[04:42] <pace_t_zulu> can someone help me find the code responsible for changing screen resolution?
[07:09] <pitti> Good morning
[07:11] <pitti> bryce: can we even be sure that the bug is still the same with 2.6.30 and new libdrm?
[07:11] <pitti> bryce: when I wanted to test the freezes I get on the 945, these new packages change behaviour completely
[07:20] <asac> hi
[07:25] <pitti> hey asac
[08:30]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:30]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:30] <seb128> how are you today?
[08:33] <robert_ancell> seb128: pitti: do you guys have any ideas about bug 322714 and bug 328885.  There seems to be a lot of vague dpkg type bugs in avahi
[08:33] <pitti> seb128: pretty good, and you?
[08:33] <pitti> hey robert_ancell
[08:33] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[08:33] <robert_ancell> good morning guys
[08:33] <seb128> looking
[08:33] <seb128> pitti: pretty good thanks!
[08:35] <seb128> those seems bugs for mvo
[08:35] <seb128> robert_ancell: the first one seems a local corruption rather than a bug
[08:36] <robert_ancell> seb128: what is the best thing to do with them?  i.e. how should they be marked (I can't see anything avahi specific about them)
[08:36] <seb128> that's a very good question
[08:36] <seb128> I tend to close them or switch them to questions
[08:36] <seb128> which is not really "right" and mvo will not agree with me there
[08:37] <seb128> I tried to argue for getting an "upgrade issues" components
[08:37] <seb128> but other people didn't like the idea
[08:37] <robert_ancell> I want to assign them to "dkpg" or something
[08:37] <seb128> other people being mvo and pitti I think ;-)
[08:37] <seb128> yeah, you can do that too
[08:38] <robert_ancell> (but that feels like passing the buck.  A bit like assigning to the great black hole of compiz)
[08:38] <robert_ancell> so, do you close as "invalid"?
[08:38] <seb128> convert it to a question saying that's a local issue and not a software bug
[08:39] <seb128> that's what I do usually
[08:39] <seb128> or invalid
[08:39] <mvo> robert_ancell: I analyized a bunch of them
[08:39] <mvo> the one: 322714
[08:39] <seb128> question let the possibility that answer tracker guys will give advices to the guy on how to sort the issue
[08:39] <mvo> dpkg complains that its missing a final newline, so I usually ask for the file
[08:39] <mvo> and typically it contains either garbage or a bit flip error
[08:40] <robert_ancell> mvo: hey
[08:40]  * pitti wishes it was easier to see the actual problem in the plethora of logs
[08:40] <mvo> robert_ancell: hi
[08:40] <mvo> pitti: good point
[08:41] <pitti> robert_ancell: I'd set 322714 to incomplete, asking for an fs check and attaching the .list file in question (sounds like corrupted fs or full disk to me)
[08:41] <pitti> seb128: I still stand to this opinion
[08:41] <pitti> generating large amounts of bug spam and then directing it into a black hole where nobody looks doesn't help anyone
[08:41] <seb128> pitti: which one? not having an upgrade issues component?
[08:42] <seb128> pitti: because that one is clearly an avahi bug? *g*
[08:42] <pitti> either we make those reports better, or we stop collecting them
[08:42] <mvo> it should more be a package install/upgrade component
[08:42] <seb128> stop collection them
[08:42] <robert_ancell> ok, but when you get the .list file back what can we do with it?
[08:42] <seb128> I'm that near > < of adding a piece of code which close all of those on GNOME packages
[08:42] <pitti> robert_ancell: see if it's obviously broken/truncated
[08:43] <seb128> I've enough of getting 95% of useless bugs assigned on the wrong component
[08:43] <pitti> seb128: I think ignoring/not collecting them is a valid option
[08:43] <mvo> robert_ancell: it should contain just file names, it will probably contain a bunch of garbage in between. clear sign of either filesystem correuption, memory corruption or (heaven forbit) a bug in dpkg
[08:43] <robert_ancell> pitti: and if it is, all we can say is your system is corrupted, please delete and reinstall that package?
[08:43] <pitti> robert_ancell: I usually ask people to start the rescue system from grub and then start fsck
[08:43] <seb128> reinstalling the package will not solve the corruption issue
[08:43] <mvo> I think not collecting them is not a good option
[08:44] <pitti> mvo: we shouldn't ask people to file those reports if we are just going to ignore them
[08:44] <seb128> we already had this discussion, we will just never agree
[08:44] <pitti> it's raising false expectations and just leads to frustrations like "ubuntu bug reports are never looked at"
[08:44] <robert_ancell> I feel if I was sending in the report a link to a "fixes for dpkg issues" wiki page would make me happy
[08:44] <mvo> I don't want to ignore them either, I do check a lot of them and act.  half of them a bad. but the other half is not
[08:45] <seb128> what can we do to reduce this bad half to be less than that?
[08:45] <pitti> I'd like to see some more specific data collection from them, so that we can sanely auto-duplicate them
[08:45] <mvo> robert_ancell: there is a fsck and fix broken package option in friendly-recover (the menu in the rescue option in grub)
[08:45] <pitti> and then just look at the ones which have several dupes (the real ones)
[08:45] <seb128> pitti: it's hard to autoduplicate random corruption
[08:45] <pitti> seb128: right, those fall into the "ignore because of missing duplicates" part
[08:45] <seb128> robert_ancell has a good point, we should have a stock reply and wiki page about corruption
[08:45] <pitti> but if a package's postinst fails with exit status 99 for 50 people, that's something worth looking at
[08:46] <robert_ancell> mvo: I haven't been in grub for a while now it seems.  Is there a user-friendly wiki page about how to use it?
[08:46] <mvo> I'm fine with collecting them into a special category as long as we keep collecting them
[08:46] <mvo> robert_ancell: I don't iknow (I think its not)
[08:46] <seb128> pitti: when you know what status nn means, 90% of the time it's something crashing but you don't know what, though mvo probably fixed that one now
[08:46] <mvo> I mean, it sounds silly to me that we collect bugs that there are typos in the help widnow of synaptic, but we ignore errors that make package installation impossible at the users machine and say this is not a bug
[08:46] <seb128> ie we get lot of random issues being scrollkeeper-update crashing
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: but if it affects 50 people in our testing community, it's _still_ worth looking at it surely? (even if it is mistitled/misassigned)
[08:47] <mvo> it will attach the dmesg logs now
[08:47] <seb128> mvo: but it's not a bug, it's an installation issue
[08:47] <mvo> right, but it still deserves attention, no?
[08:47] <mvo> and often its bugs
[08:47] <seb128> we already had this discussion
[08:47] <seb128> I agree on that
[08:48] <seb128> I just don't think forcing me to keep those bugs on my component work
[08:48] <mvo> thats ok
[08:48] <seb128> I just close them now because you don't force things over people when that's not something they are responsive for there
[08:48] <pitti> no clue about 328885, this looks indeed like a weird apt/debconf issue
[08:48] <seb128> ie I've no clue what to do about dpkg index corruptions
[08:48] <mvo> so what should we do a) have a discussion (with more people) at uds again b) discuss on the ML c) just move them all to a new category?
[08:48] <seb128> and I don't care enough to keep those on my components
[08:49] <seb128> that would work for me
[08:49] <pitti> seb128: those aren't really the ones worth looking at indeed, which is why I'm eager to get more specific data into the bug reports
[08:49] <seb128> but you and pitti already expressed that you are against reassigning those to an "upgrade issue" place
[08:49] <mvo> yeah, 328885 is one of the useless ones :/
[08:49] <seb128> which means you force them at the wrong place where it will angry the maintainer only and not being worked anyway
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: I didn't say _re_assigning is a bad thing (although I'd prefer "invalid")
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: I'm just against reporting them all against a "package failures" project initially
[08:50] <seb128> pitti: where do we reassign those bugs? ie the avahi one
[08:50] <pitti> since that will just be one honking big mess nobody ever looks at
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: perhaps we misunderstood each other then
[08:50] <seb128> and why wouldn't we have some bugsquad ressource dedicated to triage that component ?
