[00:00] <ha1331> it's bit disturbin, considering that the ML110 is dual core, pricing just 500€ and still it manages to humiliate ML350 that is quad core and in the 2000€ price range
[00:00] <ha1331> 4x price less than half the performance... smells weird to me....
[00:06] <ha1331> when I do: dd if=/dev/zero of=/serverData/fast/d1p0/vm8.img bs=1024k count=1000 Iget 80-105MB/s on ML350 but when I had it on ML110 I got ~250MB/s
[00:06] <ha1331> sorry
[00:38] <foxbuntu> ha1331, its likely your raid core card on the ML350, I suggest you make sure you have the latest firmware for both the Disk and RAID controller installed
[00:38] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I use the ML350 G5 allot, its a great platform for the Small-to-Medium business world
[00:42] <cybersplice> Do any of you fine folks cluster with ubuntu?
[00:44] <foxbuntu> !ask | cybersplice
[00:46] <cybersplice> Ok. Does anyone have a workaround for the infuriating bug in the pacemaker package?
[00:49] <cybersplice> As they say in the east midlands: bigger.
[00:49] <cybersplice> Bugger! Damned word substitution.
[01:22] <ha1331> foxbuntu: machinis brand new, like two days old. It could still have old firmware? Disk is kingston ssd now e-series 32G
[01:22] <ha1331> controller is E200i 128M with the battery package
[01:23] <foxbuntu> ha1331, yeah they ship with old firmware
[01:23] <foxbuntu> ha1331, almost always need to upgrade them
[01:24] <ha1331> disapointing is the word that comes to mind....
[01:24] <foxbuntu> ha1331, every mfg does it
[01:24] <foxbuntu> ha1331, they include the latest on their smartstart disk, but you cant install Ubuntu with that
[01:25] <ha1331> how can I do that, is it possible using linux, or am I going to install some windows to use some awesome flash utility in dos?
[01:25] <foxbuntu> ha1331, naw you should be able to flash it from Ubuntu as well
[01:27] <ha1331> foxbuntu: You think that old firmware can explain performance loss from 250MB/s to 80-100MB/s?
[01:27] <foxbuntu> ha1331, yup
[01:27] <ha1331> it's just mind puzzling because the ML110 has some crappu soft raid and still it manages to outperform
[01:27] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I have seen a firmware mismatch between disk and controller cause a loss of 15% before
[01:28] <ha1331> 15% is nothing... we are talking about over 60%
[01:28] <foxbuntu> ha1331, Im talking just one version difference
[01:28] <ha1331> ok
[01:29] <foxbuntu> I have seen controller firmware on a dell server cripple the server
[01:32] <ha1331>  if nothing else helps, I'm gonna buy some 50$ sata controller and do soft raid. That would seriously suck tho.
[01:32] <foxbuntu> ha1331, you need to make sure all the firmware on that thing is up to date
[01:33] <foxbuntu> ha1331, are you on SATA drives or SAS with the ML350?
[01:34] <ha1331> have 2* 146G 10k sas on raid 1 and one Kingston ssd, waiting to get another to get them on raid 1 also
[01:35] <foxbuntu> are you running the SSD for the OS or the SAS?
[01:35] <ha1331> ssd is sata
[01:35] <ha1331> sas for os
[01:35] <ha1331> planning to put db and websites on the ssd
[01:35] <foxbuntu> so the speed test you did was from SAS -> SATA?
[01:35] <foxbuntu> or SATA -> SAS
[01:36] <foxbuntu> or SAS -> SAS?
[01:36] <ha1331> when I do: dd if=/dev/zero of=/serverData/fast/d1p0/vm8.img bs=1024k count=1000 Iget 80-105MB/s on ML350 but when I had it on ML110 I got ~250MB/s
[01:36] <ha1331> that on ssd
[01:36] <foxbuntu> oh
[01:36] <ha1331> sas gets me about 80MB/s
[01:36] <foxbuntu> so the speed issues is with the SSD
[01:36] <foxbuntu> on SATA
[01:37] <ha1331> well, same disk used on both machines
[01:37] <ha1331> and sas gives me 70-80MB/s
[01:37] <ha1331> on ML110 Iget 45-55MB/s
[01:37] <foxbuntu> well you will take a big performance hit with RAID, thats normal
[01:37] <ha1331> on 7200 SATA
[01:38] <ha1331> foxbuntudont quite understand that... how can having one disk on real raid controller drop the write speed from 250->80MB/s
[01:39] <ha1331> that's just stupid
[01:39] <foxbuntu> ha1331, you said SAS was RAID1
[01:39] <foxbuntu> @ 80MB/s
[01:39] <ha1331> it was and it still out performs the SATA on ML110
[01:39] <foxbuntu> what?
[01:40] <foxbuntu> you losing me
[01:40] <ha1331> ok... starting from the begining
[01:40] <foxbuntu> ha1331, what is the current and exact config we are dealing with
[01:40] <foxbuntu> ML350 only
[01:42] <ha1331> I have two machines... ML110 with 2x250G 7200RPM sata on raid 1 and ML350 with 2x 146G/10k/rpm on raid 1. Then I have one Kingston ssd disk. If I put it to ML110 I get ¨250MB/s, on ML350 I get 80-100MB/s
[01:43] <ha1331> using the onboard Smart array e200i 128MB with the battery pack
[01:43] <ha1331> on ML350
[01:43] <ha1331> ML110 uses some crappy soft raid
[01:43] <foxbuntu> ha1331, ok, on the ML350 G5 as I recall, there are a few on-board sata ports and then then a port on the controller (that is if its the PCIe SAS Contoller)
[01:43] <ha1331> it's onboard
[01:43] <foxbuntu> where did you plug in the sata for the SSD on the ML350
[01:44] <foxbuntu> ok
[01:44] <ha1331> using the bay infront
[01:44] <ha1331> it's sas afterall
[01:44] <foxbuntu> what is sas?
