=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
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=== mrpouit is now known as mr_pouit
persiaWho's here for the Java Team meeting?15:03
persiaOK.  First up, congrats everyone on the work during the Jaunty cycle.15:05
persiaNext up: agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting15:07
persiaNothing special15:07
persiarobilad isn't here.  slytherin isn't here.15:10
persiaI failed to kill Sun Java 5 :(15:10
persiaI'll try again next cycle.15:10
ttxit can run but it cannot hide.15:10
persiattx, Any updates on Contents?  Based on your blog post, I wonder if that's complete.15:11
ttxyes, it's complete. I will plug it in a packaging training session sometime in May, but otherwise it's done15:11
persiaOK.  We'll leave it on the roadmap until then.15:13
persiaAttracting new Java packagers?15:14
ttxI will (try to) to a packaging session sometime in May, hopefully it will demystify the whole thing15:14
ttxs/to a/do a/15:14
persiaMakes sense.15:15
persialudovicc is not here15:15
persiaOK.  Anyone have anything else to add?15:15
persiaI'll be adding "Specs" to the agenda for next week.  If anyone is planning to put together a Java-related spec, please bring it to the meeting.15:17
persiaSee you next Thursday15:17
ttxyes, good point15:17
ttxunfortunately I won't be here next week15:17
ttxI already have a blueprint about eucalyptus-javadeps refactoring:15:18
ttxthat's my only java-related spec atm15:18
persiaWell, we'll probably want to postpone that until the first meeting in May then.15:20
persiaMaybe some other people will raise some as well.15:20
ttxyour call. Just plug mine in the discussion if I am not around :)15:22
persiaOK :)15:22
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
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=== MTeck is now known as MTecknology
dholbachhello everybody17:59
dholbachgeser, nixternal, soren, jpds, nhandler, persia: who of you is around?17:59
dholbachember, statik, bdrung, imbrandon: are you guys around?18:00
statikhi dholbach18:00
* ember waves18:00
bdrungdholbach: yes :)18:00
imbrandonheya dholbach18:00
* persia is about18:00
imbrandonsorry bandwidth is a bit low, seeding some release torrents :)18:01
imbrandonso i may lag a tiny bit18:01
dholbachhehe :)18:01
persiaI'll also admit to not expecting to make this meeting, and not having reviewed people as in-depth as I'd like.18:02
dholbachgeser, soren, nixternal?18:02
* dholbach thinks that nhandler is probably not going to be around and jpds en route to a release party18:02
imbrandonnixternal: should be around unless he is already drinking :)18:03
ScottKThat doesn't preclude him being around.18:03
imbrandonbut its only noon in our timezone so i doubt he is *yet*18:03
imbrandonlol ScottK :)18:03
=== edson is now known as ecanto
* soren is here.18:04
* geser is here18:04
dholbachah awesome!18:04
imbrandonon a side note i get my new ( freelance ) office today18:04
persiaOK.  That's four of us.18:04
MootBotMeeting started at 12:04. The chair is dholbach.18:04
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:04
dholbach[TOPIC] Pedro Fragoso18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Pedro Fragoso18:05
dholbach[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PedroFragoso18:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PedroFragoso18:05
dholbachember: how are you doing?18:05
embergood !18:05
emberbit nervous :p18:05
nixternalyo yo18:05
dholbachember: don't worry :)18:05
dholbachember: so how's life in Ubuntu Desktop land? how did the last GNOME releases go into Ubuntu? anything problematic?18:06
emberthe life is ubuntu desktop is awesome18:06
emberthis 2.26.x looks quite stable18:07
geserwait till dholbach gets out his bbq sauce :)18:07
dholbachgeser: errr, huh? :-)18:07
emberand Desktop Team is already doing some SRU's to polish missing bugs18:07
geserre "don't worry" (was a little bit late)18:07
dholbachember: oh nice... you guys are unstoppable :)18:08
dholbachember: is there any specific applications on the desktop that you like best to look after?18:08
dholbachember: also in terms of bug reports?18:08
pace_t_zuluthere are still some gnome-panel issues in 2.26 when changing screen resolution18:08
emberdholbach: as you notice i'm usually taking care of brasero sound-juicer gnome-themes gtk2-engines18:09
emberand know hamster-applet18:09
dholbachpace_t_zulu: best to speak to the folks in #ubuntu-desktop about that :)18:09
emberand tomboy!18:09
persiaember, Many of the testimonials on your wiki page talk about rushing.  How do you plan to address that perception?18:09
=== ecanto is now known as edson
pace_t_zuluwill do... i have written my own workaround for it for the time being18:09
pace_t_zulubut i'd like to land a fix for Karmic18:09
emberpersia: i had that problem in the beginning18:09
dholbachpace_t_zulu: we're in a meeting right now, which is why I suggested it :-)18:10
emberand the rush resulted in some missing test builds and etc18:10
embernoawadays i focus on some packages or on packages the desktop needs help18:10
emberand improved my testing and interaction with the desktop team18:10
pace_t_zuludholbach: apologies, I saw someone ask about ubuntu desktop... i thought i'd bring up a user experience issue18:10
dholbachember: and for those packages, how is your contact with the upstream people?18:10
dholbachpace_t_zulu: no worries :)18:11
persiaember: Right.  It's just that it's mentioned by several people in your application, so while I suspect you've improved massively, what do you plan to do to ensure these issues stay gone when there is nobody reviewing your work?18:11
emberdholbach: is pretty good actually18:11
emberbrasero upstream have one portuguese so its easy for me18:12
emberhamster-applet are really nice guys too18:12
emberpersia: i've improved a lot actually, in jaunty the only FTFBS i had was a missing bzr add of a patch to fix FTBFS18:13
emberi'm using a lot of vm, chroots, a testing lap, piuparts etc18:13
persiaember.  I'm confident of your improvement: I'm just wondering about your strategy for testing prior to upload (in some detail).18:14
emberpersia: right now before requesting for sponsoring i'm using pbuilder on my main desktop, dpkg-build on a clean install, piuparts18:15
embera installation on a clean install on a old lap18:15