[08:51] <pitti> ^ no reason not to, we just don't have it
[08:51] <seb128> you seem to have the illusion that people actually triage those when they are on random components
[08:51] <seb128> looking at desktop packages bug triagers just ignore those
[08:51] <seb128> because they don't know what to do
[08:51] <pitti> well, I triage them on my pacakges
[08:52] <pitti> but I don't think that everyone does, and that's fine
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: what are you trying to convince me about?
[08:52] <seb128> pitti: that letting them assigned to random component is not efficient
[08:52] <pitti> (and no, I don't think we can tell the community "please go triage those 20.000 bugs against "install-failures", that won't work)
[08:52] <seb128> and that we should have an "upgrade issue" component
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: as I said, I can live with _re_assigning
[08:53] <pitti> just not with apport reporting them all against that component initially
[08:53] <seb128> ok, we started wrongly
[08:53] <seb128> let's restate what the problem is and what we need to do
[08:53] <pitti> if you look at a bug, say "oh crap, NFC", and reassign, that's fine
[08:54] <pitti> but then you looked at it and determined that you didn't see that issue 30 times already, and it's rarian which segfaults for half of the people
[08:54] <seb128> - we need an easy way to move the random corruption bugs out of the way
[08:54] <pitti> "invalid"?
[08:54] <pitti> (or "wontfix")
[08:54] <robert_ancell> re-assigning would make me happy as long as I could attach some sort of clue to the reporter on what they should do
[08:54] <pitti> reassigning to a garbage dump is not ideal, but WFM, too
[08:54] <seb128> ok, so course of action
[08:55] <seb128> - get a stock reply and wiki page for corruption cases
[08:55] <pitti> +1
[08:55] <seb128> and use those to close those bugs
[08:55] <robert_ancell> +1
[08:55] <didrocks> seems a good way to track them (hello o/)
[08:55] <seb128> - improve the information collecting process and auto-duplication
[08:56] <seb128> can we automatically detect and tag in a special file conflicts?
[08:56] <seb128> can we automatically detect and tag in a special way file conflicts?
[08:56] <seb128> those are usually valid and useful bugs
[08:56] <seb128> mvo: ^
[08:56] <pitti> right, and they sound like something we should be able to detect automatically
[08:56] <mvo> I think we can detect it in the error message
[08:57] <pitti> also, I'd really like to avoid filing a package install bug if something in postinst segfaulted, since that should rather create a proper .crash file
[08:57] <mvo> maitnainer script failures is something we can probably detect relatively easily as well
[08:57] <seb128> where do we keep note of those action items?
[08:57] <mvo> that would mean to enable apport again for all upgrades (stable->stable too)?
[08:58] <seb128> ok, so let me take notes
[08:58]  * pitti edits Bugs/Responses
[08:58] <seb128> mvo, pitti, robert_ancell: you agree with closing corruption bugs are invalid?
[08:58] <pitti> seb128: fine for me
[08:59] <seb128> are -> as
[08:59] <mvo> I'm still not comfortable with it, those might be dpkg errors (rare ones). but yeah, its ok with me
[08:59] <seb128> mvo: other option is to get a "upgrade issues" component
[08:59] <asac> what are "corruption" bugs? bad backtraces?
[08:59] <seb128> and reassign those there
[08:59] <robert_ancell> seb128: yes, as long as users get some info on how to save their system (i.e. don't think we're telling them it's not a problem)
[08:59] <seb128> asac: no, dpkg status corrupted for example
[08:59] <asac> oh. yeah
[08:59] <seb128> asac: or weird dpkg errors about new lines, or parsing issues
[08:59] <mvo> seb128: lets call it pkg failures or something, its not limited to upgrades IME
[09:00] <seb128> mvo: works for me
[09:01] <asac> seb128: do we have webkit ephy somewhere?
[09:01] <asac> (recent)
[09:01] <seb128> mvo: do you want a bug about the "would be nice to autotag file conflicts"?
[09:02] <seb128> asac: no but I think there is a ppa and the packaging is in debian pkg-gnome svn
[09:02] <YokoZar> mvo: I've been looking through the code of gnome-app-install and I have a design for how I'd like to extend it to support removing Wine applications.  Mind if I run it by you?
[09:02] <mvo> seb128: yes please
[09:02] <YokoZar> Also good evening ;)
[09:02] <YokoZar> Or morning ;)
[09:03] <asac> seb128: ok. i think i am member of the webkit team in launchpad ... let me check what those folks are doing actually
[09:03] <mvo> YokoZar: good evening
[09:03] <seb128> mvo: where should I open this bug?
[09:03] <seb128> mvo: apt?
[09:04] <mvo> seb128: yes
[09:05] <pitti> seb128, mvo, robert_ancell: first cut at a stock response: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Package%20installation%20failure
[09:06] <seb128> pitti: looks a good start to me thanks
[09:06] <robert_ancell> pitti looks good
[09:07] <bryce> pitti: I've tested with both 2.6.28 and 2.6.30 and have not noticed a difference in behavior
[09:08] <pitti> bryce: ok, good
[09:10] <robert_ancell> here's another question for everyone:  Bug 361622 requests that avahi provide a firewall rule - this seems crazy to me, if anything the firewall should have a default rule for avahi.  Do others agree?
[09:13] <seb128> mvo: bug #368435
[09:13] <mvo> thanks seb128
[09:14] <seb128> mvo: thank *you* and sorry for ranting again there
[09:14] <seb128> mvo: good that we are moving in a way where everybody is happy about the change though
[09:14] <mvo> seb128: yeah
[09:15] <didrocks> robert_ancell: you can provide in application packages ufw rules, which are activated or not considering the local policy. So, it doesn't sound too crazy for me :-)
[09:15] <robert_ancell> didrocks: thanks, not very familiar with ufw.  Will confirm it then
[09:16] <seb128> robert_ancell: talk to jdstrand on IRC when he's around
[09:16] <seb128> robert_ancell: I think the idea is that packages are shipping their firewall rules, ie when you install avahi that's to get it used and the firewall rule to allow that would be there
[09:17] <didrocks> seb128: exactly. I can handle it. I did for a bunch of packages when jdstrand asked some help for intrepid
[09:17] <robert_ancell> cool, thanks guys
[09:18] <didrocks> seb128: FYI, the desktop team presentation tomorrow at OpenWeek will be largely inspired by your last talk :)
[09:18] <seb128> didrocks: good ;-)
[09:19] <seb128> robert_ancell: you got a reply on this rhythmbox codec bug btw
[09:21] <seb128> robert_ancell: I'm looking the glade upgrade bug
[09:21] <seb128> robert_ancell: no need to nominate bugs for karmic that early in the cycle
[09:21] <robert_ancell> seb128: ok, wasn't sure when to do that.
[09:21] <seb128> you also want to add a debdiff for the update to the bug
[09:21] <robert_ancell> seb128: excellent, the rb response reproduces for me
[09:21] <seb128> gzipped if required
[09:22] <robert_ancell> seb128: I couldn't remember how to make the debdiff...
[09:22] <seb128> it makes review easier since the diff is on the bug
[09:22] <seb128> debdiff *.dsc
[09:22] <robert_ancell> thanks
[09:22] <seb128> in the dir where you have the jaunty version and your update
[09:24] <robert_ancell> seb128: there now
[09:24] <seb128> robert_ancell: thanks
[09:25] <robert_ancell> seb128: should have gzipped it as you said though...
[09:25] <seb128> robert_ancell: do you already have enough work for tomorrow?
[09:26] <robert_ancell> seb128: I have various stuff to do.  If there's something you want me to look at pass it over
[09:26] <seb128> robert_ancell: bug #368252 assigned to you
[09:26] <robert_ancell> (I've never found nothing to do :) )
[09:26] <seb128> robert_ancell: that seems another totem-pl-parser issue
[09:27] <seb128> not a high priority issue, but in case you get bored ;-)
[09:27] <seb128> the user claims that was working in intrepid
[09:40] <didrocks> seb128: do you me to rename jaunty/karmic in my waiting to be sponsored bug (as karmic repos are opened now)?
