| SherokiX | peace &&love | 02:03 |
|---|---|---|
| tkelito | /mode $me +x | 05:50 |
| DKcross | jpds, | 09:27 |
| SherokiX | hi | 09:45 |
| === KennethP_ is now known as KennethP | ||
| seek278 | j | 11:43 |
| jacopo | date -u | 13:32 |
| stesind | date -u | 14:09 |
| zaidka | date -u | 14:21 |
| SnowMann | date -u | 14:34 |
| driftwood_ | hi | 14:38 |
| * ball waves | 14:39 | |
| zaidka | hi driftwood | 14:41 |
| zaidka | what does "date -u" do? | 14:41 |
| littleblue | date -u | 14:41 |
| littleblue | find utc | 14:41 |
| Nassarius | hey driftwood_ :) | 14:41 |
| zaidka | find utc | 14:41 |
| zaidka | date -u | 14:42 |
| zaidka | nothing happned | 14:42 |
| pleia2 | zaidka: you have to run it in a terminal :) | 14:42 |
| pleia2 | not here | 14:42 |
| littleblue | use a shell dat -u ->> Mo 27. Apr 13:39:43 UTC 2009 | 14:42 |
| zaidka | then why are poeple typing it here :D | 14:42 |
| pleia2 | because they are confused | 14:43 |
| zaidka | cool,, one hour left | 14:43 |
| jcastro | t minus ~50 minutes! | 15:08 |
| pleia2 | :) | 15:08 |
| kusanagi | ^^ | 15:09 |
| * ball hides behind his chair | 15:11 | |
| ball | Oooh, a red one! | 15:12 |
| ball | Bore da YDdraigGoch | 15:12 |
| * popey hugs jcastro | 15:12 | |
| YDdraigGoch | Prynhawn da ball :P | 15:12 |
| jcastro | hi popey! | 15:13 |
| * Nassarius demands that people talk in here | 15:17 | |
| ball | YDdraigGoch: well, it's morning here. | 15:17 |
| * popey refuses to meet Nassarius demands | 15:17 | |
| popey | oh, damnit | 15:17 |
| JManGt_ | cricket noises.... cri cri... cri cri | 15:17 |
| Nassarius | XD | 15:18 |
| YDdraigGoch | ball, my bad then. Don't come across that many people who know what welsh is and live on a completely different time zone ^^ | 15:19 |
| * JManGt_ wonders when will the beer drinking begin? | 15:19 | |
| DKcross | hi everyone | 15:20 |
| JManGt_ | DJones, o/ | 15:20 |
| Nassarius | hello DKcross | 15:20 |
| DKcross | what time it is | 15:20 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, 14 UTCish? | 15:21 |
| Nassarius | 10:20 AM here in the southeast USA | 15:21 |
| DKcross | how many time ? | 15:21 |
| * DJones wonders whether the hilight was a mis-tab, or does he need to wake up | 15:21 | |
| DKcross | i am from El Salvador | 15:21 |
| DKcross | its 8:21 AM | 15:21 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, saludos de guatemala, empieza a las 9 am | 15:22 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, hola amigo. | 15:22 |
| JManGt_ | DJones, sorry for the mis-tab | 15:22 |
| DKcross | ah bueno :D open WEEk a lo Latino:D | 15:22 |
| ball | Nassarius: 09:22 here | 15:22 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, cabal ;) | 15:22 |
| DJones | JManGt_: No probs, reminded me to keep watching the clock ticking away anyway | 15:22 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, Como les fue en el flisol? | 15:23 |
| DKcross | jpds, Hi friend... how are u? | 15:23 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, pues en la capital nos fue bien, mucha gente complacida | 15:23 |
| JManGt_ | en el interior de la republica nos falto publicidad | 15:23 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, q perfecto | 15:23 |
| ball | 14:24? | 15:24 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, y a ustedes como les fue? | 15:24 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, fui organizador.. | 15:25 |
| DKcross | y estuve a cargo de la organización interna en la Universidad. | 15:25 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, y cuanta gente les llego? | 15:25 |
| DKcross | en el evento central. | 15:25 |
| DKcross | como 500 | 15:25 |
| DKcross | un poco más | 15:25 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, :D | 15:25 |
| DKcross | pero lo que te quería decir es que aun estoy cansado | 15:25 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, esperabamos más personas.. | 15:26 |
| DKcross | di dos ponencias sabes.. y una no la pude dar. | 15:26 |
| DKcross | el usb booteable de jaunty no funciono | 15:26 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, nosotros por falta de gente para atender o por miedo de los usuarios | 15:27 |
| JManGt_ | repartimos portable apps | 15:27 |
| JManGt_ | ademas del cd de intrepid | 15:27 |
| DKcross | pues mira, el principal fin del evento se logro.. porque repartimos muchos cds, habian promedio 800 cds solicitados con antelación por el registro que se diseño en el website | 15:28 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, y la gente que te llego fueron humanos normales o gente tech? | 15:30 |
| DKcross | de todo | 15:30 |
| DKcross | no todos eran estudiantes o trabajadores de la informaática | 15:30 |
| DKcross | habían doctores. | 15:30 |
| DKcross | y abogados | 15:30 |
| DKcross | administradores etc.. | 15:30 |
| DKcross | farmaceuticos | 15:30 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, aprovechando la asesoria como le hicieron para promocionarse? | 15:31 |
| jurjenst | I hope Jono will still talk in English ;) | 15:32 |
| popey | jurjenst: he only knows two languages | 15:32 |
| popey | English and Gibberish | 15:32 |
| jcastro | popey: Do you know how to do all this irc op/mod stuff? Because I do not. | 15:34 |
| popey | heh | 15:34 |
| jcastro | please don't make me go read docs | 15:34 |
| jcastro | sideys for the win | 15:34 |
| popey | \o/ | 15:34 |
| jcastro | ok, what do we want in the topic | 15:34 |
| popey | Next session: HH:MM UTC, <subject> | 15:35 |
| popey | at the start | 15:35 |
| popey | not that anyone ever reads it ;) | 15:35 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, para la publicidad hubo mucho movimiento.... carta a los medios, se creo un spot radial, y se estuvo transmitiendo desde 2 semanas antes.. | 15:36 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 1500 UTC: Introduction || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat please | ||
| jcastro | how's that? | 15:36 |
| * ball sings in very bad factory Spanish | 15:36 | |
| popey | winner | 15:36 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, te presento a tuxtor, aquel fue de los organizadores del Flisol aqui en Guate | 15:37 |
| tuxtor | buenas o/ | 15:37 |
| jcastro | \o/ | 15:37 |
| DKcross | tuxtor, buenas amigo como estas.. como les fue? | 15:37 |
| DKcross | porque no hay ubuntu-gt? | 15:37 |
| tuxtor | DKcross, pues bastante bien, al menos en la ciudad capital no nos dimos abasto y en las otras ciudades aunque fue menos afluencia logramos ir un poco más alla del centro del pais | 15:38 |
| tuxtor | DKcross, la comunidad es aun pequeña y respecto a distros somos muy distintos :-P | 15:38 |
| JManGt_ | tuxtor, mira aquellos armaron un spot radial para promocionarse, algo asi se podria hacer para el cgsol | 15:38 |
| DKcross | los eventos fuera de la capital fueron antes.. fueron el 17 y 18 de abril | 15:39 |
| DKcross | que es cgsol? | 15:39 |
| DKcross | JManGt_, tuxtor entonces no son ubunteros? | 15:39 |
| tuxtor | DKcross, congreso guatemalteco de software libre | 15:39 |
| tuxtor | es a finales de año | 15:39 |
| tuxtor | DKcross, JManGt_ si | 15:39 |
| tuxtor | yo soy un hibrido que ayuda a cualquier evento | 15:39 |
| DKcross | pero no es el 19 de sept? | 15:39 |
| tuxtor | no importando distribucion xD | 15:39 |
| JManGt_ | DKcross, yo si | 15:39 |
| tuxtor | DKcross, la fecha es tentativa | 15:40 |
| DKcross | bueno yo ayudo a cualquier distro | 15:40 |
| tuxtor | pero si es en septiembre | 15:40 |
| donsdw | Will the classroom be in English? | 15:40 |
| DKcross | pero me tome el proyecto de ubuntu más a pecho | 15:40 |
| sirdiego | donsdw: yes | 15:40 |
| donsdw | thank you | 15:40 |
| DKcross | en septiembre es el SFD tuxtor JManGt_ | 15:40 |
| JManGt_ | MagicFab, o/ saludos desde guatemala | 15:40 |
| DKcross | es el 19 | 15:40 |
| tuxtor | DKcross, si es que el año pasado hicimos el congreso porque hubieron inconvenientes para realizar el SFD, pero fue fuera de tiempo | 15:41 |
| DKcross | good mornig MagicFab | 15:41 |
| tuxtor | ahorita queremos combinar las actividades :) | 15:41 |
| * tuxtor just has noticed that this channel works in english :-P | 15:42 | |
| jcastro | ~15 minutes! | 15:42 |
| === iluv is now known as iluvubun | ||
| MagicFab | tuxtor, DKcross when it starts, "# Do NOT speak while the host is doing the tutorial part of the session. Talking happens in #ubuntu-classroom-chat " | 15:43 |
| * JManGt_ chants beer, beer, beer! | 15:43 | |
| drostie | beer beer beer! | 15:43 |
| drostie | hear hear! :D | 15:43 |
| DKcross | MagicFab, i know.no problem | 15:43 |
| iluvubun | /ignore -channels #ubuntu-classroom-chat * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS | 15:43 |
| tuxtor | MagicFab, ok sorry | 15:45 |
| iamskillz | so what is this sesion gona be all about? | 15:45 |
| kusanagi | iamskillz, Introduction - Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, in this session Jono and Jorge will explain how the week works, what to expect, and how to get the best out of your week. | 15:46 |
| iamskillz | kusanagi: thanks :D | 15:49 |
| popey | jcastro: ikonia is also here to help from an op point of view | 15:50 |
| jcastro | cool! | 15:50 |
| jcastro | ~10 minutes! | 15:50 |
| ikonia | hi | 15:50 |
| popey | jcastro: (he knows a lot more about it than me) but sshhh, don't tell. | 15:50 |
| ikonia | yeah right | 15:50 |
| emgent | jono: your twitter rulez. | 15:50 |
| emgent | ;) | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | will these sessions and tutorials all be types? | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | *typed | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | or do we need our speakers on | 15:51 |
| popey | iamskillz: its text based, yes | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | oh kool | 15:51 |
| popey | you can turn your speakers on if you think it will help | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | lol | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | didnt know about this open week | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | until about 10min ago | 15:51 |
| popey | However this isn't War Games, and Joshua wont start speaking to you, or asking you for games of Nuclear War. | 15:51 |
| jono | emgent, :) | 15:51 |
| iamskillz | lucky i loged into ubuntu-uk | 15:52 |
| popey | \o/ | 15:52 |
| popey | When it all starts, we ask everyone to move comments and questions to the channel #ubuntu-classroom-chat, so it's easy for everyone to follow the speaker | 15:52 |
| SiDi | Does anyone remember the irc option to hide join and quit messages, please ? | 15:53 |
| iamskillz | IGNORE <JOINS> | 15:53 |
| kusanagi | SiDi, it depens on the client | 15:54 |
| iamskillz | im trying | 15:54 |
| charlie-tca | whole list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn | 15:54 |
| iamskillz | but its not working | 15:54 |
| kusanagi | xchat does not have that option i think | 15:54 |
| kusanagi | for example | 15:54 |
| kusanagi | only via scripts | 15:54 |
| iamskillz | ah, that explains it | 15:54 |
| kusanagi | (kinda lame btw) | 15:54 |
| YDdraigGoch | for xchat type: /set irc_conf_mode on | 15:54 |
| thegrieve | use irssi :) | 15:54 |
| jtholmes | charlie-tca, morning charlie | 15:54 |
| charlie-tca | Good Morning | 15:55 |
| jdardon | thegrieve: irssi rulez! | 15:55 |
| charlie-tca | glad you made it | 15:55 |
| jtholmes | me too | 15:55 |
| * ball likes irssi a lot. | 15:55 | |
| SiDi | YDdraigGoch, charlie-tca thanks ! | 15:56 |
| charlie-tca | no problem | 15:56 |
| jcastro | ~4 minutes! | 15:56 |
| YDdraigGoch | You're welcome =) | 15:57 |
| === cryogenx is now known as orb|tal | ||
| jcastro | wow, almost 200 people already | 15:59 |
| iamskillz | just tweeted, to get some more :D | 16:00 |
| jono | 'ello everyone :-) | 16:00 |
| gotunandan | jcastro: what was the highest last time around, any ideas ? | 16:00 |
| jcastro | ~300-ish | 16:00 |
| jcastro | jono: ready? | 16:00 |
| jono | just gonna give it a few mins for the stragglers to arrive :) | 16:00 |
| gotunandan | i guess when sabdfl Q & A takes place , there are the most number of people | 16:01 |
| Odd_Bloke | All comments by the session leaders should be <140 characters, and 'dented out. :p | 16:01 |
| jono | Odd_Bloke, heh | 16:01 |
| alanbell1 | to do both try /ignore -channels #ubuntu-classroom JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS | 16:01 |
| gotunandan | Odd_Bloke : agreed, had to make two tweets :) | 16:02 |
| jono | alright | 16:02 |
| jono | lets get going :) | 16:02 |
| jono | everyone, welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! :-) | 16:02 |
| jdardon | :D | 16:02 |
| jono | just before I get started, I would like to point out that this channel is not for discussion, this is where the session is delivered | 16:03 |
| jono | instead, feel free to chat over in the mecca that is #ubuntu-classroom-chat :) | 16:03 |
| jono | so, here we are again, and this is our sixth Ubuntu Open Week | 16:03 |
| jono | for the last six cycles Open Week has provided an incredible opportunity for us to reach out to new contributors | 16:04 |
| jono | and to provide an opportunity to welcome these contributors into our rather awesome community | 16:04 |
| jono | the idea behind the very first Ubuntu Open Week was pretty simple | 16:05 |
| jono | Ubuntu has a community depends on a wide variety of contributors | 16:05 |
| goshawk | hi | 16:05 |
| jono | we have literally hundreds of teams, a world covered in LoCo teams, many translated languages and a variety of methods of getting involved in a diverse range of skills | 16:06 |
| jono | the problem with diversity is that it can be devilishly difficult to know how to get started | 16:06 |
| jono | Ubuntu Open Week is intended to provide a simple on-ramp for new and curious contributors to dip their feet into the Ubuntu community | 16:07 |
| gotunandan | /ignore -channels #ubuntu-classroom JOINS QUITS | 16:07 |
| jono | to do this Ubuntu Open Week provides a wealth of IRC tuition sessions designed to cover this diverse range of contributions that new contributors can indulge in | 16:07 |
| jono | as with every Ubuntu Open Week, you can see this list of sessions over at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 16:08 |
| jono | with the Jaunty release and the kick off the Karmic cycle, we have the biggest Ubuntu Open Week ever with more sessions and a special Documentation Day on the Tuesday | 16:08 |
| jono | delivering these sessions are some legends in the Ubuntu community - this is not just a great opportunity to learn the ropes, but to learn the ropes from some of the rock stars in that part of the community | 16:09 |
| jono | so all in all, this is a pretty rocking week | 16:09 |
| jono | and I am hugely excited to meet many of the new contributors in these different parts of the community | 16:10 |
| jono | let me now explain how this shebang works | 16:10 |
| jono | Ubuntu Open Week sessions, as I said, are listed over at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 16:10 |
| jono | to get involved is simple: simply log onto IRC and join this channel #ubuntu-classroom - this is where all of the sessions will be taking place | 16:11 |
| jono | sessions will be delivered by the person shown on the schedule and then will present workshops inside the channel | 16:11 |
| jono | every session also welcomes questions - to do this, join #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 16:12 |
| jono | asking a question is simple - in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ask your question with 'QUESTION' at the beginning of the line | 16:12 |
| jono | for example: | 16:12 |
| kevin_ | join #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 16:12 |
| jono | QUESTION: Was it really International Iron Maiden Day last week? | 16:12 |
| jono | and naturally, the leader would respond with: | 16:13 |
| jono | yes, the most important day of the year | 16:13 |
| jono | simple as that | 16:13 |
| jono | when asking questions, please don't repeat them | 16:13 |
| jono | if you ask a question the leader will see it and hopefully respond at some point, but it may take a little while - these sessions get a little frantic | 16:14 |
| jono | the most important rule about Ubuntu Open Week is that you should not speak in this channel - this is purely designed to deliver the session in, if you speak repeatedly, you may feel the strong arm the law hoist you out | 16:15 |
| jono | and no one would like that, eh? | 16:15 |
| jono | so that is the essence of what Ubuntu Open Week is | 16:15 |
| jono | I now want to speak for a little while about a few things and then I will hand over to a few questions before we wrap up | 16:16 |
| jono | as such, if you have any questions, pump them into #ubuntu-classroom-chat now | 16:16 |
| jono | Ubuntu is an awesome community. | 16:16 |
| jono | utterly, utterly awesome. | 16:17 |
| jono | one of the reason why I love the community so much is that it inspires itselfd | 16:17 |
| jono | itself | 16:17 |
| jono | every day when I wake up and get online, I meet and experience incredible work done across the community | 16:18 |
| jono | but community is not only about incredible work, it is about incredible people delivering that work | 16:18 |
| jono | I started n Ubuntu just under three years ago, and my role is as the Ubuntu Community Manager | 16:18 |
| jono | my role and the function of my team is to help enable the community | 16:19 |
| jono | our goal is to ensure that the wider Ubuntu community feel engaged in not only achieving their own personal ambitions but the ambitions of the community as a whole | 16:19 |
| jono | the thing that drives great community is a sense that everyone benefits from your community | 16:20 |
| jono | if you add a comment in a bug report that helps a bug get fixed, that bug fix benefits everyone | 16:20 |
| jono | if you translate a string, that benefits everyone | 16:20 |
| jono | when you organize LoCo meetings, that benefits the whole area | 16:20 |
| kevin_ | join #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 16:20 |
| jono | it is this sense that we can all put a brick in the Ubuntu wall that has helped us to build a strong and compelling wall | 16:21 |
| jono | but with this ethos comes challenges, and particularly around scale | 16:21 |
| jono | Ubuntu is a huge project no, with thousands of participants | 16:21 |
| jono | our family spans every country in the world, every language, and every discipline | 16:22 |
| jono | managing and maintaining a community is pretty straightforward when your community is small and focused, but when it gets as big as ours, we often need to think carefully about how we welcome this growth but still maintain that sense of community spirit | 16:23 |
| jono | and this is where you all come in | 16:23 |
| naux | tuantub: vao day lam gi vay ? | 16:24 |
| jono | while on one hand we manage this level of growth and scale with better governance and simple and effective processes, the way we maintain that community spirit is by each of us bringing it to our IRC channels, mailing lists and user group meetings | 16:24 |
| jono | I have always wanted Ubuntu to maintain a strong sense of family | 16:24 |
| jono | and every Ubuntu Developer Summit and LoCo meeting exhibits this sense of family | 16:25 |
| jono | but this sense of family is evident in our existing contributor base | 16:25 |
| jono | what we need to strive for this week is building that sense of family in our new contributors | 16:26 |
| jono | when a new person joins an Ubuntu Open Week session, we want to not only help them get involved but also welcome them into our family, help and encourage them and give them a strong sense of "I got your back" | 16:26 |
| jono | it is these connections between our different contributors that will empower every to achieve their own personal goals and do great work for the community | 16:27 |
| jono | I am incredibly excited by this Ubuntu Open Week, and I think we have a better opportunity than ever to broaden and expand our worldwide family, and can't wait to here the stories from new people joining us | 16:27 |
| jono | so, speaking of family, I want to welcome one specific person who recently joined my team at Canonical as the fourth horsemen | 16:28 |
| jono | David Planella who is also known as dpm joined us recently to work as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator | 16:29 |
| jono | David has joined to help us make our translations community rock and to continue to drive forward our belief that Ubuntu should be available to everyone in their language | 16:29 |
| antares | HELP ignore | 16:30 |
| jono | David joins Daniel Holbach (dholbach) and Jorge Castro (jcastro) on the team and I would love it if you could welcome him in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 16:30 |
| jono | I am excited about what he can bring to the wider translations community | 16:30 |
| jono | right | 16:31 |
| jono | so, without further ado, lets get onto a few questions folks | 16:31 |
| jono | paste them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 16:31 |
| sirdiego | HELP ignore | 16:31 |
| jono | <zaidka> QUESTION: what is Loco team? | 16:31 |
| jono | zaidka, a LoCo team is a local Ubuntu advocacy group that gets together to help spread the word about Ubuntu in their areas | 16:32 |
| jono | LoCo teams not only do advocacy, but many do translatons, write documentation, provide support and host training sessions and events | 16:32 |
| jono | we have over 200 of these teams that cover the planet - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams for more | 16:32 |
