=== onestone__ is now known as onestone [06:20] heya kenvandine_wk [07:16] morning everyone [08:16] Good morning [08:19] good morning everybody [08:22] * pitti hugs seb128 [08:22] * seb128 hugs pitti [08:22] how are you today? [08:23] bit tired, but great! looking forward to the release [08:23] I'll pre-review all the SRUs this morning [08:24] so that I can let them in quickly after the release [08:24] "all", that's going to be a busy morning ;-) [08:25] they keep coming, yes [08:30] hey pitti - i've done the tracker sru changes now [08:30] i haven't put any test cases on any of the bug reports yet though [08:33] chrisccoulson: great! directly into the tracker/ubuntu branch, of one of your's? [08:34] the changes are in my own branch (i can't upload in to the ubuntu branch): https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/tracker/jaunty-sru [09:02] hey [09:03] asac: hey! re bug #363798 - can you just add ?section=universe to ubufox? [09:03] Launchpad bug 363798 in apturl "ubufox can't install adobe flash plugin on 64-bit jaunty" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363798 [09:03] asac: or is this a lot of work [09:03] mvo: well. the problem is the same. i have a script that generates those sections from apt [09:04] mvo: not sure how i can figure that universe is a requirement for flashplugin [09:04] i use multiverse [09:05] mvo: so what we currently use is apt:flashplugin-installer?section=multiverse [09:05] mvo: can i just use: [09:05] apt:flashplugin-installer?section=multiverse§ion=universe ? [09:05] i somehow doubt it ;) [09:06] if that works i can add a hack [09:07] asac: apt:flashplugin-installer?section=universe?section=multiverse should work [09:07] give me a sec, I test it [09:07] mvo: thats not really url syntax [09:07] mvo: & is the way to add multiple parameters ;) [09:23] pitti: asac: seb128: Riddell: good morning [09:23] hey rickspencer3 [09:24] pitti: how did you sleep :) ? [09:24] hey rickspencer3 [09:24] rickspencer3: pretty good actually, just went to bed a little lalte [09:24] lalte [09:24] late [09:24] (gosh) [09:24] everything looks locked and loaded, great job you guys [09:26] ;-) [09:27] Congratulations Everybody and here's to the next release [09:28] asac: lets says its exploting a rather simple parser [09:29] hi rickspencer3 [09:29] mvo: so the apturl above works? [09:30] asac: yes [09:31] asac: the parser is a bit simple, so this works kinf of by accident, I fixed it now to accept proper url syntax [09:32] mvo: great. you tested it on a livecd? [09:32] asac: not yet, I can do that now (sec) [09:32] mvo: please double check. i can roll that to the webservice which would fix it for all livecds ;) [09:32] (kind of neat that i can still fix something ;)) [09:32] asac: neat - so no sru needed [09:33] asac: its booting, I let you know [09:33] mvo: not for the webservice hack. in the long run synaptich should know to enable that i think [09:33] * mvo hugs asac [09:33] but thats karmic [09:33] * asac hugs mvo [09:34] mvo: dont need to click on it in the browser. just running apturl "apt:..." from command line is what ubufox does [09:35] asac: sure, I had no intention of doing anything else :) === dpm_ is now known as dpm [09:40] asac: the above line works on the live-cd [09:41] great [09:43] mvo: i guess i can also put universe last? [09:44] e.g. section=multiverse?section=universe [09:45] asac: yes, order should not matter [09:46] asac: hm, but let me double check [09:46] mvo: http://pastebin.com/f4bb9e34c [09:46] * mvo is in extra-carful mode [09:46] thats appreciated ;) [09:46] (except for the typos) [09:46] mvo: you could also check whether i managed to do the python above badly ;) [09:46] (by looking) [09:49] asac: the diff looks fine to me [09:50] mvo: thanks. can you do a fresh boot on livecd so you can verify in a minute? [09:50] asac: all good, the ordering you suggest is fine [09:50] asac: just did that [09:51] mvo: ok. please go to video.google.com === eeejay is now known as eeejay_afk [09:51] and try the missing plugins ... [09:55] asac: hm, on youtube I just get the link to the adobe website [09:55] morning rickspencer3 [09:55] mvo: i didnt say youtube ;) [09:55] video.google.com [09:56] asac: yes, yes, but that directed me to youtube ;) - now I got a different one [09:56] mvo: so video.google.com directs you to youtube now ... what a shame [09:57] maybe they do that for germans? [09:57] ;) [09:57] asac: I guess it was me clicking on some link ... [09:57] thought you are in extra-careful mode ;) [09:57] accidential clicks dont sound that careful ;) [09:57] jk [09:57] I click on any link in the livecd :) [09:58] you would be a good addition to our firefox security QA ;) [09:58] asac: nice, worked fine - I had to restart FF though [09:58] haha [09:58] yeah restarting ff is currently needed. havent tracked