[00:43] <philsf> I can't make the guest account work from the fusa applet in latest jaunty, how can I debug it, run from command-line?
[00:46] <chrisccoulson> what's not working exactly? what happens?
[00:49] <philsf> screen blanks, seems to prepare to open the new session, flickers then returns to the previous open session
[01:44] <wamcvey> Hey, anyone here actually an Ubuntu desktop developer?
[01:45] <wamcvey> ok... I'll get less picky... anyone actually here?
[01:51] <wamcvey> Well... assuming that someone will eventually see what I type into this channel... could the desktop team *please* have someone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/216550  I would be happy to work with anyone who is interested in actually getting some movement forward on this bug (e.g. assigned to someone would be *great*).
[01:52] <wamcvey> just as a bit of context... it's a bug that's been around for over a year now... and reportedly is still an issue in Jaunty.
[08:11] <pitti> Good morning
[08:15] <celthunder> pitti, good morning to you too
[09:21] <Keybuk> pitti: summit gets that information from LP, yes
[09:21] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, nice
[09:21] <Keybuk> fiddling in summit doesn't get merged with LP, obviously
[09:21] <Keybuk> there's no API for blueprints yet
[13:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti - just saw your comment on bug 346912, and noticed you added a jaunty task
[13:22] <chrisccoulson> i've been spending a fair bit of time on #tracker, and I get the impression that the corruption issues require quite big changes to tracker, so it's unlikely to be fixed in Jaunty
[13:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it was already nominated, I just accepted it
[13:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right, that might be; we can still "wontfix" it in jaunty
[13:24] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok, i didn't realise
[13:25] <pitti> there might still be a smaller patch to work around it, though, like deleting the index if corruption is detected, or so?
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> the corruption issues are not that well understood upstream, but they believe it is down to the general limitations of qdbm, which they are completely dropping in 0.7.x
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the latest version of tracker detects the corruption, and gives the user the option of reindexing
[13:25] <pitti> oh, we are using that? I thought it used sqlite or so
[13:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: where is that option?
[13:26] <pitti> does it pop up, or do you have to open some menu for that?
[13:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it should just happen automatically. but there is already a bug report open for that, because it uses a notification with actions
[13:26] <kenvandine_wk> is there a way to corrupt it so we can test?
[13:26] <pitti> ah; so it should be a dialog box
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> so you get the standard fallback notification with "Ok" and "Cancel" buttons, which do nothing
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> there's a bug report for that, because "Ok" and "Cancel" just cause the notification to reappear again straight away
[13:27] <kenvandine_wk> i never saw that in the list of packages to fix
[13:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: outh
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine_wk - the notification was added in the upload this week
[13:27] <pitti> "outch" even
[13:27] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: oh... :/
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> i was going to edit the notifyosd wiki to add it as an application to fix
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> but i didnt get time
[13:28] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: tag the bug "notification"
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> i'll do that
[13:28] <kenvandine_wk> thx
[13:28] <pitti> so, silbs indeed got it
[13:28] <kenvandine_wk> so it shows up on our radar at least
[13:28] <pitti> is there a workaround to force reindexing without the dialog}
[13:28] <pitti> ?
[13:29] <kenvandine_wk> perhaps not even use a notification... if it is corrupt, there is no other solution
[13:29] <kenvandine_wk> right?
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - perhaps we could just patch it to reindex automatically
[13:29] <pitti> rm -r .cache/tracker/ or so?