nixternalember: I had that same problem when I first got started, the "rushing", and let me just say, you aren't the only one that has had it, I am witnessing a lot of people now doing it as well..it is tough to overcome, however your last statement about using the vm, chroots, *a testing laptop*, and piuparts is exactly the remedy...i prefer real hardware over vm, but vm works just as well18:15
dholbachgeser, soren: do you have any questions for ember?18:16
persiaember, Indeed.  That does sound like a comprehensive testing regimen :)18:16
emberpersia: its a MUST!18:16
geserno questions18:16
geserfrom me18:17
dholbachpersia, nixternal: anything more from you?18:17
persiaember, Also, we typically ask applicants to specify something the don't like about Ubuntu: in part this is to identify things that need fixing, and in part this is to provide some idea of where someone is motivated to tackle a larger issue.18:17
embernixternal: yeah i sure prefer hardware over vm18:17
nixternalember: with that said, there are also times where you might feel a bit rushed..what I do when that happens to me, is ask for some help...I was rushed with the last kubuntu-docs package, luckily for me it turned out good kind of :)18:17
persiaAs it's not in your app, would you mind sharing now?18:17
nixternalpersia: good catch, I would like to know as well18:18
emberpersia: the only thing i think it's need fixing18:18
emberit's about claiming updates on the desktop-team18:18
emberi think huats or didrocks already mention that18:18
persiaCould you explain the problem, and how you think it could be addressed?18:18
emberwell when i first started to update package we used a wiki page18:19
emberbut when new contributors started to appear that become quite problematic18:19
nixternali think i know exactly what he is talking about...it is both good and bad18:19
emberso we started claiming on the irc channel18:19
emberwhich sometimes and to new contributors isn't working18:20
embernorsetto tried to fix the problem creating a webpage to address this18:20
nixternalember: how did the webpage work out?18:20
MootBotLINK received:  http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php18:21
nixternalit seemed to have worked for the Kubuntu crowd in Jaunty this go round, but I don't think Kubuntu has that large of a problem when compared to Ubuntu Desktop18:21
embernixternal: it's didn't work18:21
nixternalya, that problem is a tough one to fix18:21
emberwe kinda need a system to people claim updates18:21
emberand also check the previous upload or people who usually uploads18:21
emberand also if the package is in sync with Debian18:22
nixternalright, like if Merge-O-Matic was a bit more interractive, that might help?18:22
embernixternal: that would help too18:22
persiaember, OK.  How do you think the problem should be solved, and what do you plan to do to assist with that solution?18:22
emberi think huats and didrocks along with seb are going to discuss this in UDS18:22
nixternalI know there were packages that I needed to fix, but somebody grabbed them and updated before I could touch them upstream or in Debian....so I totally understand the problem18:23
emberpersia: i think we can improve the webpage in that direction18:23
emberand i plan to assist in every way i can, i'm going to use it too.18:24
dholbachno questions from me... soren, nixternal, persia?18:25
embernixternal: we usually have some package we really don't touch, only sync18:25
nixternalright, I am good dholbach18:25
sorenNo, I'm happy :)18:25
persiaember, One last question: you say you plan to help with the sponsoring queue: what makes a good submission?18:26
nixternalthe problem that ember stated, might be something for the greater development community to discuss, as I have witnessed it now for a while with no simple fix unfortunately18:26
persianixternal, Agreed.  If there's not a UDS discussion, it's probably worth taking to ubuntu-devel@ (and if there is, leveraging that discussion widely)18:27
emberpersia: i plan to started working on sponsoring, mainly on updates/or patchs that fix a bug18:27
ScottKI did sponsor one upload from ember and it was good (hamster-applet, I think).18:27
emberand share the knowledge18:27
nixternalheh, already updates on release day :)18:28
emberScottK: yes you uploaded hamster-applet with code from upstream to use notifications18:28
persiaember, I understand that: I'm just wondering if you can describe what makes a patch in good shape to be sponsored?18:28
imbrandonnixternal: always :)18:28
emberpersia: the version correct, the diff well formed, the changelog good18:29
emberif have patches to have it documented if is from upstream or someplace else18:30
emberif it builds & installs & runs18:30
persiaAnything else?18:30
emberit quite depends, if it something we want to send it to Debian we should tell18:31
persiaOK.  How about in terms of the specific code changes?18:32
emberpersia: that depends to, if it's something we contributor can maintain18:33
emberand if its good send it to upstream too.18:33
emberbut there are some cases we should first try upstream to see if its get accepted18:34
emberin case of a large code change18:34
persiaOK.  The part I'm not seeing you say is "The patch fixes an issue in a way that is sensible, and doesn't cause a regression in basic testing".18:34
emberpersia: yes that too18:35
* persia is done with questions18:35
emberthere are some cases in the Desktop we tend to try it first in upstream then applying the patch on Ubuntu18:35
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Pedro Fragoso become a MOTU?18:35
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Pedro Fragoso become a MOTU?.18:35
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot18:35
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting18:35
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 118:36
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 218:36
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 318:36
MootBot+1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 418:36
MootBot+1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 518:36
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 518:37
nixternalcongrats and welcome ember!!!18:37
imbrandongratz ember18:37
dholbachcongratulations ember!18:37
emberthanks folks!18:37
* soren hugs ember18:37
* ember hugs dholbach!18:37
* nixternal hugs everyone18:37
* ember hugs everyone.18:37
dholbachwho's going to do the honours later on?18:37
* dholbach hugs ember back18:37
nixternalnot me, I can't connect to LP :P18:37
geserember: congrats and looks like you survived it in one piece :)18:37
dholbachok... let's decide that later on18:38
