| abb | Hi, apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this -- but does this particular channel meant for the Ubuntu (System) Documentation Team, the Wiki Team, or (Insert Something Else Here)? | 01:19 |
|---|---|---|
| nhandler | abb: This channel is for the Documentation Team. The System and wiki documentation teams are both part of this large team. | 01:20 |
| j1mc | abb: we primarily handle the system documentation, but wiki docs factor in, too. It's just that the wiki docs are mostly written by the community, rather than just the doc team. | 01:20 |
| j1mc | hi nhandler | 01:20 |
| abb | Thanks nhandler, I guess what I meant to ask was if there were individual (less-generalized) IRC channels for the specific teams. I didn't want to spam System Doc folks with Wiki Team questions, etc. | 01:21 |
| nhandler | Hey j1mc | 01:21 |
| abb | oops, should have waited to read jlmc's post -- ha | 01:21 |
| j1mc | abb: ah, ok. it's ok to ask here. :) | 01:21 |
| j1mc | are you having trouble with the wiki docs? | 01:21 |
| abb | Oh, nothing like that -- I am actually looking to volunteer in one or both of the doc team areas, but I haven't quite decided where I could best help out (in terms of my particular skillset, etc). So I suppose I was just making sure I knew "where to ask, once I knew WHAT to ask" :) | 01:22 |
| nhandler | abb: Well, if you are interested in helping out with the wiki, Rocket2DMn is going to be organizing a summer of documentation that focuses on updating and cleaning up the wiki | 01:23 |
| * Rocket2DMn peeks | 01:24 | |
| j1mc | hahaha | 01:24 |
| abb | I'm eager to help with *something* w/ the Ubuntu community, so naturally I looked to the code/bug section and quickly decided that my coding talents are not quite to par with those fine individuals. But documenting what coders do? Hey, now that I can dig... | 01:24 |
| abb | summer of documentation -- nice | 01:24 |
| abb | sounds like punishment for high schoolers who acted out during the regular school year | 01:24 |
| abb | :) | 01:24 |
| Rocket2DMn | funny isnt it, something like that can be fun when you're not being forced to do it, otherwise it might be boring and dull | 01:25 |
| abb | no doubt -- I mean, why comment your OWN code when you can comment ABOUT someone else's? | 01:25 |
| abb | (Or wikify said comments in some form or fashion.) | 01:26 |
| Rocket2DMn | hehe, well we're not documenting code, we're really documenting how to use the system | 01:26 |
| nhandler | abb: If you are interested in documenting code, you can look up packages that are missing man pages | 01:26 |
| abb | Nothing quite like spending a summer developing documentation for a community that will immediately (1) improve things such that said documentation is obsolete, and (2) edit it away forever, god bless the wiki. :) | 01:26 |
| Rocket2DMn | documentation should generally be written at a level that a beginner can understand | 01:26 |
| Rocket2DMn | indeed abb , that is one of the major problems, is outdated documentation | 01:27 |
| abb | nhandler, I was looking at doing that particular thing actually -- but when I executed "man programWithNoManPage" there was nothing to tell me how to use the darn thing, so how can I document something like THAT? jeez. | 01:27 |
| Rocket2DMn | man firefox | 01:28 |
| Rocket2DMn | of all the programs... | 01:28 |
| abb | The way I see it -- and please, don't take this to mean that one type of documentation is more important than others -- but I've made minor changes (typos, etc) to the Wiki pages, and that seems like a relatively easy place to start. Doesn't require learning how to use Docbook, for example. | 01:29 |
| Rocket2DMn | +1, that's one reason i like the wiki, and choose that as the starting point for people participating in the summer of documentation | 01:30 |
| Rocket2DMn | you need to get comfortable with some wiki syntax, but you can learn it through imitation | 01:30 |
| abb | (That would allow me to wade in, start helping immediately -- and then I can wade into the other areas of re-documentation-ification as I become more familiar with the process...) Does this sound like an absurd approach, or appropriate...? | 01:30 |
| * abb asks the experts | 01:30 | |
| Rocket2DMn | lol @ re-documentation-ification | 01:31 |
| nhandler | abb: That sounds like a perfectly fine approach. It will allow you to gain experience writing documentation and interacting with the team (although /me isn't a doc expert) | 01:31 |
| abb | everyone lol's at redocumentationification. | 01:31 |
| Rocket2DMn | thats not absurd at all | 01:31 |