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> ^^what kenvandine_wk suggested
[13:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right; I guess there's no other choice anyway
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> once the index is corrupt, there is no other logical way out
[13:29] <kenvandine_wk> probably dirt easy :_
[13:29] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> i could perhaps look at doing that
[13:30] <pitti> that would be awesome
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> but i've got no easy way of triggering database corruption to test:(
[13:30] <kenvandine_wk> just look at whatever function is called when they act on the notification... and just call that instead of the notification
[13:30] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: i guess there is no test suite :/
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> one of the theories upstream that might be causing corruption is interrupting the indexer whilst it is updating the database
[13:31] <chrisccoulson> that should be easy, as tracker has no integration with the session manager
[13:31] <chrisccoulson> so you can trigger that just by logging out
[13:31] <kenvandine_wk> eww
[13:32] <kenvandine_wk> but... the db should be getting updated in a transaction, so it would just rollback
[13:32] <kenvandine_wk> i would think
[13:32] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine_wk - possibly. i don't know enough about databases to comment though
[13:32] <chrisccoulson> that might be one of the limitations of qdbm possibly
[13:34] <chrisccoulson> right, i've got to disappear now to travel home from work. i should be around when i get home though
[13:34] <kenvandine_wk> thx
[13:46] <seb128> pitti: how busy are you today? ;-)
[13:46] <seb128> pitti: I uploaded the gvfs,nautilus change for smb ad to hardy-proposed now
[13:46] <pitti> currently reviewing unapproved queue, then I need to prep release meeting, and then do the meeting
[13:46] <seb128> pitti: if you have some time to review the uploads that would be welcome
[13:46] <pitti> seb128: SRU was also on my list
[13:46] <seb128> the changes are the same as the ones uploaded to intrepid some months ago
[13:47] <seb128> so should be no real surprise
[13:47] <pitti> thanks
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind adding a jaunty target to bug 361205
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> that's the one about the fallback notification
[14:10] <pitti> done
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[14:11] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: just dropping the index also solves the notification issue... 2 birds, 1 stone... good stuff :)
[14:11] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: don't forget to tag it though
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine_wk - no problem:)
[14:14] <kenvandine_wk> thx
[14:24] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: asac: bryce: calc: kenvandine_wk Riddell seb128 pitti: what's the word on the street regarding the RC?
[14:24] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: quite positive
[14:25] <kenvandine_wk> twitter/identi.ca has been going nuts :)
[14:25] <kenvandine_wk> mostly happy
[14:25] <seb128> rickspencer3: looks good to me out of all those intel discussions but that's not a stopper and I think I read rather concern on this channel than on other places so let's see ;-)
[14:25] <asac> rickspencer3: plan to do my first post-RC bug round a bit later ... will report ;)
[14:25] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[14:25] <pitti> rickspencer3: as usual, tons of uploads in unapproved, trawling through ATM
[14:26] <seb128> rickspencer3: GNOME wise the amount of bugs is reasonable, nothing urgent or unexpected so far reported
[14:26] <rickspencer3> seb128: yes, I noticed that we seem to be more concerned about -intel then the bloggers and reviewers
[14:28] <Riddell> I think intel problems affect qt more than gtk for some reason
[14:28] <asac> pitti: fta asks whats the policy for bringing ia32libs in sync with RC status.
[14:28] <pitti> asac: no policy, but sounds like a good idea, if it can be tested with flash and some other usages
[14:28] <asac> is that a SRU thing or are we doing this a few days before release usually
[14:29] <asac> fta: can you upload the new package to some PPA so we can test it?
[14:29] <pitti> ideally we should do it ASAP
[14:29] <pitti> and since it's universe, it's not bound to CD freezes
[14:30] <asac> fta: is there a bug we can use to track this roll out?
[14:30] <asac> otherwise i can open one for you
[14:33]  * asac on call
[14:34] <rickspencer3> Riddell: yah, I noticed that the Kubuntu users have slightly worse problems
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer3-afk: FYI, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus updated
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> does notify-osd send out a "closed" signal when it has finished displaying a notification?
[14:55] <wamcvey> Anyone awake here yet?
[14:55] <chrisccoulson> nobody ever sleeps here
[14:55] <fta2> asac, ?
[14:55] <wamcvey> was here last night and the place was dead quite...
[14:56] <wamcvey> I was hoping I could nudge someone to take a look at a compiz issue that's been lingering around for over a year and still doesn't have an assigned owner on launchpad.
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> which issue?
[14:56] <wamcvey> apparently the issue persists into Jaunty
[14:56] <wamcvey>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/216550
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> have you tested it in jaunty?
[14:57] <wamcvey> I personally haven't, but one of the followers (David Fox) has confirmed it still exists with Jaunty
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> i can't help you much further with that as I don't have much knowledge of compiz, and I don't really have time to test it out yet either
[15:01] <wamcvey> Chris, I understand... I asked over on #ubuntu and that place was a zoo... Was hoping this smaller audience focused on the desktop would have a more likelyhood of finding someone who can at least take ownership of the issue
[15:01] <mvo> wamcvey: I think this is a side-effect of a bug already filed, give me a minute to find it
[15:03] <mvo> bug #352656
[15:04] <mvo> hm, maybe not
[15:05] <wamcvey> mvo: yeah... doesn't seem like the same issue.
[15:12] <asac> fta2: ok. so what we want is a ppa upload, with a bug so we can test and sign it off
[15:16] <tedg> chrisccoulson: Ask on #ayatana, but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to.