dholbach[TOPIC] Elliot Murphy18:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Elliot Murphy18:38
persiaThe honours are likely going to have to wait until tomorrow, given the traffic in #launchpad.18:38
dholbach[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/UniverseContributorApplication18:38
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/UniverseContributorApplication18:38
nixternalwe need to make the membership stuff more stressful, make um sweat a bit, maybe shead a tear? ;p18:38
dholbachstatik: how are you doing?18:38
statikhello hello18:38
imbrandongeser: much easier than when i did my initial MOTU infront of sabdfl and the TB :)18:38
nixternalimbrandon: ditto18:38
statikdholbach: doing great, relaxing in the sun and wishing launchpad was working better at the moment :)18:39
dholbachstatik: hehe... I guess you're not the only one :)18:39
dholbachstatik: do you have any immediate plans for the karmic release?18:39
statikdholbach: i sure do. i want to get couchdb updated, and i'm currently working on packaging a bunch of libraries that are needed before I can package windmill, the automated website testing tool18:40
statikdholbach: also working on ubuntu one, which should be actually available in beta at UDS18:40
dholbachstatik: nice - I'm sure there's going to be a lot of interest :)18:41
statikdholbach: i also have a special interest in looking after google protocol buffers and general interest in erlang packages18:42
statikalthough the only erlang packages i'm currently using are rabbitmq and couchdb, so those are the main erlang related ones i'm watching18:42
dholbachstatik: you've been working a bit on packaging stuff now, what was your Ubuntu development and packaging experience like?18:43
statikdholbach: it's a bit like programming in a pile of shell scripts and various tools with random incoherent syntax18:43
dholbachstatik: so it was rather unpleasant? :)18:43
statikdholbach: the people and community are great, but it's a bit of shock to the system compared to programming in python or C18:44
dholbachok, I see what you mean now18:44
statikdholbach: i'm watching vcs-package efforts with great interest18:44
dholbachgeser, soren, persia, nixternal: do you have any questions already?18:44
statikdholbach: and the bzr branches for packages should help quite a lot18:44
dholbachstatik: yes, I think so too18:44
sorendholbach: Not really, no.18:45
nixternalya, nothing here really18:45
geserstatik: any reason why you have so few sponsored uploads?18:45
persiastatik, For application to the Contributing Developers group, the primary criteria are significant and sustained contributions within the development team.  As you mention in your application, there are only a small number of uploads for which launchpad has given you credit.  Could you talk about some of the other work you've done within the Ubuntu development community that would qualify as significant?18:46
persia(I'm guessing there are contributions as branches for which someone else had Changed-By or other similar cases)18:46
statikpersia: no, i've got very few uploads so far18:47
statikpersia: i did 3 new python packages last week, those are in revu now18:47
dholbachnixternal: ^ django-openid-auth - nudge nudge18:47
statikpersia: a main reason of having so few so far is my spending all my time working on unreleased software at canonical18:48
statikpersia: so, i'm doing quite a lot to get more software released by canonical. I also gave a lot of coaching to the guys working on the rabbitmq-server package for jaunty18:48
persiastatik, I can certainly understand that, but I'm not sure it's measurably different from engagement anywhere else.18:48
statikpersia: so, this doesn't change the fact that i have few uploads.18:49
persiaSo there isn't a huge set of work you've done that LP just isn't crediting you for?18:49
statikpersia: lets say no18:49
dholbachgeser, persia: do you have any more questions?18:51
* persia is done.18:51
geserno questions left18:51
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Elliot Murphy become Contributing Developer?18:51
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Elliot Murphy become Contributing Developer?.18:51
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot18:51
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting18:51
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 118:53
dholbach+0 - I'm sort of undecided, the work I've seen is fantastic and very encouraging, I just feel that you'd benefit from a bit more time in the team18:54
MootBotAbstention received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 118:54
persiaI'm -1 for now.  I think the work to date is great, but would like to see either more work, or more documented involvement with the developer team supporting others.18:54
persiaErr.  Mootbot syntax18:54
dholbachstatik: I hope you're not disappointed or discouraged now18:54
MootBot-1 received from persia. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 018:54
MootBotAbstention received from soren. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 018:55
MootBot-1 received from geser. 1 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -118:55
statikdholbach: not at all18:55
MootBotFinal result is 1 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: -118:55
* dholbach hugs statik18:55
persianhandler, Great to see you.18:55
statikthanks everyone :)18:55
dholbachthanks a bunch for attending and for all the great work you've done!18:55
sorenstatik: I'm with persia, I think. I think the work you've done is great, but there's still a bit to be done before I think it qualifies as sustained contribution.18:55
nhandlerpersia: I got home early today ;)18:55
dholbach[TOPIC] Benjamin Drung18:55
persiastatik, I'm certain you're on the right path, and after a bit of work with the folks in #ubuntu-motu learning some of the stuff you say you want to learn, you'll be back and successful.18:55
MootBotNew Topic:  Benjamin Drung18:55
* imbrandon needs to head out semi soon18:56
dholbach[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenjaminDrung/UniverseContributorApplication18:56
geserstatik: more sponsored uploads, more feedback (should be easy with more uploads) and you will pass the next time18:56
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenjaminDrung/UniverseContributorApplication18:56
dholbachhey bdrung - how are you doing?18:56
bdrungdholbach: good18:56
persiaSo, imbrandon has to head out soon, and was scheduled for the last meeting.  Would it be possible to switch order?18:56