| jono | <goshawk> QUESTION: who are the leaders? who decides them? | 16:33 |
| jono | I assume you mean LoCo teams, goshawk | 16:33 |
| jcastro | he meant the sessions | 16:33 |
| jono | oh the sessions | 16:33 |
| jcastro | we answered it, you can move on | 16:33 |
| jono | thanks jcastro | 16:33 |
| jono | ok cool | 16:33 |
| jono | <Odd_Bloke> QUESTION: Why aren't we all silenced in #ubuntu-classroom? | 16:33 |
| jono | we do that if needed | 16:33 |
| jono | but we prefer to be less hardcore about silencing people | 16:34 |
| jono | usually most people are quiet - all looks good so far :) | 16:34 |
| jono | <JManGt_> QUESTION: in my county we have a 'big' loco team, but its kind of like in a coma. Any tips on how to jump start a loco? | 16:34 |
| jono | great questions JManGt_ | 16:34 |
| jono | there are two things that make LoCos thrive: | 16:34 |
| jono | 1. regular communication | 16:34 |
| jono | 2. focus points | 16:35 |
| === francesco_ is now known as fncmrl | ||
| jono | for (1) it means having plenty of chatter on mailing lists, IRC and other resources | 16:35 |
| jono | to achieve this, start conversations, ask questions and encourage your community to do so | 16:35 |
| jono | for (2) this means getting the team together to do something | 16:35 |
| jono | this could be either an event such as a bug jam, packaging jam or release party, or having the team work together on the same project | 16:36 |
| jono | a LoCo team will struggle if they have nothing to focus their energy on | 16:36 |
| jono | I would begin with organizing a series of events | 16:36 |
| jono | a great start here could be a bug jam - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RunningBugJam for details | 16:37 |
| jono | <sea-gul1> QUESTION: what's specific about developing for Ubuntu? | 16:37 |
| jono | sea-gul1, not entirely sure what you mean here, but developing for Ubuntu in the traditional sense mean packaging | 16:37 |
| jono | to do this you need to learn the Debian packaging system and we have a Packaging Guide available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide that explains how to get started | 16:38 |
| jono | while we use the Debian packaging system, some of our use of it is a little different, that is where it is more specific | 16:38 |
| jono | <iamskillz> QUESTION: I have been using Windows for years, i would like to use linux/Ubuntu, however software companies are not very good with supporting this, i know theere is a HUGE community, but sometimes it feels it takes a lot longer to get something working on linux than it does in windows, any tips? | 16:39 |
| dholbach | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted too (which links to packaging videos and so on) | 16:39 |
| jono | thanks dholbach | 16:39 |
| jono | iamskillz, if you are asking for tips on how to get started, I would recommend spending a lot of time learning and practising | 16:40 |
| jono | have a computer set up with Ubuntu and just try things | 16:40 |
| jono | this is how I got started - I just installed things, and tried to make them work | 16:40 |
| jono | when I started in Linux I performed experiments setting up networks, mail services, firewalls, compiling software and more | 16:41 |
| jono | the world is your oyster | 16:41 |
| jono | in terms of how we can get companies to support it, that is a much wider questions | 16:41 |
| jono | question | 16:41 |
| jono | we do have many companies who provide support for Ubuntu, and Canonical is one of them - see http://www.canonical.com/services/support for more | 16:42 |
| jono | <tpfennig> QUESTION: How you define "local". Country or city? | 16:42 |
| jono | tpfennig, it varies - most typically it is either a country or a state | 16:42 |
| jono | there are some city teams though | 16:42 |
| jono | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList provides a list of them so you can see how the naming varies | 16:43 |
| jono | a LoCo team typically services a catchment area that is manageable for physical events, when that is too large, multiple LoCo teams emerge | 16:43 |
| jono | <mrasty> QUESTION: how about creating a ubuntu application store and try to get the big video game players to develop games for it | 16:43 |
| jono | mrasty, great idea, but the problem is that it relies on the video game makers producing games for Ubuntu which many currently are not doing | 16:44 |
| jono | while many new games are coming out for Ubuntu, there is still a long road ahead, and many games studies cannot justify the cost of supporting the Linux platform | 16:44 |
| jono | I am confident this will change as our platform continues to mature | 16:44 |
| jono | greg-g> QUESTION: Where is the "How to record a hardcore metal album using Ubuntu" Open Week session? | 16:45 |
| greg-g | \m/ | 16:45 |
| jono | greg-g, hah! I am not sure many people would want to get along to that :-) | 16:45 |
| jono | but they should \m/ | 16:45 |
| jono | <ball> QUESTION: Does it help spread acceptance of Ubuntu, and the community as a whole, when hardware vendors work with Canonical to ship Ubuntu as an OS option? | 16:45 |
| jono | ball, totally | 16:45 |
| jono | in a perfect world people would never see the install | 16:46 |
| jono | installer | 16:46 |
| jono | people would buy hardware and Ubuntu is ready to roll | 16:46 |
| jono | as we grow in popularity and more and more vendors ship Ubuntu, the impact it has is huge | 16:46 |
| jono | I now regularly see people running Ubuntu on trains which is incredible, and I have also seen many running it on laptops at airports | 16:47 |
| jono | again, we have much more to do, but the impact of these machines that ship Ubuntu is huge | 16:47 |
| jono | DKcross> QUESTION: jono said that they are expanding on a world wide scale, but in our El Salvador we've been asking for over a month for resources like the loco hosting, wiki and the planet site on rt.ubuntu.com. What are your plans on how to bring better support for the community? | 16:47 |
| jono | DKcross, earlier I mentioned scale, and one area in which we have struggled a little is in tending to all of the requests from locos for resources | 16:48 |
| jono | much of the reason for this is that there soooo many of them | 16:48 |
| jono | it is getting better, but be a little patient | 16:48 |
| jono | <zaidka> QUESTION: How do I get in touch with the LoCo team in Syria. There's no website, email, irc channel. | 16:49 |
| jono | zaidka, not sure of that specific team, but check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList and if you don't see that, Google the team | 16:49 |
| jono | <ball> QUESTION: if a LoCo seems to be one person, and that person gets hit by a bus, what's the drill? | 16:50 |
| jono | ball, this hasn't happened much but typically the team first mourns that persons loss, and then they vote for a new member | 16:50 |
| jono | they typically vote for a new member | 16:50 |
| jono | this does vary from team to team thoughy | 16:50 |
| jono | <Odd_Bloke> QUESTION: Regarding (1), is there not a tension between online communication within a LoCo and within the wider Ubuntu community? | 16:51 |
| jono | Odd_Bloke, not that I am familiar with :-) | 16:51 |
| jono | <ball> QUESTION: This relates to you work Jono. Do you encounter much friction between national/provincial LoCos and strong city LoCos within them? If so, how do you deal with that? | 16:51 |
| jono | ball, not really, there has been some conflict between teams that share the same area, but usually these teams eventually work more and more together | 16:52 |
| jono | I always like to encourage teams to work together as opposed to work against each other - there is no sense in competing for users | 16:52 |
| jono | in cases where there is a conflict, I recommend you get in touch with the LoCo Council | 16:52 |
| jono | <FiveAcres> QUESTION: Is there a FAQ about how to report a bug when apport isn't involved? | 16:53 |
| jono | FiveAcres, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs | 16:54 |
| jono | <Ireyon> QUESTION: The industry in common does not see any chance in programming hardware drivers for linux, how does this currently develop? And is there a chance to get more factories to to that? | 16:54 |
| jcastro | 5 minute warning! | 16:54 |
| jono | there is a huge amount of driver development happening in the community and many companies also produce drivers | 16:55 |
| jono | we are seeing more hardware makers create drivers and when this doesn't happen larger integration companies tend to do this | 16:55 |
| jono | I think that as Linux spreads further and further afield we will see more drivers developed | 16:56 |
| jono | fortunately most hardware seems to work great with Linux these days | 16:56 |
| jono | goshawk> QUESTION: What can i do to improve an ubuntu LoCo if the ubuntu spirit of that loco is missed? For "missed ubuntu spirit" i mean that most of the answers of the Loco are arrogant without any reason. | 16:56 |
| EragonJ | . | 16:57 |
| jono | goshawk, I think the first step is in encouraging an atmosphere that maintains respect - we do this through encouraging behaviour that is positive but not accepting people being rude to each other | 16:58 |
| jono | ok, one more | 16:58 |
| jono | <tpfennig> QUESTION: How did the Jaunty launch went so far? I think intro of new FUSA applet was bad idea. Nobody I met who already knew Ubuntu liked it. | 16:58 |
| jono | tpfennig, from what I have seen this has been a great release - the developers who created it seem to feel that this is one of the best releases that we have done and the responses so far seem to be that it is working smoothly and upgrades went really well | 16:59 |
| jono | personally, I am really happy with it | 16:59 |
| jono | I upgraded a bunch of machines and upgraded my dad's laptop and it was great | 16:59 |
| jono | time will tell over the coming weeks, but I think we are off to a great start | 17:00 |
| jono | ok, I am done | 17:00 |
| jono | thanks so much folks! | 17:00 |
| jcastro | woo, thanks jono | 17:00 |
| jono | have a great week! | 17:00 |
| imbrandon | thanks jono | 17:00 |
| * dholbach hugs jono | 17:00 | |
| * dholbach hugs jcastro | 17:00 | |
| jcastro | ok everyone, take a minute for a break, and then I'm going to all the new features of ubuntu 9.04! | 17:00 |
| dpm | thanks jono! | 17:00 |
| * Ireyon claps | 17:00 | |
| * thegrieve cheers | 17:00 | |
| dayo | thanks jono | 17:01 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 1600 UTC: What's new in 9.04 || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat please | ||
| mib_7yxsixa0 | nice :) | 17:01 |
| tango | thanks jono! | 17:01 |
| jcastro | ok | 17:02 |
| jcastro | let's get started | 17:02 |
| jcastro | Hi to all 266 of you! | 17:02 |
| jcastro | I am going to go over some new features in Ubuntu 9.04 that might be interesting to you | 17:02 |
| jcastro | and then open it up for some questions. | 17:02 |
| jcastro | First off, this is our 10th release of Ubuntu! | 17:02 |
| jcastro | This is version 9.04, code named Jaunty Jackalope | 17:03 |
| jcastro | The version number is derived from the year and month it was released. So 9.04 is 2009, 4th month. | 17:03 |
| jcastro | Ubuntu releases every 6 months | 17:03 |
| jcastro | so the next version will be 9.10, and so on | 17:03 |
| jcastro | Let me throw some links at you to refer to | 17:04 |
| jcastro | http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/904features/ | 17:04 |
| jcastro | this is the general tour, the slick flashy thing we put on the homepage | 17:04 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/ReleaseNotes | 17:04 |
| jcastro | and those are the release notes, with things like errata, known broken things and workarounds, etc. | 17:04 |
| jcastro | http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904overview | 17:05 |
| jcastro | here is a more technical overview | 17:05 |
| jcastro | ... and, here is a review from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/04/the-jackalope-arrives-ubuntu-904-officially-released.ars | 17:05 |
| jcastro | since Ubuntu releases every 6 months, each release always brings something new | 17:05 |
| jcastro | the main desktop part of Ubuntu is called GNOME, this is your desktop, panels, etc. | 17:06 |
| jcastro | if you run Kubuntu the desktop is called KDE. | 17:06 |
| jcastro | KDE and Kubuntu will be covered later today with Jonathan, so I'll go over the default installation | 17:06 |
| jcastro | XFCE and Xubuntu will be covered this week as well | 17:06 |
| jcastro | http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.26/ | 17:07 |
| jcastro | So here are the new things in GNOME this time around | 17:07 |
| jcastro | Ubuntu has already been shipping Brasero as a CD burner, so that is unchanged | 17:07 |
| jcastro | since GNOME releases are more evolutationary, usually it's a bunch of little fixes | 17:07 |
| jcastro | and little features here and there, you won't see a drastic change | 17:08 |
| jcastro | In fact if you look at ubuntu's history: http://tuxradar.com/content/road-jaunty-look-back-ubuntus-history | 17:08 |
| jcastro | you'll see that the desktop has evolved over time to the desktop we have today | 17:08 |
| jcastro | <tpfennig> QUESTION: Why dont you ship thunderbird as default mailer instead of Evolution. I think thunderbirds spam handling is much smarter. | 17:09 |
| jcastro | this is a common question | 17:09 |
| jcastro | Evolution is the default mailer for GNOME so we ship that | 17:10 |
| jcastro | however, Thunderbird is in "main" and is supported | 17:10 |
| jcastro | <tpfennig> jcastro: RE: But Epiphany is default Browser of GNOME and you dont ship that? | 17:10 |
| jcastro | Correct, this was a concious decision when ubuntu was started | 17:10 |
| jcastro | Firefox is very popular and a prime example of the best of OSS, it's very familiar even to users who do not know about free software | 17:11 |
| jcastro | however, people always ask about thunderbird, and it's a subject of debates on occassion | 17:12 |
| jcastro | I think Mark actually uses thunderbird, but don't tell the evolution people that. :) | 17:12 |
| jcastro | One very big user visible change this time around is the inclusion of Open Office 3 | 17:13 |
| axenx | salve a tutti | 17:13 |
| jcastro | this was a long time coming, since the release of OOo3 last time was a bit late for our inclusion into 8.10 | 17:13 |
| jcastro | so now we have a nice OOo build in 9.04 thanks to chris cheney and the OOo team | 17:14 |
| jcastro | <tgm4883> QUESTION: Is it possible (not theoretically) to ship different software in future releases (ie, banshee instead of rhythmbox) or would the amount of work needed to be done (and upgrade breakages that may happen) make it not worth it? | 17:14 |
| jcastro | we ship what we think the best software is for a given task. | 17:14 |
| jcastro | during our ubuntu developer summits we sometimes have discussions when things need to be swapped out | 17:14 |
| jcastro | for example, including brasero | 17:15 |
| jcastro | this UDS someone is bringing up banshee, but we'll see what happens. | 17:15 |
| jcastro | Everyone has a favorite pet application | 17:15 |
| jcastro | what is nice is that these days we make it easier for you to swap out your favorite app | 17:15 |
| jcastro | a few releases ago if you tried to remove rhythmbox it would remove metapackages and whatnot | 17:15 |
| jcastro | so we're getting better at letting you mix and match more | 17:16 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: can we get xbmc into the standard set of packages | 17:16 |
| jcastro | I will look into that, I just tried it myself and thought the same thing | 17:16 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: is there anything in the works, regarding moving ubuntu to py3k | 17:16 |
| jcastro | he means python 3 | 17:16 |
| jcastro | It's on the roadmap somewhere, unfortunately I am not familiar with our toolchain right now, I do know that 2.6 is in place so hopefully 3.0 won't be too painful | 17:17 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: how is the envy-ng integration with l-r-m going on ? i just saw the wiki page related to that yesterday, and it was very interesting to read | 17:17 |
| jcastro | You'll have to ask tseliot. :) | 17:18 |
| jcastro | But, I do know that I got a new card | 17:18 |
| jcastro | and it just fired up the driver thing and installed it. | 17:18 |
| jcastro | I have used envy in the past with good success too | 17:18 |
| jcastro | One thing you might have noticed in this release is the new notify-osd | 17:18 |
| jcastro | oh, one more thing, python 3 is available in universe | 17:19 |
| jcastro | just not by default | 17:19 |
| jcastro | So, notify osd | 17:19 |
| jcastro | you might have noticed the little blingy popups when someone IMs you | 17:19 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD | 17:20 |
| jcastro | More information there | 17:20 |
| jcastro | This is a canonical-driven feature that we hope to submit to freedesktop for doing notifications | 17:20 |
| jcastro | this also ties into our messaging-indicator, which queues up when people IM you or send you a tweet or whatever | 17:21 |
| jcastro | the entire thing is meant to improve the workflow of your notifications | 17:21 |
| jcastro | right now we're calling all this new work "ayatana" | 17:21 |
| jcastro | you will want to ask Mark about it tomorrow. :) | 17:22 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: how do you feel the final release of 9.04 met the goals of the UDS design / requirments for 9.04 at conception | 17:22 |
| jcastro | I am very happy with this release | 17:22 |
| jcastro | there has been some problems with the -intel driver compositing performance | 17:22 |
| jcastro | but that will be fixed with an update, and our X team guys and intel have been working very hard to fix this | 17:23 |
| jcastro | <mrasty> question: if you are ok with adding xbmc how about winedoors, playonlinux and ubuntu tweak ! | 17:23 |
| jcastro | The list of new apps to add never gets shorter, getting something into ubuntu depends on getting someone to care about packaging it, fixing bugs, working with upstream, etc. | 17:23 |
| jcastro | but we do our best | 17:23 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: one of the features of gnome 2.26 is integrated finger print support http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.26/#rnusers.aboutme | 17:24 |
| jcastro | this doesn't seem to be included in jaunty | 17:24 |
| jcastro | I am willing to bet the drivers aren't packaged or something | 17:24 |
| jcastro | I will look into it at UDS and ask around and see what we can do | 17:24 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Why integrate some PPAs into a "Click and Run"-like Appstore so that people get newer Apps for older releases more easily | 17:24 |
| jcastro | There are some specs out there about making PPAs easier to install, like via one click or whatever | 17:25 |
| jcastro | however those are still open discussions, you'll want to keep track of those here: | 17:25 |
| jcastro | (one sec) | 17:25 |
| jcastro | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic | 17:25 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: the new notify-osd is is suppose to notfy about a USB stick being plugged in or just open a file broswer | 17:26 |
| jcastro | kenvandine_wk: Do you know this one? | 17:26 |
| kenvandine_wk | that isn't a notify-osd thing, not directly | 17:26 |
| kenvandine_wk | it should just open | 17:26 |
| jcastro | (Also, those of you with more questions about the messaging indicator, kenvandine_wk will have a session on 1500UTC this wed.) | 17:26 |
| kenvandine_wk | there is a bug about that :) | 17:26 |
| Jebus | QUESTION: back to open office. how do you see the oracle-sun-deal? will open office suffer as larry ellison isn't known for being a friend of OSS? | 17:27 |
| jcastro | Jebus: questions in -chat please, see topic | 17:27 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Why is 2D rendering in all Linux distros (including Ubuntu) considerably slower than in windows | 17:27 |
| jcastro | probably crappy drivers. :-/ | 17:27 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Why is new version of tor(0.2.0.34) not in universe? | 17:27 |
| jcastro | There was a call in ubuntu-devel for someone to help maintain Tor | 17:27 |
| jcastro | but unfortunately I don't think anyone has stepped up to care for the package. | 17:28 |
| jcastro | If anyone is interested they can stay for daniel's session in 30 minutes on how to get involved. :) | 17:28 |
| ikonia | jcastro: noted, that your lacking the tor maintainer, I'll speak to daniel | 17:28 |
| maco | jcastro: someone did step up | 17:28 |
| jcastro | ah ok, maco fill us in please! | 17:29 |
| maco | im searching my email archives | 17:29 |
| jcastro | heh ok, just chime in whenever ... | 17:29 |
| jcastro | Let's talk about ubuntu server for a bit | 17:29 |
| jcastro | my favorite new feature of ubuntu server is called screen-profiles | 17:30 |
| maco | Surfaz Gemon Meme said they'd maintain it | 17:30 |
| jcastro | which lets you set up a nice screen session that launches by default if you want | 17:30 |
| jcastro | In 2 hours Dustin Kirkland will discuss screen-sessions, so if you are interested stick around for that | 17:30 |
| jcastro | The ubuntu server blog is the best place to get information about what is going on in server land: | 17:31 |
| jcastro | http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/ | 17:31 |