[15:16] <chrisccoulson> tedg - thanks
[15:19] <pitti> davidbarth, MacSlow: you are 100% sure that the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/331369/comments/27 fixes the multihead problem? "focus-follow" sounds quite unrelated to that
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i've got a patch for tracker to automatically reindex when the index becomes corrupt
[15:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: nice!
[15:20] <davidbarth> pitti: it does finish the job
[15:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: this should make a fine SRU (doesn't affect new installs, since we don't install tracker by default)
[15:20] <davidbarth> pitti: the patch that is already in the release does fix the main issue
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> i could do with a guinea pig to try it out on now:)
[15:21] <davidbarth> pitti: ie the fact that we're now displaying bubbles next to the gnome-panel
[15:21] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: i can test that
[15:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson: put it in the bug and ask silbs to test
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[15:21] <pitti> davidbarth: so you confirm it's the right patch? I was just wondering
[15:21] <pitti> davidbarth: (this is relative to 0.9.11, I don't upgrade to 0.9.12
[15:21] <wamcvey> sorry to be repetative... but is there anything more than I can/should do to try and get movement on the bug?
[15:23] <davidbarth> so 0.9.12 contains the one-liner
[15:23] <davidbarth> so 0.9.11 is the current version that fixes most of the multihead issue
[15:24] <davidbarth> the fix is really about enabling the "advanced" focus-follow mode
[15:24] <davidbarth> strictly speaking it is not a hard requirement for being multi-head compatible
[15:24] <pitti> davidbarth: ah, ok
[15:24] <davidbarth> it's just that the bug would be cleanly closed this way
[15:24] <pitti> davidbarth: the bug is chalked down for ubuntu-9.04
[15:24] <pitti> I'm fine with that cherrypick
[15:24] <davidbarth> which means? going in?
[15:24] <davidbarth> cool
[15:24] <davidbarth> thanks for our users ;)
[15:24]  * pitti uploads, thanks for confirming
[15:32] <wamcvey> Checking over on #compiz-fusion if/when this feature was added into compiz.  (it's still a bug in Ubuntu though but maybe I can solve the problem myself by building my own compiz. bleh)
[16:14] <asac> what was the trick get keyring unlocked automatically if i use automatic-login?
[16:18] <asac> nevermind. i made a system connection out of it ;) ... now no keyring hazzles on startup
[16:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - my tracker patch seems to work ok
[16:20] <chrisccoulson> i flipped a few bits in the index to corrupt it ;)
[16:21] <pitti> \o/
[16:28] <wamcvey> FYI: regarding ticket https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/216550  , the vigo plugin to compiz (http://www.acc.umu.se/~janlert/vigo/) provides key binding for raise-lower functionality. I'll update the ticket with the info on getting it compiled and installed.
[17:05] <pitti> seb128: heh, cjwatson and you are on par on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html; but cjwatson has some more fixes in the pipeline; quick, fix something and overtake him :)
[17:45] <seb128> pitti: we should count jaunty-updates there too ;-)
[17:48] <pitti> seb128: are you experiencing bug 359392?
[17:48] <seb128> pitti: no
[17:49] <pitti> seb128: running with any special xorg.conf options such as greedy or EXAOptimize?
[17:49] <bryce> seb128: do you run compiz on?
[17:49] <mvo> seb128: or desktop effects ;)
[17:49] <seb128> xorg is rocking stable since the fast user switching fix there
[17:49] <seb128> bryce: yes
[17:49] <bryce> ok
[17:49] <seb128> no, stock xorg
[17:49] <seb128> I've no speed issue and never felt the need to play with options
[17:50] <seb128> it's on my d630, i965
[17:50] <seb128> I've virtual section in xorg.conf set from the xrandr capplet
[17:50] <seb128> but that's all
[17:51] <seb128> I'm using compiz but nothing fancy there
[17:52] <seb128> ie I'm only doing alt-tab and workspace switches
[17:52] <seb128> I'm not using the cube or any other combo
[18:28] <seb128> pitti: bug sent upstream = triaged for us
[18:29] <pitti> seb128: right, but the upstream bug is not very useful, it has about zero information
[18:30] <pitti> we got asked in the release meeting to at least understand it, since it causes a lot of unrelated bug noise in openssh and general confusion
[18:31] <seb128> pitti: so put it to incomplete if it lacks infos
[18:32] <seb128> pitti: it's either triaged or incomplete there
[18:32] <pitti> right, makes sense
[18:32] <seb128> pitti: I'm not sure to understand the bug description or the issue though
[18:33] <seb128> are we sure that's something that ever worked
[19:11] <mvo> seb128: what is the pci id of your vga card?