persiabdrung, Would that work for you?18:56
bdrungpersia: yes18:57
imbrandongreat , thanks bdrung18:57
persiabdrung, Thanks for your flexibility.18:57
dholbach[TOPIC] Brandon Holtsclaw18:57
MootBotNew Topic:  Brandon Holtsclaw18:57
dholbach[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-April/002087.html18:57
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-April/002087.html18:57
persiaimbrandon, So, you've been away a while: what have you done to catch up on the changes?18:58
persianixternal, vote early, vote often only works in Chicago.18:58
imbrandonnow i havent updated my wiki since Dapper, but most of you should be familiar with me and i'll be happy to field the q's :)18:58
nixternalpersia: hold on, let me go drudge up some dead people to help vote!18:58
imbrandonpersia: mostly kept up on the mailing list ( u-d-d and u-d-a )18:58
nixternalimbrandon: who are you? I am unfamiliar with you?18:58
imbrandonALOT of reading on new policys / changes18:58
persiaimbrandon, So, what do you think changed the most?18:59
imbrandonand just general "catching up"18:59
imbrandonpersia: more fomality18:59
imbrandon( not a bad thing )18:59
imbrandonbut alot more struct than what i was accustomed to but not against :)18:59
dholbachimbrandon: when, roughly, was the time you got too busy with other stuff?19:00
imbrandonbasicly alot of the best practices got codified19:00
imbrandondholbach: about the begning og gutsy19:00
dholbachimbrandon: do you have any plans for your MOTU membership already?19:00
imbrandoni'm esp intrested in the mono(apache and cli) packages ( some in main , but thats later )19:01
sorenSorry guys, I have to run :/19:01
imbrandonand naturally universe SRU and SWAT stuff19:01
nhandlerimbrandon: What have you been doing to try and catch up on what you have missed?19:01
dholbachsoren: we have nhandler for you now, so we should be all set - take care!19:01
imbrandon( i loved doing those updates )19:01
dholbachnixternal, geser, nhandler: any questions from you?19:02
nhandlerdholbach: ^^^19:03
nhandlerI am curious as to what imbrandon found most useful in catching up on everything he missed19:03
imbrandonahh missed your nhandler, umm its kinda what dholbach asked, mostly catching up the last month or so on the mailing lists and looking over the policy changes19:03
nhandleri.e. wiki pages, old mailing lists messages, talking with other developers on IRC, etc19:03
geserimbrandon: so you're trying to become MOTU again for now or do you have plans to become core-dev again too?19:03
nhandlerOk, I missed the mailing list part imbrandon19:04
imbrandonyes, i've kept my sub to all mailing lists and tried to stay acive on them19:04
imbrandonatleaste reading wise19:04
nixternalimbrandon: planning on working on Kubuntu stuff again, or have you gone over to the dark side?19:04
imbrandonhahahaha well i've been on the darkside since KDE 3.5 was expunged, but i still have it on my spare laptop and plan on working on it ( notifications and such to unify gnome/kde ) but actual use i'll likely stick with gnome for atleaste this cycle19:05
nixternalScottK: ^^ enemy!19:05
* dholbach has no more questions. :-)19:06
ScottKnixternal: Nope.  He lives in KC, so not my enemy.19:06
imbrandonScottK: good bbq :)19:06
nixternalno more q's from me19:06
nhandlerI'm good19:06
nixternalKC != good bbq19:06
ScottKnixternal: That's one theory.19:07
dholbachpersia, geser: anything more from you?19:07
ScottKIt's too cold in Chicago for that to be a good place to form an opinion.19:07
persiaimbrandon, When you left, it was somewhat precipitously, and there were some concerns that some of the stuff you had been doing was dropped without appropriate cover.  Do you feel this was incorrect, or if you feel it was correct, do you have plans to ensure it is not repeated?19:07
nhandlerScottK: We are getting 80 degree temperatures tomorrow19:07
* nixternal is going bike riding in it too19:07
imbrandonpersia: definaly incorrect, and since i've learned to live by the "bus rule" ( more to come .... )19:08
imbrandonthe "bus rule" is make sure you are not the only one that knows some bit of info or has access, so if you are hit by a bus ( or in my case a divorce ) its not "as bad"19:08
dholbachhaha... I didn't know it as the "bus rule"19:09
nixternaleither did I19:09
* nixternal has to remember that19:09
persiaWell, that's excellent news on two counts (incorrect, and "bus rule"), and unfortunate on the third: I hope all is well for you now.19:09
dholbachpersia: everything from you?19:09
imbrandonpersia: thanks :)19:09
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Brandon Holtsclaw re-join the MOTU team?19:10
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Brandon Holtsclaw re-join the MOTU team?.19:10
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:10
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:10
MootBot+1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:10
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:10
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 319:10
MootBot+1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 419:10
MootBot+1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 519:10
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 519:10
dholbachwelcome back imbrandon!19:10
dholbachnixternal: that was to be expected :)19:10
nixternalbah, I guess welcome back19:10
* dholbach hugs imbrandon19:10
* nixternal hugs everyone19:10
dholbach[TOPIC] Benjamin Drung19:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Benjamin Drung19:10
imbrandongreat , thanks fella's ( and ladies if any are looking )19:10
dholbachbdrung: still awake? :)19:10
imbrandonok must run, seee everyone soon19:10
persiaHave a good day imbrandon19:11
nixternalif they are looking, it isn't at you, now movealong, nothing more to see ;p19:11
bdrungdholbach: as you can see19:11
dholbachbdrung: what kind of packages do you like looking after? do you have any concrete plans for karmic already?19:11
bdrungdholbach: xmms2 and it clients (today was version 0.6 released)19:12
bdrungdholbach: getting gnome-colors and shiki-colors into karmic19:12
nhandlerbdrung: Any plans on joining the mozilla team?19:12
dholbachbdrung: your wiki page says something about eclipse... there's little you're afraid of, right? :)19:13
dholbachbdrung: more seriously, do you have some experience with java and java packages already?19:13
* nixternal found someone who has already pacakged eclipse 3.4.2 for Debian btw19:13
bdrungdholbach: i have experience with java programming, but not with ant.19:13
