[00:19] In ubottu, histo said: !ext4 is To convert ext3 to ext4 in jaunty please see the instructions at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1118295 [03:39] Ops -- Care to test me for port 8001? [03:40] mobi-sheep: read the topic in #ubuntu-read-topic [03:40] test me [03:40] tsimpson: I did. I'm using port 8001. Yet I get #read topic message. [03:41] the test is automated, read the topic for instructions [03:41] tsimpson: Yeah. I use the command in wrong channel. ;o [03:41] there you go [03:42] tsimpson: Got in. Thanks. :O [03:42] no problem [03:42] you can part this channel and go about your business in #ubuntu now [03:45] * genii sips [04:21] Bah. I just saw in -server someone posted a factoid about ubuntu from the #debian bot which seems somewhat derogatory of ubuntu. [04:22] Sorry, ranting [04:22] genii: what does it say? [04:22] Hangone I'll pastebin it [04:23] ok [04:24] http://paste.ubuntu.com/157656/ [04:25] "even if the channel happens to be less helpful" etc [04:26] Eh [04:26] genii: how rude [04:26] Its certainly rude. But Ubuntu is offtopic in #debian [04:27] Anyhow, it just bigged me a bit, I thought they could have been a bit more civil, etc [04:28] *bugged [04:28] genii: indeed [04:30] that's NOT the staement that offended me though.... [04:30] "and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards " [04:30] now THAT is wtf. [04:31] Hehe [04:31] Success breeds jealousy, which results in comments like that. [04:31] I'm a bit disappointed Debian feels that way about Ubuntu [04:32] A simple "We are Debian, not Ubuntu. We only support Debian" would've sufficed. [04:32] there's no need whatsoever to diss Ubuntu in the process [04:32] jdong: That was my take on it [04:33] They make it look like Ubuntu is some bastardized offspring, etc [04:34] yeah with the implication that it's some horrific hackjob that's defective by design [04:35] jdong: I took the "unlikely to live up to Debian's standards" part to mean maybe something like the icewasel vs firefox issue [04:35] *iceweasel [04:35] genii: I took it to mean packaging quality [04:36] DFSG [04:36] Flannel: ? [04:36] the DFSG has little to do with support questions IMO [04:36] Debian Free Software Guidelines [04:36] Ah [04:36] in the context of a support channel, saying that it doesn't live up to Debian implies that it's so broken it's unsupportable. [04:36] jdong: True, but those would be standards that we wouldn't do whatever with [04:36] jdong: They don't support code they can't see? ;) [04:37] lol they can see it :) [04:37] they just can't do everything they want with it [04:44] Anyhow, maybe I should have ranted in -offtopic on it, in hindsight, and not here. Apologies [04:48] Nah, then you'd just get people riled up about it [04:48] and then there'd be people trolling #debian, etc [04:48] not a good situation [04:49] Yeah probably. I'm just reading from http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/debian now about how some Debian bugs get fixed by Ubuntu devs and then patches sent back upstream. I wondered how many of those there are actually. [04:54] There's a lot of back and forth. It's a healthy relationship, and the people who do the work try and keep it as such. Its just the users who try and build walls, etc. [04:57] * genii sighs and goes back to preparing more coffee [05:22] a suggestion for a revision of o4o: [05:22] Some things are inappropriate for ubottu. Some topics are controversial and usually end in flame wars. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, questionably legal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware of this and drop the discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please adhere to Freenode [05:22] Policy for all discussions. [05:22] may need more trimming, it seems. [05:23] the part about please drop if asked is very welcome [05:24] Some things are inappropriate for ubottu. Some topics are controversial and often end in flame wars. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, questionably legal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please adhere to Freenode Policy. [05:24] that fits better [05:25] s/questionably/questionable/ [05:26] Some things are inappropriate for ubottu. Some topics are controversial and often end in flame wars. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please adhere to Freenode Policy. [05:27] I don't understand the ubottu specific thing. Can't o4o be called anywhere? [05:27] it can be, i just called it in PM with him [05:28] i've got no idea the syntax for $this_channel though [05:28] Ah, OK [05:28] one more revision to come... [05:30] Some things are inappropriate for ubottu. Some topics are controversial and often end in fighting. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please always adhere to Freenode Policy. [05:32] Should just replace "ubottu" with "discussion" and then you don't need any $this_channel part..... ;) [05:32] HiBuddy is onjoin spam it seems [05:32] or, some sort of spam [05:34] genii, no, that would get a kneejerk of 'ubuntu is telling me i cant discuss $thing anywhere' [05:35] genii, even saying 'ubuntu' instead of '#ubuntu' ends badly. [05:35] elky: Hm, good point. [05:35] since it would forbid -women etc [05:37] o4o has always been an intensely delicate balancing act [05:51] tsimpson, around? [05:52] yep [05:52] tsimpson, what's the syntax for $channel_name [05:52] $chan [05:52] ta [05:52] :) [05:52] hrm, as opposed to that really is curious [05:53] huh? [05:55] * Flannel waits for HiBuddy to ride the k-train [05:55] such a 'blah is blahdiblah blah blah [05:55] the instance of $chan in the factoid will be replaced with the channel the factoid is called in, you can still use [05:55] !no, o4o is Some things are inappropriate for $chan. Some topics are controversial and often end in fighting. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please always adhere [05:55] to Freenode Policy. [05:55] I'll remember that elky [05:55] that's why ubottu says " Some things are inappropriate for ubottu." in /msg, but " Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-ops." in here [05:55] i bet that's cut off :( [05:56] tsimpson, i know that. but is different syntax to $chan [05:56] elky: Your line was cut off "to freenode policy." was on its own [05:56] note the <> as opposed to $ [05:56] Flannel, i know [05:56] elky: One is a command, the other is a variable. [05:56] they are different things, plus, I didn't write it ;) [05:56] you know, i never thought of it that way. [05:57] it follows the supybot syntax though [05:57] like in the original Factoid plugin I think [05:57] it cuts off worse in pm... wth [05:58] can someone with irssi try it, you might have better limits [05:58] Superior IRC client, eh? ;) [05:58] no, differential coding [05:58] It's ok. You can just admit irssi is superior [05:58] i dont consider anything i have to apologise for spamming /win4 etc into a channel as superior [05:59] now, could you try please [05:59] i'm going to be late for the release party i'm holding. faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar out [05:59] !o4o [05:59] Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-ops. Some topics are controversial and often end in fighting. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please always adhere to F [06:00] Better, but still no joy [06:00] !no, o4o is Some things are inappropriate for $chan. Some topics are controversial and often end in fighting. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please always adhere [06:00] I'll remember that Flannel [06:00] !o4o [06:00] Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-ops. Some topics are controversial and often end in fighting. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Microsoft software is discussed in ##windows. Apple software in ##mac. Please always adher [06:00] right, queries are better for irssi. [06:00] it's too long, 512bytes is the max for an IRC message, including "your@hostmask PRIVMSG #chan :msg" [06:01] Looks like it'll just have to be made shorter. [06:02] !no, o4o is Some things are inappropriate for $chan. Some topics are controversial and often end in fighting. War, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide regularly upset people. Please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked. Please discuss these rules themselves only in #ubuntu-ops. Discuss Microsoft in ##windows and Apple in ##mac. Please always adhere to Freenode Policy. [06:02] I'll remember that elky [06:02] YAY! [06:03] now, i really gotta go [06:07] @login [06:07] The operation succeeded. [06:08] !freenode policy is In addition to Ubuntu IRC !guidelines, there are some policies that govern the Freenode network as a whole. These can be found at http://freenode.net/policy.shtml [06:08] I'll remember that, tonyyarusso [06:09] The ubottu bot is out of date on the !jaunty entry. [06:10] !jaunty [06:10] Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 - Please use !torrents [06:10] SJr: the release notes link you mean? [06:11] Yeah [06:11] !jaunty ~= /810/904/ [06:11] I'll remember that tonyyarusso [06:11] !jaunty [06:11] Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904 - Please use !torrents [06:11] SJr: Thanks. [06:11] wow [06:11] Your welcome [06:11] talk to you later [07:04] gnite [09:15] bah, rain [09:40] jackjohnson finally speaks, albeit through lazermouse. *now* he wants me to pay attention [09:47] feel free to get him here if you want [09:47] heh [09:49] Myrtti: all yours, i told him [09:50] of course, he now fell silent [09:51] topyli: it's you who should do the talking to him here ;-) [09:51] he tried [09:51] *crickets* [09:52] jackjohnson, how may we help you [09:52] for how long will i be banned from ubuntu-offtopic? i will idle until i get an answer [09:52] jackjohnson, that is not the way it works [09:52] bazhang++ [09:53] jackjohnson, why were you banned there [09:56] jackjohnson: channels are meant for two way conversation. This channel is no exception. if you cannot produce answers to our questions, you'll be removed from here and bans remain. [09:59] !idle | jackjohnson [09:59] jackjohnson: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. [10:00] jackjohnson: welcome back with replies