[01:44] <ha1331> and no other option, there is no sata ports on boarad
[01:44] <ha1331> the controller is SAS
[01:44] <foxbuntu> right
[01:45] <VK7HSE> foxbuntu:  Special Air Service! :P
[01:45] <ha1331> one could say it's really special....flying reeeeeally slow
[01:45] <foxbuntu> VK7HSE, I might be more entertained if I wasn't so frustrated with the moving target ;)
[01:46] <VK7HSE> foxbuntu:  LOL !!!
[01:46] <foxbuntu> ha1331, one thing you might check on the ML350, is how the BIOS is configured for the SATA ports
[01:47] <ha1331> foxbuntu ok, I can definately do that, but I'm not sure there actually is setting for the ports.
[01:47]  * foxbuntu notes that he normally changes clients $150/hr for this kind of support
[01:48] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I am pretty sure there are options for the ob-board sata (I think something to do with raid emulation mode or similar)
[01:48] <ha1331> foxbuntu don't want to waste your time if your busy or getting frustrated
[01:49] <foxbuntu> ha1331, no, its fine I don't mind helping in here. Im just busting on you a little bit. The frustration comes from an IRC communication barrier
[01:52] <ha1331> ok, good to know. Just dont like to waste other peoples time, even in irc or internet in general. Grateful for the help I get.
[01:52] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I believe in the community and I get allot from it, and try to give as much back
[01:53] <ha1331> booting the server now
[01:53] <ha1331> let's see what I can find
[01:53] <foxbuntu> k
[01:56] <ha1331> only thing on bios that even mentions smart array or similar is the setting for IRQ
[01:57] <ha1331> there is the cnfigurtion possibility of the arrays during boot, but one can only manage the arrays
[01:57] <ha1331> definately nothing with ports anywhere
[01:58] <ha1331> browsed thru every menu on bios
[01:59] <ha1331> I bet I need some software to interct with the controller, cause I "know" that one can even set the ratio for read and write memory
[02:03] <foxbuntu> ha1331, on boot you can access the array controller
[02:05] <foxbuntu> ha1331, did the server come with a license of windows?
[02:05] <foxbuntu> or do you have one?
[02:05]  * foxbuntu really hates to suggest this, but it might b the easiest
[02:06] <foxbuntu> ha1331, just slap a copy of windows on it, download the HP PSP, get it all up to date (firmware, BIOS ect) and then reload it with Ubuntu
[02:06] <foxbuntu> be sure to install windows with the SmartStart disk
[02:07] <ha1331> nope, no windows license... have done lot of suggesting, blackmailing and yelling to get rid of windows at the work
[02:07] <foxbuntu> hmm
[02:07] <foxbuntu> lets have a look at the firmware and such for that machine
[02:08] <ha1331> when I access the array configuration utility on boot, it says Note: fr more configuration options use the HP Array configuratin utility
[02:08] <foxbuntu> oh they have debian releases now
[02:09] <foxbuntu> oh just for the mgmt app
[02:09] <ha1331> only thing to do on Option Rom Configuration utility is to manage the array
[02:09] <foxbuntu> yup
[02:10] <foxbuntu> :/
[02:11] <ha1331> suck's to be me... glad the owner doesn't understand anything even related to computers.... i'm on a personal mission, after all I spent about 4000€ of the owners money on this thing .9
[02:12] <foxbuntu> well another option would be to install a trial of VMWare ESX 3.5 on it, they do support firmware and such from that as well
[02:12] <foxbuntu> hmm
[02:12] <foxbuntu> looks like only the BIOS though
[02:13] <ha1331> one would think that hp had some options for the sane people avoiding windows on servers
[02:13] <foxbuntu> they do
[02:14] <foxbuntu> they support quite a few more than most
[02:14] <foxbuntu> Im just trying to find your best option
[02:14] <ha1331> ok, thanks for that
[02:15] <ha1331> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DriverDownload.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodNameId=3182559&taskId=135&prodTypeId=329290&prodSeriesId=1157688&lang=en&cc=us&submit=Go%20%C2%BB
[02:16] <ha1331> no debian or ubuntu tho
[02:16] <foxbuntu> ha1331, here ya go :) http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=0&prodSeriesId=1121586&prodNameId=3279711&swEnvOID=1068&swLang=8&mode=2&taskId=135&swItem=MTX-3d1aaa0b48c04b628789e598d3
[02:17] <foxbuntu> an o/s independant firmware update disk
[02:17] <foxbuntu> thats what I was looking for
[02:18] <ha1331> awesome.... if it wouldn't be gayish, I'dd say that I love you...
[02:18] <foxbuntu> lol
[02:18] <ha1331> downloading
[02:19] <foxbuntu> I thought they had one, but the stopped shipping with the servers some time ago
[02:20] <ha1331> this should work, using my last disk to burn it and it's dvd :D
[02:20] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I prob maintain 40 or so of these ML350 G5s
[02:20] <ha1331> foxbuntu what do you think about the machine?