nixternalAnt FTW!19:13
nixternalbdrung: Ant is so easy and fun19:13
* nixternal closes his mouth before he in the world of Java hell19:14
ScottKnixternal: Please sponsor it when Karmic opens.19:14
bdrungdholbach: eclipse is very big and ugly and i need more time to dive into ant and the package.19:14
nixternalScottK: ant?19:14
dholbachbdrung: yeah, I can imagine19:15
nixternalahh, I will help sponsor sure19:15
nhandlerbdrung: Care to answer my qeustion about the mozilla team? I saw in your wiki that you had worked on a few extensions with asac19:15
bdrungnhandler: i have no plans th join mozilla team. i care for pwdhash and currently i touched adblock-plus.19:15
nixternalI think for Ant, I have the last upload as well as the upstream patch to fix Ant...my first contrib to the Apache product, which for some reason I am extremely proud of19:15
nhandlerbdrung: So the extensions were more of a one time thing?19:15
bdrungnhandler: i also want to package htmlvalidator.19:15
bdrungnhandler: yes, it think so. but if i have time to i might touch more firefox extensions19:16
nhandlerbdrung: What route are you going to go to get htmlvalidator into the Ubuntu repositories?19:16
nixternalfirefox extensions? as in firefox addons?19:17
nhandlerAre you going to go through REVU? Or are you going to go through Debian and request a sync?19:17
bdrungnhandler: through debian.19:17
nhandlerYes nixternal19:17
nixternali never understood the reasoning to packaging addons when they are so easy to obtain already19:18
nhandlerbdrung: Very nice. Any reason that you did not get pwdhash uploaded in Debian?19:18
persianixternal, trust.19:18
persia(as in I trust the ubuntu-mozillateam to audit plugins for safety during packaging, but don't necessarily trust some random site online)19:19
nhandlernixternal: It also makes it easy to create meta packages that install many addons19:19
bdrungnhandler: yes: mozilla-devscripts is not available in debian.19:19
nixternalya, I am still not sold, but that isn't up to me :)19:19
nhandlerbdrung: Very good reason ;)19:19
nixternalanywho, bdrung nice sustained package contribs there19:19
* dholbach is all set with questions.19:19
dholbachoh no... I have one more question19:19
persiabdrung, You cite as the major thing you don't like in Ubuntu: "there are too many bugs".  How do you think this should be addressed?19:20
dholbachbdrung: will we see a origami video of you on youtube? :-)19:20
nixternalclosing them all and telling everyone to start over! :p19:20
persiaOh, and you can determine who sponsored something by checking the GPG key on the -changes list (or it should be listed with the new -changes message format)19:20
nixternaldholbach: we better see that video now that you brought it up19:20
bdrungpersia: by helping fixing the bugs. :)19:20
persiabdrung, So you feel that the reason for the bugs is more about lack of hands than about how the bugs are managed?19:21
bdrungpersia: partly.19:22
persiabdrung, And partly?19:22
=== itnet7_ is now known as itnet7
bdrungpersia: but i have no idea how to better manage the bug handling.19:22
dholbachI guess he meant "partly the one and partly the other" :-)19:23
persiaheh.  That's a fair answer :)19:23
nhandlerbdrung: Did you have any problems or difficulties while learning the patching/packaging basics or while interacting with the team?19:23
bdrungnhandler: nothing i can imagine of. at the beginning there were much to learn.19:24
dholbachgeser, nixternal, nhandler, persia: any more questions?19:25
bdrungnhandler: but i could ask dholbach in real life.19:25
nixternalI am good19:25
persiaI'm done19:26
nhandlerbdrung: So you have been active in the berlin loco?19:26
dholbachbdrung: advantage of packaging/bug jams! :)19:26
bdrungnhandler: yes.19:26
dholbachnhandler: YES :)19:26
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Benjamin Drung become Contributing Developer?19:26
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Benjamin Drung become Contributing Developer?.19:26
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:26
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:26
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:26
MootBot+1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:26
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 319:27
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 419:27
MootBot+1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 519:27
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 519:27
* dholbach hugs bdrung19:27
nixternalcongrats and welcome!19:27
* nixternal hugs everyone19:27
dholbachok... so who takes care of doing the honours? I have to dash for dinner now19:27
nhandlerI will dholbach19:27
dholbachbut don't mind doing it when I get up ... in 11h or something, maybe LP works then :)19:27
dholbachnhandler: ok... if you didn't get around to it, I'll do it :)19:28
dholbach[TOPIC] Any other business.19:28
MootBotNew Topic:  Any other business.19:28
persianhandler, Good luck getting LP to do the right thing (but at least the "is to become a foo" emails can go)19:28
dholbachthanks nhandler19:28
persiaI'm amused at using MootBot voting.  We seem to either be unanimous, or decide against.19:28
dholbachGoing once.19:28
nixternalgoing twice19:29
dholbach... twice ...19:29
nixternalsold to the monkey named dholbach!19:29
dholbachOk... adjourned!19:29
dholbachthanks everybody!19:29
nixternalno, thank you!19:29
dholbachtake care my friends - and see you tomorrow again, enjoy the celebrations!19:29
persianixternal, Didn't you read the email: "monkey" is considered a pejorative term.19:29
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:29.19:29
nixternalhrmm, so I should be more PC, is that what you are saying?19:30
dholbachtake care guys19:30
nixternalmmm food19:30
persianixternal, Well, after the fuss over trying to call everyone "Ubuntu Code Monkeys", I thought you'd use other words.19:31
nixternalhahahahaha, I liked that term though19:33
ScottKIIRC the primary objection to UCM was it was considered unprofessional, not the it was pejorative.19:34
persiaOh.  I thought it was both.19:37
ScottKCould be.19:38
nixternaland Masters Of The Universe is professional? :p19:41
ScottKPicked before my time.19:42
cody-somervilleMOTU is going away anyhow, isn't it?19:42
nixternaldon't know yet...we were told no at UDS, that there would still be MOTU, but it would just be it a bit differently19:42
ScottKThere are some TBDs in the archive reorg spec that leave me uncertain on this.19:42