down where in firefox this broke somewhere between 3.0 and 3.0.9 [09:59] ok [10:00] fix released! yay [10:01] updated bug accordingly [10:02] mvo: hmm. is that syntax supported by apturl since hardy? [10:02] otherwise i would have to make this jaunty exclusive [10:03] asac: I think it is, let me test [10:08] asac: the hardy version has a bug that shows the enable-component dialog twice, otherwise it works fine [10:08] mvo: ok. probably that wont show up twice on installs that already have univers? [10:08] e.g. on real installs? [10:09] if so thats fine because at least it also fixes live cd there [10:12] asac: not sure for hardy, but for jaunty it should detect that and not show the dialog at all (hardy might be buggy, not sure) [10:15] ok [10:18] mvo: we should verify that for intrepid/hardy after the dust has settled [10:18] otherwise those users will see a regression now [10:18] if not its an improvement as previously they couldnt install flash on livecd [10:35] ok, seems to be back normally [10:42] mvo: apt is displaying misleading advices ;-) [10:44] mvo: "W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems" for a GPG key no being available [10:52] seb128: right [10:54] update-manager and synaptic also display ugly warnings [10:54] that is all very user unfriendly [10:54] I'm not even sure how to fix that, I guess I've to import the key by some way [10:54] I don't expect users to understand that though === eeejay_afk is now known as eeejay [11:00] seb128: hm, the jaunty-proposed gnome-applets SRU refers to bug 77263, but that says it's already fixed [11:00] Launchpad bug 77263 in gnome-applets "a newly plugged usb-audio-device not listed dynamically by the mixer applet" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/77263 [11:01] seb128: so the user added a external repo to get the error? [11:01] pitti: ups, I've been closing GNOME bugs which were "fix commited" a bit too quickly apparently for this one [11:01] seb128: what should it do then, gpg --recvy-key ? [11:02] seb128: ok, that should be jaunty/fix committed then? [11:02] pitti: it was on the "fixed in 2.26" list [11:02] pitti: right [11:02] 2.26.1 then, I assume [11:02] yes [11:02] seb128: ok, changing; thanks [11:02] thanks [11:02] mvo: it's ddebs.ubuntu.com there [11:03] mvo: not sure what it should do but stop displaying ugly warning without a clue on what the user need to do ;-) [11:03] it could try fetching the pubkey from keyring.ubuntu.com [11:03] mvo: I guess that's the eternal debate on how much you want to annoy users about the security things they don't understand [11:04] true, the idea of pitti is good [11:04] mvo: that's similar to the "invalid certificate" page in firefox which annoys lot of users [11:04] of course integrity != trust, but at least we'd get the integrity bit automatically [11:04] if we ensure we only put trusted keys there, we should be fine [11:04] the trust bit is "the user added the repo" [11:04] right [11:04] seb128: yes, its a similar problem [11:04] we got quite some users confused by this one [11:04] seb128: but unlike the ffox certs, we can do better here, since we control the archives [11:04] we have a stock reply pointing the wiki page on how to get a backtrace [11:05] we know how to fetch PPA keys, and we know how to fetch the ddebs key [11:05] and quite some users come back saying "I get those warning when trying to install your debug package what's going on" [11:05] pitti: indeed [11:05] so ideally, apt would auto-fetch those, and simply refuse at all to download packages/indexes if the signature is wrong [11:05] mvo: do you want a bug about that? maybe there is already one? [11:06] then we'd get the integrity automatically, and we'd actually increase security AFAICS [11:06] or am I missing something? [11:06] pitti: that seems to make sense to me [11:06] pitti: where its wrong or where its missing? [11:07] mvo: where it's missing [11:07] (if missing,that would annoy repos like mediaubuntu quite a bit) [11:07] mvo: if you have the pubkey in the apt keyring, and the sig doesn't validate, that's a bad case, right? [11:07] unless we add their keys too [11:07] so that should just refuse with an error message [11:07] it does [11:07] for missing -> try to fetch the key [11:07] if you don't find it, continue to spit out the warning, I think [11:07] but if you find it, use it to verify [11:08] makes me wonder why we do not put them into the ubuntu-archive-keyring package in the first place [11:08] its less flexible of course [11:08] mvo: well, we can for ddebs, but not for the PPAs, since they come and go? [11:08] the keys for ddebs [11:08] right, less flexible but possible now [11:08] (without adding any code) [11:08] right, ddeb key is pretty static [11:08] it sounds like for ddebs at least we should do that [11:09] *nod* [11:09] but some automagic