[02:21] <foxbuntu> I love them, recommend them to all my clients.
[02:21] <twb> ha1331: you don't know that foxbuntu is a feller.
[02:21] <ha1331> I already ordered more memory and another ssd. In week or so I should have 10G ram and raid 1 ssd array for db and web-server
[02:21] <foxbuntu> ha1331, seems a bit overkill for that, but...meh to each their own I guess
[02:22] <ha1331> foxbuntu: well... not my money and the owner wanted to get it right on the first try :D
[02:22] <foxbuntu> ha1331, what you might want to consider, VMWare ESXi as a host and then split the DB and Apache up
[02:23] <ha1331> isn't there performance loss for using that?
[02:23] <foxbuntu> not really
[02:23] <foxbuntu> I mean there is but...
[02:23] <ha1331> so, it's better than the KVM on linux?
[02:23] <foxbuntu> oh yeah
[02:23] <foxbuntu> lots better
[02:24] <foxbuntu> light years better
[02:24] <ha1331> how much does it cost to get one of those?
[02:24] <foxbuntu> ESXi is free
[02:24] <ha1331> really?
[02:24] <foxbuntu> yup
[02:24] <ha1331> that's cool
[02:24] <twb> ITYM free-of-charge
[02:25] <foxbuntu> twb, ITYM?
[02:25] <twb> I Think You Mean
[02:25] <foxbuntu> oh yea
[02:25] <foxbuntu> not Ubuntu Free, but not cost
[02:25] <foxbuntu> :)
[02:25] <twb> Well, it's not "zero cost" any more than Ubuntu is.
[02:25] <ha1331> so, ESXi is like KVM but better?
[02:25] <foxbuntu> uh
[02:25] <foxbuntu> no
[02:26] <ha1331> :D
[02:26] <foxbuntu> while its a VM Host, its an O/S
[02:26] <ha1331> sensing disturbance in the force...
[02:26] <foxbuntu> not something you install on top of an O/S
[02:26] <twb> ha1331: KVM is Ubuntu's officially recommended virtualization technology.  It is also the one supported by the vanilla Linux kernel.
[02:26] <foxbuntu> twb, yeah...
[02:26] <twb> ESXi is basically a cut-down version of Linux that you can't do anything with, except run virtual environments.
[02:27] <foxbuntu> yes
[02:27] <twb> There's no reason you can't do the exact same thing with Ubuntu on the hardware node.
[02:27] <ha1331> foxbuntu one can manage the ESXi using ssh and all that?
[02:27] <twb> Whether ESXi or KVM does a better job, is another issue.
[02:27] <foxbuntu> ha1331, yes, but not reccommended to do so
[02:27] <twb> Personally I have been consistently appalled with VMWare's other software, particularly vmware-server.
[02:28] <foxbuntu> twb, ESXi is far better at resource management and has much lower overhead than KVM
[02:28] <foxbuntu> twb, you can't base things off vmware-server, thats a turd in a basket
[02:28] <twb> Granted.
[02:29] <foxbuntu> ha1331, one thing to note, you will want to get more local storage
[02:29] <foxbuntu> ESXi does not allow iSCSI or anything else, it all has to be local
[02:29] <foxbuntu> thats the draw back to the freebie version
[02:30] <ha1331> so basicly I  would install ESXi and on top of that couple of Ubuntu's? Should I expect installation issues, maybe days of googling just to get the keyboard work on the host?
[02:30] <foxbuntu> if you go to the paid ESX server, its a whole different story
[02:30] <foxbuntu> ha1331, nope
[02:30] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I personally run ubuntu-server on ESX
[02:30] <foxbuntu> works like a charm
[02:30] <foxbuntu> ESX and ESXi have built in support for Ubuntu
[02:31] <foxbuntu> and HP has support for ESX :D
[02:31] <ha1331> storage is not an issue. not expecting to get even 30G of data on next 5years
[02:31] <foxbuntu> ha1331, not a problem, I just wanted to be clear in my advice
[02:32] <ha1331> foxbuntu thats nice. Going to get the ESXi now.
[02:32] <foxbuntu> ha1331, then VMWare allow snapshots as well
[02:32] <foxbuntu> with the hardware you have, I say its a win
[02:33] <ha1331> On ESX it supports snapshots?
[02:33] <ha1331> but not on esxi
[02:33] <foxbuntu> no ESXi does as well
[02:33] <ha1331> cool
[02:34] <foxbuntu> ESXi just doesnt allow all the fancy stuff that ESX can do, like vmware consolidated backup, vsphere, ect
[02:34] <foxbuntu> vMotion
[02:34] <foxbuntu> but you only have one host server at this point anyhow
[02:34] <foxbuntu> so most of that doesnt matter anyhow
[02:35] <ar> Hi :)
[02:35] <foxbuntu> ha1331, I deployed my VMWare ESX server and 4 guest o/s's in ~3-4 hours
[02:35] <ar> Can anyone recommend a free hosting control panel?
[02:36] <ha1331> okay. I still need to install one xp just because of one crappy software they use, so I might as well install it on esxi instead of kvm on top of ubuntu
[02:36] <foxbuntu> yup
[02:36] <ar> please
[02:36] <foxbuntu> you will get three machines out of this one
[02:36] <ar> any recommendations form veterans
[02:36] <foxbuntu> ar, patience is a virtue
[02:36] <foxbuntu> :)
[02:37] <ar> ok sorry
[02:37] <foxbuntu> ha1331, XP will work just fine on ESXi as well
[02:37] <ha1331> foxbuntu how about i/o performance, what should I expect? db and web server performance wise?