[09:40] <seb128> didrocks: feel free to do that
[09:41] <seb128> didrocks: I'm still on jaunty and trying to deal with the current bug flood so those uploads will wait
[09:41] <didrocks> seb128: oki, if I can do anything to help, do not hesitate (even if I'm quite busy now until middle of may ;))
[09:41] <pitti> just in case you missed it in -devel: karmic is open, go wild!
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: apparently we have some crack addicts, didrocks is already on it ;-)
[09:42] <didrocks> seb128: :-)
[09:42] <pitti> hehe
[09:42] <pitti> go didrocks!
[09:42]  * seb128 stills dealing with jaunty bugs
[09:42] <didrocks> pitti: just began ^^
[09:43] <pitti> please everyone remember to sub to karmic-changes@
[09:43] <didrocks> pitti: already done this morning :D
[09:43]  * pitti uploads new hal and dk-power
[09:44] <Tm_T> pitti: so you can spam our mailboxes down?
[09:44] <pitti> muhaha
[09:44] <Tm_T> "busted"
[09:44]  * didrocks is setting up a filter right now :)
[09:44] <Tm_T> I revealed your evil plan!
[09:44] <pitti> I have about 20 "fix committed" bugs, I want to clean my +assignedbugs list
[09:45]  * seb128 is always impressed by how early people switch to new crack ;-)
[09:45] <pitti> seb128: I wonder if you would mind if I'd upload the new gnome-power-manager with DK-power support
[09:45] <seb128> I must be the only of to still have a stack of jaunty bugs to get fixed
[09:45] <seb128> pitti: not at all, as said I'm still stucked in jaunty mode there ;-)
[09:46] <seb128> we have some evolution crasher issues
[09:46] <seb128> and lot of desktop bugs coming
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: please don't put too much effort into jaunty SRUs
[09:46] <seb128> feel free to upload anything you want to karmic
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: we got at least 15 people complaining about evolution calendar hanging evo since jaunty
[09:46] <pitti> yeah, I heared about that
[09:46] <pitti> that's indeed an important thing
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: I want to get that fixed, then I can switch to karmic
[09:46] <mvo> pitti: could you nag about about a sru approval for update-manager again? sorry that its such a sru intensive beast
[09:47] <pitti> seb128: I just don't think we should do a lot of work wrt. uploading all the point releases unless they fix something truly critical
[09:47] <pitti> mvo: of course
[09:47] <seb128> pitti: I'm almost done with srus on my list, I don't intend to spend much time on jaunty
[09:47] <mvo> thanks
[09:47] <seb128> pitti: right
[09:47]  * pitti hugs seb128, seems we're on the same page
[09:47] <seb128> pitti: karmic will be busy enough
[09:47]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:48] <didrocks> mvo: I add a karmic task to bug #361053 too
[09:49] <mvo> didrocks: ok
[09:49] <seb128> didrocks: don't
[09:49] <didrocks> oupsss
[09:49] <seb128> jaunty-updates are pocket copied to karmic
[09:50] <didrocks> oh, didn't know that :/ It's done until which milestone?
[09:50] <seb128> it's done when the versions are identic
[09:51] <seb128> in jaunty and karmic that is
[09:51] <seb128> it makes sense to have only one upload
[09:51] <pitti> yes, I regularly do that with SRUs
[09:51] <didrocks> ok, sorry, I can't revert the release nomination. I will just put a comment, so...
[09:52] <seb128> didrocks: that's ok, it's a detail
[09:52] <robert_ancell> mvo: here's one you might have an idea about: bug 291484
[09:52] <seb128> didrocks: just no need to create paper work where it's not required
[09:52] <didrocks> seb128: good to know, though :)
[10:09] <robert_ancell> see you all tomorrow
[10:10] <seb128> robert_ancell: good evening, see you tomorrow
[10:59] <pitti> didrocks: your gnome-terminal upload refers to LP: #572414, that doesn't exist
[11:00] <didrocks> pitti: let me check if I just mixed with the corresponding GNOME bug
[11:00]  * didrocks is confused :/
[11:00] <didrocks> pitti: it's bug #331295
[11:00] <didrocks> pitti: do you want I change it?
[11:01] <pitti> this doesn't really match our SRU criteria, and the session fix is quite intrusive
[11:01] <pitti> didrocks: please; also add a real changelog line for it which refers to the bug
[11:01] <pitti> the "new upstream release" one should just close the sponsoring bug
[11:01] <didrocks> pitti: ok, I am quite unconfortable to add lines that are not on NEWS file, but I will :)
[11:02] <didrocks> pitti: do you think the gnome-session handling goes against the SRU criteria.
[11:02] <pitti> I don't think bug 333603 is of any SRU concern
[11:02] <pitti> session saving is _terminally_ broken in current gnome
[11:02] <james_w> heh :-)
[11:03] <pitti> and changing that behaviour in an SRU is not really appropriate IMHO
[11:03] <pitti> I'd upload that to karmic and consider it done
[11:03] <didrocks> pitti: ok, so, we just postpone in a regular update to karmic :)
[11:03] <crevette> hi gentlemen
[11:03] <didrocks> hey james_w ;)
[11:03] <didrocks> and crevette
[11:03] <crevette> sorry for not very active theses days
[11:03] <crevette> :)
[11:03] <crevette> +being
[11:04] <james_w> salut
[11:05] <pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks
[11:09] <pitti> ember: please prepare bugs for SRUs properly (brasero)
[11:09] <pitti> fixing bugs to be SRU compliant is an awful lot of work for me
[11:11] <didrocks> pitti: done. I removed also the release tag in bzr and changed the bug title. Sorry for the extra useless work in candidating it for SRU
[11:11] <pitti> didrocks: n/p; just be very conservative about SRUs
[11:11] <didrocks> pitti: understood
[11:14] <huats> hello everyone !
[11:22] <pitti> mvo: wow, fixing all kinds of random broken universe stuff?
[11:22]  * pitti wishes there was a way to make the upgrade more robust instead of forcing us to do those updates
[11:24] <mvo> pitti: yeah, I was going over the apport-package list and noticed those issues (some pretty simple to fix)
[11:24] <mvo> pitti: and yes, its anoying :/
[11:25] <pitti> mvo: what concerns me is that those aren't really "simple fixes"
[11:25] <pitti> once you do them, you need to feed them to Debian, get them applied, fix them in karmic, etc.
[11:25] <pitti> those aren't just "fire and forget" updates
[11:25] <mvo> pitti: I have some hopes for the aufs based upgrader, but that will still mean that a broken package would prevent the upgrade (it would just be a rollback)
[11:25] <mvo> pitti: right
[11:25] <pitti> and I wouldn't like you to get even more swamped in this stuff
[11:25] <mvo> pitti: yeah, the cost is relatively high :(
[11:26] <pitti> mvo: we don't do auto-upgrade tests with universe?
[11:28] <mvo> pitti: we have code for this, it just takes ages. I did a ugprade with a image of ~15.000 packages installed, dpkg was 500mb real mem
[11:28] <mvo> and reading the file list took ages
[11:28] <mvo> it whole thing lastet a couple of days
[11:29] <mvo> but we definitely should do more for karmic (there is a spec about a ec2 based tester planned)
[11:29] <pitti> I thought u-m already does some tricks to continue the update if there is a single broken package, or by and large ignore file conflicts
[12:03] <mvo> pitti: it does ignore all file conflicts and it will continue on error, but that only help if the error is not too deep down in the dependency chain
[12:05] <mvo> why was the gnome-terminal jaunty-proposed upload rejected?