and some of that twoway conversation [10:04] *sigh* [10:05] righto, time to get dressed and head out back to London [10:07] ubottu, she is dead. [10:07] we ping jussi01, right? [10:08] Or... someone on council? [10:08] That also knows the secretive secret to reboot it. [10:08] * Flannel stops rambling. [10:35] good morning [10:35] Known issue. [10:35] ububot is dead? [10:40] and there goes another one [10:40] Yeah, made some changes to scripts and did something slightly wrong, back soon. [10:42] jpds: You made them sentient and now they're mounting an uprising? [10:43] aha [10:43] Flannel: No, made changes to their database backup scripts; and purged the DB. [13:04] kick me [13:07] DBO elky Pricey Myrtti Mez mneptok Pricey: Anyone care to oblige? [13:09] jussi01: tonyyarusso ^ [13:33] no, not yet. [13:33] jackjohnson: why would we want to do that? [13:34] for how long will i be banned from ubuntu-offtopic? i will idle until i get an answer [13:34] this is the 3rd time he has tried this. [13:34] jackjohnson: its simple really, Ill remove you if you dont answer, due to channel policy. [13:34] bazhang: I have read, got it ;) [13:35] jussi01, okay :) [13:38] jackjohnson, we do not bow to blackmail. trying to blackmail is an automatic extention of a ban. so the answer is, how long do you want to be banned for? [13:38] jackjohnson: ok, your ban will last as long as it lasts there is no set time, However if you decide to change your attitude you may come back and explain that change, and we will then consider it. [13:39] jackjohnson: if you do not answer, I will remove you from this channel once again. [13:42] w00t [13:51] @login [13:51] The operation succeeded. [14:11] Greetings to all === panarchy is now known as Panarchy [14:11] Panarchy, how may we help you [14:11] Requesting release of ban from the #ubuntu channel. [14:11] elky: you around? [14:11] jussi01, yes [14:12] Thanks in advance guys! [14:13] Sorry to sound impatient, but would it be at all possible for my ban on the #ubuntu channel to be relinquished? I've been banned for quite a few months now, and would really appreciate being invited back to the channel. [14:15] Panarchy, what assurance do we have you will not behave like you did before? [14:16] Well I've now started work (full-time). I've done complete research into becoming an official ubuntu packager, and have been working on improving myself entirely. [14:16] :B [14:16] B: [14:17] so you no longer plan to make threats, spam nonsense or discuss inappropriate topics? [14:17] Of course. [14:17] seems you still plan to spam nonsense. [14:17] No, not at all [14:17] :B [14:17] B: [14:17] meaning none of that^^ [14:18] It's just that I sounded (after reading what I wrote) a little full of myself, so I wanted to give of a [14:18] 'friendlier' feel to my writing [14:18] i dont care why you think you need to do it. [14:18] i just want assurance you wont do it [14:19] Certainly. I assure you that I won't do it again. [14:21] Now, if you could be so kind, would you please liberate me of my ban? [14:21] as soon as i find it. [14:22] well. as soon as i find all of them [14:22] ban dodging makes ban removal take a long time [14:22] Great, thank you. [14:23] Take your time, I'll be off to bed pretty soon, so as long as you can finish the unbanning process within 5 hours, I'll be happy. [14:24] elky, check out #freenode [14:24] bazhang, he's not actually done anything since april 1 [14:25] there's a hostban in #k too [14:25] bazhang, both he and fujisan are acting completely different [14:25] elky, the whole 'don't know what happened to my cloak' is what I was referring to [14:25] Sorry about that, pressed an incorrect keyboard shortcut. [14:25] bazhang, chances are he doesnt [14:26] aha [14:26] Panarchy, lifted for #ubuntu i think. we'll reevaluate the other channels based on the next few days behaviour. [14:26] Great, thanks. [14:27] Just testing, did you see what I've just written there? [14:27] (oh, someone else did, thanks again, excellent news) [14:27] the sudden change in both he and fujisan is... intriguing. [14:28] imo, fujisan was always like that [14:29] seemed like they'd changed, then reverted when under some "stress" [14:29] no wai. first question out of the box. [14:30] when fujisan lost their cloak and started being active in #k I watched for a few days. old behaviour soon returned [14:39] tsimpson, either way, it's easy enough to re-ban them [14:40] and yet we don't... [14:45] Im running Ubuntu 4.10 right now [14:48] how much leeway to give Panarchy? [14:49] the same you'd give anyone else [14:50] erm not really familiar with the whole Panarchy saga, are you Seeker` [14:50] why does it matter what history someone has? [14:51] if someone is doing something "wrong", they need to be warned / kicked / banned [14:51] indeed. a fresh slate for all [14:51] regardless of who they are [14:51] bazhang, commonsense will tell you when it's enough. [14:51] including asustek, groovyorange and the like [14:51] bazhang: no, not a fresh slate for all, just the same rules applied to everyone [14:52] hi [14:52] everyone, type in: /clear [14:52] what the