[02:37] <ha1331> not counting the orginal problem I have :D
[02:37] <foxbuntu> ha1331, unless you exceed 7500 hits the the DB server / min, you wont see the difference
[02:38] <ha1331> ok... not expecting that to happen :D
[02:38] <foxbuntu> ha1331, apache wont even matter
[02:39] <ha1331> foxbuntu is it possibe to limit the windows installation to one core?
[02:39] <foxbuntu> ha1331, VMware handle per core operations, you just assign the number of virtual proc you want
[02:40] <ha1331> Have seen windows xp do pretty odd things and wouldn't want to see it drain all the resources just because it suck's
[02:40] <foxbuntu> ha1331, and when you assign the ram, it does allocate it, its just the max it will allow the machine to consume, so if your DB server is eating more it wont affect your apache server
[02:40] <ha1331> that's cool
[02:40] <foxbuntu> ha1331, you wont have to worry about it
[02:41] <foxbuntu> ha1331, the resource management in VMware is just awesome
[02:43] <foxbuntu> ha1331, we are starting to move a bit out of topic, so please join me in #foxmediasystems
[02:43] <ha1331> sound's cool.
[02:45] <ar> anyone recommend a starter host control panel?
[02:50] <twb> If you mean something like cPanel, IMO *every* FOSS solution sucks.
[02:55] <ar> thanks twb
[02:55] <ar> is cpanel a FOSS solution?
[03:35] <Sylphid> hey all im having a problem with a kernel upgrade on my server
[03:35] <Sylphid> im running 8.04 and upgraded to the 24-23 kernel
[03:36] <Sylphid> when i try to boot to that kernel grub reports an error 15 file not found on the vmlinuz file
[03:36] <Sylphid> but the file exists
[03:36] <Sylphid> could anyone give me an md5sum of theirs please?
[03:44] <Sylphid> amd64
[03:46] <ball> Sylphid: ARM
[03:46] <ball> What was the question?
[03:48] <Sylphid> when i try to boot to the 24-23-server kernel grub reports an error 15 file not found on the vmlinuz file
[03:48] <Sylphid> but the file exists
[03:49] <ball> Ah right.
[03:49] <twb`> Sylphid: IME most often this is /boot/foo vs. /foo in the menu.lst
[03:49] <Sylphid> twb`, checked that and everything is fine
[03:49] <twb`> Go into the grub editor and try to use tab completion to complete the file, and see what it lists.
[03:50]  * ball attempts an upgrade to Jaunty
[03:50] <ball> ...then I'll clean up... Jaunty Janitor
[03:53] <Sylphid> twb, the weird thing is in a grub cli the vmlinuz file will tab complete for the new version .... so i dont see why im getting a file not found error
[03:57] <twb> Sylphid: are you completing with (hd0,0)/boot, or just /boot?
[03:57] <Sylphid> twb, im setting my root to (hd0,0)
[03:57] <Sylphid> then /vmlinuz
[03:58] <twb> Just "/vmlinuz" is usually a symlink.
[03:58] <twb> You should be specifying a full kernel.
[03:58] <Sylphid> it is specified
[03:58] <Sylphid> sorry was lazy
[03:58] <Sylphid> =P
[03:58] <Sylphid> no symlink
[04:00] <Sylphid> twb, http://paste.ubuntu.com/157645/     heres my grub -19 works -23 doesnt
[04:01] <twb> I can't see why that wouldn't work
[04:01] <twb> Unless /boot is 100% full
[04:01] <twb> (In which case maybe the install failed)
[04:02] <Sylphid> nope only 23% full
[04:03] <Sylphid> twb, you wouldnt happen to have a working amd64 24-23 kernel they you could provide an md5sum of the vmlinuz file?
[04:04] <twb> Sorry, no.
[04:04] <twb> But the file checksums are in /var/lib/dpkg/list or .../info
[04:04] <twb> IIRC /var/lib/dpkg/info/<package>.list
[04:06] <Sylphid> twb, thanks.... unfortunatly they match
[04:06] <ar> found a pretty cool hosting control panel http://www.virtualmin.com/video-introduction.html
[04:07] <Sylphid> ar, AFAIK virtualmin doesnt play nice with ubuntu
[04:07] <ar> :(
[04:07] <Sylphid> ar, i believe the supported ubuntu solution is called ebox
[04:07] <ar> can you suggest to me a good control panel Sylphid
[04:07] <Sylphid> if i remember correctly
[04:07] <ar> I have ebox installed
[04:08] <ar> but it doesnt do emails, and all other things right?
[04:08] <Sylphid> ar, cant say that i have ever used ebox ... sorry
[04:08] <ar> yeah I have it installed and really its for quick server management, database back ups and such
[04:09] <ar> Ubuntu is Debian right?
[04:09] <ar> http://wiki.debian.org/HostingControlPanels
[04:10] <twb> ar: that is completely wrong.
[04:10] <ball> !monkeys
[04:10] <ar> ohh.. sorry
[04:10] <ball> !debian
[04:10] <slestak> hi guys,  is sed the right tool to break an existing file into new files at every } char?
[04:11] <ar> anyone can recommend a good hosting control panel?