for PPAs would rock as well [11:09] * mvo prepares a update [11:09] agreed [11:09] * pitti hugs mvo [11:10] * mvo hugs pitti and seb128 and goes for lunch [11:10] * seb128 hugs pitti and mvo [11:10] hum lunch [11:10] mvo: you are having a late lunch today! ;-) [11:11] late? it's barely 12 o'clock.. [11:14] pitti: right, but mvo is having lunch a 12 o'clock usually ;-) [11:15] mvo: rascal's crying, eh? :-) [11:16] * seb128 pushes extra srus the pitti way [11:16] bwah, can't keep up [11:16] pitti: don't worry I'm almost done with srus for the week, I just did one today [11:16] I'm 3/4 through the current queue [11:16] pitti: there is not too many 2.26.1 tarballs with interesting fixes we didn't get [11:16] * seb128 hugs pitti, good job! [11:16] my sru.sh script is growing :) [11:16] * pitti pats his new queuediff tool [11:17] I don't expect spending too much time on sru this cycle [11:17] GNOME is good quality in jaunty stock [11:17] yeah, we'll have plenty of stuff to do in karmic [11:17] and I expect karmic to be a busy cycle so better to start early [11:17] yeah, I already prepared some karmic uploads in bzr, too :) [11:17] is there an eta on when jaunty is going live? [11:17] today [11:17] tofu_logic: somewhere around 1200 UTC [11:18] wonderful, I'll be sure to schedule an update around that time; thank you [11:18] you should better start now [11:18] things will not change and you can avoid the server hit ;-) [11:19] hah alright, thank for the tip :) [11:19] (and please use a local mirror) [11:19] but of course [11:19] mvo: rejecting your notification-daemon upload, LP: #1312277 doesn't exist; please reupload with fixed bug number [11:20] over a million bugs? not here yet! [11:20] mvo: please also open/link to a bug for the --as-needed, since that will change dependencies, etc.? [11:21] seb128: we'll become millionaires, don't worry ;) [11:22] seb128: the evince upload looks weird, the debdiff removes the 2.26.0-0ubuntu1 block from the changelog [11:22] seb128: can you please reupload? [11:23] urg [11:23] pitti: I bet bzr was outdated, thanks for spotting [11:23] * pitti gently reminds seb128 to add jaunty tasks for SRUs [11:24] pitti: do you want jaunty tasks for each bug fixed or only one? [11:24] pitti: I've at least one jaunty task by upload I think [11:24] all which are referenced in the changelog [11:24] I didn't bother adding for each bug though [11:24] ok, will do that [11:25] and usually we do _not_ need the ones which say "please sponsor" [11:25] since there's nothing to verify on those [11:25] just the actual bugs [11:25] right, the upload was aimed to jaunty but late for the freeze [11:25] don't worry, I'm fixing them up during review, just mentioning it [11:25] so I uploaded as it as an update [11:25] that's fine, it doesn't hurt to have the sponsoring bugs in the changelog [11:25] just saying that those don't need jaunty tasks/ubuntu-sru sub'ed, etc. [11:27] right [11:33] pitti: evince reuploaded that was just the changelog update which was not in bzr [11:34] seb128: merci [11:36] pitti: btw lool submitted a gvfs crash using apport yesterday [11:36] pitti: which got tagged need-armel-retrace [11:36] Under armel ;-) [11:36] pitti: do you think we should just tag for archs which have a retracer? [11:36] Actually I wonder whether I got this crash from the broken SD card [11:37] pitti: or should we keep those tags in case we get a retracer for the arch one day and to make easy to list crashes on this architecture? [11:37] hey Keybuk [11:37] Keybuk: did you figure if launchpad was supposed to send emails about private bugs yesterday? [11:38] it doesn't [11:38] I know it doesn't, but is that a bug or a design decision? ie did you ask a launchpad guy? [11:39] I would be interested to get email notification for those for the packages I'm triaging [11:40] bugzilla sends out mails for security flagged bugs ... it was discussed and is somehow a bug because of security concerns. one idea was to send a mail with just the info that new content is available - but that isnt really nice either. [11:40] but probably would be good compromise - maybe opt-in [11:40] right [11:40] and security != private [11:40] launchpad has different flag for those at least === Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk [11:41] yeah well. its somehow the same [11:41] or not. i think security doesnt make it private [11:41] "security flagged bugs" -> i ment private with that ;) [11:41] ideally crashes would not go in the bug tracker directly [11:41] that would makes much less noise and make things easier [11:42] i never thought of that :-P [11:42] if we would figure how to automatically upload our symbols to mozilla, i would disable launchpad all-together [11:43] seb128: well, I'd keep the tags, since it's still interesting to find them === ember_ is now known as