[12:14] <pitti> wrong bug attribution in changelog, and general unsuitability for SRU
[12:14] <pitti> (I followed up in the bug)
[12:17] <mvo> aha, ok
[12:17] <mvo> I kind of assumed gnome updates where ok, but I'm fine with that
[12:18] <pitti> actually we only had this exception in hardy, we just continued to practice it in intrepid
[12:18] <pitti> and I'm still generally fine with it, but this one was a bit too intrusive for my taste
[12:18] <pitti> point releases should fix bugs, not fundamentally change behaviour
[12:46] <jtholmes> popey, are you on
[12:59] <popey> jtholmes: hi
[13:00] <jtholmes> popey, good day i just discovered last night that you are the screencasts person, nice job btw you and your team
[13:01] <popey> where unfortunately the team has been somewhat dormat for a while
[13:01] <popey> needs reviving
[13:01] <jtholmes> i am having problems downloading and saving any of the screencasts and wondered what i am doing wrong
[13:01] <popey> any in particular?
[13:02] <jtholmes> let me get the  name
[13:02] <jtholmes> lets start with installing ubuntu part 1
[13:02] <popey> they're quite old and could do with updating :)
[13:02] <popey> which is on my todo list
[13:03] <jtholmes> yes but they do server a very useful purpose
[13:03] <jtholmes> I click on the download 1280X720 vorbis... and it plays but will not download any ideas
[13:03] <popey> http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/
[13:03] <popey> grab them from there
[13:04] <jtholmes> ah, oh let me try that
[13:04] <popey> http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/20070909_installing_ubuntu_part_1_theora_400k_vorbis_1280x720.ogg
[13:04] <popey> thats probably the one you want
[13:05] <jtholmes> good thanks, one more thing have you done a wubi sc
[13:05] <popey> no
[13:05] <jtholmes> ok i will let you get back to your work, thanks
[13:05] <popey> np
[13:10] <jtholmes> popey question pls
[13:10] <popey> fire away
[13:11] <jtholmes> at static...  it still only plays doesnt download what am i doing wrong using FF
[13:11] <popey> right click, save link as
[13:12] <jtholmes> so then the link is saved but how do i then get the contents to my machine
[13:12] <popey> sorry, save target as :)
[13:12] <jtholmes> ok let me try thx
[13:13] <popey> np
[13:15] <jtholmes> save link as is doing it not familiar with that, interesting thanks again i have a situation where i cant go to the inet to get it must have it locally appreciate you help
[13:17] <popey> no problem
[13:52] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[13:52] <rickspencer3> seb128: nice to see you today
[13:53] <seb128> nice to see you too!
[13:53] <seb128> did you have a good trip back in the us?
[13:53] <rickspencer3> yes
[13:53] <seb128> good ;-)
[13:53] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[13:53] <rickspencer3> I stopped in Washington D.C. to visit my new nephew
[13:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: enjoyed the long weekend?
[13:53] <rickspencer3> yes
[13:53] <seb128> excellent
[13:53] <rickspencer3> I love D.C. it is a wonderful city
[13:54] <pitti> hah, /me runs 2.6.30rc3, -intel 2.7.0 and UXA now
[13:54] <pitti> let's see where this leads me to
[13:54] <rickspencer3> fortunately, my sister in law clearly did not want company, so had plenty of time to sight see and such
[13:54] <rickspencer3> pitti: thanks for that
[13:54] <rickspencer3> I hope it works
[13:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: I survived the first 5 minutes ;)
[13:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: anyway, quick update on the 965 issue
[13:54] <rickspencer3> I've seen a couple of bugs related to freezes on i945 too :(
[13:55] <seb128> pitti: interesting but bryce_ was trying to get the hang using a virtual setting yesterday
[13:55] <pitti> rickspencer3: meeting on Friday didn't yield anything significant
[13:55] <pitti> seb128: right
[13:55] <seb128> and seems to confirm that it workaround the bug
[13:55] <seb128> at least as said I'm using a virtual setting and never got any issue
[13:55] <pitti> rickspencer3: setting a virtualsize by default sounds like a promising workaround right now
[13:56] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[13:56]  * seb128 notes that I suggested that some weeks ago
[13:56] <rickspencer3> seems hacky to me without knowing the root cause
[13:56] <seb128> rickspencer3: disabling compiz is hacky too ...
[13:56] <rickspencer3> seb128: good point
[13:56] <pitti> if we can do that only on the 965, it's acceptable IMHO
[13:56] <pitti> it's not acceptable to set it as default on all intel chips, of course
[13:56] <seb128> what are the drawback of that?
[13:56] <seb128> it allows to use multiple screen too
[13:56] <pitti> bryce and I had a quick discussion of that, he wanted to prepare a test package and toss that back to upstraem
[13:57] <pitti> seb128: we don't know what it breaks on other chipsets
[13:57] <rickspencer3> are they still trying to pursue the root cause though?
[13:57] <seb128> I meant on 965
[13:57] <pitti> rickspencer3: not really, at least not on stuff which can't be reproduced on 2.7.0/uxa
[13:58] <rickspencer3> so basically exa is a lost cause in their mind, and we need to mitigate until we can get users to uxa?
[13:58] <pitti> right
[13:58] <pitti> so we'll probably end up with keeping a workaround for jaunty
[13:58] <pitti> like setting virtualsize or whatever we come up with
[13:58] <pitti> right now we have no clue _why_ it works
[13:59] <rickspencer3> in a way, we've worked around it now
[13:59] <pitti> (or whether it works for everyone, thus creating the test package)
[13:59] <pitti> unfortuantely, my guess with the pipe underrun patch was wrong
[13:59] <pitti> it was a shot in the dark only, but at least worth trying
[13:59] <rickspencer3> we should discuss whether we should make a change, or just share how to workaround?
[14:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: let's give this some more testing days with a new package with vsize
[14:00] <rickspencer3> I'm a bit uneasy about changing people's xorg.conf now that it's in the wild
[14:00] <rickspencer3> pitti: ack
[14:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: nooo
[14:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: I mean changing the driver to _default_ to vsize 4096 by default on i965
[14:00] <rickspencer3> oh
[14:00] <rickspencer3> ok
[14:00] <pitti> (or 2048, or whatever turns out to be best)
[14:00] <rickspencer3> that makes much more sense
[14:00] <pitti> changing xorg.conf in an update -> impossible
[14:01] <rickspencer3> heh .. update manager just opened :)
[14:01] <rickspencer3> pitti: thanks for driving this
[14:01] <rickspencer3> and helping bryce
[14:02] <pitti> well, I couldn't do a lot, just throw in some ideas and prod some people
[14:02]  * pitti hugs bryce
[14:02] <rickspencer3> It sounds like changing the default virtual size in the driver would make it more robust in any case
[14:02] <pitti> well, we don't know for sure yet, but we have two positive results
[14:02] <pitti> I'd like to see that being confirmed by the other testers
[14:03] <rickspencer3> I agree with seb128 though, it seemed likely from when we were first collecting data about the bug
[14:03] <rickspencer3> I'll be glad to test bryce's patch later today
[14:04] <pitti> rickspencer3: no patch yet, we just talked about it
[14:04] <rickspencer3> I know
[14:04] <pitti> rickspencer3: but you can set VirtualSize manually to test
[14:04] <kenvandine_wk> hey rickspencer3
[14:04] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: hi
[14:04] <rickspencer3> good morning
[14:04] <pitti> I need to go to a doctor appointment now
[14:04] <pitti> I should be back well before the meeting
[14:04] <rickspencer3> pitti: let me know what to do to help
[14:04] <pitti> cu!
[14:04] <rickspencer3> laters! and thanks again
[14:05] <rickspencer3> so much email!
[14:05]  * rickspencer3 gets shovel from shed
[14:05] <seb128> rickspencer3: are you subscribed to bug emails too?