| maco | they also said they were new to packaging, and Daniel Chen said he'd help out | 17:31 |
| kirkland | 1.5 hours, jcastro ;-) | 17:31 |
| === MagicFab is now known as MagicFab_afk | ||
| jcastro | heh | 17:31 |
| jcastro | Also, for those of you using ubuntu in an active directory environment we have likewise open 5 which is a nice gui way to add desktops to an AD, and a CLI tool for your servers | 17:32 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: I came late so skip if it has been discussed before, what is being done to improve the state of audio playback and record on ubuntu with regards to pulse-audio? | 17:32 |
| jcastro | I am surprised no one asked this before! | 17:32 |
| jcastro | We have been working hard to make this work for as many people as possible | 17:33 |
| jcastro | crimsun has been doing a lot of work on this, unfortunately there are still some cases where it's not so good. | 17:33 |
| maco | he's dtchen now | 17:34 |
| jcastro | however, canonical is looking to hire someone to work on sound specifically | 17:34 |
| jcastro | so if you're a C hero or something apply for the job | 17:34 |
| jcastro | another thing I like about ubuntu server is the virtualization stuff | 17:35 |
| === amine27 is now known as Amine27 | ||
| jcastro | we have a package called "python-vm-builder" | 17:35 |
| jcastro | which is a little script that let's you create VMs on the fly very quickly | 17:36 |
| jcastro | so it should be useful for sysadmins out there that need to deploy lots of VMs with different requirements | 17:36 |
| jcastro | and the last bit I want to talk about ubuntu server is Eucalyptus | 17:36 |
| jcastro | eucalyptus is a management tool for cloud-based computing | 17:37 |
| jcastro | so with ubuntu-server and eucalyptus you can set up your own cloud without having to give your data to other people. | 17:37 |
| jcastro | You can find out more about eucalyptus here: http://eucalyptus.cs.ucsb.edu/ | 17:37 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: could PPA get verified that they will not CRACK your computer then ???? some crazy script ???? | 17:38 |
| jcastro | you need to trust the ppa you enable | 17:38 |
| jcastro | for example, I would enable a PPA of a person I know with their key, but not a random one. It's up to you. | 17:38 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: do things like python-vm-builder get backported to LTS? | 17:38 |
| jcastro | some things do | 17:39 |
| jcastro | I know there are PPAs out there for some things like screen-profiles, please ask during the server intro session later today, someone will be able to answer your question | 17:39 |
| jcastro | ok moving on | 17:39 |
| jcastro | are there any areas of ubuntu that you want to know what's new? | 17:40 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: what is a PPA | 17:40 |
| jcastro | good question! | 17:40 |
| jcastro | a ppa is a personal package archive, which is a repository where people can put newer software or software not in ubuntu | 17:40 |
| jcastro | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas for more info | 17:41 |
| jcastro | people are asking about kubuntu and UNR, there will be sessions on those this week (as well as xubuntu) | 17:41 |
| jcastro | however, this is the first release where we have a full standalone UNR image | 17:42 |
| jcastro | before you had to install normal ubuntu and then UNR on top of it, now we just have one image, which is nice | 17:42 |
| jcastro | <gregknicholson> It's currently very awkward to import PPA keys?pasting text into a file, saving it, importing that. QUESTION: Why doesn't Launchpad just publish the key file, and Ubuntu be set up to do the Right Thing? by default? | 17:43 |
| jcastro | PPAs were originally for developer-only stuff | 17:43 |
| jcastro | it's only been relatively recently where normal people want to play with them | 17:43 |
| jcastro | Someone asked about this earlier, the best thing to do is watch the specs to see what is coming down the pipe | 17:44 |
| jcastro | also, on friday at 1500UTC Celso will be giving a PPA session | 17:44 |
| * jpds points at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-app-store | 17:44 | |
| jcastro | so you can ask him all these questions about PPAs and keys. | 17:44 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: rephrased what do you feel is the ubuntu value added for 9.04 on the desktop platform | 17:45 |
| jcastro | ok, hand wavy question. | 17:45 |
| jcastro | heh | 17:45 |
| jcastro | I think the value we bring is to bring all the interesting things upstream to users | 17:45 |
| jcastro | for example, before Ubuntu I had to build new GNOME with jhbuild or garnome | 17:45 |
| jcastro | at the time no one was really pushing out releases every 6 months with all the goodies | 17:45 |
| jcastro | so that's what I think the value is | 17:46 |
| ikonia | can I expand on that ? | 17:46 |
| jcastro | sure | 17:46 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Any work being done for improving Gnome performance and responsiveness. It's sometimes laggy for no apparent reason and this has been the case since forever. Windows always feels smoother and more responsive | 17:47 |
| ikonia | while I %100 take the point that the 6 month release cycle brings solid core upstream development to the desktop platform, and there are few other distros moving with such rapid release cycle, is it also not a double edged sword that the 6 month release cycle expects a full update to a desktop every 6 months to stay current and this work is not backported to LTS ? | 17:47 |
| jcastro | yes, of course, it's a comprimise sometimes | 17:48 |
| ikonia | thank you | 17:48 |
| jcastro | sometimes I get frustrated with an older PC that I have on LTS | 17:48 |
| jcastro | and I want some new bling on it | 17:48 |
| jcastro | but on the other hand I've deployed ubuntu desktops at a university before | 17:48 |
| jcastro | and there is nothing nicer than a nice, boring, LTS desktop. :) | 17:48 |
| ikonia | jcastro: I must pick this up with you at a more offtopic junture | 17:48 |
| jcastro | we think that the LTS/normal release balance is a good place to be. | 17:48 |
| jcastro | for sure. :) | 17:48 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Any work being done for improving Gnome performance and responsiveness. It's sometimes laggy for no apparent reason and this has been the case since forever. Windows always feels smoother and more responsive | 17:48 |
| jcastro | hmmm, my desktop doesn't do this, but there are some places where gnome could use more performance work | 17:49 |
| jcastro | we did some work on login time this cycle around, and hopefully with new things like dconf from upstream gnome login time will be improved. | 17:49 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Once Intel is finished with the migration to UXA and DRI2, who long until world domination? ;) (Smooth & fast Xorg is the only thing missing .. well maybe apart from 100% working open source flash | 17:50 |
| jcastro | he's referring to this: http://keithp.com/blogs/Sharpening_the_Intel_Driver_Focus/ | 17:50 |
| jcastro | which everyone with intel video should read. | 17:50 |
| jcastro | Not long hopefully, now that the worst is behind us it should get better | 17:51 |
| jcastro | we will have people from Intel at UDS to discuss this specifically, so look for good things next cycle. | 17:51 |
| jcastro | <jtholmes> Question dont take this as a disparaging comment but I believe I could personally convert more Windows users to Ubuntu if the sound, video drivers and video presentation apps were more solid. Do I stand alone on this one. | 17:51 |
| jcastro | yes, of course. | 17:51 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: what aspect of the 9.04 release stands out to you as a sales point, what is the showcase | 17:52 |
| jcastro | not 9.04 specific, but I still think wubi is the greatest tool for people to try ubuntu | 17:52 |
| jcastro | I am trying to think of what I like best in 9.04, probably a bunch of little things, not one thing | 17:53 |
| jcastro | I think this is a very solid release, so far the indications show that people haven't been having too many problems | 17:53 |
| jcastro | once the intel driver stuff gets fixed we'll be in great shape! | 17:53 |
| ikonia | intel is void, it's known about | 17:53 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: What's Ubuntu's plan for adopting gnome-shell and Gnome 3? If all goes to plan Gnome 3.0 will be Gnome 2.30 = Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. Is Gnome 3 too big a change to take in an LTS release (as KDE 4.0 was for Hardy)? | 17:53 |
| jcastro | First off, we will be shipping GNOME 3, it's just a question of when | 17:54 |
| jcastro | right now the LTS version hasn't been announced (though 10.04 is probably a good guess) | 17:54 |
| jcastro | Also, we're not sure if 2.30 will be 3.0 or if it will be delayed or whatever | 17:54 |
| jcastro | we're having this discussion at UDS, and also people from our desktop team will be attending the desktop summit this summer | 17:55 |
| maco | jcastro: mark did says 10.04 | 17:55 |
| jcastro | so by then we should know | 17:55 |
| jcastro | ok then! | 17:55 |
| tgm4883 | jcastro, http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/146 | 17:55 |
| tgm4883 | whoops, wrong channel | 17:55 |
| jcastro | for sure though, we are dedicated to bring the gnome 3 experience to people | 17:56 |
| chrisi1512 | np | 17:56 |
| somnoliento | 5 minute warning | 17:56 |
| jcastro | actually, now that I think of it, boot time is my favorite feature | 17:56 |
| jcastro | I have an intel SSD and I have a boot chart of 7 seconds flat. :) | 17:56 |
| czajkowski | jaunty does seem to boot a lot faster now | 17:56 |
| jcastro | ok, I'll take one more question | 17:57 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: What would be the easiest way to start developing programms for the gnome/Ubuntu environment? | 17:57 |
| jcastro | For GNOME programs you should try to link up with the GNOME Love folks | 17:57 |
| jcastro | or find something broken and go fix it | 17:57 |
| jcastro | for Ubuntu stick around for the next session. :) | 17:58 |
| jcastro | ok, well, we covered some new features and random questions, but it was fun and I hope you learned something | 17:58 |
| jcastro | since today is monday most of the sessiosn will be intros | 17:58 |
| ikonia | jcastro: enjoyed, thank you | 17:58 |
| jcastro | Next up will be daniel holbach with ubuntu development! | 17:59 |
| dayo | jcastro: thanks a lot :-) | 17:59 |
| * dholbach hugs jcastro | 17:59 | |
| dholbach | jcastro: well done! | 17:59 |
| dholbach | let's take a quick break everybody :) | 17:59 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 1700 UTC: Doing Ubuntu Development || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat please | ||
| dholbach | OK my friends... let's get going! | 18:00 |
| dholbach | Welcome to "Doing Ubuntu Development"! | 18:01 |
| dayo | hi | 18:01 |
| dholbach | my name is Daniel Holbach, I live in Berlin, Germany and I love working with the Ubuntu Development community | 18:01 |
| dholbach | I hope after my talk you'll all feel the same :-) | 18:01 |
| === JManGt_ is now known as JManGt | ||
| Tesla|Home | :) | 18:01 |
| dholbach | you all know how it works already: if you have questions, please do ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prefix your questions with QUESTION:, ie: | 18:02 |
| dholbach | dholbach: QUESTION: What is your dog's name? | 18:02 |
| dholbach | in this session I hope to give you all a good overview about how Ubuntu development works, how to best get involved, who to ask, when to do what and hopefully all the information makes sense too :-) | 18:03 |
| dholbach | alright... this session is not going to be a hands-on session, if you want hands-on packaging training, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training (every Thursday) | 18:04 |
| dholbach | the next one is going to be: | 18:04 |
| dholbach | 30th April, 06:00 UTC: dholbach, Getting Started with Ubuntu Development | 18:04 |
| dholbach | so let's start off with the ways on how you can learn more about Ubuntu Development, Packaging and so on | 18:04 |
| dholbach | I named one option already: Packaging Training IRC Tutorials | 18:05 |
| dholbach | they happen in #ubuntu-classroom too, every Thursday, so mark them in your calendars | 18:05 |
| dholbach | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted it the one page you have to bookmark | 18:05 |
| dholbach | because it links to all information you're going to need again | 18:06 |
| dholbach | - the Packaging Guide | 18:06 |
| dholbach | - the Ubuntu Development documentation (processes, teams, tools, etc.) | 18:06 |
| dholbach | - the MOTU Videos (hands-on training) | 18:06 |
| dholbach | - tasks to start working on | 18:07 |
| dholbach | I'm a fan of "recipe style" documentation, so maybe you'll like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes too | 18:07 |
| dholbach | as you can see from above: it's not going to work out if you're not willing to read a bit and find out for yourself | 18:08 |
| dholbach | but luckily luckily luckily there's not just documentation, there's people too :-) | 18:08 |
| dholbach | we have quite a number of initiatives where you can get in touch with people who are doing Ubuntu Development already | 18:08 |
| dholbach | - the IRC Packaging Training sessions I mentioned above | 18:09 |
| dholbach | - Ubuntu Developer Week (just like Ubuntu Open Week, but only Developer + QA material!) | 18:09 |
| dholbach | - ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com - a mailing list where you can ask all your questions - sign up here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu-mentors | 18:09 |
| dholbach | - there's the MOTU IRC channel: #ubuntu-motu - please join there and ask your packaging / development questions - it's always great to hang out there, and there's ALWAYS somebody awake :-) | 18:11 |
| dholbach | - there's the MOTU Mentoring | 18:11 |
| dholbach | <maco> dholbach: QUESTION: is there a way to get on a list of available mentors-seeking-mentees or vice versa? | 18:11 |
| dholbach | maco: just get in touch with the MOTU Mentoring Reception, they'll help you find a Mentor | 18:11 |
| dholbach | ... although a Mentor is not strictly necessary and you can usually cope quite well asking people in the MOTU channel or on the mailing list :) | 18:12 |
| dholbach | <Tesla|Home> QUESTION: is it possible to earn living developing ubuntu? | 18:12 |
| dholbach | Tesla|Home: it is - there's http://www.ubuntu.com/employment/ | 18:13 |
| dholbach | there's quite a number of Ubuntu-related jobs on there and I expect it to become more | 18:13 |
| dholbach | also I expect other companies, at some point in the future, to start looking for Ubuntu engineers and if you're a skilled Ubuntu developer that's definitely going to be a plus | 18:14 |
| dholbach | when I started working on Ubuntu, I did it because I *IMMENSELY* enjoyed it - I enjoyed the people, I enjoyed helping out, I enjoyed getting things done and I enjoyed learning things | 18:15 |
| dholbach | <dayo> dholbach: QUESTION: other than Python and C, what other languages play a substantial role in ubuntu dev? | 18:15 |
| dholbach | dayo: I think we have code in Ubuntu written in any language imaginable, but C, C++, Perl, Python are most common, I'd say - I'll get back to the "Do I need to know all these languages or what?" part of the question in a bit | 18:17 |
| dholbach | <RoAkSoAx> dholbach, QUESTION: regarding to developer jobs, are there any entre level positions or internships | 18:17 |
| dholbach | RoAkSoAx: I know Canonical has offered them in the past, but I'd need to find out more about current practise - can you drop me a mail and I'll get back to you about it? | 18:17 |
| saketh | what is 1700 UTC in pacific time? | 18:17 |
| dholbach | saketh: run date -u in a terminal and it'll tell you | 18:18 |
| dholbach | saketh: can you ask all other questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please? | 18:18 |
| saketh | i m using widows rite now | 18:18 |
| Tesla|Home | 10am, saketh | 18:18 |
| dholbach | <artir_> QUESTION: What are the differences between developing specifically for Ubuntu or doing so for generic GNOME? | 18:18 |
| saketh | ok tahnx! | 18:18 |
| dholbach | artir_: a lot of work that goes into Ubuntu was done by software authors (upstream) who decided to solve a problem for all kinds of users, Ubuntu Developers often have to integrate those efforts into Ubuntu (packaging, making it work with default configuration, fixing bits here and there, etc.) | 18:19 |
| dholbach | I'll talk a bit about upstream development and ubuntu development in a bit | 18:20 |
| === tango is now known as _tango_ | ||
| dholbach | <jtholmes> QUESTION: dhobach is there anything like cscope for python | 18:20 |
| dholbach | jtholmes: I'm sorry - I don't know | 18:20 |
| dholbach | Ok... I'll get back to some bits I wanted to talk about now - continue asking questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 18:21 |
| dholbach | one of the most important things determining what we do is the release schedule | 18:21 |
| dholbach | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule | 18:21 |
| dholbach | there you can see the release schedule for Karmic (9.10) | 18:21 |
| dholbach | I'll go through this pretty quickly | 18:22 |
| dholbach | the first third of the cycle is devoted to getting things set up, planned and merge with upstreams | 18:22 |
| dholbach | that it's all in green is a bit misleading... "green" rather indicates "everything goes" than "everything's working and great" | 18:23 |
| dholbach | so I wouldn't encourage my mom to run Karmic in the first third of the cycle :) | 18:23 |
| dholbach | a lot of the development planning happens at UDS, which this time is going to happen in Barcelona. all discussions will be available through icecast and the specifications (outcomes of the discussion sessions) will be on the wiki afterwards | 18:24 |
| dholbach | it's not only Canonical people meeting there, but we invite a lot of Ubuntu developers there, it's basically open to anybody | 18:25 |
| dholbach | ah... we also invite upstream developers too | 18:25 |
| dholbach | to get good input for the planning of the cycle | 18:25 |
| dholbach | then there's a lot of "merging" going in the first third - what does that mean? | 18:25 |
| dholbach | basically if we have package A with version 2.3.4-5ubuntu2 it means | 18:27 |
| dholbach | - upstream developers release software A version 2.3.4 on their website | 18:27 |
| dholbach | - the Debian maintainer released 5 different revisions of that in Debian | 18:27 |
| dholbach | - the Ubuntu developers added two changes on top of that | 18:27 |
| === _tango_ is now known as tang0 | ||
| steveydoteu | 18:28 | |
| dholbach | if we're in the green phase of the release cycle (so just after opening a new release) it could well be that Debian already has 2.3.6-1 of that software A in their archive | 18:28 |
| dholbach | so we need to decide do we still need those two changes we made? if yes, we need to "merge" them and get to 2.3.6-1ubuntu1 | 18:29 |
| dholbach | also if they're not really Ubuntu specific, we want to forward them to the Debian maintainers (or even the Upstream developers), so we don't have to carry that "delta" | 18:30 |
| dholbach | let's say we have package B version 1.2.3-2 in our released Ubuntu and now there's 1.2.4-1 in Debian | 18:31 |
| dholbach | we will get B automatically "sync"ed from Debian | 18:31 |
| dholbach | if there's no Ubuntu changes, we can simply overwrite the Ubuntu package | 18:31 |
| dholbach | so what does that mean? Do we just copy the .deb files? :-) | 18:31 |
| dholbach | no... we pull the source and it gets built in the Launchpad build daemons | 18:32 |
| dholbach | <goshawk> QUESTION: Debian Import is with debian sid? | 18:32 |
| === _dirk is now known as mightyDuck_ | ||
| dholbach | goshawk: yes, "Debian Sid" or "Debian unstable" | 18:32 |
| dholbach | <blfgomes> dholbach: QUESTION: How does the "forwarding to upstream" work? | 18:32 |
| dholbach | blfgomes: for most upstream projects (Debian too) you file a bug report and attach the bug there | 18:33 |
| dholbach | I'll get to "working with upstream" in just a sec | 18:33 |
| dholbach | to sum it up: in the first part of the release cycle we pull in new code, so we can solve all the bugs in the 2nd and 3rd half :) | 18:34 |
| dholbach | in the second half of the release (yellow and orange) we work hard on getting features implemented, that's following the specifications we agreed on at the Ubuntu developer summit | 18:35 |
| dholbach | also we're trying to make Ubuntu generally more solid (bigger transitions usually happen in this phase) and uploading new upstream code is absolutely fine, it's just that the automatic import is stopped | 18:36 |
| dholbach | after feature freeze (features must have landed) you can see a new freeze being introduced like every week | 18:36 |
| dholbach | that's the time where we only fix bugs and do testing testing testing | 18:36 |
| dholbach | also you will need to talk to the release team if you want to get huge untested changes into Ubuntu :-) | 18:37 |
| dholbach | <goshawk> QUESTION: is Partner Upload Deadline the deadline for packages in REVU? | 18:37 |
| dholbach | goshawk: no, I think it's about software from partners of Canonical | 18:37 |