[04:11] <ball> slestak: I use head and tail for that
[04:11] <twb> 13:15 <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>).  Only Debian is supported on #debian.  Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead.  Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian.  See also <based on debian>.
[04:11] <ball> slestak: but there are probably other tools also
[04:11] <Sylphid> slestak, awk ... sed.... split....
[04:12] <Sylphid> slestak, pick your poison
[04:12] <slestak> vim almost does it.  :1,4 w newfile does the create, but i have to follow it up with deletign the lines manually
[04:13] <slestak> and i have to do each manually, but at least its is names correctly as it is made
[04:13] <slestak> split will not do it, it is based on size, not on a arbitrary search pattern
[04:14] <ball> slestak: head & tail works for me
[04:15] <slestak> ball: can you give me a hint how that works?
[04:15] <slestak> i know how those tools work, not sure how they would do this
[04:15] <ball> slestak: "man head"
[04:17] <slestak> number of bytes or number of lines, but not "until pattern foo".  the nuber of lines is vraiable
[04:17] <slestak> im looking at man page now
[04:17] <ball> slestak: then you want something else, like a programming language
[04:17] <ball> ...or a stream editor
[04:18] <slestak> ball: i was over in #sed but didnt seem to get anyone interst to discuss this.  thx for the input.  i was just wanting to see if this was trivial before writing sth.  tyvm
[04:19] <ball> yvw
[04:20] <compute32> Hi
[04:21] <compute32> I have a question about DNS bind9 well an ISP type question.
[04:21] <Sylphid> slestak, http://www.unix.com/shell-programming-scripting/41060-split-file-into-seperate-files.html
[04:21] <compute32> I was told if I had 2 ip addresses I can host my own domains.
[04:22] <Sylphid> compute32, i dont believe having 2 ip's would be a requirement
[04:22] <PhotoJim> compute32: strictly speaking one IP will do if you can find someone else to be your backup DNS.
[04:23] <slestak> Sylphid: ty, i had not head of csplit
[04:23] <compute32> I see.  But when they say DNS do they mean hosting the domain name
[04:23] <compute32> you would still have to register the name with  a registar
[04:23] <ball> depends
[04:23] <PhotoJim> compute32: domain names aren't hosted per se.  DNS is hosting the lookup to match your individual fully qualified domain names (e.g. machine.blunky.net) to their IP addresses.
[04:24] <compute32> PhotoJim: Yes, that's what I meant.  It's nothing but record lookups.
[04:25] <compute32> but you would still have the register your domain with a registar right?
[04:25] <PhotoJim> compute32: Yep.
[04:26] <compute32> I currently have godady. Do you think I can ask them to not host the domain names and I will host it they just regsiter the domain name. Would it be cheaper?
[04:26] <PhotoJim> compute32: and in that registration you set up what your name servers will be.
[04:26] <PhotoJim> Probably not cheaper, but it might be.  I haven't used godaddy.  I use a small Canadian registrar.
[04:27] <compute32> ya, the name servers would be refering to the DNS server?
[04:27] <PhotoJim> name servers and DNS servers are the same thing :)
[04:27] <PhotoJim> DNS = domain name server :)
[04:29] <compute32> ok, I see. I also lookd into ICANN. I want to see how I could become a registar.
[04:29] <compute32> but it sounds expensive
[04:29] <PhotoJim> I can't help you there.
[04:29] <compute32> 10,000 bucks plus I  would have to take a test.
[04:29] <PhotoJim> I just have a modest little couple of domains, and run them in-house for fun.
[04:30] <compute32> Right now I am trying to setup a server at my house. I  need to find a way to optimized what I have.
[04:30] <compute32> I plan to get into a business with the website.
[04:30]  * ball can't imagine ever having US$ 10,000 spare
[04:31] <compute32> I been reading up on raid5
[04:31] <compute32> usally companies get the 10,000 bucks from investors.
[04:31]  * ball uses RAID5
[04:31] <ball> ...rather wish I didn't, but that's a separate story
[04:32] <compute32> Is raid5 bad?
[04:32] <ball> compute32: depends who you ask, but for my application, RAID-1 would be preferable
[04:32] <ball> (with a hot standby)
[04:32] <Sylphid> compute32, raid5 is good ... raid6 is better...... but raid 10 is my favorite =D
[04:33] <ball> wtf is RAID6?
[04:33] <slestak> only if it is real raid right, not soft raid
[04:33] <ball> slestak: soft RAID has some advantages
[04:33] <slestak> raid 5 with 2 spares i think
[04:33] <ball> ...but we're doing it in hardware
[04:33] <Sylphid> Striped set with dual distributed parity.
[04:34] <slestak> ball: so you can have 2 physical failures and still have everything
[04:34] <Sylphid> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID_6#RAID_6
[04:34] <ball> Sounds like hokum to me ;-)
[04:34] <ball> Does it matter which 2 drives fail?
[04:35] <slestak> the ubuntu screen-profiles from Dustin have me really excited.  i might have soem reall use for that, but it involves, wait for it, ....
[04:35] <ball> ...or can any 2 drives fail?
[04:35] <slestak> aix
[04:35] <Sylphid> soft raid can only get you so far .. /boot cannot run any soft raid other than 1
[04:35] <compute32> Sylphid: whats the difference? I hear they differ by the way  the  hd data is combined.
[04:35] <compute32> I heard raid6 is slower then raid5 when searching for files.
[04:36] <slestak> i think performance is better with hardware raid.