persiaI was fairly sure that the term "MOTU" was going to be left around for historical purposes only.19:45
persiaI could be mistaken, but I don't expect it to retain value to join in the future, nor do I expect it to be used to describe any sets of developers.19:46
nixternalright, everyone was just going to be "Ubuntu Developer"19:46
persiaWell, I expect there to be other subgroups within that that have different rights, but yes.19:47
nixternalthe fact that people took the term "Code Monkey" and made it derogatory is a bit upsetting...I remember when it was a fun term that everyone used...then again, I might be showing my age ;p19:47
persiaThe important thing is that nobody will be defined in a negative fashion, as MOTU is currently defined as "those developers that have permission to upload anything not part of the 'main' or 'restricted' components".19:48
StevenKPuff, puff, I am late?22:01
* ogra moos22:01
GrueMasterYea, you missed it.22:01
loolNCommander: ping22:01
loolNCommander: ping22:01
loolNCommander: ping22:01
loolNCommander: ping22:01
* ogra spilled wine over his kbd now22:02
MootBotMeeting started at 16:02. The chair is NCommander.22:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]22:02
* NCommander coughs22:02
NCommander[topic] Action Item Review22:03
StevenKogra: Haha22:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item Review22:03
NCommanderogra, you shouldn't install Windows programs around your kids22:03
NCommander[topic] NCommander to investigate 33814822:03
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to investigate 33814822:03
NCommanderno progress, c/o22:03
ograkids ? you mean cats ... no kids here22:03
persiaNCommander, No worries: it's a valid SRU target.22:04
NCommanderoh, I misread kbd for kids22:04
NCommander... and I pulled up the wrong meetings action items22:04
NCommander[topic] lool to chase VFP for cairo22:04
MootBotNew Topic:  lool to chase VFP for cairo22:04
loolWasn't this handled last week?22:04
loolanyway, I sent my repo to Debian; need to actually upload it22:05
loolit was too late for jaunty especially that intrusive22:05
looland the gtk+2.0 breakage was good reason not to upload cairo too22:05
NCommanderlool, last week you said you were going to try and get it in, hence why I left it there.22:05
loolWell I mildly tried22:05
* NCommander strikes it22:05
NCommander[topic]  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)22:06
MootBotNew Topic:   lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)22:06
* ogra joins lool in tiredness22:06
loolGood progress on this22:06
loolI installed eucalyptus and sub-ed to amazon services; that made me understand a bunch of things22:06
* NCommander is extremely dead22:06
loolI also compiled implementations ideas and researched various info such as which arch to use in the vms22:07
* NCommander would love to help work on this ...22:07
loolTalked with server team folks as well; altogether good progress22:07
persiaYou really ought add the spec to the KarmicSpecifications page :)22:07
loolNow need to write a high level spec and I think it will be come an UDS spec22:07
loolpersia: Definitely22:07
loolActually I didn't take the time before the meeting, but I'd like to post my draft specs ideas for anybody to grab22:07
NCommanderlool, we're going to have a Draft Specification talk at the end22:08
NCommanderafter the roadmap review22:08
loolNCommander: perfect, thanks22:08
NCommander[topic] NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds (co)22:08
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds (co)22:08
NCommanderImplemented. Its in the karmic chroots.22:08
loolBTW [link]uBTW22:08
lool[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009042322:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009042322:08
loolNCommander: Well done22:08
NCommanderIf anyone sees any funny breakage, point me at it22:08
* ogra feels skipped but doesnt really mind :P22:08
NCommanderI know a few packages are going to explode into little bitty bomb pieces22:09
NCommanderogra, your at the end :-P (I haven't saved the page with the corrected action items)22:09
NCommander[topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug (co)22:09
MootBotNew Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug (co)22:09
ograsave it !22:09
GrueMasterNow that release has happened, I can refocus on this.22:09
persiaUm, we ought chase RC bugs pre-release :)22:10
ograthanks :)22:10
NCommanderpersia, that requires time :-/22:10
StevenKpost ?22:10
NCommanderGrueMaster, if you find a fix, we can probably SRU it if it isn't too bad.22:10
GrueMasterThat was my thinking.22:10
NCommanderor at the very least shove it in jaunty-backports22:10
NCommanderIf its absolute crack.22:10
NCommander[topic] ogra to test usplash at 800x60022:11
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to test usplash at 800x60022:11
ogradoesnt wokr22:11
GrueMasterbtw:  Thought I'd mention that maemo is poritng to QT backend.22:11
NCommanderew :-/22:11
ograi registered https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/splashes-on-armel to chase that properly in karmic22:11
NCommanderogra, additional bulletpoint22:11
NCommanderusplash karmic DOES work on powerpc22:11
NCommanderWhich means it works with framebuffers22:11
ograsure jaunty surely also works on ppc22:11
NCommanderogra, it works great :-)22:12
NCommanderusplash jaunty22:12
ograyes, with comon graphics HW22:12
loolWe need to find out why it's borken on babbage then22:12
NCommanderman, my brain has gone to mush22:12
loolor move to plymouth22:12
loolbut > UDS22:12
ogralool, we will, its a karic spec now :)22:12
NCommanderlool, do we have a /dev/fb0 device in the initramfs?22:12
NCommanderThat could be the problem.22:12
loolNCommander: Could be22:12
* ogra wants his m back *whine*22:12
NCommander[topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)22:12
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)22:12
NCommanderlool, you usually need a driver to go with it22:13
ograi'm not sure that makes sense now that we build on cdimage22:13
NCommanderlool, hrm ... *shrug*22:13
ogranor the next topic22:13
NCommanderWe have a lot of iMX51 images22:13
NCommanderAnyone want one for Xubuntu and Kubuntu (both work amazingly)22:13
ograright, all built on cdoimage22:13
NCommanderso also scratch the kernel one?22:13
ograthe spec was about merging kernels manually with images22:13
loolI'm not too happy that all armel images are imx51 images ATM; I would love some common image format and some "start installer" images22:14