| dholbach | goshawk: we try to have all the NEW packages - so stuff that never was in Ubuntu before (which is what REVU is for) in Ubuntu by Feature Freeze | 18:37 |
| dholbach | goshawk: that's done so we can concentrate on fixing stuff afterwards | 18:38 |
| dholbach | <maqifrnswa> QUESTION: Is "automatic import" a script, or does that mean packages can be added manually to launch pad directly if there were no ubuntu revisions in the previous release? | 18:38 |
| dholbach | maqifrnswa: the "automatic import" is a script yes, which is semi-automatically triggered by our archive admins | 18:38 |
| dholbach | <teknico> QUESTION: what if a newer upstream version is not in Debian yet? Or if the program is not in Debian at all? | 18:38 |
| dholbach | teknico: we're free to update or package as we like in Ubuntu, but the better coordinated with others, the better | 18:39 |
| dholbach | if we diverge from either upstream or Debian, it's always kind of a risk and additional work | 18:39 |
| dholbach | <RainCT> dholbach: < zepo> question: ubuntu pulls packages from debian sid, but some packages have a newer version than in debian right? where do they come from? | 18:39 |
| dholbach | zepo: right... as I said above: in some cases we decide to "rush ahead" and upload newer versions of Ubuntu - in a lot of cases this happens because Debian and Ubuntu are in different stages of their release cycles, so sometimes we can steam ahead in some cases Debian can :)( | 18:40 |
| dholbach | :-) | 18:40 |
| dholbach | everything that we want to change in a release that's already out has to go through the !sru process | 18:41 |
| dholbach | oh.. I thought that thing worked | 18:41 |
| dholbach | !sru | 18:41 |
| ubot2 | Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | 18:41 |
| dholbach | ah yes - the stable release updates process | 18:41 |
| dholbach | it's more rigorous and only well-tested and REALLY important stuff gets into -updates | 18:41 |
| dholbach | so to sum up a few things we talked about above.... what could you work on if you were interested? | 18:42 |
| dholbach | - merging / updating packages (early in the cycle) | 18:42 |
| dholbach | - work on NEW software (needs-packaging bugs) - this can be a lot of work and often isn't trivial (also early in the cycle) | 18:43 |
| dholbach | - fix bugs! (always) | 18:43 |
| dholbach | - one thing I really really like is "Bugs fixed elsewhere" | 18:43 |
| dholbach | if you check out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu | 18:43 |
| dholbach | you will find a link called "12345678 bugs fixed elsewhere" | 18:44 |
| dholbach | those are bugs that are present in Ubuntu, were forwarded to the software authors and were fixed in that project | 18:44 |
| dholbach | personally that's my favourite because it can be easy and also it shows quite well how we interact in the bigger open source picture | 18:45 |
| dholbach | (side note: if you like this topic, don't miss: Thu 30 Apr 21.00 UTC Upstream Bug Workflow - Jorge Castro) | 18:45 |
| dholbach | there meeeeeeellions of upstream software projects on the one hand (25000+ packages in Ubuntu if I remember correctly) | 18:46 |
| dholbach | and there's 10+ meeeeeeeeellions of Ubuntu users on the other hand | 18:46 |
| dholbach | Ubuntu developers and Ubuntu QA people are somewhere in between :-) | 18:46 |
| dholbach | so a good way of contributing is what Jorge will talk about: working on a bug, trying to reproduce it, get all necessary information and forward it to the software authors | 18:47 |
| dholbach | it's not about "dumping work on them", it's about getting upstream software well-tested, get information and working together with them to get it resolved | 18:48 |
| dholbach | if you're interested in a piece of software, you can act as an ambassador | 18:48 |
| dholbach | and you directly get in touch with a lot of people: | 18:48 |
| dholbach | - happy users | 18:48 |
| dholbach | - happy other Ubuntu developers and Bugsquad members | 18:48 |
| dholbach | - happy upstream developers | 18:49 |
| dholbach | - happy maintainers of other distributions | 18:49 |
| dholbach | and you can make them even happier by helping out and making sure that all necessary information is in the right places :-) | 18:49 |
| dholbach | if you want to see how happy people can get: | 18:49 |
| dholbach | this is what happened to me at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in Prague: | 18:49 |
| dholbach | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzGIaZcGcM | 18:49 |
| Gordon- | lol | 18:50 |
| Gordon- | oops sorry | 18:50 |
| dholbach | sometimes it's a bit of detective work to find the right mailing list, to find the good patch that fixed the problem we had, but if you like to learn, like to talk to people, like to get involved, have a knack for making things work and test things properly, this is an awesome place to start | 18:51 |
| dholbach | and that's also my answer to the question above about "having to know C and Python, etc.": you don't have to | 18:51 |
| dholbach | if you have the skills I mentioned above, you can take one step after the other and learn together with others | 18:52 |
| bubu1uk | Gordon-: jumping between windows? ;) | 18:52 |
| dholbach | so how do you get things uploaded into Ubuntu if you're not an Ubuntu developer yet? | 18:52 |
| dholbach | you basically attach your patch to a bug report and subscribe the "sponsors team" who will review your patch, test it, sign it with their GPG key and upload it to the build dameons for you | 18:53 |
| dholbach | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess has more info about it | 18:53 |
| dholbach | that's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted too | 18:53 |
| dholbach | once you've been through that process a couple of times and people start telling you how awesome you are, you should consider applying for Ubuntu developer status :-) | 18:53 |
| dholbach | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers has more info about that | 18:54 |
| dholbach | that's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted too :-) | 18:54 |
| dholbach | <Ireyon> QUESTION: what about dropping the release schedule for LTS releases if necessary? I mean, testing an LTS is more important than releasing it exactly 6 month after the previous release. Dapper for example did also take 2 months longer. | 18:54 |
| dholbach | Ireyon: dapper was the only release where we decided to put 6 weeks more work into it, you're right | 18:55 |
| dholbach | Ireyon: we have regular meetings of the release team on IRC where they see where and how things stand, so they evaluate the situation constantly and regularly | 18:55 |
| dholbach | Ireyon: we try hard to stick to the schedule and up until now we did quite well | 18:55 |
| dholbach | <maqifrnswa> QUESTION: You mentioned bug squad, MOTU, other packagers, people working on upstream bugs, and I'm sure there are tons of other positions - is there an "entry level" developer role that is in particularly high demand? | 18:56 |
| dholbach | maqifrnswa: I wouldn't really call them positions - it's more like a role or an activity, sometimes you dive deep into bug reports to find out more about what's broken and what you want to fix, sometimes you just merge 10 packages you were working on in the last release | 18:57 |
| dholbach | maqifrnswa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted links to a bunch of bugs and tasks that are suitable for beginners and if you take care of a package you know well, that's even better | 18:57 |
| somnoliento | 3 minutes warning | 18:58 |
| dholbach | also make sure you talk to people on #ubuntu-motu so you get feedback and learn from what they're doing | 18:58 |
| dholbach | hands up... who of you could imagine to do some Ubuntu development and help out that way? :-) | 18:58 |
| peteresqqqo | hi | 18:58 |
| drostie | maybe me. | 18:58 |
| jgoguen | o/ | 18:58 |
| * maco raises hand | 18:58 | |
| * goshawk raises | 18:59 | |
| gotunandan | me | 18:59 |
| dholbach | come on... don't be shy - I really don't bite! :-) | 18:59 |
| blfgomes | me! | 18:59 |
| indSpike | me too. | 18:59 |
| * stevepearce raises both hands :) | 18:59 | |
| * ewsubach raises his hand | 18:59 | |
| * cyphermox raises hand | 18:59 | |
| logoon | raise | 18:59 |
| * goshawk suggests to stand up and hug dholbach :) | 18:59 | |
| maco | dholbach: no, you just give Hugs Of Doom | 18:59 |
| carthik | woof! | 18:59 |
| dholbach | rock on... you guys are awesome and I really hope to see more of y'all soon | 18:59 |
| * gamerchick02 raises hand | 19:00 | |
| dholbach | also make sure you're there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training - 30th April, 06:00 UTC: dholbach, Getting Started with Ubuntu Development | 19:00 |
| jcastro | woo! | 19:00 |
| * dholbach hugs y'all back! | 19:00 | |
| jcastro | thanks daniel! | 19:00 |
| * kirkland high fives dholbach | 19:00 | |
| goshawk | thanks! | 19:00 |
| Gordon- | thanks dholbach | 19:00 |
| jcastro | ok, next up is going to be Dustin Kirkland with screen-profiles | 19:00 |
| stevepearce | great session dholbach, many thanks :) | 19:00 |
| ewsubach | thanks! | 19:00 |
| hjmf | thanks dholbach! | 19:00 |
| jcastro | take it away kirkland! | 19:00 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 1800 UTC: screen-profiles || ssh guest@ec2-67-202-41-73.compute-1.amazonaws.com || password: guest || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| indSpike | thanks dholbach | 19:00 |
| kirkland | jcastro: thank you Mr. Castro | 19:00 |
| kirkland | alrighty .... screen-profiles! | 19:00 |
| kirkland | so i'm going to divide this track up into a couple of small sets | 19:01 |
| kirkland | set 1 is a brief intro | 19:01 |
| kirkland | set 2 is a shared session demo | 19:01 |
| kirkland | and in set 3, you'll play with this on your own systems | 19:01 |
| kirkland | okay ... set 1 | 19:01 |
| kirkland | GNU screen is a text-based window manager | 19:01 |
| kirkland | the Ubuntu server differs from several other server distributions in that it does not install a graphical desktop by default | 19:02 |
| kirkland | we try to keep our server very lean and mean! | 19:02 |
| kirkland | however, many people ask us why don't we ship a graphical desktop | 19:02 |
| kirkland | in many cases, i actually believe that a *window manager* is actually what people want/need | 19:03 |
| jcastro | .oO (You can listen to Dustin's interview about screen profiles on http://ubuntupodcast.net/) -ed. | 19:03 |
| kirkland | a window manager gives you the ability to run multiple programs at the same time, in parallel, attach, detach, monitor system status, etc. | 19:03 |
| kirkland | screen has been around for 20+ years | 19:03 |
| kirkland | but in the default configuration, it's exceedingly difficult to customize | 19:04 |
| kirkland | so, for Ubuntu, we've created a phenomenal little program call screen-profiles that makes screen even more useful and user-friendly | 19:04 |
| kirkland | okay, so now for our demo .... | 19:04 |
| kirkland | so set 2, group demo! | 19:04 |
| kirkland | for this, you'll want to keep IRC open, where I'll explain what I'm doing | 19:05 |
| kirkland | but you'll also want to open up a terminal window, and ssh to this system .... | 19:05 |
| kirkland | ssh guest@guest@ec2-67-202-41-73.compute-1.amazonaws.com | 19:05 |
| kirkland | that's an instance of Ubuntu Jaunty running in Amazon's ec2 | 19:05 |
| kirkland | the password is "guest" | 19:05 |
| kirkland | i'm going to give 60 seconds here for people to login | 19:06 |
| jcastro | .oO (the ssh url and password are in the topic if you need to refer to them) | 19:06 |
| kirkland | so what you're looking at is a shared screen session | 19:06 |
| kirkland | i have write access, and everyone else has read-only access | 19:06 |
| kirkland | for demo purposes, of course | 19:07 |
| kirkland | you should see across the bottom of your terminal two light grey lights | 19:07 |
| kirkland | lines | 19:07 |
| kirkland | the top line says: | 19:07 |
| kirkland | 0*&$ shell(guest) Menu:<F9> | 19:07 |
| kirkland | we currently have one window open | 19:07 |
| kirkland | (that's going to change in a moment) | 19:07 |
| kirkland | the second line says: | 19:07 |
| kirkland | \o/ Ubuntu 9.04 2! 20# 0.57 2.6GHz 1.6GB,6% 2009-04-27 18:07:48 | 19:07 |
| kirkland | i'm going to explain those shortly | 19:07 |
| kirkland | first, i'm going to launch the F9:Menu | 19:08 |
| kirkland | and I want to show you the help menu | 19:08 |
| kirkland | in your terminal, press F4 | 19:08 |
| jcastro | kirkland: seems like some people can't get in, maybe there's a client limit? | 19:08 |
| kirkland | this will move your view over to the 2nd window I created | 19:08 |
| jcastro | but keep going | 19:08 |
| kirkland | jcastro: hmm, we have 25 people in | 19:08 |
| kirkland | 28+ and counting | 19:08 |
| jcastro | ok good | 19:09 |
| jcastro | continue, sorry | 19:09 |
| kirkland | anyone who can't see this in the ec2 instance, please run 'screen' locally | 19:09 |
| kirkland | (which will be set 3) | 19:09 |
| kirkland | okay, if you're in the screen session, please hit F4 to navigate to your 2nd window | 19:09 |
| kirkland | this is sort of like alt-tab | 19:09 |
| kirkland | okay, now, i've launched the help memu | 19:10 |
| kirkland | menu | 19:10 |
| kirkland | here, you can see that there are a couple of special actions bound to your F-keys | 19:11 |
| kirkland | in our shared screen session, i've disabled them | 19:11 |
| kirkland | but if you run 'screen' on your local jaunty system, (and choose the light profile) you should be able to use them | 19:11 |
| kirkland | so f2 will create a new window | 19:11 |
| kirkland | f3/f4 will go back and forth among open windows | 19:12 |
| kirkland | f5 will reload the profile (will demo in a moment) | 19:12 |
| kirkland | f6 will detach | 19:12 |
| kirkland | f7 will enter scrollback/search mode | 19:12 |
| kirkland | f9 will launch this menu | 19:12 |
| kirkland | and f12 will lock the screen (like a screensaver for the terminal) | 19:12 |
| kirkland | okay | 19:12 |
| kirkland | so another thing i can do from this menu is change my profile | 19:13 |
| kirkland | i have created a dozen or so different colored profiles | 19:13 |
| kirkland | i like a different color profile on each of my servers | 19:13 |
| kirkland | we're currently using the light profile | 19:13 |
| kirkland | i'm going to change it to a different one, then hit F5 to reload | 19:13 |
| === sean is now known as Guest76893 | ||
| kirkland | (this is somewhat laggy) | 19:14 |
| kirkland | (my apologies for that) | 19:14 |
| kirkland | okay, profile reloaded | 19:15 |
| kirkland | now it's white on black | 19:15 |
| kirkland | as you can see, there are other colors available, please play with them on your local setup later | 19:15 |
| kirkland | now, let's take a look at the bottom bar | 19:16 |
| kirkland | that's our status indicator | 19:16 |
| kirkland | \o/ is intended to be an approximation of the ubuntu logo (3 colors) | 19:16 |
| kirkland | followed by our current distro and release version | 19:16 |
| kirkland | the 2! indicates that there are 2 updates available | 19:16 |
| kirkland | 41# tells me that there are 41 user logged on :-) | 19:17 |
| kirkland | woohoo! | 19:17 |
| kirkland | the current load is 2.14 (changing every 2 seconds) | 19:17 |
| kirkland | this system has a single cpu, running at 2.6GHz | 19:17 |
| kirkland | but this also changes every 2 seconds, which is useful if you have cpu frequency scaling available | 19:17 |
| kirkland | there's 1.6GB of memory, of which 10% is used | 19:17 |
| kirkland | and of course, the current date and time | 19:18 |
| kirkland | but this is only a small subset of the status items you can enable | 19:18 |
| kirkland | this is intended to mimic gnome's applets in your gnome-panel | 19:18 |
| kirkland | so now i'm going to toggle some status notifications | 19:18 |
| kirkland | arch is the architecture of the system | 19:19 |
| kirkland | the battery is useful on laptops (not in ec2, though!) | 19:19 |
| kirkland | however, ec2-cost is very useful here! | 19:19 |
| kirkland | so i'm going to enable that | 19:19 |
| kirkland | as well as the hostname | 19:19 |
| kirkland | network bandwidth might be interesting on this system | 19:19 |
| kirkland | since so many of us are logged in | 19:19 |
| kirkland | also, note that there's a reboot-required icon that would popup if a system updated required | 19:20 |
| kirkland | a reboot | 19:20 |
| kirkland | this would look like this (@) | 19:20 |
| kirkland | so now I'm going to apply these, and refresh my profile | 19:20 |
| kirkland | (this operation apparently takes a minute when there's 44 of you connected!) | 19:21 |
| kirkland | okay, now we can see that this system has been up for 2 hours and 32 minutes | 19:21 |
| kirkland | and my current bill to ec2 is $0.31 :-) | 19:21 |
| kirkland | money well spent, sabfl ;-) | 19:21 |
| kirkland | sabdfl, rather | 19:22 |
| kirkland | there's a few more options here, that i'm going to skip | 19:22 |
| kirkland | but the last one is interesting | 19:22 |
| kirkland | "Install screen by default at login" | 19:22 |
| kirkland | this is what I did with your guest account before you logged in | 19:22 |
| kirkland | this is why you jumped immediately into this screen session, when you logged in | 19:22 |
| kirkland | in fact, i enable this feature on *all* of my server | 19:23 |
| kirkland | jcastro: okay, i'm going to pause now for questions | 19:23 |
| kirkland | jcastro: you want to paste them here? | 19:23 |
| jcastro | ok | 19:23 |
| jcastro | yep, one sec | 19:23 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Why doesn't the marketing department highlight supercool features like screen profiles for the server? Instead they say it would "further improve infrastructure management efficiencies" (buzzword bingo) | 19:23 |
| kirkland | jcastro: hah :-) | 19:24 |
| kirkland | jcastro: well, i accept the compliment, screen-profiles is awesome! | 19:24 |
| kirkland | jcastro: and i hope that you, the community, can help spread the good word | 19:24 |
| kirkland | jcastro: i'm hoping for karmic that screen-profiles is used ubiquitously on the sever | 19:24 |
| jcastro | <peplin> QUESTION: What's the proper way to modify screen-profiles settings? I have a screenrc that I would like to use in combination with the profiles, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to get rid of the top hardstatus line. | 19:24 |
| kirkland | jcastro: that it becomes as important to the Ubuntu server as Gnome/KDE are to Ubuntu/Kubuntu | 19:25 |
| kirkland | peplin: well, screen-profiles sources your local ~/.screenrc last | 19:25 |
| kirkland | peplin: does it not accept overrides of that hardstatus line? | 19:26 |
| peplin | I can override the bottom hardstatus, but seemingly not the line above that | 19:26 |
| kirkland | peplin: if not, i can add a feature to screen-profiles that would allow you to disable/enable the window list and/or the status line\ | 19:26 |
| kirkland | peplin: please open a bug ;-) i'll try to get that fixed for karmic | 19:27 |
| jcastro | <qense> QUESTION: Some programs also use the F* keys. How does that work? Currently screen catches them first and they aren't processed by the program | 19:27 |
| kirkland | qense: correct. you can disable screen-profiles keybindings | 19:27 |
| kirkland | everyone, back over to the shared screen session | 19:27 |
| kirkland | see "Change keybinding set" | 19:28 |
| kirkland | you can accept the 'common' set of keybindings (f-keys), or take none of them | 19:28 |
| kirkland | in which case you'd need to use the bindings that screen provides, rather than our shortcuts | 19:28 |
| kirkland | note that i did *not* use: | 19:28 |
| kirkland | f1 -> help in gnome terminal, f10 -> menu, or f11 -> fullscreen | 19:29 |
| kirkland | so as not to conflict with gnome-terminal | 19:29 |
| kirkland | jcastro: any more q's? | 19:29 |
| jcastro | https://launchpad.net/~screen-profiles/+archive/ppa | 19:29 |
| kirkland | jcastro: ah, great point .... | 19:30 |
| jcastro | I wanted to mention where people can get it for older versions of Ubuntu | 19:30 |
| jcastro | <qense> QUESTION: So actually GNU Screen is a shell wrapper giving you tabs and status indicators? | 19:30 |
| kirkland | right, so screen-profiles is packaged and in main for Jaunty | 19:30 |
| kirkland | however, i am providing packages for Hardy and Intrepid machines in a PPA | 19:30 |
| kirkland | I will, perhaps, try to get it into the backports archive | 19:31 |
| kirkland | but for now, you can use the the PPA very well | 19:31 |
| kirkland | qense: sort of ... | 19:31 |
| kirkland | qense: GNU screen is a "window manager" | 19:31 |
| kirkland | qense: that has a 50+ page manpage | 19:31 |
| kirkland | qense: really flexible, but complicated to setup | 19:31 |
| kirkland | qense: screen--profiles is sort of a best practices configuration for screen, packaged and made easy for Ubuntu\ | 19:32 |
| jcastro | <tm> QUESTION: Should I be seeing any sort of lag with screen-profiles on vs off? | 19:32 |
| jcastro | <tm> I'm noticing the clock will pause and then jump ahead. Text input is slower than with stock screen | 19:32 |
| kirkland | tm: on your local instance, or on the ec2 shared screen? | 19:32 |
| kirkland | tm: or on some other server you have access to? | 19:33 |
| jcastro | his linode | 19:33 |
| tm | ^^ | 19:33 |
| tm | I understand there's going to be some hit, but it seems quite noticeable | 19:33 |