[04:36] <slestak> but cost is much higher
[04:36] <ball> Sylphid: you may be mistaken there
[04:36] <Sylphid> compute32, raid 5 is a combination of speed and safety of data
[04:36] <PhotoJim> slestak: sometimes, but not always, faster
[04:36] <ball> Sylphid: ah, perhaps that's a Linux constraint though
[04:36] <Sylphid> ball, its a grub constraint
[04:36] <ball> Ah okay.
[04:36] <ball> brb
[04:37] <compute32> I plan to but a cabnet. So I will modify it to hold all hard drives.
[04:37] <compute32> how many can you combine hard drives?
[04:37] <Sylphid> as many as ur chassis will hold
[04:37] <compute32> I seen server areas where they have like a cabinet that has like millions of hard drives that look internal hard drives. all stacked on each other.
[04:38] <slestak> Sylphid: tyvm, this did it.  csplit -k -s -f part. hosts.cfg /define/ "{100}" 2>/dev/null
[04:38] <compute32> chassis hold?
[04:38] <Sylphid> closest thing to that that comes to mind is a SAN (Storage Area Network)
[04:38] <slestak> broke it on every instance of teh word "define"
[04:38] <ball> compute32: as many as you like
[04:38] <ball> compute32: if you build it right
[04:38] <compute32> I mean what if you exten the ide cables and connect lets say 500 1 terabytes hard drives to on pc. Is it possible?
[04:39] <ball> (see Thumper)
[04:39] <slestak> compute32: not IDE
[04:39] <Sylphid> compute32, dont use IDE
[04:39] <ball> lol
[04:39] <compute32> then what?
[04:39] <Sylphid> go sata
[04:39] <ball> SAS ftw
[04:39] <slestak> or SAS if you have money ;)
[04:39] <Sylphid> yea if you got money go SAS
[04:39] <slestak> ooh, SSD
[04:39] <Sylphid> but sata is a good cheap solution
[04:40] <slestak> you see the guy on youtube with like a dozen ssd's on his desktop,
[04:40] <Sylphid> naw dont burn money on SSD unless its a big random write partion
[04:40] <slestak> s/on/in
[04:40] <ball> Gah, why didn't I do this upgrade from the console?!!
[04:40] <Sylphid> like /var
[04:40] <ball> Now Mrs. ball wants her computer back and I'm mid upgrade
[04:40] <Sylphid> specifically /var/spool and /var/log
[04:40] <ball> I wonder what ^C would do
[04:41] <slestak> ball: in dist-upgrade?
[04:41] <compute32> ya I will. I plan to buy 2 computers. One to be the main server the other to be the backup.
[04:41] <ball> slestak: "do-release-upgrade"
[04:42] <slestak> compute32: whats this business plan?  running your own colo?
[04:42] <ball> compute32: how much disk space do you need?
[04:42] <ball> Or rather, how large is your data set?
[04:42] <Sylphid> compute32, if your working on the cheap check out geeks.com ... they have some good cheap 1U servers
[04:42] <Sylphid> supermicro has some as well
[04:44] <compute32> well I plan to try and directly talk to the manufactors I heard they give out over 50% off the retail price of computer hardware.
[04:44] <ball> compute32: depends who's buying
[04:44] <slestak> fluent in chines?
[04:44] <slestak> s/es/ese
[04:45] <ball> slestak: Ni hau!
[04:45] <slestak> you no get server for 2 dolla
[04:45] <compute32> I have 2 domain names one for my company and the other is something like myspace... a social network site that is geared towards gamers.
[04:46] <compute32> I don't not much space at the start but I need to be prepared to handel  any new heavy traffic.
[04:48] <slestak> make sure to look at lvm2 or evms when you set up your disks so you can allocate space as needed.
[04:49] <Sylphid> compute32, if your planing on building up a network make sure to get a good router and switch
[04:49] <slestak> if you want to save money, get used stuff off lease from a reseller.  lots of places going out of business and have stuff to move.
[04:51] <compute32> Is their anyway where I can have a computer or  a device that would control turning on the pc/servers So for example if the main server had some errors or down time that some kind of code will detect my main server is down so it sends a signal to the backup server and turn it on and boots it up .
[04:51] <compute32> Is their a way to share the hard drives between 2 servers?
[04:52] <ball> i don't s'pose there's any way to roll back a do-release-upgrade?  :-(
[04:52] <slestak> that is descibing SAN and NAS.
[04:52] <slestak> ball: you have a backup right?
[04:52] <ball> compute32: I can wake workstations from the server
[04:52] <ball> slestak: yes, of course!
[04:52] <slestak> compute32: if there is a failure that caused an outtage, odds are a software switch will not be suffiecient
[04:53] <slestak> more likely you will have a machine or service that is limping, and the trick is to determine what is failing before your clients do and resolve it proactivley
[04:54] <slestak> that is why i am setting up nagios right now.
[04:54] <ball> brb, need a chair
[04:54] <slestak> upgrade going that bad?
[04:54] <slestak> you better sit doen for this...
[04:57] <ball> I may just fetch the iso for Jaunty and start from scratch
[04:58] <ball> I interrupted a do-release-upgrade
[04:58] <ball> ...which I'm sure is not adviseable
[04:58] <ball> ...and I have no way to undo it, so I'll just wipe it and start from scratch
[04:59] <ball> I should start the download tonight though
[05:00] <ball> Hmm... will need Lynx to get the .torrent file
[05:02] <slestak> i can give you the url and you can wget it
[05:02] <slestak> ball: which iso you want?
