[01:19] Hi, apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this -- but does this particular channel meant for the Ubuntu (System) Documentation Team, the Wiki Team, or (Insert Something Else Here)? [01:20] abb: This channel is for the Documentation Team. The System and wiki documentation teams are both part of this large team. [01:20] abb: we primarily handle the system documentation, but wiki docs factor in, too. It's just that the wiki docs are mostly written by the community, rather than just the doc team. [01:20] hi nhandler [01:21] Thanks nhandler, I guess what I meant to ask was if there were individual (less-generalized) IRC channels for the specific teams. I didn't want to spam System Doc folks with Wiki Team questions, etc. [01:21] Hey j1mc [01:21] oops, should have waited to read jlmc's post -- ha [01:21] abb: ah, ok. it's ok to ask here. :) [01:21] are you having trouble with the wiki docs? [01:22] Oh, nothing like that -- I am actually looking to volunteer in one or both of the doc team areas, but I haven't quite decided where I could best help out (in terms of my particular skillset, etc). So I suppose I was just making sure I knew "where to ask, once I knew WHAT to ask" :) [01:23] abb: Well, if you are interested in helping out with the wiki, Rocket2DMn is going to be organizing a summer of documentation that focuses on updating and cleaning up the wiki [01:24] * Rocket2DMn peeks [01:24] hahaha [01:24] I'm eager to help with *something* w/ the Ubuntu community, so naturally I looked to the code/bug section and quickly decided that my coding talents are not quite to par with those fine individuals. But documenting what coders do? Hey, now that I can dig... [01:24] summer of documentation -- nice [01:24] sounds like punishment for high schoolers who acted out during the regular school year [01:24] :) [01:25] funny isnt it, something like that can be fun when you're not being forced to do it, otherwise it might be boring and dull [01:25] no doubt -- I mean, why comment your OWN code when you can comment ABOUT someone else's? [01:26] (Or wikify said comments in some form or fashion.) [01:26] hehe, well we're not documenting code, we're really documenting how to use the system [01:26] abb: If you are interested in documenting code, you can look up packages that are missing man pages [01:26] Nothing quite like spending a summer developing documentation for a community that will immediately (1) improve things such that said documentation is obsolete, and (2) edit it away forever, god bless the wiki. :) [01:26] documentation should generally be written at a level that a beginner can understand [01:27] indeed abb , that is one of the major problems, is outdated documentation [01:27] nhandler, I was looking at doing that particular thing actually -- but when I executed "man programWithNoManPage" there was nothing to tell me how to use the darn thing, so how can I document something like THAT? jeez. [01:28] man firefox [01:28] of all the programs... [01:29] The way I see it -- and please, don't take this to mean that one type of documentation is more important than others -- but I've made minor changes (typos, etc) to the Wiki pages, and that seems like a relatively easy place to start. Doesn't require learning how to use Docbook, for example. [01:30] +1, that's one reason i like the wiki, and choose that as the starting point for people participating in the summer of documentation [01:30] you need to get comfortable with some wiki syntax, but you can learn it through imitation [01:30] (That would allow me to wade in, start helping immediately -- and then I can wade into the other areas of re-documentation-ification as I become more familiar with the process...) Does this sound like an absurd approach, or appropriate...? [01:30] * abb asks the experts [01:31] lol @ re-documentation-ification [01:31] abb: That sounds like a perfectly fine approach. It will allow you to gain experience writing documentation and interacting with the team (although /me isn't a doc expert) [01:31] everyone lol's at redocumentationification. [01:31] thats not absurd at all [01:32] ive done a bit with docbook, but definitely started with the wiki [01:32] (As you see, I am perfect for the Docs team, as my masterfulified mastering of the english languages is quite simply, masterific. [01:34] So, wiki editing -- after reading the DocumentationTeam/Wiki page, the linked style guides, a comprehensive volume on morse code and its relevance to today's society -- what would be the best next step? Jumping on the "Cleanup" pages, or the "Tasks List"...? [01:35] not sure how much we use that Tasks page [01:36] checking for pages that are Tagged is a good start though [01:36] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag [01:36] If you don't use the Tasks page -- is that because there are few tasks, or because "todo" items are listed in the bugtracker at Launchpad or because there is simply not any work to be done? :) [01:37] heh, well there is always work to be done [01:37] * abb says "ooh, a clicky-link-thing!" and flies to the tags section [01:37] i think we just havent managed to keep it organized well enough on that page to make it very useful [01:37] (How did I know that would be your response, Rocket2Dman!) [01:38] I know, if only someone or some group could be assigned to work on the wikis and related documents ... === j1mc is now known as j1mc_ [01:38] * abb cringes at what was apparently a (failed) joke. oops [01:38] well, the community docs are kind of a FFA [01:38] its very difficult to keep it organized [01:39] er.... FFA is not among my TLA vernacular [01:39] free for all [01:39] ah [01:39] see, I know not of this "freedom" you speak, that was the confusion [01:39] well this is FOSS, get used to it :) [01:40] Is it a problem I do all my work under Vista64/Windows 7? Ahem, but seriously folks -- I had one question that is more for my own curiosity, but I don't mean to start any emacs/vi type arguments here. :) The q is: [01:41] you can use whatever you want [01:41] MoinMoin vs Mediawiki -- why was the former chosen, when