[14:06] <rickspencer3> seb128: I am subscribed to many bugs, yes
[14:06] <rickspencer3> if that's what you mean
[14:06] <seb128> ok, because the week after a new version is always crazy
[14:07] <seb128> I meant rather subscribed to ubuntu components
[14:07] <seb128> ie any source package will generate lot of bugmails this week
[14:08] <rickspencer3> seb128: no, I don't subscribe to components
[14:08] <seb128> ok
[14:08] <rickspencer3> I can only imagine what it's like for you at this point
[14:09]  * kenvandine_wk hugs pitti's mail filters :)
[14:09] <rickspencer3> seb128: are there packages that you think I should be subscribed to? I thought subscribing to the whole ubuntu desktop would be a bit much
[14:10] <seb128> rickspencer3: not really no, I guess you have enough on your plates already and there is no real point for you to read bugs emails now
[14:10] <seb128> ie there is nothing urgent for karmic which just started and jaunty is stable now
[14:11] <rickspencer3> I do review all the change mail for Jaunty
[14:11] <rickspencer3> there is a lot more than I thought there would be
[14:11] <seb128> it's always that busy
[14:12] <seb128> there is quite some bug fixes that we want but where the freeze blocked us
[14:12] <rickspencer3> mm
[14:12] <seb128> so we tend to queue those and upload just after stable
[14:12] <rickspencer3> seems that we are not necessarily the most active team in the proposed changes
[14:12] <seb128> and still so issues not raised before but showing in post stable feedback
[14:13] <seb128> so -> some
[14:13] <rickspencer3> I'm still learning the whole release process, it will be another month until I've had one release under my belt, and that will only be one release :)
[14:14] <seb128> "not the most active team"
[14:14] <rickspencer3> make me grateful to be on a such a great team
[14:14] <seb128> that's good ;-)
[14:14] <seb128> that means that we are not the team with all the bugs ;-)
[14:14] <rickspencer3> heh
[14:15] <seb128> for my part I'm mostly done with jaunty updates
[14:15] <seb128> I usually spend the freeze time
[14:15] <seb128> and the week before +1 opening
[14:15] <seb128> on stable updates and then switch to the new version
[14:15] <seb128> ie karmic just opened today
[14:33]  * rickspencer3 is down to 431 unread emails :'(
[14:37] <Ampelbein> seb128: hi. can you sponsor bug 366723?
[14:37] <seb128> Ampelbein: hi, will do when I start on karmic uploads
[14:37] <Ampelbein> ok
[14:37] <D0pamine> hai all
[14:44] <seb128> mvo: hum, the python-apt api changed?
[14:45] <seb128> mvo: is there an equivalent to sources.Binaries now?
[14:45] <seb128> sources = apt_pkg.GetPkgSrcRecords()
[14:45] <seb128>     sources.Restart()
[14:45] <seb128>     sources.Lookup(package)
[14:45] <seb128>     binaries = sources.Binaries
[14:45] <seb128> mvo: ^ that's what I was doing
[14:47] <mvo> this bit should not have changed in ages, let me check
[14:48] <seb128> mvo:
[14:48] <seb128>     binaries = sources.Binaries
[14:48] <seb128> AttributeError: Binaries
[14:48] <seb128> mvo: is what I get on jaunty
[14:48] <seb128> that was working in intrepid
[14:49] <mvo> seb128: what python-apt version do you run? that seems to work for me
[14:49] <seb128> ii  python-apt                                 0.7.9~exp2ubuntu10                   Python interface to libapt-pkg
[14:50] <seb128> hum
[14:51] <seb128> mvo: ok, that's an error in my code then
[14:51] <mvo> seb128: I tried: http://paste.ubuntu.com/160023/
[14:51] <seb128> mvo: yeah, I've a source package listed in my table which is not in jaunty
[14:51] <seb128> the error is not obvious though
[14:51] <mvo> seb128: yeah, the error sucks
[14:51] <seb128> mvo: sorry for the noise, thanks for looking into it
[14:52] <mvo> Lookup() will return a bool if it was successful or not
[14:52] <mvo> seb128: no problem
[14:52] <mvo> (re: noise :)
[14:52] <seb128> right, I don't check the return code
[14:52] <seb128> will teach me to write quick and ugly code
[14:52] <seb128> that's to list versions of GNOME packages newer in debian
[14:52] <seb128> to now what needs to be merge in karmic
[15:33] <pitti> hello again
[15:33] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: are they useful to you? :-)
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: they?
[15:34] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: mail filters
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> oh
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> yeah
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> very
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> i recreated them all in evo though
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[15:34] <kenvandine_wk> but used the same critiria  you did
[15:35] <kenvandine_wk> would have taken me months to figure out what to do with stuff without your guide :)
[15:35] <kenvandine_wk> of course the launchpad headers rock!
[15:37] <popey> vuntz: do you have a moment to explain what the blocker on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346162 is?
[15:45] <pitti> nice, two of my u1 filed bugs got closed as fixed now, and three more triaged
[15:46] <pitti> . o O { gosh, compiz with uxa/dri2 is FUN! }
[15:46] <tedg> popey: I'm not sure, but if I was to guess I'd guess the issue is XEmbed going across screens, which is how the notification area is implemented.
[15:48] <popey> thanks for the prompt reply tedg, I have a frustrated user in #ubuntu-uk who is willing to do whatever testing is necessary to help move this bug along. He uses 4 screens on two cards and would dearly love this to work. Is there anything he/we can do?
[15:48] <popey> he obviously realises that 4 screens is something that the xorg devs may not have access to
[15:51] <tedg> popey: I don't think so, I think this may be an X limitation.  There is a KDE proposal to change the notification area spec to use DBus instead of XEmbed that will probably hit KDE for 4.3....  but I haven't seen any GNOME folks reply to the thread.
[15:53] <popey> tedg: thats a shame. He tells me that other options such as "stalonetray" (in the repo) works, would that be one that is DBus based then?
[15:53] <vuntz> popey: the blocker on my side is time & difficulties to test
[15:54] <popey> hi vuntz
[15:54] <hggdh> question: having had my first debdiff approved, I found myself receiving about 20 emails from Rosetta complaining about translations. Is this normal?
[15:54] <vuntz> popey: the annoying thing is that it might only be a tiny detail that is wrong :/
[15:54] <seb128> hggdh: yes
[15:54] <seb128> hggdh: rosetta bug
[15:55] <popey> vuntz: would it be worth trying to raise the profile of that bug, to see if any other developers are able to look at it, i.e. have time and equipment?
[15:56] <hggdh> seb128, thanks. So I can filter to trash without any guilt, correct?
[15:56] <seb128> hggdh: yes
[15:56] <hggdh> thanks
[15:56] <seb128> you're welcome
[15:58] <vuntz> popey: what do you mean with "raise the profile"?
[15:59] <popey> well if you dont have the time/equipment to resolve the issue, perhaps someone else might?
[16:00] <vuntz> popey: other developers would fix the bug if they were hitting it
[16:00] <vuntz> (since it's a pretty annoying one, I'd say)
[16:00] <popey> true
[16:00] <vuntz> popey: so I don't quite know what we can do to raise the profile
[16:03] <popey> ok, thanks vuntz / tedg for taking the time to talk to me about it, it's appreciated
[16:13] <rickspencer3> hi Yingying_Zhao
[16:30] <asac> need answer: (a) meeting starts now, (b) meeting starts in 30 min, (c) meeting starts in 1h, (d) none of the above _____
[16:30] <pitti> asac: I pick (c)
[16:30] <pitti> did I win 1M EUR now?
[16:31] <asac> ;)
[16:31] <asac> thx
[16:40] <calc_> hehe
[16:40]  * calc_ hopes his car starts up the next time he tries... had to drive it through water at full acceleration yesterday :(
[16:42] <calc_> i thought i was going to hit my garage door because i had to drive at full accel even into my driveway so i wouldn't stall out my car, was borderline floating :\
[16:43] <mvo> seb128: geh, the code to do the file-overwrite error detection is going to be ugly :/
[16:43] <seb128> mvo: why?
[16:44] <mvo> seb128: dpkg sends a localized error message with %.250s in it
[16:44] <seb128> can we stop translating it? ;-)
[16:44] <mvo> haha
[16:44] <seb128> or do print an extra line only for that purpose?