[19:21] <YokoZar> Quick "color of the bikeshed" question regarding Wine icon: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/tango-artists/attachments/20060331/63117187/wine.svg   or http://yokozar.org/blog/content/icons/wine.svg  ?
[19:22] <chrisccoulson> mmmmm, wine
[19:22]  * chrisccoulson goes to grab a bottle
[19:27] <YokoZar> chrisccoulson: are you using "bordeaux"-style glasses or "burgundy"-style (thin or thick)
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> bordeaux ;)
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> are your icons intended for any particular theme? or just to ship with wine?
[19:38] <nhaines> YokoZar: I like the freedesktop.org one the best, but I see that the yokozar one would match some other themes better.  Maybe if the first one had bolder outlines?
[19:40] <YokoZar> nhaines: tango icons (and they're both tango-compliant) are supposed to have extra highlighting in their smaller sizes (that is, the 1 pixel border/highlight isn't scaled down, but remains at 1 pixel when the image is 22x22 or 48x48)
[19:41] <nhaines> The first one looks more elegant and the one on your blog looks more... I donno, more like a tango icon.  :)
[19:42] <YokoZar> nhaines: ironic as the first was submitted to the tango list and the latter is pulled from Ubuntu studio ;)\
[19:43] <nhaines> hehe
[19:43] <YokoZar> but it's interesting you think the fatter one looks more elegant
[19:43] <nhaines> I love the lines in yours, but (purely subjectively) not the wide shape.  :)
[19:43] <YokoZar> oh
[19:43] <nhaines> No, I think the thin one looks more elegant.  But I don't like the lines.
[19:43] <YokoZar> you're mixing them up, hah
[19:43] <nhaines> I just realized I may have mixed them up.
[19:44] <nhaines> haha, sorry.  :)
[19:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: FYI, I added desktop startup speed to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSKarmic/Prep/Desktop brainstorm list
[19:54] <rickspencer3> sweet
[19:55] <rickspencer3> I suppose folks might as well go ahead and create blueprints if they wsih
[19:55] <seb128> pitti: good luck with that
[19:56] <pitti> seb128: ugh, yeah
[19:56] <seb128> pitti: I think we spent some time on that for jaunty and will not get much better result without replacing gconf bonobo etc
[19:56] <seb128> which is GNOME3 tasks upstream already
[19:56] <pitti> seb128: at least points 3, 4, 5 should be doable, though
[19:56] <pitti> seb128: ah, gconf will be replaced by dconf in 2.30?
[19:57] <seb128> pitti: that's the plan
[19:57] <pitti> nice
[19:57] <seb128> pitti: desrt is paid to work on that and will be at uds
[19:57] <pitti> not in 2.28 yet, though?
[19:57] <pitti> and, will it be any faster? :-)
[19:57] <seb128> the plan is to have be there but don't expect everything to use it
[19:58] <seb128> pitti: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-April/msg00028.html
[19:58] <pitti> ok, so potentially that's something we could help with
[19:58] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[19:58] <seb128> "dconf is very efficient. The majority case in accessing settings is reading (think about desktop login: 1000s of settings read, none written)."
[19:58] <seb128> pitti: ^
[19:59] <seb128> ups
[19:59] <seb128> "dconf is very efficient. The majority case in accessing settings is reading (think about desktop login: 1000s of settings read, none written). Reading in dconf is done directly from a memory-mapped file containing the settings in an efficient tree format and doesn't require an extra service to be running. The service is only needed for writes.  Communication occurs over DBus, of course. :) "
[19:59] <seb128> rather
[20:00] <seb128> pitti: I think the main offenders in gnome-panel and nautilus are gconf and bonobo
[20:00] <YokoZar> does dconf mean settings will become cross-desktop eventually?