the latter seems to be more widely established? [01:41] you have Ubuntu in a VM? [01:41] Oh, it was a joke Rocket.. sorry sorry. I'll quit with the jokes. [01:41] well, for many people, that joke is truth [01:42] we dont hold it against them [01:42] wow, that's almost quite the deep statement [01:42] i still keep windows around, there is no shame in that [01:42] Oh, no -- I understand. I mean, that's why Ubuntu exists (one might argue) -- because there wasn't really a great alternative "for the masses" until Ubuntu, so most people are still stuck with that other OS. [01:42] re: wiki engine, i'm not sure why moinmoin was chosen, i wasnt using Ubuntu at the time [01:43] oh. [01:43] i'm sure it's been discussed, you could probably find it on the doc team mailing list archives [01:43] Ah. I shall RTFMalingTeamArchives then. Shouldn't be but a few thousand to sort through. :) [01:43] maybe because it is based on python, and python is so widely used in ubuntu? i'm sure that probably had something to do with it. [01:44] Actually, I should probably think up questions and search the mailing list -- I bet I can find most answers there without having to pick your brains, though you have been very nice and openly brain-pickable. [01:44] well you're certainly welcome to ask questions, can't guarantee we'll have all the answers though [01:45] that makes perfect sense [01:45] (the python thing) [01:46] Well, I think I will go read some before I ask too much more -- just to avoid wasting people's time. Though I'm sure I'll just end up generating MORE questions, darn that silly "learning more makes you realize you know less" paradox. [01:46] Rocket2dMn -- Do I need to do anything to "sign up" or "enlist" in your Summer of Docs army? [01:47] ^Hvolunteer group? [01:47] no abb [01:47] * abb hopes there's no credit check involved. [01:47] I will send an email out on the mailing list when we officially start, which will probably be early May [01:48] that would be the general docs mailing list, or if I just subscribe to the wiki list (for now) will I get it? [01:50] Eh, no matter -- I'll subscribe to the general list. Okay, well, thanks Rocket2DMn, jlmc, nhandler, and anyone else who offered such friendly advice/info. Enjoy the rest of your weekends! [01:50] same to you, thanks for your interest [01:52] oh, I'm just happy that there are so many areas w/ Ubuntu where I can contribute. (For goodness' sake, I am trying to decide "which of the many options is best for my particular skillset" -- what an embarassment of riches!) [01:55] abb, i know exactly how you feel, i contribute to a number of areas [02:15] is the documentation team responsible for man pages, or just the help centre? [02:16] we dont really do man pages, those are part of a particular package [02:16] ok [02:17] so should I say report a bug for that package and upload a patch? [02:18] emorris: Yes. And if possible, you should also send the patch upsteram [02:18] s/upsteram/upstream/ [02:18] ok, thanks [02:20] what package is it emorris ? [02:20] libsmbios-bin [02:21] but it was more of a general quation tbh [05:58] I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this question. I am interested in joining the Ubuntu Documentation team and being helpful in whatever way I can. I am trying to navigate the mentoring process but I am little unclear on how to begin. [06:08] What's unclear? Did you start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring ? [06:12] Yes. That is where I began. I signed up for the mailing list. I also chose a possible task and emailed the maintainers to see if they were interested in my assistance. I haven't received a response yet. I wasn't sure if I was following proper procedure. I am confused as to how the mentoring program work and how to get a project and a mentor. I apologize for my confusion. I really am trying to follow protocol. [06:14] I hear you. I haven't navigated it either. [06:14] What task did you take? [06:15] Are you expecting it to go into Jaunty or are you looking to start work on Karmic? [06:18] I saw a need for some work on documentation for system-cleaner-gtk (Cruft Remover). I think this would be for Jaunty, but as I am revisiting the task list, I am wondering if I picked something that just was an example of a possible task rather than an actual task. I am actually willing to work on documentation for anything. I have been an Ubuntu user for a number of years and I am now pursuing my LPIC. I am trying to move from being a user [06:19] You cut off at "I am trying to move from being a user"...at least for me. [06:21] Sorry... here it is. "I am trying to move from being a user to a contributor and I thought that Documentation would be a good place to get my feet wet." [06:21] It is. [06:22] OK. I am at the actual Task List in launchpad that was referenced at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks. This is getting a bit less confusing now. I appreciate your patience with me. [06:23] For now, work on any changes to the offical documentation is over for Jaunty (with the rare exception of serious documentation flaws that would affect release). Though, I do think translations are being worked on....Don't quote me on that :) [06:25] OK. Thats helpful. Thank you. I am a native English speaker, but my other languages are Koine Greek and Ancient Hebrew. Neither of those are useful for translating into their modern equivalents. I guess I will be looking into documentation for Karmic. [06:26] It's a good time to start learning. [06:28] Just remember to be self-motivated. Here is a good spot to ask I guess. Though I am in the boat with you (still learning). [06:30] I understand that. I appreciate your assistance. I'm actually using the Canonical courses to prepare for the LPIC. Thats where I discovered all the different methods for getting involved and getting information. I'll be coming in here fairly often. [06:32] good to hear it. [06:32] I am off to bed. Have a good night. [06:33] You as well. === lacqui_ is now known as lacqui === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === j1mc is now known as j1mc_