| kirkland | tm: there's actually a bug fix for that in jaunty-proposed; should make it to jaunty-updates any day now | 19:33 |
| tm | cool | 19:33 |
| kirkland | tm: i think it should be fixed in jaunty-updates | 19:33 |
| jcastro | service with a smile! | 19:33 |
| jcastro | <HoellP> QUESTION: How do I send F* keys to the remote screen session i'm viewing in my local session? | 19:33 |
| kirkland | tm: basically, i had ionice/cpunice'd screen-profiles to the point at which there was lag; i've disabled this in the update | 19:34 |
| tm | ah | 19:34 |
| tm | thanks! | 19:34 |
| kirkland | HoellP: screen within screen? | 19:34 |
| HoellP | yes... | 19:34 |
| kirkland | HoellP: don't :-) or, if you figure out how, tell me :-) | 19:34 |
| kirkland | so to better answer HoellP's question, i do my screening like this ... | 19:35 |
| kirkland | i open one gnome-terminal tab per server I connect to | 19:35 |
| kirkland | so one ssh-session per gnome-terminal tab | 19:35 |
| kirkland | and then in each ssh/tab, I run screen, with multiple windows per server | 19:35 |
| kirkland | jcastro: okay, i'll move on to set 3 ... | 19:36 |
| kirkland | jcastro: and take a few more questions after | 19:36 |
| jcastro | sure! | 19:36 |
| kirkland | so, ladies and gents ... let's try this on your own system | 19:37 |
| kirkland | if you're running jaunty, you can just run 'screen' | 19:37 |
| kirkland | if you're not, head over to the PPA that jcastro pasted | 19:37 |
| kirkland | and install screen-profiles from there | 19:37 |
| jcastro | https://launchpad.net/~screen-profiles/+archive/ppa | 19:37 |
| kirkland | (note that the screen-profiles from that PPA is newer than the one in Jaunty, and as such includes *even more* features) | 19:37 |
| kirkland | once the screen-profiles package is installed, run 'screen' | 19:38 |
| kirkland | the first time you run it, it should prompt you to select a profile | 19:38 |
| kirkland | the 'plain' profile is actually not a screen profile | 19:38 |
| kirkland | rather, this is the system default /etc/screenrc | 19:38 |
| kirkland | very boring, includes *none* of the features i've been discussing | 19:38 |
| kirkland | as such, upstream, i've renamed this NONE instead of plain | 19:39 |
| kirkland | the screen-profiles package just comes with light, dark, and black | 19:39 |
| kirkland | 3 very simple profiles | 19:39 |
| kirkland | install screen-profiles-extras for about a dozen other colors | 19:39 |
| kirkland | so choose, one of those profiles, and now you're in screen | 19:39 |
| kirkland | play with the F-keys | 19:40 |
| kirkland | hit F2 to open a new window | 19:40 |
| kirkland | run something in that window, maybe "top" | 19:40 |
| kirkland | hit f3/f4 to switch back and forth between your windows | 19:40 |
| kirkland | now, let's detach, and reattach | 19:40 |
| kirkland | hit F6 | 19:40 |
| kirkland | that'll detach, but your program (top, etc) will still be running the background | 19:41 |
| kirkland | i use this *all the time* when I'm doing something like a big wget, or rsync | 19:41 |
| kirkland | now, reattach with "screen -r" | 19:41 |
| kirkland | you should be back in your screen session | 19:41 |
| kirkland | now, let's try scrollback mode | 19:41 |
| kirkland | (i'll demo this in the ec2 session for anyone not doign this locall) | 19:41 |
| kirkland | if you're in the ec2 session, go to the leftmost window | 19:42 |
| kirkland | if you're doing this locally, hit F7 | 19:42 |
| kirkland | this will put you in a vi-like mode scrolling and searching | 19:42 |
| kirkland | you can type terms and search just like vi | 19:42 |
| kirkland | also, this is per-window | 19:43 |
| kirkland | so if you hit f4, and go to your next window, and enter scrollback, you're scrolling for that window | 19:43 |
| kirkland | also, try F9 | 19:43 |
| kirkland | you can adjust your screen-profile's colors | 19:43 |
| kirkland | toggle status notifications | 19:43 |
| kirkland | install screen by default | 19:44 |
| kirkland | or uninstall screen by default at login | 19:44 |
| kirkland | if you do enable that | 19:44 |
| kirkland | detach (F6) | 19:44 |
| kirkland | then ssh localhost | 19:44 |
| kirkland | such that you login | 19:44 |
| kirkland | you should see screen launch by default, re-attaching to your most recent screen session | 19:44 |
| kirkland | jcastro: i'll pause again for questions ... wanna paste a few here? | 19:45 |
| jcastro | <haliner> QUESTION: How do you set up the read-only session? | 19:45 |
| jcastro | popular question. :p | 19:45 |
| kirkland | haliner: ah :-) | 19:45 |
| kirkland | that's a complicated one | 19:45 |
| kirkland | let me get you a url ... | 19:46 |
| kirkland | http://www.linux.com/feature/56443 | 19:46 |
| jcastro | we can perhaps blog that later or something | 19:46 |
| jcastro | I am sure lots of people can think of creative ways to use this | 19:46 |
| kirkland | basically, you have to make /usr/bin/screen.real setuid | 19:46 |
| jcastro | <gQuigs> QUESTION: just closing gnome-terminal keeps screen open and running.. doing that won't break anything right? | 19:46 |
| kirkland | then play with screen's acl's | 19:46 |
| jcastro | <gQuigs> aka.. do we really need to manually detach | 19:46 |
| kirkland | see http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/en/man1/screen.1.html, chacl | 19:46 |
| kirkland | gQuigs: right | 19:47 |
| kirkland | gQuigs: you can manually detach, if that's what you explicitly want to do | 19:47 |
| kirkland | in fact, as you "leave" the ec2 shared screen session, that's probably the only way you can do it | 19:47 |
| jcastro | <ktenney> does scrollback offer selection, yank, paste ... | 19:47 |
| kirkland | ktenney: yes! | 19:48 |
| kirkland | ktenney: see "copy" mode in http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/en/man1/screen.1.html | 19:48 |
| kirkland | ktenney: F7 is just a keybinding that puts you straight into copy/scrollback mode | 19:48 |
| kirkland | jcastro: any other pending questions? | 19:49 |
| jcastro | nope, continue | 19:49 |
| kirkland | jcastro: cool | 19:49 |
| jcastro | but BugeyeD say: can 'leave' by disconnecting via ssh as well: <enter>~. | 19:49 |
| kirkland | okay ... last feature i'm going to go over | 19:49 |
| kirkland | jcastro: BugeyeD: cool, thanks. | 19:50 |
| kirkland | so siretart has packaged screen-profiles for debian | 19:50 |
| kirkland | and i've heard mumblings that others are working on it for other distros too | 19:50 |
| kirkland | but people have asked me quite a bit about screen-profiles on other linux systems | 19:50 |
| jcastro | james wilcox has put it in opensuse | 19:50 |
| kirkland | jcastro: righto | 19:51 |
| kirkland | but what about ubuntu systems, where you don't have admin access, but you want to run screen-profiles? | 19:51 |
| kirkland | aha! | 19:51 |
| kirkland | screen-profiles-export | 19:51 |
| kirkland | from a system where you do have screen-profiles, you can run the screen-profiles-export command | 19:51 |
| kirkland | this will create a tarball that you can unzip on almost any linux system that has screen installed | 19:52 |
| kirkland | and you'll get about 90% of screen-profiles functionality | 19:52 |
| kirkland | you won't get the F9 menu command | 19:52 |
| kirkland | (the python-newt deps aren't everywhere) | 19:52 |
| kirkland | but you can cd ~/.screen-profiles | 19:52 |
| kirkland | and manually edit the mostly-intuitive configuration files there | 19:52 |
| kirkland | such as ~/.screen-profiles/status | 19:53 |
| kirkland | that's how you turn on/off the status notifications in the bottom window | 19:53 |
| kirkland | so that's about all i have to say | 19:54 |
| jcastro | woo! | 19:54 |
| kirkland | i have some new features planned for karmic | 19:54 |
| dresi | hi! | 19:54 |
| kirkland | or, if you use the screen-profiles PPA, you'll get this sooner ;-) | 19:54 |
| dresi | i am from spain. Any person talnking in spanish? | 19:54 |
| jcastro | dresi: #ubuntu-classroom-chat please | 19:54 |
| dresi | ok | 19:54 |
| kirkland | i'll take any other questions at this point | 19:55 |
| kirkland | or turn it over to jcastro ;-) | 19:55 |
| jcastro | ok, thanks dustin! | 19:55 |
| jcastro | what's your blog so we can follow along? | 19:55 |
| kirkland | jcastro: :-) http://blog.dustinkirkland.com | 19:55 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 1900 UTC: screen-profiles || Intro to Ubuntu Brainstorm || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jcastro | ok, everyone take 5 before the next session | 19:55 |
| jcastro | thanks Dustin! | 19:56 |
| kirkland | i will be booting everyone off of ec2 now :-) | 19:56 |
| Veeyawn | Thanks Dustin | 19:56 |
| thegrieve | /me cheers | 19:56 |
| somnoliento | This was awesome! thanks! | 19:56 |
| thegrieve | hehe | 19:56 |
| thegrieve | thanks alot | 19:56 |
| JFo | screen is my new favorite thing | 19:56 |
| JFo | thanks kirkland | 19:56 |
| kirkland | ||^o | 19:57 |
| * kirkland takes a bow | 19:57 | |
| * gQuigs claps | 19:57 | |
| kirkland | #screen-profiles if you want to discuss further, with other members of the screen-profiles community | 19:58 |
| jcastro | kirkland: what was the final cost of the demo? | 19:59 |
| jcastro | according to the applet? | 19:59 |
| kirkland | jcastro: $0.42 | 19:59 |
| kirkland | (appropriate) | 19:59 |
| jcastro | ok | 20:00 |
| jcastro | let's get started | 20:00 |
| jcastro | I'm going to be running this session on Ubuntu Brainstorm | 20:00 |
| jcastro | my name is Jorge Castro and I'm on the community team | 20:00 |
| jcastro | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ | 20:01 |
| jcastro | So what is brainstorm? | 20:01 |
| jcastro | So, at it's basic level it is a website where anyone can make an account | 20:01 |
| jcastro | and then submit ideas about things they would like to see in Ubuntu | 20:01 |
| jcastro | People then vote on ideas they like, and ideas they don't like | 20:02 |
| jcastro | after a while the good ideas tend to drift to the top | 20:02 |
| jcastro | and the not-so-good ideas (like mine), end up in the gutter. :) | 20:02 |
| jcastro | every cycle I do a sum up of all the ideas in each category | 20:02 |
| jcastro | and then I do a presentation at UDS where I outline things like "Users want foo, and bar" | 20:02 |
| jcastro | in addition to that each category list is handed to whoever develops that feature or is responsible for that part of ubuntu | 20:03 |
| jcastro | so for example I would hand the list of screen-profiles ideas to kirkland | 20:03 |
| jcastro | and then he would go through them and see which ones he can implement (as an example) | 20:03 |
| jcastro | Have any of you ever filed ideas on brainstorm? | 20:04 |
| jcastro | or go to it on a regular basis, or participate in some way? | 20:04 |
| jcastro | *crickets* | 20:04 |
| JFo | I go there, but I am not able to contribute very much other than wishing I could retranslate the meanings of some of the posts | 20:05 |
| JFo | :) | 20:05 |
| JFo | some of them are difficult to understand | 20:05 |
| jcastro | aha | 20:05 |
| jcastro | so that brings up a good point | 20:05 |
| jcastro | if you want your idea to be popular you can do certain things | 20:05 |
| jcastro | first off, you want to make sure people can understand your question | 20:06 |
| jcastro | especially if english isn't your strongest language, you might want to ask someone to make sure your idea is readable so you're not asking everyone why their base belongs to us. | 20:06 |
| jcastro | another good tip is to make sure your idea is specific | 20:06 |
| jcastro | and not so general | 20:06 |
| jcastro | so for example a common idea that get's marked duplicate is "Ubuntu needs better hardware support" | 20:07 |
| jcastro | this ends up being a bad idea to put on the site because that's a common problem that everyone knows about and is working towards | 20:07 |
| JFo | how is it moderated jcastro? | 20:07 |
| jcastro | it's like saying "Humans should enjoy breathing". :) | 20:07 |
| jcastro | ok, so moderation | 20:07 |
| jcastro | there are a set of moderators who read the incoming queue | 20:08 |
| jcastro | and they +1 or -1 the idea | 20:08 |
| jcastro | most of the time it's a duplicate and they mark it as such | 20:08 |
| jcastro | in fact, we're also always looking for moderators | 20:08 |
| zepo | i discovered that website yesterday and browsed through the ideas, there were a lot of good suggestions on it. i tried to vote on a few but that required an account so i didnt | 20:08 |
| JFo | I'm interested in moderation jcastro | 20:08 |
| JFo | or rather becoming a moderator | 20:09 |
| jcastro | If you are interested in moderation please go here: http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/44 | 20:09 |
| jcastro | and follow the directions | 20:09 |
| JFo | thank you | 20:09 |
| jcastro | <gregknicholson> QUESTION: I don't want yet another login to manage. Does Brainstorm work transparently with OpenID? Perhaps simple voting for ideas could also be done via OpenMicroBlogging? | 20:09 |
| jcastro | Currently we're working on having brainstorm accept openid's | 20:09 |
| jcastro | this is still a work in progress | 20:09 |
| jcastro | right now it uses QA accounts (the same account you would use to test ISOs) | 20:09 |
| jcastro | voting through microblogging would be real interesting I think | 20:10 |
| jcastro | <zaidka> FOLLOW UP TO gregknicholson QUESTION: Can we use launchpad login credentials? | 20:10 |
| jcastro | launchpad is an openid | 20:10 |
| jcastro | so once that works your launchpad account should work | 20:11 |
| jcastro | you can also follow along the latest ideas on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/brainstormnews | 20:11 |
| jcastro | ok, so more on how to make a good idea | 20:11 |
| jcastro | sometimes people don't know the difference between an idea and a bug | 20:12 |
| jcastro | usually a bug is a specific problem with a program | 20:12 |
| jcastro | for example: "My ATI driver is broken" is a specific bug | 20:12 |
| jcastro | you would file a bug about that | 20:12 |
| jcastro | however, something like "There needs to be a better way to install these stupid drivers" would be a good idea. | 20:13 |
| jcastro | we have jockey that does that for you by the way, but hopefully you get the idea | 20:13 |
| === tm is now known as tmurase | ||
| rashief | exit | 20:13 |
| jcastro | so trying to make your idea specific and not general would be a good idea | 20:14 |
| jcastro | we try our best to communicate ideas from users to other projects as well | 20:14 |
| jcastro | so for example if you have ideas about the rhythmbox music player | 20:14 |
| jcastro | we let you search through brainstorm on ideas just specific to that | 20:14 |
| jcastro | we also let you see which ideas are being implemented here: | 20:14 |
| jcastro | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ideas_in_development/ | 20:15 |
| jcastro | so at least once per cycle we try to go through the ideas and mark them accordingly | 20:15 |
| jcastro | but there are so many ideas that this doesn't scale | 20:15 |
| jcastro | which is why depend on moderators who know more about ubuntu to mark ideas appropriately | 20:15 |
| jcastro | with almost 15,000 ideas and 1.8 million votes, you can see why we need to "crowdsource" the sorting of ideas | 20:16 |
| jcastro | any questions so far? | 20:16 |
| jcastro | anyone? | 20:17 |
| jcastro | bueller? | 20:17 |
| jcastro | everyone must have left to go play with screen profiles. | 20:17 |
| jcastro | ok let me talk about ideatorrent for a bit | 20:18 |
| jcastro | http://www.ideatorrent.org/ | 20:18 |
| jcastro | ideatorrent is the open code that brainstorm is built on | 20:18 |
| jcastro | It was primarily developed by Nicholas Deschildre for brainstorm, but is open source so you are encouraged to take it and use it for your needs. | 20:19 |
| jcastro | <somnoliento> QUESTION: Honestly, how much weight do developers put in these ideas? what's their recepction like at UDS? | 20:19 |
| jcastro | More than people think we do. :) | 20:19 |
| jcastro | To be honest, a great deal of the ideas are things that end up on the roadmap anyway | 20:19 |
| jcastro | If you were to ask any ubuntu users what their top 10 gripes are, you'd probably get a similar list. :) | 20:20 |
| jcastro | we do however go through the ideas and try to at the minimum at least answer the person even if we end up not implementing it | 20:21 |
| jcastro | some ideas will forever be in progress, things like hardware support, suspend/resume, wifi, etc, will always be worked on | 20:21 |
| jcastro | Well, if you're interested in participating, check out this post: http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/44 | 20:22 |
| JFo | jcastro, is it possible to break those ideas down into ideas for specific releases? | 20:22 |
| JFo | for instance the suspend/resume... | 20:23 |
| jcastro | we started tagging them, but could use more help | 20:23 |
| JFo | well, I have my request in | 20:23 |
| JFo | :) | 20:23 |
| jcastro | <FiveAcres> QUESTION: When I followed brainstorm, it seemed a lot of suggestions revolved around propriety codecs and file formats. Does this effect how the suggestions are evaluated? | 20:23 |
| jcastro | Well that depends | 20:23 |
| jcastro | The ideas are suggestions, so if it conflicts with how Ubuntu is made right now it probably won't be implemented | 20:24 |
| jcastro | so we ship proprietary drivers in restricted, but for example you won't see adobe reader by default due to votes on brainstorm | 20:24 |
| jcastro | <gQuigs> QUESTION: should I be using any specific tags on my ideas | 20:25 |
| jcastro | We don't really enforce a set of tags, I follow what other people and they make sense | 20:25 |
| jcastro | so things like "multimedia" or "jaunty" or whatever | 20:25 |
| jcastro | as it turns out geeks are pretty good at organizing things, even in a freeform manner | 20:25 |
| jcastro | to go back to FiveAcres question, we do use it to acknowledge demand for things | 20:26 |
| jcastro | <zaidka> QUESTION: Say I have an idea and i implement it on my own, do I submit it on brainstorm or submit the patch directly to launchpad? | 20:26 |
| jcastro | good question | 20:26 |
| jcastro | there is a field in brainstorm for you to link ideas to bugs | 20:27 |
| jcastro | so you can link the idea, but you want to have your code in launchpad instead so someone sees it | 20:27 |
| jcastro | also, feel free to take an idea in brainstorm and just start your own project | 20:27 |
| jcastro | there's nothing to stop you from implementing any of these ideas and launching your own project | 20:28 |
| eddie1 | helo ek kort help | 20:29 |
| jcastro | any other questions about brainstorm? | 20:29 |
| jcastro | well, I encourage you to use brainstorm and consider using it, or helping contribute! | 20:30 |
| jcastro | I guess we could mingle for a bit until the next session | 20:31 |
| jcastro | smoke if you got em? | 20:31 |
| * JFo applauds | 20:31 | |
| * BugeyeD coughs | 20:31 | |
| JFo | heh | 20:31 |
| * Bodsda nods appreciation | 20:31 | |
| * thegrieve cheers | 20:31 | |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 2000 UTC: Introduction to Kubuntu || Intro to Ubuntu Brainstorm || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jcastro | ok, I suspect the next session will be quite popular, so go dent/tweet to your friends! | 20:31 |
| === tmurase is now known as tmurase_ | ||
| === tmurase_ is now known as tmurase | ||
| jcastro | thanks everyone for showing up today, I hope you are learning and having a good time | 20:33 |
| Veeyawn | Thx jcastro | 20:33 |
| zaidka | thank you jcastro | 20:33 |
| Bodsda | Thanks jcastro | 20:33 |
| jcastro | please send your feedback to jorge@ubuntu.com, good, bad, or otherwise. :) | 20:33 |
| zaidka | so this ideatorrent thing has nothing to do with the pirate bay huh :P | 20:34 |
| jcastro | heh | 20:35 |
| ajmctaggart | lol no zaidka, different use of word "torrent" | 20:35 |
| * eagles0513875 takes my seat in front of the room | 20:36 | |
| jcastro | so, we're 10 people short of hitting 300 | 20:36 |
| jcastro | so we need 10 more kubuntu maniacs | 20:36 |
| eagles0513875 | lol | 20:36 |
| eagles0513875 | woot | 20:36 |
| * Zelut sits in front of eagles0513875 | 20:36 | |
| jcastro | go grab a friend! | 20:36 |
| * eagles0513875 grabs my desk and sits just beside Zelut | 20:36 | |
| jcastro | also, at the end of each day we have a blank slot for emergency topics that people might want to do | 20:37 |
| jcastro | so if you want to get involved let me know | 20:37 |
| eagles0513875 | :) | 20:38 |
| SiDi | #u-c-chat is so silent all of a sudden | 20:38 |
| eagles0513875 | well not really an emergency topic but packaging and bug fixing would be interesting to go over for those of us who are new such as myself | 20:38 |
| sirdiego | ignore #ubuntu-classroom CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS | 20:38 |
| jcastro | sirdiego: bug stuff coming up according to the schedule | 20:39 |
| brousch | Emergency topics? Like what Ubuntu is doing to stop the spread of the swine flu? | 20:39 |
| jcastro | there is also a recurring packaging class on thursdays, let me dig it up | 20:39 |
| jcastro | eagles0513875: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training | 20:39 |
| eagles0513875 | sweet will ahve to look at that sometime | 20:40 |
| jcastro | we have a more advanced Developer Week later on in the cycle | 20:40 |
| jcastro | for those of you that want to cut your teeth on something more hardcore | 20:40 |
| sirdiego | jcastro: no way to dissable? if i type with / an error occurs | 20:40 |