ember [11:43] right, my though too [11:44] lool: do we have an armel porter box/emulator where we could run the retracer? [11:44] seb128: email> hm, wasn't one of your major requirements back then to *not* get flooded with bug mail for crashes/ [11:44] ? [11:45] seb128: new evince upload has the same problem [11:46] pitti: gni? are you sure [11:47] pitti: rimu.canonical.com is the porter box [11:48] pitti: I think it could be used for that, but check with IS [11:48] seb128: let me look closer [11:48] I just debdiffed the versions locally and I don't see that, or I've been stupid and uploaded the wrong version but I don't think so [11:48] might be a bug in queuediff [11:48] retracers are quite some work to maintain [11:48] we have 2 armel apport-crash bugs so far [11:49] I would not bother if we don't receive a higher number of those [11:49] just pondering the possibility, yes [11:51] seb128: indeed, nevermind; queuediff got the older version for some reason [11:51] pitti: ok thanks [11:58] seb128, pitti: yeah, the little one likes to have her lunch early :) [11:58] pitti: re notification-daemon> sorry for the incorrect bugnumber, fixing that now [11:58] mvo: danke [12:16] mvo: [12:16] 13:11 < gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/644059 is from clean install around Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:47:46 -0400 [12:16] 13:11 * gnomefreak doesnt see security in there [12:17] didnt we add -security and -update earlier than that? [12:17] or are you the wrong to ask? [12:17] asac: I'm the wrong one to ask [12:17] asac: try #ubuntu-installer [12:18] asac: but thats definitely a serious thing if generally true :( [12:18] asac: alternative install? or desktop install? [12:20] gnomefreak: ---^ ? [12:20] mnemo: its a clean install [12:20] opps [12:20] mvo ^^ [12:21] gnomefreak: desktop cd ? alternate cd ? or dvd :) ? [12:21] mvo: desktop cd [12:21] as of april 11th [12:21] gnomefreak: thanks, let me see if I can reproduce that [12:22] mvo: thanks, maybe it was that daily? [12:22] possible, still better to double check [12:24] gnomefreak: the install was with network working? [12:24] mvo: yes [12:25] thanks [12:54] pitti: oh, already accepting srus today? ;-) [13:06] seb128: yes, cleared with Steve [13:06] seb128: sorry, was at lunch [13:07] pitti: I just came back from lunch too [13:07] pitti: ok good ;-) [13:07] so let's clear jaunty updates today and tomorrow and start on karmic work next week ;-) [13:08] seb128 seems keen ;) [13:09] yeah [13:27] chrisccoulson: is bug 360399 a regression from intrepid? IOW, should it be SRUed? [13:27] Launchpad bug 360399 in tracker "Tracker Evolution Eplug missing" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360399 [13:28] pitti - intrepid had an evolution plugin, but we dropped the old plugin in favour of the new module in jaunty, but didn't install all the necessary files to make it work [13:28] so it is a regression? [13:29] it's a regression in the sense that it no longer indexes evolution mails [13:29] okay, thanks [13:30] that said, i've yet to see it index my mails even with the module installed correctly [13:30] chrisccoulson: hm, if it doesn't work yet, it shouldn't be in the jaunty-sru branch [13:31] i can remove it. but it might work for other people, it could be just that i'm not leaving it long enough. i keep having to reindex to test out this fix for the corruption notification [13:31] ok [13:31] your call, I think [13:32] i can take it out, but i'll have to do that this evening. in the meantime, i could try and work out why it doesn't work for me [13:32] chrisccoulson: ok, I leave it for some more maturation then [13:32] chrisccoulson: please ping me when you are happy with it, then I'll merge and upload [13:33] pitti - no problem. did you review the patch that removes the notification? [13:34] at it [13:35] chrisccoulson: looks okay to me [13:36] seb128: do you need some help so that I can transform all my updates in SRU (I see you made it for one: gnome-applets)? [13:37] didrocks: I'm not sure the other ones are worth sru uploads [13:37] pitti - thanks:) [13:37] didrocks: if you feel that some are you can do the sru work otherwise we will upload to karmic [13:37] chrisccoulson: thanks, you rock [13:37] seb128: ok, I will give it a look tomorrow [13:38] didrocks: thanks === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer695 === rickspencer695 is now known as rickspencer3 [14:05] happy birthday asac! [14:06] asac: happy birthday! [14:08] asac: wow... your birthday is on jaunty release day :) happy birthday and happy release :-D [14:08] -release-party is crazy! [14:22] thanks all! [14:23] :) [14:23] yes its quite a special moment for me having birthday on release day [14:23] asac: today can be all about you... not jaunty :) [14:27] * mvo sends asac a virtual cup of