[00:02] <nhandler> I may or may not be at the meeting this weekend. Is it ok if I add an item to the agenda to be discussed?
[00:55] <Kangarooo> hello.. could ubuntu loco teams template made more  info?
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> hi Kangarooo
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> what exactly are you talking about? do you have a link?
[08:02] <mdke> nhandler: yes, absolutely
[14:04] <KelvinGardiner> Hi, what is the correct way to reference a menu item such as File -> new in a wiki page, using → or -> ?
[14:32] <LjL> in a minute i'm reverting the latest 3 changes to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat?action=diff&rev1=331&rev2=334 - as i don't really think it's appropriate to put such a prominent notice on how to report bugs on an unrelated help page. besides, i really suspect the source of user confusion was not that page but https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pidgin (which also had that notice added, but which is probably ill-convceived in my opinion)
[16:02] <bencrisford> I'm a little confused about adding images to the community documentation wiki
[16:02] <bencrisford> how would I go about doing it?
[16:25] <jpds> I'm not sure, but you should be able to add it vi Attachments and then {{image.png}} on the page.
[16:26] <bencrisford> ok, i didnt find an attatchments bar :-/
[16:26] <bencrisford> would i be able to do {{http://www.picture.com/picture.jpg}}?
[16:36] <jpds> bencrisford: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation?action=AttachFile for example.
[16:37] <jpds> You have to click: "Show editing options".
[16:43] <bencrisford> ooo...  thanks :)
[21:34] <mdke> DougieRichardson: is your playbook on the wiki already? If not, could you upload it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation and link it from the "Getting Started" section?
[21:38] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I just changed the page with a link to it on my site, I've got it in a bzr branch on LP - can we integrate it into the teams docs? I'd like to keep it centralised to the team so only one copy needs maintained
[21:40] <mdke> DougieRichardson: the wiki is the right place for it really - we can then maintain the copy that is there
[21:40] <mdke> DougieRichardson: I think it's better to have it on the Ubuntu wiki rather than your site, no?
[21:41] <mdke> DougieRichardson: how is the document created, by the way?
[21:41] <DougieRichardson> mdke: you misunderstand me - I'm not bothered about keeping it on my site but it and the ODF its generated from as well as associated images is in a BZR brancg already
[21:41] <mdke> ok, I see
[21:42] <mdke> I think ideally we could keep the odf in a bzr branch, and the published pdf on the wiki
[21:42] <mdke> do you agree?
[21:43] <DougieRichardson> yes entirely happy with that - can we not link directly from the wiki to the copy of the PDF on LP?
[21:45] <DougieRichardson> man the openweek session that's running at the moment has totally dropped into chaos
[21:47] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I've changed it to a link to the copy on LP
[21:49] <mdke> ok, I don't know if that link changes or not, let's give it a go for now
[21:49] <philip_> how do you guys deal with copyrights and credits? for example, this pdf contains dougie's name... is it common here to do such things?
[21:50] <DougieRichardson> philip_:mdke knows a _bit_ about law, lol
[21:51] <philip_> i'm used to using vcs history as the credits and no inserting author names into the documents themselves
[21:52] <philip_> but am not sure what's best, like maybe this decreases peoples motivations to contribute
[21:53] <philip_> so sorry DougieRichardson for picking on you, but it's easy for an outsider to do :)
[21:54] <DougieRichardson> philip_: in the system documentation, we link to the contributers page where everyone's name is.
[21:54] <DougieRichardson> this being a new idea and me having written it and (without blowing my own trumpet) being a highly vocal entity on the Planet and other places I'm happy to be the POC for this new initiative.
[21:55] <philip_> okay, so i'm looking at: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/internet/C/disconnecting-wireless.html
[21:55] <DougieRichardson> This is something that if sucessful, should be under the doc teams control
[21:55] <DougieRichardson> philip_:I wrote that, lol
[21:55] <philip_> is "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam" the link you refer to?
