| NCommander | jbailey, due to the fact I don't ATM have a passport anymore, I won't be able to pick up the space heater anytime from andrew. Probably later in may or early June looks most likely | 00:42 |
|---|---|---|
| NCommander | jbailey, wb | 00:42 |
| === jbailey__ is now known as jbailey | ||
| NCommander | lamont, ping, I need your advice on a HPPA issue w/ the buildds I think. | 19:14 |
| NCommander | lamont, specifically, I think part of the problem with hanging processes (such as kde4libs (and ruby1.9 on Debian)) is the kernel on the buildds and porting box is very old | 19:15 |
| lamont | NCommander: yep | 19:26 |
| lamont | and glibc | 19:26 |
| lamont | never forget glibc | 19:27 |
| NCommander | lamont, what is the possibility of bumping the kernel version on the porter box to see if my theory lives or dies? | 19:27 |
| lamont | basically, nptl/hppa only very recently (as in post-jaunty) got fixed in glibc | 19:27 |
| jbailey | lamont, Isn't the glibc current to the release he's hacking on? | 19:27 |
| * NCommander has been following debian-hppa, and linux-hppa to some extent seeing if there is anything I need to pull into the ports tree | 19:27 | |
| lamont | NCommander: hardy user space. if there's a hardy-backport (ppa or otherwise) that fixes things, I expect we can try - remember that it still has to be able to run a dapper chroot for building dapper bits... | 19:29 |
| NCommander | ugh. and dapper won't die until 2011 | 19:29 |
| jbailey | lamont, Can't we just declare that hppa machines are only workstations and expire it in a couple months? | 19:32 |
| NCommander | lamont, so basically, try to backport a kernel, and backport glibc? | 19:32 |
| * NCommander can't even confirm if the current HPPA kernels boot due to ENOEMULATOR | 19:33 | |
| lamont | jbailey: there is a certain amount of humor to be had there... and actually, ports != LSB unless the ports team says so | 19:33 |
| NCommander | I doubt LSB even has a HPPA variant | 19:33 |
| jbailey | It doesn't. | 19:34 |
| * NCommander is just waiting for the gcc-4.3 regression tests to finish on HPPA | 19:34 | |
| jbailey | It was one of the things I was working on when I decided to stop hacking HPPA | 19:34 |
| NCommander | lamont, I ran the 4.4 ones for infinity and doko, they're fairly happy except in libstdc++v3 which had an unhandled error | 19:34 |
| NCommander | jbailey, why'd you stop hacking on HPPA? | 19:34 |
| jbailey | NCommander, upstream induced apathy. | 19:35 |
| NCommander | kernel, or toolchain/ or glibc? | 19:35 |
| jbailey | I was hacking on all three. | 19:36 |
| jbailey | But kernel. | 19:36 |
| NCommander | Dare I ask? | 19:36 |
| jbailey | Well. | 19:36 |
| jbailey | It's not a very interesting story. | 19:36 |
| jbailey | That's the great part about apathy. =) | 19:36 |
| lamont | lol | 19:36 |
| NCommander | I guess the question is more what caused said apathy | 19:37 |
| lamont | jbailey: you were apathetic before you didn't care, no? | 19:37 |
| NCommander | I thought HP pushes HPPA fairly hard after ia64 sunk. | 19:37 |
| jbailey | lamont, It's hard to tell what order they happened in. | 19:37 |
| jbailey | lamont, It was sort of one last attempt to try and get all the pieces going because it looked like it might finally be possible. | 19:38 |
| jbailey | I actually understood all the pieces finally. =) | 19:38 |
| NCommander | jbailey, do you have any HPPA hardware still? | 19:40 |
| jbailey | NCommander, Nope. | 19:40 |
| NCommander | pity :-/. I would have tried to buy you out. | 19:40 |
| jbailey | I wouldn't have sold it. =) I got all the hardware for free and that's how it left my hands. | 19:41 |
| NCommander | how'd you get free hardware | 19:41 |
| jbailey | Once upon a time, people cared about these ports and would arrange hardware for the willing. | 19:41 |
| NCommander | HP officially axed PA-RISC late last year :-/ | 19:42 |
| jbailey | Makes sense, they stopped R&D on it a while ago. | 19:43 |
| jbailey | I keep wondering when MIPS is going to finally roll over and die. | 19:44 |
| NCommander | MIPS is unlikely to die soon | 19:44 |
| NCommander | There's an Ubuntu/mips port (if you know Chinese) | 19:44 |
| jbailey | Yeah. NAS boxes keep them alive. | 19:46 |
| NCommander | I was actually referring to the MIPSel netbook | 19:46 |
| jbailey | I don't get why those haven't just switched to ARM. I'd have thought it would be cheaper. | 19:46 |
| jbailey | eh, really? | 19:46 |
| jbailey | Neat. | 19:46 |
| jbailey | I didn't know anyone was making new products when them. | 19:46 |
| NCommander | yeah | 19:47 |
| NCommander | mips isn't as expensive as arm | 19:47 |
| NCommander | (I think a few implementations are even open source) | 19:47 |
| NCommander | I dunno, maybe Ubuntu/hppa should be axed now that the architecture is dead upstream (which kinda depresses me; I hate seeing good architectures die) | 19:48 |
| jbailey | Or we should start an Amiga port. | 19:50 |
| jbailey | =) | 19:50 |
| NCommander | Actually | 19:50 |
| NCommander | I did some work towards bootstrapping Ubuntu/m68k ... | 19:50 |