tea [15:29] gnagnagna [15:30] why doesn't dgettext(domain,string) work [15:30] seb128: it should? [15:30] pitti: how do I ask for a translation of string which is in domain then? [15:31] value = dgettext("libgweather-locations",value); [15:31] well, with exactly that [15:31] is what libgweather do [15:31] value = "London" [15:31] and it opens /usr/share/locale-langpack/fr/LC_MESSAGES/libgweather-locations.mo [15:31] according to strace [15:31] which has [15:31] msgid "London" [15:31] msgstr "Londres" [15:31] I've tried to add a setlocale() call before the dgettext one but same difference [15:33] $ python -c "import gettext; print gettext.dgettext('libgweather-locations', 'Argentina')" [15:33] Argentinien [15:33] (for de_DE.UTF-8) [15:33] $ python -c "import gettext; print gettext.dgettext('libgweather-locations', 'London')" [15:33] London [15:33] it was for Argentina [15:33] indeed I had expected to need setlocale(), but apparently I don't [15:33] it works for Argentina [15:33] oh [15:33] seb128: I used that, because London in German is "London" [15:34] * pitti installs french [15:34] pitti: try Barcelona? [15:34] well, we don't translate that either [15:34] pick any city [15:35] $ python -c "import gettext; print gettext.dgettext('libgweather-locations', 'Yekaterinburg Time')" [15:35] Ekaterinburg Ortszeit [15:35] still waiting on -gnome-fr installation [15:35] pitti: "city" [15:35] pitti: it works with countries for some reasons [15:35] that one works too there [15:36] in french I mean [15:36] that's really a weird thing [15:36] seb128: indeed, it doesn't work for Wrocław [15:36] weird [15:36] the translations are in the same mo file [15:37] seb128: msgctxt [15:38] oh [15:38] mclasen: I was just noticing that when you wrote it [15:38] msgctxt "City in East and South East England, United Kingdom" [15:38] msgid "London" [15:38] msgstr "Londres" [15:38] DOH [15:38] mclasen: thanks ;-) [15:38] np === thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak [15:49] bah, that sucks [18:30] launchpad is basically down... :/ [18:31] I'm off for today, see you tomorrow [18:31] later pitti [18:31] kenvandine_wk: yeah, that's one reason why I stop now; no fun :) [18:31] hehe [18:31] but it was fun to merge hal for karmic [18:31] pretty hard to file bugs :) [18:31] woot [18:31] * kenvandine_wk is ready for karmic work! [18:32] kenvandine_wk: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html will keep us busy for a while :) [18:32] Merge-o-Matic, i love it [18:32] :) [19:05] Hi, I came to the room to discuss this around a month back. I work for one of the leading (imo :p) user experience consultancies in the UK, covering accessibility and usability. I have been discussing with my manager the possibility of contributing my time and expertise to the Ubuntu or Gnome projects. We came to an agreement today that I could spend a few hours a week offering assistance to open source developers. [19:07] so i was hoping to find a contact within canonical or gnome who could assist in moving forwards with this, ideally someone who would know of priority projects who could benefit from a few hours of our expertise [19:09] as the time is limited, i thought the best approach was to deliver the work in blocks, that is, look at a particular aspect of a user journey or application and review it from a usability or accessibility perspective. as i only have a few hours a week, i feel usability testing (involving actual users) may be out of scope [19:15] ah you [19:16] hi idnzor [19:16] this would probably interest you: http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/04/22/ayatana/ [19:17] hi again idnzor [19:52] hello again, thank you for the link, will read it now! :) [19:53] idnzor: you might also want to subscribe to the usability list on gnome.org [19:54] idnzor: to discuss doing usability reviews of different gnome apps [19:56] okay, i will introduce myself to that list [19:57] if the reviews go well there may be scope to do testing with out facilities, although that is a little out of scope for now [20:01] well, i'd started/worked on some software to use in usability testing in the past, but haven't had any time to hack on it recently [20:02] it would be a good starting point to get a more complex piece of software built that would enable usability testing with trivially available resources [20:14] the most resource intensive part of usability testing is the analysis part i have found [20:14] thank you for the link to the usability list on gnome, it looks really promising [20:15] yeah, analysis is hard [20:15] * dobey has done enough to know all about that [20:15] but for gathering the data, it would be nice to have some software that anyone could isntall/use on their system [21:15] optimal usability have some good tools, but they are geared towards the web [21:17]