| Rocket2DMn | ive done a bit with docbook, but definitely started with the wiki | 01:32 |
| abb | (As you see, I am perfect for the Docs team, as my masterfulified mastering of the english languages is quite simply, masterific. | 01:32 |
| abb | So, wiki editing -- after reading the DocumentationTeam/Wiki page, the linked style guides, a comprehensive volume on morse code and its relevance to today's society -- what would be the best next step? Jumping on the "Cleanup" pages, or the "Tasks List"...? | 01:34 |
| Rocket2DMn | not sure how much we use that Tasks page | 01:35 |
| Rocket2DMn | checking for pages that are Tagged is a good start though | 01:36 |
| Rocket2DMn | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag | 01:36 |
| abb | If you don't use the Tasks page -- is that because there are few tasks, or because "todo" items are listed in the bugtracker at Launchpad or because there is simply not any work to be done? :) | 01:36 |
| Rocket2DMn | heh, well there is always work to be done | 01:37 |
| * abb says "ooh, a clicky-link-thing!" and flies to the tags section | 01:37 | |
| Rocket2DMn | i think we just havent managed to keep it organized well enough on that page to make it very useful | 01:37 |
| abb | (How did I know that would be your response, Rocket2Dman!) | 01:37 |
| abb | I know, if only someone or some group could be assigned to work on the wikis and related documents ... | 01:38 |
| === j1mc is now known as j1mc_ | ||
| * abb cringes at what was apparently a (failed) joke. oops | 01:38 | |
| Rocket2DMn | well, the community docs are kind of a FFA | 01:38 |
| Rocket2DMn | its very difficult to keep it organized | 01:38 |
| abb | er.... FFA is not among my TLA vernacular | 01:39 |
| Rocket2DMn | free for all | 01:39 |
| abb | ah | 01:39 |
| abb | see, I know not of this "freedom" you speak, that was the confusion | 01:39 |
| Rocket2DMn | well this is FOSS, get used to it :) | 01:39 |
| abb | Is it a problem I do all my work under Vista64/Windows 7? Ahem, but seriously folks -- I had one question that is more for my own curiosity, but I don't mean to start any emacs/vi type arguments here. :) The q is: | 01:40 |
| Rocket2DMn | you can use whatever you want | 01:41 |
| abb | MoinMoin vs Mediawiki -- why was the former chosen, when the latter seems to be more widely established? | 01:41 |
| Rocket2DMn | you have Ubuntu in a VM? | 01:41 |
| abb | Oh, it was a joke Rocket.. sorry sorry. I'll quit with the jokes. | 01:41 |
| Rocket2DMn | well, for many people, that joke is truth | 01:41 |
| Rocket2DMn | we dont hold it against them | 01:42 |
| abb | wow, that's almost quite the deep statement | 01:42 |
| Rocket2DMn | i still keep windows around, there is no shame in that | 01:42 |
| abb | Oh, no -- I understand. I mean, that's why Ubuntu exists (one might argue) -- because there wasn't really a great alternative "for the masses" until Ubuntu, so most people are still stuck with that other OS. | 01:42 |
| Rocket2DMn | re: wiki engine, i'm not sure why moinmoin was chosen, i wasnt using Ubuntu at the time | 01:42 |
| abb | oh. | 01:43 |
| Rocket2DMn | i'm sure it's been discussed, you could probably find it on the doc team mailing list archives | 01:43 |
| abb | Ah. I shall RTFMalingTeamArchives then. Shouldn't be but a few thousand to sort through. :) | 01:43 |
| j1mc_ | maybe because it is based on python, and python is so widely used in ubuntu? i'm sure that probably had something to do with it. | 01:43 |
| abb | Actually, I should probably think up questions and search the mailing list -- I bet I can find most answers there without having to pick your brains, though you have been very nice and openly brain-pickable. | 01:44 |
| Rocket2DMn | well you're certainly welcome to ask questions, can't guarantee we'll have all the answers though | 01:44 |
| abb | that makes perfect sense | 01:45 |
| abb | (the python thing) | 01:45 |
| abb | Well, I think I will go read some before I ask too much more -- just to avoid wasting people's time. Though I'm sure I'll just end up generating MORE questions, darn that silly "learning more makes you realize you know less" paradox. | 01:46 |
| abb | Rocket2dMn -- Do I need to do anything to "sign up" or "enlist" in your Summer of Docs army? | 01:46 |
| abb | ^Hvolunteer group? | 01:47 |
| Rocket2DMn | no abb | 01:47 |
| * abb hopes there's no credit check involved. | 01:47 | |
| Rocket2DMn | I will send an email out on the mailing list when we officially start, which will probably be early May | 01:47 |
| abb | that would be the general docs mailing list, or if I just subscribe to the wiki list (for now) will I get it? | 01:48 |