heck? [14:52] Sorry, I'm tired and was getting dizzy with the screen [14:52] i let you back in on good faith and you pull crap like that? [14:52] Thought it was a fun thing to do [14:53] Sorry man, it's past midnight here, not thinking as clearly as I should be [14:53] no, it's not. [14:53] Okay, won't happen again [14:53] Anyways, I'm off. [14:53] Thanks for all your help elky [14:53] dont let me down. [14:53] (if you'd noticed, I did help a number of people with there problems) [14:53] i did notice, which is why i asked you here rather than nuking you [14:54] Thanks for that [14:54] It'll be a good channel to go into tomorrow, to discuss the rules file (within the debian folder). [14:54] Well, see ya then. [14:55] * Panarchy leaves ("Bye Everyone!") [14:55] is he banned from -motu? [14:56] no, he's not. [14:56] doesn't look like it [14:56] i'll memoserv him [14:59] oh ugh! [14:59] radithz: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation. [14:59] radithz: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation. [14:59] radithz: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation. [14:59] nnnnnnnnnnnot good [14:59] rolleyes [14:59] elky: you see that because you're opped. [14:59] channel is +z, that's the way the floodbots work. [14:59] oh? [14:59] i'd not actually seen that before [15:00] *everything* the bots do or say, aside from a very limited number of things, is always done by the three of them. [15:00] only, you don't see it, because two of them are normally not opped. [15:00] and they're muted. [15:00] aha [15:03] err [15:03] about the current !o4o [15:03] what was the rationale being apple software in ##mac? [15:04] perhaps we should add amiga software in #amiga, etc? [15:04] also, at this pace, i'm starting to agree with people who seem to think it could simply say "please abstain from talking in this channel" for short [15:05] anything that looks remotely like support - BAM [15:05] anything that's related to other operating systems - BAM [15:10] back later, time for shopiing [15:12] LjL, right, so we should *only* expell windows discussions? [15:14] i would just prefer "remember that this is still an ubuntu channel. try to use a brain" :) [15:21] Ampelbein called the ops in #ubuntu-bugs () [15:24] topyli: sounds good [15:24] also, I read that Seeker` is going shoplifting, I need glasses/sleep [15:25] you see right through him! [15:32] topyli, the problem is the quality of brains being used. some of them are grossly flawed. [16:01] elky: that's where you come in, offering friendly cluebat help :) [16:02] but how can we do that, when we havent told them they have to use a non-flawed brain. [16:06] the current list of deadly sins is not a very effective way to educate flawed brains either. all it does is make them read the list and find stuff that's not mentioned there [16:25] topyli, 'intolerance' and 'discrimination' do not work at all. when we were so loose as that, we had arguments based on intolerant of discrimination is intolerance, discriminating against intolerance is discrimination -- and more on the 'but you didnt explicitly state we cant! [16:26] the deadly sins has worked remarkably better than the looser versions ever did. [16:26] and they were failing on less users [16:27] perhaps [16:28] if you'd like to seriously reword the o4o in a manner that does not open either of the above loopholes, then by all means [16:42] MRToilet called the ops in #ubuntu () [16:46] you ops cant see me [16:47] NTFS: how can we help you/ [16:47] you cant see me Seeker` [16:48] how oculd I help you if i could see you? [16:48] idk [16:48] some cena joke [16:48] !guidelines [16:48] The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines [16:49] In #ubuntu, ripps said: !intel is The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, you can fix it by reading these links and installing either unofficial upgrades or downgrades. [16:51] In ubottu, ripps said: !intel is The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, you can fix it by reading these links and installing either unofficial upgrades or downgrades. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance http://www.ubuntugeek.com/sound-solutions-for-ubuntu-904-jaunty-users.html https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReinhardTartler/X/RevertingIntelDriverTo2.4 [16:52] for crying out loud, what arcane magic is required to indent text on a new line in moin? [16:59] Could someone please approve the !intel alias, it would make helping people with intel problems in #ubuntu much easier [17:01] what does the second link have to do with it? [17:01] ripps, a list of links will only confuse people more. are any of those links already on the other pages? [17:01] and yeah, what Seeker` said [17:03] elky: I believe the the first link, links to the third at the bottom. But I insist on the second link, it's a guide to upgrading the driver in easy to follow directions. [17:04] it's for sound. the issues are graphics [17:06] !intel is The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, read here about what you do about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance http://www.ubuntugeek.com/intel-graphics-performance-guide-for-ubuntu-904-jaunty-users.html [17:06] In #ubuntu-ops, ripps said: !intel is The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, read here about what you do about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance http://www.ubuntugeek.com/intel-graphics-performance-guide-for-ubuntu-904-jaunty-users.html [17:07] seeker, elky: there, sorry I pasted the wrong link [17:07] ugh, the ads on ubuntugeek's site are... not ideal [17:08] i just opened to one offering me a new driver [17:09] elky: Ah, it appears ubuntugeek took it from an ubuntuforums source, I substitute that instead. [17:09] ripps, sorry, but i'm not going to support advice that tells people to install stuff they download from http://ftp.us.debian.org/d [17:10] !intel is The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, read here about what you do about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1130582 [17:10] In #ubuntu-ops, ripps said: !intel is The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, read here about what you do about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1130582 [17:11] elky: how about that? [17:11] no. that second link is out. it tells people to install debian packages on their ubuntu system. [17:13] when it comes to enabling and/or ficing hardware, i think referencing only the official Ubuntu docs and packages is the best approach [17:13] *fixing [17:13] !intel The intel driver in Jaunty is buggy due to architectural changes related to the switch to DRI2/UXA, read here about what you do about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/IntelPerformance [17:13] I'll remember that, elky [17:14] mneptok, exactly. [17:14] elky: thanks, I can understand leaving it out. [17:15] I'll keep the second link on hand if people want to know how use that method. [17:15] ripps, please dont suggest to our users to download debian packages. it never ends well. [17:15] ripps: i'd advise against that. [17:15] strongly [17:16] mneptok: what if i'm able to find a PPA? [17:18] Why is that page on w.u.c and not h.u.c? [17:18] Flannel, because it's new, probably [17:19] That's not exactly how that works, but sure. [17:19] Flannel, it's only started 2009-04-15 15:41:52 [17:20] mneptok: I found an equivalent package of the intel driver in the the ubuntu-x-swat ppa [17:20] Right. But that doesn't mean anything. h.u.c/community is for all troubleshooting/etc stuff (regardless of maturity), whereas w.u.c is just for team stuff [17:21] Flannel, ask the people who manage h.u.c then [17:22] Er... no one manages the help wiki? It's a wiki. [17:22] Whoever made that page on wiki.ubuntu.com is just horribly old fashioned [17:22] my understanding was that things sat on wiki until it was green-lighted for help [17:22] Nah [17:22] thats how it used to be [17:23] Its exactly the same as it used to be, except help stuff goes on help and team stuff goes on teams [17:23] We're talking about help.ubuntu.com/community not the userguide stuff [17:23] * elky shrugs [17:23] move it across then. it's a wiki. [17:24] Ah. It's because it's part of the X team [17:25] why is crdlb telling people to message some random bot for a factoid? [17:27] crdlb, what is fusiobot? [17:27] the #compiz bot [17:28] why are you asking #ubuntu people to /msg it? [17:28] maybe it would be easier to add a similar factoid to ubottu [17:29] Or just give them the information. asking them to message it didn't turn out so well. [17:29] indeed :/ [17:30] ripps: PPAs for drivers make me nervous. who is the maintainer? what is their level of expertise? why is it that they need a PPA and cannot update the official package? [17:31] mneptok: I found a better ppa that's maintained by the "Intel graphics driver testing" team at ~intel-gfx-testing [17:34] or asking them to join the appropriate support channel [17:35] ripps: my point is that if a driver is seriously broken, a PPA is not the correct way to deal with the issue. a cogent, thoughtful bug report on LP leading to a new package is the correct way. [17:36] ripps: IOW, if you're making a PPA and not following the standard procedure, it's probably not a good idea to trust the PPA maintainer. [17:36] mneptok: the issue isn't the driver alone, it's the kernel, people need to use the 2.6.30 kernel to fix intel graphics. [17:37] mneptok: it's a flow in Jaunty itself [17:37] ripps: so then they should wait for the official packages to be updated [17:37] ripps: if it's a major Jaunty problem, it will be fixed quickly. [17:37] ripps: suggestig people use unofficial and unsupported fixes is a bad idea [17:38] ripps: becuase it may break other things (subtle things or not), which may involve other unsupported things to fix etc. etc. [17:38] ripps: it's like you find out your car has a recall from the manufacturer, and instead of taking it to the dealership you take it to your local tech high school's auto class. [17:38] Bad Idea(tm) [17:39] Can I just point out this mail to the ubuntu-devel list? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-April/028182.html [17:39]