[16:44] <mvo> that would be a good start ;)
[16:45] <mvo> yeah, best is to have dpkg give better status message, I have some code that should work with the string too, but its really not ideal
[16:45] <mvo> (works, but ugly)
[16:46] <asac> calc_: sounds wet ;)
[16:46] <seb128> mvo: ok
[16:47] <calc_> asac: yea, still raining today as well, but luckily the water has gone down at the moment
[16:47] <calc_> i'm surprised we haven't hit the saturation point again
[16:48] <calc_> hmm lots of warnings to stay away from any river in the area :\
[16:49] <calc_> satellite service appears to be knocked out so i can't see the local weather warnings about flooding :\
[16:55] <calc_> seb128: do you know if there is a bug report about this yet http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7152067 ?
[16:55]  * calc_ just ran into that bug himself trying to watch local news since his sat is down
[16:57] <calc_> shit my wife went to the doctor without a cellphone for me to tell her to come home :\
[16:57] <calc_> apparently all schools are closed, it appears it is very serious
[16:58] <seb128> this post suggests that's not a bug
[16:58] <seb128> it just needs non free codecs not installed by default
[16:58] <calc_> well isn't totem supposed to find them for you?
[16:58] <calc_> it doesn't do that as it did prior to 9.04
[16:59] <calc_> currently it just tells you the protocol support is missing and leaves the user to figure out what to do about it themselves
[17:02] <seb128> totem does the mozilla plugin doesn't
[17:02] <seb128> that's a known issue
[17:03] <calc_> hmm well spawning a full totem from the mozilla plugin still didn't find it for me
[17:04] <calc_> i'll try testing it again on my other system and reporting the bug with an example site to use later today (assuming i don't lose power again)
[17:05] <calc_> 25cm of rain overnight
[17:07] <seb128> could be gnome-codec-install being buggy
[17:07] <seb128> but I don't know about this code
[17:07] <seb128> that's a slomo thing
[17:09] <calc_> ok i'll report it there along with the details once i test it again
[17:13]  * calc_ wonders if he still has internet access
[17:14] <calc_> wow 27s ping response i'm very lagged
[17:20] <mvo> didrocks: so g-t 2.26.1 should go to karmic?
[17:22] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: could you please add notes and links to the wiki regarding U1 before we start?
[17:22]  * pitti tosses some TCP packets to calc
[17:25] <calc> it seems to be mostly working atm
[17:26] <calc> only 3s now
[17:29] <pitti> seb128: can we cowtrade merges? I do gconf for you, you do rarian for me?
[17:29] <bryce> heya rickspencer3, wb!
[17:29] <seb128> pitti: ok
[17:29] <rickspencer3> tx
[17:29] <seb128> pitti: I didn't even notice that you had gconf assigned, I don't use merge.ubuntu.com usually
[17:30] <pitti> seb128: merci; I still pretty much don't have a clue what scrollkeeper/rarian are doing in the first place :/
[17:30] <pitti> seb128: well, you have gconf assigned, but I have rarian
[17:30] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: sure
[17:30] <pitti> because I'm TIL (small dependency fix or so)
[17:30] <seb128> pitti: ok, let's trade then ;-)
[17:30] <calc> meeting?
[17:30] <rickspencer3> meeting time?
[17:30]  * pitti sits down
[17:30] <rickspencer3> heh
[17:31]  * rickspencer3 slaps desk with ruler
[17:31] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-04-28
[17:31] <rickspencer3> unfortunately, I'm still catching up, so not quite as organized as I like to be
[17:31] <pitti> ugh, activity reports are a bit thin
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti: right, I haven't had a chance to put them in the wiki yet
[17:32] <pitti> but I saw them fly by in mail
[17:32] <rickspencer3> it's all my fault
[17:32] <pitti> n/p :) *hug*
[17:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: hope you enjoyed the long weekend
[17:32] <rickspencer3> well, I've been working non-stop since like 5:30am, so am not feeling too guilty ;)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I hope everyone is feeling good about Jaunty
[17:32] <pitti> my clock does not have 5:30 _AM_
[17:32] <rickspencer3> the buzz in the office in London was *very* positive
[17:33] <rickspencer3> Gerry told me "best reviews ever!"
[17:33] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: done
[17:33] <rickspencer3> so, first topic
[17:33] <pitti> a friend of mine is very pleased with it, told me to pass on the "thank you"
[17:33] <rickspencer3> State of Jaunty
[17:33] <pitti> we have tons of SRUs
[17:33] <rickspencer3> general feedback about quality
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> pitti: is that normal?
[17:33] <pitti> but none of them really OMGkittensdie
[17:33] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, very
[17:33] <seb128> pitti: "tons" .. the normal amount I would say
[17:33] <pitti> a few major upgrade issues
[17:34] <pitti> seb128: we normally have "tons and tons" :)
[17:34] <seb128> ;-)
[17:34] <pitti> and some polish
[17:34] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:34] <pitti> I was pretty liberal in the first few days after jaunty
[17:34] <pitti> but now I'll raise the bar pretty high
[17:34] <pitti> sorry, davmor/mvo :)
[17:35] <rickspencer3> as discussed, I would like to transfer effort to Karmic as rapidly as possible
[17:35] <pitti> we still have a major e-d-s crasher and the 965 issue, otherwise I wouldn't waste too much work on it
[17:35] <rickspencer3> pitti: good
[17:35] <seb128> pitti: e-d-s crasher -> libical waiting for you
[17:35] <seb128> pitti: I turned of the crashing warnings
[17:35] <pitti> seb128: you rock
[17:35] <pitti> hah
[17:35] <rickspencer3> pitti: bug #?
[17:35] <seb128> pitti: which is what fedora does and upstream recommends doing
[17:36] <rickspencer3> for those following along?
[17:36] <pitti> bug 368508
[17:36] <seb128> rickspencer3: e-d-s crasher? look to recent bugs there
[17:36] <pitti> I presume
[17:36] <seb128> there is several bugs which are probably duplicates
[17:36] <pitti> you guys upload faster than I can process SRUs :)
[17:36] <seb128> pitti: yes
[17:36] <bryce> hehe
[17:36] <seb128> pitti: I switched to karmic this afternoon ;-)
[17:36] <seb128> so expect less SRUs from me
[17:37] <pitti> seb128: would be nice if you could dupe some real bug reports to that one, to get some testers subscsribed
[17:37] <seb128> "switched", ie I'm not using it yet
[17:37] <seb128> but I'm working on it
[17:37] <pitti> anyway, no meeting issue
[17:37] <seb128> pitti: will do
[17:37] <pitti> anyone else aware of somethign major which needs fixing in jaunty?
[17:37] <rickspencer3> I feel that we still have this i965 nut to crack, and that as a team we won't really be done with Jaunty until we have compiz working again
[17:37] <pitti> asac: did anything pop up on the nm/ff front?
[17:37] <pitti> bryce: and any other kitten killers besides 965?
[17:38] <bryce> not really
[17:38] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: or major breakage in notify-osd?
[17:38] <bryce> well, lots of X bugs kill kittens
[17:38] <bryce> but none that are on a rampage
[17:38] <pitti> ok, good
[17:38] <pitti> bryce: all will be better with DRI2/UXA, right? :-)
[17:38] <pitti> (famous last words)
[17:38] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: not really
[17:38] <bryce> I've talked to colin king about the performance issue, so we may see some progress there, but that's mainly kernel side stuff
[17:39] <bryce> pitti: yes, we get to exchange all our nasty old bugs
[17:39] <bryce> for fresh new ones
[17:39]  * pitti is running 2.6.30rc3/uxa/dri2/2.7.0 happily
[17:39] <pitti> ok, seems the "jaunty state" topic is done?
[17:39] <rickspencer3> yes
[17:40] <rickspencer3> except ... if you have an i965, or access to one, please be highly responsive to requests for assistance
[17:40] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: U1?
[17:40] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[17:40] <kenvandine_wk> so U1 beta is coming up soon
[17:40] <kenvandine_wk> and I don't think we have had enough testing... so I have been turning up the heat
[17:40] <seb128> what is U1?
