17:14] <seb128> yeah, I've stopped keeping emails as todolist, too many of those
[17:14] <seb128> I read those quickly, reply to things easy or important
[17:14] <seb128> and triage components on launchpad directly otherwis
[17:15] <seb128> listing bugs which are not known to affect upstream or need to be sent there
[17:15] <pedro_> yeah that seems the best way to do it, otherwise you keep missing things like that bug
[17:17] <seb128> pedro_: don't worry that's nothing important, it's just not possible to keep track of everything going on ;-)
[17:23] <mib_8snagyca> hey is this anygood?
[17:24] <mib_8snagyca> any1 here?
[17:24] <mib_8snagyca> fine be that way
[17:42] <hyperair> some people just can't wait. how stupid.
[18:21] <seb128> bbl
[20:47] <pitti> rickspencer3-afk: what you tried to say with the "required:" blueprint whiteboards is better achieved with "Subscribe someone else" -> "Participation essential"
[20:48] <pitti> rickspencer3-afk: the summit.ubuntu.com planner also has this feature, I'm not sure whether setting this is bidirectional (Keybuk?)
[20:50] <seb128> pitti: what sort of fixes will be accepted between rc and jaunty?
[20:50] <pitti> seb128: OMGbreakstheworld, and "tiny patch with zero regression risk"
[20:51] <pitti> (being considerate with the latter, especially with the ones which can become SRUs)
[20:51] <seb128> ok, not really learning something there, I think I need to come with specific examples ;-)
[20:52] <seb128> pitti: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/libsoup?view=revision&revision=1254 for example
[20:52] <seb128> pitti: fix some crasher cases in evolution (not so frequent but enough to have upstream asking me if jaunty has the change)
[20:53] <seb128> I'm fine doing srus, etc
[20:53] <pitti> seb128: you can try and upload it to the queue, worst case it gets rejected and needs to be turned into an SRU
[20:53] <seb128> but I'm also fine getting the fix in jaunty and doing less paper work ;-)
[20:53] <pitti> well, at this point it isn't less paperwork
[20:53] <nhaines> heh
[20:53] <pitti> you need a jaunty bug for it and document the fix, sub ubuntu-release, etc.
[20:54] <seb128> right, I'm just trying to optimize, ie I will not bother going through those rounds if you prefer having an sru direct
[20:54] <seb128> ok, thanks
[20:54] <seb128> I will sru
[20:54] <seb128> do you know if jaunty-proposed is already open for uploads?
[20:54] <pitti> seb128: sounds good
[20:54] <pitti> seb128: yes, you can upload to -proposed
[20:54] <pitti> it won't get accepted until after release, of cousre
[20:55] <seb128> right
[20:55] <seb128> just to get things out of my plates
[20:55] <seb128> ie get bugs in shape and uploads in the queue
[20:56] <pitti> you can do that, yes
[20:57] <pitti> ok, early bedtime for me today, to get healthy again
[20:57]  * pitti waves
[20:57] <seb128> pitti: 'night
[21:48] <seb128> pedro_: still looking to bug #320026 too? ;-)
[21:48] <pedro_> seb128: yeah!
[21:48] <seb128> hehe
[21:49] <pedro_> seb128: let me look into that right now
[21:49] <seb128> thanks
[21:49]  * pedro_ kicks his memory
[21:50] <rickspencer3> pitti - thanks
[21:53] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: was there a wiki page for documenting our experiences using EXAOptimizeMigration?
[21:53] <kenvandine_wk> or a bug?
[21:54] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: there is a bug, I think you can find it in the minutes, otherwise, I'll get it for you in a few
[21:54] <kenvandine_wk> oh...
[21:54] <kenvandine_wk> right
[21:54] <kenvandine_wk> i'll get it
[21:54] <kenvandine_wk> been stable here... faster than EXA without it... but not as fast as UXA
[21:55]  * kenvandine_wk comments then goes back to uxa
[21:55] <rickspencer3> interesting
[21:57] <kenvandine_wk> uxa is just smoking fast on this box
[21:57] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: good
[21:57] <kenvandine_wk> and exa without that option is dog slow...
[22:02] <seb128> pedro_: could be http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124936
[22:03] <seb128> pedro_: I just ran across it while searching for an another thumbnail issue
[22:03]  * pedro_ looking
[22:07] <pedro_> seb128: seems similar but on the test archive they're a couple of images with almost the same size (1103px-11px and 3072x11px)  the first one renders ok and the other doesn't
[22:07] <pedro_> seb128: maybe it's a library issue, eog is having the same behavior
[22:08] <seb128> right
[22:08] <pedro_> or an eog since IIRC it's the one responsible for doing such thumbnails isnt?
[22:08] <seb128> let's see if upstream figure something
[22:08] <pedro_> yep
[22:08] <seb128> I don't think so, I think it's gtk which is used to do those
[22:08] <seb128> or libgnomeui
[22:09] <pedro_> will ping claudio for the eog part in case he knows something about it
[22:09] <seb128> thanks
[22:09] <pedro_> np
[23:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm just going through some old gnome-session bugs. If I understand bug 47005 correctly, it's a non-issue now isn't it?
[23:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson: when using fusa you mean? right
[23:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson: and gnome-screensaver switch to gdm too, right can be closed now
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> this bug report is when using the session dialog, but i think all buttons do the same thing now - they just take you back to GDM
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll close that one
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[23:47] <seb128> you're welcome, thanks for triaging those ;-)