[05:03] <ball> I have the .torrent now
[05:03] <ball> lynx ftw
[05:03] <ball> slestak: it's Ubuntu Server i386 9.04
[05:03] <slestak> i found a neat tool the other night, curlftpfs
[05:04] <slestak> fuse mount an ftp site
[05:04] <ball> it's probably a good thing for me to have a CD on hand anyway.
[05:05] <slestak> any dev's around?  partularly the guy that did the screen-profiles package?
[05:05] <slestak> particularly i mean
[05:05] <ball> I wonder if Linux will recognise my USB IrDA thing
[05:06]  * ball tries it
[05:06] <slestak> IrDA?
[05:06]  * ball nods
[05:07] <ball> lsusb knows what it is, but I don't know whether that means it'll work
[05:07] <ball> It happened to be in front of me.
[05:08] <ball> ...so I plugged it in.
[05:08]  * ball looks around the room for other things to plug in
[05:10] <Sylphid> slestak, we were looking an nagios and ran into alot of false positives... so we opted for zenoss, you should check it out
[05:11] <slestak> how is the configuration?  just as terse?
[05:12] <slestak> is there a free component?  we have pretty tight margins
[05:13] <slestak> i zenoss core.  i will read up on it.
[05:15] <genii> ball: You have the lirc stuff in?
[05:17] <ball> genii: I don't know what that is.
[05:17] <genii> !info lirc
[05:17] <ball> Anyway, my Jaunty ISO is downloading so I'll wipe this box tomorrow and install from scratch
[05:17] <ball> IrDA != remote control
[05:18] <genii> ball: Sorry, got confused for a minute
[05:18] <ball> Downloading at around 746 kbits/sec
[05:19] <ball> ...hopefully will have it by morning
[05:19] <ball> ...or tomorrow evening
[05:19] <ball> Does 557.2 Mbytes sound about right?
[05:20] <slestak> ball: you could dl the minimal, 10mb
[05:20] <ball> What's the "component universe" btw?
[05:21] <ball> slestak: I will do that at some point, but it's worth me having the full monty in my CD case
[05:21] <ball> ...to carry around with me.
[05:21] <ball> It seems with Ubuntu that I surrender some control, but gain a lot of productivity in return.
[05:22] <ball> Example: my NetBSD box is trying to compile rtorrent whereas my Ubuntu box is already well into the download
[05:22] <ball> well, 5% done
[05:24] <slestak> Sylphid: is using zope a good thing or a drawback for zenoss?
[05:24] <slestak> has it been reliable?
[05:24] <ball> I have to go.
[05:24] <ball> :-(
[05:25] <Sylphid> slestak, i havent had any issues with it
[05:26] <slestak> i will try it out.  thx for the tip.  do you have commercial version, or community?
[05:42] <slestak> Sylphid: hmmm 2G or ram and 20G of HD for the vmware install.  even though nagios is a pain, it sure is light
[06:48] <NineTeen67Comet> Haya does anyone know if they make a 1tb (or bigger) IDE hdd? I can only find sata and my server only has IDE.
[06:49] <ball> Doubtful
[06:49] <ball> NineTeen67Comet: do you have any free PCIe or PCI slots?
[06:50] <NineTeen67Comet> damn the luck .. No PCIe on that box .. I've got a couple PCI ide cards but they don't seem to work ..
[06:50] <NineTeen67Comet> Ultra 133 I think ..
[06:51] <ball> NineTeen67Comet: time to move to SATA
[06:51] <NineTeen67Comet> sigh .. yeah ..
[06:51] <ball> ...or SAS
[06:51] <NineTeen67Comet> I've got about 17 boxes running and all but one are IDE only .. that's a big ticket to fill ..
[06:51] <NineTeen67Comet> SAS? Like the Mac uses?
[06:52]  * ball doesn't know what the Mac uses
[06:52] <ball> you need 1 Tbyte drives in each of the 17 boxen?
[06:52] <NineTeen67Comet> No, just on my one media server
[06:53] <NineTeen67Comet> It has a 500 now that is packed and a 10gig for the OS .. I can add 2 more 500's but I'm not sure how the MythBuntu boxes will see it if all the media isn't in the same directory ..
[06:53] <ball> So just upgrade the media server.
[06:54] <ball> One directory can span multiple disks, if that helps.
[06:54] <lolo> does anyone know why in 9.04 i am only able to connect to my computer (via ssh) throgh the dyndns name. the local ip address dont work
[06:55] <NineTeen67Comet> thanks ball .. I'm going to go do a little mobo/cpu/
[06:55] <NineTeen67Comet> hdd shopping .. =)
[06:55] <ball> NineTeen67Comet: I want WD Caviar Green drives, but I don't have a suitable machine to put them in.
[06:55] <ball> ...yet.
[06:55] <NineTeen67Comet> haven't read up on those ..
[06:56] <NineTeen67Comet> I have been trying to figure out how to share an external USB hard drive out over my network though .. that'd help a ton ..
[06:56]  * ball prefers FireWire to USB
[09:31] <phaidros> hi, what is the debian/ubuntu alternative to cfengine?
[10:42] <twb> phaidros: Ubuntu recommends ebox.
[10:43] <twb> Oops, wrong thing.
[10:43] <twb> cfengine ought to work on Ubuntu; there is also a younger alternative called "puppet", which has its own foibles.