[17:40] <pitti> ubuntu one
[17:40] <kenvandine_wk> I even went cold turkey from dropbox
[17:41] <kenvandine_wk> serious dogfooding
[17:41] <seb128> ah ok
[17:41] <kenvandine_wk> there are instructions on the meeting wiki page for setting it up, everyone on the desktop team needs to kick the tires and report bugs
[17:41] <kenvandine_wk> but wait until tomorrow please :)
[17:41] <kenvandine_wk> major bug fixes are landing today as well as ppa changes
[17:42] <kenvandine_wk> thanks, lets help make sure U1 rocks!
[17:42] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: thanks
[17:42] <rickspencer3> all - please note that the U1 team is trying *very* hard to be easy to work with here
[17:43] <rickspencer3> so I ask that we support them in kind by running their bits
[17:43] <rickspencer3> I'll ask kenvandine_wk to set up some kind of test or something that we can all participate in for the next team meeting
[17:43] <rickspencer3> next topic
[17:43] <rickspencer3> Launchpad Team and Kubuntu
[17:43] <rickspencer3> I just wanted to point out that three of the leads are serious Kubuntu fans
[17:44] <rickspencer3> Riddell: ^^^
[17:44] <rickspencer3> I'm trying to get them to join #kubuntu-devel and support the project
[17:44] <rickspencer3> next topic: Launchpad Team and Kubuntu
[17:44] <rickspencer3> oops ... copy paste error ;)
[17:44] <rickspencer3> All Hands
[17:44] <rickspencer3> everyone ready?
[17:45] <pitti> I brought my two hands
[17:45] <Riddell> cool
[17:45] <pitti> still need to prep the talks, though
[17:45] <rickspencer3> anyone else doing a talk?
[17:45]  * rickspencer3 raises hand
[17:45] <calc> i am, need to finish it up still
[17:45] <ArneGoetje> any information in which format the talks should be? I didn't see anything announced
[17:45] <ArneGoetje> me too
[17:45] <pitti> hm, it came through the lists
[17:46] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to dig up info on all hands talk and resend to desktop team
[17:46] <pitti> I got two "talk approved" mails with some details, you didn't?
[17:46] <bryce> I'm doing a talk but I've not even had a moment to think about UDS :-(
[17:46] <ArneGoetje> I only saw the announcement for the talks, but I haven't seen anything about the preferred file format
[17:46] <rickspencer3> seb128: you're doing one if I recall correctly
[17:46] <seb128> rickspencer3: I got no email
[17:46] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[17:46] <seb128> so I guess my talk didn't get approved
[17:47] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to check on seb128's talk
[17:47] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: i got a no thanks mail :)
[17:47] <rickspencer3> seb128: I thought I was cc'ed on one for you
[17:47] <seb128> rickspencer3: could have been spammed then
[17:47] <rickspencer3> seb128: ack, I'll check it out asap
[17:47]  * pitti wonders about the spammy topic seb128 will talk about then
[17:47] <seb128> if it got spammed I deleted it
[17:48] <seb128> or "marked as spam" rather
[17:48] <rickspencer3> seb128's topic was about about canning spiced ham, so it may have been diverted
[17:48] <seb128> I've difficulties to keep my boxes spam free at the moment
[17:48] <rickspencer3> ready to talk a little about UDS?
[17:48] <seb128> yes!
[17:48] <kenvandine_wk> i've had my email addy for 2 months now... and get a ton of spam already, can only imagine what seb128 gets
[17:49] <rickspencer3> a key change for Karmic is that we have two rooms
[17:49]  * pitti gets about 5000 a day through SpamAssassin, and about 70.000 per day which are rejected earlier on
[17:49] <calc> the canonical filter seems to catch most of my spam
[17:49] <rickspencer3> also, we are "hosting" Dx and Design in our track
[17:50] <rickspencer3> you may notice that I have added a bunch of blueprint "stubs"
[17:50] <ArneGoetje> mie didn't get approved yet
[17:50] <ArneGoetje> mine
[17:50] <rickspencer3> essentially placeholders that I could use to subscibe folks to and for scheduling
[17:50] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: no problems. These initial ones were based on internal partners and other things
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> ok
[17:51] <rickspencer3> folks from the community and Ubuntu engineers, still have time to create blueprints
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> until when?
[17:51] <seb128> do we need to create blueprints or only to suggest topics?
[17:51] <rickspencer3> ideally, you would all get them stubbed out by eow
[17:52] <rickspencer3> seb128: go ahead and create them, I think
[17:52] <rickspencer3> I haven't been through this before, so I thought I would let you all tell me how you want to do it
[17:52] <rickspencer3> I'
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ll create them for you if you want, but it seems more efficient just to let you do it
[17:52] <rickspencer3> pitti: what do you think?
[17:52] <pitti> would be good to have the blueprints created in a week, so that we can still schedule them appropriately
[17:53] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i have a few i proposed, which don't show up on the list yet... not sure what has to happen there
[17:53] <seb128> right, I was just wondering if we were filtering topics before
[17:53] <pitti> yes, everyone should create their "own", which you are interested in
[17:53] <seb128> to not create blueprint for things which are not scheduled or accepted
[17:53] <pitti> set drafter to you, approver to me, and propose for uds-karmic
[17:53] <seb128> ok
[17:54] <pitti> blueprints need to have a good summary and title
[17:54] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: if i find one that exists already, how can i set myself to drafter?
[17:54] <pitti> no need to create wiki pages yet, although of course having them is nice
[17:54] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: "change people"
[17:54] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: prod me to do it if you can't
[17:54] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[17:54] <kenvandine_wk> i have a couple i can't
[17:54] <pitti> (it's restricted to some group I can't remember)
[17:55] <pitti> or prod rickspencer3, whoever is available
[17:55] <kenvandine_wk> i'll poke you after the meeting
[17:55] <rickspencer3> In terms of title, I would ask that folks also start the name with "desktop"
[17:55] <pitti> so before next meeting, rick and I will go through the karmic proposed ones and approve them
[17:55] <rickspencer3> this makes the list much easier to use, I also have to manage dx and design sessions
[17:55] <pitti> so that we can talk about the list in next week's meeting
[17:56] <kenvandine_wk> can we rename the existing ones?
[17:56] <pitti> right, good to bring that up
[17:56] <kenvandine_wk> or have you guys rename them?
[17:56] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: yes
[17:56] <pitti> please prefix the spec identifiers with desktop-karmic-*
[17:56] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: retitling is easy, I don't know if the identifier can be changed
[17:56] <pitti> anyone should be able to update title/description
[17:57] <kenvandine_wk> i can't for the ones i didn't create
[17:57] <kenvandine_wk> at least the one i tried
[17:57] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: ok, let rickspencer3 or me reassign, then you will be able to
[17:57] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[17:58] <rickspencer3> next topic is easy: Desktop Summit
[17:58] <rickspencer3> let me know if you're going, or want to go
[17:58] <tkamppeter> I will not be there.
[17:58] <rickspencer3> also, Canonical is hosting the welcoming party, so if you're going, make sure you get there in time for that, it should be a blast
[17:58] <bryce> me neither
[17:58] <rickspencer3> :(
[17:58] <calc> rickspencer3: i emailed you last week about it
[17:58] <ArneGoetje> me neither
[17:59] <calc> rickspencer3: i'm interested in going but didn't have time to submit a paper before the deadline
[17:59] <rickspencer3> okay, let me know *off list* if you're going or want to go :)
[17:59] <rickspencer3> calc: ping me later and we can talk
[17:59] <calc> ok
[17:59] <rickspencer3> next: OEM team swapperoo
[17:59] <rickspencer3> reminder that calc will be working with OEM services starting next week!
[17:59] <rickspencer3> and we'll have a new team member as well (Tony, I think)
[18:00] <bryce> have fun calc
[18:00] <calc> bryce: heh :)
[18:00] <bryce> will tony be working on openoffice then, or general desktop stuff?