loolBut that's also > UDS now22:14
ograand i dont think we'll need it anymore in karmic22:14
NCommanderlool, maybe draft a spec22:14
NCommander[topic] ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 32816722:14
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 32816722:14
ograwe can build images for all supported SoCs on cdimage22:14
persiaYes.  Draft a spec :)22:14
ograno progress here ... was to busy with image testing and spec writing22:15
ograand i dont think it needs to be tracked on the meeting page anymore22:15
ograi'll do that at some point as debugging task with upstream22:15
NCommander[topic] Roadmap Review22:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Roadmap Review22:15
NCommander[topic] offline-installer (ogra)22:16
MootBotNew Topic:  offline-installer (ogra)22:16
ograisnt that obsolete ?22:16
NCommanderogasawara, the roadmap review?22:16
ogra(roadmap review)22:16
persiaThe entire roadmap is currently obsolete.22:16
persiaWe just released.22:16
NCommanderUh ... ok22:16
ogralets move on to new specs22:16
NCommanderWorks for me22:16
persiaWe need to build a new roadmap.22:16
NCommanderFOr specs, I'm going to go around one by one to keep some sanity22:16
NCommanderany objections?22:16
persia(that's where specs come in: please submit more)22:16
NCommander[topic] New Specification Discussion22:16
MootBotNew Topic:  New Specification Discussion22:16
loolbug #358762 was resolved22:17
persiaLet's just go through the list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/KarmicSpecifications22:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 358762 in initramfs-tools "update-initramfs trigger should run flash-kernel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/35876222:17
ograwas it on the roadmap ?22:17
ograwe should probably still gop through the bugs22:17
NCommander[topic] Information Specifications22:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Information Specifications22:17
NCommanderogra, I'll swing back around22:17
persiaIf anyone hasn't put something there yet, they're late (well, excepting the extension I just sent, but they didn't know that at tha start of the meeting)22:17
NCommander[topic] mobile-qa-arm22:17
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-qa-arm22:17
ograwho is Al ?22:18
* NCommander sighs22:18
plarsI put in three informational ones for testplan/testcase development per a conversation with davidm22:18
NCommanderOk, so we want those22:18
NCommander[topic] Feature Specifications22:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Feature Specifications22:18
NCommander[topic] arm-softboot-loader22:19
MootBotNew Topic:  arm-softboot-loader22:19
NCommanderWe wanted it for jaunty, didn't get implemented. Probably something we still want for karmic22:19
NCommanderAny objections?22:19
ograneeds a lot more research prior UDS this time22:19
NCommanderogra, indeed22:19
ograthere are tons of impleentations out there that havent been taken into account ...22:20
loolDo we really want to go over each candidate spec now?  we're going to add sessions and review the full list before UDS anyway22:20
NCommanderogra, well debian-arm guys are rolling their own22:20
ograright, and they need approval22:20
NCommanderlool, I'm open to suggestions on how to do this.22:20
ogracurrently they are just suggestiuons22:20
persiaI don't think we have to go over them all.22:20
persiaAnyway, we're about 40 specs short.22:21
NCommanderIndeed :-/22:21
loolNCommander: I think we can bring up concerns we have here if anybody has any, but we don't need to go through all of them all together22:21
persiaSo, instead of going over them, we should all go write some more specs.22:21
GrueMasterWe have a quota?22:21
* ogra added 722:21
plarsdo we have a list of specs we know about, that just need to be written in case others might be able to help?22:21
* NCommander has a few, but only one is even Mobile related22:21
loolGrueMaster: Oh you weren't told about the quota22:21
StevenKI'm at 5 or so22:21
persiaGrueMaster, We have 50-60 time/room slots at UDS.  We may not fill them all, but if we can fill them, we can use them.  Otherwise, someone else gets the slots.22:21
loolplars: We have some topics which we know need to be covered22:22
persiaplars, It's the "Ideas" section on the KarmicSpecifications page.22:22
=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang
ograwe have one new person starting onday in the tea btw22:22
* NCommander just got a specification idea22:22
plarspersia: you mean the topics for discussion? I don't have an ideas section there22:22
NCommanderI think we need a mobile-community-involvement to try and generate ideas of a better way of getting the community involved.22:23
loolplars: I have a bunch of specs ideas22:23
persiaplars, Right.  Sorry.  I'm not in an ideal timezone for this meeting time.22:23
MootBotLINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/156765/22:23
loolthere's some crach too22:23
persiawho volunteers to copy lool's crack into the wiki page?22:23
StevenKOH! Translations!22:24
* NCommander loves Loic's ideas22:24
NCommanderOh darn22:24
loolStevenK: the UNR folks mentionned they want a session on it22:24
NCommanderI just realized something we haven't done yet22:24
StevenKlool: *I* want a session on it22:24
StevenKlool: "fitting UNR apps in 600 and 480 screens22:24
StevenKlool: that already exists22:24
plars480 or 576?22:25
NCommanderNeither GrueMaster or plars are members of ubuntu-mobile; I think we should vote to add them.22:25
StevenKI don't mention size in the spec22:25
plarsI thought I got added a while back actually22:25
ograStevenK, add a11y to that too :)22:25
ograStevenK, i know TheMuso is intrested in it on UNR22:25
* GrueMaster feels left out22:25
StevenKogra: Good point22:26
persiaNCommander, Needs application and agenda item.  Maybe next week.22:26
* NCommander adds it to action items22:26
persiaNot action items.  Agenda items.22:26
NCommanderpersia, do we have a formal process for membership?22:26
loolStevenK: 576 is actually the screen size of the dell mini922:27
plarslool: mini 1022:27
plarsmini 9 is 60022:27
loolI always thought people were saying 576 because they were taking 600 minus panel size22:27
* NCommander is not finding it on google22:27
ogralool, me too, until i learned its actually the glass size22:27
loolplars: ah right sorry22:28
loologra: yeah22:28
ograedavid convinced me in berlin :)22:28
loolStevenK: might make sense to target 576 and perhaps 48022:28