[10:57] <Shapeshifter> Does someone know a wrapper for apt/aptitude or other apt clients that have pretty output? apt-get is awful. As a demo what I call pretty, this is pacman output (archlinux) http://stuff.moritzg.ch/prettypacman.png Is there something like that to wrap around apt* ? Asking, as I want to use ubuntu-server on a few servers and not arch.
[10:59] <twb> aptitude --visual-preview ?
[11:17] <PleXuS> anyone has server 9.04 allready installed? :)
[11:53] <Oli``> I do a lot of python dev (mainly django) and I've installed quite a few things with pypi and easy_install. I'm about to do an upgrade to 9.04 so I assume that I'm going to lose a lot of libs. Is there any way I can a) get a list of what I've installed under python 2.5 so I can install it under 2.6 or b) do something so it automatically goes and finds all the 2.6 packages for the 2.5 stuff I have?
[11:58] <twb> You'd have better luck asking #python about pypi
[11:59] <maxb> Where does easy_install install to?
[11:59] <twb> The cruft(8) package can list every file that was not installed by apt/dpkg, FWIW
[11:59] <maxb> Is it sensible enough to use /usr/local or does it just chuch stuff in /usr?
[12:00] <maxb> If everything installed with easy_install is an egg, then it could be as simple as reading /usr[/local]/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools.pth
[13:00] <Oli``> good point maxb - looks like it's all installed in site-packages
[13:00] <Oli``> should make things easier to target
[13:01]  * Oli`` crosses his fingers
[14:12] <NineTeen67Comet> Hello. I've got a networking question. A friend is opening a studio (music production) and asked if I could help him with his network and web server. He wants to provide wireless (N/g) to his customers while they wait, run his web server in house and provide access to the lan drops in each office (about 6) .. I told him to get an N router, G router and a hub to split it all up. Would this be enough?
[14:12] <NineTeen67Comet> another friend suggested a smart switch, but i've never played with one before. Is that over kill?
[14:25] <giovani> waited a whole 4 minutes, wow
[15:26] <PhotoJim> yup, a little impatient.
[15:26] <PhotoJim> does anybody actually use hubs anymore?  I guess if you had zero money and you fell into one, why not, but otherwise...
[16:08] <cheleo> hi there, I installed ubuntu server 9.04
[16:08] <cheleo> I connected a parallel printer
[16:08] <cheleo> I installed cups
[16:09] <cheleo> changed the listening address to listen all interfaces
[16:09] <cheleo> however I cannot access to CUPS on myip:631
[16:09] <cheleo> because the webpage says "Forbidden"
[16:09] <giovani> why would you want it to listen on all interfaces?
[16:09] <cheleo> what am I missing?
[16:09] <cheleo> because it's a nat box
[16:09] <giovani> uh
[16:10] <giovani> 631 is just the web interface
[16:10] <giovani> it doesn't need to be on anything but localhost
[16:10] <cheleo> ok
[16:10] <cheleo> how can I print?
[16:10] <giovani> read the howtos for cups/printing
[18:46] <ninjabox> hi all
[18:46] <ninjabox> can anyone help me get audio output from my server?
[18:48] <ninjabox> please?  mistah mistah I need help with my server -.-
[18:51] <charlesatlas> I just installed mysql 5.0 via synaptic but I'm not able to get it to start
[18:53] <ninjabox> I'm pretty sure mine was running after reboot automatically
[18:53] <ninjabox> after I apt-getted it
[18:54] <charlesatlas> I will try a reboot, thanks.
[18:54] <ninjabox> np
[18:54] <ninjabox> exit
[18:54] <ninjabox> leave
[18:54] <ninjabox> err
[18:54] <ninjabox> excuse me -.-
[19:34] <PleXuS> anyone has server 9.04 allready installed? :)
[20:09] <PhotoJim> I'm installing mine as we speak.
[20:09] <PhotoJim> (upgrading, technically)
[21:12] <ball> I almost installed Ubuntu Server on a production machine today
[21:13] <giovani> almost?
[21:13] <ball> giovani: I had a phone call about a server that wouldn't boot
[21:13] <ball> I was all set to change it to Linux (if I had to reinstall anyway)
[21:15] <ball> Thankfully I don't have to, but I'm going to run Jaunty at home for a while, to see what the transition will be like.
[23:07] <macacalbio> hello, if you were thinking of building a ipsec tunnel to your office , which pkg would you use? open or strong swan¿?
[23:19] <egc> how painful is getting a graphical desktop on ubuntu server?
[23:19] <egc> i thinking it may be less work than getting ubuntu desktop configured as a server for all the various services
[23:20] <hads> That's basically the same thing.
[23:20] <egc> i wonder which direction is easier though
[23:20] <hads> You need to install the "various services" either way.
[23:20] <egc> ah
[23:21] <egc> so i may not gain anything by using the server distro
[23:21] <egc> i don't need the kernel tuning and such
[23:21] <hads> You gain the lack of a GUI :)
[23:21] <egc> yeah, which girlfriends may not appreciate
[23:23] <macacalbio> someone with a little experience on using ipsec servers? i'm trying to figure out which of the *swans is "the best" (need windows compatibility)
[23:52] <egc> hads: looks like installing the desktop is one of the things you can pick at install for server edition
[23:52] <egc> as well as the other services
[23:57] <qsi> when running kvm my bridge keeps being created with 192.168.122.1 as ip although I have changed it in /etc/libvirt/qemu/networks/default.xml to another value, where does this come from?