| Bodsda | ignore #ubuntu-classroom CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS | 20:41 |
| Bodsda | ah crap | 20:41 |
| jcastro | sirdiego: I think it depends on the client? | 20:41 |
| jcastro | ask the people in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, they should be able to help you | 20:41 |
| sirdiego | yeah that might be the point | 20:41 |
| jcastro | feel free to make a note on the wiki if you figure it out | 20:42 |
| jcastro | so what do you guys think of the schedule so far? | 20:43 |
| jcastro | are the sessions interesting to you? | 20:43 |
| jcastro | We are trying to diversify. :) | 20:43 |
| jkernsjr | screen session was way cool! | 20:44 |
| ajmctaggart | first time around jcastro, trying to catch as much as I can... | 20:44 |
| ajmctaggart | UTC confuses me :) | 20:44 |
| jcastro | jkernsjr: yeah, I think we should definately use one of those for some sessions | 20:44 |
| eagles0513875 | jcastro: make i make a suggestoin for any meetings as well as stuff in here | 20:44 |
| jcastro | ajmctaggart: yeah | 20:44 |
| thegrieve | +1 kudos to kirkland again here too | 20:44 |
| jcastro | eagles0513875: sure | 20:44 |
| robotangel | me too but I think the topics last year (packaging, pyqt, bzr) were a bit more interesting | 20:45 |
| eagles0513875 | jcastro: i was thinking we should use a teamspeak server or ther eis an open source server called mumble and client it would be cool to use thsoe for these sessions | 20:45 |
| jcastro | robotangel: we're trying to put the developer stuff in developer week, and more intro sessions for this week | 20:45 |
| jcastro | robotangel: so an intro week, and a more advanced week | 20:45 |
| === yusuf is now known as yusuf_ | ||
| jcastro | eagles0513875: jono started doing streaming video from his house where you could chat with him in a room and he will answer questions, etc. | 20:46 |
| === yusuf_ is now known as yusuf | ||
| jcastro | but yeah, that would be cool | 20:46 |
| eagles0513875 | ya thing is we need someone who has the bandwith | 20:46 |
| eagles0513875 | it can be done and a channel for all kubuntu related rooms | 20:46 |
| robotangel | oh, I didn't know there was a developer week, thanks for the information | 20:46 |
| jkernsjr | you can use something like tokbox? | 20:46 |
| ikt | ustream? | 20:47 |
| jcastro | robotangel: we have 1 openweek and 1 developerweek per cycle | 20:47 |
| jcastro | ikt: yeah ustream is what jono used | 20:47 |
| Ireyon | the automated desktop testing session of the developer week three months ago was interesting :) | 20:47 |
| ikt | nice :) | 20:47 |
| eagles0513875 | jcastro: thats sweet | 20:48 |
| robotangel | somehow I never noticed the dev-week, nice to know there is one :) | 20:48 |
| jkernsjr | jcastro: do you need a ton of bandwidth just to do a stream on youstream? | 20:48 |
| SiDi | jcastro, when is the developerweek beginning, please ? | 20:48 |
| jcastro | SiDi: we haven't decided yet, probably julyish? | 20:48 |
| jcastro | we'll announce it as soon as we know | 20:48 |
| SiDi | jcastro, alright :) thanks | 20:48 |
| eagles0513875 | jcastro: love the name of 9.10 | 20:49 |
| eagles0513875 | karmic koala | 20:49 |
| jcastro | jkernsjr: no idea, haven't looked into it | 20:49 |
| eagles0513875 | who comes up with these names | 20:49 |
| sirdiego | jcastro: to hide join/part msg with pidgin you must enable the same namend plugin (= | 20:49 |
| sirdiego | but the ignore command dont work =( | 20:49 |
| jcastro | I haven't used pidgin for irc | 20:49 |
| jcastro | though with the messaging indicator you get a nice little queue of your messages on your panel | 20:50 |
| jcastro | I should look at it again | 20:50 |
| jkernsjr | jcastro: its pretty ok..just puts another tab w/ your irc chat in it | 20:50 |
| jkernsjr | just doesn't have all the commands you might get with a full blown irc client | 20:50 |
| sirdiego | for following the uow its good enough | 20:52 |
| sirdiego | i hope^^ | 20:52 |
| jcastro | ~8 minutes until kubuntu! | 20:53 |
| eagles0513875 | jcastro: it is always kubuntu | 20:54 |
| sirdiego | :P | 20:55 |
| Ireyon | kubuntus translations suck a little. but i didn't get the official kde translations to work... :( | 20:56 |
| JFo | this has all of the makings of a VI versus EMACS chat ;-) | 20:56 |
| daskreech | smeag0l: My prekious!! | 20:56 |
| daskreech | EMACS!!!! | 20:56 |
| smeag0l | :) | 20:56 |
| daskreech | I'm sorry I'll go sit over there <---- | 20:56 |
| JFo | heh | 20:56 |
| AndySpain | i have set my kubuntu to be in spanish, yet it is in spanish, English and German | 20:57 |
| sirdiego | Ireyon: if you find a method let me know | 20:57 |
| eagles0513875 | AndySpain: file a bugreport on launchpad | 20:58 |
| jcastro | that's a known problem | 20:58 |
| AndySpain | dunno what are the requirement for that | 20:59 |
| === smeag0l is now known as smeg0l | ||
| AndySpain | nor the exact link | 20:59 |
| jcastro | translations session is friday! | 20:59 |
| AndySpain | am new to it | 20:59 |
| jcastro | Riddell: ready? | 21:01 |
| Riddell | almost | 21:01 |
| Ireyon | i'm also not too experienced, though i've started using ubuntu 2 years ago | 21:01 |
| jcastro | ok everyone, Jonathan Riddell is going to talk about Kubuntu | 21:01 |
| maco | AndySpain: join -chat | 21:01 |
| jcastro | everyone please move chat to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 21:01 |
| Riddell | Good evening Friends. | 21:02 |
| Riddell | My name is Jonathan Riddell and I'm an international freedom fighter. I spend my days spreading freedom through the world through the medium of Kubuntu and KDE. | 21:02 |
| Riddell | who's all here to hear about Kubuntu? | 21:02 |
| ajmctaggart | +1 | 21:02 |
| Bodsda | +1 | 21:02 |
| hollman | +1 | 21:02 |
| gamerchick02 | +1 | 21:02 |
| defrysk | o/ | 21:02 |
| thegrieve | +1 | 21:02 |
| ralf__ | me too | 21:02 |
| michel1 | +1 | 21:02 |
| HoellP | everyone of course | 21:02 |
| atoom | +1 | 21:02 |
| ceelight | +1 | 21:02 |
| Riddell | :) | 21:02 |
| daskreech | o/ | 21:02 |
| AndySpain | jacastro Me on kubunto for 2 months now | 21:02 |
| daskreech | * | 21:02 |
| eagles0513875 | +1 | 21:03 |
| Riddell | KDE is the original and best free software desktop. | 21:03 |
| JFo | +1 | 21:03 |
| eagles0513875 | here here | 21:03 |
| Riddell | If you ever tried to use free software or unix as a desktop before KDE you were probably the sort of person to wear a bow tie. | 21:03 |
| eagles0513875 | hahahah thats me lol back in preschool | 21:03 |
| Riddell | At Kubuntu we aim to create a distro that brings out the best in KDE by selecting the best apps and releasing with the latest versions. | 21:03 |
| Riddell | We are part of the lovely Ubuntu community and follow all their values. | 21:04 |
| eagles0513875 | here here | 21:04 |
| maco | eagles0513875: -chat please | 21:04 |
| eagles0513875 | dont mean to interrupt but not only lovely but the best distro around in my honest opinion | 21:04 |
| Bodsda | eagles0513875: could you here here in -chat please | 21:04 |
| * eagles0513875 zips lips | 21:04 | |
| daskreech | eagles0513875: #ubuntu-calssroom-chat | 21:04 |
| daskreech | eagles0513875: #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 21:04 |
| Riddell | Kubuntu is one of the commercially supported products by Canonical, and other companies. | 21:05 |
| Riddell | but more importantly we are a community product made by beatiful people | 21:05 |
| jcastro | (we've gone all day without needing moderation, please be respectful to the presenter) | 21:05 |
| Riddell | A few years ago KDE developers had created KDE 3 and saw that it was a good product. Stable, feature filled, good looking too. Competed well with the competition. | 21:06 |
| AndySpain | the class will be here or in -classroom-chat? | 21:06 |
| Riddell | But we want world domination. As we'd say in Ubuntu land, bug number 1. | 21:06 |
| * eagles0513875 shhhhhhhhhh its in here | 21:06 | |
| jcastro | the class is in here, questions in -chat, please see topic | 21:06 |
| Riddell | KDE 3 had gone about as far as the technology would allow | 21:07 |
| * sirderigo leave, i dont like kde | 21:07 | |
| Riddell | So a lot of the base was thrown away and re-written to give us a technology platform that would be the most powerful and intuitive for developers to create rocking applications | 21:08 |
| AndySpain | ah, ok. thx jacastro. | 21:08 |
| Riddell | The result is KDE 4 | 21:08 |
| Riddell | That was a necessary transition, it's been quite painful but is bearing shiny blingy fruit now | 21:08 |
| Riddell | KDE 4.0 was intended for developers and KDE fanboys. We released an unsupported version alongside the stable 8.04 release | 21:09 |
| Riddell | KDE 4.1 showed where we want to be and we released that with 8.10 which as the intrepid port-LTS release is intended for people who have a good idea what they're doing | 21:09 |
| Riddell | KDE 4.2, included in our latest 9.04 Kubuntu release from last week is recommended for general users and users of previous versions will be prompted to upgrade | 21:09 |
| Riddell | Some of the nice new features in 9.04 include improved printer setup.. | 21:10 |
| Riddell | We changed from our previous Kubuntu-specific package manager to packagekit which will allow distros to work together on the app | 21:10 |
| Riddell | And we got rid of almost all the KDE 3 apps (OpenOffice and k3b last ones standing) | 21:10 |
| Riddell | on top of all the good stuff that came with KDE 4.2 like the Plasma desktop with all its bling | 21:10 |
| Riddell | also some world leading apps like Digikam got updated to KDE 4 versions with lots of improvements | 21:11 |
| Riddell | It wasn't perfect though, there's a few too many problems with the X drivers for my liking and the new network manager is not as reliable as it should be (I hope to update the network manager soon) | 21:11 |
| Riddell | The KDE 4 timeline fits in quite nicely with our LTS (long term support) cycle, I expect by the next LTS in 10.04 KDE 4 will be a work of perfection :) | 21:11 |
| Riddell | There's plenty to work on, improving the package manager, finishing off our printer work, getting rid of the last KDE 3 apps as well as our ongoing tasks of packaging and fixing lots of bugs | 21:12 |
| Riddell | let's take some questions,maybe there'll be something to counter the negativity of our friend sirdiego :) | 21:13 |
| Riddell | 21:12 < daskreech> QUESTION: WIll Canonical be interested in putting one person on KDE4 OO.o Integration ? | 21:13 |
| sirdiego | hu? | 21:13 |
| sirdiego | i like kde btw im not sirderigo :D | 21:14 |
| Riddell | daskreech: OO is looking pretty behind the times without a KDE 4 port | 21:14 |
| * eagles0513875 raises my hand | 21:14 | |
| ralf__ | you are right for the drivers, I'm using a notebook with nvidia-drivers and there are still some slow-downs using the desktop effects | 21:14 |
| Riddell | questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat people | 21:14 |
| Riddell | but I can't say what canonical will or won't do, I'm tempted to give it a shot myself though | 21:14 |
| smeg0l | i'm currently running ubuntu because in kubuntu 9.04 in the gui it wount acknowledge any passwd it danish keyboard and language ? | 21:15 |
| Riddell | but I'm pretty certain it's slow and ugly work | 21:15 |
| Riddell | sorry sirdiego | 21:15 |
| smeg0l | sry | 21:15 |
| Riddell | 21:05 < kusanagi> Riddell, QUESTION: does kubuntu plans to have guest session like ubuntu does? | 21:15 |
| Riddell | kusanagi: yes I'd love that, it just needs the patch being sorted, we did have someone assigned to it but they got busy and havn't had time | 21:16 |
| Riddell | so volunteers welcome | 21:16 |
| Riddell | why are there lot of installed programs that dont show in the menu? (in ubuntu appears everything) | 21:16 |
| Riddell | dunno, sounds like a bug, file a bug and poke us until we look into it | 21:16 |
| Riddell | 21:07 < T0m4rn0ld> QUESTION: Will Canonical sponsor work on the webkit kpart to finally bring a modern browsing experience to Kubuntu? | 21:17 |
| Riddell | questions asking for funding from canonical are unlikely to get much of an answer, I don't hold the purse strings :) | 21:17 |
| Riddell | but I do want to look into alternatives to konqueror, it's getting too behind the times | 21:17 |
| Riddell | we'll probably discuss that at UDS | 21:17 |
| nixternal | such as? | 21:18 |
| nixternal | rekonq....arora....firefox? | 21:18 |
| === maco changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 2000 UTC: Introduction to Xubuntu || Intro to Kubuntu || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| Riddell | KDE based of course so rekonq or arora or webkitkde, we'll have to evaluate them all to see if they're good enough | 21:18 |
| Riddell | 21:10 < JFo> QUESTION: is there an easy way to set KDE up to test it on a Gnome based install without messing anything up? | 21:18 |
| Riddell | apt-get install kubuntu-desktop | 21:18 |
| Riddell | doesn't mess up anything, just installs the programmes | 21:19 |
| Riddell | you can use a chroot if you really want to keep everything untouched | 21:19 |
| ralf__ | arora isn't too bad, but the KDE-integration is not very god. Maybe rekonq will do, but I haven't tried it yet | 21:19 |
| Riddell | 21:10 < Bodsda_> QUESTION: Improved printer setup is in KDE only, meaning other derivitavies wont benefit from it? | 21:19 |
| Riddell | other ubuntu variants can use system-config-printer-kde if they like, or they can use another app, it's all just frontends to the same hal and cups logic | 21:20 |
| ajmctaggart | Riddell, I have tried that many times, apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, the problem is, it's not as easily removed...any recommendations? | 21:20 |
| Riddell | 21:10 < daskreech> QUESTION: how long will you keep around KDE3 libs for third party apps that are not ported yet | 21:20 |
| Riddell | we'll keep KDE 3 libs around as long as they're needed, probably several cycles yet, but I'd like to get them off the CD, they just take up valuable room | 21:21 |
| Riddell | 21:14 < daskreech> QUESTION: There is a LOT of things not shipped by default with Kubuntu (Wallpapers,Themes, Plasmoids etc) can we have a virtual package that does a one shot install of a fuller kubuntu experience like kubuntu-restricted-extras does? | 21:21 |
| daskreech | That's a CD issues awell | 21:21 |
| Riddell | one CD only has space for a basic desktop | 21:21 |
| Riddell | I think that the Download buttons appearing on apps is a better way to install extra themes and widgets | 21:22 |
| eagles0513875 | i think what he means is as you are installing why not pull more things off the repos as one is installing | 21:22 |
| Riddell | 21:14 < mrasty> QUESTION: what does canonical/ubuntu do for the kde project apart from producing packages ? | 21:22 |
| Riddell | get it out infront of millions of users | 21:22 |
| Riddell | that's out main goal and achievement | 21:22 |
| nixternal | Riddell: time to put the answer to this question on k.o/FAQ :) | 21:22 |
| Riddell | get high profile users like the French parliament too | 21:23 |
| Riddell | we fill in obvious gaps that don't get worked on by upstream because they're not very sexy, like printer setup or user setup | 21:23 |
| daskreech | viva la French! | 21:23 |
| Riddell | but the main task of distros is to get users and hopefully bring back some of those users to contribute | 21:24 |
| Riddell | 21:16 < alexismedina> QUESTION: when UXA will be mature in kubuntu for intel drivers? | 21:24 |
| Riddell | dunno, ask Intel | 21:24 |
| Riddell | 21:16 < Ireyon> QUESTION: what about shipping the Oxygen-style for GTK-applications with kubuntu? looks quite nice in my opinion. | 21:24 |
| Riddell | we shipped gtk curve in this release because it was popular and fits in well with the KDE theming | 21:25 |
| Riddell | if there's other themes we should look at do let us know, but really this is a GTK bug, it should ship with a decent looking theme itself | 21:25 |
| daskreech | So file a bug on LP for that? | 21:25 |
| Riddell | 21:17 < sirdiego> QUESTION: whats going on with the translations in kubuntu? will they be better in next kubuntu release? | 21:25 |
| Riddell | we need more QA done on translations | 21:26 |
| Riddell | I'd like to get people checking and double checking that it all works earlier in the cycle | 21:26 |
| apachelogger | I am working on establishing a sensible structure to support that. | 21:27 |
| Riddell | the process hasn't been working as well as it should mostly because of a series of smallish issues that take too long to resolve | 21:27 |
| Riddell | and I'm not the best person to check it all since I work in English | 21:27 |
| Riddell | having said that, there's only limited places where it's broken in 9.04 and those should all be fixable | 21:28 |
| Riddell | if you have more problems, shout about them until we work out what's up | 21:28 |
| Riddell | 21:17 < zepo> QUESTION: do you think Ubuntu users should switch to Kubuntu, and why? | 21:28 |
| Riddell | I think people should use whatever they like :) if you're a Kubuntu user you are of course already an Ubuntu user | 21:28 |
| Riddell | although not an Ubuntu Desktop user | 21:29 |
| ajmctaggart | member:identifier:riddell what is the best way in your opinion to spread the word about the benefits of an integrated desktop...KDE is awesome, but it takes the integration of Mac and combines it with a TON of options, similar to Windows is able to do, making a difficult environment to get into from scratch... | 21:29 |
| Riddell | gnome is a fine desktop, although it lacks much of a long term outlook in my subjective opinion | 21:29 |
| Riddell | the main reason I love KDE and Qt is that it's the best development platform in the world | 21:29 |
| Riddell | users can pick whatever they're happiest with though | 21:29 |
| Riddell | 21:18 < francisco_t> QUESTION: Some news about qt-firefox? | 21:30 |
| Riddell | dunno, Nokia started that, you'd need to ask there | 21:30 |
| Riddell | 21:20 < LjL> QUESTION: is there an interest in providing, when possible, native KDE applications (with support for KParts, kioslaves, and all those KDE-specific things) as opposed to merely Qt applications? I seem to see a rise of Qt-but-not-really-KDE applications since KDE 4 | 21:30 |
| Riddell | full KDE integration is best for sure | 21:30 |
| Riddell | I don't know of many Qt only apps we use actually | 21:30 |
| Riddell | 21:20 < atoom> QUESTION:what is mening of. zoom out in the upper right corner | 21:31 |
| Riddell | ah well, here we come into disagreement with upstream. it's a curious feature that which we removed in one release because it doesn't seem to do much useful | 21:31 |
| Riddell | but the plasma people moaned so we added it back, I'm still not convinced it does much | 21:32 |
| Riddell | hopefully it'll get integrated with the existing virtual desktops for a better experience | 21:32 |
| Riddell | 21:21 < rufong> QUESTION:has network management in kde come a long way in your opinion? i did see you mention it as an area to improve | 21:32 |
| Riddell | it's come a long way since we started kubuntu for sure, but it's still behind where it should be | 21:32 |
| daskreech | Riddell: It should be able to be mapped to Desktops in future I think | 21:32 |
| Riddell | the KDE developers working on the network manager tell me it's at a good stage now so I'll package that and hopefully get it into backports for people to use | 21:33 |
| === croppa_ is now known as croppa | ||
| Riddell | 21:25 < ceelight> QUESTION: dunno? Could you please also write for "non-native-speakers"? ;) | 21:33 |
| Riddell | sorry, "I don't know" :) | 21:34 |
| Riddell | 21:27 < drostie> QUESTION: It's all well and good for you to talk about how you think KDE 4 is the best desktop ever, but in what particular way do you think it shines over GNOME or XFCE? | 21:34 |
| Riddell | it's beautiful! | 21:35 |
| Riddell | in terms of shinyness, the artwork in KDE 4 is world class, thanks to the Oxygen team at KDE | 21:35 |
| Riddell | in terms of apps we have world leading ones like Digikam and K3b and Amarok | 21:35 |
| Riddell | watch out for Krita too, it's going to be a photoshop killer I just know | 21:36 |
| Riddell | 21:28 < Ireyon> QUESTION: does kubuntu have own translation teams or do they work together with the 'normal' ubuntu translators? | 21:36 |
| ralf__ | I think there is also one more thing: integration. IMHO KDE and KDE-progs are much more integrated | 21:36 |
| Riddell | we get our translations from KDE, they get fed into launchpad where the ubuntu translation teams can fill in bits added by Kubuntu | 21:36 |
| Riddell | 21:29 < francisco_t> QUESTION: What happend with konqueror, webkit and KHTML? | 21:37 |
| * nixternal notes that Krfb and KRDC also rock, especially for those of you who have to maintain Windows machines at work or remotely | 21:37 | |
| Riddell | currently we use Konqueror with KHTML | 21:37 |
| Riddell | webkit integration with Konqueror is harder than it should be so that hasn't happened as quick as we'd like | 21:37 |
| Riddell | so we'll evaluate the options out there at UDS and decide what's best for our users | 21:38 |
| Riddell | 21:30 < zaidka> QUESTION: if i install a gtk application on kubuntu, will the widgets look like normal qt? | 21:38 |
| Riddell | they'll use the qtcurve theme, which integrates pretty well with the KDE oxygen theme | 21:38 |
| Riddell | phew, I think I'm up to date on all the questions | 21:39 |
| drostie | :D | 21:39 |
| Riddell | keep asking in -chat, I'll get to more at the end | 21:39 |