[21:55] <philip_> i see no author names or links to commit history
[21:56] <mdke> we tend to use "Ubuntu Documentation Team" as the author details for documents
[21:56] <philip_> oh, it does link to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
[21:56] <mdke> in due course if the playbook is contributed to by other members, I'd like to see that there as well, although obviously it's up to Dougie
[21:56] <DougieRichardson> philip_: No there's a seperate section
[21:57] <mdke> in theory copyright in documentation belongs to each person who contributes
[21:57] <DougieRichardson> mdke: its cc so i'm cool
[21:57] <mdke> philip_: this is what we do with docs - https://help.ubuntu.com/legal.html
[21:58] <philip_> ah
[21:58] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I propose with the playbooks, once we've settled in to them to move them to the team and change the author to the team
[21:58] <philip_> it's a tough topic, something that's been on my mind for about 7 years
[21:59] <mdke> DougieRichardson: yes, it would be good to have the bzr branch under the ~ubuntu-core-doc team
[22:00] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I'm happy with that, I'd like to be POC for it at present if no one has any objections
[22:00] <mdke> DougieRichardson: what's meant by POC? Personally I like people always to go to the mailing list for contacting anything about the team
[22:00] <DougieRichardson> point of contact
[22:01] <mdke> that way if someone isn't around, someone else can answer
[22:01] <mdke> I know what it stands for :)
[22:01] <DougieRichardson> i know
[22:01] <philip_> i didn't and was looking it up :)
[22:01] <bencrisford> same :), but im looking up playbook as well?  what is it :S?
[22:02] <mdke> I mean, what do you have in mind in terms of contact - off-list contact?
[22:02] <DougieRichardson> I think that's valid but not until after this weekend's meeting where we have defined and agreed what direction to take with them
[22:02] <philip_> they seem like quick guides to me
[22:03] <philip_> bencrisford: i think playbook is a term relating to a book of plays, like a sports team might have... specific plays to perform specific tasks on a specific topic
[22:03] <DougieRichardson> philip_: they are but its part of a bigger push to make contribution as easy as we can
[22:03] <mdke> DougieRichardson: ok... although i don't think anyone can say that it's not a good idea to produce those quick guides - certainly no one has objected on the list
[22:03] <bencrisford> hmm, cool :)
[22:04] <philip_> someone asked how to check out something from bzr recently... i am new to bzr so don't feel comfortable but that wiki page should include examples
[22:05] <bencrisford> is bzr like svn?
[22:05] <DougieRichardson> mdke: not off list
[22:05] <philip_> this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository
[22:05] <bencrisford> ah nice :)
[22:05] <philip_> should include copy-n-paste examples for ubuntu-docs
[22:06] <philip_> currently it assumes we know that bzr magically knows about the ubuntu domain, and that we know what branches are
[22:06] <bencrisford> ah it looks alot like svn
[22:06] <bencrisford> which im familiar with
[22:07] <philip_> a little different, but yeah... it's a version control system (although distributed instead of centralized like svn is)
[22:07] <bencrisford> ah ok
[22:07] <bencrisford> im really eager to get involved with the documentation now :D
[22:08] <bencrisford> i have been sitting on the fence for a while, but after docs day i have been inspired :)
[22:08] <philip_> see if you can figure out how to check it out :)
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> actually, I have a sheet for Bazaar available
[22:08] <bencrisford> :)
[22:08] <bencrisford> a pdf sheet?
[22:09] <philip_> a cheat sheet / quick guide i reckon
[22:09] <bencrisford> cool =]
[22:09] <DougieRichardson> yes a single a4 sheet
[22:09] <bencrisford> nice, is it available for download at all?
[22:10] <philip_> with all these different guides and howtos, just promise to now allow some to get out of date ;)
[22:10] <philip_> s/now/not
[22:10] <DougieRichardson> http://www.lynxworks.eu/files/BazaarPlaybook.pdf
[22:11] <bencrisford> great :D, thanks
[22:11] <philip_> this assumes we know what an ADDRESS is
[22:11] <philip_> bzr newbies have no clue
[22:12] <philip_> branches too
[22:12] <bencrisford> which is why this channel is here
[22:12] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I'll change the attribution to doc team at some point over the weekend, can we merge my branch into the teams?
[22:12] <mdke> DougieRichardson: you can just change the branch owner in Launchpad
[22:12] <DougieRichardson> mdke: OK
[22:13] <bencrisford> is CIA-18 a bzr bot?
[22:13] <mdke> bencrisford: it can be, but we don't use it at the moment
[22:13] <bencrisford> oh :), i was just wondering
[22:13] <bencrisford> because we have a CIA-12
[22:13] <bencrisford> which does svn
[22:14] <mdke> yeah, CIA does almost everything
[22:14] <bencrisford> by we i mean spux project
[22:14] <bencrisford> #spux (freenode)
[22:14] <philip_> one nice thing about github is clicking a button gives you a CIA bot automagically
[22:17] <mdke> we can't really use CIA effectively because we can't install it on LP
[22:17] <mdke> although if every team member used it, it would work
[22:17] <mdke> the ubuntu installer team does that
[22:20] <mdke> philip_: I'll add some example commands to the Repository page
[22:21] <philip_> cool
[22:21] <bencrisford> mdke: what do i have to do to start contributing sysdocs?