[20:00] <seb128> I'm not sure we will benefit from any discussion there, nautilus upstream already said he's happy to work on speed issue if we provide datas of what is slow
[20:01] <seb128> YokoZar: dunno, depends if other desktops environment are wanting to use it
[20:01] <YokoZar> seb128: I guess my question then is should there be freedesktop standards for things moving out of gconf and into dconf
[20:02] <seb128> it will not have GNOME depends
[20:02] <seb128> the question is not about a standard, it's to know if other desktop which have something working for them are wanting to do the effort to switch
[20:02] <seb128> and that's not a GNOME question so dunno
[20:02] <YokoZar> ahh I see
[20:04] <seb128> pitti: your items there seem rather bugs than things which need discussion
[20:05] <pitti> seb128: well, it's not immediately clear to me how to keep a gpg agent when not starting seahorse with the sessions
[20:05] <pitti> since it currently relies on those silly env vars
[20:06] <seb128> we already start seahorse feature depending on gconf keys
[20:06] <pitti> YokoZar: with KDE4 just having introduced akonadi, I have only little hope :/
[20:06] <seb128> I'm not sure that' worth the 1 second difference
[20:06] <seb128> and anyway that's rather a thing we should submit upstream now and wait for comments
[20:06] <pitti> seb128: if your budget is really 4 seconds some day, it will
[20:06] <seb128> rather than a topic discussion for uds
[20:06] <pitti> (it's a whopping 3 seconds for me)
[20:06] <pitti> but anyway, it's just a brainstorm list
[20:07] <pitti> I'm sure there's some more things we can do to speed it up
[20:07] <seb128> well just saying that I doubt we will have better ideas in a session than right now
[20:07] <seb128> it just require somebody working on the issue
[20:07] <YokoZar> speaking of gpg and seahorse... I would like to talk about how we have three separate places where one might look for keyring prompts
[20:07] <pitti> I just can't commit to us doing 10 manmonths of upstream work, as Keybuk proposed
[20:08] <pitti> seb128: well, if the solution to seahorse or the xrdb stuff is already entirely clear, then sure
[20:08] <YokoZar> Applications-> Accessories -> Passwords and Encryption Keys, System->Preferences->Encryption and Keyring, and System->Administratin->Authorizations
[20:08] <seb128> pitti: well, it has been discussed at one uds and one sprint already
[20:08] <seb128> pitti: we had discussions, bootcharts and bugs about those issues
[20:09] <pitti> seb128: what was the approach for seahorse then?
[20:09] <seb128> pitti: I don't think discussing it again will bring anything new, we just need to do the work
[20:09] <pitti> right, sorry then; I wasn't aware of those
[20:09] <seb128> pitti: we have some feature starting conditionally in jaunty, for the gpg agent we don't have a clever solution yet
[20:10] <seb128> I'm not sure that a round table will bring it one if nobody has a clue on how to do that right now and didn't during previous discussions
[20:10] <seb128> $ grep enable /etc/xdg/autostart/seahorse-daemon.desktop
[20:10] <seb128> AutostartCondition=GNOME /apps/seahorse/sharing/sharing_enabled
[20:10] <YokoZar> We probably should talk about the UI of the key stuff though.  There are 3 different programs with key icons in 3 different menus
[20:10] <seb128> pitti: ^
[20:10] <seb128> YokoZar: you wrote that 2 minutes ago already, no need to repeat it again ;-)
[20:11] <dobey> hmm
[20:11] <YokoZar> seb128: I meant as a blueprint ;)
[20:11] <seb128> YokoZar: you can do that, there is lot of discussions about merging capplets, etc, that require upstream work and we don't have so much free cycles for that
[20:11] <pitti> seb128: well, that's not for GPG, is it? the gpg agent is /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60seahorse-plugins
[20:11] <dobey> i wonder if there will be more kde art people there this time
[20:12] <YokoZar> It seems like seahorse should be a capplet itself (or merged into one)
[20:12] <seb128> pitti: right, as said "some feature", we have no clear idea about this one
[20:13] <seb128> pitti: I'm happy discussing it again but I feel it's rather a technical issue than a discussion one, ie require work and thinking rather than a discussion
[20:13] <pitti> seb128: right, that needs to be done before UDS
[20:25] <asac> what can we do for bug 362836
[20:26] <asac> dxteam wants to get that fixed ... would be UI change (even if tiny)
[20:26] <asac> impact is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/362836/comments/5
[20:27] <asac> pitti: whats your opinion? or should i rather ask in -release?
[20:39] <pitti> re
[20:39] <pitti> asac: sorry, got stuck in my mail client
[20:41] <pitti> asac: erm, now?
[20:41] <pitti> asac: let's say I'm not exactly fond of that
[20:41] <pitti> asac: technically possible, if the docteam gives their ack, but I'd rather have a sabdfl exception for that
[20:56] <pitti> good night everyone
[20:58] <kenvandine_wk> good night pitti