loolthere's a project in GNOME to support netbook perhaps down to 480 currently22:28
loolIt will likely start with an usability study22:28
ograoh really ?22:28
persiaI think 480 is a good target.  I have 2 laptops that are 480 vertical.22:28
loologra: Yeah, on mobile-devel-list22:29
ograi'm on that or arent i ?22:29
MootBotLINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/UsabilityTests/Netbooks22:29
* ogra checks22:29
lool(I proposed the first 4/5 bullet points   :-P)22:29
ograoh, not -devel ... just -obile22:29
ograhmm, no, actually devel22:30
* ogra sees lool's posts 22:30
loolOk anything else WRT specs?22:30
loolapart of we really need to complete their filing22:31
loolNCommander: moving on to induction votes?22:31
NCommanderI thought we had to do it next meeting22:31
* NCommander is all for doing it this meeting htough22:31
persiaWe do.22:31
loolOk I'm fine with that22:31
loolI'm not around next meeting :)22:31
ograi wonder why we started to only have one sigle session on each spec with last UDS22:31
NCommanderpersia, why do we have to wait until next meeting? (stupid question ...)22:32
persiaIt's too early for me to remember clearly.22:32
loolNCommander: the first rule in ubuntu mobile club...22:32
ograwe used to have at least the possibility to have more than one slot22:32
persiaSomething about preparing things.22:32
persiaogra, We still have the possibility of more than one slot.22:32
StevenKWe still do, it just isn't by default22:32
ograwith the last UDS that turnbed impossible because we had one spec for each booked slot22:32
persiaIt's just that most specs don't need it, so one has to ask special.22:32
GrueMasterAren't I already a member?  I've been working with ubuntu-mobile since 2007.22:33
ograpersia, not if we file the other 40 specs you request22:33
ograsince we'll fill all our slots22:33
ograi'd really like to propose to keep at least 10 spare slots22:33
loolGrueMaster: You're not apparently22:33
ograso we can have two or more sessions for specs that need it22:33
persiaogra, If we get 60 proposals, it's likely that some won't get accepted.22:33
NCommanderGrueMaster, membership means your in ~ubuntu-mobile, so you get write access to our Bazaar branches and so on.22:33
lool[link] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+members22:33
MootBotLINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+members22:34
NCommanderIts why I realized we need to get your membership processed.22:34
ograpersia, its still a sacrily huge amount22:34
persiaogra, Don't worry about it.  Let the ideas flow.  We can trim as needed.22:34
ograpersia, i dont expect the team to be able to finish 40 specs22:34
ogra(if we drop 30 of 70 or so)22:35
persiaI don't want to not document a good idea just because you don't think someone can finish it.22:35
ograno, thats fine22:35
persiaAt UDS we can determine what can get done, and what can't.22:35
persiaPost UDS, we can trim the roadmap to what we can do in Karmic, and what needs to be deferred.22:35
ograbut i'd like us to be more careful with the selection and the amount of slots this time22:35
persiaPre-UDS we should merge everything, and do research.22:35
ograif a topic is worth three sessions, we should have them22:35
ograwe restricted us to one per spec last UDS22:36
persiaThat's fine.  That's why I want the specs *now*, so there's time to review them.22:36
ograand that was stressfull22:36
loolThe previous UDS was filled with sessions, but in the end we didn't implement that many specs22:36
ograand didnt really result in good ones22:36
ogracut down quantity for quality22:36
persiaWell part of that was because most of the specs were not even properly started when we got to UDS.22:37
persiaThis way we have a month to do the research, and can have more productive sessions.22:37
ograi worked my ass off in advance for the touchscreen spec ...22:37
ograits not true that such specs werent prepared well22:37
ograits just a matter of time constraint22:37
persiaogra, Some of them.  Not that one.22:37
ograwe did have to do a lot of unspecced work sadly22:38
ograbut we should try to make our planning take such stuff into account for next round22:38
persiaRIght, which is why I want *all* the specs now.22:38
persiaThen we can pick and choose.22:38
ograright, but if we have a similar workload next release we should limit to max two specs per person22:39
ograand pick the right ones22:39
ograand work them out very deeply22:39
persiaSure.  No issues.22:39
persiaLet's trim, but let's get the list together first.22:39
persiaStick in anything you think would be good.  We get as many specs as possible from as many people as possible, and following a guideline like 2 per person means we can get lots more done.22:40
loolAny other topic for today?22:41
ogradoesnt look like22:41
loolOk; let's idle here for some 20 minutes22:41
ografor doing what ?22:41
NCommander[topic] Open Discussion22:41
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion22:41
ograhooray ...22:41
NCommanderShould we just do membership now? Or should I #endmeeting22:43
NCommanderah, well22:44
NCommandermeeting going once22:44
NCommandermeeting going twice22:44
NCommandermeeting going three times22:44
NCommanderThank you all for attending, and thank you all for your hard work in jaunty22:45
MootBotMeeting finished at 16:45.22:45
ograhow far do you count ?22:45
lool _,  _   _   _|           o  _, |)  _|_22:45
lool| / \_/ \_/ |     /|/|  | / | |/\  |22:45
loolArgh ruined22:45
NCommanderlool, O_o;22:45
loolit's ruined22:45
lool _,  _   _   _|           o  _, |)  _|_22:45
lool| / \_/ \_/ |     /|/|  | / | |/\  |22:45
lool\/|/\_/ \_/ \/|_/    | |_/|/\/|/|  |/|_/22:45
lool (|                          (|22:45
ogradidnt work anyway22:45
NCommanderInteresting abstract art22:45
lool                                        22:45
lool _,  _   _   _|           o  _, |)  _|_22:45
lool/ | / \_/ \_/ |     /|/|  | / | |/\  |22:45
lool\/|/\_/ \_/ \/|_/    | |_/|/\/|/|  |/|_/22:45
lool (|                          (|22:45
loolthere it goes, stupid /22:45
NCommanderI still have no idea what "it"'s supposed to be22:46
ogranight lool22:46
StevenKNCommander: "good night" in ASCII cursive art22:46
NCommanderOh, its a bed!22:46
ograNCommander, steop away from your monitor22:46
ograa meter at least22:47
* NCommander doesn't have a meter behind him22:47
StevenKPunch through the wall?22:47
NCommanderThats cool22:47
loolNCommander: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/n.png22:48
* ogra says that too ... and goes afk 22:48

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