[22:22] <bencrisford> do i just submit some patches on LP or what?
[22:22] <philip_> pretty sure that is addressed in the guide
[22:22] <DougieRichardson> mdke: what happened with being able to set bug importance?
[22:23] <philip_> bencrisford: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/ has words, then links to "Submitting"
[22:23] <bencrisford> oh cool, thank you
[22:23] <bencrisford> :)
[22:24] <philip_> btw, last month i blogged about the greatness behind the ubuntu "get involved" page so in case you're interested:
[22:24] <philip_> http://blog.roshambo.org/archives/Learning-how-to-help-people-contribute-to-the-PHP.net-Project.html
[22:24] <philip_> basically, i love the ubuntu get involved howto specifically for the docs
[22:24] <bencrisford> nice =]
[22:25] <bencrisford> i have been doing the documentation for spux project, which is a ventrilo client for linux
[22:25] <bencrisford> im loving learning all the docbook :)
[22:25] <bencrisford> brb - bath
[22:26] <philip_> and plan to steal ideas from the ubuntu guide while working on: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Teaching_Get_Involved
[22:26] <philip_> so anyway, enough rambling, i'll let everyone get back to work :)
[22:33] <bencrisford1> my internet :'(
[22:34] <bencrisford1> i upgraded to jaunty and suddenly my internet doesnt work properly, and my display drivers are broke
[22:34] <bencrisford1> not to mention the general performance
[22:40] <mdke> DougieRichardson: I've been going back and forth a bit with the bug guy about it, the bottom line is that people are likely to have to apply to the bug control team in the usual way in order to set bug importance - although i'm trying to convince him to accept a "fast-tracked" procedure
[22:41] <DougieRichardson> mdke:cool, i don't understand why the project driver can't set it within their own packages
[22:42] <bencrisford1> i applied to the bug control team like ages ago, i forgot all about returning my application :S
[22:42] <bencrisford1> gosh im so forgettful at times
[22:42] <nhandler> mdke: Would they be willing to make the core-doc team a subteam of bug control?
[22:43] <nhandler> I know that they do that for MOTU
[22:43] <bencrisford1> night
[22:48] <mdke> nhandler: I don't think so - unles the core-doc team guarantees to apply their requirements for membership
[22:48] <mdke> DougieRichardson: they are a bit careful about it because members can see private apport bugs which may contain sensitive data
[22:49] <nhandler> Yeah, I forgot about that privilege mdke. I guess it is best if they apply separately to the bugcontrol team
[22:52] <DougieRichardson> Fair enough
[22:57] <mdke> right, let's get an upload to karmic on the board
[22:57] <nhandler> mdke: You haven't done a karmic upload yet? What's taking you so long ;)
[22:58] <Rocket2DMn> lol nhandler , nothing has really changed yet, why upload new docs?
[22:58] <mdke> nhandler: I should have uploaded last weekend
[22:59] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: lots of bugs fixed in this upload, mostly by your good self
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> :)
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> i need to start learning how to use bzr
[23:00] <Rocket2DMn> guess i should figure out how to check out my own branch and keep it in sync with the main one
[23:00] <mdke> your patches have been great so far
[23:00] <mdke> haven't you used bzr for them?
[23:00] <Rocket2DMn> well, i kept a local copy of the main branches with bzr
[23:00] <Rocket2DMn> for instance, some users have branches here - https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc
[23:01] <mdke> ah, that's very much optional
[23:01] <mdke> it's for pushing specific fixes and making a merge request
[23:01] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i figured, it would be a good learning exercise though
[23:01] <mdke> it's kinda an alternative to posting patches
[23:02] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well, i'll figure it out at a later time, i need to go make dinner
[23:03] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I would be glad to show you if you want
[23:03] <Rocket2DMn> thanks nhandler , perhaps later this evening
[23:04] <nhandler> Sure thing ;)
[23:06] <mdke> awesome
[23:06] <mdke> Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed: 209530 219972 257337 274845 352313 355008 356933 357344 359288 363552
[23:09] <mdke> 10 bugs fixed in the first week of karmic
[23:39] <mdke> philip_: I've played with the Repository page a bit, ee if that helps
[23:40] <mdke> damn this keyboard
[23:40] <mdke> this laptop is getting prehistoric