| Riddell | The most important part of Kubuntu is the community, because it's people like them that make free software fun | 21:39 |
| Riddell | We mostly work over IRC in the #kubuntu-devel channel. IRC lets us work with high communication rates from wherever we happen to be, it's almost good as being in a room together, but you don't have to get out of bed :) | 21:40 |
| nixternal | hahaha | 21:40 |
| Riddell | Although it's called -devel we count any contribution as devels. Helping the community, doing translations, triaging bugs, packaging of course, testing CDs, anything useful | 21:40 |
| Riddell | Let's look at some of the community members to get an idea of what people can do when they want to difference in the world | 21:40 |
| Riddell | apachelogger (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/16775366/moi.jpeg) | 21:41 |
| Riddell | Not so long ago I did all the KDE packaging myself. But for one KDE release I was away for a week, so apachelogger took over | 21:41 |
| Riddell | He realised it was far too much work for one person to do so for the next release he used his good looks and charm to round up a team of people to package KDE and now we do it as a team effort every time | 21:41 |
| Riddell | The team is called the Kubuntu Ninjas and we spend a week locked in a bunker before every KDE release packaging it for the development version and the released version to make sure it's available as soon as possible to our users | 21:41 |
| Riddell | or there's JonTheEchidna (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/15880502/me-cropped-0707.png) | 21:42 |
| Riddell | Jon is one of our best looking developers and does a lot of bug triage. Actually he does a lot of other stuff for Kubuntu too but he's now associated with over 5000 bugs, which is a lot of traging. | 21:42 |
| Riddell | We get a lot of bugs reports and there's a lot of different possibilities that can happen with them, only a few small number will we need to fix directly | 21:42 |
| Riddell | Others get fixed upstream or maybe they're already fixed or maybe the program is indended to work as it does and the user is misunderstanding it (which is a bug too of course) | 21:42 |
| Riddell | Sorting out the hundreds of bugs we get each week is what folks like JonTheEchidna do and we all owe them for that | 21:43 |
| === SWAT__ is now known as SWAT | ||
| Riddell | one of my favoutest people is Mamarok (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/14888760/me_mugshot_launchpad_2.png) | 21:43 |
| Riddell | User support is massively important, it's one of free software's advantages over the proprietry competition | 21:43 |
| Riddell | Myriam recently took over as an admin of the kubuntu-users mailing list to make sure conversation is kept on topic and a welcoming and friendly atmosphere is encouraged | 21:43 |
| Riddell | She's also on the Ubuntu Forums Beginners group who help out new users on our forums | 21:44 |
| Riddell | User support is something we all should do to be good community citizens. You don't have to be as good looking as Myriam to do your bit | 21:44 |
| Riddell | finally in my sample of Kubuntu devels I picked ScottK (Scott doesn't have a photo on launchpad but I can assure you he's as good looking as any Kubuntu dev) | 21:44 |
| Riddell | amongst other things Scott is an archive admin. That means he has a big red button on his computer which he can press to approve or reject new packages which get uploaded (the main reason for rejection is licence quibbles) | 21:44 |
| Riddell | He also does a lot of work approving backports and is currently moving KDE 4.2.2 to backports (yay) | 21:45 |
| Riddell | When the archive is frozen, which we do shortly before releases to stop people uploading anything dangerous, he checks and approves any uploads | 21:45 |
| Riddell | Sometimes we have bugs in our releases (shocking I know!) and Scott is one of the guys who can review updates to make sure they fix and don't add more bugs | 21:45 |
| Riddell | All tasks with a lot of responsibility, if he pressed the red button at the wrong time everything could break! | 21:45 |
| sirdiego | puh, i cant do some work for kde, i dont look as good as they ;) | 21:45 |
| Riddell | That's just a small random sample of the sort of people involved in Kubuntu | 21:45 |
| Riddell | They're not realated by age or gender or location but rather by a desire to help change the world in interesting ways | 21:46 |
| Riddell | The good news is you can join them, if you're interested in Kubuntu come and say hi in #kubuntu-devel | 21:46 |
| Riddell | You don't have to be good looking, by being part of the Kubuntu community you automatically become good looking. You just need a desire to free the world! | 21:46 |
| Riddell | 21:39 < Sanne> QUESTION: in case you decide against Konqueror as a browser in the future, will it still be available as a file manager for people who prefer it to Dolphin? | 21:47 |
| Riddell | if we do go with a different browser, and I stress that's not even remotely decided, we'd keep Konqueror on the CD, it's part of what is KDE | 21:48 |
| Riddell | 21:40 < eagles0513875> QUESTION what is being done in regards to dolphin being super slow in accessing remote shares using smbfs | 21:48 |
| Riddell | I think the whole file sharing experience is poor, it's something I've been wanting to look at for some time, maybe one day I'll have time for it :) | 21:48 |
| Riddell | 21:47 < drostie> QUESTION: are you using Quassel right now? Was there a range of options among which Quassel was chosen for Jaunty, or was it just the only native KDE4 IRC client around? (Everybody I've spoken to finds it rather unintuitive for the first week.) | 21:49 |
| Riddell | actually I use irssi, I like my command line :) | 21:50 |
| eagles0513875 | Riddell: i have been using konqueror as an alternative to dolphin. another thing about konqueror is that i like the ability to open up websites as well as locations on the same machien all in one place | 21:50 |
| Riddell | but I use Quassel too at times and it's much better now than it was six months ago when we first looked at it | 21:50 |
| Riddell | that's because Kubuntu people like seele and others worked with the Quassel developers to end up with something quite good | 21:50 |
| Riddell | but plenty more work to be done, the Quassel developers are very responsive though so you can try pinging them in #kubuntu-devel (or probably they have their own channel too) | 21:51 |
| maco | Riddell: #quassel | 21:51 |
| Riddell | oh and Kubuntu developers love hot tub parties, you don't get that with any other project :) | 21:52 |
| * nixternal can attest to that, thankfully he hid from the pool area during UDS | 21:53 | |
| Riddell | 21:53 < T0m4rn0ld> QUESTION: Which Kubuntu release will surpass Ubuntu with regards to polish and stability? ;) | 21:54 |
| * NCommander can attest to the hot tube bit as well :-) | 21:54 | |
| Riddell | well that's subjective and could lead to flamebate if I don't answer carefully | 21:54 |
| knome | (yes, if there's beer!) | 21:54 |
| nixternal | Riddell: rumor has it, the intertubes say the release of Kubuntu with KDE 4.5 (that is your safe way out of that one) :) | 21:55 |
| Riddell | KDE is the fastest moving desktop out there. thanks to the Qt and KDE 4 platform we can do stuff that can't be done on other platforms and we can do it earier (for developers) | 21:55 |
| ralf__ | I'd be glad if it would be the same polish as Ubuntu | 21:55 |
| Riddell | which should result in better apps and a better experience | 21:55 |
| Riddell | as I say 10.04 (odds on to be the LTS) will be a work of perfection | 21:56 |
| Riddell | 21:56 < daskreech> QUESTION: Is there a way to highlight artistic contributions to Kubuntu? | 21:56 |
| Riddell | almost all our artwork comes from KDE, those Oxygen guys are just so good | 21:57 |
| Riddell | if you ever get to meet pinheiro, buy him lots of beers | 21:57 |
| Riddell | well I think my time is up | 21:57 |
| dolf1074 | sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop fails :( | 21:58 |
| drostie | thanks, Riddell! :D | 21:58 |
| Riddell | if you want to help we're in #kubuntu-devel, if you need help we're in #kubuntu | 21:58 |
| * Ireyon hugs riddell | 21:58 | |
| hollman | Riddell, thanks!!!! | 21:58 |
| maco | dolf1074: #kubuntu please | 21:58 |
| sirdiego | thank you Riddell, good work (= | 21:58 |
| Riddell | thanks for coming and enjoy the rest of Open Week | 21:58 |
| * nixternal hugs Riddell | 21:58 | |
| * JFo applauds | 21:58 | |
| * eagles0513875 hugs and starts dancing with Riddell | 21:58 | |
| ceelight | Thanks! | 21:58 |
| * BugeyeD goes to shower after the hot tub incident | 21:59 | |
| cody-somerville | w00t | 21:59 |
| === maco changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 2000 UTC: Introduction to Server Team || Intro to Xubuntu || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| Riddell | Intro to Xubuntu coming up shortly, presumably with your friend and mine, cody-somerville | 22:00 |
| cody-somerville | Thanks Riddell. | 22:00 |
| knome | (and no talking about hot tubs) | 22:00 |
| cody-somerville | :) | 22:00 |
| cody-somerville | Welcome everyone to the session we've titled "Intro to Xubuntu". | 22:00 |
| knome | Feel free to ask any questions at any time on #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 22:00 |
| * JPohlmann says hello | 22:01 | |
| cody-somerville | I'm here today with some very special people from the Xubuntu team to talk to you about the Xubuntu project. | 22:01 |
| cody-somerville | I'm going to chat a little bit and then I'm going to hand it off to the other folks with me so they have a chance to speak to you about the part of the Xubuntu project they're most passionate about. | 22:02 |
| cody-somerville | We just released Xubuntu 9.04 last week which I'm happy to say is definitely our best release yet. | 22:03 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu 9.04 includes the latest major release of the Xfce desktop environment 4.6 | 22:03 |
| cody-somerville | Lots of great improvements in 4.6 thanks to the hard work of the Xfce development team | 22:04 |
| cody-somerville | If you're interesting in taking a tour of some of these great new features, I encourage you to drop by http://www.xfce.org/about/tour | 22:05 |
| cody-somerville | Other notable improvements with 9.04 include: samba browsing, support for access remote network shares, a new user session switcher applet, and some really fantastic artwork. | 22:06 |
| GaBo | .info | 22:06 |
| cody-somerville | You can read more about the Xubuntu 9.04 release at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/JauntyJackalope/Final | 22:06 |
| cody-somerville | So, what do we have on the go for Karmic? | 22:06 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu has been getting a lot of attention with the netbook folks. | 22:07 |
| cody-somerville | We want to continue to make Xubuntu a great operating system to run on your netbooks so we're going to get serious about examining what makes up Xubuntu. We're going to try and skim away some of those excess libs, we're going to re-evaluate the stack of applications we offer on the desktop such as the image viewer, and we're going to be looking at processes running by default. | 22:08 |
| cody-somerville | We're also going to be working with upstream developers to improve the login experience by making it zippier and quicker than ever. | 22:09 |
| sirdiego | <3 | 22:10 |
| cody-somerville | Another area we're going to focus on in improving offline documentation - improving not only content but also localization | 22:11 |
| charlie-tca | <SiDi> QUESTION: What about Xfce's session opening ? it's quite slow at the moment | 22:11 |
| cody-somerville | This is a known issue. There appears to be a regression which we hope resolve shortly. | 22:11 |
| cody-somerville | Finally, For Karmic, I believe we should continue to be the best looking flavour of Ubuntu ;]. We'll be updating our usplash theme, tweaking our icon theme, and possibly using a new custom gtk theme which is in the works. | 22:12 |
| MadGab | great :D! | 22:13 |
| cody-somerville | I encourage everyone to get involved and help make this all possible. | 22:13 |
| cody-somerville | UDS is coming up very quickly and I look forward to seeing you there or working with you remotely. | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu is a great project to get involved in. | 22:14 |
| daskreech | cody-somerville: usplash still exists for Koala? | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | daskreech, Thats yet to be decided. | 22:14 |
| charlie-tca | <sirdiego> QUESTION: I used xubuntu a long time ago, is gdm still the one? are there plans to change to, maybe slim, in xubuntu? | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | sirdiego, There may be some changes in karmic. Unfortunately, I don't have much details on this yet. | 22:15 |
| sirdiego | i think for xubuntu it'll be nice to have a fast dm | 22:16 |
| cody-somerville | I agree :) | 22:16 |
| JPohlmann | Being fast is not everything. Slim lacks important usability features and AFAIR it can only be controlled via keyboard shortcuts. gdm is much better at that. | 22:17 |
| cody-somerville | <T0m4rn0ld> QUESTION: Did you read todays Distrowatch Weekly? Any comments? | 22:18 |
| cody-somerville | I have briefly read the article. | 22:18 |
| cody-somerville | Debian Xfce definitely has been able to develop a very light weight desktop | 22:19 |
| === JManGt_ is now known as JManGt | ||
| cody-somerville | However, I feel Xubuntu offers a desktop that enables a wider audience of users to be productive | 22:21 |
| cody-somerville | The other thing to keep in mind is that Xubuntu 9.04 comes with a much newer kernel and includes numerous booting speed improvements, while Debian does not. | 22:22 |
| cody-somerville | As I said, we'll be looking to improve in the area of performance and memory usage for Jaunty | 22:23 |
| knome | for Karmic. | 22:23 |
| cody-somerville | Right, thanks knome :) | 22:23 |
| daskreech | +1 | 22:23 |
| cody-somerville | Anyhow, I'd now like to pass the floor to knome | 22:24 |
| knome | ok, so let's get forward | 22:24 |
| cody-somerville | knome is going to chat with us about how we can help share Xubuntu with others and get involved in marketing and artwork and all that good stuff | 22:24 |
| knome | in they jaunty and partly in intrepid cycle already, we have given xubuntu and it's branding a huge facelift. | 22:25 |
| knome | just by looking http://xubuntu.org/ you can totally say it's not something antiqueish. | 22:26 |
| cody-somerville | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/JauntyJackalope/Final?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=main-screenshot.png <-- screenshot of desktop | 22:26 |
| cody-somerville | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/JauntyJackalope/Final?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=jaunty-gdm.png <-- screenshot of gdm login screen | 22:26 |
| knome | and the looks, branding, and how we shout out things to people *matter* a lot on how to get people using or trying xubuntu | 22:26 |
| knome | on the links cody-somerville pasted you can see the artwork for xubuntu jaunty | 22:27 |
| knome | that artwork has gotten very much positive feedback and i'm really glad about it | 22:27 |
| knome | however, we do need more people. | 22:27 |
| knome | we ran out of time pushing a new gtk theme and a new usplash theme into jaunty. | 22:28 |
| knome | what we need is people telling about xubuntu for other people | 22:28 |
| knome | and to tell our developer community what the users really want | 22:29 |
| charlie-tca | <daskreech> QUESTION: Xubuntu seems likea good base for Schools have you looked at working with the Edubuntu project? | 22:29 |
| knome | cody-somerville, ^ ? | 22:29 |
| cody-somerville | daskreech, We have indeed. I imagine once Edubuntu gets on its feet again, we'll continue discussions with them. | 22:29 |
| cody-somerville | I'm also happy to report that Xubuntu is indeed already used in a number of schools around the globe. | 22:30 |
| knome | So, back to marketing. | 22:30 |
| knome | What do we have in mind for Karmic? | 22:30 |
| knome | first of all, we are determined to be the best looking *buntu again. | 22:31 |
| knome | that means we will refresh and rethink our artwork completely | 22:31 |
| knome | new gtk theme, new gdm theme, new wallpaper, new usplash, maybe a new icon set, ... whatever you can imagine | 22:32 |
| knome | and we need people for that | 22:32 |
| knome | to get that work done, i need help. :) | 22:32 |
| knome | just join #xubuntu-devel and ask about marketing. | 22:33 |
| knome | there is *lots* of low hanging fruit in the marketing team | 22:33 |
| knome | there is *lots* of things you can do and it only takes at most an hour of your week | 22:33 |
| knome | and what's most important | 22:33 |
| knome | there is *lots* of people who haven't heard of xubuntu or the amazing lightness and features of xfce | 22:34 |
| knome | or who think it's only for old computers or sucky monitors. | 22:34 |
| knome | it's not. it's for everybody. | 22:34 |
| knome | if you'd like to hear more from xubuntu marketing and artwork, join our session on thursday where i speak about artwork quality assurance as well OR join our irc channel #xubuntu-devel which is always warm and welcoming. | 22:35 |
| knome | i'll pass it to JPohlmann now, thanks for listening. | 22:35 |
| JPohlmann | Hey everybody | 22:36 |
| basajaun | hi | 22:36 |
| JPohlmann | I'm one of the Xfce developers and I'll be talking a bit about the 4.6 release which is part of Jaunty but I'll also discuss some of its problems and what we're planning to do in 4.8. | 22:36 |
| charlie-tca | basajaun: #ubuntu-classroom-chat for questions and comments | 22:36 |
| JPohlmann | So, we released 4.6 at the end of February after almost two years of development. | 22:37 |
| JPohlmann | That's a pretty long release cycle and as you might guess, 4.6 brings a lot of new features and revamped components. | 22:37 |
| JPohlmann | I don't know how many of you are familiar with earlier releases of Xfce but these are probably the most important changes in 4.6: | 22:38 |
| JPohlmann | First of all, 4.6 introduces a new configuration system called xfconf. It sounds similar to gconf and indeed it is, it's just a lot simpler in its design. | 22:38 |
| JPohlmann | I won't bore you with the details here (D-Bus etc.) | 22:39 |
| JPohlmann | However, changing the config system had a lot of implications for the rest of Xfce. | 22:39 |
| JPohlmann | We have improved most of our settings dialogs. | 22:39 |
| JPohlmann | They follow the same design guidelines now and some have been simplified a lot. | 22:40 |
| JPohlmann | For instance we've removed confusing things such as keyboard shortcut themes. | 22:40 |
| JPohlmann | But not just the settings dialogs have been improved. A lot of our applications now look much cleaner and are more usable. | 22:41 |
| JPohlmann | These are the appfinder, the mixer, the panel for instance. | 22:41 |
| JPohlmann | We also improved the standards compliance in 4.6 with libxfce4menu which is an implementation of the XDG menu specification. | 22:42 |
| JPohlmann | And, last but not least, session management has been improved a lot. | 22:42 |
| JPohlmann | For instance, you'll hardly lose your panels nowadays. | 22:42 |
| JPohlmann | They'll be restarted by the session maanger on crashes. | 22:42 |
| JPohlmann | 4.6 also has a few problems though, which most of you will directly notice. | 22:43 |
| JPohlmann | First of all, we had this long release cycle which means that you all had to wait for improvements for quite a while. | 22:43 |
| JPohlmann | QUESTION: Is XFCE a good forum for someone to learn/relearn C/C++? Does XFCE need more devs? | 22:44 |
| JPohlmann | We're only six active core developers at Xfce, so we definitely need more hackers! | 22:44 |
| JPohlmann | Xfce is entirely written in C, so if you want to learn C and GUI programming with GTK+, it's definitely a good chance to get started. | 22:44 |
| JPohlmann | Ok, more problems of 4.6: menu editing support is missing. We have a few very young components such as libxfce4menu and xfce4-settings. | 22:45 |
| JPohlmann | And no samba shares for instance. | 22:45 |
| JPohlmann | (Xubuntu has that though ;)) | 22:45 |
| JPohlmann | So in 4.8 we'll try to fix those things. | 22:45 |
| basajaun | and no usb support | 22:45 |
| JPohlmann | What exactly do you mean? | 22:46 |
| JPohlmann | We'll hopefully be able to release 4.8 within one year. | 22:46 |
| * cody-somerville hopes for six months. :P | 22:46 | |
| JPohlmann | We also have a number of nice features in the pipes: | 22:46 |
| JPohlmann | I'm currently working on migrating Thunar, our file manager, to GIO/GVfs which means it'll have native (optional) support for handling Samba, SFTP, FTP etc. in the future. | 22:47 |
| basajaun | up to now any ntfs usb stick or drive was automatically mounted not so now | 22:47 |
| cody-somerville | <tmurase> QUESTION: Is the xfce project considering moving to a time-based release model (e.g. ubuntu)? | 22:47 |
| charlie-tca | <tmurase> QUESTION: Is the xfce project considering moving to a time-based release model (e.g. ubuntu)? | 22:47 |
| JayFo | jinx | 22:47 |
| JPohlmann | We'd like to but we suck pretty bad at being predictable ;) | 22:47 |
| JPohlmann | We'll try our best. | 22:48 |
| basajaun | lool | 22:48 |