| abb | Eh, no matter -- I'll subscribe to the general list. Okay, well, thanks Rocket2DMn, jlmc, nhandler, and anyone else who offered such friendly advice/info. Enjoy the rest of your weekends! | 01:50 |
| Rocket2DMn | same to you, thanks for your interest | 01:50 |
| abb | oh, I'm just happy that there are so many areas w/ Ubuntu where I can contribute. (For goodness' sake, I am trying to decide "which of the many options is best for my particular skillset" -- what an embarassment of riches!) | 01:52 |
| Rocket2DMn | abb, i know exactly how you feel, i contribute to a number of areas | 01:55 |
| emorris | is the documentation team responsible for man pages, or just the help centre? | 02:15 |
| Rocket2DMn | we dont really do man pages, those are part of a particular package | 02:16 |
| emorris | ok | 02:16 |
| emorris | so should I say report a bug for that package and upload a patch? | 02:17 |
| nhandler | emorris: Yes. And if possible, you should also send the patch upsteram | 02:18 |
| nhandler | s/upsteram/upstream/ | 02:18 |
| emorris | ok, thanks | 02:18 |
| Rocket2DMn | what package is it emorris ? | 02:20 |
| emorris | libsmbios-bin | 02:20 |
| emorris | but it was more of a general quation tbh | 02:21 |
| dbcummings3374 | I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this question. I am interested in joining the Ubuntu Documentation team and being helpful in whatever way I can. I am trying to navigate the mentoring process but I am little unclear on how to begin. | 05:58 |
| Taim | What's unclear? Did you start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring ? | 06:08 |
| dbcummings3374 | Yes. That is where I began. I signed up for the mailing list. I also chose a possible task and emailed the maintainers to see if they were interested in my assistance. I haven't received a response yet. I wasn't sure if I was following proper procedure. I am confused as to how the mentoring program work and how to get a project and a mentor. I apologize for my confusion. I really am trying to follow protocol. | 06:12 |
| Taim | I hear you. I haven't navigated it either. | 06:14 |
| Taim | What task did you take? | 06:14 |
| Taim | Are you expecting it to go into Jaunty or are you looking to start work on Karmic? | 06:15 |
| dbcummings3374 | I saw a need for some work on documentation for system-cleaner-gtk (Cruft Remover). I think this would be for Jaunty, but as I am revisiting the task list, I am wondering if I picked something that just was an example of a possible task rather than an actual task. I am actually willing to work on documentation for anything. I have been an Ubuntu user for a number of years and I am now pursuing my LPIC. I am trying to move from being a user | 06:18 |
| Taim | You cut off at "I am trying to move from being a user"...at least for me. | 06:19 |
| dbcummings3374 | Sorry... here it is. "I am trying to move from being a user to a contributor and I thought that Documentation would be a good place to get my feet wet." | 06:21 |
| Taim | It is. | 06:21 |
| dbcummings3374 | OK. I am at the actual Task List in launchpad that was referenced at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks. This is getting a bit less confusing now. I appreciate your patience with me. | 06:22 |
| Taim | For now, work on any changes to the offical documentation is over for Jaunty (with the rare exception of serious documentation flaws that would affect release). Though, I do think translations are being worked on....Don't quote me on that :) | 06:23 |
| dbcummings3374 | OK. Thats helpful. Thank you. I am a native English speaker, but my other languages are Koine Greek and Ancient Hebrew. Neither of those are useful for translating into their modern equivalents. I guess I will be looking into documentation for Karmic. | 06:25 |
| Taim | It's a good time to start learning. | 06:26 |
| Taim | Just remember to be self-motivated. Here is a good spot to ask I guess. Though I am in the boat with you (still learning). | 06:28 |
| dbcummings3374 | I understand that. I appreciate your assistance. I'm actually using the Canonical courses to prepare for the LPIC. Thats where I discovered all the different methods for getting involved and getting information. I'll be coming in here fairly often. | 06:30 |
| Taim | good to hear it. | 06:32 |
| Taim | I am off to bed. Have a good night. | 06:32 |
| dbcummings3374 | You as well. | 06:33 |
| === lacqui_ is now known as lacqui | ||
| === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler | ||
| === j1mc is now known as j1mc_ | ||
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