[18:00] <calc> i get to learn lots of new things and bring back my knowledge to the desktop crew in november :)
[18:00] <rickspencer3> bryce: both
[18:01] <rickspencer3> I think we'll have to basically slow down OOo development (which given the Sun buyout may be prudent anyway) and spread the work around a bit
[18:01] <rickspencer3> also, calc will have some time to help us
[18:01] <calc> the biggest chunk of OOo work is getting bugs properly triaged due to having two upstreams
[18:01] <calc> we are pretty much caught up at the moment but get lots of new bugs every day :)
[18:01] <rickspencer3> calc: We'll miss you, but I think you'll have a great time, and learn tons
[18:02] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:02] <calc> yep :)
[18:02] <bryce> oh I have one thing
[18:03] <bryce> I already mentioned it on the ubuntu-devel@ mailing list, but the X team has a PPA set up now with updates for all the major video drivers
[18:03] <pitti> calc: good luck!
[18:03] <bryce> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates/
[18:03] <rickspencer3> bryce: notice that Yingying_Zhao has started haning out in #u-d?
[18:03] <bryce> I'm sure everyone here will be on karmic so will be getting these automatically, but please pass word around about this to anyone sticking to Jaunty.
[18:04] <bryce> rickspencer3: no I hadn't
[18:04] <rickspencer3> hi Yingying_Zhao o/
[18:04]  * bryce waves to Yingying_Zhao
[18:04] <pitti> hi Yingying_Zhao, nice to see you here!
[18:04] <bryce> I'm formulating plans for -intel focus work for karmic, but more on that later.
[18:04] <rickspencer3> schweet
[18:04] <bryce> naught else from me.
[18:05] <rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
[18:05] <calc> oh is Tony from the OEM team swap or a new hire?
[18:06] <pitti> have fun everyone with karmic syncs and new crack!
[18:06] <rickspencer3> calc: swap
[18:06] <pitti> s/syncs/merges/
[18:06] <calc> ok
[18:06] <rickspencer3> thanks all
[18:06] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[18:06] <pitti> thanks all
[18:06] <bryce> calc: iirc tony is the guitarist in the allhands jam
[18:06] <seb128> thanks all
[18:06] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: good night :)
[18:07] <calc> bryce: ah
[18:07] <calc> thanks
[18:07] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: thanks... soon :)
[18:07] <bryce> thanks all
[18:08] <asac> thx
[18:09]  * calc loves the huge influx of bugs a release causes, heh
[18:09] <bryce> calc: yeah the slope on my curve is steeper than it's ever been
[18:09] <pitti> calc: strange kind of love :)
[18:10] <bryce> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/totals.svg
[18:10] <bryce> looks like a jet taking off
[18:11] <bryce> of course, I've been focusing on like TWO bugs exclusively the past couple weeks, but still...
[18:11] <pitti> everyone's bug mailbox is exploding indeed
[18:11] <pitti> but I think that's mostly due to ever-more people reporting feedback, not necessarily because we get worse
[18:13] <seb128> that's for sure
[18:13] <seb128> desktop bugs are mostly small details
[18:13] <seb128> but there is just of enthousiastic users reporting anything they find
[18:13] <seb128> +lot
[18:14] <calc> bryce: i keep beating mine down but they pop up as quickly as i can squash them
[18:21] <pitti> mvo: still remember why you applied the gconf patch 05_from_vuntz_gconf2-pk-default-path.patch ?
[18:22] <pitti> +    - use xml:merged:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults as default
[18:22] <pitti> +      location for system settings (thanks to vuntz)
[18:22] <seb128> pitti: because that's the right directory to use on debian or ubuntu
[18:22] <pitti> okay
[18:23] <pitti> seb128: but then, why do we carry a patch which adds /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.system/ and adds a change to debian/default.path to include xml:readonly:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.system?
[18:23] <pitti> that directory is empty here
[18:24] <seb128> pitti: that's probably a leftover from the time where we didn't have this patch you just listed
[18:24] <pitti> right, I wondered why we have both, we should drop one
[18:24] <pitti> and it looks to me like we could drop gconf.xml.system
[18:24] <seb128> we need to check when we used the wrong directory
[18:24] <seb128> ie did it make to a stable?
[18:24] <seb128> in which case people might have settings there
[18:25] <pitti> seb128: okay, I'll do that then
[18:25] <pitti> seb128: if I find anything, I keep the default.path addition
[18:25] <pitti> it doesn't really hurt anyway
[18:25] <seb128> right
[18:25] <pitti> seb128: thanks for the heads-up
[18:25] <pitti> well, I'll just keep it
[18:25] <seb128> you're welcome
[18:26] <pitti> +# new system defaults mechanism (deprecated, but we need to keep it
[18:26] <pitti> +# for compatiblity with intrepid (8.10) were this was the default
[18:26] <pitti> +# for the system wide gconf settings (via org.gnome.GConf.Defaults)
[18:26] <pitti> ah
[18:32] <pitti> I'm off for the evening, we meet for preparing a friend's wedding
[18:32] <pitti> see you tomorrow!
[18:33] <bryce> cya pitti
[18:35] <seb128> pitti: have fun, see you tomorrow
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - got any karmic updates for me to do? ;)
[18:59]  * chrisccoulson is liking the thunderstorm outside
[19:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson: hello
[19:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson: yeah, lot of things to do, I need to do a list
[19:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson: do you want to sync gnome-session on debian?
[19:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that
[19:34] <seb128> sync or merge whatever is required
[19:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson: you can look to merge nautilus too if you want
[19:35] <chrisccoulson> i'll take a look at it
[19:36] <calc> i think was are past the saturation point now it hasn't rained in an hour or so and the water level on the street isn't receding :(
[19:36]  * calc hopes it doesn't rain any more
[19:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson: cool, I will try to make a team todolist tomorrow for other updates and work
[19:38] <chrisccoulson> thanks, that would be useful:)
[19:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson: any package which has not been merged with debian yet is a good candidate to clean
[19:39] <seb128> ie we want to send changes upstream or to debian when it makes sense
[19:39] <seb128> and rebase the version on debian
[20:04] <crevette> heya
[20:04] <crevette> hey huats
[20:04] <crevette> hello seb128
[20:04] <seb128> hi crevette
[20:04] <huats> hello crevette
[20:10] <mahendra> hello
[20:10] <mahendra> i need some help
[20:12] <crevette> seb128: I wonder how you do to not get lost in update between upstream one and debian sync
[20:12] <crevette> :)
[20:12] <mahendra> i just upgraded my ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10. but now there is no title bar to any of the windows.
[20:12] <crevette> it's a kind of sport
[20:13] <mahendra> i tried changing themes but its not working
[20:13] <seb128> crevette: you need to know where to look ;-)
[20:13] <seb128> mahendra: try #ubuntu
[20:13] <mahendra> ok
[20:13] <seb128> mahendra: that channel is a work one not an user question one
[20:13] <mahendra> thanks
[20:13] <seb128> mahendra: and I would recommend using 9.04 it's much better than 8.10
[20:14] <crevette> :)
[20:14] <mahendra> i am going to upgrade to 9.04 but i need to solve this problem first
[20:15] <crevette> seb128: sorry for not bein that active
[20:15] <seb128> crevette: no need to be sorry
[20:15] <crevette> I seriously lack some times :/
[20:15] <crevette> bah, I feel totally inefficient :/
[20:16] <seb128> you have enough to do
[20:17] <crevette> I'll try to get some time later to help you for some packaging :)
[20:18] <seb128> cool
[20:18] <seb128> bbl
[20:19] <crevette> that was quick
[20:19] <seb128> yeah just forgot to write something on an another channel
[20:19] <seb128> bbl for now
[20:19] <crevette> see uou
[21:00] <dobey> vuntz: is that intltool fix sufficiently good for you?
[21:40] <calc> ugh my wife and son are stuck in another part of the city and can't get back due to the flooding :\