| JPohlmann | Ok, more for 4.8: libxfce4menu will have menu editing support. I'm cooperating with one of the Alacarte authors on that one. | 22:48 |
| JPohlmann | The panel is being rewritten at the moment and will feature nice (and long missing) features like creating launchers via drag and drop. | 22:49 |
| JPohlmann | That's just a few things though. We're currently slowing down a bit because we're moving our development from SVN to Git and stuff like that. | 22:50 |
| JPohlmann | As soon as that's sorted out there will probably be more features that we're going to work on. | 22:50 |
| cody-somerville | w00t | 22:51 |
| cody-somerville | Thanks JPohlmann :) | 22:51 |
| cody-somerville | 4.8 sounds like its going to be a blast | 22:51 |
| JPohlmann | I'll let charlie-tca handle Q&A from here ;) | 22:51 |
| JPohlmann | Stay tuned for new features via blog.xfce.org! | 22:51 |
| cody-somerville | We're going to wrap up now with some final Q&A. | 22:52 |
| NCommander | Hey all | 22:52 |
| cody-somerville | oh! | 22:52 |
| cody-somerville | Lucky us | 22:52 |
| cody-somerville | NCommander is going to share with us some news and info about Xubuntu Ports | 22:52 |
| NCommander | as well as information on Debian-Xubuntu collaboration :-) | 22:52 |
| cody-somerville | Ever wondered about running Xubuntu on your playstation 3? | 22:52 |
| cody-somerville | NCommander is going to answer those questions | 22:53 |
| cody-somerville | :) | 22:53 |
| NCommander | Thank you cody-somerville | 22:53 |
| === kklimonda_ is now known as kklimonda | ||
| NCommander | New with 9.04 is the ability to directly run Xubuntu on your PowerMac/PowerBook, or PowerPC based iBook, as well as some IBM PowerPC desktops | 22:53 |
| NCommander | This also includes the Sony PlayStation 3, a platform that Xubuntu is well suited for with its lower memory requirements, and lower processor requirements | 22:54 |
| NCommander | For normal PowerPC based Desktops, normal LIveCDs and alternate CDs are available, as is an installation manual. Once installed, Xubuntu/powerpc is pretty much the same as Xubuntu/i386 or Xubuntu/amd64 | 22:55 |
| NCommander | For the PlayStation 3, alternate CDs are available, which, once installed provides the same Xubuntu experience across all architectures. | 22:55 |
| NCommander | For general PowerPC port discussion, I recommend visiting #ubuntu-powerpc, and for PS3 discussion, visiting #ubuntu-ps3 | 22:55 |
| NCommander | Which brings us to our final topic, collaboration between Debian and Xubuntu | 22:56 |
| NCommander | We enjoy a good working relationship with the Debian pkg-xfce group, with several of the Xubuntu Developers holding commit rights to pkg-xfce, and we pull from their SVN branches | 22:57 |
| charlie-tca | 2 minute warning | 22:57 |
| NCommander | As well as merge many of our bug fixing patches into their uploads; the upshot is that both Debian-Xfce and Xubuntu benefit by having more eyes review our work, and reducing our deltas from Debian (with the added bonus that many Xfce packages can simply be synced) | 22:57 |
| NCommander | This collaboration allowed pkg-xfce to test their 4.6 packages in a production environment (since Xubuntu based off their SVN repo for 4.6), and helped both distributions improve greatly | 22:59 |
| NCommander | Any questions? | 22:59 |
| charlie-tca | Where do I download xubuntu for the ps3? | 22:59 |
| NCommander | AH, good question | 22:59 |
| NCommander | Its available on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ports/ (which is running slow at the moment) | 23:00 |
| knome | We'll continue with the Q&A part in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and #xubuntu and #xubuntu-devel, if you still have something to ask. | 23:00 |
| charlie-tca | A big thanks to cody-somerville, knome, JPohlmann, NCommander for a great presentation! | 23:00 |
| jcastro | thanks everyone! | 23:00 |
| knome | thanks jcastro! :) | 23:00 |
| thegrieve | thanks all | 23:00 |
| NCommander | Torrents also available here: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ | 23:00 |
| NCommander | :P-) | 23:00 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 1800 UTC: Introduction to the Server Team || Intro to Ubuntu Brainstorm || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| NCommander | *:-) | 23:00 |
| basajaun | thanks | 23:00 |
| jcastro | mathiaz: take it away! | 23:00 |
| mathiaz | jcastro: thanks | 23:01 |
| sirdiego1 | thanks, guys (= | 23:01 |
| mathiaz | after NCommander introduction to Xubuntu, I'll make another presentation about the Ubuntu Server Team | 23:01 |
| mathiaz | I'll go through who are the members of the Ubuntu Server team, what are interests. | 23:02 |
| mathiaz | Then I'll outlines the different hats one can wear in the Ubuntu Server Team | 23:02 |
| mathiaz | and I'll finish by giving practical tips on getting started in the Ubuntu Server Team | 23:03 |
| basajaun | bye thanks | 23:03 |
| mathiaz | So Who are we ? | 23:03 |
| mathiaz | We are a group of people that have an interest in server related software. | 23:03 |
| mathiaz | As an extension we tend also to deal with setups found in corporate environments, such as directory services (ldap, AD) web services, or network authentication. | 23:03 |
| mathiaz | Some of us are working for Canonical in the Server team, lead by Rick Clark (dendrobates on IRC). | 23:04 |
| mathiaz | Others have services and businesses running on Ubuntu and are interested in fixing bugs. | 23:04 |
| mathiaz | Regular contributors takes on important tasks and lead them to completion. | 23:04 |
| mathiaz | Here is a short (and incomplete) list of the features that have been developed during the last release cycle: | 23:04 |
| mathiaz | Dustin Kirkland (kirkland) added the possibility to create encrypted home directories. The implementation is based on the ecryptfs project. Dustin is also one of the leader in the upstream project. | 23:05 |
| mathiaz | For Karmic he is looking into adding this feature as an option to all users installing Ubuntu as well as a migration mechanism for saying "I didn't encrypt my home at install, but i would like to do so now!". | 23:05 |
| mathiaz | Help in designing, coding and testing this feature is welcome. Interested? Contact Dustin Kirkland. | 23:06 |
| * kirkland waves o/ | 23:06 | |
| mathiaz | Soren Hansen (soren) and Thierry Carrez (ttx) integrated Eucalyptus helping Ubuntu users to build their own EC2-like cloud. | 23:06 |
| mathiaz | In the domain of cloud computing official Ubuntu Server machines are available from Amazon EC2 thanks to the work of Chuck Short (zul). | 23:07 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 2000 UTC: Introduction to the Server Team || Intro to Ubuntu Brainstorm || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| mathiaz | Ante Karamatić (ivoks) lead an effort to improve the mail server stack in Ubuntu: postfix and dovecot are now better integrated through the dovecot-postfix package providing seamless SASL authentication. | 23:08 |
| mathiaz | If you're interested in helping out implementing this feature get in touch with Ante! | 23:08 |
| === cprofitt is now known as cprofitt_monitor | ||
| mathiaz | Adam Sommer (sommer) is our documentation guru. He reviewed and updated the Server Guide. | 23:09 |
| mathiaz | The virtualization section has been revamped to closely follow what has been done in the virtulization stack while the section about network authentication has been augmented to cover kerberos and its integration with openldap. | 23:09 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Next Session: 2200 UTC: Introduction to the Server Team || Intro to Ubuntu Brainstorm || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jcastro | (sorry, I can't tell time) | 23:09 |
| mathiaz | So you can see that we are a diverse group that have different interests. We're also involved in other teams from the Ubuntu project. | 23:10 |
| mathiaz | This is one of the characteristics of the Server Team: we all share a common interest in server technologies, but have different skills. | 23:10 |
| mathiaz | Being part of the team often means representing the Server Team in other areas of the Ubuntu project and the Free Sofware ecosystem in general. | 23:10 |
| mathiaz | Being a contributor to the server team can be taken under different roles: | 23:11 |
| mathiaz | The helpers answers questions on the ubuntu-server mailing list, the #ubuntu-server irc channel and the server forums. | 23:11 |
| mathiaz | Triagers dig into bugs the ubuntu-server LP team is subscribed to. | 23:12 |
| mathiaz | Our LP team is a bug contact for a list packages, such as samba, openldap, mysql or apache2. | 23:12 |
| mathiaz | The current list of packages can be found in Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs) and is growing every release. | 23:13 |
| mathiaz | A mailing list gathers all the bugs related to the ubuntu-server team: ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com. To get started in triaging signup here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server-bugs | 23:13 |
| mathiaz | This is a great way to start with the LP bug tracker and doesn't require any knowledge of programming languages. | 23:13 |
| mathiaz | We're working closely with the BugSquad team - triagers participate on the bugsquad mailing list https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/ | 23:14 |
| mathiaz | And once in a while with have the honor of having our own HugDay where the whole bug triaging community helps us. | 23:14 |
| mathiaz | Once bugs have been triaged, it's time to fix them. This is when the packagers come into the game. | 23:14 |
| mathiaz | This role requires an interest in packaging. | 23:15 |
| mathiaz | We maintain a list of bugs that are easy to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+mentoring | 23:15 |
| mathiaz | Fixes can make their way into the ubuntu repositories via the sponsorship process as described in the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess | 23:15 |
| mathiaz | Doing work on the packaging front leads to a close a collaboration with the MOTU team and is a great way to gain experience to become a MOTU - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | 23:16 |
| mathiaz | Testing is another way to take part of the Server Team activity. This role doesn't require a lot of deep technical knowledge. | 23:16 |
| mathiaz | We work with the Ubuntu QA team - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam. | 23:17 |
| mathiaz | Testers are taking a more and more important role the more we advance in the release cycle: | 23:17 |
| mathiaz | We're responsible for ensuring that the ubuntu-server isos are working correctly, which involves performing a dozen of tests for two isos. | 23:17 |
| mathiaz | The list of tests can be found in the wiki: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ | 23:17 |
| mathiaz | Results are tracked via the Iso testing tracker located at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/. | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | Server hardware support is another area where testing is welcome. | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | We're trying to make sure that ubuntu can be used on the main server hardware, so if you have access to such hardware, popping a cd into the machine, installing a standard ubuntu server and reporting whether it has successfully installed or failed is an easy way to contribute to the server team. | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | This work is coordinated in the ServerTesting Team wiki pages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | rowsing the ubuntu-server mailing list archive, lurking in the #ubuntu-server irc channel or going through the forum posts shows patterns in user's questions. | 23:19 |
| mathiaz | Recurring themes are identified and turned into documentation. A wiki page in the community section of help.ubuntu.com is first created. Once the quality has improved, a new section is added to the server guide. | 23:20 |
| mathiaz | All this work is undertaken by the Documentors of the Server Team. | 23:20 |
| mathiaz | Collaboration with the Documentation team is done on a daily basis to achieve consistency with other help resources. | 23:21 |
| mathiaz | More information about the Documentation team can be found on their website located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | 23:21 |
| mathiaz | Adam Sommer (sommer) leads the update and review of the Ubuntu Server guide. The source document is maintained in a bzr tree. Helping Adam will introduce you to docbook and distributed versioning with bazaar. | 23:21 |
| mathiaz | Getting started involves following 3 steps outlined in the Server Team Knowledge base: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Ubuntu%20Server%20Guide | 23:22 |
| === JManGt_ is now known as JManGt | ||
| mathiaz | There is also the option to go over server related wiki pages on the community help pages. A good starting point is the Server page that has links to lots of other howtos. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Servers | 23:22 |
| mathiaz | Another hat you can wear in the Server Team is the Developer one. | 23:23 |
| mathiaz | They develop new features usually specified during the Ubuntu Developer Summit that takes place at the beginning of each release cycle. Tracked by a blueprint we have around 3 months to get a new feature into Ubuntu. | 23:23 |
| mathiaz | As we are at the beginning of a release cycle most members of the Server Team are thinking about new features that could be implemented for Karmic. These ideas should be added to the Server Team IdeaPool page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool. | 23:24 |
| mathiaz | Anyone is welcome to give input on existing ideas and help out refining them. | 23:24 |
| mathiaz | As you can see, contributing to the Server Team can be undertaken in more than one way. It usually involves a lot of interaction with other teams from the Ubuntu project. | 23:25 |
| mathiaz | It's also a good way to show your contribution to Ubuntu and helps getting Ubuntu membership. | 23:25 |
| mathiaz | The GettingInvolved page gives an overview of the roles I've talked about above: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved | 23:26 |
| mathiaz | So how do we work ? | 23:26 |
| mathiaz | We track our progress on the Roadmap and meet once a week to discuss outstanding issues. | 23:26 |
| mathiaz | Our current work can be tracked on the Roadmap wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap | 23:27 |
| mathiaz | We use the ubuntu-server mailing to coordinate our activities, discuss policy change in the team as well as helping out users. | 23:27 |
| mathiaz | You can subscribe to the mailing list here: Join our mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server. | 23:28 |
| mathiaz | There is also an Ubuntu Server blog maintained by some members of the Server Team. Minutes of the meeting as well as other topics related to the Ubuntu Server Team activities are regularly posted there: http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/ | 23:29 |
| mathiaz | How to join the Server Team and start contributing ? | 23:30 |
| mathiaz | Joining the ubuntu-server team on LP is as simple as subscribing to the ubuntu-server mailing list and applying for membership on LP https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/ | 23:31 |
| mathiaz | If you already know which role you'd like to contribute as, you can find a list of tasks in the Roadmap. Don't hesitate to ask one of the team members involved in your area of interest. | 23:32 |
| mathiaz | Most of the information related to the ServerTeam can be found in the ServerTeam wiki pages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam. | 23:32 |
| jcastro | mathiaz: you might want to open it up for questions soon, people are getting antsy. :) | 23:33 |
| mathiaz | If you're overwhelmed by all the available information and you're lost, come talk to me. You can find me in #ubuntu-server amongst other channels. I'll help get out of the mist and we'll find a way you can get involved in the Server Team. | 23:33 |
| mathiaz | Allright - I'm going to answer the questions from -chat. | 23:34 |
| mathiaz | I'm sorry that I haven't specified this at the begining of my session. | 23:34 |
| mathiaz | 18:12 < somnoliento> QUESTION: Jono asked a while back about a possible tighter integration between client and server. Is this a current area of interest/development? | 23:35 |
| mathiaz | somnoliento: yes. We're looking at ways to get better integration. | 23:35 |
| mathiaz | It depends on the applications considered and especially the environment in which the Ubuntu infrastructure will be deployed. | 23:36 |
| mathiaz | Some things such as Single Sign On support is looked at: so that you can use your evolution mail client and connect to the mail server without having to enter a username and password for your IMAP accounts or for sending email. | 23:37 |
| mathiaz | Another example would be for intranets where a user using firefox would authenticate automatically to internal web servers. | 23:38 |
| mathiaz | 18:13 < pwnguin> QUESTION: Does the server team have a preferred tool for backing up servers and desktops? | 23:39 |
| mathiaz | pwnguin: one of the official package (ie in main) for backup is bacula | 23:39 |
| mathiaz | pwnguin: backuppc is also in main and can be used for backups. | 23:40 |
| mathiaz | pwnguin: however bacula support tapes and robotic libraries which are often used in corporate environements. | 23:40 |
| mathiaz | 18:14 < RoAkSoAx> QUESTION: What about packages like Heartbeat, Keepalived, ipvsadm, ldirectord, etc, why is server team not suscribed to them? | 23:41 |
| mathiaz | RoAkSoAx: we aren't subscribed to every possible package. We tend to add them whenever we come across them. | 23:42 |
| hal14450 | cprofitt, at least i can time shift irc easily enough ;-) | 23:42 |
| mathiaz | There are thousands of packages in the archive - we haven't conducted an exhaustive review of which packages should be server related. | 23:43 |
| RoAkSoAx | mathiaz, But, for example, i do think those packages are importante since companies tend to use, or at least are trying to handle clusters, so those packages should be important for the server team. | 23:44 |
| mathiaz | We should also be careful about adding too many packages - doing so would increase the number of bug mails, which usually means that people tend to ignore them | 23:44 |
| mathiaz | RoAkSoAx: agreed. | 23:45 |
| RoAkSoAx | mathiaz, i do think they are important.. and i do offer myself to implement howtos for the server guide on most of them :) | 23:45 |
| mathiaz | The specific packages you gave are more oriented towards high-availibilty. May a team could be created to gather people interested in that specific area | 23:45 |
| mathiaz | RoAkSoAx: awesome! thanks for the offer. | 23:46 |
| saketh | when is the next session in pacific time? | 23:46 |
| mathiaz | RoAkSoAx: you should get in touch with sommer - I'm sure he'll gladly accept more sections to the server guide | 23:47 |
| RoAkSoAx | mathiaz, that's an awesome Idea! you guys should discuss that in the next UDS (since i'm not attending) and I offer myself to colaborate in High availability related stuff | 23:47 |
| mathiaz | 18:15 < somnoliento> QUESTION: Could you explain Eucalyptus in about ten words? (none of them being EC2?) in other words, who could do what with it? | 23:49 |
| mathiaz | an open-source software infrastructure for implementing "cloud computing" on clusters | 23:49 |
| mathiaz | Based on virtualization technology (such as kvm) it supports starting, stoping guests on a multiple machines. | 23:50 |
| mathiaz | 18:50 < pwnguin> QUESTION: how many nodes should I have before eucalyptus makes sense? | 23:51 |
| mathiaz | pwnguin: I don't have a specific number. | 23:52 |
| pwnguin | wags are acceptable :) | 23:52 |
| mathiaz | I think what matters is how many users would be serviced. | 23:52 |
| mathiaz | eucalyptus makes it simple to deploy and manage new guests on nodes. | 23:52 |
| mathiaz | whether you run one, five or hundreds of nodes isn't so important | 23:53 |
| mathiaz | (by node I refer to the physical systems that are running hypervisors) | 23:53 |
| mathiaz | If there are more questions ask them in ubuntu-classroom-chat and I'll try to answer them in the remaning minutes | 23:55 |
| jcastro | 5 minute warning! | 23:55 |
| mathiaz | 18:55 < pwnguin> QUESTION: what's the most important next step to take if someone wants to participate with the ubuntu server team? | 23:56 |
| mathiaz | The GettingInvolved page gives an overview of the roles I've talked about above: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved | 23:56 |
| mathiaz | If you already have an are of interests, start looking at bugs for the relevant packages. | 23:57 |
| mathiaz | Allright - if there aren't any questions anymore I'd like to thank you all for attending. | 23:58 |
| jcastro | thanks Mathias! | 23:58 |
| mathiaz | If you have any questions you can stop by #ubuntu-server or email me | 23:58 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Open Week || Session: 2300 UTC: Ubuntu Community Learning Project || Intro to Ubuntu Brainstorm || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek || All questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jcastro | cprofitt: we'll give everyone a 2 minute break, then you can begin! | 23:59 |
| * cprofitt nods | 23:59 | |
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