| jbailey | lamont, Whatdyathink? Would elmo run amigas in the DCs? | 19:50 |
| NCommander | for April fools | 19:50 |
| NCommander | glibc has issues. | 19:50 |
| jbailey | Infinity and I talked about that. A coldfire-only port. | 19:50 |
| jbailey | He had some hardware and never got it up and running. | 19:50 |
| NCommander | I looked into that | 19:52 |
| NCommander | I have coldfire hardware myself | 19:52 |
| jbailey | Fun. | 19:52 |
| NCommander | You run into the no NPTL issue again | 19:52 |
| NCommander | (and my CF board has a broken NIC) | 19:52 |
| jbailey | I think at the time I'd offered to do some of the NPTL porting. | 19:52 |
| jbailey | m68k asm isn't that scary. | 19:52 |
| NCommander | jbailey, I'll give you access to my CF if your interested | 19:53 |
| jbailey | I'm old and crochety now. | 19:53 |
| NCommander | I looked into it myself, the problem is the m68k ABI doesn't have the necessary spots to put in the tls info | 19:53 |
| jbailey | Which is to say I have a 2 year old at home. | 19:53 |
| jbailey | You can fake out the tls stuff with pseudo registers like on mips, iirc. | 19:53 |
| NCommander | No, no, you misunderstand | 19:53 |
| NCommander | The ELF/m68k binary format was never extended | 19:54 |
| NCommander | (if I remember debian and linux-m68k right) | 19:54 |
| jbailey | Oh. Hmm. Then IIRC, then you can just use segment references. Slower, but not that big of a deal. | 19:54 |
| jbailey | You're talking years ago since I looked at this. | 19:55 |
| jbailey | Debconf 4? | 19:55 |
| jbailey | When we were looking at abi transitions. | 19:55 |
| jbailey | And sadly my drug cocktail of the last year has left some holes in my memory. | 19:55 |
| jbailey | Although most things are back now. | 19:55 |
| NCommander | Late 2006-2007 | 19:55 |
| NCommander | When I was involved with debian-m68k | 19:55 |
| NCommander | Maybe early 2008 | 19:55 |
| jbailey | Well, I mean doko, gotom, me, and a bunch of porters sat in a room in Brazil and talked about the fact that every Debian arch starting with the letter M was fucked for NPTL. | 19:56 |
| lamont | jbailey: re: amiga --> I'd have to come hurt you. | 19:56 |
| lamont | and if that means smuggling distance weapons into canada, so be it. :-p | 19:56 |
| jbailey | lamont, Hey, it would be good to see you! | 19:56 |
| NCommander | jbailey, mips was fucked for NPTL? | 19:57 |
| jbailey | And Angie would talk you out of it. She's too cute to say no to. =) | 19:57 |
| lamont | jbailey: point. | 19:57 |
| jbailey | NCommander, Yeah. Had the same problem where the ABI hadn't been extended. | 19:57 |
| jbailey | Think 2004. | 19:57 |
| jbailey | long time ago. | 19:57 |
| lamont | and then there are those pictures from that thing that time | 19:57 |
| jbailey | MIPS Inc was still figuring it out. | 19:57 |
| NCommander | From what I gather, implementing NPTL isn't that difficult, once you extend the ABI | 19:57 |
| === fabbione is now known as fabbione-vac | ||
| NCommander | Basically you need to get binutils to use the new fields, support the necessary relocations, get glibc and gcc to handle them, and implement the kernel helpers | 19:58 |
| NCommander | That being said, Freescale has said repeatively to except m68k/TLS sometime soon | 19:58 |
| jbailey | fabbione-vac, Vac? | 19:58 |
| jbailey | fabbione-vac, You using a vacuum pump again? | 19:58 |
| NCommander | (the toolchain exists with patches, I forgot what the hold up was) | 19:58 |
| fabbione-vac | jbailey: that's the idea... | 19:58 |
| jbailey | fabbione-vac, It's not worth it. | 19:58 |
| fabbione-vac | ahha | 19:59 |
| jbailey | err. | 19:59 |
| jbailey | not | 19:59 |
| jbailey | that | 19:59 |
| jbailey | I would | 19:59 |
| jbailey | know... | 19:59 |
| fabbione-vac | yeah right | 19:59 |
| fabbione-vac | ;) | 19:59 |
| fabbione-vac | time for 3 days of full vacation | 19:59 |
| fabbione-vac | that means I am going be so looking forward to go back to work and relax... | 19:59 |
| jbailey | fabbione-vac, I promise not to tell your wife! | 19:59 |
| fabbione-vac | ahha done deal ;) | 19:59 |
| jbailey | fabbione-vac, Enjoy =) | 19:59 |
| fabbione-vac | thanks | 19:59 |
| * NCommander wonders if we'll see another port of Ubuntu in the not so distant future | 20:03 | |
| jbailey | Because the previous ones have worked so well? =) | 20:04 |
| NCommander | jbailey, ARM and powerpc work quite well | 20:04 |
| NCommander | SPARC works ok-ish if your not bitten by the SILO sucks bug | 20:04 |
| jbailey | The PPC I was sad to get rid of. | 20:05 |
| NCommander | jbailey, why? | 20:05 |
| jbailey | Because it was a quad-core G5. =) | 20:05 |
| * NCommander notes that PowerPC is still not a dead architecture (thanks IBM!) | 20:05 | |
| NCommander | jbailey, ack, why'd you toss it? | 20:05 |
| jbailey | Wasn't going to be working on it anymore. | 20:05 |
| jbailey | So I gave it to a kernel dev who said he'd give it love. | 20:06 |
| NCommander | ;.;, I have one old PowerMac G4 which I use as a router | 20:06 |
| * NCommander still wants to get the space heater, but ATM thats impossible | 20:06 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!